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Traction Comes Before Funding (Elisabeth Bykoff and Jamie Schneiderman) · Unstuck Pod

• Jamie Schneiderman: Hi everyone, welcome to the Unstuck Pod. really excited today to have Elizabeth Baikoff here. and she's got this really exciting product actually for for startups. And so I want to I want to let her talk about her journey, how she got here, and what she's doing today. So Elizabeth, welcome. Elisabeth Bykoff: Hey, thanks for having me, Jamie. Jamie Schneiderman: So you wanna tell us how did you get here? What what it where where'd you come from, what'd you do? Elisabeth Bykoff: My you want the long version or the short version? Jamie Schneiderman: well you know, let's follow is there a medium version? Well let's start there. Elisabeth Bykoff: No, no, I'm kidding. Yeah. so despite the lack of accent, just a hint here and there, you know, French, born and raised, don't hold that against me, right? Been here, it's gonna be 22 years in September, so that should age me right there. background, you know, aerospace engineering turned into business, never looked back. you know, got my MBA right after my master in engineering and then started my career at PWC for 10 years, had a chance to sell the first Salesforce.com project for the US firm. So that started my entrepreneurial journey, I call it, right? Big big brand, big money. but build a practice going after Accenture and Deloitte at the time, you know, pretending we knew what we were doing. and so that was really fun for for about eight years, took the practice to 200 million globally. And then it was time to sign my life for way to be a partner, and I quit. So everybody was very, very surprised. and I I really wanted to. I enjoyed the building part, I realized after eight years. didn't want to do the implementation anymore. and so went into well the pre-IPO world that was in the Bay Area. And so for the last 10 years, that's what I've been doing really. For so first as a go-to-market executive operator with late stage all the way to pre-product, pre revenue companies, as well as making my first angel checks. Some worked, some or some still T V D, some failed, you know. and then also coaching startups. So a bit like you, you know, just spending a lot of time you know, really with founders. was part of the Morgan Stanley Inclusive Ventures Lab for two years. So I really enjoy working founders. And at the end of 22, when ChatGPT was out, I thought if I have to, you know, answer the same questions over and over again, I'm shooting myself in the head, lowly. Like I thought the tech was finally here to to take all that wealth of knowledge and guide founders so they could focus on building, selling, and then all the ops. Crap, I call it, should be at least guide them. And then, as you know, Jamie, it was not just LLM twenty-four. We got eight agenc workflows and agents and then MCP and then open claw and grockbot now. So, you know, I don't know where we're we're ending. I mean, OpenAI yesterday was like, We're pausing all work on Frontier. So, you know, it's been interesting to then start this journey with Boxy on delay twenty-four and start building, you know, and incorporating all that innovation and really getting to boxy what it's supposed to be now, which is this AI chief operating officer for startup founders, and really helping on the on the dollar journey and our first wedge, which we were talking about before starting this, which is really fundraising and investor relations. So the goal is to take the guesswork out of that, help as many founders as we can really structure their race, found find the investors, the right investors, and really accelerate that race, and change the game on fundraising. It's just a horrible step of the process when you wanna do that. So yeah. So we're starting there and then obviously we really want to be kind of your upside kick at the end of the day, right? That's with you as you scale. So yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: Okay, so all right. So let me let me as I love the background, right? The your your and you did that, that was perfect amount of time. Well done. That was great. Elisabeth Bykoff: All right. Jamie Schneiderman: no, that was good. but but I have many follow-up questions. So so so first let's let me let's talk a little bit. So from a boxy perspective, you talk about the pain and suffering of fundraising. So There's so many things that pain are painful that suck about it. and so maybe you can give give me or give everybody who's listening a little bit more of a sense of what specifically are those pain points that you're actually moving and the needle on. Like how how are you helping people from a fundraising perspective make that world Elisabeth Bykoff: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: better, easier? Elisabeth Bykoff: Yeah, you know, I mean the three things that I was looking at after working with a lot of founders on fundraising and fundraising myself, right? I mean, because that's what I'm also now in the game of of doing, was really three things. One was taking the guesswork, especially for first time founders. You know, I don't know where to start. What does it mean to fundraise? What is the structure, documents, process to do that, right? So really taking that out. And so You know, in Boxy, the value is that we've pre-built everything at least. So you literally don't have to think about how do I build my de data room, what needs to be in there. Everything is really done and guided for you. So you're kind of from day one running, I I don't want to call it a professional fundraising process, but that's pretty much what we're trying to do, give you a a professional-looking fundraising process. The second was a lot of founders sometimes don't have the relationships that some of us have built through different networks or anything like that. And so they're like, who should I be contacting? Right. And you can tell them to go to events and start networking. That's great. But you know, what is a list? And I know there's a bunch of tools out there like telling you, here is the list, you know, pay for it, don't pay for it. Great. but then how do you manage that? There's still all the all the things. It's great to get the names, but you still get to do outreach and follow ups and all of that. So we've we've really collapsed that instead of you having to go find a list somewhere else. We have 150,000 investor contacts in the You know, in the in the system that really helps you recommends, you know, based on your thesis and what you you put in the system, the more you put in Boxsy, the more we can recommend better investors. So we wanted to constantly have your pipeline filled in, you know, with something, right? That you're never Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: completely drying up. and then last but not least, you know, one of the things that we really heard was around and it's a productivity play, which is if you talk to founders during fundraising, I think I've I've heard From some of our founders, like 10 hours just managing my list and following up and you know, answering investor asks. And and I do have to do my updates once a month at least and all that. And so we wanted to collapse that and get it to literally you're spending 30 minutes to maximum an hour on the tedious parts of fundraising. So you can focus on your meetings. I can't do the meetings for you, you still have to go pitch. but all the rest of research, you know. Back to who am I an investor? I should talk to, the research behind it, you know, are there a good fit, all that? We really wanted to take that away. And obviously leverage AI to do that. So it becomes a less painful process or less unpleasant, you know. Like how I I I can't say I want to make it a pleasant process. I don't know if it will ever be a pleasant process, but how how far can we go to be, you know, to move the needle from, you know, really suffering through it to, okay, it's at least unpleasant, but I'm not suffering through it, if that makes sense. Jamie Schneiderman: so no no and I I yes, I don't think anyone will go, that was the most fun ever. The maybe maybe the guys who have already k are killing it and have like people throwing money at them, it'll feel that way. But eventually. is it wrong for me, like I listening to what you're saying and I'm not trying to like put you no no pun intended in a box around this, but I'm Elisabeth Bykoff: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: but I but I like what you just described Calling that an investor or a fundraising CRM, is that wrong? Is that fair? Is that like a Elisabeth Bykoff: No, no, I think it's pretty fair, you know. and and I would even push it, you know, we've built things that is not just fundraising, you know, pre-raise, right? There's also as you know, you lock the the check and then there's like, crap, I still have to keep them in, you know, appraise of what's Jamie Schneiderman: Right. Elisabeth Bykoff: going on. I still need to answer their questions when they're randomly asking questions at two AM on text or on wherever. You know what I mean? and then as you grow and you start having board members, you need to run board meetings, right? That's just so What we did is we we didn't want to stop at just the the fundraise and then our founders are left to I wouldn't say to their own device device again. so we've also built those pieces of the puzzle pre post raise to be able for you to continue managing your investor relations properly and in a professional manner, meaning structured manner, for you to do that. And that was always the goal, Jamie. We didn't want to churn and just be a fundraising platform, right? you pay me just for the list, or you pay me just for X, right? We really wanted to collapse that and use, you know, AI to really help you from pre raise to post race and beyond as you deploy capital, generate capital, all that stuff in the future. So Jamie Schneiderman: So Elisabeth Bykoff: yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: managing no, but so so investor CRM as the and and by the way, I'm I'm throwing CRM on the back end. I I'm I I I'm just I'm just I'm trying to provide it's context around what it is, but I there's a lot that you have. So so let me so let me leap forward. So I get all that. That makes total sense. There's a lot to it, a ton obviously in the painful part of the pre. And and by the way, anybody who hasn't raised money or is in the middle would just want their money and they don't care. They don't realize about the pain that and the challenges after that are still gonna be work that they're gonna have to do, but they'll have to get there. And then let's talk a little bit. You talked about your the COO, right? So, you know, my my CO, my, my chief operating officer, again in a box, right? What does that look like? How different is that? Where does that fit in? I know there's some of the stuff around managing investors. But but what else? What else are your capabilities then? Elisabeth Bykoff: Yep. Yep. So, you know, since we're very focused on the what I call the dollar journey, you know, some of the things that we're bringing now is revenue generation, right? So we call it our revenue hub. we're very nascent right now, but it's been asked by some of our customers. but since we are doing a fundraising pipeline, and interestingly, one of our customers one day ended up getting a follow-up for a prospect, not an investor. That guy slipped through the crack in his fundraising pipeline because our filter was looking at vent v you know, ventures.com or you know any VC, you know, dot VC, and we picked up something dot capital. And so our agent thought, our investor relations agent was like, This is a follow-up. You haven't talked to them in two weeks. Well, Web3 Company, it was actually a it was actually your prospect. And that was his Eureka moment. He was like, my God, thank you so much. We got a random message on probe, like, thank you so much. I had totally forgotten. I had to follow up with them. Please give me my revenue pipeline now. So we we end up now building, I wouldn't want to call it a revenue, you know, a CRM, but at least the basic of pipeline management or pipeline tracking, just based on the same concept that we've built for fundraising, to start having also founders think through that structured manner of. you know, tracking revenue, especially at the beginning, right? You're like spreadsheets and emails and all that. Well, we're already plugging into your emails and calendars. So we're not gonna go get everything, but can we at least identify those prospects, start filling up the pipe, managing the data for you and making sure you're moving through the pipe and you're not, you know, you're not following or you're not dropping any follow-ups. So that's what we're doing, Jamie. But the goal is to take that to the point of creating a first Like almost like a V1 of a revenue engine for startup founders. So where do you start your demand gen based on your business model? Right. I think a lot of founders don't always know, you know, 19 traction channels and you know, you know, they they think direct, direct, but what about partnerships? What about social? What about, you know, there's a lot of different things now that you can do. And then also bringing the basic math to the side, you know, the science behind the art of selling, which is if you want to hit 10K AR, let's say I'm just starting really small. Well, how many, how many people do need to talk to? What's your what's your pipeline coverage for this to get to the 10K AR? And a lot of founders, when we start, we don't think about that. We're like, I'll just go and sell and figure it out. Well, there's a bit of math behind it if you really want to do that. So the goal for our for for me is to try to start giving that the CEO is a is to give you that grown up structure from day one, not overcomplicate it, but do that so you start getting into good habits. So as you scale. You're already with the good habits of a of a professional slash structure CO giving you all of that. That's really the goal behind all this. So yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. No, no, I think that's great. I I I love it. So okay, so you've been around this world for a long time, right? You've been involved in it, you've been around it and things. And so you're you're sort of building the things that it sounds like you wish you had, right? Is that a is that a fair way to Elisabeth Bykoff: Pretty much. I mean I'm dog footing, I guess. I don't know if that's the right you know. Yes, I'm dog footing. I'm like, you know what? I I build this thing in Claude, it's great, but it's not doing what I want. Can we take this, put it in box here, right? yeah, it's pretty much what I'm doing right now. Like I mean Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. Elisabeth Bykoff: literally. because I think, you know, you you start and I I don't know if you know peop people will call me first time founder because the sec first time I built something, I had a big brand without me and almost a a I wouldn't say a blank check. We didn't have a blank, but you know, enough money that nobody was gonna run out of money. But and so w and then working with a lot of founders, you know, you're just you're like, holy crap. Like I know investors just want us to see who survives by hustling. And I get it, right? You you need to be a certain kind of person to to do that to yourself. I I get it. You know, I totally get it. but I don't think it has to always be that hard. It will always be hard, but for certain things, I think we have the tech now, the knowledge, the expertise that can bring be brought to bear to make sure that Mo Founders are actually successful versus Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: running out of cash too quickly because you know they didn't know X, right? I don't think there's justification for it anymore. And so, you know, that was really the mission, or it's still the mission was that how much. How many more founders can I help without having to clone myself? Right, if that makes sense. Right. It's like can I not create me, but like bring all those best practices and then pump it there and help as many founders as I can. That was really the it still is. So the mission. Jamie Schneiderman: No, it's great. Well, the mission I know you're it's great. You're trying to help as many people as founders. Listen, as a as a founder, multiple time founder, I get it and I think it's great. And I love it when people are trying to do things that will help. because I could have used the help at the time on a bunch of the things that you're talking about. So let me let me just let me flip it around now. So so we know what you're building, we know who you're trying to help, what What's been the most challenging part of what you've been doing? Elisabeth Bykoff: I think to be honest, the technology side. you know, we like I said, I the idea came at the end of twenty as soon as Chat GPT came out in November or October of twenty-two, I thought, that's it. I think we're we're have something there. unfortunately it didn't stay. We're not still end of twenty-two. We had to take into account a Gentec MCP and you keep naming it, right? So Having to sometimes rebuild and keep up keep up with the innovation and sometimes trying to think, you know, even, hey, where where are we gonna get this year? Where are we gonna get in the next three months? Are we are we dead? Are we dead? Is there, you know, even to have to think about that, right? And say, okay, are we dead now? is is that it? Is that the thing that every founder is just like, I don't need this, I can build in myself or you know, it can build it for me, right? Forget. And to be honest, I just had a c a churn that replied to my my cancellation win back sequence and he was like, I'm worried about learning curve and I'm worried about if I, you know, I'm I'm setting up some stuff in Claude, wouldn't that be redundancy? Right. And and I had to answer the email, right? And say, well, yes and no. You know, and it's like, yeah, you could try. I'm sure you'll get there, but it's gonna take you time and effort. And, you know, if you're a first time founder, you might not know where to start. So you'll ask Claude to then ask you. Prompt for cloud cowork, and then you'll go, you know what I mean? And so, and then you won't have the full context and memory. So the the big the claude, all that right now are still running short on context and memory, you know, just in general, and especially with Jamie Schneiderman: Mm-hmm. Elisabeth Bykoff: all the data sources and all that. So, you know, we're still there. But technology has definitely been been the biggest challenge. Just one keep up, and then frankly, I'm a non-tech founder tech enough to get to. You know, almost the last smile, and I have the last smile, and I'm like, crap, that's where I stop. And Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: so I think that saves me, saved me in the last three years. But it's been hard to find a a tech partner in crime, also with everything that's going on in the market, right? There's a lot of people building, non tech founders building, looking for tech founders looking for or co founders, right? Looking for that tech to then take the product from MVP to production ready. And so I think there's it's almost like FOMO. Right. Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: and so that's also been a challenge from a a people or team perspective, transparently. Jamie Schneiderman: No, no. I I listen, I think it's I think you articulated it very well, like right, which is these are the things that are working for me. And then these are this is a challenge and resourcing as a challenge, especially tech resourcing as a challenge, is not goes back to the days when when I was building as a non-tech founder and it was like a long time ago, because I'm old. So the so the the but the point was is that we had technical challenges that were just different ones. They just didn't have the same thing. It wasn't the world wasn't changing at the same pace in terms of AI, but certainly types of code, types of you know, the systems, right? Like I remember Ruby on Rails coming. I know people laugh now hearing those things, but it's like this is the new, new way to do it. Well now, you know, we've completely jumped into a c in a totally different place. Anyway, the the net of the whole thing is that your you've got challenges, you're working through them. And I guess that that's the right one. So do you tr are you looking for is it like a person who will be full time? Are you looking for like a partner to do that? How are you thinking about that one problem specifically? Elisabeth Bykoff: Yeah, you know, I think you know, I had a couple of attempts to a tech co-founder, CTO, whatever title you want to give it. And so I've I've had my share of personal circumstances having to not pull through after after three months, and that's totally it happens, right? Everybody has their own personal circumstances. and so I thought I could push through a little bit longer without that. And I think I'm at a point now that I need that like I said I'm more looking for a long-term partnership. you know, not full-time right away. I have a few engineers working on that. So it's more starting to have that leadership and that oversight to to to you know really audit what we have, help strengthen it, and then eventually, you know, take take that over, if that makes sense. and and have somebody to rely on, right? Because right now it's like as you as you know, when you know, you start, it's like I'm product manager, I'm engineering lead, I'm I'm also traction, Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: so B D and all that. And so because it's the traction's accelerating, we're getting interest and I'm on calls every day with potential customers or partners or you name it, I need to be able to have somebody that I can rely on on the other side to keep the bus moving while I'm I I mean, I'm still involved. I'm still the one in front of customers. So it's not like I'm trying to like, hey, I don't want to deal with this anymore. That's not what I'm saying. But at some point you have to start, you know, multiplying yourself. And on on that, I'll be the first one to say there's only so so far I can go, right? So no, I need I need that last Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah, for sure. no, totally. Elisabeth Bykoff: smile. Jamie Schneiderman: Totally. All right. So so okay, so on that like y you work with founders. You're already built an entire system to help founders, which is amazing. and and you're experiencing it yourself, right? So the all what advice if you had to give advice to founders who are listening about what should they be thinking about? What's the what's the one Biggest and most important piece of advice you could pass on to others as they're building what they're building. Elisabeth Bykoff: it's interesting 'cause it's gonna depend on I don't think there's only one piece of advice, you know. Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. Elisabeth Bykoff: Especially in this environment, Jamie, right? It's you know, interestingly I was I was talking to a group at an event last week called Scrappy Startups, right? So you had in the audience people bootstrapping, never raised. they might have started several businesses or hustles, you know, f for now while they're Jamie Schneiderman: Uh-huh. Elisabeth Bykoff: still in a a full-time job. And then you had people that it had raised and then you had just people just operators right in there. And I got a bit of the same Same questions and I kind of put it in like three categories. So fundraising, everybody wants to fundraise. So this it's kind of changed right now. It's like, let's go for the badge of honor. Well, fundraising is not that easy right now. I'm not just gonna I'm just gonna say it. You know, I think there was a an analysis made compared to last year, and we're like eighty percent down in terms of fundraising when you adjust for all the money that's gone to open AI Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: anthropic and you all Jamie Schneiderman: Sure. Elisabeth Bykoff: the hyperscalers, right? So it's like, yeah, yeah, we're at par for or even more than twenty five. And you're like, yeah, wait, take all the money that went to the big guys. The little guys here are it's it's harder. Especially ver you know, SAS, pure SaaS AI solutions, right? Not vertical, Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: not regulated industry. it's it's It's hard. So you know, what I've seen is that so a lot of founders want to raise and you realize one, you might not be ready to raise from a business perspective, or you're not align with the expec the current expectations of the market for fundraising, which everything's shifted up. So seed is not Jamie Schneiderman: Yep, yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: a pre seed anymore, CD is not a hundred K AR, you know, CRIS A is not a million AR either. Everything has shifted up. So you know, trying to raise on a napkin and an idea, if you're not multiply you know, multiple exited founder, forget it. So Jamie, you can do it. For me, that was not an option. So you know, don't think that's possible. Just so that's number one, right? I think a lot of founders are like, that's how much revenue and I want eight million cap. And I'm like, How much Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: revenue do you have? Right. and so I think that's number one. It's like, don't think that try to bootstrap as long as possible, focus on traction, focus on your economics, because then you have better leverage and you know, and and and they will come. You know what I mean? Like if they know you're you're breaking even already or whatever, you're close to it, they will come. two, I think people always think VC when I'm like, go back to your friends, family, angel, equity, crowdfunding, if that makes sense for your business. So I think there's also that don't think only VC is an institutional, right? There's way other ways to fundraise smaller amounts first to get you going, right? I think so that's number one on fundraising. Two on product, please do not go and spend a hundred K on an MVP anymore. I've I've I've found I still have a couple of founders that get scammed. I'm sorry. I mean, we all are at at the risk of that when we're early stage first time founders, there is a lot of scams out there. So from a tech, learn the vibe coding tools. Yes, it might take you time, but just go play with it, build something that you know is not perfect, put it in front of people, you know, try to sell it, even not much. But you know, you'd be surprised there's still people that because they're non tech are just still a bit afraid or build, you know, and so don't go get scammed. That's all I'm saying. because it's still, it's still out there. And then I think from a traction perspective, you are still the first seller as a founder. I'm sorry, it's like super basic, but you'd be surprised. founders that are very technical, that are like, I don't know how to sell, and you try to go find help. Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: And you're like, no, you're still you still have to sell your first 10, let's say, right? Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: and then it's people forget about their network, believe it or not. And so that is I would say don't forget about your network. Even if it's a small network, go talk to people. Even if it's not your ICP, you know, your customer, they might know somebody who knows somebody to go get you at least to get feedback, right? Start with that feedback and all that. Stay in front of the customer. You know, all the basics now I think are even more important on the traction side than the tech or even fundraising. Do you know what I mean, Jamie? I think it's like Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Elisabeth Bykoff: anybody's moat now is distribution. IP IP is to me in SAS and AI, IP is not tech anymore. It's moat. The moat is best practice. Anything that's from your head into the product and then distribution. It's distribution. So long answer. Sorry, long answer. Jamie Schneiderman: No, I love it. I it's fantastic. This is great. No, no, no, but it's but it's a thoughtful answer too, and I think that's fantastic. So thank you. Okay, so how do people find you? How do they find you, reach you? yeah, let us know. Elisabeth Bykoff: Yeah. you can find me on LinkedIn. that's the best place to do. You can also find us at boxy.io, box s y dot io. And I have a talk to the founder. So if that's easier, do that. calendar's always open and always happy to help. You know, like I said, I do a lot of you know, give and take, let's call it. So you know, we love I love getting feedback from Boxy, but some of my customers I talk to every Friday and it's more a What's keeping you up at night? You know. And so yes, I get feedback for Boxy or what they want or what they don't like, but I also spend, you know, part of the call just helping people and just being like, Hey, let's let's talk about this. How do we help you? So yeah, anytime. Jamie Schneiderman: Amazing. I love it. Fantastic. Okay, we'll have we'll put some the links in the description and so you, you know, people can find you, and that's that's great. Elizabeth, thank you so much. This is great. thought love the insight and you sharing, and I'm excited about Boxy and and everything that it can do to help founders. And so thank you for coming. And to everybody who's watching and listening, thank you. And until next time.