Latest / GOOD CEOs / Ryan Honey: Why Residence Is Building a Different Path

Transcript

Ryan Honey: Why Residence Is Building a Different Path · GOOD CEOs

• Ollie: Hello and welcome back to Good CEOs. Today we're joined by Ryan Honey, who is the CEO and founder of BUCK and also Residence who, if you don't know, are the people that own OK Cool, It's Nice That, Giant Anne, and many, many more. The thing that I think people don't know about Ryan and Residence is number one, how deeply lovely everybody is that works there. And they have this very unique Perception in the industry of the business that everyone wants to sell their company to because it's a company that is built around very strong values. And I wanted to personally get into that with Ryan to understand: is it true? or is it all a lie? And it definitely is not a lie, it is entirely true. We cover everything from how it all began, work that he's most proud of. where they're going next, AI, robotics. We even get into some other weird shit, which you're gonna have to listen to towards the end. I ask Ryan to make three predictions, he makes three. One of them kind of blows my mind. I don't I really hope one of them either doesn't become true or does become true. I'm not sure which side I'm on. But it's pretty wild and you have to listen to the end to hear that. So I really hope you enjoy this. So much to be covered and let's get into it. There'll be some people listening to this that may know who you are, may not know who you are. ⁓ I guess formally before residence, you were the BUCK founder, CEO. ⁓ Ran BUCK for 25 years, I want to say, nearly now. ryan honey: Pretty close, yeah. Twenty three. Ollie: pretty close to 25 years. And then you've evolved and gone on to grow a company which we're going to get into and understand what residence stands for. I think the headline that I would use to describe residence, particularly in this market when we're seeing lots of M&A happening and lots of holding companies shrinking or buying other holding companies, every single person that I know that has come into contact with residence seems to say how there is this undeniable passion and creativity, but also friendliness. And speaking to people like Alex Beck and Jolyon and Liz, they are the only people I've ever spoken to where they're like, this has been the most gentle and wonderful acquisition process we could ever imagine. So I guess I'm here to understand what the hell's going on there. How have you managed to do that? ⁓ And we will get into that part of the podcast. ⁓ I want to start with the work. So I want to go kind of maybe back before Residence became Residence. Is there a piece of work that made you become famous or that you're most proud of? back in the BUCK original BUCK days. ryan honey: yeah, I mean I think, you know, so originally I was a creative, right? I was the original creative director of BUCK and I was, you know, on the box for many years. and the work that I think I'm most proud of there was the work that had meaning. a lot of work for for charity organizations, Good books is a good example of that. that work probably is what really put us on on the map. and then the work for Childline out of the UK, also super proud of that. using, you know, our skills and and art to to reach people and make a difference, I guess. but I would say also that, you know. It's been 10 years probably since I've like even had a say in creative. Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: and and the work that I'm most proud of now is really you know creating a framework, if you will, that is about nurturing creatives and their careers and allowing them to Do the thing that they're so passionate about, putting beautiful things into the world and and being able to you know witness people who have been with us for 20 plus years, you know, raise families, buy houses, on their passion. that for me is like the thing that I'm most proud of. Ollie: How, like, because those are lovely words, the actions that then live up to that, always find are different. If every agency founder that ends up scaling their business would love to achieve this, and I mean this sincerely, that it seems like you have managed to do that, how, is there anything strategically or even from a cultural perspective that you have? stuck to or even said no to in doing this that has maintained that because most companies when they scale they have to start sacrificing something. What is it that you've guess sacrificed to maintain that level of culture and environment if you were to start thriving or carry on thriving into parenthood and house ownership and all that sort of stuff? ryan honey: I mean empathy, caring. And then surrounding yourself with people who share your values. You know, it's it's I you know, we started off as three people and grew the business to four hundred and fifty at BUCK. And it's it's you know, a constantly you know pivoting, constantly collaborating, no ego, let's just you know, all which is to create great work and take care of each other. And I think that's that's permeated through all of the businesses. Ollie: Yeah, it does feel like that as well. It's almost like the casting of the businesses that you've acquired are generally very kind and nice people. If anyone's not met Alex Beck, you couldn't have much nicer than Alex Liz or Jolyon. These are the people that I know really ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: well. So it's almost like the casting of, if you're going to join us, you can't be a dick and you can't have an ego, you can a class. ryan honey: Yeah, I always like look at it like would I let them stay at my house? Ollie: Okay. Wow, I'm I'm doing that night with my own team now. So, okay, I want to move into residence and how this happened because, okay, you're 400 plus people at BUCK. Why did you decide to move away from just being BUCK and then into residence? What was the moment that made you think this could be more but we can't do it all under one brand? ryan honey: ⁓ most of our clients at BUCK the majority are are tech companies. ⁓ And we, you know, b working directly with tech companies, they're asking us to do this, do that, and we, you know, started building teams ⁓ to service them. But then they asked for things that are like experiential or things that, you know, media or or digital and You know, we could hire in for that stuff, but what we found is that it's the quality was compromised, right? Because we're so used to doing the thing we do at the highest level, and then they ask us to do something, it's like, we could try. You know, and it Ollie: Yes. ryan honey: so So it that was like the sort of impetus for it was like, okay, how do we how do we service these relationships and and these clients at the highest level? And then meanwhile, we got a call from someone who will not be named and asked us to join their network. And we hadn't we hadn't really thought about it before, like, okay, you know, and went through the process, all the meetings and They put a huge check on the table, and it was like, But but at the at the same time, you know, we were like, we have spent our entire adult careers building this thing that's so precious to us. Handing it over to somebody else for money just doesn't feel right. And we also realized that they didn't really share our values, right? Our values are about the quality of the work and the people. And I we just couldn't do it. But We were like, what if we did what they're doing based on our own value system? and you know, Wade, our CFO, was like, we can do that. I'm like, how? Ollie: Thank ryan honey: How the hell do you do that? and he concocted a plan and we we we borrowed some money from a bank and and went out and started to merge in, you know, companies that we really respected and and we knew well. Starting with, you know, now Acronim, formerly VT Pro, and Giant Ant. and then, you know, just kept on going. And it was like, who do we in the industry, who do we respect? Who shares our values? And then we just started, you know, going through it and it and then it sort of evolved to, you know, what else do we need? and in the network to t to do the thing for our clients that that they're asking of us. And then that's when we got into social, et cetera, with okay, cool and and gate maker. Ollie: But it's quite rare because normally the old playbook would have been, you know... back in the WPP and publicist founding days, the hero business would have been a creative agency or an ad agency for want of a better phrase. Now you're starting to see private equity money backing very design focused businesses like like a Coto or even, know, like a Collins or Salk and a strategic consultancy style business. I imagine the thinking around that is because they will be best networked at the most senior level. So it's trickled down, Greece, ideally, right? If I'm going to speak to the CEO, hopefully they'll trust me to speak to the CMO and I can bring in a company like that. But starting in animation, how does that get to the top table? How does that get to the point of advising companies so much so that they then they trust you over an ad agency or a design company, design branding agency sort of thing? What happened there and how did that happen? ryan honey: Hmm. That's a interesting question. We w we evolved to be a lot more than an a animation studio, right? Four hundred and fifty Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: people, we're not just making animation. we design systems and and we got into branding and and and that, but it's really about, you know, co creation with our clients and that sort of bond, if you will, or that trust that is built around solving problems for them, right? at BUCK we were like just extremely nimble. like what is the what is the problem at hand here? How do we solve this problem for them? AI voice brief and it's like okay so let's bring in a l linguistics person. and bring Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: in that person and and pair them with like you know three crazy creative directors that do amazing work and see what happens. it's just people being weird, really. Ollie: The structure of it is interesting because you could have gone for You know, where we're building sort of I guess yeah, it's a holding company, right? But instead you've gone for a I guess house of brands kind of style? Is that the why why was that the approach over let's call this thing one thing and then integrate everybody into one one offering? ryan honey: Yeah, I mean it was it's a combination of things, but I would say like when you know I talked about that process where someone tried to merge us into their network, and during that process they were like, yeah, you could keep keep your brand. And then at the very end they were like, No, no, no. N you're gonna become us. and we were like, Ooh and so, you know, you creative companies these founders spend their lives developing something that is so precious to them and their their identity is all wrapped up in that. And you know, we what we want is we want entrepreneurial energy coming into the network, right? We don't want to like take away from people or like make them feel like they're not valuable. You know? And so th th there's that part of it. But then this other part is that like I put myself in a client's shoes, right? And I want to do something impactful. Work that's super important for me and for my career. I'm not gonna go hire the homogenized, like, giant company that does everything. You know, I I wanna have like, okay, who's the best? what we're trying to do is build this network of companies that are the best at what they do. And then it really the sort of integration of all of them is like if the clients have other stuff they want to do, we're not forcing it, we're not forcing people to work together. but it is, you know, really centered around like what is the best way to continuously make the best work. and what we have found is that having the founders invested, making them feel special, harnessing that energy for collaboration is really the the way forward, not like, okay, now you're called BUCK or whatever. Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: yeah. Even if we do even if like the in the case of giant ant, right, like we were like, okay We kind of do the same thing you know Jay and I were we're very good friends and and they're a small studio. I'm Canadian, so I was like, okay, you know, let's bring in Giant Ant and and you know because they do amazing stuff. and it we we we talked about it like okay, maybe they should be BUCK Vancouver, but The conversation lasted for like a year and then we were like, Yeah, that's that sucks. And ⁓ Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: you just stay Giant Ant ⁓ Ollie: Why why does it why does it suck? Do you think is it more just like they've spent all this time building this thing that matters to them and it would ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: feel like you're almost deleting that from existence in a way? ryan honey: Exactly. And and you know, everyone who works there is like their identity is like I work at Giant Ant, you know? I Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: mean it's it's like also and it's goes back to what I was saying before, which is that, you know, when someone wanted to rename us, I was like, really? Why would you do that? Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: You know, and it and the the motivation is is really just about money, right? And that's the part that irks me about it as well. Ollie: But okay, I want to know like, has there been a moment since it's been since you've had this residence thing or you've turned around and gone like, aha, okay, this is why this is why we've done it. ryan honey: Yeah, I mean, we built this out of a need, right? As I mentioned before. there was a need from our our clients. And I think it has been a process of education. We're educating our clients on like what we can do as a network for them. And then in the past eight, nine months probably, really seeing an uptick in like, okay, like tell me more. And can I work across five companies? Can I, you know, have cohesive output. cross experience, digital design, design systems, branding, etc. and companies that that that trust each other, right? And that's the the thing that like I think is the the most successful. And it wasn't necessarily like our intention out of the gate. And people always talk about vision and stuff. And and I think we we just kind of rolled into this with like, okay, this seems like it it's it's happening. We should do this. And then Eventually we saw, okay, like, you know, all these in-house teams, they don't wanna go to you know, seven different companies that are trying to eat each other's lunch and like you Ollie: Mm. ryan honey: know and and and not collaborating with they wanna have like these specialists who trust each other. who are going to, you know, collaborate, have conversations, share information with each other. And then, you know, like in in the case of one of our largest, I'm not gonna mention clients, but the one of our largest enterprise clients who's working across five companies. we then, you know, brought in people at the residence level to be head of client services, head of brand partnerships, and really kind of manage all of that at the residence level so they know what's happening in every every company. Ollie: Smart. cause so many times you see these groups forming and then there's I I always think there's an incentive problem. Who's that? It's someone very wise. Maybe it was Warren Buffett that said, Show me an incentive and I'll show you an outcome. And it does feel like a lot of the time in in in some of these holding companies that been put together, the incentive is like ⁓ if you guys don't win, you don't win. There's not this group mentality of, you know, refer people business and everyone's doing well out of that from an incentivization perspective. Have you ⁓ incentivized the the shareholders within within each of the companies differently to like a a holding co I guess? ryan honey: we don't we have rules like we don't compete against each other ever. Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: So it's like if someone comes in and is like, I want this company and this company to pitch. No. We'll pitch together, but not separate. Yeah. Ollie: Against. Yeah. Fair enough. I want to move into imagining you were a founder of a company. Right. So when the okay cool deal happened, a lot of my friends that ran, you know, social first creative agencies were like, that's the kind of business that I'd love to kind of sell to. So I do think you're going to start to have a bit of a cue forming around of different agency founders going, How can I be part of this thing? So I want you to imagine you're speaking to that founder that is scaling They can't be. Maybe they've just gone beyond a million EBIT and they would one day want to be part of the residence family. What what advice would you give to that founder in what to focus on and what not to focus on, perhaps? ryan honey: I mean to focus on the I mean it's it goes back to the values, right? So it's like just focus on the work and the people and you know I I for me, you know, in the the companies that we choose and and the relationships that we build, it's really about the founders and are they the right people, you know, like I said, are can I can they stay at my house? Do I enjoy seeing them? You know, like and and you know, we're having our AGM all group meeting in in in Amsterdam in a week. And Ollie: Nice. ryan honey: it's just like I'm genuinely excited to go hang out with these people, you know, and they're just all smart and awesome and so kind and like it's it's it's amazing. Right? And that and that's I think I guess that's not even really advice, but it it's you know, but if you if you fit the bill and you and you focus on your values, then yeah, maybe. Ollie: I think I get the sense that it's like the casting call is Be world class at one thing, at least be a specialist in something. if we look at the history of Bach, it was animation. Obviously, that grew into everything design. If it if you look at, okay, cool, it's being social first and it's understanding how social works. Not try not trying to say that you do design and 3D and animation social first. But aside that, also don't be a dick and be nice to be around and and focus ryan honey: Okay. Ollie: on the growth of the people with the values sort of clung close to your chest, because I think that's the hard thing. A lot of companies as they're building and they're growing and they're trying to become acquirable, they do this thing where they kind of leak into different capabilities. Like you were saying, like, do we say yes to social? Okay, we'll give it a try, but it's nowhere near as good as what we do in in this part of the world. I think that's the hard thing. Is like, do you stick to the thing that you have set out to do? Or do you start to spread your base and move into other areas perhaps that you're not as much of a specialist in? Does that make you less acquirable? Does that make you less interesting? it's a hard mark, because I think your your goal is to try and get your client to make incredible work, but also ideally spend more money with your business. I guess that the question here is like, where do you where do you draw the line? Where do you say like it's fine to evolve, but there's also a point where you have to understand if you're the specialist or not? ryan honey: Yeah. No, I think that's a that's a good point. I would say that and I have talked to companies who are like, we do all these things and it's just too much. You know, it's like, okay I I don't really understand if you do it well or not and you Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: seem like spread thin and you know, it's it's I would much prefer like a healthy business that that is laser focused on on the one thing they're good at. Yeah. Ollie: Yeah. You speak about I guess creative sustainability. What does that mean in practice? ryan honey: Well it's kind two things. the first is you know, people's careers in the creative industry, if it's the storytellers or the producers or the designers, et cetera, et cetera, everyone else in between creating a sustainable culture for them. and that's kinda what I spoke to before. But the other side of it is like set up sustainable culture that they can thrive in and and do what they're passionate about and make great work. It's not, I'm sure people will say this all the time, but like ⁓ creating the thing that you're most proud of in ⁓ in your professional career at BUCK or ⁓ Residence But the other part of it is opportunity. And so I think, sustainable creative culture is really about us investing in creative opportunity, when there's a chance. and that could be time, it could be money. and there's many, many examples of things we have done that We lost money on in order to create opportunity for our people. And that's how you attract and retain talents, and you know, again, like the best work of their lives, if it's love, death, and robots, or like a self-published video game or or or whatever. We're trying to make sure that these people feel creatively fulfilled and also stay curious, you know. Ollie: I wanna move into into the state of play now. And obviously twenty-five years of running a business, specifically in this part of the industry. Have you felt anything that's majorly changed? Particularly with like what clients are coming to you now? Is there anything that they, you know, would have been so popular five, ten years ago where that's just completely fallen apart or away from where the value is now? ryan honey: Yeah, I mean you know, five years, twenty one. I would say, Silicon Valley started doing project-based work in-housing in like 2014, 15, right? And that has permeated over to everybody else. Like we're working with financial institutions, consumer goods, like it's it's you know, automotive, like the there really the the shift has it's shifted to our in-house team wants to work directly with the people making the work. versus going through some people who are more like idea people who then hire somebody else that they don't have connection with. You know, it's it that that's the biggest change for me is is and I I would say that we're I don't know, it's it's like ninety percent of our work is direct to brand across everybody, you know? And only times we work with agencies is when there's like a really great creative opportunity. Yeah. Ollie: We can't do a whole podcast and not mention AI. Obviously you guys heavily, you know, originally in in production. But is there is there a part the way you're seeing AI genuinely impacting what you do now? And I also sorry, I've got a deeper question here, but like I want someone to answer this question around top line generation. I hear so much stuff around efficiencies and time-saving things. Have you seen anything in generation, like something that is generating new opportunities or new revenue streams or you know, or are you majorly seeing it in more time saving in the bottom line? ryan honey: we've developed some AI tools and stuff for our clients, and it's really centered around the work that we don't want to do. Ollie: Right. ryan honey: It's like, okay, we got this tool for you, like we'll do all the fun stuff, and then you just had to take it over there and and and and and you you Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: can put your product manager on it and they can pump out stuff all the time. So I mean there's that. I you know th this this conversation about AI, it's getting a little a little tired. It's you know, it's it's a tool. It's a tool for humans who are gonna connect with humans. Like no one wants to connect with a robot. You know, like it's just not it's not sexy, it's not interesting. every time I even think that the like the person on the other side of the phone's a robot, I'm like, ugh god. Ollie: Yeah. It feels weird. Remember that it makes you think when we're you know when we had this whole web three moment? Did you get sucked up in that, by the way? Because it was like nobody really stopped for a moment to think, are you just gonna be in your living room with a with a thing on your head instead of going to a fair like to a gig? Like, is that what web three is gonna be? And I think people st I reckon it must have caught fire just because like we were at home for so long and you you you you weren't really doing things like going to gigs or going away. So maybe the idea of having it in your living room was just it's it was a nice idea. But again, when you catch yourself with AI, as soon as you feel like it's not real, our bullshit detectors are so good now. Like you can smell it in someone's writing. If you see the dash, you're like, okay, now that's gonna be AI again. Like it's but if that's happening ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: in like in communications, in customer service, like the work, if people spot AI in the work, I does that not just like remove my god, what's the word? Jankiness. You want you ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: kind of need the human error jankiness to kind of believe something now, I find. ryan honey: Yeah, I mean stop motion's having a a resurgence right now. I mean I think we we the the way that we utilize it is more for ideation. You know, just like super fast i ideation, like, okay. And also to It allows us to include our clients a little more in the conversation, right? before it was like, I'm gonna create an image and it would take frickin' a week to create an image and then be like, Okay, here's the image, and they'd be like, I dum I guess I like it. Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: That cost me a lot of money. but now it's like, okay, let's let's show you a bunch of stuff, and then you're like, okay, that that is where my head is at, and then you're like, Okay, now we're gonna take that as direction and we're gonna go Yeah. Ollie: It's kinda like scamping. I hear like a value in scamping, like a quick, you know, here's not it's not this is not how it's gonna look in entirely, but like here's a rough idea of where we're going. ryan honey: Yeah. Scalping. Is that like a British term? I don't know like Ollie: no, so yeah, you used to have like in back in the old Adlan days, you'd have the art director and they would scamp an idea. Like it would just ryan honey: screen. Ollie: be like scam yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, like scribble an idea and then you'd show that to the design and then they would mock that thing up. And it feels like we're kind of in like the scamping era of of AI tools. ryan honey: Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's it's it's a tool. It's just a tool. Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: It's like I you know, I I always think about it like Back when we started, there was a million dollar flame machine that like, you know, cost whatever thousands of dollars an hour, and then all of a sudden After Effects came and we were like on our G fours, like doing the same thing. You know. it just it it changed the game, but it really made it better, to be honest. Like it just Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: made it so you could be more iterative. make better work. I do think that is going to be the outcome is like it's still gonna be in the hands of humans and we're not going to just create with it, but we're able to ideate faster and create better work, I would say. Ollie: Yeah. Are you are you seeing any parts of the industry getting less valuable that perhaps would have been? ryan honey: Yeah, I mean I think it's just you know, it's what ever everyone says. but like it it's it's you know, it's the bottom. It's the it's the like just the iterating of assets, thousands of this, thousands of that, like and also I think, you know, it's it's startups, and people who don't value creativity who are just like Using it to get on the board yeah. it's not the sexy work, Ollie: Yeah, I think. ryan honey: you it's like it's it's I always say it's a like if you spent whatever, you're a tech company, you spent however many millions on creating a product and then you're gonna like go to AI to like do that. like to launch the product and and be like, Okay, I trust this robot to do this or, you know, like actually spend the money so you don't get fired Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: on the best creative agency there is, you know. Ollie: It's that thing nobody gets fired for hiring IBM. It's now like the opposite of ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: that. So okay, I want one last question on like residence, which is like directionally where does it end? can you see five years away from now? And is there a way that you're measuring the destination that you want to arrive at? Is there a thing in your mind that you want to get to? or are we free flowing until whenever? ryan honey: No, I mean we have a plan. what I would say is that everybody else in this in this industry is gonna have to pivot. Right? Ollie: Mm. ryan honey: It's just like it's not the same world it used to be. And to build what w we have built is impossible. ⁓ You know, and without like twenty-five years of doing it and all the relationships and all of the artists and and you know, you can't just like I'm gonna do this now. Like I'm I it's Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: a holding company I I think I'm just gonna go make this thing and and and service our clients, like no, it's not gonna happen. So I do feel like the industry is going to recognize that at a certain point. in the next three to four years ⁓ and our value will be very high as like the future of marketing services. And so, you know, there's there's a little bit of financial motivation, ⁓ but also we wanna protect what we've built. And for the for the very reasons, you know, we didn't sell to someone in the beginning. It's like the values have to be there. And so we gotta find a home for us where it it can be intact and live on based on on our on our values. that's the hope. I you know I'm not getting any younger over here, so Ollie: Yeah. None of us are. It gets you all. I'm trying to imagine like the the style of company 'cause it won't be like another it wouldn't be a holding I mean, never say never, but based on what you're saying around values, based on like who residence ⁓ are and everything that you built this company around. I can't imagine there being like a very a classic trade kind of situation. ⁓ maybe more I I guess either it's PE again or or or you look at like Could it be a Netflix, could it be Universal Studios, could it be, you know, more on that side where there's perhaps things being built out in IP and you know, more joint ventury kind of situations. It's interesting because there's you guys will reach a a pretty large, you know, you'll you'll be you'll be in a very large position that I don't know how many classic, you know, sort of groups would then be at that that point. So it w it will have to look different to what's been out there already. Which is exciting. I ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: that's pretty cool. ryan honey: Yeah. I mean we're still in, you know, like build phase and and I think bringing on Game Maker just recently was was a huge piece for us. and we're gonna spend the next year just like really grinding and and working together and collaborating and then we may do some more acquisitions possibly, you know, kind of next year. You know, we also don't want get too big is there. Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: That's that's a thing of like if you get too big then all of a sudden your options they shrink. Yeah. Ollie: Yeah. It's funny, there's there is like a Goldilocks kind of situation. I was speaking to someone that runs like a D to C brand and there's this thing, I forget the number, I think it's either fifty million or like forty nine million or ninety nine million where A Unilever or like a PNG won't look at you if you've scaled to that point. There's like a really awkward number where all ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: the all the kind of efficiencies you've you've kind of taken them up. That's what they would have gained from. So there's actually like there's no point buying you at this level. You know, cut either come to us when you're double the size or when you're half the size, but you've got to ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: this weird size, which is unbuyable. It's really strange. ryan honey: Yeah, I've seen it. it's it and that's definitely top of mind. So we're you know, y you mentioned a num a number there that we're kind of like flirting with. I w I won't Ollie: Yeah. Okay. Okay. And and last on the on the acquisition thing, is there like anything clearly not in this group that you that you're like looking at or considering? Because at the moment I can see creator, I can see design, media I mean there's you cover a lot of the marketing services suite. I'm trying to work out where there would be perhaps a gap. ryan honey: Yeah, I mean I think, you know, we've flirted with like campaign agency style with like a a a unique one, like something very unique. that is, almost future proof. so we flirted with that and then PR we flirted with as well. but you know, I think again, right now we're just we've got the major pieces and we're just gonna like Ollie: Yeah, just that. ryan honey: head down Ollie: Nice. Okay, ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: let's we're gonna move into your predictions that you've very carefully prepared. I'm excited. we're gonna move into prediction number one if we can. ryan honey: so you know, I think there's certainly some interesting things happening in the creator influencer. spoke with Ashton and Liz about sort of the future of of that business and the creator economy and they had some interesting insights that I wanted to share. one is that creators slash influencers will license their likeness to your robots in your house. And so So say like let's just say it's a chef, right? Jose Andre, whatever. He for a hundred dollars you can download his likeness and he can make you a meal with your robot. Ollie: What the fuck? Do you ever watch The Simpsons where they there was a robot in the house and then they it had like a celebrity voice and you could pick whichever one? We're like in that episode of The Simpsons, they've done it again. They've called That is mental. ryan honey: yeah. Ollie: Well, like soon? well and like do we need robots to be to be in the house? Are we talking ryan honey: ⁓ Super soon super soon.. ⁓ Ollie: like Alexa would guide us or yeah, what are we what are we we're talking ryan honey: I I think he would have conversations with Jose Andre and he would, you know, his his likeness would would tell you, like, you want what kind of microgastronomy do you want? And and then and then he would get all the ingredients, you know, ordered to the house and then make you a meal and talk like Jose Andre, I guess. Ollie: Wow. I like this one. This is this is one of the weirder predictions we've had on this show. ryan honey: That was Ashton's ⁓ Ash Ashton predicted that, ⁓ from from GateMaker. And then ⁓ Liz ⁓ her prediction around the, you know, creator economies is that the creators will be more likely to be like brought in as co-founders of brands and also be hired at the executive level to really shepherd brands ⁓ as we move into Ollie: Interesting. ryan honey: this new you know, new world where ⁓ the majority of spend is gonna happen with with social. Ollie: Yeah. It's a bit like y you know, Pharrell into LVMH or but like on a microbe smaller level. We're seeing ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: quite a lot of like joint ventures happening as well. Like people building brands around the influencer and you know backing them, a bit like a Hailey Bieber and Rhode kind of situation, ⁓ where you're sort of given X amount and you can build out this thing. But are you are you speaking about more like influencers being brought in like an exec, you know, creative director level? ⁓ ryan honey: Yeah. It was like chief audience officer. You know, like Ollie: Interesting. ryan honey: Yeah. I mean it's it's it's it's the the I mean the way of the world and understanding that that the way that shit works is It's a whole skill set. I i in talking to GateMaker when I first like was getting to know them and they were telling me like how they've moved the needle for brands from what like insane, you know, like change stock prices ⁓ just using an influencer strategy, you know, like ⁓ and and they have, a wait list of clients who are just like chomping at the bit to work with them. ⁓ And it's really just understanding how that whole world works. Like how how do you find the right people? How do you manage them? How do you convince them to to work for this brand, et cetera, et cetera? It's it's Yeah, it's pretty fascinating. So I think, you know, that that's gonna continue and and and brands are gonna wise up to it. I mean and th they already have, but not everybody. But certainly, you know, beauty and fashion are like years ahead of everybody else. Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: and they're gonna catch up. Ollie: I'm trying to think like what's the reverse of beauty and fashion? Like I'm thinking of like a tech. What was it? Yeah. ryan honey: water Sugar water? Ollie: What's the next Coca-Cola? Well no, I'm just imagining like if they are at the forefront of this, you can understand it because like, you know, beauty, it's very easy to kind of put out to social media, you can see these transformations and things like that. I'm trying to think of like more of a dull brand, like You know, would you B2B? I d weirdly, every part I look at this, I can imagine some kind of creator or influencer in that space. ryan honey: I have this funny story. So I was talking I Ollie: It may be ryan honey: was talking to this company out out of Asia that is influencers and but they specialize in K-pop stars. I was like, okay, why K-pop? And they're like, well, because, you know, all of Asia, it's it's a very obviously the cultures are very different, you know, Singapore, Korea, Malaysia, China, et cetera, et cetera. But K-pop stars cut through all of it. Ollie: Yeah. ryan honey: And so they they started showing me work and it was like this K-pop star ⁓ shilling a toilet bowl cleaner. ⁓ And he was like, Ollie: Wow. ryan honey: live fresh. ⁓ Ollie: No. ryan honey: Okay. ⁓ Ollie: ⁓ I ⁓ I thought it was bad enough that like David Beckham was on forty different brand ads during this World Cup, but like flogging a toilet bowl cleaner, this is a ryan honey: yeah. Bless it. Ollie: new low. Or a high. ⁓ ryan honey: I mean Ollie: Wow. I think I'd say yes to toilet bowl. Fuck it. Why not? You know. I put my face against. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, ryan honey: I mean for the right amount money. Ollie: that's a good one. So we got first the first one kind of creeped me out, but I'm excited for that first one. The ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: second one I can see, I can definitely see happening. What is that? What is our third? Our third and final production. ryan honey: I mean I think the third and main one is just going back to the future of marketing services, which is, the in housing is rampant. It's happening, you know, more and more. I don't even know actually if I've ever encountered a brand that doesn't have an in-house team at the at this point. it is really you know mostly project based, not in social, but in you know sort of the design and campaign world, it's like project based like production companies, et cetera, who have like roster of directors, brands are working directly with them, right? and these people who work there at the brands, they want to co-create. That's the whole point of them going to work for a brand is because they like creating stuff. And so they want to work with the with the makers and well, A, they don't want to get fired, but B B, they want to make great work. and so I feel like in the next three to four years, my prediction is that really you're gonna see resurgence of maker companies, thankfully. Even though AI everyone's like, hey, you know, we don't need you anymore. I mean I think that that this year they're like, well actually maybe I we need you. Ollie: I agree with this. It's funny. I you look at like you know your friend calls you over the weekend and goes, my god, I vibe coded this thing. Like it's like free music and it's gonna be amazing. It's like that sounds like Spotify. Yeah it is, but it's just a bit shitter. I feel like ryan honey: Ha ha ha. Ollie: we don't need these like average kind of nearly okay things that you're making. And it's a go back to the profession go back to the specialists that that love doing that stuff, not people that are kind of half arsing some weird. Cause I think that was the thing. It was like everyone could do everything. And everyone did and it was really quite average. So you kind of ryan honey: Ha ha. Ollie: go back and you're like, okay, maybe we should go to the people that actually really enjoy doing this stuff and and and do this as a profession and not just as Yeah. ryan honey: Yeah. No no one likes mid. Mid mid is mid is poop. Ollie: Mid, mid is poop, it's dead, it's gone. ⁓ okay, I love these predictions. My my final question by the way is is more of a it's an emotional one, it's a philosophical one. ⁓ you can come at this with any angle. And this is a a quote. Are you into quotes? Do you live by quotes? ryan honey: I do, I like quotes, but go ahead. Ollie: Well my question is more like can you think of a quote that has stood the test of time in the twenty five years that you return to? If you can't, then I'll give you an out and tell me a quote that you've heard that you've loved recently. ryan honey: so I have like something that I always say but then I was like, is that my set my quote or did I take it from somebody else? And so I looked it up yesterday just to make sure that I it wasn't someone else's that I've appropriated. But then then it brought up another quote that I love. and it is we are all a little weird. And life's a little weird. And when we find someone whose weirdness is compatible with ours, we join up with them and fall in mutual weirdness. And then we call it love. Ollie: Wow. ryan honey: Doctor Seus. ⁓ Ollie: Dr. Seuss? No! That's a good one. I really like that. Wait, so ryan honey: Yeah. Ollie: what was yours that you made up before you? ryan honey: Mine mine is just like let's keep it interesting and preferably weird. Ollie: which is nice and there's no love in there. It's just like, keep it interesting ryan honey: I'm Ollie: and weird. And we might fall in love and you can stay at my house if you like. ryan honey: I I weird you. Ollie: Yeah. Okay, we're to put this on the casting call for anyone in residence. You need to be a little bit interesting, but most importantly, weird. I think that's the key thing here. ryan honey: Exactly. Ollie: Ryan, thank you so much. This has been genuinely really fun. I've thoroughly enjoyed this. ryan honey: having Ollie: soon for sure. Alright, cheers Ryan. See you, ryan honey: All right. Take care of yourself. Bye. Bye.