Latest / Sharp Strategies Sweet Success / #56 - How to Master LinkedIn: Specificity, Hooks, and High-Quality Referrals with Tony Albrecht

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#56 - How to Master LinkedIn: Specificity, Hooks, and High-Quality Referrals with Tony Albrecht · Sharp Strategies Sweet Success

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: The goal with your hook is to get somebody to press see more, right?
• 0:03
  It's that largely LinkedIn spreads posts based on like dwell
• 0:10
  time on the amount of
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: time that somebody spends on it.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: So getting folks to at least click,
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: that means that you're at least going to get another couple seconds.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sharp Strategies, Sweet Success.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone and welcome.
• 0:35
  This is your host,
• 0:36
  Tiffany Swedensky,
• 0:37
  and you're listening to Sharp Strategies,
• 0:39
  Sweet Success.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Today I am talking with Tony Albrecht of Contender.
• 0:45
  I've known Tony,
• 0:46
  I don't think we met in person,
• 0:48
  but I've known him on LinkedIn for a long time.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: He also works with and talks to attorneys.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: He's an attorney himself.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Although I think this is pretty much all you're doing right now.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: For the last almost three years, it's, it's been my full-time deal.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just gonna,
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: we're gonna talk to Tony today about social media,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: marketing,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: marketing,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: referral marketing,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: wherever the conversation goes.
• 1:10
  I'm really excited to have him as a guest and I'll let him
• 1:14
  finish up and tell us a
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: little bit about himself.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the invitation, Tiffany.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: I describe myself not as a marketer,
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: but as a lawyer who accidentally got good at LinkedIn,
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  SPEAKER_01: where I'm from St.
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  SPEAKER_01: Louis.
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  I practice law out of Missouri,
• 1:31
  Illinois,
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  and for a very brief time early in my career,
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: on the island of Guam.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I've taken and passed all three of those bar exams.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm coming to you today from the town of Bracebridge,
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  SPEAKER_01: Ontario,
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  SPEAKER_01: about an hour and a half north of Toronto,
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  where my wife and I have been living with our two little kiddos
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  since the spring of
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  SPEAKER_01: 2021,
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  SPEAKER_01: when we made the decision to move from my hometown,
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: St.
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  SPEAKER_01: Louis,
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  SPEAKER_01: Up here, my wife was ready to be back in Canada, closer to her family.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, the decision was, do we stay in St.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Louis?
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  And I make partner at the firm I was at doing insurance defense
• 2:18
  litigation,
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  or...
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do we move to Canada?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: We chose to do that.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: This was still not the plan.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Tiffany,
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  SPEAKER_01: you and I have touched on this in previous conversations,
• 2:31
  but I like just about every lawyer ignored the LinkedIn
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  platform more or less
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  SPEAKER_01: through 12 years of practice.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it was only after making the decision to leave the practice
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  A buddy and I hatched a plan for me to join his consulting
• 2:49
  company in a business
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: development role.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when I left the practice, he said, you need to learn LinkedIn.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I started paying attention.
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  I basically took Justin Welsh's operating system course,
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  which was huge back then.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it just, it opened up the platform.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: for me in a new way that kind of helped me gain traction.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then I noticed that a lot of lawyers were seeing what I was doing,
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  SPEAKER_01: even though I was no longer practicing.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just writing about creativity for the most part.
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  SPEAKER_01: People started asking if I could help them gain traction on LinkedIn.
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  SPEAKER_01: I saw that that was pretty straightforward.
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  SPEAKER_01: Then I had a buddy named Evan Chasteen out of Alpharetta,
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  SPEAKER_01: Georgia,
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  SPEAKER_01: who ran a digital marketing agency.
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  SPEAKER_01: And in the summer of 22,
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  he asked if I'd be interested in writing for a ghostwriting
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  client that he had,
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  SPEAKER_01: a roofer.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I said, no, man, I'm 40 years old.
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  SPEAKER_01: I have a wife and two kids.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to write other people's social media posts.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then he told me how much that contract was for.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I said, OK, dude, yes, I am 40 years old.
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  SPEAKER_01: I have a wife and two small children.
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  SPEAKER_01: I will try writing other people's LinkedIn posts.
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  And it was a situation where that roofer had been posting
• 4:10
  basically every week for
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  SPEAKER_01: a year,
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  SPEAKER_01: and his best post had gone to about 1,800 impressions.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the first one I wrote for him broke 25,000.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so it was like, that was, I...
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  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, well, that's interesting.
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  SPEAKER_01: I did not expect that at all.
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  And that was the point where I'd had one friend in particular
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  been in my ear
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  SPEAKER_01: saying,
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  SPEAKER_01: you should think about doing this for lawyers.
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  SPEAKER_01: You should think about doing this for lawyers.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that was the point where I was like, okay, I'll try.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that was when I started sending messages to folks from my network.
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  SPEAKER_01: One trial lawyer out of
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  SPEAKER_01: out of St.
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  SPEAKER_01: Louis, who I'd known since high school, was the first person to say yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: That was... I started working with him in October of 22.
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  SPEAKER_01: The rest is history, Tiffany.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the five-minute version of the story.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's really cool.
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  SPEAKER_00: So,
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  I guess we started doing our own kind of small business thing
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  at the same time,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is super neat.
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  SPEAKER_00: So, I've been thinking a lot about this because, like, you know, it's...
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  SPEAKER_00: Not too many people are talking about like just writing,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: what it's like to write and what it means to write something good,
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  SPEAKER_00: because ChatGPT and all that good stuff.
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  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about like kind of the early days.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like how long were you taking on each post?
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  SPEAKER_00: Was it something like you just,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: not to diminish it,
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  SPEAKER_00: but you just farted out and you just have that touch?
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  SPEAKER_00: Or do you like have to spend like time kind of crafting the message?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like how do you get there?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love that question.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that, yes, most things I fart out.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's actually an accurate way to phrase it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I would say that at this point,
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: we're working with,
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: we're writing for about 20 different leaders.
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  We do rely on our GPTs,
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  our robot friends,
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  to do a lot of the initial drafting.
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  SPEAKER_01: That said, we still hold back
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: a certain amount of work that we still do the old fashioned way.
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  And when it comes to my stuff,
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  I still do it just about everything the old fashioned way.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't actually use GPT very much at all, probably to my detriment.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: I probably should be using it more for my own stuff.
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  But so to answer your question,
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  typically a post is going to take about a half hour.
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  SPEAKER_01: That can range.
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  But if it's the sort of post that's going to be between 200 and
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  400 words,
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  SPEAKER_01: It's going to take upwards of a half hour to get it really dialed in.
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  And we've never made a whole lot of progress in terms of how
• 7:03
  you make that faster.
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  SPEAKER_01: What we found is that the GPTs are getting pretty good.
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  And we've got ours pretty well trained to be able to write in
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  our style and in clients' voices.
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  SPEAKER_01: Where on a good day,
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  SPEAKER_01: Our human interaction with a given post is less than 15 minutes,
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  SPEAKER_01: but we're still spending a fair amount of time.
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  Whether it's changing the language or just rearranging things,
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  we spend a lot of time on hooks.
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  Hooks remain important when it comes to whether or not a
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  LinkedIn post is going to move.
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  SPEAKER_01: I would say there's a lot of upside to spending time with the hooks,
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  SPEAKER_01: even if we're using GPT for the drafting.
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  SPEAKER_01: Found that GPT is not awesome at writing LinkedIn hooks yet.
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  SPEAKER_01: We still haven't totally cracked that code.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
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  and I have to agree because I use ChatGPT a lot for my own
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  stuff and then some
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  SPEAKER_00: other people's stuff.
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  Like you,
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  I have some like GPTs trained in clients' voices for a
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  particular task.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  that's usually good if you can like narrow it down to like this
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  person's voice on
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  SPEAKER_00: this platform,
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  SPEAKER_00: like YouTube descriptions or something like that.
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  But,
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  you know,
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  the time to write,
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  writing is time-consuming,
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  even with ChowchieBT.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: ChowchieBT streams land a little bit,
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  SPEAKER_00: but you're still,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: having to rewrite and craft that perfect hook.
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  SPEAKER_00: The other day, which I...
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  I talk about it a lot and I hope I don't start letting it leak
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  into the podcast,
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  SPEAKER_00: but,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  I've started my own Substack and I started writing more long
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  form articles there
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  SPEAKER_00: just because I like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the long form pieces and it's honestly kind of therapeutic for me.
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  But,
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  you know,
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  I'm usually writing that during my off time,
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  like when I'm not,
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  you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: working for my company,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: at nights or on the weekends,
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  SPEAKER_00: partially because I enjoy it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it'll take me two hours to write,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: an article that's,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: 1,500,
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  SPEAKER_00: 200 words.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: that kind of time,
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  SPEAKER_00: that's the kind of time it takes to,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: and I hope my articles are good,
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: but that's the time it takes to,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: write something that's good,
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  SPEAKER_00: that gets noticed.
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  And I think like just generally people who don't write or
• 9:34
  people who aren't
• 9:34
  familiar with the process or maybe haven't had to do creative
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  writing kind of
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  SPEAKER_00: undervalue how much time it takes.
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  And so you think LinkedIn posts,
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  you should take,
• 9:43
  you know,
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  10 minutes,
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  15 minutes.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, maybe it depends on what you're trying to say.
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  SPEAKER_00: And if ChatGVT gets you close enough and then,
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  SPEAKER_00: like you said,
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  SPEAKER_00: writing a good hook,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm still trying to figure that out if I'm being honest.
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  SPEAKER_00: Hooks are difficult.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's, it's a tricky business.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I, I appreciate what you're saying there.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm,
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  SPEAKER_01: I've been thinking I need to spend,
• 10:10
  I need to spend more time getting back into more long form
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  writing that it's,
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  SPEAKER_01: um,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think I,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: have you seen the trial lawyer's journal that,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
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  SPEAKER_01: It's like,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think the third edition is coming out soon,
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: but it's,
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: it's like this,
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: it's a nice,
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: like Chad Sands runs it.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: He's the CMO of a tech company and they put out this, it's really lovely.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like they, they do it properly.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's well designed.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautifully bound.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote an article about the Mike Morse firm and kind of,
• 10:52
  I think the title is something like the magic trick that is the
• 10:55
  Mike Morse law
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: firm.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was about 1600 words.
• 10:59
  And it was like the most fun that I've had writing of anything
• 11:05
  I've written in the
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: last two years.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was struck by that.
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  SPEAKER_01: I didn't necessarily expect that to be the case,
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: but as I was doing it and once I was done,
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  SPEAKER_01: I was really happy with the product.
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  And also one of the main takeaways for me was GPT couldn't have
• 11:28
  touched that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that I produced there
• 11:34
  uh the way that our brains make connections and the way that
• 11:40
  our thinking through a
• 11:41
  subject like in the level of detail we have to to be able to
• 11:45
  write something like
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: what you're describing
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's still different than what,
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:53
  if you can ask GPT to give you a 2000 word piece and it will do
• 11:59
  it in 20 seconds,
• 12:01
  but it's not going to be able to make the connections that you
• 12:06
  can make or that I
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: can make.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And my theory I've been playing around with
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: is that I think for where we're going,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: human right,
• 12:18
  I think it's gonna become a situation where really good human
• 12:20
  writing actually is
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: more valuable than it's ever been.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be that like short head long tail sort of thing,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: where it's like,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: if you're really good
• 12:31
  you will be able to make a very good living as a good old
• 12:35
  fashioned writer.
• 12:37
  Also what it could see writing is almost becoming like
• 12:44
  performance art where
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Say like people show up and who knows,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: maybe this is like a 25 year old,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: 25 year in the future dystopian situation,
• 12:56
  but it's like people paying to go watch somebody write
• 13:00
  something beautiful in real
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: time.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I could see that being a thing, but I may be digressing.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's I mean, these podcasts go where they go.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly,
• 13:09
  I'm just kind of happy when we're not talking about AI the
• 13:12
  whole time because I'm
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: guilty of that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of are.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: really,
• 13:16
  we're talking about writing and somebody way more famous and
• 13:20
  way more experienced
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: than me.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know who said it, but somebody said writing is thinking.
• 13:27
  Yeah,
• 13:28
  at some point,
• 13:28
  maybe I'll have to Google that later and see who the original
• 13:31
  quote was.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And in some of the more long form pieces I've created,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: because I'm writing about legal marketing,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm writing about usually stuff that we're doing.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny how like,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: you spend two hours,
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I spent two hours like writing an article about lead attribution.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And as I'm writing some words, I make the connection.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, shit, you know.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: that's the problem.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I go into lead docket and figure something out and it's like,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: and discover something,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:01
  in the processes of what we're doing for our clients through
• 14:03
  the activity of
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: writing and just getting my thoughts onto a page and kind of making those
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: interesting connections.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: People have talked about what we lose when writing becomes too easy.
• 14:17
  Because back in the day,
• 14:19
  it was just impressive if you could write consistently.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was just impressive if you could write a newsletter once a month,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: once a week,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: post on LinkedIn once a month,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: once a week.
• 14:29
  You almost didn't have to be too special because it wasn't so
• 14:33
  easy to write,
• 14:34
  basically.
• 14:35
  but now the bar has been raised everyone can write and now like
• 14:40
  we're looking at
• 14:42
  what's good and what's bad and so honestly i think it's kind of
• 14:46
  enabled us to be a
• 14:47
  little bit more critical about the content we're consuming
• 14:49
  instead of just like oh
• 14:50
  this blog somebody wrote you know they wrote it so it must be
• 14:53
  authoritative or
• 14:54
  something like that um so it's it's interesting and i i do love
• 14:58
  right i i do have
• 14:59
  some linkedin questions that i probably should get to before we
• 15:02
  get too far down
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: this rabbit hole
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: so,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 15:07
  as far as hooks go and you don't have to spill all your secrets
• 15:11
  here if you don't
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: want to,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: obviously,
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: but like,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: what are like,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: give me some guidance,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: like give me some guidance on how to make a good hook.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I feel like I get too in my own head about it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, like sometimes my best hooks are like, that was an accident.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to, I didn't think that would work as well as it did.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I, I don't know if you can offer any help or suggestions.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: so,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'll lead this off with a humbling story,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: which is a friend of mine,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: some have helped out a little bit.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: His name's Derek Whitty.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's been a fractional GC in tech out of Arizona.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And Derek sent me a post.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, what do you think about this one?
• 15:53
  And I took a look at it,
• 15:55
  took a pass at it,
• 15:56
  changed some things,
• 15:57
  changed this hurry.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: His hook was something to the effect of, I got splashed with...
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: a big like dose of Gatorade, a Haterade the other day.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's something like a Haterade was in there.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's stupid.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I like basically just axed that hook.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I sent it to him.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, oh, I just posted it eight minutes ago.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Should I take it back?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 16:25
  I looked at it and like already this post had like 11 reactions
• 16:30
  in eight minutes or
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: something.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, you should see what happens.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sure enough, it's his best post ever.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: It went super viral,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: which is to say,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that it does if he had used the hook that I,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: in all my wisdom,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: recommended.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're all just experimenting.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're all just learning.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Here are a few things that I have learned about hooks.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I'll give y'all is what I call the hook trick.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: The hook trick is one where I think to your,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: maybe speaks to your point about getting in your head,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Tiffany,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: is when we start,
• 17:15
  we have a tendency to want to sort of like summarize what the
• 17:19
  post is about in some
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: way.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the hook trick is try,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: and I do this on just about every post that I will write,
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: is try popping off the hook.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Try popping.
• 17:35
  just pulling off the first two sentences and seeing what you've
• 17:38
  got there.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And in a lot of situations,
• 17:42
  what's left when you pop that off is a better hook than what
• 17:47
  you had as the hook is
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: typically,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: it means that you're getting into,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: we try to like summarize and like set up what we're about to get into.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And like,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Ain't nobody got time for that.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to say, as the kids say, kids don't say that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Old people like me say that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like getting right into the story,
• 18:08
  getting right into the meat of what you're talking about tends
• 18:11
  to be a better hook.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in those situations where that is true,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: you can a lot of times take those first two lines,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: drop them down to the bottom,
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: and they serve as actually a pretty nice summary.
• 18:25
  of the post in a way that what you had as the hook actually
• 18:29
  serves better as more
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: of what I would call your dismount,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: the end.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So there's one simple
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Tip,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think of what we wanna do with hooks is,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: the goal with your hook is to get somebody to press see more,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's that largely LinkedIn spreads posts based on like dwell time,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: on the amount of time that somebody spends on it,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 18:55
  So getting folks to at least click that means that you're at
• 18:59
  least gonna get
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: another couple seconds.
• 19:02
  um where it's interesting enough that they're gonna press that
• 19:05
  button and and join
• 19:07
  you further down the post and so i think about wanting hooks to
• 19:14
  be two things
• 19:15
  number one specific and number two evocative so by evocative i
• 19:21
  mean that you are
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: building up some kind of a suspense or you're
• 19:27
  uh inspiring some feeling that whether that's curiosity or
• 19:33
  maybe you're poking some
• 19:34
  in a way that irritates them a little bit there's like some
• 19:39
  you're evoking a
• 19:41
  feeling that makes somebody want to go or that most things of
• 19:46
  the easiest example
• 19:48
  of like building suspense is like well i was going to use one
• 19:51
  example but i'll use
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: a different one that's maybe not quite as suspenseful but that
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: one of the general hooks that works is like,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: here are this eight things I've learned from when I was living in,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Antarctica as a polar bear herder,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: like that sort of thing.
• 20:07
  So it's like,
• 20:08
  Ooh,
• 20:09
  so we've got some specific detail there and that's like eight
• 20:11
  lessons.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: What are those lessons?
• 20:13
  So I'll click see more because we are human beings and we are
• 20:16
  prone to really like lists.
• 20:18
  So just like that suspense of like,
• 20:20
  how do I get it to the point where at that,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: The end of those first two lines that make up the hook,
• 20:28
  you've left somebody hanging in a way that the only way they
• 20:31
  can close that loop is
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: to click see more and keep going.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean by specific is including details.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we found that numbers work really well.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Proper nouns work well.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 20:48
  just the more specific you can be that to start painting a
• 20:52
  picture of what we're
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: talking about,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: the better off you're going to be.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it speaks to a larger challenge that we have.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this is one that I, why I'm, I'm not, uh, closing up shop.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: thinking AI is putting me out of business yet.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Chad GPT still kind of sucks at this.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that with,
• 21:16
  particularly with my coaching clients that we talk about a lot
• 21:20
  is they'll give me a
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: draft and I need a shorthand for this.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we could workshop the shorthand,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: but it's if I can copy,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: paste and post what you just gave me,
• 21:34
  and people would not be able to tell that it was yours,
• 21:36
  not mine,
• 21:37
  you have a serious problem.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Your post sucks.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Basically,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: a post that does not have enough detail,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: that it is specific to you and your experience,
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: it's not going to work.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that what you talked about,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Tiffany,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: about where writing is suddenly easy,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: where now,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: to your point,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: when I started doing this,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've been writing stuff on LinkedIn from 2022 or before.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like you've been doing it for a minute too.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Back then writing the post was the hard part.
• 22:16
  And so somebody who wrote a lot of posts,
• 22:18
  there was a correlation between quantity and quality.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: That correlation no longer exists.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Quantity is no longer an indicator of quality.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And actually,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: it seems like it may be an inverse relationship,
• 22:33
  that more quantity doesn't indicate that you have gained enough
• 22:37
  expertise that you
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: can talk about this stuff all day long.
• 22:40
  It probably just means that you're having robots write a bunch
• 22:43
  of shit,
• 22:44
  right?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not good.
• 22:47
  So in that environment,
• 22:48
  and this is why I encourage more and more people to actually
• 22:52
  post less.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: that, you know, and I thought we both know Tim Semeroth.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's got, I've been able to support in a coaching, um,
• 23:03
  capacity for a number of months and he's been doing a great job
• 23:07
  of like posting
• 23:07
  Monday through Friday for the better part of 18 months and I
• 23:12
  talked him into about
• 23:14
  two months now uh ago say like what if you tried posting twice
• 23:20
  a week and you're
• 23:21
  pulling out the sort of stuff like he had like a he would post
• 23:25
  a joke on Fridays
• 23:26
  like that sort of thing like set pieces nothing wrong with
• 23:29
  those put those on the
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: front page
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Don't put those on your personal page.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like that stuff, keep that stuff on firm pages.
• 23:38
  But the things that Tim,
• 23:41
  I was saying,
• 23:41
  keep on your personal page are your stories.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's a great lawyer.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's a great guy.
• 23:48
  He has so much to offer in terms of his understanding of how to
• 23:53
  practice law,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: how to lead people,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: how to be a decent person.
• 23:58
  lead with that and see what happens and it's been good to see
• 24:01
  that his his like two
• 24:03
  best posts ever have now when when i gave him that advice it
• 24:06
  was there was like a
• 24:07
  month there where i was like i wonder if that was good advice
• 24:10
  but like he's now in
• 24:12
  the last two weeks he's basically had like his his biggest post
• 24:15
  ever and i think it
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: was as a product of again that quality over quantity
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: that it's like getting specific and like knowing who you're talking to.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I went down a rabbit hole about posting in general.
• 24:31
  You got me on a soapbox when we were talking about how to write
• 24:34
  good hooks.
• 24:34
  So I just answered hopefully like two or three other questions
• 24:37
  in that ramble,
• 24:38
  Tiffany.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, and it wasn't a ramble.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: we personally like,
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I do post every day,
• 24:45
  sometimes twice a day because what I do is I schedule out posts
• 24:49
  in advance.
• 24:49
  Like I try to sit down,
• 24:51
  block off some time and get like 15 done in one sitting.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I record a lot of content.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I make a lot of content about marketing.
• 24:59
  It's getting easier to pick out like specific things to talk
• 25:03
  about on LinkedIn.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: I do notice that like,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: most of my posts get a few likes,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: but like one or two do really well.
• 25:13
  And that's what mattered more than all the little ones that
• 25:17
  just got a few likes
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: one day,
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I honestly have been thinking about that for my own stuff.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's just,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can I cut back LinkedIn, you know?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there's, it's a hard question.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And actually for somebody in your position or really in my position,
• 25:35
  I'm not sure that I give the same advice because actually I'm
• 25:37
  at a place where I'm
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: ramping up.
• 25:39
  Like next week is going to be the first time where I have my
• 25:45
  team supporting me.
• 25:47
  on how we're producing more stuff where we are going to start
• 25:50
  going to twice a day for me.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the way I think about it is like,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: so on LinkedIn,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: if you want stuff to spread,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: like post for like to really move.
• 26:02
  And this is one of the things I helped him with and I've helped
• 26:05
  a bunch of other people with.
• 26:07
  It's understanding that your best bet is to put yourself in a
• 26:11
  position where you're
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: not talking to somebody or talking at them.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking with them.
• 26:16
  So it's more like if you're talking shop,
• 26:21
  whatever it is that turns you on.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a trial lawyer,
• 26:25
  most of the people I work with are attorneys on the plaintiff's
• 26:29
  side who like
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: trying cases.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: These nerds will talk about trial practice all day long.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a blast listening to it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a blast putting it down on the page.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when they put it out there,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: the stuff that they're putting out there,
• 26:48
  they're not aiming it at people who necessarily need to hire a
• 26:52
  personal injury
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: lawyer.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're mainly aiming it at other personal injury lawyers.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So instead, and these are all people who
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: rely on referrals heavily,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: which I know you,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: you work with firms that,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: that referral marketing is a huge part of what they do.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of making the,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: just saying,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hey,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: send me your referrals in a direct,
• 27:15
  which is like the way we might traditionally think about how to
• 27:18
  leverage LinkedIn.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: it's saying like,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: let me tell you a story,
• 27:23
  a story about this time that a case went sideways or like how
• 27:28
  this trial went,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: something interesting that came up in this last trial I was in,
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: something that's like showing what you're doing,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: what you're learning,
• 27:35
  what you're struggling with in real time in a way that pulls
• 27:41
  them into the
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: conversation.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so in those posts that get more reach are when somebody,
• 27:49
  And it doesn't have to be like the best lawyer in the world or
• 27:52
  the person who's
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: gotten the biggest verdicts for 40 years.
• 27:57
  Like you can be a relatively new lawyer and have a lot of
• 28:00
  success by doing what I'm
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: describing where you're talking with,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: you're just talking shop with other lawyers.
• 28:07
  You got law students in the mix and you just have people who
• 28:11
  are interested in
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: practicing better.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's why career stuff tends to go really well.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's why for people like us,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: where we're seen as sellers.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So like your stuff, I like how your stuff is
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's aimed at the people you're trying to talk to,
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: law firm owners who could be looking for help with their marketing.
• 28:32
  Your stuff is never going to spread very far when that's the
• 28:36
  case because you're
• 28:37
  talking to somebody rather than with people who are kind of on
• 28:43
  the same side of the
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: conversation.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't matter.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're here to do.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're here to get clients.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't need...
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: 10,000 impressions on a post, 500 impressions on a post can do well.
• 28:58
  All you need to do is you're trying to get on people's radars
• 29:02
  where it's like,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: it's in a way that you can stick.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: So like that's one piece where the higher volume for you helps,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: gives you more shots to just get in front of somebody.
• 29:15
  And then the bigger thing for me is that you're creating the
• 29:19
  body of work that
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: somebody,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: when they see it and they click on your profile,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: they can go there
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then they, that's where they can engage with it.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's stuff like, it could be months later, right?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: In a way that does,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of the match,
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: and those people are never going to engage with anything,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So like,
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: it's doesn't matter,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: they're ghosts as far as we're concerned,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: but it gives them the,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: an easy way.
• 29:44
  It is your place to basically sell people on whether you know
• 29:48
  what you're talking about.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the more stuff you have, the more quality posts you have there,
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: the more you're able to show that person,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: enough that they're,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: they're basically sold on that story.
• 30:03
  Like,
• 30:03
  okay,
• 30:04
  I know I'm,
• 30:05
  I know this person knows what they're talking about.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's when they reach out to you.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's, there you go.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: You sent me on another rabbit hole,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: but I hope,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that like speaks to at least like,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think what your,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: your strategy makes a lot of sense for what that's worth.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it definitely speaks to me.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is super great.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: you probably deal with this same problem,
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: but times 10,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: which is the issue with,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: kind of getting those,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: unique responses from attorneys.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because like when I ask my attorneys like,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: let's think about like what we're going to post about on LinkedIn.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about some stories we can tell, some things we can talk about.
• 30:51
  Like I've had the issue where my clients will like send me your
• 30:54
  list of questions
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: and I do and they send me back.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: a ChatGPT response.
• 31:00
  Trying to get that unique thought leadership or those unique
• 31:04
  stories out of the
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: attorneys,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: that's the key to making all of this content super good.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to coach my clients on and well,
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: depending on the client,
• 31:15
  try to coach them or coach their marketing teams on just making
• 31:19
  more content.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just recording the podcast.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And even if it gets like 15 views or something like that,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: just having it,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: because if you have that content,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: it exists.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: What's the rule seven, 11, four, you know, somebody needs to see, um,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: seven hours of your content 11 times on four different channels.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I always have to think about it.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:45
  And so it just kind of adds to that body of content that when
• 31:49
  people do go to seek
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: more information about you,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: they see a podcast,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: they see
• 31:55
  blogs,
• 31:56
  like if you're doing a personal blog,
• 31:57
  not too many people are,
• 31:58
  but I think they should.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: They see your LinkedIn, they see your Facebook, they see your Instagram.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're continually making new content,
• 32:07
  you're just going to be way more visible than the business or
• 32:11
  the law firm that's
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: not making anything new.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's just putting money into paid ads and trying to get an ROI.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: and just trying to make it happen.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I just, that's so important.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think for our listeners is just getting in the habit of making content,
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: making your marketing more than just about lead generation,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: making it about creating something new that gets you to stand out.
• 32:36
  And that's,
• 32:37
  I know that's hard for a lot of law firms,
• 32:38
  but it's super important.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And as that distinction between lead gen and demand gen.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: And, uh, one thing I say on discovery calls is I don't do lead gen.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to do lead gen.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care to do lead gen.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh,
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: what I do is help people become the person to like,
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: if you have a specific problem and you want to solve that problem,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the person you call.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Being that clear on who you help and the problem you solve for people,
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: that when the situation arises,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: they don't need to go shopping.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: They don't need to think about it.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And content
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: To your point, is it the best way to do that?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is.
• 33:30
  Again,
• 33:30
  to your point,
• 33:31
  doing it in different forms,
• 33:34
  doing it on different channels.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: I say there's no downside.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And in part,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: there's like the ROI discussion where we're talking dark social,
• 33:46
  how hard it is to connect the dots between where did a specific
• 33:49
  case come from?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Was it Google?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Was it Facebook?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yada, yada, yada.
• 33:56
  um it's really hard i mean people say how do i show rois i
• 34:01
  don't i don't worry
• 34:02
  about it like my churn on my my these three years is almost
• 34:05
  zero um that's that's
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: how i measure whether i'm being effective that this is why i talk about
• 34:15
  being magnetic like developing a magnetic online presence what
• 34:20
  i've when i started
• 34:21
  doing this this was not at all intuitive to me but what i have
• 34:24
  learned is that the
• 34:25
  benefits of learning how to show up online are myriad there are
• 34:30
  just a bunch of
• 34:31
  different good things that can happen and good and ways to
• 34:34
  create opportunities i'd
• 34:36
  say as you said earlier in this conversation like writing is
• 34:39
  how you think right
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's like we improve our thinking
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: through our writing.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: We improve our writing through our writing.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we attract talent through our writing.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: We can attract cases.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: We can attract referrals.
• 34:53
  We can build relationships that lead to opportunities like
• 34:56
  speaking at conferences.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: There are just so many different things that can come through.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm biased toward LinkedIn,
• 35:10
  but developing a presence on a platform like LinkedIn that it's
• 35:17
  hard to pin it down
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: in monetary terms.
• 35:22
  But I think of it as something where your benefits compound
• 35:26
  that as you get better
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: at it,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: you become more magnetic and you attract more opportunities and bigger
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: opportunities,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: whether that's talent or cases or what have you.
• 35:36
  So that's a soapbox answer that is getting us toward,
• 35:45
  I think,
• 35:45
  the end of the conversation.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we're coming up at the end of it because we're 245.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're almost at the end.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess I don't have too much to add about it,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: although I feel like we could have kept talking for another hour or so.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: But so I guess just to close up,
• 36:03
  is there something you want to leave people with or do you just
• 36:05
  want people to go
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: and seek you out on LinkedIn?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: How do you want to do that?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: LinkedIn is still the best place to find me.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: I also have a podcast called In the Digital Arena,
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: but you can find that through my LinkedIn profile.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for joining me and being a guest today.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate the conversation.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: I got a lot out of it.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: I hope our listeners did.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for the free advice.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I highly recommend Tony.
• 36:30
  He does so great on LinkedIn and is just able to help all these
• 36:35
  attorneys build their profiles.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: All of the content looks really good.
• 36:39
  And just honestly kind of miles ahead of the stuff that I can
• 36:43
  do right now at my capacity.
• 36:45
  And definitely got the secret sauce,
• 36:47
  which I'm kind of jealous of,
• 36:48
  I'm being honest.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much, Tony, for being a guest.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess we'll see you next time.