Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Recovering From Infidelity

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Recovering From Infidelity · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today, I'm going to talk about recovering from
• 0:11
  infidelity. So this is obviously a really
• 0:15
  complex topic beyond the scope of just a 20 minute podcast.
• 0:20
  But I can give you a little bit about what I think the
• 0:23
  overarching themes are of how a couple successfully recovers
• 0:28
  from infidelity or really any betrayal.
• 0:32
  So first, you need to think about Why this happened?
• 0:37
  There are a million different reasons and they're all going to
• 0:40
  lead to different sorts of paths toward recovery.
• 0:45
  So for example, if somebody is a sex addict and they're texting
• 0:49
  willy-nilly with, basically anybody possible on the internet
• 0:52
  and using porn all the time, this is going to be a very
• 0:56
  different situation than somebody who is involved in.
• 1:00
  A long-term individual love affair with somebody that they
• 1:04
  were very devoted to emotionally.
• 1:07
  So the tenor and the feel of the infidelity is going to, you
• 1:13
  know, strike the partner very differently and lead to very
• 1:16
  different paths. So, for example, I mean, if
• 1:21
  we're continuing with these two examples, somebody who is a sex
• 1:24
  addict then, and they were shown to be doing this, in all aspects
• 1:28
  of Life. They couldn't really engage
• 1:31
  without any individual therapy to treat this addiction.
• 1:35
  And by the way, this isn't like an uncommon thing, especially in
• 1:39
  the age of the internet. People get sucked, people who
• 1:42
  have addictive personalities, get sucked into this sort of,
• 1:46
  you know, there's Infinity apps and cam girls and back-and-forth
• 1:50
  sorts of Engagement. That people can have now that
• 1:53
  they didn't used to be able to have.
• 1:55
  So if you were in this sort of situation the person obviously
• 1:58
  needs individual treatment, whereas in the other situation,
• 2:02
  it's the person may say there's nothing.
• 2:05
  You know, wrong with me really that I was having this long-term
• 2:08
  affair with this one individual. And in fact, it was due to the
• 2:11
  marriage being difficult. Now that brings up an important
• 2:15
  point now, couples counseling is usually necessary for recovery
• 2:20
  from infidelity. I obviously help people with
• 2:23
  that other couples counselors do.
• 2:26
  It's not like you need that or otherwise you can never recover
• 2:31
  but it can be very useful particularly for anybody at
• 2:33
  psychologically minded as But who would be listening to this
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  podcast? So when you're in couples
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  counseling, you really need to First deal with the hurt and
• 2:43
  pain that the Betrayed partner is dealing with.
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  But also you can't villainize the other partner and the couple
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  should be encouraged. Not to do this at home.
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  Either make this kind of victim perpetrator Dynamic.
• 2:59
  Yes, there is one betrayed partner, but if that partner
• 3:03
  kind of descends into feeling victimized by a monster, you
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  know, unless the person truly is some sort of sociopath that that
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  was consciously purposefully hurting you, I mean, this is
• 3:17
  very unlikely situation, most of the time people cheat because of
• 3:21
  things within them, not because they are some sort of a sadist,
• 3:25
  they are feeling unhappy, they don't feel alive, they feel like
• 3:30
  stock, they feel dissatisfied, they feel Only whatever, you
• 3:37
  know. And so the couple's counselor
• 3:41
  and the couple in general really need to think about this, not as
• 3:44
  a victim perpetrator sort of thing, both of them need to be
• 3:48
  on the side of recovery for this to work.
• 3:51
  So if you find out about a partner's Affair and they look
• 3:56
  relieved and they're like, well yes, things aren't working.
• 3:58
  Well, you know, listen to them, don't try to fix a marriage with
• 4:02
  that person because this is what we usually call.
• 4:05
  An exit Affair. So the person was kind of trying
• 4:08
  to get up the balls to leave and now and almost maybe even hoping
• 4:12
  that you find out and now that you did, they do not want to
• 4:15
  work on things, they really didn't want to work on things
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  all along. It's kind of a cowardly move,
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  you know? But that is what it is.
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  And then you can separate in that case and in, you know, the
• 4:27
  person who's the Betrayed partner can be on their own path
• 4:30
  to recovery. But if we're looking at recovery
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  for a couple, both have to be motivated.
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  It and usually the first stage involves a lot of the betrayer
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  apologizing and kind of empathizing with how the
• 4:42
  Betrayed partner feels. But they're also.
• 4:45
  After a little, while of this has to be some shift to
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  understanding, why the betray the betraying partner did this
• 4:53
  because otherwise there's not going to be any growth in State
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  of Affairs, which I'll link you to buy Esther perel her book
• 5:01
  about infidelity. She talks about that, it's going
• 5:05
  to be Marriage 2.0. It's not going to be the same
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  marriage anymore and that is the case from what I see in
• 5:11
  counseling as well. So some people that do not
• 5:15
  recover well from infidelity, they ostensibly do because they
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  stay together but one Partners always treated as the villain
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  and the other one is always the victim for the rest of their
• 5:25
  lives. This is not a good version of
• 5:29
  marriage 2.0. This is not going to make
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  anybody feel better. And in fact, you know it's
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  Better to leave the marriage than to stay in a situation
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  where one person is considered a perpetrator and one person is
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  the victim till the end of time. What you want to work on instead
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  is for each person to deeply understand and empathize with
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  why this happened. And that is not blaming anybody,
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  but when people are not understood, they can't remain in
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  a healthy relationship nor would that be, what anybody would
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  want. For them, you know, including
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  their, you know, their own therapist, your children.
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  I mean, you know, like, nobody wants one person in the marriage
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  to just be the bad guy forever. That did something horrible.
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  That's completely, not understandable.
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  That does not lead to good outcomes and it doesn't lead to
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  actual growth and closeness for the couple, you know, in the
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  repair period. So first again, the betray the
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  Betrayed partner has to be understood how badly they felt.
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  But then the Praying partner also has to be understood and
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  their reasons as their Peril discusses can range from wanting
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  to feel alive again. You know, the majority of people
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  that cheat don't actually feel that dissatisfied despite what
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  media would have you believe they just have been feeling old
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  lost alone. Their life doesn't seem to have
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  any meaning and then when you combine this with a dopamine
• 7:03
  Rush of the attention of a new person, they Finally do feel
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  alive again, they feel more like themselves.
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  Like they used to feel like life is ahead of them instead of
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  behind them and this is a reason that many people cheat
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  especially if they're not really engaging in any other sort of
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  inner reflection to figure out how to reinvigorate their life
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  without this you know. So that would have to be
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  understood or of course sometimes they are very unhappy,
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  the marriage has been Loveless sexless, there's a lot of
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  fighting all the time and they just don't have the courage to
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  up and up and leave. Of, you know, or even to
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  confront the problem head-on. If you were not raised in an
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  environment where people directly communicated it, can
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  feel impossible to directly communicate dissatisfaction with
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  a spouse or if you were raised in a very negative home, you
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  feel paralyzed. Usually, by the thought of any
• 7:55
  change or any sort of courage to really change your life, which
• 8:00
  is what it is to either, confront dissatisfaction head on
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  and work on it or two To leave. So, unfortunately, sometimes
• 8:08
  people use infidelity as an escape mechanism and this isn't
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  good, but it has to be understandable by the other
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  partner, right? If we want to move forward at
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  all in the relationship. Now, in terms of what can the
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  person ever talk again to the affair partner know?
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  They can't really if the relationship is to move forward
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  with the primary partner because if you keep talking to your
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  Affair partner, that Keeps on upsetting your primary partner.
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  There is no friendship, you know, that can really happen
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  after this. That is kind of you know, you
• 8:43
  made your bed and now you have to sleep in it and it's not fair
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  to your to the Betrayed partner to have them you know have to
• 8:51
  worry all the time that something else is going to come
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  up with this person. So when somebody is like
• 8:57
  ambivalent or they're choosing between you and the affair
• 9:00
  partner that does not indicate to me, the sort of commitment
• 9:03
  that you know, It is necessary to work on infidelity recovery.
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  You know, only when somebody is Don and and or is trying very
• 9:15
  hard to be done and is actively working in counseling on how to
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  end it with the affair partner and has openly chosen, you know,
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  in a very black-and-white way. They have chosen the primary
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  partner. There's not supposed to be any
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  sort of compromise where they still got to remain friends with
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  the other person or clothes, or whatever.
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  Only when they are fully chosen their primary partner, can any
• 9:39
  sort of work on recovery baguette now what about
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  surveillance? Because a lot of people engage
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  in surveillance behaviors such as checking the person's phone,
• 9:49
  checking their email you know tracking them on a Life 360 type
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  of device. Well I mean there's all
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  different ways of thinking about this and usually the in the best
• 10:00
  case scenario the betraying partner feels so bad that they
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  We want to give the other full access even if that makes them
• 10:10
  feel embarrassed or kind of, you know, diminished or upset in
• 10:17
  some way to not have their privacy, they understand that,
• 10:20
  that is necessary as part of recovery.
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  So in a best-case scenario, it is offered but not usually
• 10:27
  looked at, you know, or if it is looked at it is looked at just
• 10:32
  about one specific thing rather than At least surveilling every
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  bit of data because that can be very tiring and it makes the
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  relationship into a police state, which many people would
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  rather not be together than be in a police state.
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  However, at least, at first for the first few months.
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  After any sort of betrayal with the fact that ubiquity of
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  smartphones, the email like everything that happens online.
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  It is unusual for me to see that somebody does not engage in this
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  sort of surveillance as as recovery, in fact, when I
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  started working in this area, you know, over a decade ago
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  there was not as much surveillance after this because
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  there just wasn't as much stuff done on phones, you know, but
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  now it's you know you got the whole thing, the whole schedule,
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  all the text messages, the emails is whole repository of
• 11:23
  data, you know, in your partner's phone, I barely know
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  anybody who doesn't look at that, you know, at least in part
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  to piece together, the story of what happened now piecing
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  together the story. Is an important part of healing.
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  And at this point is when the betraying partner ought to be
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  very clear about everything that they did and answer all of the
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  questions. Now, if the questions go on
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  forever, I mean, they don't, usually they go on for like a
• 11:52
  few nights in a row and then they crop up again in a week and
• 11:55
  then they crop up again and three weeks.
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  And then you know then you talk about them in therapy but by
• 12:00
  like about six months or so there shouldn't be constant
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  questions about piecing. Together, the timeline of an
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  affair unless there has been new data, you know.
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  I mean this is going to come up sometimes, you know, and it's
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  very common for people to be triggered for years by movies
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  with infidelity books, hearing about a friends and you know,
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  marriage, you know, ending because of infidelity or
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  whatever. But in terms of the late nights
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  where you're arguing and trying to piece together the affair and
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  saying that the person Trying to figure out where they were
• 12:36
  during this and were you dating her during that or this, that
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  stuff should tail off, if it doesn't, you know, I mean,
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  betrayal can also lead to PTSD reaction.
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  So, it's important for the Betrayed spouse to get their own
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  therapist and perhaps, even support group because they may
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  be having real PTSD symptoms of intrusive thoughts, inability
• 13:01
  sleeping, and this just like combat-related PTSD.
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  Is likely or if you've had a history of childhood abuse
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  betrayal related. PTSD is likelier.
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  If you've had other emotional abuse or neglect or betrayal in
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  earlier life. So if this has happened to you
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  before and or if you saw this growing up and or you are just
• 13:24
  insecurely attached, you've always had trust issues from
• 13:26
  childhood. And then this happens, then you
• 13:29
  may not just have trauma reaction.
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  The moment. This may actually lead to pee.
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  ESD reaction that is fairly severe and would need to be
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  worked on before it ruins your life completely day-to-day.
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  So overall, in counseling what we're trying to do is for the
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  partners to understand one, another better and to have more
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  empathy for each other's perspective and then to figure
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  out how to make it so that you have an actually new marriage
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  with different types of closeness and intimacy and
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  authenticity, which obviously, you did not have before.
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  One partner was like, you know, and that person frequently lies
• 14:09
  about a lot by the way, they don't, they're not only cheating
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  people that can cheat and have that sort of a double life are
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  people who likely lie in many areas and find this to be a
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  coping mechanism with their own underlying insecurity and
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  inability to express themselves. They may have learned it very
• 14:30
  early on, in their childhood, how to lie to get out of
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  trouble, you know, especially Chilean families of origin that
• 14:36
  were very black and white about good and bad.
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  They may have always been felt like they would get into trouble
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  if they didn't do X, and if they couldn't do X, if there were
• 14:46
  lots of rules or restrictions, then they learn to lie, you
• 14:50
  know? So this is a common path toward
• 14:52
  people lying, which is why family of origin.
• 14:55
  Work is very important. In both couples counseling for
• 14:58
  infidelity and for the individual therapy of both
• 15:01
  Partners. So the Betrayed spouse needs to
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  understand why. Why, you know, and how they are,
• 15:08
  they are impacted by this and what it brings up for them and
• 15:12
  how they could potentially recover their sense of normalcy
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  and self-esteem. Because it's a real Blow.
• 15:18
  By the way to find out that your partner is cheating on you.
• 15:21
  Not only does it make you feel bad, it also makes you feel
• 15:23
  stupid, you know, that you didn't see it and it can really
• 15:26
  screw up people's worldview if they think of themselves as a
• 15:29
  pretty smart Savvy. Person to understand that
• 15:32
  somebody was lying to you for x amount of years.
• 15:34
  Perhaps, You didn't even know so that can really distain belies
• 15:38
  your sense of self. Then on the other side, the
• 15:41
  other person needs to think. Why was I able to maintain a
• 15:44
  double life? What does this indicate about me
• 15:47
  and my relationship with the truth and my ability to kind of
• 15:52
  compartmentalize and to dissociate from my feelings?
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  You know what does this mean about my ability to have an
• 16:00
  authentic self? You know, it's really unlikely.
• 16:03
  Sometimes people think that they could be their authentic Excel
• 16:05
  file with the affair partner, but just not in their primary
• 16:07
  relationship that's really unlikely because usually people
• 16:11
  are lying to both people. You're not telling the affair
• 16:13
  partner, a lot of stuff about you and your marriage and who
• 16:17
  you are and the bad sides of you.
• 16:19
  And the part of you that still telling your wife, what she
• 16:23
  wants to hear or that still loves your wife on many levels
• 16:27
  and then you're not obviously telling your wife and I'm using
• 16:30
  wife just because I see more guys who cheat but there's
• 16:32
  plenty of women who cheat also see.
• 16:35
  Switch the gender accordingly. But anyway, the betraying
• 16:39
  partner, the cheater is the one who has to examine their
• 16:42
  relationship with the truth. And whether they have really
• 16:46
  been able to be their authentic self ever, or if they have kind
• 16:50
  of messed up views, usually dating from early life about
• 16:54
  romantic relationships and kind of a negative spin on them,
• 16:58
  they're more likely to feel constricted, they're less likely
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  to feel like relationships are Good inherently.
• 17:06
  You know they are likelier to use other people for mood
• 17:12
  regulation which is what it really is to be in an affair.
• 17:16
  You are kind of using that person for mood regulation.
• 17:19
  They are usually not getting what they want which is all of
• 17:22
  you because you remain married. So you know there's also that
• 17:26
  part two in their individual therapy is kind of understanding
• 17:31
  and unpacking more of what the affair was like in reality.
• 17:35
  What they idealize it as because most people that know, that
• 17:40
  somebody's cheating and remain as the other woman or man, they
• 17:44
  don't have terribly High self-esteem, you know.
• 17:47
  And they've got a lot of their own issues and exploring.
• 17:50
  The reality of this is sometimes a big wake-up call to people who
• 17:54
  were really romanticizing and idealizing their Affair.
• 17:57
  Oh, we were just two. Souls that Med and we were
• 18:00
  Kindred Spirits to you know saying wow I guess.
• 18:05
  Is that, you know, that woman that I met at, you know,
• 18:09
  CrossFit wasn't actually my kindred spirit, but a woman who
• 18:13
  probably always goes for married men.
• 18:16
  And actually did mention that she was in therapy and mention
• 18:20
  that she isn't close to her family and wow, the kind of
• 18:23
  sucks now that I think about it differently.
• 18:26
  Maybe she was kind of hurt by this as well as my wife, you
• 18:31
  know. So a fair you know, a fair
• 18:33
  partners are Frequently put on a pedestal as though they're this
• 18:38
  combination of this, you know. Jeff to really watch is the TV
• 18:42
  show the affair because Noah does this with his affair
• 18:45
  partner. He thinks she's just this sex
• 18:47
  goddess but she's just like this screwed-up woman and it's a
• 18:51
  really good show to watch to help with perspective taking its
• 18:54
  switches perspectives from the affair partner to the guy who's
• 18:58
  cheating. It's really good.
• 18:59
  So you should watch that at least a few First episodes of
• 19:02
  it. All right, so Anyhow, that is
• 19:05
  just really a rough overview of the various moving pieces in a
• 19:11
  fare recovery and things to think about when unfortunately
• 19:17
  if you find yourself in this scenario, now you can request
• 19:20
  more specific podcasts on any of those individual topics that I
• 19:27
  can get into on a more granular level.
• 19:29
  So, thanks so much for listening and I will talk to everybody
• 19:34
  soon. Remember to Subscribe to this
• 19:36
  podcast. The doctor psych mom show and
• 19:38
  write in with any topic suggestions.
• 19:41
  Thanks guys.