Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / The Mandalorian Chapter 18: The Mines of Mandalore

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The Mandalorian Chapter 18: The Mines of Mandalore · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello there, welcome to the net Paltea.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Hi, this is Nick and Ostasu, story editor on Star Wars,
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch. And you
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: are listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Well, hello, and welcome to Aggressive Negotiations the Star Wars
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: podcast you didn't know you always needed and wanted.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: I am just one of the hosts.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Here, Matthew Rushing, and we're coming at you live from
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the Minds of Mandlor. This will be a delayed episode,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and that is because of course we cannot reach the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: outside of the galaxy from inside the minds of Mandalor.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: But with me as he is every single episode, the one,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the only, the brilliant, the beautiful, the bald John Mills.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: That's true, And Matt I would just like to say that, well,
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: I may not be able to take this helmet. I
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: think I'm gonna invest in some swim trunks and maybe
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: take some of the heavy armor off before I go
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: in the water.
• 1:07
  Speaker 5: I'm just spitballing on this one.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: You know, especially when you take off your jet pack.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: You know, like, yeah, one hundred percent agree with that.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just picturing the lego Star Wars edition of this
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: where the Mando actually is just wearing swim trunks and
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the helmet and it's.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Hysterical and I must have that.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So but before we dive into the episode, as we
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: continue our retrospective, here about the Mandalorian on our way
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: to the Mandalorian and Grogu, which John and I are
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: both so excited to see in theaters this May. And
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: this promo is not brought to you by Disney and all.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: But if you want to sponsor us, we're.
• 1:46
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• 1:51
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• 1:54
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• 1:58
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• 2:00
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• 2:06
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• 2:09
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• 2:18
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• 2:20
  Speaker 3: In fact, you know what, maybe you've got.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: A friend in life who is a Star Wars fan
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: and you're thinking to yourself.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: You know what they need.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: They need the wisdom of the Jedi Masters, tell them
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: about our podcast.
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: They also need the.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: Two hosts that will never go down into the rage
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: bait red Arrow YouTube thumbnail rabbit hole exactly. We don't
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: care about the politics behind the scenes of Disney. We
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: don't care about what they're using for what technology or
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: anything like that.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: All we care about.
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: Is talk about the stuff that matters to fans, which
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: is what's on screen and whether it holds up as
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: a story, and that is what this show is known for.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: Also also me going off on annoying tangents and Matt
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: just trying to keep me sane on occasion. Not always successful,
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: but we manage the best that we can.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: It's true.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: It's true.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: So, John, we arrive at the second episode of season
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: three of The Mandalorian and this is called The Minds
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: of Mandalor. And thankfully that is not a tease. We
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: actually get to go to.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: The Minds of Mandalor. But I wanted to ask.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: You about how this episode starts, because you know, we
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: talked a little bit last time about how the episode
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: did feel slightly disjointed with the storytelling.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: It kind of felt like it didn't.
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: Exactly know what.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: To do with itself in the sequence of events in
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: that episode. It almost felt like an editor's mistake if
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: you ask me. But this one we pick up somewhat
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: where we left off in the sense that Mando needs
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a droid to help him discover whether or not the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: air of Mandalor is breathable is toxic and what he
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: can do about that, and so he ends up on
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: tant He ends up on tatsu Ween on Boon to
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Eve no doubt John. So our first time to be
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: able to see Boom to Eve, which I mean, I
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: was super excited.
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: That is pretty exciting.
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: It's the ultimate kind of callback because they don't draw
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: a ton of attention to it. If you hear the
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: Boonta reference, you get that it's an episode one reference.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: But it's the right type of callback because it functions
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: within the context of the story itself without detracting from it.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: It's not a wink at the audience. It's simply, oh,
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: this is that thing. I know he's back during this festival. Okay,
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: it's not, and it's not left field. It feels very
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: organ to everything. What I wanted to ask you though,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: is now here we are in the third season, and
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: is it starting to feel at this point that Tatooine
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: is a crutch or do you think that Tattoine makes
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: sense like it? Is it a crutch or is it
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: simply a reliable, known story entity where when Mando hits
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: a hitch, he's always going to go back there, and
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: it makes sense that he's going back there.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that is a good question,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: But no, I think it actually makes sense for the
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: for the story, partially because of where he is in
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: the galaxy. You know, one of the things that these
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: two episodes have been doing is having Mando teach Grogu
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: about you know, spaceflight and knowing where you are and
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: seeing the star charts and all that kind of stuff.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: So the fact that he is kind of in this
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: sector of space where you know, Tatooine and Mandalor and
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: these planets are not that far from one another other,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I think makes sense then. And you know, the beauty
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: about Tatooine is it is a place where junk just
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: ends up, you know, especially old junk, right, And so
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the fact that he would kind of go there hoping
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: that then he would be able to find a piece
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: for the ig droid makes a lot of sense.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: And you know what's hilarious.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Is the the poor R five unit that has eked
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: an existence out there on Tatooine is is now with Mando.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: And I just love that there's this continuous thread for
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: this droid having the worst days ever in his existence.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: And you know, to me, that was an excellent use of.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Tatooine and this kind of again, there's this the R
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: five thread that's been playing across the entire series, right
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: that we've been seeing, and you know, that's a direct
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: connection to the original Star Wars and it's fun and
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: so I didn't really have an issue with it at all,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: and I think it was like.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: Just the right And this is where.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I the reason I really think it works for this episode,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: because it's just the right amount of humor for an
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: episode itself where the rest of it is going to
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: be kind of serious, pretty scary. There's some really, I
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: would say, you know, wonderfully kind of alien like scary
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: type references in this episode with the you know, the
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: droid semi living possible brain eye. Yeah, you know, it's terrifying, right,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: And so I think having this levity up front at
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: the episode was was a great way to begin so
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that the rest of the episode can kind of really
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: dig into some really important stuff. So, I mean, did
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: it feel like that to you? Did it work for
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: you going to Tatooine? Are you starting to feel that
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: at all?
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: I know, I've come to accept Tatowine as just a
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: place where we're going to go. Tatowine becomes a hub,
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: and I think it plays into a more.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Almost like a Galaxy's Edge type of place.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, something well almost you could have based a theme
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: park after it. I don't know, you know, that sort
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: of thing could have, But no, the thing is this
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: use of Tatowine, I would think for older fans, and
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: by older I mean slightly older than you, which I am.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: I know plenty of older fans quote unquote. I'm not
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: ancient or anything, but like you know, those that were,
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: you're really part of the first well, we were part
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: of the first wave of everything right right, And I
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: think that we grew up with the idea of Tatooine
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: from Luke's perspective, where we agreed with Luke that it
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: was the ass end of space and nobody went there
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: for any reason. And starting with the special additions, it
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: became Yes, it's the ass end of space.
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: However everybody goes there.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: It's a hub, and so the fact, yeah, exactly, the
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: fact that Tatoine is a hub.
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: This makes sense. You're on the outer rim. Where are
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: you going to go? That's reliable, that's just this side
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: of the law. But you can still get bootleg parts.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: You're going to go there, And it's like, that's that's
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: fitting with the identity of Tatooine. As we've noted since
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety seven, it's only people that can't really let
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: go of that original nineteen seventy seven to eighty three
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: impression of Tatoine that it becomes a real issue. And
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: I can't stress that enough that I know people for
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: which it will always be an issue, but for me
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: it is not not because I'm any better, but because
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: I guess I'm just young at heart or whatever. But
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: like it's just in keeping with tatto as we know
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: it now completely makes sense, especially to give it credit
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: host book of Boba Fette. Seeing how most ESPA has changed,
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: I now have that in my head. There's a sense
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: of progress and development on tato Wine that doesn't limit
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: it forever to the dusty farmland that Luke grew up on,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: So it makes perfect sense. You mentioned scary eyeball thing
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: that's the big Droid, which I think is one of
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: the best alien elements of Star Wars in ages. I
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: thought it was brilliant. My question for you is is
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: it resolved too quickly?
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: No, And partially because I think that the beauty of
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: what they do is that it is it is just
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: this you know, kind of out there off the chain,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: strange thing you know that we see in Star Wars
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that we basically get zero explanation for. It's like the Dianoga, right,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: That's what it reminds me of, where it's just this.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: Super creepy, very weird.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I've got no context for it until it shows up,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and then once it's gone, it's gone kind of thing.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And the reason I say to me that it it's
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: not gone too quickly because you know, one of the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: hallmarks well, and in one of the trademarks here of
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: the show, you know, starting with the Book of boa
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Fett and the training of Din with the Lightsaber, is
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Dinn struggle to be able to wield the lightsaber because
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: of and I don't know if it's because there is
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: a real lack of connection with him in the Force,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: or if there's some kind of barrier there that's not
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: allowing him to be able to wield it with better
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: precision like you would expect him to be able to
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: as a weapons expert. I mean, you know, we saw
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: him with the best gar staff and knew exactly how
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: to use it and how to wield it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: The guy seems to know how to use.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Every weapon except a lightsaber, and and I thought, what
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: was really interesting is that then on the other side
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: of this episode, you know, you have Bocaton. The moment
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: she picks this up, she knows exactly how to use it,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: and she does so with excellent precision and almost with
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: the skill of a Jedi, and which is interesting and
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: has that recollection then for us in our minds that
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: you know, she fought alongside Jedi and she lived in
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: a time where you know, I would say, you know,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: the Force was more expansive in you know, its sense
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: in the galaxy. And so what I love about this
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: episode is that in all of that, it creates a
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: lot of questions for me. So I'm not frustrated that
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: this alien being thing, whatever it is, is kind of
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: there and then gone, because it only kind of is
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: there to I think, accentuate this dichotomy between these two
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: characters and their struggle, right, And I really to me
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: that that's what that is used for. I don't know
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: if you feel the same way, or if it's just
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: that you loved the design so much you're like, oh man,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I just woant to love more of that and maybe
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: we'll see it again, who knows.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I recognize that that is. That is simply my
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: my end with it is.
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: I just thought it was so cool and so unsettling.
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: And so creepy, like it disturbed me in a way
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: like a horror movie that did when I was growing Yes.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, there is a cree the real horror movie vibe
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: to this, which I think feels so kind of Clone
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Wars right in the sense of that you would have
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: those Clone Wars episodes where you would have an element
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: like this and they were playing with that genre that vibe.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: So I love that you bring that out.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: But see what I love that you bring out is, yeah,
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: the tradition of the single use monster exists within Star
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: Wars for all time. I still am super curious as
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: to that cut moment that cut moment, cut scene whatever
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: from Revenge of the Sith. We know that we were
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: gonna get a monster for the movie, and then they
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: cut it for time. Probably the best choice overall, but
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: you know, a cute little thing that would have been great,
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: whether it's Sarank or the Dianoga, the Wampa. I mean,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: there's the whole arena in Attack of the Clones, you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: the colo clawfish, all of that's like it's known for
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: these single use monsters, but I did love the design.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: The thing that I think is interesting about the dark
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: Saber usage is the fact that, on some metaphorical level,
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: it accentuates the fact that there's a distinction between Bokatan
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: and Din as Mandalorians. Bo is a Mandalorian by birth,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: the Dark Saber responds to her. Dinn is a Mandalorian
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: by choice. That Dark Saber does not respond to him.
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: So even if you want to say force sensitivity, maybe
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: throw that out and just simply say the force recognizes
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: that this sword belongs with a Mandalorian from Mandalre. That
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: opens up a whole ton of terrible questions because maff
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: Gideon's able to wield the thing with no problem. So
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: that makes me start asking, what's mauf Gideon's origin story?
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: Where does he come from? Was Gideon the call coming
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: from inside the house?
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: Because when you start talking about it, well, if we're
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: going to draw that distinction that the dark Saber responds
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: to a true Mandalorian quote unquote better than an adoptive
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: Mandalorian quote unquote, maybe that's something. But we do have
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: to go back and rely on what the armorer said
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: in the Book of Boba Fett. She knew how to
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: wield the dark Saber. Yeah, so was she from mandalor
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: was she You know, like they're likely just by you
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: pointing that out there, suddenly all of these story origin
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: things that you can start talking about that I never
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: want answered because until you said that and I started
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: thinking about it in that way, I'm like, Wow, I
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: can sort of play with that in my brain and
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: I can enjoy that a lot.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, and I think that that is
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: one of those areas to which, you know, Star Wars
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: at its best knows the things to answer and the
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: questions to leave out there. Right, you know, Yoda, we
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: never find out what his species is and what makes
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: them so special?
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: You know, even though we discuss Midichlorians, the way in
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: which all of that actually works, especially with the way
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: we delve into it in the Clone Wars, we actually
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: understand less than we thought we did, right, it makes
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: it even more complicated and strange, you know, the Mortis
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: gods and hold out how all that work? I mean,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you know, you raise more questions than you actually answer,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: and so every time you answer one, it's like you
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: have three more there.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: And I heartily.
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: Agree with you.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I think that's just kind of the beauty of when
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Star Wars is really humming.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: As a series.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: You know, you've said this a million times and always
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: think it's it's it's really smart in the sense of
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Star Wars doesn't answer any of the questions about how
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: the technology works. We just accept that it works because
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: it works. And that's not what the story is about,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: because it everything here is a vehicle to actually tell story.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing about Star Wars. It is character driven,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: it is story driven. It is driven by you.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Know, the most primordial of story.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Ideas, with you know, the hero of a thousand faces
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and these classic archetypes. That's what makes Star Wars great,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and that's why I think the best of Star Wars
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: will continue to resonate for you know, another fifty years
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and so, but I wanted to ask you about this
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: because one of the things that rewatching this episode one,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I was struck by how freaking good it is compared
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: to this first episode, Like, this episode is like one
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: of the best episodes of the Mandalorian And so I'm
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: giving that away, I guess ratings wise, but I just
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: really think this episode hums on every level. But one
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: of the things that I thought was so great about
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: it is the way it utilizes some storytelling elements that
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: are going to play into the rest of the season
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: so well. But here we're connecting this idea of Bo
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: talking about that what has destroyed Mandaloriance more than anything else,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: more than the empire, is the infighting between these different
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: sects and that they have basically been their own worst enemies.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And what I really liked about that, right, is that
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: that is so Lucasian to create a thematic element that
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: could work on every level at every point in history.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: So I can apply that to where we are now,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: but I could have applied that to where I was
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: and where the world was when you know, I was younger,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure I'll be able to apply it when
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like eighty, you know, and people will be able
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to do that in one hundred years. And that's where
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: this episode really grabbed me, and I felt like it
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: was really doing a great job of highlighting the best
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: of what makes Star Wars great is grabbing a thematic
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: element and utilizing the characters and their story to bring
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that to light. And I mean that's you know, Favreau.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I think you know he's the writer on this episode.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: And this is where.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: As much as a problem I had with the first episode,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: this one it's like, Wow, what a revelation on really
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: getting it.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: I still think that with just the most minor of
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: tweaks bringing forward the closure of the first episode, bring
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: that in as an opening to this episode, like a
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: couple of movements here and there from a story editing perspective,
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: make these two episodes flow a lot more easily. And
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: I almost wonder, because they've got the cachet by this
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: point that it debuted. I am of the opinion that.
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: They were forced to break this story in this way.
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: And what this this second episode emphasizes for me is
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: that if I take Episode one in episode two, and
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: I put them together, and I make a couple of
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: trims here and there. You have to make a couple
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: of cuts and decisions, like you can't just slap two
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: episodes together sort of thing. But on the whole, could
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: have made the most amazing like hour and a half
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: two hour opener and just kick back in with swagger
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: and be like, you know what, screw you, you're gonna
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: get now and forty five minute episode here because we've
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: been off the air for a few years, we're gonna
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: come back.
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: We're just going to kick this door open.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: And I think that the two episodes together could have
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: combined in such a way that they wind up being
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: really amazing. The only difficulty with it is it's a
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: long way to go for the episodes, so there would
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: there would have to be some work to make it
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: break properly. But sort of like a core question, I
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: think at the core.
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: Of this.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: Is Grogu's development. Do you think that Grogu actually advances
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: in this episode in an appreciable way where you feel
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: like the character is really moving forward because we've had
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: happen now, Grogu barely moves forward in seasons one and two,
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: and gets taken away by Luke. He seems to have
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: not advanced as much as he should have when we
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: encounter in the Book of Boba Fet. But here, do
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: you think that Grogu shows signs that he's going to
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: start maturing and changing with the Avengers or does he
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: still seem a little stuck.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Well, I think one of the things about this episode
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: is that he seems to be one just even more vocal,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and so it's almost like, you know, there's a recognition
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: that he's really understanding a lot more and even trying
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to almost kind of verbalize his understanding to others, which
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's movement and the character growth. I also
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: think the character growth for him to handle life without
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Mando in this episode, to be able to get himself
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: back to the surface, keep himself safe and fly the ship,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and even all before that to try and save Mando himself,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: you know, with his utilization of the force, and so
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the beauty of that is that I think it does
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: show that the character has moved forward, but it also
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: shows you how much further the character still has to go, right,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: he hasn't completely mastered his level of the force yet.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Of course, you know, Bo even asking him, you know,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: what's how good are you with the force? You know,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: which is it's so great to be able to have
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a character be able to say the thing that we
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: always want to say to Grogu himself, you know, as
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the audience that Din doesn't even think to talk about
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: because that's not his experience, you know, where as Bo
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: has a completely different experience saying, hey, I knew Jedi,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I fought with Jedi, I Jedi wore my friends basically,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: you know, and so I'm kind of interested to see
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: what you could do, you know, and I think that
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: shows growth there. So yeah, to me, this is one
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: of those things that I also really enjoyed about the episode.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I think it's a very fair question, but it was
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the fact that I felt like this character was finally
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: showing a substantial movement that it felt like had been stagnant,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: which is again, you know, as we move towards the
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: movie Mandalarian and Grogu, just the trailers alone give us
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: a sense that Grogu himself has grown again. You know,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: he has become more confident in himself. He's he's becoming
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: somebody who seems to be able to handle more, which
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to see because in so and I
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: like that you pointed out, but like the baby Yoda
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: aspect has gotten a little stale.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I want.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: To see the character progress, you know, I want to
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: see the character grow, and heck, I would love to
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: see the character, you know, actually be again to verbalize
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and talk and be able to be somebody who is
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: less of a prop and more of an actual character.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: And this gave us a first inkling of what that
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: might look like, right, which was really nice.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: I agree.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: I think it shows good movement for Grogu, it shows
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: promise for the future, and so sort of like the
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: final question, I never appreciated until the moment that bo
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: Katan sees the Mythosaur exactly how much of sort of
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: like a religious myth it was, how much of a
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: it was accepted as never having actually existed sort of thing,
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: which is disorienting because reading the tales of the Jedi
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: comics from way back in the day from Dark Horse
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: Comics and stuff like that, so much in the mandalor
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: stuff that they were trying to explain about the mandalor
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: back then and the way that everything worked and all
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: of those sorts of things.
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: Is really wild.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: Do you think that that Mythosaur moment is earned and
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: do you think that in the context of the episode
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: it reads as impactful to a more casual fan as
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: it does to a longtime fan.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I think one of the smart things that they did
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: throughout this whole episode was utilize Bo caton to bring
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: those in who don't know much about Mandalorians to basically
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: explain Mandel War to Din who's never been there and
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: doesn't know a lot of this stuff, you know. So
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: as she's doing this explanation and this you know, info dump,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it's not boring because the character of Din is responding
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: to it, right. And the beauty of it is is
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: that is Bo is doing it in kind of this
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: cynical way, and for Dinn, this is the most spiritual
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: experience of his life, right, you know. And so that's
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the thing I love. And so the beauty of the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: mythis or moment to me is that this is the
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: moment for the character of Bo where I think her
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: faith is restored in the sense of the rest of
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: the season for the character of Bo. And this is
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: a retrospective, so we don't have to like pretend like
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: we've never seen it, but that character's trajectory is going
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: to be about not only reclaiming Mandalor, but doing it
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: for all Mandalorians, bringing all Mandalorians together, to bring the
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: factions together and to live life and harmony again. And
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I think the Mythosaur gives her this inspiration of like, oh,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: if that's really real, then anything's possible kind of thing.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: And the beauty of.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: The moment is just the quick where like you see
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: her reaction come out in just like the gasp that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: you can tell that she has of like, holy buckets,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: this is a real thing.
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: And just as a final note on that, as a person,
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: both of us as people who have been with Bocatan
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: since she was first introduced, to go through this entire
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: journey and to see her go from let's be honest
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: idealists to cynic and that to see the exact moment
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: where the idealism can creep back in, can come back in,
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: and the way that she's brought back from her cynicism
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: is from somebody that she derided for his faith. That
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: is also classic Star Wars because at its core, regardless
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: of what anybody else says about what.
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: Makes Star Wars work and everything. One of the.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: Things that is embedded in its DNA is the idea
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: of faith and its importance to a people and to
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: its culture and to its society, which is I'm not
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: proselytizing here, everybody. I'm saying though, that there has to
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: be a belief in something.
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: What is it? Leave that to the debate.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: I'm not bringing that into it, but there has to
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: be People have to believe in something to keep going.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: They can't have this nihilistic view. They can't believe that
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: it's all meaningless. You go back to a relatively throw
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: away line an episode two, which is just given by
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: the New Queen, where she says, the minute we stopped
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: believing that democracy can work is the moment it dies?
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: Or whatever the line is.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: I've probably butchered it right there, but you know the
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: line I'm talking about.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she says, is the moment is the moment we
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: lose it?
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah? Yah? Is the moment we lose it? Like that
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: is the key right there. You have to believe in something.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: And seeing this character go on that whole journey, as
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: a longtime fan who's been with her since the Clone Wars,
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: like that was an incredibly special moment.
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: Boom, they gave us what we wanted.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: We wanted to see somebody restore their faith in the
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: world to tell us it's okay for us not to
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: lose hope. That's huge, man. It's about not giving up,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: it's about staying with it. And bo Catan is rewarded
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: for being there for the believer, and I think that's
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: really cool.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the cliche is that you know, she
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: now has a new hope. And I think that's the
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: thing about this too, is that the beauty of this
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: episode is the way in which, you know, Lucas always
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: talked about that Star Wars is rhythming and rhyme and
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and this idea that these these themes continue to replay.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: And part of that is because that's how we are
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: as human beings. You'll look at the long span of
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: history and you will see that the same lessons and
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the same stories are being told over and over again
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: in different ways.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: And that's when Star Wars is doing it right. It's
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: helping us to be reminding it. It's helping us to
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: be reminded of that. And I think, you know, that's
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: what makes this this this episode really good. So, uh,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: your your criticism and not really criticism, but your thought
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: about how the two episodes could have been combined with. Notwithstanding,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: what what are you going to rate this episode? Do
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: you think where? Where did would this land for you?
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: Rewatching this with my kid, I think it's a little
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: dense with its significance. It's a little it was a
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: little heavy for her to get all of the layers
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: of everything, not because she's slow, but because she hasn't
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: had the life experience that makes certain moments resonate with her. Okay,
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: I hope that's a fair comment where it's like there
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: are certain things where when she gets a little older,
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: it'll mean more to her.
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like I just rewatched Field of Dreams, right.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: That movie meant nothing to me as a twenty year old.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I watched that movie now in my late forties. It's
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: completely different, completely it's like it and so, I yeah,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I think that's just that's the way storytelling is.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: So I will wind up giving this episode a four
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: and a half out of five because I think that
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: the I think it's beautiful, and I think that this
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: message is beautiful, and I think that the the direction
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: it points us for the rest of the season. I
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: came out of the second episode saying, this is it. Okay,
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: we're back on our feet and we're doing something really
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: deep and meaningful.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: So four and a half for me, what about you?
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to call out Rachel Morrison, who directed
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: this episode, because I think she did a phenomenal job.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: This episode actually looks great.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of places where I think the volume
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: is utilized to its best potential.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: Here for the most part, so great stuff. Yeah, I'm
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: just going to give this a five.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I think partially because you know where, I one hundred
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: percent understand where you're coming from, and I think it
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: is It's not criticism, it's just the way it is right.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: But on the other side of that, it's like I
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: love all that right the life experience.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: But also as Star Wars.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Fans, we do enjoy when something dives into lore and
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: helps us understand something that.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: You know, when we all saw.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Boba Fett back in the day, none of us had
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: any clue that there was this long, amazing, storied history
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: with this incredible you know, society and culture, and.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: This is one of those episodes.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: That helps officially unpack what that story is and that's
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: a fun reward for those of us, you know. I
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: mean you've been you know, a fan a little bit
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: longer than I have, just because you're a little bit older.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: But it's like we've basically been there mostly.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: From the beginning, and it's like, this is the kind
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: of stuff that somewhere in our brain we kind of
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: knew just from the design of characters and stuff, that
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: something like this had to be out there. And when
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: you get rewarded like that, it's just joy. I mean,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: that's what makes being a fan fun.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: How crazy is it that all we were really responding
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: to in nineteen eighty And I can tell you because
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: so I was there, was that that armor was awesome
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: and hey, that's son of a captured Han Solo, you
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: rat son of Don't worry, I'll bleep all that, and
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: like that he instantly becomes a legend and just that
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: cool set of armor springs into all of this.
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: How amazing is all of that? It is crazy as.
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: Crazy absolute cinema, absolute cinema. It is crazy. It is
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: as crazy as all of the places where people can
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: find you online, Matt, where can we find you?
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Well, uh if I am on a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: social media platform, my name is Matt Rushingzer too, so
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: just type that in if I'm there. I'd love to
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: talk to you, follow you, get back to you if
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: you've got a question or comment or complaint, and I mean,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: let's be honest, that's what social media is really about,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: is complaining. But anyway, you can also find me here
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: on the network doing Post, which is a completed show
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: about every single chapter of the Harry Potter series. I
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: can also find me over on the TFM network doing
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: a bunch of shows. One's The six oh two Club,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: and actually I got a new co host that's going
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: to be joining me on that show, which I'm really excited.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: So if you listen to some of the recent episodes,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: you'll hear him, and he's going to be joining me
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: much more often now, so I'm really excited about that.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: But John is also a frequent guest over there, so
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you could check out all of our discussions about things
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: outside of Star Trek, and then I've got tons of
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: great Star Trek talk over there with my good friend
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Chris Jones. So but John, if people are wondering what
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: your Mandalorian exercise regiment is, like, where can people find you?
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: Well, my Mandalorian exercise regiment, just so everybody knows is
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: where is jetpack everywhere, even in the shower. And what
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: it does is really builds really good muscle tone in
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: your shoulders. It's a real pain in the butt when
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: you're trying to climb ladders or swim or sleep.
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: You know what, I've never I've.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: Examined whether it has something to do with all of
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: my constant back pain. I'll have to look into that.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: I'll ask a Mandalorian.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: Doctor about that.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: But if you want to talk to me about that,
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: give me some advice. You can find me as Kessel
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: Junkie on your social network of choice. I love Letterbox,
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: I love good reads. I read books a lot. I
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: watch a lot of movies usually, so find me over
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: there at K E S S E L j U
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: N K I E. I love appearing over on the
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: six or two Club. Feels like it's been a minute
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: since I've been on there, so I think I'm gonna
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: have to appear sometime soon. And of course you can
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: find me here on the network doing the Lord's Work,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: educating Tristan Riddell and Darren Moser on what they should
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: think about movies over on house Lights and Matt, I
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: gotta tell you, I really think this jetpack thing. I
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: think I need to get back to the temple and
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: talk to the doctor. So I think it's time to
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: close these negotiations.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: John negotiations part of Clothes. Join the Revolution, Join the
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: Nerd Party.