Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Does Couples Therapy Really Improve Sex Lives?

Transcript

Does Couples Therapy Really Improve Sex Lives? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody. Welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom
• 0:08
  Show. Today we're going to be talking
• 0:11
  about the eternal question, or at least an eternal question
• 0:14
  that I get eternally in my e-mail inbox.
• 0:17
  Can you help me? My sex life is terrible.
• 0:20
  And then people sometimes bring it out.
• 0:24
  They zoom it out. Does therapy even help sex
• 0:27
  lives? So this podcast is intended to
• 0:30
  respond to that frequent question.
• 0:32
  And for everybody that asks me something, it's like cockroaches
• 0:35
  for everyone. You see, there's a hundred in
• 0:37
  the walls, so I'm sure there are many, many more people who want
• 0:40
  to know this and thankfully do not, you know, reach out because
• 0:45
  I can only answer so many questions.
• 0:47
  But Speaking of which, if you do want my engagement, then you can
• 0:51
  certainly join the Facebook group because I engage on all
• 0:55
  the threads there and everybody cannot work with me directly,
• 0:58
  although of course some of you can.
• 1:00
  So reach out if you ever want to, but since everybody cannot
• 1:04
  work with me directly, then I can jump on some threads there
• 1:07
  and give a little bit of advice in the Facebook group.
• 1:09
  That's the blue subscribe button on the Doctor Psych Mom Facebook
• 1:14
  page. And also subscribe to the
• 1:17
  podcast that's separate from the Facebook group.
• 1:19
  Most recent subscriber episode was, remember, there's a little
• 1:22
  honeymoon stage every month. OK, so getting down to breast
• 1:27
  tax here. So I work with a lot of people
• 1:31
  on their sex lives, right? And so some people get helped.
• 1:35
  I'd like to, you know, say many people get helped.
• 1:38
  In fact, over the years. I mean, I've worked with like
• 1:40
  hundreds, hundreds of people by now, but not everybody.
• 1:44
  So let's talk about who can benefit from couples counseling
• 1:49
  regarding sex and who cannot. Well, first of all, you can't,
• 1:53
  like, literally hate each other and want to divorce and somehow
• 1:57
  want to work on the sex life at that point.
• 1:59
  That's not going to work. So let me just not blow smoke up
• 2:02
  your ass. You know, as much as I would
• 2:03
  like you to come in and pay me money and we bullshit around, I
• 2:06
  actually wouldn't like that. That's like actually unethical.
• 2:09
  And it also makes me really uncomfortable.
• 2:12
  And so I tell people outright like this is like, not, you
• 2:16
  know, working when it's not working.
• 2:18
  Here's when I say that if you guys are on the press precipice
• 2:22
  of divorce, you are not going to be able to work on your sex
• 2:26
  life. You are not really going to be
• 2:28
  able to work on much besides getting back from the precipice
• 2:32
  of divorce. So women do in fact need to feel
• 2:36
  safe emotionally before having sex.
• 2:40
  If you are literally saying I have gone to a divorce attorney
• 2:43
  and if we cannot get this out of a sexless marriage I'm going to
• 2:46
  file, then while you may think that you are setting a very
• 2:50
  valid and healthy boundary, and in fact who knows, maybe you
• 2:54
  are. She's not going to have sex with
• 2:56
  you if she does have sex with you.
• 2:58
  By the way, it's going to be hysterical bonding and it's not
• 3:00
  going to be because of anything that I or any couples counselor
• 3:03
  did. It's because she is terrified.
• 3:05
  And within two to three weeks it is going to stop.
• 3:08
  So if you have threatened your wife that you are going to leave
• 3:12
  with if there is not a change in the sex life and that you are
• 3:15
  literally about to leave, I'm not talking about saying stuff
• 3:18
  like I don't think that I can last in a marriage like this
• 3:20
  forever. All right?
• 3:22
  This is the kind of thing that people say when they're unhappy.
• 3:24
  I'm talking about if there is a line in the sand or you have
• 3:26
  moved out or something, because I've seen that too.
• 3:29
  And basically you are waiting for like her to like, spread her
• 3:33
  legs. She's not going to, and there's
• 3:35
  nothing I can say and I wouldn't encourage her to because you're
• 3:38
  basically out of the marriage. And I've also seen situations
• 3:42
  like that where you're basically out of the marriage and she
• 3:44
  tries to have sex with you a couple times, but you got a
• 3:46
  taste of freedom and you're not going back for shit.
• 3:49
  So in a situation where you are basically out the door, you
• 3:54
  cannot start sex therapy. I mean that needs to be done
• 3:58
  within a There needs to be a safety and a closeness and trust
• 4:03
  going on. So on the other hand, you know
• 4:06
  you're going to be like, well, it's not happy people that come
• 4:08
  in. Yeah, no shit.
• 4:09
  It's not happy people that come in, but there's happy and
• 4:13
  there's unhappy and then there's really unhappy.
• 4:15
  So why don't you, like, try to just be unhappy, Like like wait
• 4:18
  until you like if you're coming in because you are literally
• 4:21
  have both consulted attorneys, you're not going to.
• 4:23
  I'm not. I'm not going to be able to do
• 4:25
  good work. Nobody's going to be able to do
• 4:26
  good sex therapy with you because there's not a basis, a
• 4:29
  basic level of trust. Now who should come in?
• 4:31
  If you have young kids, you should definitely come in.
• 4:34
  Everybody's motivated when they have young kids, but they're
• 4:36
  young. They're little.
• 4:37
  You don't want their little faces to be upset.
• 4:39
  You tell them that you're, you know, daddy's moving out.
• 4:41
  You don't want that stuff, right?
• 4:43
  So what you do want is to work on the relationship, and so does
• 4:47
  your wife. Here's when not to come in,
• 4:49
  though, because there's a caveat when she literally just had a
• 4:51
  baby, if she just had a baby within six months.
• 4:57
  Unless it's like your third baby and like, these sex troubles
• 5:00
  predated everything. Honestly, even in that
• 5:02
  situation, you are going to have to wait.
• 5:04
  Her hormones have not even normalized.
• 5:07
  She is still nursing overnight. She has a sex drive of a 90 year
• 5:12
  old woman because her body really doesn't want her to get
• 5:14
  pregnant again. So I would go so far as to say
• 5:17
  that you should wait until the baby's at least a year old.
• 5:20
  Some people can't do that because they already been
• 5:22
  waiting since the first baby, who's now six years old, was,
• 5:25
  you know, a fetus. So sometimes it feels more
• 5:28
  urgent than other times, but especially if it's a first baby.
• 5:31
  If it is a first baby, do not come in when that baby is not
• 5:34
  sleeping through the night or like one maybe nine months.
• 5:40
  Do not come in with a new baby, though.
• 5:41
  Come on. I mean, you got to give the
• 5:43
  woman time to recuperate, to get back on her feet.
• 5:47
  Overall, as a human being. So young kids is good.
• 5:51
  A baby not good if it is a baby. If it's our first baby, really
• 5:56
  not good, because she's also trying to figure out how to be a
• 5:58
  mother. She probably has postpartum, all
• 6:00
  of these things Now. Is that to say you should not
• 6:03
  come in for couples therapy when she's postpartum?
• 6:07
  Of course you could. That's the best way to get her
• 6:09
  through the door. If you think that she has
• 6:11
  postpartum and she's not acknowledging it, you say, I
• 6:14
  want to go to couples counseling and work on our marriage.
• 6:16
  That's awesome, because then the therapist can tell her, hey,
• 6:18
  guess what? You have postpartum depression.
• 6:20
  Great. Awesome.
• 6:21
  Do not bring her in, though, for something specifically focused
• 6:23
  on sex, because that's beyond insensitive because she has
• 6:25
  literally a baby. So don't do it.
• 6:28
  OK, what if your kids are older? Fine, so forget about the small
• 6:32
  kids. If you love each other, if at
• 6:35
  least one of you could say that you love the other one, fine.
• 6:38
  If good. Get into couples counseling and
• 6:41
  we could start focusing on sex, hopefully relatively sued.
• 6:44
  If both of you love each other, then we can start focusing on
• 6:47
  sex almost immediately. If neither of you really know if
• 6:50
  you love each other, then obviously even though the man or
• 6:53
  the higher libido partner may think that that lack of love
• 6:56
  does have to do with the lack of sex.
• 6:58
  If there is no love, nobody can tell somebody to try to
• 7:01
  experiment getting in the mood and responsive desire and
• 7:04
  touching and sense it focus, which is focusing on the
• 7:07
  sensations of just massage or what have you with somebody who
• 7:11
  doesn't love them. So like, basically, I guess what
• 7:14
  I'm saying is that sometimes people have already given their
• 7:18
  wife an ultimatum and then want to work on the sex life that
• 7:22
  just does not work. The more vulnerable you make her
• 7:26
  feel, the worse that the sex life is going to go.
• 7:29
  And nobody's really going to want to put her into harm's way
• 7:32
  like that. That's the truth, you know,
• 7:34
  because sex is very vulnerable. If she's a low libido person,
• 7:37
  she's super uncomfortable by sex anyway.
• 7:41
  So, like the idea that she's somehow doing it to like, get
• 7:45
  your love and you won't love her if she doesn't do it.
• 7:48
  While I totally understand that I'm the first person to say that
• 7:52
  love is expressed through sex. And maybe you don't really feel,
• 7:55
  of course, like, you love her as much as you could if you were
• 7:58
  having sex. But if that has been stated that
• 8:01
  you don't love her anymore and it's because of sex that it's
• 8:04
  just like, not, you can't really put somebody in that position.
• 8:08
  That's just not really an emotionally healthy position for
• 8:12
  her to be in is to try to, like, fuck her way into your loving,
• 8:16
  you know, graces. It's just not not not good.
• 8:20
  So then, on the other hand, when does it work?
• 8:22
  When the two people love each other and they are committed to
• 8:25
  working on this no matter what that's like.
• 8:27
  The ideal client is like people that, like, love each other and
• 8:31
  respect each other and they understand that sex has been a
• 8:35
  problem, but they are focused on keeping the couple and the
• 8:39
  family together. Kids can be a huge motivator.
• 8:42
  And honestly, the more open minded the people are, the
• 8:46
  better it is. You know, I mean, 'cause there
• 8:48
  are you're going to be like low libido, a woman, how's she going
• 8:50
  to be open minded? There are, especially
• 8:53
  intellectually. If a woman thinks that, OK, you
• 8:56
  know what? I seem to have some trouble
• 8:58
  around sex and things gross me out.
• 9:00
  And I I I know that that can't be right, you know?
• 9:04
  And and I I don't want to live like this forever.
• 9:08
  Well, then that is like the ideal sex therapy candidate,
• 9:12
  right? It's somebody who honestly
• 9:14
  understands that it's an issue. And yeah, sure, there's other
• 9:18
  issues in the relationship, but we're going to address those
• 9:20
  too. But understands that she I just
• 9:23
  say she it could be he if it's a low libido man brings to the
• 9:26
  table some issues with past sexual trauma or with being
• 9:29
  raised sex negative or with never really understanding their
• 9:33
  own body or what turns them on. And if they are like aware that
• 9:37
  there's a problem and open minded enough to say, yeah you
• 9:40
  know what this problem makes the marriage harder and I want to
• 9:43
  work on it. That's ideal, right.
• 9:46
  So given all of this, like how successful can couples can, can
• 9:52
  sex therapy be compared to regular couples counseling?
• 9:57
  Well, I'll tell you, it's not really a fair comparison because
• 10:00
  more people go into regular couples counseling than any sort
• 10:03
  of sex therapy or couples counseling focused on sex.
• 10:06
  So many of the couples that I get, it's the first time that
• 10:09
  they've talked about sex, but they've done a lot of couples
• 10:11
  counseling. I just read interesting
• 10:13
  statistics that said something like a large majority with like
• 10:16
  80 or 90% of people that have been through couples counseling
• 10:20
  found it to be useful. And that really does dovetail
• 10:23
  with a lot of my experience. Of course, keep in mind there's
• 10:26
  cognitive dissonance reduction. You're going to go to something
• 10:29
  for a week after week, pay a lot of money for it.
• 10:32
  You're going to damn well fucking get something out of it,
• 10:34
  you know? I mean, most people are.
• 10:36
  It's like how most people will never have a bad vacation
• 10:38
  because they took the time and the effort to go on the damn
• 10:41
  vacations will be pretty different pressing if they
• 10:43
  didn't enjoy it. So they're going to make
• 10:45
  themselves enjoy it. And that's how most people are
• 10:46
  with couples counseling. Now with sex therapy, many, many
• 10:50
  fewer people do it. I talked to so many people, we
• 10:53
  are the 1st to talk about their sex lives and they've been in
• 10:55
  couples counseling for sometimes like a decade or something.
• 10:58
  You know, they've never talked about it before, but within the
• 11:01
  people that do well at regular counseling, this is no surprise.
• 11:06
  They tend to do better at sex therapy because they're already
• 11:09
  good at giving and receiving feedback.
• 11:11
  And now sex therapy by the way to like there's people who are
• 11:14
  like specifically certified and you know, sex therapy.
• 11:17
  What I'm talking about is therapy where we are focused on
• 11:21
  discussing sexual issues, like the sexual attitudes of both
• 11:24
  people. Like what do we like and we
• 11:26
  don't like what are our turn ONS?
• 11:29
  What are dynamics that interest us and excite us?
• 11:31
  What are the technical things that we are both doing in bed
• 11:34
  that either of us likes or doesn't like?
• 11:36
  What are some other things we could try?
• 11:37
  What's some basic psychoeducation about desire,
• 11:40
  Responsive desire, the the effects of the menstrual cycle?
• 11:44
  All of these different things. So what sex therapy is not, Is
• 11:48
  somebody standing in a room with you?
• 11:49
  Or I guess on a zoom call you may be picturing, like,
• 11:52
  instructing you how to move your bodies and have sex.
• 11:55
  That is not. That is probably something on
• 11:57
  only fans, but it is nothing to do with like the reality of what
• 12:01
  it is to be working with a couple on their sex life as a
• 12:06
  clinician. You know, I mean, I think
• 12:08
  there's sexual surrogates somewhere in like California
• 12:10
  that like can do that, but that that's nothing like it.
• 12:13
  So what I'm talking about myself is working on talking about the
• 12:18
  sex life with a couple, which for many couples is the first
• 12:22
  time that they've ever really even done it.
• 12:24
  And that's why the more in mind that the person is, the more
• 12:27
  responsive they are to any sort of coaching or feedback in any
• 12:30
  sort of domain, the better this goes.
• 12:32
  So I would say also, you know, I have a high success rate, but
• 12:36
  then that's people who are choosing to come in.
• 12:39
  So it's self selected. If I just randomly accosted some
• 12:42
  sexless couple on the street, you know, my success rate
• 12:45
  probably plummet pretty quick because the people that will
• 12:48
  come in in the first place, especially to somebody like me
• 12:53
  who talks about sex on the Internet, they're already more
• 12:56
  open minded than the average person, you know.
• 12:58
  So, so yeah, so I mean, I, you know, I don't like to bullshit.
• 13:02
  So yeah, sure. Like I help a lot of people.
• 13:04
  Also, those people are the people who came in in the 1st
• 13:07
  place. So this certainly is not any
• 13:08
  sort of randomized double-blind study.
• 13:11
  Don't know how you could do a double-blind study.
• 13:12
  People know when they're talking about their sex life.
• 13:15
  I don't know how you would even do that.
• 13:17
  But the the point is, if you can get over the hump, no pun
• 13:22
  intended, of going in for sex therapy, you probably already
• 13:28
  are more open minded and more able to make changes than the
• 13:32
  average couple, right? Given that, the more motivation
• 13:38
  that you have in terms of like external motivators, such as
• 13:42
  staying together for the children because you love each
• 13:45
  other, because you share similar values, because you still
• 13:49
  respect each other, because you don't want to break up the
• 13:51
  family, family, these are all very, very helpful reasons.
• 13:54
  We all need external reasons, right?
• 13:56
  Everything can't just be, you know, your feelings at that
• 13:59
  given moment. So the more of those you have,
• 14:03
  you know, then then obviously the better it's going to go.
• 14:07
  Also, another thing is, is that if you ever, ever, ever had a
• 14:12
  good sex life, it's much easier to get back there.
• 14:15
  I mean, that's the truth of the matter.
• 14:17
  I understand though that many people who come in have never
• 14:20
  had a good sex life. And that's OK as long as now.
• 14:24
  Remember, this is going to be a very big caveat.
• 14:27
  I cannot and nobody can make you be attracted to somebody.
• 14:31
  So if you were never attracted to your partner, then you know,
• 14:37
  it's like a it's kind of a save your time and money situation
• 14:40
  here. Nobody can make that.
• 14:42
  Nobody can make you be attracted to your partner, right?
• 14:45
  I mean, I don't do hypnosis. I don't know who does, but I
• 14:48
  don't think anybody can hypnotize you into it either.
• 14:52
  Thank God there's not a lot of people in that situation.
• 14:55
  Most people did initially feel some spark or chemistry with
• 14:58
  their partner. And then we're not trying to get
• 15:01
  back into the honeymoon stage, obviously, but at least there's
• 15:04
  something to go on where they're not disgusted by this person.
• 15:08
  If you are disgusted by your partner.
• 15:10
  And this is cross gender, by the way.
• 15:11
  This is not just women that are disgusted by men.
• 15:13
  There are some men that are disgusted by their female
• 15:15
  partner as well, and there are even men that settled even at
• 15:18
  the beginning. And we're not very attracted,
• 15:20
  not as many. For men.
• 15:22
  You know, attraction is kind of a prerequisite to getting
• 15:24
  married. But there are some men that
• 15:26
  really, you know, kind of never felt it.
• 15:29
  And that was like the elephant in the room of the relationship.
• 15:32
  It's going to be a good woman, a good mother.
• 15:33
  Everything will be fine. I really respect her.
• 15:36
  But they just never were, like, fully into her.
• 15:39
  And that is something that's, you know, you really cannot
• 15:43
  create in therapy. You know you just can't.
• 15:47
  And so that is kind of that's more of of an individual if
• 15:52
  that's you go to individual therapy and think about why it
• 15:55
  happened, what you want to do etcetera, etcetera.
• 15:57
  People can have good marriages, but the idea of kind of almost
• 16:00
  forcing yourself, and I don't good marriage people can have
• 16:05
  tolerable marriages, you know, even in the absence of any sort
• 16:09
  of of attraction. If they want, you know, if
• 16:11
  that's if they're both kind of low sex drive people.
• 16:15
  But kind of like if if you're if you're insect therapy and your
• 16:18
  elephant in the room is that you have no attraction to your
• 16:20
  partner, then it's kind of like not don't do that, you know,
• 16:25
  because it's never going to work.
• 16:26
  So just say like, you know, basically I'm not comfortable
• 16:30
  with with working on that right now.
• 16:31
  And then go to individual therapy and figure out if you
• 16:34
  really want to stay with this person or you want to cut them
• 16:36
  free or what. But that is something like, you
• 16:39
  know, sometimes people think psychologists like magic or
• 16:41
  something. No, not magic.
• 16:44
  If if you find if your skin crawls at the idea of being with
• 16:46
  your partner, and it always did, or if there was like some
• 16:50
  tremendous change in them, you know, like they gained like 100
• 16:54
  lbs or something, you could talk about that in couples
• 16:57
  counseling. But you're not going to start
• 16:59
  actively working on the sex life if you like, are really, like,
• 17:02
  grossed out by your partner. And this happens to both men and
• 17:05
  women, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
• 17:06
  That's how how you feel. But it you you can't really go
• 17:10
  back against that in a best case scenario and but then many
• 17:13
  people will be like, yeah, but like I don't feel about them
• 17:15
  like I used to. Yeah, no shit.
• 17:18
  That's just you're not in the honeymoon stage anymore.
• 17:20
  But if you can still think how someone else might want to have
• 17:24
  sex with them, or you can still think that objectively they're
• 17:28
  attractive, then we're going, we're we're, we're headed in the
• 17:31
  right direction. So yeah, of course you don't
• 17:33
  feel the same level of attraction.
• 17:35
  Sure, that's just not being an honeymoon stage anymore.
• 17:38
  But there are people listening that know what I mean?
• 17:41
  And 'cause sometimes I see them, you know, maybe they're like, I
• 17:46
  don't know, 5% of the people that come in or something that
• 17:48
  were never attracted to their spouse.
• 17:50
  And they'll tell me, like in an individual session, you know,
• 17:53
  And those people, you know, the marriages don't tend to work out
• 17:56
  because by the time they've come into therapy, that means they're
• 17:58
  ready to kind of acknowledge the elephant in the room.
• 18:01
  And then by that time it's already kind of too late.
• 18:04
  So anyway, hopefully that's not you, though, because that's not
• 18:06
  most people. And if you are people who are
• 18:09
  kind of motivated and open minded and you have something to
• 18:14
  work toward and you have external motivators, I mean,
• 18:18
  then you would be good candidates, you know.
• 18:20
  And by the time you're people who come in, then you're already
• 18:22
  people who want to work on it. And that is the that's the
• 18:25
  sample of people who come in. So listen to this podcast with
• 18:29
  your spouse. I'll tell you if you and your
• 18:31
  spouse could listen to this podcast and be like, well, I
• 18:33
  don't know, I guess we are the kind of people who could work on
• 18:35
  our sex lives that it's like almost assured that you could
• 18:38
  make some kind of progress because you're already in that
• 18:41
  zone mentally. All right, hope you guys found
• 18:44
  this interesting. As always, thank you for
• 18:48
  listening and I will talk to y'all soon.
• 18:49
  Have a great day guys. Oh, and I wanted to say that if
• 18:55
  there are people who are happily together but are do not need any
• 19:00
  sort of full relationship coaching or real therapy or any
• 19:05
  therapy or anything but want some intimacy coaching
• 19:09
  specifically just on sex and what to do in bed bed and how to
• 19:14
  keep things fresh and education about bodies and that kind of
• 19:18
  thing. I do have Heather Ray, the
• 19:19
  sexologist and intimacy coach at Best Life, who can work with you
• 19:24
  specifically and often adjunctively.
• 19:27
  Sometimes. No, sometimes people just see
• 19:29
  her but sometimes they see her alongside other therapy or what
• 19:31
  have you and she could work with you on all those sexual issues.
• 19:34
  So again, reach out. Always reach out to
• 19:36
  info@bestlifebehavioralhealth.com. Bye bye.