Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / When You Feel Too Smart For Therapy

Transcript

When You Feel Too Smart For Therapy · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody. And welcome to the doctors.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show. Today we're going to talk about
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  people who feel that, they're too smart for therapy and I get
• 0:13
  a lot of these people, and we're going to explore, what's really
• 0:15
  behind that assertion? And before we do that, please do
• 0:20
  subscribe, just click on subscribe, because then you'll
• 0:23
  get to hear all my awesome episodes including oral sex on
• 0:27
  women and why you hate who you hate and boundaries and meeting
• 0:31
  us and attachment Theory and there's like a lot of them by
• 0:35
  now. So that gives you the full
• 0:37
  doctor sake, mom, show experience.
• 0:40
  And also, if you ever need therapy, you can go to best life
• 0:44
  Behavioral Health which is my group virtual group therapy
• 0:49
  website. I have people who work for me
• 0:51
  and so more and more people are asking about that so that's
• 0:55
  where you should try for it. I don't have people everywhere
• 0:58
  and every state but at least try me first.
• 1:01
  Okay, so today we are going to talk about people who think that
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  they're too smart for Or therapy.
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  And if you are one of these people, you probably haven't set
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  it out, right? Like that, you may be married to
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  somebody who has said it like that to you about themselves,
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  but what do these people mean? What they mean?
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  Is that they've gone to therapist before and they've
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  found it boring and they have found that the therapist didn't
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  really understand them and didn't really get didn't get
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  them. And these are usually people who
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  have been told that they're very smart, they're high Achievers
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  there in the top echelons of their, you know, either their
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  job, Or just, you know, their IQ test.
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  Like they know that they're very smart, they're not bullshitting.
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  I mean there's people who say this but they're not that smart
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  but I don't really meet those people.
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  I mean, I guess there would be those people, but I mean, in
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  terms of just straight out like intelligence or ability to
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  succeed, you know, there are individual differences in the
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  world, you know, it. So there are people who are
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  smarter than other people, but it does.
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  This mean that you are too smart for therapy, is there such a
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  thing as being too smart? Art for therapy.
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  No no that's not real. Like that is not a thing.
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  So wait, you're the person means is that this therapist does not
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  use the same, kind of words I use and they don't seem to be
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  talking and moving as quickly as my brain moves and basically I
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  am bored but think about it. The reason you're going to
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  therapy probably is because you have some sort of interpersonal
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  issues you know and or existential issues with the
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  meaning of life or interpersonal issues.
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  People around you. And a lot of these could be
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  fixed by you. Not thinking that you are, you
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  know, always supposed to get the maximum efficiency and the max
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  excitement or, you know, stimulus stimulation out of
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  every single encounter, there is always something that you can
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  learn in therapy, even if it's to be more slowed down in a
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  sense and more in the present and And more Mindful and more
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  intentional. There is no time that you have
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  an interaction with anybody that you can't learn something about
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  yourself and a therapist is trained to at least teach you
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  certain specific skills or ways to reframe things depending on
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  the sort of therapist that you go to.
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  So the idea of a person being too smart for therapy, or being
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  so bored by therapy is usually a that person issue.
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  Not a therapist issue. Certainly everybody's not a Fit
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  with any therapist. But if you try like, let's say
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  three therapists and you can get anything out of any of them.
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  They're all too stupid for you. Come on.
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  How is this really making you look, you know, doesn't make you
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  look like somebody who's so smart, it makes you look like an
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  asshole and this may be some of the reasons that maybe
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  interpersonal relationships are not going as well as you would
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  want because you tend to condescend to people and if they
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  don't interact in this very narrow way that you, you know,
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  associate with High Intelligence, then you'd
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  associate from the activity and you look down on the person.
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  And it's interesting because I've worked with a lot of people
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  that are super-high, Achievers, and very smart.
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  And a lot of them these like they get bored when they don't
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  want to engage on something or they think that you're barking
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  up that I as a therapist and barking up the wrong tree.
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  So for example, a lot of these specially men, if we talk about
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  family of origin, they're like her, let's my Only was fine.
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  Everything's fine, let's just move on now.
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  I'm pretty smart, you know? And so they're obviously not
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  thinking well I don't know, maybe they think I'm stupid but
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  probably wouldn't keep coming back, but I don't think they
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  think I'm stupid there. What I think they think is that
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  I'm just wrong. So this is like another layer is
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  when people think that the therapist is just wrong.
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  Like we mean even just wrong. Like if the therapist wants to
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  talk about something, do you really think that there's going
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  to be zero utility? Tea and it especially something
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  like that. I mean you could easily see
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  that. That's an avoidant attachment
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  person. They don't want to think about
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  any, you know, parts of being a weak vulnerable child.
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  They like to move past that stage of their life.
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  Not really think terribly deeply about whatever climate it was
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  and the home. Whereas, of course, this is
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  essential in understanding your nature and your relationships
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  with others as an adult. I mean, I deeply believe that.
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  So it's just the most egregious example.
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  I feel of when People dismiss things that are very important
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  because the conversation is in moving in the direction that
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  they want. So when you're in therapy,
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  especially if you're the sort of person who's used to being the
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  smartest person in the room, you really have to open yourself up
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  to thinking and talking about things that you may not
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  initially find interesting or useful.
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  If this goes on for like months, then stop, then that in therapy
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  isn't help it. And you know, what therapy does
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  not help everybody. It really doesn't.
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  You got to be a verbal and Minded person to engage in
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  therapy, if you're very closed-minded, which really is
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  what I'm talking about here. It's these are smart people.
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  Yeah, they get very high on IQ tests.
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  They get very low on open-mindedness though, because
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  no matter anything could be like, oh, but I try all kinds of
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  food. All kinds of exercise.
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  I travel anywhere. Yeah, but the minute somebody
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  says something that you don't like you're done, so that's not
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  open mind. So if you are a person who
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  really you you for exact, I mean, you're listening to this
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  Podcast, you're interested in Psychology or interested in
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  therapy, or interested in in the idea that there may be things
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  that are sabotaging you from living your best life, right?
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  But somehow every therapist disappoints, you then you have
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  to do a deep dive on. Why?
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  You know, because even therapist like people come to me with a
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  lot of buy-in because I have a lot of stuff out there.
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  I got books, I got this podcast. I got my my website with all my
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  post dr. Psych Mom, right?
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  So I see Social media. They even know who I am.
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  That. I have kids everything.
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  So like they know a lot about me and even still.
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  Like so they have buy-in is my point.
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  They know who I am. They know my style much more
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  than the average person knows, the average person goes to a
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  group practice and they get who they get, you know, they pay
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  insurance, they get who they get and, and that's it.
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  And people make plenty of progress, you know, if they do
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  that and they're open-minded enough.
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  So if you're somebody who's even coming Me, right?
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  And you have all the buy-in and you, you know, believe in things
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  that I say and whatever, even still people will get to certain
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  topics and be like, now, that's stupid, you know, they won't say
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  it directly. So I'm saying, even if this
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  happens to me, imagine how much it happens to other people,
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  where there's not the initial buy-in and I used to be those
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  other people because, you know, starting out in my career, I was
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  in a group practice that people signed up for a therapist and
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  they got me they got and it was me sometimes.
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  You know, as younger woman. And so when people get to
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  certain topics and they won't talk, and they think that it's
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  stupid, this is just a rationalization.
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  This is just the way. This is the way that this
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  person's defense mechanisms work, it's called
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  intellectualization and rationalization.
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  Those are the classic defense mechanisms of this person who
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  likes to stick to the realm of cognition versus emotion.
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  So it could be me asking about family of origin that they Want
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  to talk about, it could be me talking about what their spouse
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  may be thinking, and they don't necessarily want to empathize
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  with their spouse. It could be another idea about,
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  you know, what really went on in their upbringing, despite them
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  saying it was fine, you know, or whatever.
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  Whatever it is, if you find yourself to be closed-minded and
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  the closed-mindedness can be couched in many phrases, but the
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  one that we're talking about now is the therapist is not that
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  smart there, but doesn't understand me.
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  You got to think about you and why you're closed.
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  Is down to certain ideas so you can really get anything out of
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  out of therapy that you want to, you know.
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  And it's like, it's like 75% you and 25% the therapist if you go
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  in with an awesome open mind and you're ready to receive any
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  feedback, then the person does not have to be a rocket
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  scientist. They were trained, you know, and
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  they have, and they're interested in you and they're,
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  you know, generally I kind of see Deaf person.
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  So you should be able to explore at least certain facets of
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  yourself. And if you totally can and
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  you've gone to multiple therapist and people usually go,
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  you know, they kind of funnel down.
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  So at first, they'll go to a group practice and get anybody.
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  Then they'll go to somebody that was recommended by a friend.
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  And then by that point, then they'll come to somebody like
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  me, you know, who they've done a lot of research into and they
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  know, like, the fucking names of my children and shit, you know,
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  not really. But maybe sometimes and, and
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  Then it's like if you if none of these people at all, increasing
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  levels of specificity can help you.
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  Then why you know like or I'm not just talking about me it's
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  not certainly about my clients in particular.
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  I'm seeing if you have gone down this journey and you've done
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  that usual thing of trying to progressively get more and more
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  specific, highly trained experts and still nothing works Then you
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  have to think of what guard do you intellectually?
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  Have up. And why are you so deeply
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  committed to not changing? That is the key thing.
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  So your spouse is probably a very sad that yet another
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  therapist has gone by the wayside because you've decided
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  that they were an idiot or they canceled too many sessions or
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  one time. They didn't remember the name of
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  your wife or, like, whatever the hell your thing is.
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  I'm not saying therapist or perfect.
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  I'm really not like everybody including myself as with the
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  therapist. Of varying levels, you know, but
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  but in every type of therapy and with every therapist you should
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  be able to get something. And if you're somebody who gets
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  nothing who's been seeing somebody for months if not years
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  and really feels like you've not even scratch the surface, then
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  you got to think about why and I definitely feel that it could
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  take a few therapists to get to the right person.
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  You know but at a certain point it's very similar to dating so
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  yeah. Sure do Mary the first person
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  you go on a date with but if you've been dating for like five
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  years and everybody you think is an idiot or boring or ugly.
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  It guess what? Who's the common denominator
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  you? So if you can never find
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  somebody that you click with, that is likely to be a problem
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  that has pervaded your life in general constantly, thinking
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  that nothing or nobody is good enough.
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  Constant disappointment constant?
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  You know like Typing things up in your head and then realizing
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  that there are terrible after all.
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  So usually, this goes a long with family of origin issues,
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  ironically? Right.
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  As does everything and if you feel you can never click with
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  anybody, it's usually because nobody clicked with you.
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  When you were a child, you know, like you always feel
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  misunderstood because nobody really understood you, which is
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  frequently the case, you know, especially for these people who
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  are like super smart and they're in a family where No nobody
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  really talks to them super much and they are not understood
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  deeply by either parent. Maybe the parents Focus are on
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  other children that don't seem to need as much help because or
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  seem to need more help rather because they are not as
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  successful academically. That's a common thing.
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  So these kids were kind of like, left to their own devices
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  because they were highly successful at school sports,
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  what have you? But they never really got that.
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  Parental attention, that click that.
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  Made them feel understood and so for the rest of their lives
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  including with therapists and certainly with Partners, they
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  keep trying to pursue that click.
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  And they have this idea that if the person is just smart enough,
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  right? Then they'll click with them,
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  you know, and sure they're, everybody likes to feel like
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  they're being challenged and that, you know, that they're not
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  kind of saying things that, that, that gonna fly over the
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  person's head, so it is very important for you to see us.
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  Smart quote-unquote therapist then yeah maybe you can see like
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  through profiles and through all the various things kind of what
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  a therapist style is and and close on that.
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  But then you know what happens which Bears out.
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  This entire theory is that frequently people will tell me I
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  went to a therapist. I was really smart but you know
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  he didn't really know anything about trauma or like whatever.
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  Like the thing is so then they're like the always trying
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  to get somebody did. Not only is smart.
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  But then what's the next hope? That the person has to jump
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  through the person has to be trained in this modality.
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  My favorite. I mean, you know, like we have
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  listservs obviously I think I've mentioned before, obviously
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  therapists don't get referrals out of their asses.
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  You know, there's listservs where you say, Okay, somebody
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  called me that wants, somebody works with PTSD for 30 year old
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  man. And does anybody have openings,
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  right? So, sometimes you get these
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  things on the list, serve, and it's like client wants somebody.
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  Trade, that emotionally focused therapy only a PhD, not a social
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  worker, preferably a female. And also somebody who has
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  children themselves. It's like, man.
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  And what about like unicorn to. They also want that to, they
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  want the person to have a unicorn horn because what in the
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  hell you're being so detailed that, it's almost like you're
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  stopping yourself even before therapy.
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  Start your stopping yourself from engaging because she is
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  going to be this perfect entity that you can idealize and
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  because it doesn't exist. So when I was younger, and I got
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  more people through again, through being in a group
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  practice. Now, everybody knows how I'm
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  trained and how I talk and all of this.
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  So I get a lot of real enthusiastic motivated clients
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  which is great, but when I was younger, I would get people who
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  were like, oh, you were trained, cognitive-behavioral e, you
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  weren't trained. Psychodynamic Leo.
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  Well, you know what? I don't know how much you could
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  help me. Well shit with that attitude.
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  Certainly I cannot, you know, because you already decided that
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  I cannot. So if this happens to you a
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  therapist where everybody isn't smart enough, or they're not
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  trained in this or that or whatever, ask your spouse, or if
• 15:51
  you're single well that you know, kind of proves that
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  relationships, you know, have been difficult, but, you know,
• 15:58
  ask a best friend, ask somebody, you know, a my difficult.
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  Do I have? Too many standards.
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  Is it my high standards person to the point that you think that
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  I'm picky and overly selective? Such that nothing can make me
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  happy and you're usually going to get a, yes, because the ways
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  that people interact in therapy and about therapy are microcosms
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  of the way that they interact in general.
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  And that's the entire idea of transference and that's why
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  therapy so useful. Because over time, the
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  relationships, I built with my clients.
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  I see exactly how they interact at home and in all other aspects
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  of their lives. Because Unit with me in the
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  room. And that's the most valuable
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  information I get and this closed-mindedness and making
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  this hoop. We're like the therapist has to
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  be some Super Genius if they're going to help.
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  You is just another variation of closing yourself off to
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  experience being closed-minded rigid, and having this defense
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  mechanism, where you separate yourself from others, because
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  you don't want to be disappointed again, as you
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  Whereas a kid when somebody didn't get you, they didn't
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  understand you. Instead you want to almost like
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  tell yourself ready before it even starts, then nobody can
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  understand you. So that you're not disappointed
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  when they don't but ironically this stops them from ever
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  understanding you because you don't bring your whole self to
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  therapy and people frequently defense mechanisms are designed
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  to stop us from being hurt, in ways that we have learned, that
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  the world hurts us. So, if you think, Think that
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  you, you are somebody who is going to not be understood, what
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  better and smarter way to go into something?
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  Then with a lot of cynicism this is very adaptive when you're a
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  kid, right? If you're a kid and your parents
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  don't seem to understand you for shit.
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  Why are you going to keep thinking that they will?
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  You just setting yourself up to be hurt again and again so it's
• 17:53
  very adaptive to get kind of this almost cynical removed are
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  even as a Child and Adolescent because you you don't want to
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  get hurt again by trying to confine.
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  I'd in a parent who can't hear you or has no emotional
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  bandwidth to empathize with you etcetera, but then this same
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  mechanism that was so adaptive in your childhood, you take it
• 18:14
  into adulthood and it stops you it prevents you from getting
• 18:19
  emotional support and relational engagement that you really need
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  and yearn for because you have cut yourself off as a
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  preventative mechanism which again made sense when you're a
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  kid. Now it's actually hurting you as
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  so many of the defense mechanisms learned in childhood.
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  They all are not good later in adulthood, but it is very hard
• 18:44
  to train yourself to be very different.
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  So if you got anything out of this podcast, it should be open
• 18:49
  yourself up to therapy. Open yourself up to
• 18:53
  relationships. Friendships, Etc.
• 18:57
  With people who you may not think are, you know, as smart as
• 19:01
  you or its skilled as yours town.
• 19:03
  Today's you or whatever because this may be a you thing much
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  more than you think and you may be cutting yourself off from
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  many useful relationships with humans.
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  Including the therapeutic relationship because of this
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  defense mechanism that used to be useful but now it has run
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  amok and it is now very much not useful and is precluding deep
• 19:30
  and genuine and authentic engagement with other people and
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  If your spouse is somebody who says that that therapists are
• 19:36
  constantly disappointing them, then send this to them because
• 19:39
  it may be an interesting thing to spark a discussion.
• 19:42
  Alright, talk to everybody soon. And please do subscribe.