Latest / Gay Men Going Deeper / When It’s Time To Say Goodbye

Transcript

When It’s Time To Say Goodbye · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:02
  Speaker A: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper. This is a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. Today, I'm your host. My name is Michael Diario and I am a life and wellness coach specializing in self confidence, sexuality and relationships. Today's episode is about breakups, but we're going to be looking at them from a very specific lens today. Not all breakups are the result of an obvious issue or red flag or some major catastrophic event. Sometimes two people in a good loving relationship simply grow in different directions and that relationship doesn't work anymore like it used to. I like to refer to this as a completion of that relationship because it is the end of a cycle. The relationship has run its natural course and has reached its natural ending. This topic is very much alive for me as this is what transpired between me and my guest today. Star Semper. Star, go ahead and say hi to the audience.
• 1:02
  Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Great to be back. Thanks for having me, Michael.
• 1:06
  Speaker A: So formal today. Many, many of you know Star as my partner of the last three years. He's been on the podcast several times. We've let you guys into our relationship a few times, but we have decided to change our relationship. We are no longer pursuing our romantic relationship, but we do want to continue a friendship and even be part of each other's chosen family. So this was a very difficult decision to make for both of us, but it was mutual. And for those of you watching, you might be getting a kick out of this. So I am currently in Mexico for two months, which is my usual winter hiatus away from Canada. And this was planned well before we made the decision. And Star, if you can see, is at our home where I am normally sitting on our usual podcast. So he's got the usual Michael background, and I am here in Mexico. I wanted to share a little bit with you guys why we wanted to do an episode about this, because a few people have been asking, what's going on? Why did this happen? Why did we come to this decision? How did you do it? And, you know, I want to let you guys into that. I think we're ready to talk about it now. And also how we want our. Our relationship to change going forward. We've both had some time to process this, and I think we're ready to talk about it now. It is. It is very interesting to be on the other side of this. I think. Star, our first episode together was actually in Mexico a couple years ago. So it's a very natural book ending to this. Do you have anything you want to add, Star, in terms of why we wanted to do this episode?
• 2:41
  Speaker B: I think you hit all the points. We just wanted to give people a look under the hood of what, you know, it's like.
• 2:49
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so some of the questions we'll be answering today are how and why we came to this decision, the ins and outs of navigating our breakup. What are some boundaries that we've established that have helped us? How is this experience serving our own individual personal growth? What's next for us? And we'll be sharing some tips for others who may be navigating a similar experience. And I want to note before we jump in here, we are using our relationship, our romantic relationship, as the example here, but you can absolutely apply this to friendships, platonic friendships, a job, career, or other areas in your life where you might be questioning whether you've reached that natural ending, but you're not sure what to do about it. Okay? So take what we've. Take our experience here and apply it in your own life. All right, so question. Everybody wants to know, Star, what led us to the decision to mutually end our relationship? Do you want to start? Do you want me to start?
• 3:50
  Speaker B: You could start.
• 3:54
  Speaker A: Okay, I'm going to give a bit of background. So there's a notion out there that the only successful relationships are the ones that last forever. And people don't want to leave something, whether it's a relationship or job or whatever, because they will consider that to have been a failure on their part. And I personally disagree with that. I have seen many, as I'm sure you have, I've seen many unsatisfying, unhappy relationships where people stick together just for the sake of it. And those people are miserable, and that relationship is toxic and stagnant. Okay. At the same time, I've also had some amazing relationships which have been short and beautiful and extremely fulfilling and very expansive. But in those situations, we knew. We both knew when it was time. And I still love and respect and get along with those guys so much, even. Even now. And I'm grateful that we called it when we did. We called the end of that relationship when it was time. We saw the writing on the wall, and it was a tough decision, and we came to it. Some relationships are meant to last a lifetime, and that's fabulous when that happens, but some are not. And some have a very clear beginning, middle, and an end. And as I said, it's really about completion. So Star and I are at the phase of our relationship where the romantic aspect of it has reached a natural completion. Knowing when that is is extremely important, in my opinion, to your overall happiness, satisfaction. Because staying in something you know isn't meant for you is an absolutely terrible feeling because deep down you know you are lying to yourself, and that is an awful feeling. So to me, the failure isn't about failing the relationship. To me, the true failure is not listening to your intuition when you know it is time to say goodbye. When you stay in something for the wrong reasons, that's what gets you into situations where you end up lying, cheating, resenting each other. You treat each other terribly. It becomes a toxic living situation if you're living with that person. If you're in a job situation, it means. And I was there as well, it means you'll end up hating your job and being miserable to the people around you and creating a toxic work environment. So it's really important to know and call it when you've reached that natural ending. So, Star, what would you add to that? The how and the why from your opinion?
• 6:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, you said it beautifully, especially knowing when to call it. I think that's. That's what I learned from this, is identifying, like, when and when do we choose or when we decide that it's time. And, you know, when I reflect on where I came into the relationship and where I am now in the relationship, like, it's kind of helps. And this is all because of the work that you've taught me and the tools that you've equipped me with and being able to understand and identify that aspect. So, you know, I'm a lot more confident now and a lot more in tune with my emotions and inner voice to know. Okay, this is. This has blossomed into something beautifully. And I think our friendship is something that I would love to, like, keep. Yeah, blossoming.
• 7:17
  Speaker A: So I fully agree with that. And that's the hard part. Right. So many people have said, oh, yeah, everyone says that they're going to stay friends, and, you know, it doesn't always happen. I would like to think, and I'm not sure if this is true, but I would like to think that in the gay world it is a little bit more common because there are so few. It's so hard to find good gay friends out there. And having already established a relationship with someone that you get along with, especially in our case where there's been no bad behavior, so to speak, like, why not continue that? And I think, you know, it is possible for gay men to do that. Would you say the same, or do.
• 7:51
  Speaker B: You disagree oh, very much agree. I would say the same. Like I told you from the beginning, like, just, I'll be still there with family events. Just make sure you have that extra table setting. No matter where we are in our lives, I'll be there.
• 8:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's. That's a lot.
• 8:10
  Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 8:12
  Speaker A: But, I mean, it's. It stands to reason that that has helped us as well. So we'll get into that. So the next question that I hear a lot is, how did we navigate the process of doing so? It wasn't like one day we just both came to the same conclusion, woke up and said, oh, well, time's up. That's not how that worked. As nice as that might be, that would make it easy. So do you want me to start this one as well, Star?
• 8:36
  Speaker B: Yes, either.
• 8:39
  Speaker A: Okay. So, yes, this was very difficult. This, I would say, is the most difficult. It's easier to talk about it now in retrospect, which is another reason why I would say we're doing this episode is because I really want this to help people out there who are where we were. Right. Or where I was, at least. So, yes, this is a very difficult decision to make. I struggled with this for a while in my own head. And even after. Even afterwards with Star, I kept thinking to myself, if I'm happy in all of these ways, why would I leave? Why would I end this relationship? Why would we finish this? And this. I went through this for a very long time, was very tiring mentally to go through. And so what I realize is that you don't have to be unhappy in order to change something in your life. You could just change it because you want to. And if that change involves another person, such as a relationship or friendship or breakup, then it's really important that you communicate this with a sense of calm in your own mind first. I advocate for this in everything I do. Like, get clean in your own mind before you start bringing other people into it. Because if you don't, you're going to bring all that messiness into your conversations, and it's not going to be a good experience. So before, I had to do a lot of my own inner work around this before Star even was aware. Right. But once I came to terms with this in my own mind, I asked Star, basically I said, what, you know, what's your opinion of our relationship? How do you think this is going, truly? And we had a very honest conversation when the time was right. It didn't happen right away. I will say the open dialogue I will always thank you, Starr, for coming to that conversation with such an open heart and calmness. It was probably one of, ironically, our favorite heart to hearts that we've had on that couch. I'll never forget it. And what we did is we talked openly about our relationship and where it was going and whether we thought there was a future in it. The good thing is, I think, with Esther is that we usually talk about our relationship. So it wasn't like a surprise. It wasn't like, oh, okay, what's happening here? Because we are very open about our relationship. It wasn't the most surprising conversation, but neither of us, like, came out of that, like, hating each other. There was no big argument, no raised voices. It was, in my opinion, a very loving conversation. And in fact, I remember we had this beautiful embrace, and I felt so, again, ironically, so close with you after that. And we both agreed in that moment that the hardest part of this. Tears, of course, were flowing. Hardest part of this was going to be, you know, was not necessarily the breakup, but the potential to lose what we've built as a friendship over those three years.
• 11:10
  Speaker B: Which we're not going to lose.
• 11:11
  Speaker A: Which we're not going to lose.
• 11:12
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 11:12
  Speaker A: And, you know, now this is recorded and it's on air, so, like, we are committed.
• 11:16
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 11:18
  Speaker A: You guys have to hold us accountable. Okay. Um, yeah. So. So we didn't want to destroy everything we built. And that's. That's the whole beauty of this. Right. You don't have to destroy a relationship for it to end. You can decide together to change it. It's a very simple idea. I know, but it's not easy. No, it's not.
• 11:37
  Speaker B: Like, this is my first time actually doing it this way in all my life. Usually a breakup is, like, big, dramatic. I'm Caribbean and Pisces. Double whammy. Very dramatic and emotional. So this is my first time just, you know, going in to it with a different perspective. And as you said, it's not easy, but it's possible and it's beautiful and it's done.
• 12:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. Can I ask why? Why now? Why me?
• 12:07
  Speaker B: Why this relationship that I chose to do this?
• 12:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 12:11
  Speaker B: Because you taught me, like, from the beginning, I think in the early days, you. You talked about the kind of relationship you wanted and the kind of, like, values that you wanted to keep. And you've talked about, like, breakups being very easy and caught. And I'm like, this not gonna happen. But I think, I don't know, over time, understanding and learning and growing, I think that that's it. My growth has helped me identify and be able to, like, manage my emotions, manage my thoughts, and kind of be able to, you know, give that. And to me, no regrets. Was like, I. I would. I think this is my new. My new MO to just do it this way.
• 12:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it doesn't. It doesn't always work that way. So for our audience listening, I think it works. Like I said from the top of the episode, this is about breakups. Yes. But not every breakup is the same. There are very different circumstances around other breakups where there might be abuse involved or some actual experience where you do want to just end it and never talk to that person again. That's totally fair. Right. But that's not what's happening here. And I think that there are a lot of other relationships when I say, I think I know that there are a lot of you out there who are in similar relationships where you're wondering, should I stay or should I go? Is this the end or do we keep working on it? You know, do we use our conflict and our issues to grow together? Or is this the time to say goodbye? And that's really tough. So, yeah, in our case, it worked. I just want to reiterate that this is not a one size fits all thing. Sometimes the best choice is to just get the hell out of there and leave. Okay, so start question. What do you think have been some of our boundaries or guidelines that we established to make this uncoupling process smoother?
• 14:05
  Speaker B: And one thing we talked about was spending time to kind of process. Taking the time to process separately, whatever that looks like for each of us. That has helped me, and I know that has helped you as well as you mentioned. But I'll leave you to talk about it. Yeah. So taking. Spending time to reflect, it's like, honestly.
• 14:31
  Speaker A: Anything else you want to add? I could say mine. Then maybe that'll. I don't know, maybe you'll. You'll stimulate something within you. Sure. Okay. Yeah. So with respect to the space, I fully agree. I think. So we live together, for those of you who don't know. And sharing a home and seeing Star around all the time was very hard because I'm a naturally, very physically affectionate person. And so it was really hard for me personally to, like, have him in. In that space like we always have and, like, look at him in a different way. So as I said earlier, I'm in Mexico now. This trip was always planned. Right. So I didn't leave because of the breakup. But being here has really helped me because, you know, you're not. You're not there all the time, kind of triggering me. So it does help in that regard, too. And I agree. Processing it on our own, we made that agreement as well. Like, we leaned on each other in the beginning at first, which was beautiful. But eventually we had to, like, say, okay, we need to start leaning on our support system. Another thing is avoiding blaming. So try your absolute hardest to avoid blaming in these situations. Something that Star and I say to each other all of the time when we talk about our relationship. Even before this was, no one is at fault. It's not your fault. It's not my fault. We say that a lot, and it's true. So it prevents the other person from feeling they're being attacked, prevents defensiveness. And as we've talked about in previous podcasts, communication was something that we. We worked on a lot in our relationship because we have very different styles. So something I learned was. Was really to speak in terms of like me, like I. Statements like, here's how I'm feeling, here's what's working, here's what's not working. Here's what I want from my life. Like, talking about it from me, instead of looking at Star and saying, you're doing this and you're not like this. Right. Generally, we have better outcomes in those conversations. Would you add anything to that?
• 16:30
  Speaker B: No, I think. I think you've covered it for now. Yeah, I feel complete.
• 16:37
  Speaker A: How fitting. What a fitting thing to say. Okay, so let's talk about growth in one of our first episodes. I think our first episode we talked about together is, why do you want to be in a relationship? And we both agreed that personal growth was one of the things that we look for in a relationship. So. And in the same way as our relationship helped us grow in so many ways, individually and together, how has this process, specifically this breakup, allowed us to reflect on our own personal growth and life goals going forward?
• 17:10
  Speaker B: Do you want to start?
• 17:11
  Speaker A: You really want me to start this? Okay.
• 17:13
  Speaker B: Yes, please.
• 17:14
  Speaker A: Sure. Okay. So, um, this isn't going to come as a surprise to anyone who listens to this podcast regularly, but I journal a lot. I do a lot of inner work. And so one of the first questions I wrote in my journal after processing this was, what kind of breakup do I want this to be? And that is such an empowering question. And the answers I came up with were mature, civil, and respectful. Okay, I didn't say easy, because that's not really realistic, but I did want it. I do Want it to be mature, civil, and respectful. So another question I asked myself is, how do I want to emerge on the other side of this? So we all know breakups are hard. They're emotional, they take time. It's not just done right. So on the other side of this, I wanted to be empowered, compassionate, and not jaded or cynical as I see so many people do after a breakup is they become very jaded and cynical. And so I wanted to make sure that once all the dust was settled, that I was open to invite love into my life again. So what does that look like? What do I need to do in order to have those outcomes right? Obviously, respecting Star's boundaries, respecting the agreements we come to together, getting support from people when I need it. That includes, like, professional support and also support from my family and friends. Something I do and I've learned to do thanks to Star. He's taught me this, is to put myself in his shoes regarding anything that's involving our relationship. So any decisions that really affect the both of us before just steamrolling or bulldozing, as I perhaps used to do or sometimes still do, is ask myself, okay, how would this feel from his perspective? Because if the outcome is that I do want to maintain a friendship, then I can't just throw his feelings away. So what that doesn't look like. So asking myself the same question is if I want to be mature, civil, respectful, and I want a friendship with him afterwards, what that doesn't look like is me talking shit about him is me wallowing in my emotions. Now, wallowing is different than processing. I am not advocating that you don't process emotions. I am absolutely saying you do process them. But doing so in a way that grows you, builds you up, and, you know, makes you feel eventually better, not right away. Wallowing is different. Wallowing is indulging in it over and over and over, repeating it, just kind of staying in it because it feels good or some other reason. And then, of course, as I often say, is being my own BFF through it. So knowing I can't always rely on other people, sometimes I need to just look at myself in the mirror and say, michael, you're going to be fine. I love you. You got this. I did that all the time. I still do. Still do. And then, of course, honoring my intuition. So being honest with myself that those. Those are some of the things that. That I've been doing.
• 20:11
  Speaker B: Oh, I came about this in a different angle. I was more thinking about what the entire relationship has taught me and what I Can take from it instead of, like, what the breakup itself, which in itself, it's kind of the same thing, because for me, the learnings that I got from the breakup is what I learned throughout the entire relationship, which was understanding my mindset, which is something I didn't do before. And I didn't understand it, of course, I didn't know anything about it. And appreciating it now and hearing that thinker, that voice, that you believe it so much that it's true. And sometimes I used to run on, I don't know, not facts. I would think it's facts. I would pull facts from thin air and run with it. And it's like, this is the truth. And I've learned to, like, identify that. And that's something I would really never forget and hope to continue developing throughout my journey. And that has helped me manage and, you know, be a better person now and manage the breakup. That. This completion. I'd say yes.
• 21:26
  Speaker A: Maybe we should start calling it that.
• 21:28
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:29
  Speaker A: It helps me. It really does. And when I work with clients, whether they're completing a relationship or a job, it helps to look at it in that way, because breakup has so much negative connotation to it. And, you know, breakups are hard, and they are hard. I'm not saying that this is easy. It is very emotional, of course. But when you look at it, as I said, like, everything has a natural beginning, middle end, and we've reached it, for me, it brings a bit more peace. Like, it helps me come. Come to a place of peace with.
• 21:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
• 21:58
  Speaker A: Anything else you want to add on that?
• 22:00
  Speaker B: I think that's it.
• 22:01
  Speaker A: No. Okay, so let's. Let's get accountable now to our audience here. So what's next for us? How do we plan to maintain a positive connection and friendship going forward?
• 22:14
  Speaker B: Well, I think that one thing we had that kind of helps us in our relationship and our friendship is communication. I think we. Even though we communicated differently, we still always had it. And I think that that is something that we should keep and focus on going forward.
• 22:39
  Speaker A: And what's next for you personally?
• 22:44
  Speaker B: Oh, well, for me, there's a lot of changes. It's happening right now. I have to manage these changes, you know, finding a new level of independence and just. I don't know. I don't want to say going out there alone, because I don't feel alone. Yeah. But, yeah, it's. It's a new chapter, and I'm. I'm leaving it open to be written.
• 23:18
  Speaker A: I love that. Yeah, yeah. It's usually the best way when you're going with too many expectations. It's hard.
• 23:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:24
  Speaker A: Yeah. That said, though, expectations is one thing, intentions is another. So I would say for me, in answering this question, how do we want to maintain a positive connection, friendship? We don't know what the future holds. You know, I'm a firm believer that I think it's, you know, what's. What's that saying every time you have a plan, you know, God laughs at your face, like, yeah, right. So I. I'm not as arrogant to think that I know exactly how the future is going to go. But I will say that my intention 100% is to. Is to stay committed to this friendship. We get along famously, we have so much fun together, and we make each other laugh. So I don't want to throw that away. And as I said, that would be for me, in many respects, the hardest thing. Like, if we had to go through this all again and it'd be like the ending of our friendship, that would be like having to retraumatize myself all over the ground. So the question is how. Now we talked about respecting each other's boundaries. I think for me, one of the things that I try to remember, and this is not being any rush, that we need to be like best friends today. For me, I'm not. I personally need a bit of space for myself, my own mind, to, like, process and define what is our new normal. It takes time for my emotions to adjust. Even seeing you on screen, like in our house, like it. There's work for me to do. So I don't think it's fair to say, oh, poof, we're best friends now. I think that just being patient and asking you to be patient with me as well and honoring that. These emotions come in waves. I had some emotions even just preparing for this. It was really tough thinking about, thinking about it and not talking about it openly because I am ready to talk about it openly. But there are still a lot of feelings in there. And I know that those feelings come in waves. And it's not just, okay, I'm done now, and just processing it when they do come.
• 25:18
  Speaker B: Yes, agreed. It's not easy. Definitely not easy.
• 25:21
  Speaker A: Yeah. And the truth is, like, when I. When I take all of the mental noise away when I just look at Star, and this is always something I. I thought of even. Even if, let's say we were having a conflict, at the end of the day, when I look at this man, I love him and I have A great deal of love for him and respect for him. And I think that this speaks to us honoring the end of that cycle. If I didn't listen to that and if you started listen to that like intuition or that thing and we didn't have to talk about it, if we had kept going for another year or two in a romantic relationship, I'm not sure I would have felt the way I feel about you now, which is again, this great deal of admiration, love and respect. I truly do want to see Star succeed in life. You know this. I'm your biggest fan. I've never been shy about that. I wanted to be happy, healthy. I think he's a catch. So all you guys out there who have been coveting him and I know you have, he's now single. He gets my five star review. If you want someone who's. Who makes you laugh and is very nurturing, Stars your man.
• 26:28
  Speaker B: So thank you. You've been so kind and I'd also like to echo the same sentiments. You have helped me so much be the same person that you see through this growth and I would definitely say give my five stars on Yelp as well.
• 26:49
  Speaker A: So Google, Google, do Google.
• 26:54
  Speaker B: It's so hard to like, say. Well, not hard, but it's weird to be like, oh, single now. It's different.
• 27:02
  Speaker A: Yeah. But I think though, being. Being open, so we were in an open relationship, so I think that makes it a little bit easier because in many ways, like, we weren't. Our openness was that I had already seen you with other guys, so that part was. That doesn't faze me. And obviously I do know you're a catch. But again, being able to talk about it now, the way I am speaks to the fact that I've done a lot of work on this in my own mind because I wouldn't have been able to be so forthcoming and open about this in the past.
• 27:30
  Speaker B: True. And you know, always be there supporting you and your business and all your endeavors. Whatever you want to create, I'll be there too.
• 27:38
  Speaker A: So thank you. And you know, it's funny is I do this all the time. I don't know if you catch it, Star, but I still call you baby. Like, even says, like, hey, baby. Like I. That's going to have to. I'm going to have to make a very conscious choice to turn that off eventually. But yeah, I still call you that. Which I'll have to work on.
• 27:56
  Speaker B: That's fine. It's friends.
• 27:58
  Speaker A: Yes, that's true. I do too, actually. You're Right. Yeah.
• 28:02
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 28:04
  Speaker A: Okay. So before I wrap up, let's. Let's give some advice to our listeners and viewers out there. I think that there's a lot of people. If you think back to where we were, right, when this was all going on, there was a lot of emotions, there's a lot of struggle, there's a lot of challenge. Now people are seeing us kind of emerging on the other end of it, and they may be thinking, oh, wow, that sounds really nice. I want some of that. Or, I like how they're going about that. Or if you're not even sure whether you are in a situation where you do think, oh, maybe this is the end, but I'm not quite sure. What advice would you give to anyone who's kind of going through that right now?
• 28:40
  Speaker B: Just listen to that internal thought that you have that some people call it instincts or intuition. Just that second voice is, listen to it, give it a mic to just speak, hear it and communicate. Like, just communicate with your partner or whatever that looks like. If it's a friendship or a job or whatever, just letting the other person know where you are helps to make the situation a lot less jarring.
• 29:11
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agreed. I have two. One, for the people who are not sure or they're questioning whether they reach the end of a relationship or a cycle. Take your time to consider this carefully in your own mind. First, as I said, look inwards for the answers. Because if it is something that is like that, then if you're looking externally for your partner to be an asshole or for your job to do something terrible, you're not going to find it there, because it's not about that. You have to look inward. You have to ask yourself some questions about compatibility. And as I do, I wrote some down for you guys who are listening right now. So do you have the same core values in life? Are you growing together in terms of creating a future together that you are excited about? Do you like who you are when you're with him? Do you grow from your conflicts? Or do you stagnate and have the same conflicts over and over and over again without any growth? Remember, conflict is good in a relationship. We could use it to grow. You could use it to evolve. It's a wonderful thing. You can even use it to become closer. But sometimes, if you're having the same conflicts over and over and over again without growth, that might be a sign. Now, these are not, by any means, the only four questions you can ask yourself. This is just a small tip of the iceberg starting point. For you guys. And if you do want more support on that, you can always let me know. Now, for those of you who are listening to this and are saying, oh, no, no, I know that it's the end. I know that the time has come and I'm just too afraid to do it or I'm not doing it for some reason. I want encourage you that not to waste time. If it's in a relationship and you're with this person, you're just leading them on. If you have no intention of staying with them long term, and if you do keep it up, as I said earlier, you'll just end up in resentment and regret. Now is the time. Now is the right time. If you're going to do it. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to your future self. Because I like to think of that future self as saying, girl, get out of this. Like, get out of this job. You're not. It's not serving you right. You don't go start looking for another job or this relationship isn't. Isn't for you. You have to get out of it. And you know when you know. Right. That intuition, like Star said. Yeah. Anything else you'd add to that, Star?
• 31:23
  Speaker B: I'm just like, completion isn't bad, you know, it's different. And I'm not saying it's easy, but it just opens another door for it. To me, it's like, raises the ceiling for more growth. You never know where you're going to end up. Like, life is unpredictable. You know, if. If it's time and you know it, take this step to advance and grow, you know?
• 31:50
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:51
  Speaker B: Don't be afraid.
• 31:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, it is. It is for sure a fear thing. For me. It was. And so doing that work was really helpful. And I will say this. If it's, if it's a partner you're with, they might be feeling the same thing. Right. They might be like, also in that same space, like Star had been and like, huh. You know what? Maybe there's something here. Maybe. Let's explore this together. What would it look like if we consciously uncoupled, I think is. Is the word that you had used, right? Yeah.
• 32:19
  Speaker B: Yeah. That's what the young people are saying these days.
• 32:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. I think there's. I think there's a book or there's a. It's a thing. I don't know too much details about it, so I won't speak to it, but I love that concept. Right. A conscious uncoupling. So, yeah, who knows? Maybe your partner will also feel the Same way. And as Starr said, you know, there's great things on the other side of the comfort zone. Okay. Anything you want to add before I wrap up?
• 32:40
  Speaker B: Star, I just. Just want to, like, thank you publicly for being a beacon of light and not just for myself. I know a lot of people look to you for advice, support, and guidance, so I'm just thankful that you do these things and you. You. You know, you. You put your hat on and release their ship. So thank you for that and appreciate it and can't wait to see more beautiful things from you. I'll be right there. Anyway, so.
• 33:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, you will be. Thank you. That means a lot. And thank you as well for letting the viewers and listeners in, because we've let them into our relationship a few times, and we've been very open when our in our relationship. And so it takes a lot of courage to show up and bear. Bear our souls with the people. And I obviously wouldn't have done it without you, so thank you.
• 33:34
  Speaker B: Yes. And, guys, you heard it here, so if you hear any rumors or anything going around, it's right here. Use this video.
• 33:41
  Speaker A: Very true. Yes. The gays do love to create drama where there is none. So you got the facts here from the trusted sources. Okay. All right. So for our viewers and listeners out there, thank you for joining us. I want to close with this. If there's anything you take from this episode, take this. That good buys are a very natural part of life. Sometimes they happen against your will, and that is terrible, and that sucks in its own way. But sometimes you get to steer the ship. You get to consider the idea that goodbyes can be good. It's in the word goodbye. Not bad.
• 34:14
  Speaker B: Bye.
• 34:15
  Speaker A: You can't have a goodbye. And so you can leave your job or your relationship or a friendship full of love and gratitude in your heart for that person, for that job, you can decide that this simply just isn't working for you anymore. And you can move on peacefully and respectfully without having to destroy everything, without having to tear it all down and throwing the baby out with bath water. Not every relationship is meant to last forever, and that is okay. It's not a bad thing. Okay. So for anyone navigating a goodbye, if you are not sure whether you should stay or you should leave, please do reach out. I'm happy to support you through this. It's very alive for me right now. So I have got a lot of insight I can offer you. Or again, whether it's a relationship or friendship or even a job, I'll leave my info in the show notes as it always is. Star, do you want your info in the show notes? If people want to reach out to you. Yeah. All right, cool. If you want, you can reach out to Star. I'll put his info in the show notes and thank you guys for sticking with us. And we'll see you on the next episode. Bye.