Latest / ShameOver - The Drink Less Podcast / Why Your Drinking Habits Aren’t the Problem — Your Mindset Might Be (Part 2 of 3)
Transcript
- Erica And ShameOver: All right, this part of that conversation was so important because it really shows that changing your drinking isn't about becoming some totally different person. It's about coming back to yourself. So in part three, Jessica and I will be talking about nervous system regulation, plant medicine, emotional processing, and practical ways to drink less without feeling deprived. So if that sounds like your jam, make sure you come back for the final part of this series. And as always, if this episode helped you, Welcome back to Shame Over the Drink Less podcast. Today is part two of my conversation with Jessica Tanner. In the first episode, we talked about Jessica's background in hospitality and the drinking culture that made over drinking feel so incredibly normal. But today we are getting into the deeper layer and the mindset side of it all. We're talking identity, labels, self-worth, people pleasing, and why changing your relationship with alcohol is almost never just about the alcohol. Now, this is one of my favorite parts of the conversation because it really gets to the root of what's underneath the habit. Let's dive in. please take a quick sec to follow the show, leave a review, or share it with someone who needs a message. So we'll see you next time in part three. I the same thing with my clients because I have definitely found through the past few years of ⁓ really in on this is pretty much everyone that I've worked with outside of, know, maybe one or two really don't have a drinking problem. Drinking is their solution. ⁓ And so of that is because they're busy moms. They're typically like really successful, you know, high functioning everything, but Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Mm, yeah. Erica And ShameOver: they are so busy doing for everyone else. They're on that list every single time, but everyone else keeps getting on the list and they keep getting further. Then they get back up and then keep going down, right? And it's like, you have to be on that list at the top every day. And, you know, I'm, I'm the first to admit that I am on that list and keep falling down myself, you know? So it's like practicing what you preach, absolutely. But just seeing so much of your relationship with alcohol, for example, Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: really comes down to your relationship with yourself. So what kind of people do you typically attract working with as far as like, it's not, you overall health, but you said it's not, you know, just food or working out, cause yeah, absolutely. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Totally. I that the type of client ⁓ attract, which I think this is very common in the coaching space, they always say like someone who's like five steps behind you, right? And all the people that I've attracted thus far have been people who probably have like a little bit of people ⁓ tendencies where like they've lived their life in a way where they're always pleasing others or they're like silencing their own truth. to be liked or to fit in whatever mold it is or crowd they're hanging out with. They've like not figured out how to connect to self and really listen to whatever dialogue or maybe their inner knowing those sorts of themes. I'm trying to think anything else. and then like, I feel like a lot of my clients too have all dealt with negative self-talk. Erica And ShameOver: god, that's such a part, yeah. Jessica Tanir: And then like, all these are just different symptoms of like not really having a strong connection to self and like, and appreciation and like, I always hate using this word, but it's, cause it's just so overused, like, like self love. cause when you really like appreciate yourself and respect yourself, Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. Jessica Tanir: some of those things fall away because you would never treat yourself like that if you actually value who you are. And like it does connect with alcohol too. Like the more you actually value yourself, your time, your energy, you're not going to over drink because you know how you're going to feel the next day and you want to show up in a certain frequency every day of your life. Erica And ShameOver: Yes, I've found the exact same thing, not only like with the people pleasing, but especially the negative self-talk. And I will start out with like, ⁓ is your relationship with yourself? Like, how do you talk to yourself about yourself? ⁓ I would say most people read themselves like pretty good to themselves. And then as we're working together, they're like, I did not know how terrible I was to myself. Like just the constant, like beating yourself up with the thoughts. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: you know, like, I can't believe you did that. You're so dumb. You're so blah, I'm like, and that used to be me, but I can't believe the last time a thought like that came in my head, like you're there's something wrong with you. Why did you do that or anything? It'd be like, oops, that that wasn't what I intended. How can we repair this? Or, know, like, it's just insane because my brain does not even go there anymore. And it absolutely used to. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You Well, they're all habits. And also, it's like interesting that clients would rate themselves like that. And then through just bringing the awareness piece in of like, okay, I'm to put awareness to this and like observe how it is I am talking. And then that's when you start to uncover, wow, I really don't actually speak to myself with as much kindness as I thought I did. And then like, and then you start practicing, okay, I'm going to actually speak to myself with more kindness. And then that becomes Erica And ShameOver: Exactly, yes. Jessica Tanir: a habit and then that's just how you're living your life now. You're not, like you said, you don't have those negative thoughts. I mean, you might still have them come in, but they might not be as like intense as they were before. Erica And ShameOver: Totally. Or you catch yourself in the moment and you're like, that's not true. know, so what is that something? Yeah. Is something you used to struggle with yourself or have you always kind of had a better self-talk relationship? Jessica Tanir: ⁓ yeah. It's interesting because it's like, don't hear, I've never heard this like inner voice that's like, you're so dumb for doing that or this or that, but it's almost like this pressure that I put on myself. And that's like how it manifests for me personally, where I'm like, I'm not doing enough. Or I'm not, you know, I'm not as productive or I'm being lazy or they're not necessarily like call outs and ⁓ maybe the way of like, Erica And ShameOver: Hmm. Yeah, not mean, nasty. Yeah. Jessica Tanir: actually saying like really mean things to yourself, but like, they're more of like putting pressure and being hard on myself for like, not doing X, Y or Z or always came down to like not doing enough. I feel like my whole life was like all about like doing and like being productive or how much I could get done. And like, I've had to really unravel that over the last few years of like, wow, my worth is not. tied to how much I can produce, which is like such our, it's, again, it's so like embedded in our culture here. Erica And ShameOver: Absolutely, yeah. Jessica Tanir: our identities are a lot of times linked to how productive we can be, like as an employee, as someone who maybe owns their own company or their job or whatever it is. Erica And ShameOver: Well, and I feel like it is very keeping up with the Jonesy materialistic type thing in the sense that it is about money. It is about, you know, the title, uh, you know, like your job title, the company you work for, you know, all of those things. And it is so hard not to like get wrapped up in it, but it's so. Defeating like it's, it's a, you can never get to the top. Yeah. And like who even wants to. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then now social media, I mean that, then also like social media has made it like 10 times worse of like you go on and like you see what everyone else is doing and then it immediately makes you feel like whatever you did do that day just wasn't enough. Erica And ShameOver: ⁓ yeah. Well, and I'm so glad you brought that up because it is even myself. like, well, I don't feel that way. But the more you're on social media, like you're the subconsciousness is telling. Yeah, exactly. It's just like my life doesn't look like that. So like you feel less than even if you're not. You're not having these conscious thoughts, it's still making you feel less than because it is constant comparison. That's that's what our brain does. Jessica Tanir: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Yes. Mm hmm. Exactly. And actually, I'll share something from that I was like navigating this week is I lost my grandmother, as you know, like, almost a month ago now. And this last week that I've been back home, since like dealing with all the family stuff, ⁓ was feeling so low. ⁓ like so I mean, I'm not very, I'm not a depressed person, but you know, like I'm feeling like more sad, low than my usual attitude or like feeling. when I was going on social media, like the things that were being fed to me were more like low vibrational and like almost like conspiracy type theory content and like a lot of like evoking like fear and like. ⁓ Erica And ShameOver: Which is really hard not to get trapped into that, you're like, wait, what? Jessica Tanir: I know and then like, and then I found myself taking in this media and then like, it's like, I don't know, it was affecting me in like not a positive way and I was, I really contemplated on like, you really have to be careful how you're feeling because like, energy attracts energy, right? Like attracts like, and so like, if you're feeling like already a little low, like, I don't care what people say about the algorithm. I think it's energy based and I feel like, you're then attracting that kind of energy. Because like the way that it gets fed too is like what like what piece of content did people put a lot of energy into and like they liked it or they viewed it vice versa if they didn't, right? So just an interesting thing to think about when like we're we're using social media. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah, no, absolutely. Yes. Yes, have a mostly hate relationship with social media, I will admit. I have very solid boundaries there that, because it's just so easy just to scroll and realize like, ⁓ my God, I thought I was on here for four minutes and it was 45. ⁓ So I will basically post for work and kind of be done. But ⁓ whenever am on there, mine is always uplifting positive quotes and stuff like that, which Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: Again, hard not to get sucked into that because I'm like, ⁓ yeah, I did like that. But I noticed that previously, and this is where I had to really set a lot of those boundaries, is it was all this parenting stuff that I'm like, you know, it's I really wanted to learn this information to know how to better handle toddlers, for example. But it was getting to the point to where like that's all I was seeing. I was so depressed and down and just like feeling so low and I could not Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: understand why and it's like even though this is all helpful stuff subconsciously I'm being told like you're not doing it right you're not doing enough you're not good at this and so I just had to like literally completely stop with all of that because I'm like if I want to seek it out great but otherwise I don't need people telling me how to be a better parent because all it's gonna be telling me in the back of my mind is you're not doing enough you're not good at this and I'm like nope that that that's got to go so setting those boundaries is Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: I found so essential for overall joy and happiness. Jessica Tanir: No, I can't agree with you more. really is like this slippery slope of you can feel so connected to like who you are, whatever it is you're doing in the world. And then it's like, as as you get onto any sort of social media app, your art like instantly all this information where yes, you're like, am I am I doing it right? Am I doing it wrong? What like, I'm not living my life this way? Should I be living my life that way? ⁓ Erica And ShameOver: And I mean, we know that it's people's like highlight reels. Like we know that going into it, but it's still like, again, it's what's happening behind the scenes. And to the, connection point, I saw a stat recently that we think we're more connected than other than ever, consistently across the board. this is like all countries, all over the world. We feel less connected than ever. So no, exactly. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Yeah, because it's not genuine connection at all. And this is why I started hosting. I mean, I've been hosting events in Miami since like 2021, but like I it's been like here and there. And then I recently started again. And I like my events to be more like smaller and intimate because I want to bring in that piece of like actual connection. Like at the end of the event, I want people to like go around and share like, maybe it was something that we journaled about that you really want to share in the group or maybe it was something from the sound healing or the meditation or normally I bring in a plant for us to like sip a tea or something like that. And like actually give people the opportunity to like speak, be heard, connect and in those containers, like normally there's two people that are kind of going through something similar or you find resonance and someone else's story. And I don't feel like we really getting that on social media and that's like why we need more in-person Erica And ShameOver: ⁓ yeah. Jessica Tanir: events, retreats, gatherings... yeah, yeah. Erica And ShameOver: And without your phone, like nothing kills me more than like just seeing people like, like giving it a coffee shop, talking, but on their phone the whole time. I'm just like, if you can, like, I know sometimes we do have to have it. get that, but like, it's. Jessica Tanir: Yeah. Like, I don't underst- My partner came home last night actually from DJing, he's like, I watched this couple have dinner together and the entire time they were both on their phones, they like barely spoke to each other, they didn't even seem like they were enjoying the food and I'm like, well I go out! Like, I don't even understand. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. My husband and I do when we go out on dates, especially if it's like at a restaurant or whatever, we do no phone zone. So unless we absolutely need to, you know, look at our phone for some reason where we found it's the hardest is when we're like trying to think of something that we're so used to, just Googling it to see like, ⁓ yeah, that's what their name was or whatever. So that's where it's hardest. Don't let us forget that. But it is just, we connect so much more. Like I feel. Jessica Tanir: Mm. ⁓ This is... Erica And ShameOver: My cup is so much more filled after those dates than when the phone's present, even if we're not on it, but just having it like physically out. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Even if you I saw this other podcast this woman was talking about how even if like maybe you do go to dinner, right? You were just on your phone and then you set your phone down I think there's like it takes 20 minutes for you to actually shift your attention to not being on the phone anymore and it and especially if it's like sitting next to you and I was like, ⁓ my gosh, that's so interesting. I don't know how factual that is but like it makes sense because like Erica And ShameOver: which is new to you. Yeah. Jessica Tanir: attention spans are. Erica And ShameOver: ⁓ total. I believe it. ⁓ one thing that I've started doing that I find difference just in, mean, the stats tell you, ⁓ but you can do gray screen or basically the gray scale black and white. If you have an iPhone, I think for me, I just hit the side, like the off button three times in a row and it turns it to gray scale. I on my phone, not even half the time as when it's the normal, because it's just. Jessica Tanir: Listen. Yeah, with all the colors. Erica And ShameOver: the pretty vibrant colors and everything. It's insane how well that works. So I try to do that, especially in the evenings so that I'm not on it much at night. And then when I wake up, it's still on it. So like, I don't even really think about it. So if anyone wants to try something that has been very effective. Okay. Totally. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. I'll have to try that because I always put mine to warm scale so it's not like the super bright blue light and it's like easier on the eyes but I might steal that tip and try it. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. You know, even try it for a couple of days or whatever and see if you notice the difference. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but I've been unbelievably shocked how quickly it works. Even my daughter who she's sex, she'll get on my phone. She's like, what's wrong with this? Ew. And then she'll give it back. I'm like, okay, that's what I need to do. Like she doesn't want my phone if it's black and white. So perfect. Yeah. Oh my God. That is a whole nother topic is. Jessica Tanir: the Just always have your phone on the way around the kids. Erica And ShameOver: how kids and technology and all of that. So we won't even get on that. But so you brought up like plant utilizing plants. So what is your kind of experience with that or thoughts around that? Cause it's something that I've definitely always been very intrigued by. ⁓ myself, ⁓ I know I shared this with you, but when I get really high fevers, I hallucinate and they're like the scariest worst hallucination trips ever. ⁓ Jessica Tanir: you Erica And ShameOver: So for me, anything that could potentially like trigger that I've always stayed away from, but I am very, very intrigued and fascinated by it. So I would love to learn more. Jessica Tanir: I stumbled upon plant medicine in 2022. I had been following this girl on Instagram randomly. I think like I had tried to find people for like expanders for another friend who at the time had just gotten certified to teach Kundalini. And I found this woman and I started following her. And then she posted about a retreat she was going to have in Peru. And for whatever reason, I felt so called to go. and we were gonna be working with San Pedro, which is also known as Wachuma. And at the time, my, do I explain this? Like I hadn't really dabbled with psychedelics or plant medicines in this way. I mean, I think I maybe smoked weed in college. I I had an ex who was a huge fish fan. So ⁓ I... Erica And ShameOver: Yes. Jessica Tanir: I know, yeah, there were some of the shows I went to that I think maybe I dabbled a little then, but for the most part, I wasn't really a big user of psychedelics. I go on this plant medicine retreat and ⁓ wasn't just in medicine. Yeah, it was in Peru. We were going to Cusco in the Sacred Valley ⁓ I just had such a profound experience. We also like saw some of the cities and we did some yoga and ⁓ Erica And ShameOver: in Peru. Jessica Tanir: We also did the plant medicine two days in a row with a local Ketchewin woman who led the ceremonies for us. I just remember having so many shifts happen from that. Like that was actually one of the first times I such a clear message on like how hard I was on myself and like how I needed to like just be more gentle. ⁓ And it's the plants are going to give you what you need, not what you want. And you can go in with an intention though. Erica And ShameOver: Interesting. Mm. Jessica Tanir: And I can't, I can't even remember now what my intention was when I went into that experience, but like you do want to have an intention of like why you're coming into these ceremonies and why you're working with these plants. I mean, I think you should have an intention with anything personally. And then from there, I kind of just went down this rabbit hole where I started to work with other plants and sitting like different containers and spaces. And then in 20. 23 ⁓ yeah, it was just a year later. It feels like a lifetime, but like a year later. I ended up back to Peru or no just kidding. I think it was like two years later, maybe I'm like wait here. Yeah, no, maybe a year later doesn't matter I ended up back in Peru and then I went and sat with ayahuasca because The woman's retreat I went on she had a friend there that had a retreat center in the Sacred Valley in Pisaq and then I went and sat Erica And ShameOver: Okay. Jessica Tanir: and did like a whole week long retreat with them. then now I've been working with plants since then. I've been back to Peru three times. I actually found myself in the jungle in ⁓ November 2024. Yeah, I'm like time just doesn't feel, I'm like time is so funny right now. I went to outside of Aikido's and I was like. Erica And ShameOver: wow. I don't even know what year it is now, so here's my Jessica Tanir: learning more about master plants there with the Shopeebo lineage. yeah, it's been like a whirlwind, but I'll say what I've learned with the plants is like, have so much wisdom to bestow on us. We just have to get quiet enough to connect and listen to them. And then I worked with a mentor teacher last year and in this like three month container she hosted where we worked with more of your everyday plants like rose and lavender and to like create ritual around that and like sitting with those plants and creating relationships. So then now I've been kind of dabbling with sitting with other everyday plants like jasmine or hibiscus ⁓ ⁓ mail. Yeah. Erica And ShameOver: Interesting, okay. Amazing. I have seen actual statistics that it's, this is mind blowing. Cause it's like what, but talking about like how much wisdom plants do have. done studies showing like two plants side by side, same lighting, same everything. ⁓ one being talked to ⁓ a lovingly way and the other being literally like basically belittled. Like you're speaking to a plant and yeah, the, the belittled plant. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Yes, you're alive. Erica And ShameOver: was unhealthy, it was like breaking, it was like getting disease, all this other thing. The other one, completely thriving. Like literally, chills, just talking about it. I'm just like, how is this a thing? That's insane. Jessica Tanir: Because they're alive, they have a spirit to them, you know, and they've been here like some of these plants have been here for long. Yes, exactly. Far longer than we have. And it's funny you mentioned the thing about I started talking to some of my plants and in my apartment and like there's one this it's like one of those little cactuses that have the red flowers. But let me tell you this this this cactus guy, he hasn't like blossomed flowers in a very long time and he wasn't growing new little Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. Way longer than we have. Yes, yes. Jessica Tanir: little pieces of cactus, I guess you could say. ⁓ ⁓ I started talking to him and being like, come on, grow. And he finally just started growing some more. And I'm like, my God, this works. Erica And ShameOver: The gold things or whatever, yeah. It's crazy. But I mean, that just shows if you can do this to a play out, like imagine what it's doing to us, you know, like how we're talking to ourselves and thinking about ourselves and yeah. Jessica Tanir: Yes, exactly. And if you connect with the plant and again, have a strong intention of why you're coming to work with these plants, they're going to help guide you and show you things and highlight things for you. The more I've gone down this rabbit hole of working with plants and plant medicine, it's continued to make me trust more. in the plants and just like also myself. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah,