Latest / The Living Loss | Navigating Invisible Grief & Identity / Living with the Hidden Grief of Starting Over with Andy Ellwood 2|06

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Living with the Hidden Grief of Starting Over with Andy Ellwood 2|06 · The Living Loss | Navigating Invisible Grief & Identity

• Daiana, LMHC: Welcome to the Living Loss Podcast. I'm Daiana Bernard. Cassandra, LMHC: And I'm Cassandra Harris Towner. Daiana, LMHC: As licensed mental health counselors, we're here to unpack the quiet, complex grief that don't come with the funeral. Cassandra, LMHC: Because you can't heal what you don't acknowledge. Join us as we name these hidden losses and create a meaningful path forward together. Daiana, LMHC: Let's dive in. So we talk about quiet losses on this show, and today we are unpacking resilience and rediscovering yourself as life hits you with a multiple overlapping heartbreaks all at once. Cassandra, LMHC: Have you ever felt like life gives you lemons that you just don't know how to make juice from? Then stick with us today for this amazing story. And before we introduce our guests, we do invite you to take a moment to just subscribe, it means the world to us. Daiana, LMHC: It sure it does. So last week we broke down how heavy grief can get when it comes all at once, when it's overload, when it's when it's also quiet and it's hidden loss that people don't always see or validate, and how deeply it shakes you and it affects your identity. Cassandra, LMHC: Our guest today has lived every single layer of that. He's here to share what happened when his own foundation shook and crumbled a little bit, and how he put the pieces back together. Andy Elwood is a creator at heart who loves bringing people together, but his journey hasn't always been easy. Today he's here to share what happens when your personal house of cards gets knocked over. He's opening up about the painful loss of friendships, the hard work of rediscovering his own identity. And how all those struggles shaped his core belief, make room for money. Through it all, his passion remains the same using the tools we have to level the playing field, open doors, and make everyday life a little more connected for everyone. Welcome, Andy. Andy Ellwood: Thank you guys for having me. Appreciate it. Daiana, LMHC: I'm so glad you're here your journey definitely reflects how discovering who we are comes with high highs and low lows and everything in between, right? In your pre-interview, you mentioned that the first we're real awareness that you had about external expectations, like what people thought about you and how maybe you viewed yourself at the time was different. What happened there and how did that moment you said that happened at church, right? And how that moment shaped you moving forward. Andy Ellwood: Yeah, I think that that I grew up in an incredible household. Extremely grateful that it is the way that I grew up, but it was such a an insular environment because we only hung out with other families that were a lot like ours. Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: And so there was just a constant reinforcing of this is what normal is. And we were, small community, you know, at a church in, you know, the suburbs of Dallas, Texas. you know, I was in church four to five days a week, for for something. my parents were in, led small, small groups, and I helped out in the nursery and my siblings, you know, were involved in other various parts of the church. And then there was the youth groups, and then there was the Bible memorization club and you know, all sorts of things that it was just Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: all encompassed. but it was an incredible community. But I started to travel. I started to step outside. I started to meet people that were different than me. And and this internal curiosity kept coming up. And I was like, wait a second. That's different. And and it was it was it was kind of exciting in in a way that Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Mm. Andy Ellwood: I I was glad that I was able to identify and and kind of give give some oxygen to that small little flame. But Daiana, LMHC: How old were you around that time when you started travelling? Andy Ellwood: my first international trip was when I sixteen and Daiana, LMHC: nice. Andy Ellwood: and my yeah, fur you know, hopped on a plane in Dallas and woke up the next morning in Lima, Peru. it was just like you know, my first international, we pick trip was to Peru. And I just was like I was like, I don't understand anything that's happening here. it was for something with the church and you know, and but but just seeing the different culture outside of like when we traveled growing up as as a family, we stayed with friends, right? We didn't stay in hotels, we had to go to resorts, we we drove across the country and we usually were stopping at people's homes that we knew and they kind of also Already agreed with us. And so it was like another pocket of people that would agree with us that just lived in a different place. And so e Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: that was not necessarily that that big. and my aunts and uncles that disagreed with us had made a pact with our at the parent level. We don't talk about politics, we talk talk about religion, and we talk talk about schooling choices. And so we only talked about sanitized things. And so even though they were very different from us living in different parts of of the country, we didn't really ever get to experience that. It was it was it was kind of a manufactured safe space that like we don't want to argue when we're with the family. So we'll just only talk about things that we agree on, like what's for dinner tonight. And so Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: it really was when I moved to London for with a work visa in college that I started to realize, wow, there's actually people that are very, very different than me. and that was kind of the the moment that like the bubble burst a little bit where I was I was like I was like, I wanna know what they think and why they think that. Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: and that's that kind of sent me down a path of of realizing that as grateful as I am to my parents for the way that I grew up and giving me a foundation of this is what we believe and we're gonna share that with you. I had to go start to figure out what I believed so that I could own it for myself and not just be This is my parents' point of view. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Cassandra, LMHC: So what was that shift like for you? I know you had mentioned at one point that if church was a game, you could have won the Super Bowl. So that's how Andy Ellwood: Ha ha ha Cassandra, LMHC: like in depth you were in that. So when you started shifting into your own thought process and these ideas that you had that differed from everyone else's, what was the result of that? Andy Ellwood: Yeah. It was a lot of a lot of journaling. I've been keeping journals since I was fifteen and and it was kind of the only place where that where I could put those thoughts. Then I was like, my gosh, I hope nobody would ever read these, you know, because Daiana, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: it was it was I mean it was just for me. and and I started to, spend time with people who were also questioning things and you know, questioning different things than what I was questioning. but when I started to realize that that the beliefs that were held by a lot of the people in that I grew up with in you know the church that I grew up grew up in, you know, kind of were were pretty paper thin when you get applied some pressure. Like if you ask questions about why we believed those things, if you, you know, said, Well your actions don't really necessarily line up with this part of what we believe, Yeah, just j just like it's fine, just don't worry about that. Like, you know, it was I was like, I don't know, but I but I do wanna worry about that. Like I wanna ask that question. and so I think that that kind of the the you know A lot of it was just internal and was just mine. and you know, and I was always it wasn't necessarily living a double life 'cause I wasn't like off, you know, raging and partying on the weekends and making it to church on Sundays, although, you know, I know people that did and that's at different points in my life I have definitely been hung over in church later on. But that was not what was happening then. but the kind of the the really big tipping point was my girlfriend of my of five years. you know, we decided to move in together and it just rocked everyone's world. because the us moving in together after five years like, wait, like, wait, you guys are having sex before marriage? my God. And Daiana, LMHC: yeah. Andy Ellwood: that is just like the like the the absolute no no in you know in yeah yeah yeah Daiana, LMHC: Right. Moving in together is like that's all they you know, they hear. Wait, what? What's happening here? Andy Ellwood: not like we're happy for you now it's so amazing that you guys found each other, not you know that we see all the cool things that you guys are doing together and blah blah blah you know and so Daiana, LMHC: could imagine like why aren't you getting married? Right? Like they're like, Well why aren't you getting married? You have to get married. Andy Ellwood: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it was all of those questions. And and that was the first public visibility into the fact that A D had changed. Right? No like I changed long before that. but that was the first like external thing that anybody saw. And and the the wave of concern and you know, we need to meet with you and people who I hadn't heard from since high school, jumping into messages on Facebook to judge me and tell me what a disappointment I am to everything that I've ever stood for and that my younger siblings, are gonna, be rocked by this and that they're, you know, that I'm gonna send them off on a horrible course because of these decisions. And you know, I almost was uninvited from being a part of, people's weddings because you know I was like a grooming wedding and I was told that that they were debating whether they they wanted to allow me into the church and stand up on stage with them. and and I it was just a lot of things that I was kind of like cool. Like like it was a little bit like a I I thought this might have been the the way things were. It was kind of validated and and in hindsight it was kind of like proof that the the the things that ever we all held as like the the the stained glass masquerade, right? Like Sunday mornings, we were all perfect. Right? We were all people who needed to be in church and were doing good things for, you know, for the local community, but you know, every else's mistakes were just not as visible as the one that apparently I was making. And and so it was a it was a pretty wild couple of years where just almost the whole network just turned their back on me, right? And and so, you know, I was attending a different church and, you know, I I had different, different friend group that was not quite as obsessed or interested in, in in that side of things. But you know, it was it was kind of a the probably kind of a little bit of the first death of of Andy, right? The, Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Mm. Andy Ellwood: the the Super Bowl winning churchgoer was was you know was knocked off knocked off that pedestal and I was kinda glad that I was no longer on that pedestal. I was kinda glad that, nobody w was still trying to hold me to that standard that I hadn't been I had not held myself to for a very long time. Daiana, LMHC: Yeah, so it wasn't a feeling of well it could have been a f as well, like a feeling of betrayal or like I thought you guys had my back, I thought you guys loved me. But it seems like what overpowered it was like I knew I kind of knew this. And Andy Ellwood: Yeah. Daiana, LMHC: this feeling of entering into who I really am. And then also you seeking out people in a church that did accept you for this version that you were that you were and you were becoming was completely different. So it could have felt like Well, you know, I I actually don't even wanna be there. If that's if that's what it is. Andy Ellwood: Yeah, yeah. One of the things that helped through that that time was a book by Scott Peck, The Road Less Traveled. And in Daiana, LMHC: Hm. Mm. Andy Ellwood: in there he talks about the difference between community and true community. And and he talks about the the four stages of true community. The first stage being, you know, you are a community because of something that you have in common, a school you go to, a church you attend, a football team that you cheer for, right? You know, we're a community because we're Dallas Cowboys fans. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: But then you enter into chaos when you start to realize that that's not enough that like that that's not the whole person. The whole that that person is not just a Dallas Cowboys fan. They actually have other thoughts and beliefs. And maybe they voted for somebody different than you. And and they, you know, they they raise their kids differently. They, you know, have different perspectives on, the the way that the you know tax dollars should be spent, whatever it is. There's something Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: else that kind of like shatters you're like, my gosh, we don't agree about. anything except that we love the Dallas Cowboys. And so you enter into despair. And in despair is where you get to make a choice. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: Do you want to go back up and only hang out with people at a at a surface community level? Or do you want to achieve true community, which is I accept you for all that you are? And and the Dallas Cowboys were just the first thing that brought us together. Let's find the rest of the things that bring us together. And that's the that's the journey that I went on with my family through this, because as you know, I was probably the first, to try to shift. I'm one of four kids. And if you look at the four of us, we all live incredibly different lives now, all from the same household, right? And we've all made very different life choices, and we all, you know kind of carry ourselves differently. But we're Daiana, LMHC: Where do you fall? Where do you fall in line with the siblings? Andy Ellwood: I so being the eldest and yeah, Daiana, LMHC: you're the eldest. Andy Ellwood: so I'm the oldest and this my s my sister, and then I have two br two younger brothers, one who's twelve years younger than me, so he's the baby of the family. and and so we're you know, we're all just very different in the experiences that we had, the the way that we ch chose to you know, the way that my p our parents let us do school. We were homeschooled growing up and so Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: we all had completely different versions of what graduating high school looked like. You know, I was an entrepreneur, so I was I was building companies and making money and and then I would do school in the afternoon. my sister did school three days a week and then interned at a local radio station because she wanted to get into media. my brother was a jock. wake up super early, get his school done before lunch, and then go to the gym, go to bat you know, batting cages and and you know play baseball every afternoon. And then my youngest brother is is artistic and he did school when he felt like doing school and took photos and was was hanging out with friends you know the rest of the time. And you can kind of see all of that in a little bit in the way that we have become I'm still building companies. My sister is still involved in media. she lives on a farm in Ireland, but her husband is a sound sound engineer. my brother, the baseball player, you know, followed the path and you know, got married to his college sweetheart, has four kids, and they all play baseball. and he's the coach for all four of the kids' teams. and then my younger brother, you know, lives in Austin and volunteers at a at a video store. when he's not at work and when he's not taking photos on his you know old 35 millimeter camera you know so Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: you like we all kind of did we're all kind of doing what we were doing in high school but just in very different you know different ways and and all still come back together when there's we choose to be family now right we're not just family because Daiana, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: we're we have the same last name but we choose to be family now but it took Twenty years, for us to kind of find the rhythm and and opt in to that, to that those types of relationships. Cassandra, LMHC: And that's that second sort of community that you were talking about where Andy Ellwood: Yeah, yeah. Cassandra, LMHC: it you guys, like you said, just happened to be have the same last name, so you were family, but now now it's true community. Andy Ellwood: Yeah. Yeah. And we know that we disagree about things and and sometimes we talk about them, sometimes we don't. but we choose to be there for each other, we choose to show up, as as much as we can, even though we all live in different parts of the world. Cassandra, LMHC: So where are you right now? Where are you calling in from? Andy Ellwood: I'm in New York City. Yeah. Cassandra, LMHC: Okay. And y I believe you'd mentioned that you'd been there about sixteen years? Andy Ellwood: Yeah, yeah. That was kind when the when the the world shattered a little bit, in my Texas community. I was working for a New York based company. Daiana, LMHC: No. Andy Ellwood: And so I was in New York all the time and I was like, you know what, Texas will be there when I get back. let's see what New York is like. And you know, sold everything we had in Dallas, moved to moved to New York City without a place to deliver a job, figured it out, driving the U-Haul on the way there. When I got to New York, I found my crazies. I found the people who who were unreasonable about their expectations of the world, just like I was. And, in Texas, if you're in the top ten percent of your high school class, you get automatic admissions to the state schools. And so I went to Texas AM University. And so when you get to Texas AM, you realize that everybody there is the top 10% of their high school, right? And you're not special anymore. You are not top 10%. Daiana, LMHC: No, no, no. Andy Ellwood: You have to become top 10% again if you want to if if that's important to you. And in some ways that's how New York City feels. No one moves to New York City to like see what happens, right? Everyone moves to New York City with an ambition or something that they believe can only happen in a place like New York. and so it's it's addictive. And the people that I meet here, you know, whether they're here for a couple of years or their or their lifers, are just some of the most interesting people and the energy of just waking up in the in the morning or walking outside and there's a whole entire world already happening is is is my my kind of drug. And so married Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: a New Yorker, my daughter you know my daughter's a New Yorker, so I'm I'm I'm here for the duration. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Sixteen plus years and it feels like, you were born you were born in Texas, but you have that New York, energy. And that was like where you really found home and you, you grew your roots there. Andy Ellwood: Yeah, yeah, when my parents came to visit like three months after I'd moved to New York, they're like, you're like you're not coming home, are ya? No, those Yeah, they they Cassandra, LMHC: Ha ha ha Daiana, LMHC: What made you think that? Yeah. Andy Ellwood: they they they they saw a different they saw a different version Daiana, LMHC: Well. Andy Ellwood: of me. And it and truthfully it it's the version of me know, that in Texas, four thirty on a Friday and I'm you I'm still in the office cranking and everybody's Me just a happy hour. Like, what are doing? And I was like, there's still work. Like there's there's still, you know, hours in the day. I can I can get more done. And that is not what it's like to work in, in in the community that I was a part of in Texas. And it is what it's like to work, you know, in New York City. So Daiana, LMHC: Yeah, yeah. New York met you where you were at. Yeah. Andy Ellwood: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's you know, it's the type of place that, you know, you find other people that that run at that pace. I have a a a good friend, Adam Delahante, who is just a hilarious writer. he's a ghostwriter for, major companies, CEOs and people titans of industry that everybody's heard of. But he has a really funny Instagram where he you know kind of deadpans his thoughts to the camera. And one of them is to be my friend, you must have the same level of ambition as me. I don't want you to be too ambitious, but I also don't want you to be like a couch potato. Like we Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: can be friends if our ambition is this. and that's kind of, I think what people find in New York is like there's you know, there's all ranges of ambition, but you're you're there's a much broader range and you can find your your spot on the on the spectrum. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So you built your life there and and tell us about the build and then what happened. Andy Ellwood: Yeah, yeah. moved to New York with the girlfriend that I'd moved in with, who I'd met in college and you know, she was a journalist and had her ambition for what she wanted to do there and I joined a startup and was was a part of building a company that would eventually be be acquired by Facebook. And so that happened within first few years of being in New York. So I learned what it's like to build a a technology company and was fortunate to you know move on and and build another company, be a part of building another company, which was called Waze, the traffic and navigation app. So I helped Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: open the New York office for them. you know they were based in Israel and they were just starting to expand from Israel and they needed somebody to run partnerships globally. So that was the the role that I took and I mean I was it it was a rocket ship I was there for less than two years. but we were acquired by Google and I was just like this is incredible like let's go. so Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: married my high school or my college sweetheart and you know was super pumped about building a life just sold my second startup we were doing all the things we moved to Brooklyn to get the brownstone we set decided we wanted to start a family I started another company and and I and I was sitting there at thirty two and I had literally everything that I'd ever actually wanted. I was I was building my own company. I had a a home that I was excited about in New York City. I was married to you know my best friend and we had just found out we were gonna get that we were pregnant. in sixth grade somebody asked, What do you want to be when you grow up? And I was like, easy. I want to be a dad. And they're like, no, no, no. I mean, like, what's your job? I was I like, I'll I'll figure that out. But like I really want to be a dad. And so was like, my gosh, like, you know, I'm holding the ultrasound and I'm like, you know, it's a little boy and I I'm you know, I'm buying, you know, little suits for him and like, you know, just like so pumped. And so summer of summer of twenty fourteen, I'm just kinda like, it happened. Like I actually did what I like set out to do. and then unfortunately, My wife miscarried on Labor Day. and so we lost the baby. and that just set off a whole series of events that within a couple of months later she asked me for a divorce. you know, Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: she you know, she's like, I I think that was a close call. that all that almost might have been permanent. And I was I was I was like, I have a Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: ring on my finger that says this is permanent. Daiana, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: and and right after that the my startup lost the funding that we had been been promised. And so by the end of the year I had none of the things that I thought I had over the summer. And so it was, you know, it was it was just the one, two, three, And so I was sitting at the holiday party, the team. And we eventually figured out how to resurrect the company l you know later. But like, you know, pretty dark Q four. And I was just like I was like, my gosh. Like I don't even know which way's up, right? Like I it Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: I'd been with my ex-wife, my my now ex-wife for twelve years, right? Like all like we got together when I was twenty. Like, you know, she was Daiana, LMHC: It's a lifetime. Andy Ellwood: yeah, she was the only real relationship I'd ever had, you know. And so all of a sudden I'm in New York and single and working for a company that, no longer paying me which is not fun to do in New York and and Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: you know, lot, you know, ended up not, you know, keeping the the home that we had in New York and she took the dog and, like kinda set kind of set me on a okay, now what? You know? And at the moment it was completely disorienting. Right. There was it was a lot of, you know, sleeping on air mattresses and friends' living rooms, you know, around the city. but it starts you know, in hindsight, it was one of the most incredible experiences to get everything you ever want, lose it, and then decide, is that actually what you really wanted? Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: That that was what kind of the the reflection that I I I now can sit with, you know, twelve years later, is the house of cards that I'd built crumbled, but only a couple of the cards fell off the table. Only a couple of cards were no longer available to me. And I got to decide which ones I brought back and in what order. And that Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: is is a gift that I I don't know that I wish on anyone, just the the totality of that experience. but it's it's one that I I now have a profound amount of gratitude for. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. I mean, when we're talking about identity, you were a husband, you know, you are a business owner, husband, and soon to be father. And it seems like you had that experience that it was as soon as you found out the baby was coming, you were a dad. So it was those those major cards, so they're like foundational. So a lot of cards fell because of those, you know, two really important Andy Ellwood: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Daiana, LMHC: ones. And then you said that it was like disorienting. And then came the realization, what do I want? Right? Like how people always ask like how long does grief last or things like that? just in like your timeline, how long do you think or what was the process for you to become from disorienting to that like realization, do do I even want this life? Andy Ellwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, before moving to New York City, my girlfriend at at the time and I watched all of Sex in the City. Like the whole entire Velvet, you know, DVD set. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: And and and at first I was like, girly show, you know. but what I started to realize is yeah, there's the four women in in the show, but the fifth main character is New York City. And so 2015 and 2016 was like me hanging out with New York. Right. Like New York was was the well New York was my muse, right? Like I like I I ate food in every borough from every nationality that I could find. Right. My friends and I, we went on around the world in four thousand calories. we w and and we would pick a neighborhood and we would try and eat as many different cuisines in that neighborhood as we could in four hours. you know, like and and I just like started doing Daiana, LMHC: I love it. Andy Ellwood: things that like had no Direct correlation to all of the ambition that I'd had, right? All of the I'm, you know, here's the box and I'm gonna check it. I'm gonna be, you know, I'm gonna get Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: married. I'm gonna be a dad. I'm gonna be a business owner, I'm gonna sell my companies. And I just started doing things because I liked them. Right. I just started doing things because I found joy in them. I taught myself to cook and just to like let my mom know that I was doing okay, I started doing hashtag chef andy on my Instagram so you know I it was just like you know here's Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: a here's a new dish I tried hashtag chef andy and somebody who I met through just you know showing up to things followed me on Instagram and calls me out of the blue and says hey Andy we have a nonprofit event this weekend and we just lost our chef would you be willing to to donate your chef services this event I was I was like tell me about the event they're like there's 40 people and we need somebody to cook dinner and I was like great I'll do it and I figured it out like I just did it because I wanted to and so in my tiny little itty bitty New York City apartment Daiana, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: I like created like a like a a full culinary experience and like put all the food in the back of an Uber and showed up and like they're like all right chef Eddie tell us what we have tonight and there were like 11 vegans two you know four vegetarians and like you know and it was a one long table and they wanted to serve it family silence I kind of just figured it out right and so it was just a lot of figuring it out. Like I'd never dated anybody before. Right like I just went on a bunch of first dates to be like I don't know what this is like as an adult who was only with one person before. I just like my curiosity was like an all time high. Like I just you know like I don't I I know that I had an apartment, but I was like literally never there, right? Because I just was like, Daiana, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: it was me in New York, like having some fun, And so that was the exploratory and fun side of it. But then in the quiet moments, I was like, this sucks. Right? Like that's where like I I was doing so many things to run away from sitting still and sitting with the loss. Right. And Cassandra, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: you know, I got into another relationship and you know and and rebounded hard. Right. Like like I proposed after a year. Like I was so determined to be get back to what I had that Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: I got into another relationship and I was like I was like, Man, do you wanna have kids? And she's like, I don't know. I was like, We should have kids. She's like, maybe. I was like, I was like, Do you want to get married? We should talk about like and let a year later I proposed and then unfortunately, it didn't pan out. So, you know, like my rebound was to go all the way to planning a wedding in Lake Como, Italy, right? Like that's how in how hard I was trying to get back to what I had. And Daiana, LMHC: Mm, mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: so it was another version of of like actually having to live with it when broke off that relationship and was again sitting without. the things that I, you know, had had, previously. And so it's it was it it really I don't I really don't think it was till after I broke broke off the engagement that I actually finally sat still. Right? That I actually finally sat with like I those are things that I want. At some point, those are things that I want. But I need to do some work to make sure that when those things present themselves, that I'm in a place to actually receive them. And not to force somebody into the boxes that I that are left open on my on my bingo card. Cassandra, LMHC: And so what I'm hearing is a lot of these experiences help kind of shape the identity of who you are today. Because you had to go through these grief moments. You had to l allow yourself to sit in those grief moments and almost accept who you were in that time as opposed to who you wanted to be. And that helped move you forward towards where you are today in way. So If I asked you what identity stand out for you right now as to who you've managed to become and what what matters to you now, where would we be setting? Daiana, LMHC: Well, what, Andy? I will wanna pause on that question and and remember that question. Because the story is not over yet. Like you didn't just go through this once. And I think that's gonna that answer is gonna come after this, right? Because you built a new company. And then you became a dad. Tell us how you became a dad. Andy Ellwood: Mm-hmm. Daiana, LMHC: And then there was more loss. So there is one more cycle, at least, right? before we get to who where you are now and who you are. Andy Ellwood: Yeah, yeah. But I think that that yeah, I'll try and weave the answer to both those questions 'cause it is it is something that, continued gratitude around became single again after after broken broken off engagement. I was like, okay, I I can't just jump right back in. Right. Like I've got I've got some space to hold I still do want to get married and I still do want to become a dad, but I want to be the person that can do that in a way that is actually good for everybody. And it's not just a I I need somebody to check that box. And so Yeah, there there were a lot of really incredible people in my life at that moment who had kind of like seen me flailing, right? And kind of like they just kinda hugged me. We're like, yo, dude, settle. Just just a little. Just just slowly roll just a little. And and I think that that being able to just like not be looking to to check boxes and to be okay with the fact, that, all right, I'm gonna be an old an older dad, right? I the community I grew up in, you know, every has kids, you know, done having kids by 30, right? And at this point I'm like in my late thirties, right? And I'm not in a relationship to have kids, right? And so I kind of like, I'm gonna be an older dad. Okay. Cool. Let's make sure we find the right, you know, if if I find a person who that is a great, you know, great fit for, great. But I'm I also wanna continue to build companies and be a part of this. And so you know, going into going into kind of the next chapter, I in my in my crazy wandering and and phonetic energy of of you know my early thirties was I took a fitness class out in in Montauk at the end of Long Island. And I thought the teacher was really amazing. And so up after the class I just was Hey, thanks so much to the class. This was incredible. Like, I, you know, would love to take another one of your classes. I don't take fitness classes. That's not my thing. But I was like, for her, I'll take her class. Like this, you know, like how do we stay in touch? And so that that was, you know, 2016. And and you know, I I asked her out a few times and it just never worked. but we stayed in t you know, like it it it was never a no, it was just like a not right now, like schedule just didn't work. And so at the end of twenty sixteen, I asked her out one more time and it didn't work again and I was I was like look I know we're both very busy how about this in three years when our lives have slowed down a little bit and we're both back in the city I'll take you out for a drink and she just wrote back like a thumbs up and then nothing happened and then I got engaged in in this other relationship I got out of the relationship and in 2019 three years later I saw on Instagram that she was opening her third dance studio in the city. And I just slid into her DMs on Instagram and I was like, I love seeing female entrepreneurs kicking ass. Looks like you're living your best life. And she wrote back, No three dots, like no waiting, just like, you're not doing so bad yourself. And I was like, She remembers who I am. And then I scrolled up and I was, I was like, my God, the my last message was, I'm gonna take you out for drinks. So I so I wrote her and I said, It looks if I'm reading our old messages correctly, I owe you a drink. And again, no three dots, no waiting. She just wrote back, it's about time you remember. Cassandra, LMHC: I love everything about this. Andy Ellwood: And so so we set up our first date and the day before, you know, I I I you know text her to confirm. I'm like, hey, just wanna you know, wanna make sure that tomorrow night's, still good for you. She's like, Yes. I I said, I can't believe it it took us actually took us three years to, finally get a drink. And she wrote back, I'm a Birkenbag and you just got off the wait list. Daiana, LMHC: Girl knows her value. Cassandra, LMHC: Ha ha Andy Ellwood: And and and that is my wife. And that is the that Cassandra, LMHC: That's amazing. Andy Ellwood: is the mother of my children. And meeting Maddie is the most magical thing that's ever happened to me in my life. And she opened up the door for me to be all of who I am, because I'm a lot. And I and I did and I I walked into that relationship saying, I'm gonna be a lot because that's actually who I am. I was I was trying to fit in boxes in other relationships. I was trying to fit in boxes not in relationships. But I just was like, I'm just gonna be f like fully Andy. Right? The you know, I picked my therapist because in my first session with her I was explaining something and I was debating whether it was her or or somebody else. And she said, I'm gonna stop you there. Is that what Andy thinks, or is that what Andyellwood.com thinks? And and in our first session, she realized that I I would I had my public persona and I had who Andy really was. And so I, you know, effectively said to Maddie, like, I'm gonna show up as fully Andy. And every decision that I make from this point forward is to be more full, fully Andy, to be more Andy, not AndyEllwoodcom. And so that's been the work that I've done over the past seven years with Maddie as my as my partner, is to fuse Andyello.com and Andy, right? To just like Like i if you meet me, you meet me. Right. There's not this Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: other version, right? and so to just be able to live into my authentic self. So much so that on our second date, I I was I was looking across the table at her own and was like, this is this is going like and and she and she goes, breast your cards. Cassandra, LMHC: Ha ha ha. Andy Ellwood: she grew up playing poker with her grandpa at the campsite and he would always tell her, Maddie, breast your cards. Like, don't show me your aces. She's like, I know you've got aces. Don't show them to me yet. Like, like breast your cards, like slow your Cassandra, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: roll. And, you know, and and it's just been the best experience of my entire life. she runs, she's number one body worker in New York City. she's somewhere between massage therapy and physical therapy. And it's just like, people are addicted to my wife. And, you know. Daiana, LMHC: I could imagine. Yeah. Andy Ellwood: And it's just been it's just it's so much fun to just see her becoming fully Maddie, right? And just knowing exactly who she is. And and the fact that we get to do that together is the greatest joy you could possibly have. Daiana, LMHC: New York met you where you were at back then and she met you exactly where you were at. Like you met your match. You met your match. That's amazing. Andy Ellwood: Hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. And and to kind of bring it a little bit full circle, like on a third or fourth date, I was like, Hey, do you want to do something Sunday morning? And she No, no, I'm actually going to church. And and I said I said, well, I I was actually gonna go to church also, but thought, you know, I knew I knew how busy your schedule is and just wondered if that was she goes, should we go to church together? And and it just was this really cool thing that like church is a part of our lives. It isn't our life. Right. But like we get to share a faith, background. We get to share, the foundations of how we perceive and think about the world are aligned. And and I think that that's just a really special special thing that, you know, when I kind of you know, there's the story of of the prodigal son that is is told, you know, about the the son who squanders his wealth and you know is and blows his trust fund and then you know is living in squalor and And you know, he thinks to himself, like, what am I doing? Even my my parent, my dad's servants live better than this. I should just go back and ask to be asked my dad to be a servant. But I think that the you know, and that's what's so you know, usually focused on is like, you know, this this repentant son and like you know, kind of like the really a little but the dad was never angry, right? The dad was so overjoyed when he saw his child come home. And the comedian Pete Holmes. says that the the the thing is just remembering who your dad is Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: is the is is so much of what the story is. R and you know, remember who your parent is, remembering who whose world you're a part of. And you know, and I think that that cuts across every belief, you know, it cuts across every religious, you know, text is is dad's not mad. And Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: that's such a cool thought, right? Like like now as a dad, there's literally nothing that Eloise could ever do to make me not like be super excited that she's that she comes home. And she's one, right? But like, Daiana, LMHC: No, yeah. Andy Ellwood: you know, like there's you know, there's a lot Cassandra, LMHC: Thank you. Andy Ellwood: of life that I still have to live as a as an old dad, but it gives me so much perspective, right? I was 43 when she was born. And you know, Maddie and I got married when I was forty. And, you know, and it's just it's just so much fun. And so, you know, last year, to kind of, you know, bring us to today, you know, I had the opportunity to to start a new company. And and it was you know, and I didn't take that lightly because I know how challenging it is because I've done it before, right? To you know, like most people should never be a founder. And it's a hor it's a horrible decision un unless it's exactly the right decision, right? Like there's all the reasons you shouldn't do it because it's just brutal and and trying to and being an unreasonable person that thinks that you have what it takes to bring something into this insane world that we live in that no one else could bring into the world is what you have to believe in order to be a founder. But if if that's the place that you find yourself and that's the opportunity that you see, then you just have to do it. And so that opportunity presented itself at the end of 2024. So I went to Maddie, who was three months pregnant, and I said, This opportunity is here. what do you think about us exploring that? and she's like, I can see that it's another chance for you to become even more who you are. Step into that role, you know, and move on from you know some of the things that you've been doing previously. But Let's make sure that we really you know line this up because that's gonna coincide with the birth of our child. But the other consideration was that my mom's health was was failing. And and so I was dealing with kind of both ends of like the Oreo life of of you know becoming a dad on one end and and my parents' health on the other end. And so last year in 2025, I I launched my company in April, I became a dad in July, and my mom passed away in October. Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: And And so, I'm a founder, I'm a father, and I'm a grieving son. And I'm able to be all three of those things because of the family that I have around me, and because of the friends that I have around me, and because of the people that I've been fortunate enough to recruit to join my company. twenty twenty-five was another three Daiana, LMHC: Yes. Andy Ellwood: P, another, you know, three things all at the same time. But Cassandra, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: very grateful that two of them were exciting, you know, starting a new company and becoming a dad. But Daiana, LMHC: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: the loss of my mom losing her battle with Alzheimer's. she was only Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: 71, you know, just so very, very early, was really, really tough to hold at the exact same time. My Daiana, LMHC: Maybe. Andy Ellwood: daughter is named Eloise, and we call her Ellie after my mom, whose name was Ellen. And Eloise Daiana, LMHC: Mm, mm. Andy Ellwood: got to meet grandma Ellen the day before Grandma Ellen died. Cassandra, LMHC: Well Andy Ellwood: she she met she met her on her you know they met on her deathbed. And my mom opened her eyes and at that point she sh she was nonverbal, but she she knew. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: She knew that you know she knew who Eloise was and and Eloise just got to snuggle with her grandma for a bit. And so Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: that was one of the most most powerful moments of of my life Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: was to see the the entire circle of life happening. And you know, when Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: we said goodbye and drove to the airport, mom held on until all of us were on on our various planes. All our sibl all the siblings had flown back, driven back. And when we all had left the room, she left this earth. And Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: my mom was a a PE teacher a camp counselor and her rule was quit while everyone's still having fun. Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: And that's exactly what she did. She Daiana, LMHC: Yes. Andy Ellwood: she made sure that we were all still having fun, that we all got the chance to to be ch in true community together in that room. And then when we s walked out, she said, Okay, we're done and and left this earth. And so pretty Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: incredible, you know, to just be able to witness that moment and to but also to just be fully present for it, you know, to know that hey, that this is you know the the high highs and the low lows at the same time. But Daiana, LMHC: Mm hmm. At the same time. Andy Ellwood: that I know more than anything else is that all of us have what it takes to meet those moments right now. You don't need anything else. Nothing else. You already possess the ability to be in the high highs and to be in the low lows. You have a 1,000% success rate of making it through the hardest days. Daiana, LMHC: That is I'm just taking it in. Cassandra, LMHC: I gotta say, you've given me goosebumps more than one time during this conversation Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Cassandra, LMHC: because there there's just so much resilience that that comes through. And even in the highest highs and the lowest lows, like there's just this consistent andiness that comes out. And it's it's Andy Ellwood: Ha ha ha. Cassandra, LMHC: whatever you were at that point in time was exactly what you needed to be. That's a beautiful message. Thank you for that. Daiana, LMHC: I yeah. my dad recently passed and I've been listening to a lot of different things and something that I have seen in my life is that people say, they waited until they saw their their son, their daughter, and then they they left. And there was actually biological reasons for that, And there's no coincidence that after seeing her grandbaby and her family and seeing that they're okay, that that gave her the peace, right, to to go. the same thing happened with my dad, my grandfather. And I just hear, like when you go through something, you start hearing stories people share with you They know that they're loved and and that's why I truly believe that we're just here to love. we're here to love and and be loved. Andy Ellwood: Yeah, yeah. I mentioned just insatiable curiosity. it's it's my favorite way to walk through the world. Is you know, the person that I'm interacting with right now knows something about this world that I don't. The person I'm interacting with right now is the best in the world at something that I'm not. They're the best at being them. Like they're the only Daiana, LMHC: Lesson. Andy Ellwood: person who is one thousand percent successful at being that person and and that person is shaped by all of the stories that I don't know. And if they sh if they offer me one of those stories, how cool. You know? Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: people walk around with headphones in and you know on their phones all the time and and I don't like I I don't listen to anything when I walk, you know, when I commute, like Daiana, LMHC: Mm. Andy Ellwood: I just like watch the world happen and it's like Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: like It's the coolest show you could possibly watch. 'cause it's happening like right in front of you. IRL is happening right now, Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: I still love putting myself in situations that I I don't know what's gonna happen next and I don't know where it's gonna lead. and that curiosity has served me well and I think it's something that I I hope to instill in my daughter. Cassandra, LMHC: the coolest thing about having toddlers is everything is brand new for them. So you're gonna get to enjoy all of these first time, first seas, first experiences with this tiny little person who's never seen anything before. Andy Ellwood: Yeah. Yep. Cassandra, LMHC: It's Andy Ellwood: It's ev ev every day is just so so exciting and you know, like took her to the beach last weekend and like you know, we went in the ocean, you know, and and she just like just like big eyes and she's just like, my gosh, what is this? You know, and you know, she she's clinging to you know, to my arm and to my to my neck, you know, as as we get a little bit deeper in the water gets a little bit colder and and it's just like just this like like how cool that this soul chose me as her dad, like wow. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Andy Ellwood: Just so so grateful. Daiana, LMHC: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, like you were saying, like you're an older dad, but I think there's so many gifts in that because she she was waiting for this version of Andy, the version who who walks around without headphones, who takes in life, who who has learned. a thread in this, in all that you have said, is that each step you have been willing to to get up and try again to learn. I think you had mentioned in your in your pre-interview about an ego death. I'm sure there has been many ego deaths throughout the whole story because it needs to not be all about you. And it's like, okay, like what is my contribution? What can I do? You mentioned like not checking off boxes, that didn't make me happy. Trying to create boxes that I think are the right boxes does not work for you. Andy Ellwood: Is Daiana, LMHC: And it's Andy Ellwood: it? Daiana, LMHC: just like w you've then found like who you really are and created this world that's so aligned and and you didn't I think there is a lot of judgment on ourselves, like if we're good, if we're bad, if we're good enough. And Andy Ellwood: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Daiana, LMHC: I think that's also time and age and experience that is just like, well, can I be, andyeldwood.com and Andy, how can I bring those together? Because they're actually both good. Sometimes we think that one is bad. Or it's not the better version, but to Andy Ellwood: Yeah. Yeah. Daiana, LMHC: integrate all that. So your little girl just needed you now. So you're at the perfect age to be a tag. Yeah. Andy Ellwood: I love that. I love that. Yeah, thank you for that. Daiana, LMHC: Yeah. you did share some of your takeaways, but we come to this part of the show that I say is my favorite part, we say it's our favorite part because life is hard. And there is so much to learn, as you said, and there's so much that we get from it. So we wrap up the show with the Living Loss Lessons. Cassandra, LMHC: This is the part of the show where like we or the guest leaves with a tangible tool or a mindset shift because, you know, it's not about fixing the grief. It's about finding the strength to carry it. Daiana, LMHC: Yeah, so Andy, looking back at everything we've talked about, what is one or two, three, whatever amount of lessons you'd like to leave our listeners with today? Andy Ellwood: There's this story of the two lumberjacks in the woods. And one of them's an older lumberjack and the other one's like the young whippersnapper who's like, on his mission trying to like grow in this world. the younger lumberjack like says, we should do a chop-off, see see who's really the king of the woods. And the older lumberjack's like, Yeah, sure, let you know, four hours on the clock, let's see who can cut down the most trees. And they press go, and the young man, like full full of youth and vitality, just is going to town and looks like there's no way anybody's gonna stop him. And he and he just goes straight hardcore for four hours. And he's feeling very confident because ever every 30 minutes or so he looks over and sees the old lumberjack you know taking a break, leaning, you know, sitting down, leaning up against a tree. And at the end, they count the number of trees, and the older lumberjack almost doubled the amount that the younger lumberjack did. And the young younger lumberjack, cries, you know, there's no way, like, that's impossible. Like, I saw you, you were taking breaks underneath the tree. And the old lumberjack says, No, I wasn't. I was sharpening my axe. And I think that that lesson now is one that I sit with a lot. Is just because you're not chopping wood, just because you're not swinging all of the time. You might just be sharpening your axe and being able to sit with those moments where you're you're just doing what you need to do to make sure you're as sharp as you need to be to go into the next thing that you do is the work, is the productivity, is what needs to happen. and I think that it's the part that in the the world that is 24-7 All of the time. There's always somebody who's willing to try and capture your attention and monetize it across social media, across entertainment. it just taking times to find your version of stillness and sharpening your axe so that you can show up as fully who you are is is probably the greatest gift you can give to yourself, but even more so to the world. it feels selfish to take a day for yourself. It feels selfish to indulge in, retreat or, for some people therapy or even just journaling, right? All of those things are things that are that are your gift to you, that is in fact a gift to everybody else. And I think that if more people took a little bit of time to take the break and sharpen the axe, we'd we'd all see a a much better version of the world and we'd all be able to show up more fully alive in ourselves and more fully alive for for those around us. Daiana, LMHC: Yes. I don't know if you noticed, but that that brought the tears for me because I feel like I needed I need that message. and I love that analogy of sharpening the axe because with this grief as you've gone through before, it has definitely slowed me down. And it came in a year where I had all the momentum, all the plans to to scale and all of these things. Andy Ellwood: Ha ha. Daiana, LMHC: And I've been hardcore struggling with that because not that I don't deserve feel like I don't deserve rest. is just that to a fault I thrive in producing and and doing and I know you can relate. So to be almost forced to slow down, I tell I told Cassandra the other day, I feel like I have a brain injury and she's like, Yeah, 'cause you kinda do. And I'm like, Yeah, I kinda do. And Andy Ellwood: Yeah. Yeah. Daiana, LMHC: and I have been sharpening, my axe and in refining the things that I've been working on and forced to slow down with. So thank you. I'm sure that there's so many people that are gonna benefit from that message, but I truly like that hit me really hard. Andy Ellwood: I'm glad. I'm glad. Yeah. my wife being a body worker, your your body will give you signs that you need to slow down and and you can listen to them and slow down in incremental pieces, or your body will slow you down and take you out completely. Right? Like you can either listen to it, and you can acknowledge, wow, I you know what, I gotta take the rest of the day. You know, I need two hours to read a book, call a friend. Do nothing. Touch grass. Right. or you're gonna be out for two weeks, right? you can do two hours now, or you can do two weeks later. And you don't get to pick the two weeks. You get to you get to pick the two hours. it's like pretty vital, right? To that if your body's giving you a hint, right? Like your body keeps score. That's something my wife says a lot, you can you can push it, it'll it is very resilient, but only to a point. And it'll break if you if you don't give it what it needs. And and I think that just the awareness of that, you know, knowing that like yeah, you've gone through a tragedy. Like, you know, y you might just need to call out on Friday. Daiana, LMHC: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I think I do obey. I'm listening to my body, but many times I'm a toddler throwing a tantrum 'cause I don't Cassandra, LMHC: Yeah. Andy Ellwood: Yeah. Daiana, LMHC: want to. But no, Andy Ellwood: Hundred percent. Daiana, LMHC: I know. And it was just the fact that the waiting for three years to be in a relationship with your wife also shows that that this might not be the right time that you that there is this becoming that needs to happen to give the to get the gift that God has for you because his plans are always much better. So that's also exciting knowing that we wait, we do our part, and good things will come. Andy Ellwood: Absolutely. Daiana, LMHC: Cassandra, did you have any last words or anything to share before we go? Cassandra, LMHC: I just know that as a person who wears a lot of different hats, like even giving myself the freedom to take those moments and allow for that time is incredibly challenging. So it's almost like I'm being reminded that it's okay and you don't have to feel guilty. It's okay if to take the time that you need. It's it's allowable and the world's not gonna collapse. In fact, it'll probably be a little bit better for it. So thank you for that message and that reminder because it also hit me in the feelings. Like Stop seeing this. Stop seeing me, sir. So Daiana, LMHC: No, no, no. Cassandra, LMHC: thank you for that. Daiana, LMHC: Well, thank you, Andy. Thank you, Cassandra. I'm so happy for this episode. But I'm really glad that you shared this with us and we're feel very privileged to have heard it. And we'll Andy Ellwood: Yeah, well thanks thanks for thank you for creating the space. Daiana, LMHC: Yeah. All right guys, we'll catch you next time on The Living Loss.