Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Patreon Release: More Reality TV with Annie Sieg

Transcript

Patreon Release: More Reality TV with Annie Sieg · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Happy holidays, Team Tolerator. I really hope that whatever you
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: are doing this holiday season, it brings you joy and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: dress and gets us ready for whatever we are going
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to be facing in twenty twenty five. You will be
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: happy to note that that's when we will start releasing
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: new episodes of To All the Men I've Tolerated before again.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: While we are on our holiday break, you can enjoy
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: our still comfy episodes with Julia Washington from pop Culture
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Makes Me Jealous that will be posted on our feed,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: as well as some Patreon content that I am going
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: to release to the free feed that was previously only
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: available to our Patreon members. If you are really missing
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: new content, please go check out the Patreon. There are
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: so many Team Tolerator check ins and misogyny meltdowns waiting
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: for you, and I will still be making short content
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: on our socials, so make sure that you are following
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Men I've Tolerated pod and TikTok
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: at Natalie K one two four. All of that will
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: be in the show notes. I will see you in
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: the new year. Happy holidays again, and see you soon,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Hey Tolerators, listens to All the Men I've tolerated before
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: with Natalie Katona, the show where my guests and I
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: chat about how misogyny is ever present in everything that
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: we watch and happens to be a huge money maker.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I'm happy today because I need to spend time with
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Annie s for like an entire hour. This never happens
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: for us. Uh. You remember her from Our Bodies's Art
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: episode and our first fireside Lie. Annie, thank you so
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: much for being here to talk about our one true love,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: reality television.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I am thrilled to be here to talk about reality TV.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: It is my deepest and most disturbing obsession. I can't
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: wait to get into it.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: My mother immediately became disappointed in me, not because of
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Reality TV, but because I told her I was still
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: watching Grey's Anatomy.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a hard one.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: That's a hard It's because I just finished This is
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Us and I mentioned it, and she's like, I stopped
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: watching This is Us on like episode six, and I
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: was like, fair, fair, fair, I'm still watching Gray's Anatomy. Okay.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I tried to get into This is Us because as
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: a kid, my Leavento Meglia or however you pronounce his
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: last name on Gilmore Girls like lit My Fire Baby
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: that was a developmental, like Crush Timeline, and so I
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: tried to get into this as us just for the
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: my love of it all. Yes it's not my flavor,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: but I didn't stick it out for Grace. But there
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: was a time in my life where several seasons of
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Grey's Anatomy, you know, they were there for me in
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: the hard times.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: At this time, I think Shonda's just writing episodes for me.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I don't talk to anyone else, and they're like, I'm
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: still watching Grace too. Good for you for like being loyal.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: It's just me.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: It's just you and Shonda just having your private time, right.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It's just me and Shonda. And then months later my
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: sister will just binge them all. But I also keep
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: her up to date on every episode. I'm like, this
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: is what will piss you off about Owen this season?
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: De Luca Dead.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, now you're making me feel like I need
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: to go back to that well again. Don't do this
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: to me, Natalie. We're here for reality TV. Don't put
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: me back on another scripted drama.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I asked myself once a week if I should be
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: rewatching Gale.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think you should.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: No one thinks I should, but every once in a
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: while it comes up and I'm like, should I be
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: rewatching Glee?
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Follow Your Heart? I read something early on in the
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: pandemic because everyone immediately flocked to like whatever their comfort
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: TV was, and it was all like rewatching and then
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: everyone got lost in these weird cycles of having to
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: consume the same things over and over again. And I
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: read something about how it was like an anxiety response,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: where the world is like so scary and uncertain now
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: that it's comforting for us to just consume things that
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: we already know exactly what's going to happen. We could
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: recite the lines along with it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: It's weird, which is why I think early see, I'm
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: going to bring it back to reality TV. Early in
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the Pandemic, I got really invested in watching every season
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: of Survivor, and then six seasons in I realized that
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: it's always a different island, but we're always playing the
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: same games in the same order. I was like, wait
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: a minute.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a few staples of reality TV that
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I just somehow like, once we get talking, you will
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: probably discover that I have seen a truly disturbing amount
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: of reality TV, and yet a couple of the like
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Core Fundamentals, just Missed Me Survivors, one that I don't
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: think I've even ever seen an episode of Big Brother
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: is another one where I'm like, who's she? I don't
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: know her, I don't know, but I hear good things.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I think, if anything, I've steered away at this point
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, I can't take that on. There's too
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: much history there.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: So Big Brother does this thing that I would like
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the Bachelor franchise to implement, and I think it would
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: really like re up my interest in Bachelor Nation. And
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Big Brother does something called Big Brother After Dark, where
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: you can watch a live stream of them when the
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: camp when all of the producers have gone home, and
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that's what I want to see. I want
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: to see what they really talk about when we're not
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I want to watch sit awkwardly in a room trying
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: to share the same magazine.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: See the Bachelor is. I'm glad we're diving into that
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: one right away because I have a lot of feelings
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: about The Bachelor and the Bachelorette, Bachelor and Paradise and
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Bachelor Pad and all the varies. Bachelor of poutrement. But
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I in my brain, Bachelor is like kind of segmented
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: away from a lot of the other reality shows in
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: that a lot of reality shows are about like really
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: digging in and exposing like the true gnarliness of humanity,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and Bachelor and Bachelorette are this like very controlled different
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: thing where it's like they're trying to kind of hide
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: how gross people are and make it a love story.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: But then they also know that we want the trash,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: so then they try and fabricate a like a controlled
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: burn of the trap, so they just it's it's a
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: weird one. It feels more to me like a scriptodrama
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: than a reality show.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, they manipulate us from the get go. I
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: remember because I've been watching, well, I recently broke up
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: with the Bachelor franchise, but I watched from the beginning
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: from that ugly guy Bob Bob g something from Ugly Bob,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: where it was just that like a guy with a
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: goofy ass nose and chubby cheeks and like bad hair,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm the Bachelor, And there were there
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: was Chris Harrison and that guy who may have also
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: lost a job at American Idol, like there were two.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Hosts they the Bachelor. At this point, it's probably tacky
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: to plug a podcast on another podcast.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: What we do.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: The only way that I still had im so plugged
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: into The Bachelor and the Bachelrette at this point is
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: through the podcast Game of Roses, which they basically am
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: obsessed with it. They're these hosts that like analyze the
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Bachelor and the Bachelorette as if it is like a
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: professional sport, and they have like point assignments for different things.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: They talk about different approaches, and they they rank hoojuos,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: which is the hug jump. They talk about like the
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: dismount the kling, like you know, they like deep analyze
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: what's going on, and they also do weekly updates on
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: like what the various people in that world are doing
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: on their social media after they leave the game and
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: all the kind of drama. And I love hearing that
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff, But when I go to watch the
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: actual episodes, they're really boring.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: They're really boring. That's why I've stopped watching. I remember
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the golden days of the Bachelor and the Bachelorrett when
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: it was the trashiest show on TV, and we weren't
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: owned by the Mouse and the House because I hate
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Disney now yea, So we weren't owned by Disney, so
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: we could do like scandalous like blur out a nip
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: slip or like get really drunk and belligerent. I believe
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: that someone did fall in a bush at some point.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: One chick was communing with aliens one season, like it
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: was just unhinged, and you were like, yes, and so
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I think Disney owning ABC made them cool their shit down.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: But I also think that a scripted show Unreal where
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: they took up where they took like a bunch of
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: autobiographies from Bachelor contestants, and also someone who worked for
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: the Bachelor franchise worked on that show for lifetime when
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: they started spilling secrets like we hire therapists and then
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: we used your trauma against you during interviews, so you cried.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Then ABC was like, all right, well they're catching on
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and we're going to get sued. So well.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: The other part of the problem is that like the
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: fundamental premise of the show doesn't hold up because the
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: entire thing of like it's about love and true love
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: and finding your person. Well, first of all, it's obviously
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: not because the producer doing everything they can to make chaos,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: so like that's not them trying to help you. And
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: then if you look at the track record, there's been
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: eight zillion seasons of this show and like three people
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: from it are still married, and they're probably married mostly
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: for financial reasons. Yeah, which I mean, no shame in
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: that game, do you hunt, but it's for them to
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: still be clinging. Like now we're reaching this weird point
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: where people are familiar enough with the strategy of the
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: game and the different kind of archetypes that you can
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: fit into and all of that that people are going
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: into it with like game plans in mind and strategy
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: in mind. And then when that comes out, then there's
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: this response of you're here for the wrong reasons, but like,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: very clearly those are the reasons everyone is therefore, Yeah,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: so it's it's really losing its grasp on things.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Well. And then this is also why I stopped watching
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: The Bachelor Bachelorette because they lie to me all the time.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: And then I'll listen to these people who I have
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: been manipulated into not trusting and hating and being all like,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: what a terrible person, and they'll go on someone else
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: this podcast, and you hear them start to dem intle
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: like this is the exact moment that the producers decided
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I would be the villain, and from that point on,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: anything and everything I did was misconstrued by not only
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the showrunner, but by the house as well. And I'm like, oh.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, and like they very clearly
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: are carving out how they want things to go, and
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: then sometimes they literally can't win it. Like Claire Crowley season,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: she like five seconds into it was like that one.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I picked that one, and they were like, can't do that,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: and she was like, I did.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I did? You know? I stopped him on Instagram. I
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: made up a story in my mind about him, and
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I've decided that he's the one that I will wed.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: And then that was the greatest moment of Bachelor history.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: For one thing. Like Claire Crawley is our famuously oldest bachelorette,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: she was thirty eight by the time she got her
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: own season.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Ancient ancient.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: She had been on countless seasons of Bachelor in Paradise,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: if not all of them, probably Bachelor pat.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I think she did bachel their Winter Games. If I she.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Also did well she almost married a guy off of
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: the Winter Games. That was when they took That's when
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: they took all of the Bachelor franchise from all around
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the world and held an Olympic event.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was strange. That was a strange one, and
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: you were like, okay, I'm sure, uh like ice dancing.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: It was so random.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was the runner up of her Bachelor season,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: but for whatever reason, they never hired her as a bachelorette.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: They just kept her around as this unhinged bitter lady
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: who was like, I can't believe that I haven't found love,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: and it's like, well, have you ever seen how they
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: produced you? And tried to counter at that.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I also feel she got kind of like the Jennifer
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Aniston treatment, where like America decided back when the Brad
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: pit Angelina Jolie Jennifer and something happened, America just like
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: collectively decided that we felt like love and pity for
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Aniston and that she was just like hopeless and
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: could could never find a man, which is insane because
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: she's like stunningly gorgeous and successful and again had just
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: been with Brad Pitt, like leave the girl alone. But
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: then anything that fits into that narrative becomes like sensationalized.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, you know, she broke up with so
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: and so, Jen is lost again. She just can't do it,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, calm down, and I feel like
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: clut Jen. Yeah, And with Claire was like, oh, Claire's
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: heart broken again. She just has the worst luck in love.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: And it was like, well, is that what's happening or
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: is this just a weird narrative of your building right?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Or does she only date within the sencestual ABC dating service? Uh?
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Well? And psychologically to be the type of her and
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: that not only gets involved in a reality TV show
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: like on that level, but then chooses to return to
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: that format over and over again despite seeing how wild
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: it is, Like there's there's something there. Yeah, psychologically, that's probably.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: And I remember.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Texting my friend that of course this would happen on
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Claire season. Claire. Claire gets to be the bachelorette, and
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I truly believe it's because everyone else told them no,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Like they heard enough knows that they were like, Claire
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: will do it.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Well, if I'm remembering correctly, I think that time wise,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: that was right after they'd had like a massive scandal.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: I think that was right after the season where they
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: had the first black bachelor and then the winner. There's
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a very loud garbage truck right outside of my window
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: right now. I am very sorry.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: That's okay. We I'll be cut it out and post
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: or the listeners can listen to how we Live and.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: So garbage oloyo.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I was recording and they decided to powerwash with no warning,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: and I was like, are you kidding me? They're just
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: spraying this window. Claire was right before Matt James, who
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: was the first black bachelor.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I could totally be wrong. I had thought that she
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: was after Matt James, and it was them trying to
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: like play Kate America a little bit, being like, look,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: we'll give you an old one. You like old these.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: But I could totally be wrong. I think she was
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: right before.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Matt because then so it went Rachel. No, Rachel was
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: a while ago, but when it comes to people of color,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: it was Rachel and then Taysha. I think Tasha was.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Before Matt and took over for Claire. For Claire, right,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: that would mean that Claire would have me before Matt too.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: If Taysha was before Matt.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: H Yeah, so it went Rachel, Tasha, Matt. I think
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: if I'm remembering things correctly, because Matt was also at
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the till end of COVID. By the time Matt was
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: done and then they had Michelle, I think, are.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: We right now at the tail end of COVID figures when.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: So, of course Claire gets the COVID season where they
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: have to stay in a lakinta and just be sequestered
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: into their rooms until Chris Harrison knocks on your door
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: and is like, you get to come out now for
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: a champagne.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: The fact that the show continued to forge ahead through
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: that is wild. I mean, I understand there's a lot
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: of money wrapped up and all of that, and people
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: were still desperate for entertainment, But like part of the
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: beauty of all of these shows, and this will probably
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: accidentally do my transition to my next reality topic, which
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: is The Real Housewives, But in any of these categories,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: like part of what you're looking for is this escapist
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: quality of like the Housewives, the Kardashians, the Bachelor. There
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: are people wearing glamorous outfits and taking private jets and
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: going on on like unimaginably fancy dates and you get
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: to be like a little voyeur into that process. And
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: so to watch a bunch of like stressed out people
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: in a lakinta crying was.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Like, this is not what I were not it? No,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: thank you, you can keep that this is not it. Well,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: so let's go into the Real Housewives, because I think
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the Real house Housewives is a perfect example of how
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: reality TV chooses to depict women.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I think. So I'm a big defender of the Real Housewives.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I love them, not all of them, because like obviously,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: some of those women are truly monsters. Most of those
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: women are truly monsters. But I have a theory that
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: part of the reason that we are finally today starting
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: to see movies and TV shows that focus around women
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: who are older because we are We're seeing the actresses
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: like Jessica Lang or what's your name? Who's on.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Shoot You?
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Shoot Hats the the lead and had Jean Smart. All
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: of these women who are like older women tremendously talented,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: have been around forever, are finally getting to not just
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: be like backup roles, but primary characters. I think it's
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: because Real Housewives has proven that people are interested in
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: a story based around an unhinged older women that they
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: still have drama. We're interested in they still have stories
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: that are super worth telling. They are compelling characters and
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: that the public will watch things that are about.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Them, right because we love to watch an old lady
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: flip a table. Hell yeah, that's cool with how cool
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: as how everyone wished that their grandma arguing aunt would
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: honestly flip the Christmas table at any moment.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's something so satisfying in like, because they
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: are these extremely wealthy, privileged people who just live these bizarre,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: charmed lives. Not only did you get to witness the
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: charmed lives, but the things that they get upset about
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: are so studpid. I mean, sometimes something valid happens, sometimes
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: someone's house gets broken into, or someone gets really sick
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: or whatever it is. But for the most part, it
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: is these massive arguments about like you didn't send me
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: a thank you note when I gave you a jar
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: of my husband's homemade pasta sauce, and now I hate you.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And I speak you. I'm gonna throw this fasta sauce
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: at you during your during your son's wedding, and I'm not.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Saying I've never been very emotional over a stupid topic before.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: It's basically my go to vibe. But it's just when
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: you have that much in your life, when you're that
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: rich in your life, is that like glamorous to be
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: distraught over something so stupid it's entertaining.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: So my favorite trop or my favorite thing to kind
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: of go into is how we build up these people
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to be the exact circus that we want them to
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: be until we get tired of it and then we're like,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: we hate you and you don't deserve money anymore. So
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which was by far
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: one of my favorites, segued into my favorite reality TV show,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: vander Pump Rules.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, you're setting up the exact
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: conversation of vander Rump Rules. We've got to talk about jacks.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: And we have to we have to talk about all
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: of them. So vander punk Rules is about Lisa vander
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Pump's restaurant Pump.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: And it's excuse me, ma'am, it's about sir. Restaurant Pump
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: sometimes featured, but get it straight, correct.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Correct sir, and the weight staff and the weight staff.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: When vander Pump Rules started out, is all of these
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: twenty to twenty three year olds and then maybe Jackson's
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: twenty eight.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, I have bad news for you. Jackson I think
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: was fully in his thirties when the show started. I
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: think he was at least thirty years old, which is wild, wild,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: So that years old.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: They are the bartenders and wait settap of sir, And
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: they're all in their lower twenties unless you're Jacks. And
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: then and they're unhinged and they're young and they want
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: to be actors and actresses, so they're constantly like blowing
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: off shifts or whatever to do their own thing. And
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: then Bravo was like, this is a group of people
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: the world should be exposed to. And I was, and
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I was in I love them. But then ten years
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: into me watching Vanderpunk Rules and watching these very vapid,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: idiotic people become grown ups, I started to root for
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: them because I was like, look at them, Stacy's getting
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: her shit together. Both nice.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, I'm suspicious. I'm highly suspicious of both, but I
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: understand others life him.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I like bo But anyways, they were starting to get
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: their shit together. They were still a hot mess, because
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: you have to be that's what your career is based
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: off of. But they were like the heinous had worn
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: off of them. But could we be happy about that? No,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: America decided to dig into their past of being a
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: twenty two year old idiot.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: No, I got to defend on this one. I don't
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: get wrong. I am just straught that the Coog's got
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: booted because it was good TV. However, a lot of
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: the past was not that far back. Well that's a
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: lot of the stuff that it had happened was like
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: pretty active and recent and pretty Oh no.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Was it recent? Because I went back and watched all
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: of the first seasons thinking that that's when it happened.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I wanted to see it happen, and it never aired.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: No, it didn't air the okay, so the main things. Okay,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: So where to begin in all this? I have so
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: many thoughts and play a band of funk. First of all,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: before I even dive into that, I googled it to
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: be sure, and in season one, according to Google, Jacks
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: was thirty three when the show started.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: So Jax was my age.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Now yeah, when the show started. So no excuse, not
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: that there is an excuse for his behavior, but like wowsers,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: so okay. The challenge is that the reason we loved
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: vand Pump Rules is because these people are human garbage.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: And I know you're saying like they were getting it together.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: They weren't.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: They were getting it together, but like Jack's legitimately had
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: an affair on like a recording with a woman while
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: she was taking care of an old woman in hospice,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: like and then they played the recording of it at
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: a party where his fiance could here, Like they were not,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: nothing was over.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: They were garbage people. I'd like to retract my statement.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I think COVID gave me too much faith in people.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Gave you too much faith. That's it. That's only what
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: happened to you. Everyone else lost faith. But the problem
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: is that we celebrated them and we loved watching the
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: show because of how garbage they were. The truth of
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: the matter is that if there'd been a show about
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Stassy being happy with bo and Jack's suddenly behaving himself
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and everyone getting along, we would not like that show.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: No we wouldn't.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: But when you cross a certain threshold of garbage news,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: it becomes an issue. So like when it was just
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: that Jax was constantly cheating on everyone and lying about
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: it and giving everyone numerous venereal diseases. That was gross,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: but we could kind of go, what you get for
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: hooking up with Jack's you know, that's the the bummer,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: but it is what it is versus the main things
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that got them booted off the show. First of all,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: the Faith drama, if I'm remembering correctly, happened around the
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: time of the whole audio thing. Did you watch that season?
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: It was like six or somewhere.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've watched all of the seasons. I didn't think
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Faith was on the show for more than seasons one
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: and two. And that's why my timeline is confused.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: You're mixing Faith up with another person. So there's another
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: woman of color who was on the show in the
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: early season that's not Faith. I can't remember her name now,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: but that's not Faith.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Oh see, you're educating me. At this point. I'm gonna
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: have to like journal and reflect and yeah.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty positive i'll have to. I mean, I'm
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: always willing to go back to the source material, but
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty positive. I can't place her name right now,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: but I think there was a woman who she was
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: like a singer, and she talked to Sheena. They went
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: to like a juice bar. At some point she was
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: briefly featured, and that was not Faith, unless I'm wrong,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I think Faith periodically kind of popped up as like
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a background player. But she the way that she really
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: became a main character on the show was that she
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: hooked up with Jacks Well he was with Brittany in
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: this very scandalous way and released the audio, which, by
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: the way, is definitely illegal secretly recording the sound of
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: someone having sex with you without telling them and then
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: releasing that audio to be played. Yeah. I mean, technically
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: they didn't play the audio because then Bravo would get sued,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: but they it was clear what was happening, and they
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: explained it. In response to all of this drama. Around
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: this same time, when everyone's pretty validly mad at Faith,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Stacy and the other girls think that the cool correct
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: response is they see some kind of information about a
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: woman that stole something who is a completely different, unrelated
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: woman of color, who does not even particularly look like Faith.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: They in California like, yeah, and they call the cops
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: and tell them that Faith did it. So this is
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: problematic because especially in the wake of what we know
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: about how the police tend to treat people of color.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Doing like a fun prank of calling the cops on
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: a black woman is like, that's that's different than just
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: like being a like a guy who is cheety in
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: his relationship.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I am flabbergasted right now. I am so glad that
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: you actually so I must time out lines up in
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: my head all the time. So I automatically assumed that
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: this happened when Stossy was twenty, and I was like,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: oh God, Sassy, you were on TV.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: But no, I'm pretty sure this was in the later years.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: And again, let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: pretty sure this was in the later years. And then
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: the other thing is Stossy is constantly saying like really
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: messed up white surpriss the time commentary and like all
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: the time Philly giggles about Nazi fashion and that she
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: was so weird about the Oscar so white thing.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: And see, I don't pay attention to any of their
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: social medias. I just want to watch them almost lose
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: their jobs at sir and then leave them well.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: And I was mad about it because it is kind
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: of that thing of like I want you to be
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: a garbage person, but like, can you just control the
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: ways in which your garbage so I can continue enjoying.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Isn't that our whole? Like that is our entire like
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: ownership and entitlement. When it comes to reality TV, it's like,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you get to be trash, but you get to be
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: trash in the way that I am comfortable only because
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: now I am complacent in the fact that you are
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: a trash person who is making a lot of money,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and I enjoy vander pump roles well.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: And it's like from the sounds of it, from all
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: the rumblings, it sounds like a lot of the various
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: like Real Housewives clusters have had a lot of issues
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: of like cast members saying really racist things that don't
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: make it into the final cut because the editors are
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: like protecting them and all of this. So sort of
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: like it's not even a question of if you need
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: to be a like a quote good person or not
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: to be on the show. It's a matter of if
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the public finds out and how mad they choose to
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: get over the particular way that you were bad. I don't.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: It's it's a hard line to travel.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Well, So That's interesting too, because Okay, so we get
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: to be the body of people who are mad, right,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and sometimes we overlook what we're mad about in order
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: for vander Pump rules to stay vander Pump rules. However,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: if this happened on The Bachelor, when Rachel Lindsay came
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: out about all of the bullshit that she has to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: go through as being the bachelorette and as being the
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: first black bachelorette, then this is why I'm so fucking
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: done with Bachelor in Nation too, because they're like, learn
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: your place, be quiet, you got roses. I don't understand
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: why you're mad.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Well, And I think a lot about how growing up
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I wasn't like obsessed with becoming famous or anything like that,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: but I think everyone looks at it as like being famous,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: being wealthy, being a celebrity, being in the public eye
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: is like, you know, it's a status thing that's cool
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: that you have achieved that that you get that opportunity,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: whatever it is. And these days, like if I have
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: a post that does well on TikTok, I'm like, oh no,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: people are gonna have so many mean things to say
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: and it'll be literally like I did like a drawing
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: of like a duck, and I'm like, people are I
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: hate ducks? Now they're gonna tell me about how I
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: like betrayed the world of ducks with my bad duck rendering. Like,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: whatever you do, people are gonna come in and be
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: so nasty. And when you take that to the level
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: of being on a major network show, I can't imagine
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: the kinds of things that these people have to get
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: used to hearing. And not only does that have to
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: have a really damaging effect on their psyche, but I
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: think it also probably makes it hard for them to
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: understand where some of these lines are because, like the
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: reason that I know some of the stuff about what
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Stossy would say and her bad behavior is there was
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: like a brief window of time where I feel like
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I had listened to every podcast that existed, and I
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: needed entertainment, and I was like, I'm going to do
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: my research and I'm going to listen to some of
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Stossi's podcasts, which like, Oh my God, the Darkness, Like
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: truly it was. It was not a good podcast, but
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: it was interesting to listen to, Like what does this
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: woman talk about when she doesn't have a producer? Kind
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: of controlling where she's at and what she's doing. I
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: feel like I've lost my train of thought.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know, my whole brain is kab and because
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, way to go. You decided
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: to not be manipulated by ABC anymore. But Bravo was like,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: we still got you right in the palm of our hands, right,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: You do. Yeah.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: It's people that I so another family that I love
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to be obsessed with, that we built up all of
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: these women just to literally push them off a cliff
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: whenever it's convenient for us. Are the Kardashians. And I
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: was like, here's the thing we made, the Kardashians, like
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: we are responsible for this.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Like so one of my darkest truths is that I
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: am like one of the world's largest Kardashian apologists. I'm
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: not insane. I understand that they really mess up a
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: lot of times in a lot of ways, and that
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: they're doing a lot of things wrong. But I've been
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: like a rider do die Kardashian fan for a very
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: long time. Fan is probably the wrong word, but I
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: find him fascinating And like, there's a rule in my
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: family that my mom and I like, can't talk about
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: the Kardashians of each other because we make each other furious.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: She's like an old school bra burning feminist and she's like,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: she just got famous for getting Pete on and then
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I'll be like, or is she a woman that's harnessing
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: the fact that society only values her for her sexuality?
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And she like it? Just it turns, it goes from
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: zero to sixty within seconds, like we cannot talk about them.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: That's who I am. I'm like, okay, so we want
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: to be obsessed with the fact that Kim Kardashian, Pamela Anderson,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: and anyone else who's had a sex tape leaked gets
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: that sex tape leaked, and we want to watch it
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: and we want to talk about it, and we want
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: to blow up our MySpace accounts with it because I
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: think that's what was around when the Kim K one
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: in Randy was that his name Raj Raj or Randy
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: with Raj when that all came out, Like we're all
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: talking about it, but so we're all talking about However,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: then they start getting sponsorships because now everyone knows who
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Kim K is. Now Pam Anderson went away. I don't
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: know what happened to her after her Tommy Lee sex say.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was because it was her husband. No one
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: actually gave that many fucks about it.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: People gave many fucks.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe I was too young to remember. I don't know.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I have to watch the Hulu show about it. Is
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: when he said happen.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: I am making one of those like stands that will
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: affect nobody and is like a weird, stupid, tiny, meaningless
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: protest against that. But I still am. Because Pam was
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: very vocal when that show was coming out that she
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: had not agreed for them to use her likeness. She
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: did not want them to talk about it. She found
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: that it was like re traumatizing that they were going
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: to make a show about this really vulnerable, upsetting thing
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: that happened to her, and that she wasn't even consulting
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: on it. And she now in the aftermath because that
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: show did really well, she's doing like her own like
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: docuseriies or something where she's talking about it. But she
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't condone this. I don't want this
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: to happen. I don't want the public dredging all of
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: this old trauma up again. And they just did it anyway,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: so I didn't.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Know about it.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe I won't watch it.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I'll just see too tuned into pop culture. It's not right.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: There's no reason I should know these many things.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: So the whole thing with the Kardashians for me is
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: I am also a Kardashian apologist, and that's kind of also,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and I think that's what translated into me signing on
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: with being a vander Pump Rules apologist, because I was like, here,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: so we build these people up to be garbage, and
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: then we're mad at them when they're garbage. However, you
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: gave me clarity of it. It's like, you can't you
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: can't just keep escalating your garbage. Kim k says a
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: lot as stupid, and she says a lot of stupid
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: shit out of privilege, out of the fact that like
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: no one probably has sat down with her to be like, hey,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: we need to start like reshaping what your pr and
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: image to the world is. You're getting too damn grown
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: to be doing this. No e Hulu all of the
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: rest of them just just keep throwing like gasoline on her,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: being like burn brighter, dumpster fire, burn, and then we're mad.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I also think there's an issue of like everyone loves
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: hating them and I get him. I watch you on TV.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I understand a love hate situation, but I feel like
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: when you really look at what's happening in her life currently,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: because it came on through some rough phases, and as
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you said, even in very recent history, has said some
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: stupid things. But she's someone who has enormous wealth and
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: power and visibility, and she's going to lost school and
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: is actively trying to get people who are falsely convicted
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: off of death row, like compared to the average celebrity,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: that is using her power for a really good cause.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean that she has Carbolande. She should
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: do whatever else she wants. But I just look at,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: for example, the stuff with like her and Kanye, And
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: she said something on a recent episode of the show
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: where she was getting frustrated, and she was like, he's
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: a rapper, so what he's done. Everyone sees his art.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: So when he talks trash about me and says that
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I'm a horrible mother and spills our personal secrets the world,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: everyone goes like, oh, it's art, and they like clap
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: for him and cheer him on. But when I try
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: and tell my side of the story about anything they go.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: She's manipulating him, She's putting his mental illness on her
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: reality TV show for views. And this is my platform,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: this is what I do. But I'm never allowed to
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: tell my side of the story without becoming more of
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: a bad guy. That doesn't seem fair. And I think
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: people don't view what she does as having value or
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: having worth or art. And I'm not claiming that it's art,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: but she has built herself from a like F list
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: celebrity to one of the most famous people in the universe,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: and she still has this kind of golden shackles of
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: like people will never forgive her for the fact that
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: she is a sexual woman, Like the fact that that's
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: part of it she never is going to get away with.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: So I think we really do need to talk about,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: like what does reality TV and what it does to
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: female can contestants, contestants my god, now I'm losing my
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: ability to speak, and how it portrays interpersonal relationships. What
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: does that say about our society. I had a former friend,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: a former man that I've tolerated before, tell me and
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: it was like the darkest thing I've ever heard anyone say.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: He was way into like British tabloids and for whatever reason,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: British tabloids know everything five years before we know anything.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: So he was saying something and I was like, I
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: just don't understand why we're always nitpicking these people who
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: are just like literally in movies that we pay thirteen
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: dollars to go see it. And he's like, well, here's
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: the thing. We do own them and we build them
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: up so we can push them down whenever it's gonna
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: make us feel good. And I was like, but why
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: are we on board? Uh uh? That makes me a
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: nicky person.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is dark. And I do think that there's
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: just so much joy in outrage these days. People just
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: like our sites to be outraged. And I'm not trying
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: to go all like, oh okay, cancel cold, because I
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: think that people should be held accountable for their bad behavior.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: But I do think there is a degree of you
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: take a person who already is displaying bad decision making,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: bad behavior, you give them a massive platform, you'd hand
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: them a huge microphone and a check for a zillion dollars,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: and then you're surprised when they act worse, like of
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: course they do. I was thinking this kind of general
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: subject because I've been binging through old episodes of The
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Jersey Shore, one of my go to one of my classics,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: and I was thinking about how there's this weird, circular
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: kind of snake eating its own tail situation with reality
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: TV and social norms, where the idea is supposed to
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: be that reality TV is reflecting what society actually looks like.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: But then society is watching reality TV and we're each
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: taking our cues of what's normal and what's acceptable from
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: what they're showing us. So, like, the reason Jersey Shore
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: was making me think about it is that at the
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: time that I was watching that, to me, the way
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: that those people were interacting, what they were saying to
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: each other, what their thoughts and opinions were about things,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: were like, yeah, that's what people think. Like as like
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: teenager watching that show, I was her early twenties or
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: whatever it was, I was like, oh, yeah, so that
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: they're they're displaying what the general social beliefs are and
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: then watching it now, a lot of the things, like
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: at one point they're in the middle of an argument.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: One of them is mad at Angelina because they're always
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: mad at Angelina, and they were like she's dumb and
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: she needs to get on a treadmill. She's so fat,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: which there's a lot wrong with that, but one of
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: the things that's wrong with that is Angelina weighed like
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: ten pounds. She was so small. And I don't remember
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: ever mentally flagging as someone watching that show that that
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: was an insane thing for them to be saying to her,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: that it did not apply to her body, and that
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: even if it had, that was an awful thing for
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: them to be saying. And it didn't become like a
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: major plot at all in the episode. They're just like, yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: she is fat, ha, and then like, move on with it.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I was like the fact that, as a young viewer,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I was consuming the information that that isn't something someone
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: had written to make a point to me. This was
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: not storytelling. This was what people really think and say
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: to each other, and how it's acceptable to act is
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: that's an upsetting thing to be fed into your squishy
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: young brain, you know.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there which I do have opinions on
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: cancel culture because I'm all for like you accountability, but
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I also need to lend towards the empathy and be
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: like you are allowed to work yourself out of can culture,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: and there will be varying degrees on how that happens,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: depending on your social crime. But I think what ends
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: up happening with the Kardashians with the vander Pump rules
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: stuff or whatever is I sit there and I go,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: I'm fucked if someone reads my text messages from when
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I was eighteen, like, I am just fucked.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Yep. And part of what's especially dark about that is
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: we live in a world where, to an eternally increasing degree,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: all of us are going to forever have a permanent record.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: They're like, when people reached adulthood in our youth, they
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: could have secrets that stayed very secret that they just
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: died with, but now you know. I was talking about
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: this with a friend of mine the other day where
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: they just had a baby about a year ago, and
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: they were arguing with their parents all the time because
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: their parents always wanted to post pictures of the baby
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: on Instagram. And this couple was like, we're not doing
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: that yet. The parents live, we don't understand want to
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: show up our grandbaby. And they were like, she can't
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: consent to that being out there. And not only is
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: that an issue of whatever pictures we put out are
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: pictures that are available to the entire world for the
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: rest of her life. But also we live in a
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: world where what your face looks like you're like biodata
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: for like security and identification reasons. Is like like there's
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: just become this like crazy web of permanent traces that
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: we're leaving behind, and you can't outrun your mistakes. My
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: main issue with cancel culture, though, is not that we
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: have to learn how to forgive each other, which we do.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: It's the fact that most of the people complaining the
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: loudest about being canceled aren't fucking canceled. Chrissy Tegan has
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: millions of followers on Instagram. I used to be a
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: big Chrisy Tagan fan. I still follow her. I'm not
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: fully canceling her, but I found it really frustrating that
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: she would not stop complaining about how hard it was
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: that she'd been canceled, while continuing to have buttloads of
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: money and buttloads of access to whatever she wanted and
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: a ton of fans and people telling her how breddy
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: and smart and funny she was. Stossy just released her
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: second book. It's a New York Times bestseller, It's about
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: how hard it is that she's been canceled. It's a
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: New York Times bestseller. If people are buying your book
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: and they're writing reviews about you, and they're going to
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: your book signings and you're selling you know, Instagram ads
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: for whatever, dumb stuff for a bunch of money, in
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: what world are you canceled?
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Stossey bought herself onto the New York Best time.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I did hear that.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: I did hear that, And now I'm like, now I'm
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: going to check every time someone's like I made it
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: onto the New York Seller's List, I'm going to check
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: and be like, do you have that sword? It's like
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a dagger?
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Wait, is there a marker on it?
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: That said there's a marker? So if you look at
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the New York Bestseller's List, if there's a book title
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: and then there's this like little like medieval looking dagger
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: next to it, that means that someone bought that book
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: in bulk to distribute privately or whatever. And that's that
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: inflated the numbers.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Interesting, it's now hm, I genuinely I had heard
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: that she messed her numbers up, and I will not
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: mess them up. But that she bought her way onto
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: the list, and I genuinely and such like a dinky,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: small scale thinker that I was just picturing Stossy like
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: running around for Barnes and Noble, like twenty copies at
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: a time, as if that's how you make that big
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: of ax.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: It needs you to know that that's also how I
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: think things are. I'm like, how silly that you would
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: go to that many targets and buy out the target's
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: entire three book supply of your book because no one's
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: keeping anything.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: In stock, especially on books, right, But yeah.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: And I think so. I think reality TV really does
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: highlight for me, like just literally the lack of empathy
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: and like deep rooted conscience conscientious awareness we exhibit in
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: our relationships. I think, like one thing I ended up
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: saying on this podcast is the thing that frustrates me
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: the most about relationships with other people is that I
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: have to constantly remind myself that I have absolutely nothing
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: to do with my relationship to that person, because in
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: their head, they get to perceive anything and everything that
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I do and then assign value that I hold in
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: their life, and I can kind of change my behavior
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: to effect or manipulate that, but at the end of
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: the day, it really and believe me, I've read former
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: text messages from men recently that I slept with and
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I was like, fuck, it was written all over the work,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: all over the walls that you didn't give a shit
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: about me. And I'm still like, if I text them
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: one more time, blah blah blah blah blah, if I
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: tell him this about myself or my bras or my
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: boobs or whatever. Like I had to ask my friend.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I was like, why am I constantly and I'm just
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: gonna use his monaker since this is an ever present
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: person on the podcast, I'm like, why am I always
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: telling friendly or friend zoned when I'm going bra shopping
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: or what bra I'm wearing? Why? Why is that just
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: something I'm giving him a daily update on.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just that idea of like, I understand the impulse.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: I understand the impulse to be like, I just want
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: to make sure you're thinking about me. I'm thinking about
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: you all the time. I want to make sure you're
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: thinking about me. I want to make sure those thoughts
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: are connected to boobs. I want to plant that seat.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: But the reality of the matter is that like if
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I have learned anything over my many horrible dating experiences.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: They're good now.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna good relationship now. But like, boy, the times
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: have been dark before. It's that if a guy likes you,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: he's gonna make that really clear. I spent so much
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: of my life trying to analyze like the secret meanings
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: of text messages and trying to be like, oh, you know,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I'm texting too much or too little? Does he want
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: to hang out? Blah blah blah, And like one of
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: the reasons I am in a happy relationship right now
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: is when I started dating my current boo, like it
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I had. I was at the time seeing two other
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: guys because I'm you know, yeah, I'm like that I
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: saying to other guys, and both of them it was
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: like that where it was like, you know, I'd see
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: them like every couple of weeks and it would be like, oh,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm really busy, but if you want to
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: come over, that's fine, and like that's the invite or whatever. Like,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: and I met my boyfriend and he was literally like,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: can we hang out again tomorrow? I was like, I
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: mean sure, I mean do you I mean, yeah, we
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: can hang out tomorrow. And he's like, let's take out
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: as much as possible all the time, and like they're
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: you have to be careful too with like love bombing,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: and there are bad versions of that, but the truth
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: matter is if someone's excited about you and they like you,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: they're gonna make that clear because they're also gonna want
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: you to be thinking about them, and they're also gonna
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: want to know what you're doing. And like it's there's
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: the decoding is most of the time pretty unnecessary.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: And then so that reminds me of my favorite trope,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I'm married at first sight and love is blind, and
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: it's the instant, Oh I fucked up and now I'm
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: in a committed relationationship with you. Moment so scared, so scared.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I love that on every episode of at Married or
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: every season of at Married. On first sight, those experts know,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: this man really thinks he's into this, but he's not,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: and we're gonna pair him up with probably the nicest lady,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: like it is usually someone who does not deserve this.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: And they get married. Maybe they have sex at night,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: maybe they make out a little bit, maybe they literally
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: just change into pajamas and go to bed, and they
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: wake up that next day and you can read it
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: from his head to his toes. I was like, this
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: fucker didn't really think that lifetime was gonna make them
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: get married.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: You know something that's interesting to retrace to our first
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: point of the Bachelor Bachelorette and that podcast that I
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: listened to. One of the things I learned that podcast,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: because they analyze all the like statistics and analytics or whatever,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: that I think about sometimes is if it's a bachelorette,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: if the woman is doing the choosing, the person she
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: gives the first impression Rose to the person who on
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: the first night she sees and she's like, there's a
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: spark there, there's something there. The likelihood that that person
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: makes it really far in the competition or even potentially
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: wins is actually really significant. There's a very high likelihood
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: that they'll need at least make it to like the.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Top four or whatever.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: For the guy, it makes almost no difference who he
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: picks in the first impression rows is almost always just
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: who he thinks is physically attractive, and then it's kind
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: of like, I guess now I'll get to know you guys.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: There's the statistically it really whoever he picks a night
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: one reflects almost nothing about who's going to make it
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: to the end.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: So when I'm the bachelorette, the thing that I'm the
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: most concerned about is a who will be my safety net?
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Now because Chris Harrison is canceled and gone.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: We've got a new guy, something Palmer.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: But Jesse Palmer. He has a very square head. He
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: in the first Bachelor that work. They are the same person. Yeah,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: who do you? How do you even know who you're dating?
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: They just pushed them both out of the same mold.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: They just made two. Yeah.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: So early on in the Bachelor and Bachelor Atte franchise,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: you used to get to watch them ponder over who
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: they were going to give the rose to, and there
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: was a candle shrine with everyone's head shot and name
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: on a candle, and you got in. Like I, as
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: a viewer of the Bachelor Bacherette franchise, am a lot
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: like The Bachelor. Whereas I don't know anyone's name until
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: around episode six.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: In my real life, I can't keep track of people's names.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: I like, when I first meet people, for the first
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: dozen times I see them, I will like avoid using
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: their name because I'm so sure that if I remember
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: it at all, that I'm remembering it wrong, right. I
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: don't know how they he And now it's like it
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: used to be that they would have like I think,
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: maybe twenty contestants, and now it's like thirty forty. Like
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: the number of people that they haul into that mansion
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: is insane.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Well, and now I've learned that the reason why they
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: twirled the rose while they're like pretending to ponder who's
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: getting the next one is because the names are written
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: on the rose.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: They write it like in the pedals somewhere.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: M hm.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: They had the names and the roses. Interesting because one
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: time the Bachelor gave the rose to the wrong woman.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: He said a name, and a lady he did not
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: want to have a connection with stepped up, and then
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: he had to immediately like panic, look at Chris and
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: wave a producer over, and they had a huddle right
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: in front of all of these insecure women who were
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: just waiting to be picked. And then he had to
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: give out an extra rose to the woman. He actually
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: meant to give that rose too.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: I just I know that if I was a congestant
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: on The Bachelor, I would be that person that cries
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: in every episode, Like even if I had no romantic
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: interest in the Bachelor and I got there and was like, oh,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: there's no vibe there, so I'll just like enjoy my
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: fifteen minutes of fame and hope to get some like
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Instagram ads out of this. I would cry probably multiple
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: times an episode. I just the idea of standing on
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: those weird tiny bleachers they have and watching some square
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: headed white man tell me whether or not I was
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: worthy of his affection. I like, I know, like I'm
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: having hard valpitations. I can't it's so weird and uncomfortable.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Well, in the backup thing is is now, the Bachelor,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Bachelrette franchise, Love is Blind, the ultimatum, all of them
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: reinforce the tragedy of online dating that I keep falling into,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: which is you can always shop around. Yeah, did I
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: irritate you about the type of breed of dog? I like,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: fucking go swipe and find someone new who's going to
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: be quieter, more palpatable, likes the same video game format
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: that you like any and everything. You just have it
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: right there at your fingertips.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of dating shows like fundamentally
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: tie back to the idea that what you're looking for
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: in a partner is someone who's the same as you.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Like even just there, you're saying, you know, do I
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: not like same video games? Do I not like saying dogs?
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of people when they're looking for a partner,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: they're looking for someone that's like as close to a
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: mirror replica of them as possible. And I find that
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: baffling because something I know is that I'm annoying. I
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: am a hard person to date. Don't be wrong, I'm great,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: hooray whatever, don't me, but I don't want to date me.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: I want to date someone who balances me out, someone who,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: like when I'm acting like a neurotic weirdo, is going
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: to stay calm, someone who, you know, we compliment each other,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: we fill in some of those blanks. And yet these
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of these shows circle around that, Like you know,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: a night one of the Bachelor, of the Bachelorette, it's
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: all like, oh my gosh, that's exactly what my childhood was, Like,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: that's what I love to do in my free time.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: Same thing. I'm like the ultimatum on that one couple
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: that like clicked right away on Ultimatum, they kept being like,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: it's so weird. Literally every single thing is the same
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: about us, and I was like, okay, so dominate them
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: because that sounds hard.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, like the ultimatum had such a like insane
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: format to begin with, because it was like, literally, you
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: showed up with your partner, and then Nicko Lachet was like,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: break up with your partner, and you did. And then
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Thedessa Lache was like, go shop for a new partner,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: and you did within minutes of breaking up with your partner.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: And with them in the same room like dog inya
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: in the corner of the room. The other thing that's
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: wild about that is it's suggesting that if you can't
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: find love with one of these other like five people,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: that then you must be with the right person. It's
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: like there's a whole world of people, our whole world.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: My assumption when they set up the premise to the
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: show is that they were going to take time to
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: like date in general, because that's how that would normally work,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: and for instead to be that you have to pull
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: from this very small pool of people who also are
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: all very freshly out of very serious breakups, many of
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: them kind of against their will, and it's like, well,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: if you can't make it work with them, then it
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: must be that you're with sis.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Then I don't know. Also, I think the way that
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: women in contestants on these reality TV shows centered around
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: love buy in on a completely different level than the
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: men who are on this these reality TV shows centered
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: around love. I see it all the time. I'm married
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: at first Sight, That moment that that man has decided
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: that marrying a stranger is uh a mistake, he feels
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: at no point the need to fake it, the need
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: to carry out the show, the need to do any
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: of the things that he has quote unquote agreed by
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: contract to do, and he just becomes absent, and you're like,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: where's that guy? Where's that guy that married her? But
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: the women will like literally because I just watched it
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: on a season of Married at First Sight where she
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: marries this guy before they're even on the honeymoon. He's
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: like telling her, yeah, we had sex, but I didn't
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: like it. I was trying to do it to see
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: if I could get attracted to you or whatever. They
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: get on the honeymoon and he's like, turns out my
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: exes having my baby. Ah. She's like, I'm your wife, though,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: and I'm folding onto this idea that I signed up
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: to do something and I will see this through. And
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm that person. I will see it through
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: because I signed up to do it.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I I think that part of the reason why
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: there's that gender split and how seriously they buy into
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: things honestly is that I think that coming out of
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: a reality show, the response that a lot of women get,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: like on social media, in you know, interviews and what like,
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: just their experience leaving a newfound fame, especially for their
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: specific personal identity, not for playing a character. For women,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of scrutiny, it's a lot
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: of criticism, it's a lot of shaming, it's a lot
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: of judging that they're then going to have to face.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: For a lot of guys, I think it's access to vagina.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of guys, as soon as you're
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: on TV for like ten seconds, you can now get
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: laid easier.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: And so I think when they're on a show where
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: the premise is that they're getting set up in a relationship,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: whether they are interested in that person or not, whether
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: it's going well or not, I think in the back
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: of their head. They know on the other side of this,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have more access to more potential partners
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: than I ever have before if they're even remotely good looking.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: And like, not to victim blame ladies here, because like,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: hooray for everyone exploring their sexuality in whatever way speaks
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: to them and you know, people whatever, But can we
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: stop sliding into the dms of people who prove themselves
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: to be monsters on TV?
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Can we stop sleeping with jaxx Taylor? Can we stop
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: sleeping with Tristan Thompson? Can we stop? Can we stop?
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Because they're showing you that they're awful, that they are
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: They are not going to be careful with you physically
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: or emotionally or in any way. And if you're just
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: wanting to like check it off your bucket list, I
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: get that, But there's there are a lot there are
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of dicks out there.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Why are you losing for me? You know that Bennett
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: from Tatia's season of The Bachelorette slid into my DMS
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: and I allowed him to talk to me.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, there's a difference between him sliding
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: into your DMS as opposed to vice versa. But it's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: not even like I don't understand the impulse. Like if
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: I was, like, there's no I was gonna say if
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: I was in a club tomorrow, but like that literally
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: is not a reality we live in. But like if
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: for some reason I became a completely different person and
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: every circumstance in the world changed, I was at the
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: club tomorrow and I ran into truly a nightmare person.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: If the situation was there, I would probably be like,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna shoot my shot because there's just like a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: crazy like impulse in your brain to be like, well
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: why not, But like there's so many reasons why not.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: There's so many rest to go up to Ronnie and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: ask him if he wrote that note, Ronnie, did you
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: write that note?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Telling on yourself? Ronnie didn't write the note, and Jaywow,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I think Ronnie wrote it. Rewatch the episode they tell
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: you it's snooky and Jaywow, Well.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's all a lie. Mtvalize all the time.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: So like that happened on Katie Thurston season of The
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Bachelorette where she was convinced that she was going to
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: propose and marry. I think his name was Luke.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, wait, Zach Key Thurston's Oh yeah, that was Keith.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: Some reason, I was mixing he up with Hannah Brown
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: because she's similarly had name.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: So Katie Thurston is the bachelorette. She knows by the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: end of it who she's going to pick. That guy
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: just gets sick of being on the show, which again,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: whatever makes you want to bow out bow ow, I
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: don't care. But he keeps trying to tell her to
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: go with him, and I listen to her on Good
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: for You Whitney Cummings podcast where she's like, no one
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: understands what it's like for this to actually feel like
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: it's your responsibility, like it's your job.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: We're on the vert.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: We haven't even done hometowns yet. People are expecting fantasy
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: suites and that to be like a fucking ruckus and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: we're already too far into the season where it's not
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: like they're going to bring in someone else. Because Claire
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: bowed out, like she's like, I felt like I had
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: to see this through and there was no way to
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: convince him to do it, so he had to go.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: And then I got Blake as a constellation conte consolation. Yeah,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I got Blake. My plan I think Blake was like
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: her literal plan D. And then there was like some
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: other guy who made it to the finale and I
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't even know your name, sir. It's like,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: I don't even know why you're here.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Did that her and her season was super controversial and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: people had like very mixed feeling because a lot of
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: people felt sympathetic for him, where they were like, you
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: know that we all know how hard it would be
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: to be a contestant on that show, and he's got
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: serious feelings for her, and like, of course he wants
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: to like run away with her. But I found it
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: really crappy because we all understand the fundamental premise of
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: the show, and he kind of turned it on her
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: as if if she did chose to leave with him,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: that she was, you know, betraying him, that she was
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: you know, cheating on him, that she cared about these
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: other men more, that she wasn't there for the right
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: reasons basically, And it was.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Some luke P energy from Hannah Brown's season, where like
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: anytime Hannah had fun with someone else, luke P was
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: like I thought we were dating and it's like, no, sir,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: you're on the bachelorette.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, no one made you come on this show,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: and if you want to just be in a monogamous relationship,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: go anywhere else. This is the show that is built
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: on that not being how the process works.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: What bothered me about that was he wasn't even open
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: to having the conversation about why she felt like she
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: had to stay, because I think she wasn't a place
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: where she would have wheeled and dealed with him, like
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: we need to finish this out. Let's talk about what's
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: going to make it comfortable for us to finish it
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: out or whatever. But he just got so mad that
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't immediately go, you're right, I will run away
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: with you. And I think it's a privilege point with men.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Men never have to feel like they really have to
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: do the thing. They always have an escape hatch to
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: not doing what they don't want to do, whereas women
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: are like, I can't let ABC down. And what would
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Chris say, I don't know, Like I like, I'm the
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: person running the show, Like I uh, And you just
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: like have all these feelings of the responsibility that you
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: have to all these other people, and men are like,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: I'm responsible to my dick and my dick alone, and
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: my dick be tired of this.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Well, personally, I think that it was a facade. I
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: think that what happened is that he did not want
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: to marry her. I think he got that far into it.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, because no one actually knows when
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: they show up. They literally haven't met this person when
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: they admit to going on this journey with them. So like,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: I think he showed up and maybe the chemistry wasn't
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: quite right. Maybe maybe he had gone on just for
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: like the promotional opportunities and already like someone else somewhere else,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Whatever the reason, I think he wasn't
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: that into it, and he got that far along and
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: could see that she was going to pick him and
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: didn't want to have to turn her down and become
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: the bad guy. And I think he figured out if
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: I set it up this way, I get to be
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: the victim. I'm I'm making it so that she has
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: to dump me instead of me having to dump her,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: which is a classic move. Lots of people do the
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: trick you into dumping.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Me into dumping people, and then they get real surprised
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: when I just endure it.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Well, Katie could not endure it for contractual reason.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: For contractual reasons. All right, we are coming up on
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: the hour.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: What I need to talk for six more hours?
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, I really to.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Listen to me talk for six hours.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: I completely abandoned my outline for this because which has
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: happened the last two episodes that I have recorded where
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: I was like, this person can just chat and I
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: kind of look at it and pick out clear like
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: common words within the thread, and I was like, we
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: should talk about how they treat female contestants. But what
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: do you think is the biggest thing we've learned about
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: our society or about ourselves through the reality TV shows
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: that we refuse to give up on.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: About us loving the shows or.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: Anything watching them, having them be a part of our society.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: I just think that it's a dark answer, but not
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: surprisingly because it's a dark topic. But I think that
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: the biggest thing I just keep on coming back to
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: is that people, most people are just like fundamentally very selfish.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: That if you look at a lot of these shows
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: that you're just watching people, you know, watch The Bachelor
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: and look at people play with one another's emotions in
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: order to get more screen time while at the same time,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: producers are manipulating those people and their potential real life marriages.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: They are messing with these big, scary issues because they
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: want to you know, do well at their job as
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: a producer, and the show is cranking it out to
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: the American public despite knowing the impact that it has
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: on people's you know, view of their own bodies or
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: understanding of their own relationships, and people continue to watch
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: the shows because it feels good, even though we know
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: it's oftentimes supporting not so great things. I don't think
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not so man who thinks that reality TV is
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: inherently evil. I think that it's fun. I love it,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: I enjoy it. There are there is silver lining, but
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: I think that it does hold up a pretty bleak
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: mirror sometimes well.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: So, I think what I've learned from reality TV and
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: really like thinking about it while I'm consuming it, because
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: we've had plenty of time to think about it, is
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: that we as a society have made love a business
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: and a commodity that we know that we can make
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: money off of. So, if you think about wedding culture,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of money to be had and exchanged
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: when planning a wedding. If you think about The Bachelor
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: Bachelor that franchise. The reason I stopped watching it is
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: because it's really hard to watch privileged people get to
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: like eat fake food when so many people are unemployed
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: and struggling. It wasn't as hard on the Ultimatum because
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: they had cheaper production value. But and I think that
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: is very easy to take something that is supposed to
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: be so pure, like loving someone and being like this
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: is going to be a good business deal for me.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: And I think each one of us knows that we
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: can have love and affection for sale and make that
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: benefit just us.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: I will say that's a very interesting point, and I
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: think that you're right. I will say I don't think
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: that's new, especially when it comes to specifically in marriage.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: Marriage has always been a financial transaction. We can trace
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: back to dowries and the entire concept of a woman
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: being property that's bartering deals between men. So I think
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: that that it's not new the idea that marriage can
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: can be a financial right and capitalistic principle. But it
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: is interesting because to get the audience emotionally invested to
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: your point, they can't just make it be about the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: literal marriage. It's not like, whether you like him or not,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: you must marry him if he wins. It's about they
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: want the emotional component. They want people crying or being
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: in love or being giddy or whatever it is, and
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: that gets a lot darker.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: Well, and then what I've learned about myself and what
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: my growth opportunity needs to be is that I love
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: to be swept up in a spectacle, and I always have.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: But then you do have opinions and thoughts and whatever
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: that form around the spectacle that you're watching, and sometimes
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: I do have to then gather up outside sources. For example,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: I'm watching The Girl from Plainville on Hulu. This is
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: what I knew about that case. A boy died and
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: a girl texted him right before he died. I created
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: this whole narrative that everyone got, like real out of
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: hand because they thought that she should have been able
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: to stop him. And I was like, that's a lot
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: to put on a fifteen year old girl or whatever.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: Why is she going to jail? And then I'm watching
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: the dramatized version of it on Hulu and I'm like, Oh,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: that's why, because she was orchestraing a lot of things.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: And I went in fully prepared to be pissed at
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: everyone but her, And then I was like, oh, okay, yeah,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: that case.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: Is a whirlwind because it's well, it's an example of
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: everyone involved was making bad choices. Yeah, Like I can
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: I understand the people who are sympathetic to her because
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: not to talk ill of someone who is no longer here,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: but he was not always the best person in that
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: dynamic for her mental health, and she clearly was not
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: the best person that dynamic for his mental health. It's like,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: not to enter into this because there's even if we
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: had six hours, there is not time. But the depth
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: heard trial that everyone's losing their mind about. I've heard
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: so much about how this is proving that he's a
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: good guy and she's the bad guy, and I'm like, hey,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: what this pro is proving is that these are two
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: people who are fundamentally terrible for each other. Whether or
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: not they're terrible people, they should not have ever been
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: allowed within one hundred feet of each other. They should
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: not currently be in the same room as each other.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: There are some people that they are nothing but poison
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: to one another. And it doesn't mean that there's a
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: good side and a bad side. It means this whole
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: situation is yuck, right, and that's why we put them
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: together and put a camera on it and make it
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: a reality TV show.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think that's a huge thing too, is
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: now we've felt the need to turn everything into a
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: reality TV show.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: It's talking about people being toxic for each other. Is
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: making me realize that we have to do a follow
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: up at some point when people will when people will
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: tolerate me continuing to babble about this, or maybe just
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: off off. Mike, You and I need to talk because
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: we've gotten all this play into a conversation about toxic
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: relationships and reality TV and not once since we said
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: the words it's Scott dissick, and we have got to
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: talk about Scott desic someday, someday. Interesting.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: It's because so here's the thing. I barely watched the Kardashians.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: It was only something that I watched in college because
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: E was one of the good channels that we had
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: on shitty college cable, so and I was too busy
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: watching Charmed on syndicated TVs.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Also excellent viewing. Well, I won't do a deep dive,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: but I will say he's one of the most interesting
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: figures in reality TV because he is simultaneously incredibly sympathetic
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: and incredibly unsympathetic. He is the he's the kind of
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: the viewer's voice on that show where there'll be scenes
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: where these gorgeous women faces beat with the most fancy makeup,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: the nails, the outfits, eating million dollar salads and having
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: the craziest rich person conversations, and he'll walk in the
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: room and just be like, you guys are fucking weird.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: Like you'll say something that's like exactly what you're thinking,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: and it's funny and it's accurate, and you're like, he's
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: the everyman. And then ten seconds later he's like stuffing
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: dollar bills in like a waiter's mouth and like cheating
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: on Courtney and you're like, oh, I don't like you.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: It's nick Yell on the Bachelor franchise. I never realized
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: when we turned the tide on nick Yell actually being
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: a villain, when I'm like, I thought we didn't like
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: this guy, and now he gets to come to everything.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: And it's for Scott dissic kind of reasons, which is
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: that he's smart and he's articulate, and he's funny and
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: he is kind of a nasty guy. Yeah from again,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know him personally, who knows. But at the
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: same time, in the context of such a fabricated world
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: of people of cognitive dissonance, people saying one thing and
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: meaning another and having all these agendas, having someone who
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: just walks in the room is like, that's bullshit, that's bullshit.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: Funny joke is incredibly endearing.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: What are you hoping for the collective energy going forward
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: while they're consuming reality TV?
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I guess that I'm hoping that you
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: are able to take the fun parts of reality TV
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: drama and incorporate them into your existence, like the the
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: ridiculous fashion or the like close friendship bonds or the
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: wild adventures, like, take those and incorporate them into your
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: world and then leave all of the bad stuff on
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: the door, like that can stay over there. No thank you,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: no thank you.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: I hope for myself, since I am now a person
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: who sometimes puts things out into the media, that while
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: I am watching these reality TV shows, I'm actually paying
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: attention so that when I am on a hot mic
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: and you tell me that's not how that went at all, nabling,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you mean that person wasn't nineteen
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: when they made a mistake. Because honestly, and this has
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: always been something about my brain, and it's something that
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: I know, and it's something that I always forget to
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: combat because of whatever is undiagnosed in my brain. My
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: perfectionism likes to manifest itself, where if I don't know
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: the full story, I fill in the gaps that I
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: no I don't know with things that I assume to
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: be true or can infer or can make a connection.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: So it makes a lot of sense in my head.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: It's probably a coping mechanism from all the gas lighting
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: that's happened to me.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I also think that there's probably part of it
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: that's like, you know, you watch all these hours of
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: these people's somewhat real lives, and they do the same
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: way that you if you obsessively listen to a podcast,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: they start feeling like they're your friends and that you
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: know them and that you're part of the conversation. I
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: feel like I know the cast of vander Pump Rules.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: I know that I don't, but I feel like I do.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: And the same way that you might have some friends
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: who are like love this person to death. They're adorable,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: they're fun, they're funny. But one thing I know about
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: them is that they make not the best decisions or
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: they sometimes they're problematic in this that or whatever way.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: I feel like the vander Pump people, It's like, these
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: are my highly problematic friends, but I love anyway. So
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: in something that comes up, it's natural to want to
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: have the impulse of being like, leave my friends alone.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: They probably didn't mean it, but like, at the end
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: of the day, whether you meant it or not, if
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: you're an adult person and you're making choices that could
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: potentially endanger another adult person based off of thinking it
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: would be like a funny response to a cheating scandal,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: it's just messy and not the kind of cute, cute,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: funny bad. It's the yucky bad.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: So I would like to be more responsible in not
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: just deciding that I know everything about this one slice
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: of a person's life that Bravo presented me or ABC
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: or because I also turned my back on Katie Thurston
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: and then she was on a couple of podcasts that
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: I follow it, and I was like, fuck, I'm the problem, Huh,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: why'd you turn your back on Katie? It was the
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: after Rose when she became unhinged, because he was still
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: a sympathetic person until they were out of existence again
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: on TV, and then.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: I turned him. I turned on him right away.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: But I remember texting my friend who watches The Bachelor,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: and I remember texting him like, I'm just so confused,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: and I don't know how I feel yet. So I'm
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: just wildly confused. And sometimes I can't RECOGNI sometimes I'm
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: really good at recognizing when someone else is getting gas
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: lit and manipulated right in front of me, because I'm like, oh,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: I remember how that felt. And then sometimes, because being
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: manipulated is something that's happened so often in my life,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: I completely miss it when someone else is going through it.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. I just think we have to remember
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: with all of it that at the end of the day,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: there a lot of them are fundamentally flawed, but they're
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: all people. We are all just people, and we are messy,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: little train wrecks who are gonna mess up, and we
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: deserve a right to dig our way back out of
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: that hole, but only if we legitimately make the changes necessary, yes,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: and not just write a book about how it was sad.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: I hope that the day that I am canceled, I
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: can then come onto my platform and be like I
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: realized that I did that when I was nineteen because
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: I was a moron. But here are the things that
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: I've tried to do to prove to you all that
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not a moron. Oh but those will be canceled
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: for what you do at nineteen.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: You'll be canceled for what I make you say on
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: an episode where we're having a conversation.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: Right, I feel like this is what's going to get
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: me canceled because I completely misread the like.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: She loves Stacy, she is a racist monster.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: And then we were like, no, I just misread it.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: So this this literally just happened on another podcast that
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: I listened to on Elli's for Losers, which is a
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: great podcast. Another plug, they were talking specifically about Stossy's
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: wedding and they were kind of saying this thing where
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: they were like, ah, we kind of miss her. She
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: wasn't that bad. And their next episode they were like,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: people wrote in about just how bad she is and uh,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: we didn't. We didn't know she's very bad. Thank you.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: As always, tolerators, please realize that podcasting is both exciting
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: and humbling. Annie, You've plugged a bunch of podcasts, plug
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: where people can find you.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: You can find me listening to all those podcasts and
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: this one, but you can find if you like art.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: This had nothing to do with art, but if you
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: like art, that's most of what I do. I'm Annie
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: makes art on TikTok and YouTube, and I'm ak sig,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: which is a k s I e g. On Instagram.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Yep, and Annie, I love having you here and in
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: my life and always and tolerators. There was a commercial
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of this for the Patreon and don't
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: forget you can follow us, share episodes, post about episodes,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: and do all of this free shit that might make
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: it to where I'm making enough money that canceling me
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: is worth it.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: We gonna get you those cancel bucks.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: Where are my canceled dollars? And uh, thank you Annie
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: for humbling me and for making me aware of something
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: before I was bigger. And then I can be like, oh,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: I don't condone that, I just condone forgiveness.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: I can don't forgiveness too.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: I condone forgiveness and I just get so tired.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's fair boom. We're all tired, So.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Remember, tolerators, you have to smile through anything you're tolerating,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: including ABC and Bravo manipulating you into trying to form
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: an idea or definition of love, compassion, empathy, or jealousy,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: fiery burning rage. You get to make your own thoughts
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: about all of those feelings, and smiles are reserved for joy.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: They're only for joy.