Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #553 All The Rage - Taming Parental Anger

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#553 All The Rage - Taming Parental Anger · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Now, we don't want to have to lose control to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: show control, because that means we don't really have any
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: control at all unless we pull out the big guns.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And that's terrible for so many reasons.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 2: and dad.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Hello. This is doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Families dot com dot I you and the dad to
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  Speaker 1: six daughters who I share with my podcast partner and wife.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I probably should say wife and podcast partner makes more
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: sense if I put that first dozen on hunt. Maybe
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  Speaker 1: my wife Kylie, who also runs this podcast with me. Hello,
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  Speaker 1: it's so nice to be able to share this conversation
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  Speaker 1: with you today about dad rage o parent rage. We
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: come across an article recently in The Atlantic. I love
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the quality of the journalism in the Atlantic, and it
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: was all about a guy. His name is Keith Gesson,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: who has written a book raising RAFFI the first five years.
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  Speaker 1: Now we haven't read the book, but the book is
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  Speaker 1: really an introspection. It's a memoir, a memoir talking about
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  Speaker 1: the first five years of raising this kid and Keith
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  Speaker 1: Guessen highlights that he found himself getting cranky all the
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  Speaker 1: time as a dad, constantly getting mad at his son
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  Speaker 1: and doing and saying things that he and doing and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: seeing them in a way that he just couldn't believe.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the author Daniel Engberd, he just articulated so well.
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  Speaker 2: In former times, you know, the definition of a man
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  Speaker 2: was he went to work every day. He worked with
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  Speaker 2: his muscles, you know, he used, he used his body,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: and he brought home a paycheck and that was about it.
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  Speaker 2: He didn't really have a huge part to play in
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  Speaker 2: the role of parenting in general life unless mum said
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  Speaker 2: it was disciplinarian.
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  Speaker 1: Wait until dad gets home. Dad gets home, and then
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  Speaker 1: dad get home, find out what the kids have done,
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  Speaker 1: and then it was dad's duty almost to dish it out. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: fly into a rage or stay calm and say that's
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  Speaker 1: it now. I need to let you know what's going
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: to happen to you because you did the wrong thing.
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  Speaker 1: The world's changed, it really has.
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  Speaker 2: But what it means to be a man, and particularly
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  Speaker 2: what it means to be a father and what that
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  Speaker 2: looks like has been shifting for a number of years now.
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  Speaker 2: But there still isn't much clarity in what it looks like.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that ties you with the broader conversation
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  Speaker 1: that I mean. I like to ask people, how would
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: you define masculinity? So what does it mean to be
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  Speaker 1: a man? When I say be a man, what does
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  Speaker 1: that mean? And I keep on getting the same stereotypic
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: glances that I might have gotten in the seventies, eighties, nineties,
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  Speaker 1: two thousands. It's the same kind of stuff that you're
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: supposed to be strong, tough, stoic, brute strength kind of stuff.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: It's all about power and capacity. And I know that
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  Speaker 1: there are some enlightened people who will come up with
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  Speaker 1: some other ideas. But the more I think about what
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: masculinity is, the more I think that people are confused
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  Speaker 1: by it. It's difficult. And that's why defining fatherhood, as
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: it has gone through its significant transition over the last
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  Speaker 1: couple of decades, it confuses people. What's a dad's supposed
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  Speaker 1: to do?
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  Speaker 2: In the Pew Research Center survey, they actually asked parents
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  Speaker 2: to describe whether or not being a parent was extremely
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  Speaker 2: important to them, And what was interesting in it was
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  Speaker 2: that fifty eight percent of women said that it was so.
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  Speaker 2: Did fifty seven percent of men. There actually wasn't really
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  Speaker 2: a difference between men and women in that role of
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: parental responsibility. Men still don't have clarity around it, and
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  Speaker 2: it really has an impact on their capacity to, I guess,
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  Speaker 2: work through the challenges as they come.
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  Speaker 1: So a couple of things stood out to me as
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  Speaker 1: we were having a look at this, and this is
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  Speaker 1: the main reason that I want to discuss this, guess.
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  Speaker 1: The author of Raising Rafi and the author of the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: overall Atlantic article are both making the same point, and
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  Speaker 1: that is that parenting is self discovery.
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  Speaker 2: I love that.
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  Speaker 1: I actually love that which and I've been saying something similar,
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  Speaker 1: not quite so succinctly, for years, and I've been saying
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  Speaker 1: that parenting isn't about your children's about you. You learn
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: about who you are when you're a p But they
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: said this, They said, you don't know anything about yourself
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  Speaker 1: until your baby gets older. And that's what happened with me.
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  Speaker 1: I know I've shared this story a lot, so I've
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  Speaker 1: shared the short version. But you went out one afternoon.
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  Speaker 1: I was exhausted. I was looking after the baby and
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  Speaker 1: our three year old. The three year old wouldn't have
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  Speaker 1: her nap. I lost the plot. It was that incident
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  Speaker 1: that literally led to you and I having a sit
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  Speaker 1: down conversation where you highlighted that I was not a
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  Speaker 1: particularly good dad or husband for that matter, and I
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  Speaker 1: chose to leave my radio career go back to school forever,
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  Speaker 1: like eight and a half years of full time study
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  Speaker 1: while we tried to keep our family growing and pay
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  Speaker 1: off a mortgage, and I got my degrees plural so
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  Speaker 1: that I could learn how to be a better dad.
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  Speaker 1: But it was all about my inability to be who
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  Speaker 1: I knew that I was supposed to be. And what
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  Speaker 1: I discovered through that is that self discovery hurts. As
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  Speaker 1: I watched who I was becoming as a parent, I
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  Speaker 1: didn't like it. It was awful, it was hard. I
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  Speaker 1: was getting it so wrong. And those low points, with
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  Speaker 1: the frustration and the exhaustion and the innate desire that
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I had and still have to use my power to
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  Speaker 1: get what I want when the kids aren't playing nice,
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  Speaker 1: it's horrible. It's just horrible. And so I wanted to
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: share in this podcast a whole lot of things around
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  Speaker 1: anger management from both mums and dads, because dad rage
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  Speaker 1: and parent rage it's a real thing. We get exhausted.
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  Speaker 2: A key line in the Atlantics article says, parenthood unhinges people,
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  Speaker 2: and it's not gender related. It unhinges both mums and
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  Speaker 2: dads in this process, and that, like you said, that
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  Speaker 2: sense of self discovery becomes quite unsettling for all of us.
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  Speaker 1: But only if you're willing to do the self discovery.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, some parents won't do that at all. They'll
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  Speaker 1: just say, my kids need to learn to listen, my
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  Speaker 1: kids need to do as they're told. I'm the unilateral arbiter,
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  Speaker 1: I'm the one who knows everything here, and this is
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: just this is just kids being ridiculous and frustrating and pathetic.
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  Speaker 1: But Kylie, I just think we discover so much about
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  Speaker 1: ourselves if we're willing to be introspective. We discover our impatience,
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  Speaker 1: We discover our finitude, the inability that we have to
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  Speaker 1: actually navigate some of these challenging situations. They all show up.
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  Speaker 1: I've got to share this. I mean, this was such
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  Speaker 1: a good article. We will link to it in the
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: show notes. But yelling, it turns out, is a pretty
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: gendered issue. According to an article in Favely's Official Guide
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: to Anger Management, if testosterone can help you to throw
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  Speaker 1: a baseball harder. A child psychiatrist says, then it can
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  Speaker 1: also make you hurl your voice with greater volume and velocity,
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  Speaker 1: which is extra scary for a kid. It's not that
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  Speaker 1: mums don't yell, it's that fathers yell with more force.
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  Speaker 1: And I read that and it really, I mean, it
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  Speaker 1: socked me between the eyes, because I'll often hear parents
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  Speaker 1: say the kids will always listen to their dad, but
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  Speaker 1: they won't listen to me. Mums say that all the time,
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  Speaker 1: and I've always kind of wondered, what is it about that?
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  Speaker 1: But there's something about the power that a dad has
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  Speaker 1: that a mum doesn't. And again, there are some moms
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  Speaker 1: who clearly do and who have a whole lot of
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  Speaker 1: it there. But it's the way that a father can
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  Speaker 1: hurl that voice. The adrenaline, the cortisol, the testosterone that
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  Speaker 1: are making the man so much stronger in the way
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  Speaker 1: that he shows up in frustration and anger at his kids.
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  Speaker 2: But do you think part of that comes from that
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  Speaker 2: need to fit into the stereotype of what it is
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  Speaker 2: to be masculine firstly, and secondly, that need that generally speaking,
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  Speaker 2: males have to fix things.
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  Speaker 1: It could be Something that really struck me as I
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  Speaker 1: was working through this article was that we're exerting our
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  Speaker 1: control as we're losing it. And it's something that I
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  Speaker 1: talk to parents about all the time. Is the more
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  Speaker 1: you have to show your kids that you're in control of,
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  Speaker 1: the less in control you actually house.
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  Speaker 2: You've lost it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems that as parents we just get
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  Speaker 1: so caught up in control and we all get angry
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  Speaker 1: mums and dads. But there seems to be something particularly
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to use the word violent, something particularly extra
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  Speaker 1: strong about a dad's rage compared to a mum's rage
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  Speaker 1: that I think is concerning and scary. And we don't
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  Speaker 1: want to have to lose control to show control, because
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  Speaker 1: that means we don't really have any control at all
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  Speaker 1: unless we pull out the big guns, and that's terrible
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  Speaker 1: for so many reasons. Yelling backfires at rupture's relationships, that
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  Speaker 1: undermines resilience, It increases anxiety and shame in our kids,
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  Speaker 1: and so many other things. So was there anything else
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  Speaker 1: from the article that you really wanted to highlight? Because
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  Speaker 1: I think because this is the podcast or the type
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  Speaker 1: of parent who wants answers, I think we need to
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  Speaker 1: talk about how we can find solutions to the rage
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  Speaker 1: that sometimes boils up inside us.
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  Speaker 2: No, I think solutions are good.
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  Speaker 1: Let's do that after break. If you've got a team,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: you're likely already worried about alcohol and drug use. As
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  Speaker 1: a parent, you want to know how do we protect them,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: how do we teach them? How do we know if
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: they're up to something? Pot Pills and parenting will equip
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: an empower you to help your twins and teens navigate
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: one of the most challenging adolescent issues today. Available on
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: the Happy Famili's webshop.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for a time
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now and I would
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  Speaker 2: love some solutions. How do we help whip this raid?
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  Speaker 1: The tame anger I'm going to share let me see
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  Speaker 1: seven of them, six of them. I'll share six tips
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  Speaker 1: to tame anger. Number one the mantra. Do you know
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  Speaker 1: the mantra that I've been saying to myself now for
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  Speaker 1: nearly twenty years, every time I start to get angry,
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  Speaker 1: those words that I repeat over and over and over again, You.
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  Speaker 2: Can't make me angry.
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  Speaker 1: No, that's not the one, but it is something that
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  Speaker 1: I teach the kids all the time. Now, I remind
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: myself to be calm and kind, but I don't say
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: it out loud, which is why you didn't know the answer.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: But calm and kind. Practice a mantra that emphasizes what
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: you want to be, and repeat it when your fuse
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  Speaker 1: is burning. It helps you to get your motives right
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  Speaker 1: and that way you get to focus more on connect
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: than correction. So that's my first one. Just rebalance yourself,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: reset to yourself. I guess. As an alternative, if you
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: don't want to have a mantra, you might just breathe,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: pause inhale, or walk out or yeah, yeah, you know what,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: walk out, get some nature into you, take some fresh
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: air in look at the sky, look at the trees,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: look at the grass, look at the moon, anything you're
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: not looking at your child in anger. It's the same
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: kind of idea. Calm and kind or taking a beat,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: taking a moment, breathing. That's tip number one.
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  Speaker 2: What's number two?
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  Speaker 1: Speak softly because when we're getting angry, what happens is
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  Speaker 1: our thought process speeds up and the volume of our
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: voice increases. Something remarkable happens. If we can soften our voice,
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  Speaker 1: our children are more likely to hear us rather than
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: less likely, like they switch off. They get too scared
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: when we're yelling and screaming. But if we speak softly,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: they listen more closely, and they do it without panicking
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: because they're not in fear for their backside. They're not
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: fear for their Nintendo or for their iPad or whatever
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  Speaker 1: they think might get taken off them. Not that any
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: parent who listens to this podcast would do that, but
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Number three, this is my
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: favorite one. This is the psychological distancing tool that I
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: talk about in some of my webinars, and I think
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I've done a podcast or too on these ideas. You
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: might do this in a couple of ways. Number One,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: speak to your angry self in the third person. So
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I might say to myself.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Kylie, I'm getting angry. Kylie, you're getting angry.
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  Speaker 1: Kyly, you're starting to lose them. Yeah, but you would
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: say that. I wouldn't say that to you, because.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I'd say to me, Kylie, I can tell you're really
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: starting to get worked up.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Kylie, you're starting to get really really mad. Or Kylie,
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  Speaker 1: you know better than this. That's what I would say.
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  Speaker 1: It's like somebody outside of you who is actually talking
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: to you, and it kind of or another way of
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: doing it is saying, Kylie, I'm beginning to notice that
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: you're getting angry, and then you can laugh at yourself
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: about how silly you seem. But you're stepping out. It's
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: like you're an outside observer looking in on yourself and
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: passing gentle judgment, not to shame yourself, but just to
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: remind yourself that you're not living up to where you
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: want to be.
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  Speaker 2: Or you just do the fake smile in the mirror.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that could work as well. Sometimes. Good luck
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: with that though, especially when you're getting really mad.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Number four.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I love doing this. Adopt a mental mentor. So maybe
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: you can picture a dad or a mum who absolutely
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: nails their parenting every time. They're patient, they're compassionate, they're
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: immortal maybe, but you can use that to channel them
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: like you can you can channel your inner mental mentor
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: or pretend that they're there, that they're present, watching you
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: in your imagination, because you don't behave the same way
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: when you've got an audience.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: You know, no one is perfect all the time.
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  Speaker 1: No, I know, but you don't know when they're not perfect.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: You've only seen them when they're perfect.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Because you say, that's what I'm saying. You just need
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: to be aware no one's perfect.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Number five, do the opposite. So,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: if you know that you're really angry and that you
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: tend to do things that you're going to regret when
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: you're angry, think about what the exact opposite of what
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you want to do is, and do that. I want
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: to yell them, Okay, I should speak softly. I want
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: to smack them. Okay, I should hug them or bring
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: them close.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Okay. So who in their right mind is going to
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: think that when they want to scream, it's because they're
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: not in their right mind. That's the point, right, you're
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: not in your right mind. So how do you get
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: to a point where you actually think.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: That it's about practice and it's about practicing it when
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you're not furious, when you're not losing it. But maybe
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: you can start to feel the agitation, and so you
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: get in earlier think Okay, I'm starting to feel agitated.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: What I'm inclined to do is this, But I know
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be better off if I do this.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: I need to do the opposite. And I mean I've
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: told myself to do this hundreds of times over the years,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and it's powerful the way it works.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: I haven't used that specific tool, but for me often
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: it is just a remembrance of what I felt as
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: a child in that situation and what I wished had
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: have happened.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful, that's great idea.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, so my parents, so obviously they'd get angry, But
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: what I really wanted them to do was tell me
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: that it was okay, that it was just a mistake,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and they understood that it wasn't.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: That they loved you no matter what. And if you'd
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: gotten that, what would you have done?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Just that feeling of safety and security.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: And the reality is, when you think about the things
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: that drive us crazy about our children is they're never
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: trying to make us angry.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Not usually every now and again they are, but not usually.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: You know, they're excitable, they're inquisitive. There, you know, they
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: don't have the foresight that we have as adults or
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: the experience.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: They're tired and exhausted and overwhelmed and don't know how
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: to deal with things.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: They just need to feel safe and secure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and your reaction, even if you share what you
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: wish your parents had done, highlights just why this conversation
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: matters so much, because the shame and the anxiety, and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the ruptured relationships that are caused by our anger, they're
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: long lasting. You're in your forties and you still feel
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: that level of pain little Kylie when she was, when
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: she was just a kid and not getting it. You
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: could spin it around as well, Kylie and look in
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: the other direction. When I'm in my seventies and I've
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: got my thirty or forty year old son or daughters
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: sitting at the table with me, what do I want
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: their reflections to be of those times where I could
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: have lost it but I didn't, or maybe those times
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: where I did lose it. Like that mental time travel thing,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you've gone backwards, I'm going forwards, but it's the same thing.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: It taps into those values and helps you to recognize
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: what you need to do rather than get angry.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: And number six, So this one's a really important one
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and I've saved it for last, and it's this. You
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: need to look after yourself and seek professional help when
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you need it. So spend time looking after your own
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: mental health. For your sake and for your kids. But
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: if there is rage in your system, then there is
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: work to do. Anger is a secondary emotion, It comes
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: from somewhere else. It's usually masking something, often fear, often sadness,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: often stress. It's all of this stuff that we don't
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: know what to do with properly. And we've got to
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: do the inner work and know how to become emotionally
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: literate and manage and regulate our own emotions in healthy
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: and functional ways so that we don't start raging. If
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: we can get it together ourselves, then we look on
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  Speaker 1: our children with compassion and kindness, and we respond to
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: their difficulty in such powerful ways. So those are my
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: six tips for helping to tame our parental anger and rage.
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  Speaker 1: I hope there's been a helpful podcast. I hope that
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: it's answered some questions for you and giving you some
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: useful ideas to think through. The Happy Famili's podcast is
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: produced by Justin Ruland for Bridge Media, with Craig Bruce
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: as our executive producer. If you'd like more information about
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: making your family happier, please visit us at Happyfamilies dot
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: com dot au. Tomorrow, an interview with Amantha Imber from
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: How I Work all about her brand new book, and
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: on Thursday, a podcast that we cannot wait for. It's
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: book Club Again, where Kylie and I share with you
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: the favorite books that we've read in the last month
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: or thereabouts and what we've learned to make our families happier.