Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / When Men Don't Take Care Of You

Transcript

When Men Don't Take Care Of You · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

0:05
Hi everybody, and welcome to the doctor.
0:08
Psych mom, show today, I'm going to talk about a common issue
0:13
that women tell me about which is that they don't feel like
0:17
they get taken care of in their relationships with men.
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So this is anywhere from their husband to guys that they are
0:26
first dating. They just do not feel like they
0:30
get cared for and protected in the way that would make them.
0:35
Them feel safe and loved and cherished.
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Now, there can be many reasons for this but I specifically talk
0:43
about two main buckets, that these women usually fall into
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the first are women that are high achieving and high earning
0:53
and mistakenly believe that this is a turn off to men and I've
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written about this extensively, I can link you to one of the
1:01
posts about it where I believe from Experience as a decade plus
1:07
working with individuals and couples that this is inaccurate.
1:11
And anachronistic men, no longer feel that a high achieving or
1:16
high earning woman is a turn-off frequently.
1:18
They are really happy to be with these women and the second.
1:23
Yeah. But I'll expand on that the
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second category of women that feel that they don't get taken
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care of, or women who have long been enablers and codependent
1:32
with men who really Under function.
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So you remember my over functioning podcast.
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Well, these women over function and they partner with men that
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have issues with depression past trauma athd.
1:48
Substance use. They have various issues that
1:53
they do not achieve at the level that they could, because they
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are hampered by these issues, but also because they get used
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to the woman, taking care of everything.
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So this is a Dependent Dynamic which is not due to either
2:08
individual and commonly the woman saw this at home growing
2:13
up between her parents. And so she gets into the same
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subconsciously familiar Dynamic when she's an adult despite
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really yearning for an equal. If not a man who does more
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she'll get into the same, kind of dynamic, subconsciously, So
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first, we're going to look at the first group of women that I
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described. So these are the high-achieving
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women and they they could be CEOs, they could be, you know,
2:41
bosses of some sort managers at work.
2:44
They could own their own business, whatever they are.
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They think that this is intimidating to men and that the
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potential pool of men that they can date goes down.
2:56
Whereas usually from what I I see nowadays, at least in the
2:59
people that I work with. Actually, this is pretty
3:03
attractive. A man likes a woman that is
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confident and can get shit done. And this is anywhere from the
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bedroom to the boardroom, you know, men are turned on by a
3:15
woman who is successful in confident, you know.
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And if you ask any woman, any woman any man, what a turn-on is
3:24
in a woman, they're going to say confidence.
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So then it doesn't really Concord with this view of men as
3:30
so fragile. That they cannot possibly take a
3:34
woman being successful. So frequently women think that
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because they are successful in this way, that is the reason
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that a man doesn't want to take care of that.
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And because I guess they think that the man thinks that they
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don't have a need for Financial Security, or they don't need to
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be taken care of. So, therefore, the man is just
3:55
going to Coast. So So this is not real, there
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are usually other things going on that have to do with the
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woman being high-achieving. There are other personality
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traits that go along with being high-achieving and very
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successful. Some of them can include not
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being able to really be vulnerable and ask for help.
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So somebody that's used to being at the top of the food chain is
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not really going to ask for help with things.
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Also quite practically somebody who has the energy.
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Drive to get to the top of their profession.
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Usually evidence is that same drive at home and they get shit
4:36
done constantly and they don't really ask for any help because
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they don't really need any help. They have this yearning to be
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taken care of but operationally there would be very little for a
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man to do to take care of her at least.
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Not much that she's not already told him to do, which gets to
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another, you know, point. To this is that if you do not
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allow somebody to have any space to take care of you, they can't
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if you are always thinking 17 steps ahead, then the best
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somebody can do is kind of do what you told them to do which
5:14
still isn't taking care of you in any meaningful sense.
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So in the second bucket, we have women who are codependent with
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guys who have various issues that lead to life being very
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hard for them. And Again, this is addiction
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mood issues, anxiety, trauma, whatever else I talk about, I
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have a representative couple that I title the Manchild and
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his long-suffering wife and people in this Dynamic women in
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this Dynamic find themselves taking care of the man like he's
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a baby and therefore there is really no space for the man to
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take care of them at all. And the man usually does
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basically nothing and the woman, takes care of everything and And
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on some level, she is deriving a lot of her self-worth from being
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the woman, who takes care of everything, and who can be there
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for everybody else. Usually she saw this Dynamic
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growing up where one parent was the problem.
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And one parent was the enabler who took care of.
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This problem person in the beginning of the relationship,
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there are usually red flags. This is usually the woman who
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was like doing her boyfriend's College papers and Who is doing
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his laundry, and who's making sure that he eats all of this
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stuff, just extends into marriage, doesn't change.
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So, there's there are very few times where I could see a
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completely different pattern in what somebody recounts from
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dating and and that that is totally different from what
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they're like when they're married.
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Usually, obviously there's continuity.
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That is only commonsensical. So, in both cases, no matter
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which bucket the woman is in, she needs, she wants to figure
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out the root of this pattern for herself.
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So, blaming the man is really not going to do anything.
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It takes two to get into a dynamic.
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She's the one with the problem with the dynamic, even if she
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gets out of this current relationship, I see people all
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the time, get into the same kind of relationship again despite
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very much not wanting to because this is something that that they
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haven't really worked through or processed.
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So they get right back into another relationship where they
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do not feel taken care of. So, how then can you ask for
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your needs to be met in a way that is going to make it likely
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for somebody to take care of you?
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Well, it's difficult if you've never done it before, and people
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usually then are on the side of either not asking at all, you
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know, or they are on the side of micromanaging because they feel
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so anxious that the person will not actually know how to take
8:01
care of them. So, They will say, can you do
8:06
the laundry? But I need the laundry done
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really by 4 p.m. because I need to do to get out my kids
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uniform. And I need to separate the
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clothes and so I need to put it all away, so it needs to be done
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by 4 and then also at that time, I'm going to need to be doing
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the dishes. So you do this, while I do this
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and then this and then this and then when the kids come home,
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you see my point. So nobody is going to want to
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Kind of be micromanaged and be told that they have to do
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something within the next couple of hours or otherwise, they are
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going to be a disappointment. If you actually want somebody to
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care for you. You would say something.
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Like, I'm really tired, I can't do the laundry and then you
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don't do the laundry you know. Abby this is the part where
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people say but I have to you don't have to you probably have
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quite a bit of clothes and so do your kids.
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Your kids are old enough. They can also learn to do the
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laundry but I'm using the laundry as an example.
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You know, you would say I'm too tired to do the laundry.
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I can't do the laundry and most men within a loving.
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Marriage are going to then start to do laundry and if you seem
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happy about it, they will always do the laundry because you seem
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happy most men want to please their wives.
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People talk about these situations where it's they
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villainize the man or the The infantilize him and there are
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situations where a man has never done laundry in his life and
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doesn't know how of course he can learn.
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If he has a job, then he can learn things that are hard and
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that he can also learn the laundry.
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But in most cases men have done the laundry.
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They have lived on their own, they've gone to college.
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They have had, you know, apartments by themselves or with
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roommates and they have done the laundry.
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What they don't do is they don't do the laundry by 4:00 in the
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way that you need with this separated from this and then put
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on the bed. The way you know like exactly
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all the way that you need. If you want to micromanage a
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task, this isn't going to make somebody want to do it.
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If you want somebody to take care of you this means ceding
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control. It's hard to cede control.
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When you are really anxious about, either the way that
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things get done, which is classic just anxiety, or you're
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anxious that they won't do it at all.
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So you almost make an impossible situation, you know, because you
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kind of Spect that they won't do it anyway, so you're almost
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setting them up to fail. So in these cases you're not
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giving somebody the space to actually care for you.
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You are not allowing them to decide that they are going to do
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something nice for you. If you have already told them
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exactly how you want to do it when you want to do it exactly
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how you want it done. This only allows them to kind of
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check off a box of an assignment.
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It's more of like a parent child or a teacher.
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Dynamic, then somebody who's taking care of you, somebody
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who's taking care of, you will notice.
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There's plenty of women who struggle with a lot of
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depression, and there's other women who struggle with ADHD.
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I see a lot of women who struggle with both of these
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things. And in those cases the men do
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like most of, if not all of the chores and they do it because
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the woman can do it. I mean like, that's why they do
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it. Just like the women who do all
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the chores, usually do it because they feel that the man
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can't do it. They can't do it.
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Right. Like the people who get up with
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the baby because supposedly the man can't get up in the middle
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of the night, they are doing it because they feel the man can't
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do it. People take care of other people
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of both genders when they feel that the other can't do it.
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When they feel that it would be very hard for the other person.
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That's when you sweep into do it, you don't tie your 11 year
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old shoes. They can do it, you don't do
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that to be nice because they can do it.
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You do it to your five-year-old who may struggle with it to be
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nice and you do it with your three-year-old because you have
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to. So if you want to be taken care
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of you have to need the care. So what does this mean?
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If you are somebody who literally has more energy than,
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you know, You're just real energetic and you can really do
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everything. Well, then in that case, don't
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do the things that you, you can't apparently do it all and
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to be happy or you wouldn't be listening to this podcast.
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So then just don't do the things that make you feel overwhelmed
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or overstressed. Yes, maybe you can do 100% of
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the chores and the child care and your job but apparently you
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can't do that. And also be A p.
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So then you can't. So you have to get used to
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saying you can't. If you say I can't cook dinner
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tonight, Because I'm tired then your partner if they are a
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loving partner will do it even if they never did it before,
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they will figure it out. Nobody is designing their life
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around being an asshole or making you miserable.
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If you are with somebody who is a sadistic jerk, and even when
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you're sick, says, you better cook dinner for the kids or all?
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Not your, I'm not going to do it, you know, leave that person.
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That is not a nice person, but the majority of people that are
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Coupled with with these sorts of over functioning women they're
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like they tell me I try to take care of her.
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I don't know what to do. She tells me.
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I do it wrong. She says that she wants a gift.
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I tried to get her a gift. She says it was the wrong gift.
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She says she wants help with the chores.
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I tried to do those chores. She says I'm doing them wrong or
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she's done them already. So, in this case, the woman
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wants to be taken care of, but isn't giving them an space to
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take care of her and especially in a new relationship.
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Women have Have to if they really value being taken care of
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and protected, you have to look for this variable and then like
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edited out your search based on getting this thing.
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So, on from the very first date, you don't start picking the
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place to go figuring out the logistics of how we meet up.
14:18
Making it easier for that person.
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Know you say I like Italian and then let them find an Italian
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restaurant say aye. Can't really go far from home
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because I have to get up early and see if they come to you.
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If they don't come to you don't go to them.
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So there are ways to filter out people who are more or less
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prone to take care of you. They somebody wants to take care
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of you, they're going to take care of you straight from the
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first date. This is just a personality type.
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You can train somebody to take care of you more, certainly that
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that's something that happens all the time in couples
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counseling. When I I work with couples and I
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help them and say, look, she wants to be protected and taken
15:01
care of, in this way. But usually, in those cases, a
15:04
dynamic has already been entrenched.
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And so I have to also simultaneously tell the woman to
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you know, take her foot off the gas and stopped taking care of
15:13
herself so well that the man has nothing to left to do that.
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He feels that he can really even impress her with a tall but
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right from the beginning, you have to say that you are
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somebody worthy. Of care and worthy of effort.
15:30
And this is something that you may have to work on an
15:33
individual counseling knowing that you are worthy of somebody
15:37
taking the time to take care of you and that you saying your
15:40
needs and wants is not weird or bad and you don't have to offer
15:45
something in return all the time.
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Compulsively, that's kind of another thing that people do is
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say on a first date, like a woman who really struggles with
15:56
being somebody who gets taken care of Cause she never saw this
15:58
and she's uncomfortable around it.
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She might say, well, I like Italian.
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But next time we can get whatever you like.
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Yeah. Like, he knows that, you know,
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like he can ask for whatever he wants to.
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You don't have to make like a tally sheet, you know, right
16:13
from the beginning. Because this also isn't really
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letting yourself get taken care of organically.
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It's more like kind of score keeping, I guess it's positive
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scorekeeping. Okay, I get Italian, then you
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get Chinese or whatever, but still it is, Score keeping you
16:29
just want to say what you want and trust that the other person
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can also say what they want. And that you do not have to be
16:35
the one to do the tallying up of fairness of that.
16:40
Each person gets needs met exactly 50% of the time.
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So really my point here is that you need to allow yourself to be
16:49
vulnerable and to express your needs directly and without
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micromanaging, how your needs are to be met.
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And without this idea that the other person will not want to do
17:01
it or will not be able to do it confidence in the other person's
17:05
desire to make you happy and confidence in yourself as
17:09
somebody worthy of care and love and effort.
17:13
These things are very important. Oughtn't and to do but they're
17:17
very hard. If you were raised in a
17:18
dysfunctional family of origin where you never really
17:21
understood that you have worth and that getting taken care of
17:27
is something to expect in a relationship.
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If you saw your mother and not get taken care of by your
17:33
father, you know that it's hard for you to think that that would
17:36
be something that a woman could expect in a relationship, is
17:40
some level of attention and care and protection.
17:45
So you have to work on this individually, before you say
17:50
that it doesn't work because the guy won't do it or there's no
17:53
way that your husband would ever care for you or anything like
17:56
that. There's books like that focus on
18:00
some of this. People usually don't like the
18:02
titles. One of them is the surrendered
18:05
wife. The surrendered wife is not
18:06
surrendering to her husband. She is surrendering control,
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it's actually written. It's a pretty good book, you
18:13
know, and so I would recommend it.
18:14
I'll link you to To it in the comments but it talks about how
18:17
if you're trying to micromanage everything and control and
18:20
criticize all the time, you're really cutting yourself off at
18:23
the knees. If your end goal is getting
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cared for and protected and treated with tenderness because
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a man isn't really going to want to do that.
18:31
If he always feels like, he's getting things wrong and if
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you're in charge of everything, ironically, women don't want to
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be in charge of everything. They end up feeling that they
18:40
need to be, but they've never really tested it out.
18:44
The Way. So in my ubiquitous laundry
18:47
example, they'll say, yeah, I let the laundry go for a week by
18:53
week, maybe you need to let the laundry go forever, you know,
18:56
and see what happens. He's not never going to have
18:59
clean clothes for you, or the kids or himself.
19:02
So, that's just not possible. There's plenty of people who
19:05
just stopped cooking or just stop cleaning and then the
19:10
couple's discuss, either getting somebody in to do those things
19:13
or having, you know, the other part.
19:14
Turner, do it or some combination thereof.
19:17
There's all sorts of ways to skin a cat.
19:19
But if you think that you have to do everything and you have to
19:24
do everything a certain way, especially then you are probably
19:28
not allowing space for yourself to be cared for the people that
19:33
end up getting cared for because these women always say, why do
19:36
other women get cared for? Well, usually they desert, they
19:40
feel that they deserve it and they don't criticize how it's
19:43
done. So they say, Say, oh, I would
19:45
really like a trip for my birthday and then they're happy
19:51
with the trip that they get for their birthday.
19:53
And if that happens, you know, and it's not like then the guy
19:56
does, let's say the trip to Cape Cod, she wanted a trip to
19:59
Florida, and then she like, makes his life miserable about
20:02
it. Guess what?
20:03
He's not going to do next time. He's not going to book a trip.
20:05
This is same thing. I say to guys, by the way, about
20:07
sex, guys, want more sex than be complimentary about the sex that
20:12
you're getting. If you criticize how
20:14
unadventurous, Jeurys. Your wife is when she does have
20:16
sex with you, then guess what? She's not going to do anymore,
20:19
anything, right? Nobody likes to be criticized.
20:22
So, if you want to be taken care of by your male partner, then
20:27
you must allow them to try to take care of you be positive
20:32
about the efforts, really, try to think that the thought is
20:36
what counts, which is what you teach your children to the
20:39
thought. Counts thoughts.
20:40
What is what counts. So, if the birthday gift or
20:43
whatever it is, is in Then they are trying, you know, and that
20:48
can't really be that can't be thought of as a nothing that is
20:52
an attempt and they will get better and better and better at
20:55
trying to take care of you. As you allow them more and more
20:59
and more space to do. So if this doesn't happen and
21:02
you are caught in this negative cycle where you are asking for
21:05
your needs to be met. Finally and your partner is
21:08
terribly bewildered and angry and you're switching the rules
21:11
of the game, then couples counseling can really help.
21:14
Help with this because this is a dynamic issue.
21:17
And the entire configuration of your Dynamic may have to be
21:21
changed in light of your more open stated desire to be cared
21:27
for, in a different sort of way. Then you may ever have really
21:31
stated before. Any time somebody changes what
21:34
their needs are, they're kind of changing the rules of engagement
21:37
and there can be a big, you know, a big speed bump in the
21:43
smoothness of the Because one person is changing the rules.
21:46
That doesn't mean you shouldn't change the rules.
21:49
It just means don't expect that it always goes smoothly.
21:52
All right, so if this was useful to you, then share this with
21:56
your partner and use it to open up a discussion about how you
22:01
want to be taken care of more. But how maybe you and your
22:04
partner are both contributing to this current Dynamic.
22:08
Where you do not feel taken care of the more you say that the
22:12
contribution may be shared And that's not just his fault.
22:16
The more your partner is going to be open to hearing about this
22:20
topic in about brainstorming ways to fix it.
22:24
All right? So I'll also link you to the
22:26
surrendered wife which is an interesting book to read.
22:28
Especially if you already decided that you hate it based
22:31
on the title then you're especially who should read it
22:34
because you want to be open-minded to many ways to skin
22:38
a cat. And the author does have some
22:40
good points. You don't have to agree with
22:41
everything. All right, so hopefully You
22:45
found this useful. I always like hearing feedback
22:48
from you guys. Please, you know, suggest topics
22:52
or just give me feedback. And follow me a doctor, psych,
22:56
mom.com and on Facebook and please subscribe to my podcast.
23:00
And I will talk to you guys soon.