Latest / A Level Playing Field / Laura Montgomery’s Lasting Impact on the Growth of Women’s Football I A Level Playing Field I Episode 19

Transcript

Laura Montgomery’s Lasting Impact on the Growth of Women’s Football I A Level Playing Field I Episode 19 · A Level Playing Field

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to a level playing field sponsored by Nutmeg Magazine, the Scottish Football Quarterly.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for your next great football read, the World Cup special issue of Nutmeg Magazine is available to purchase now.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can order your copy at nutmegmagazine.co.uk to enjoy stories from Scotland's adventures on the greatest stage.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of a level playing field.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Cheryl Smith alongside Alison McConnell as usual, and we're joined today by a person whose impact on women's football not only in Scotland but across the board can't be underestimated.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Glasgow City CEO and co-founder Laura Montgomery is with us.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Laura, thank you for giving us a slice of your time.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: We know it's a really busy part of the season and you wear many hats as well.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we're delighted to get you on.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, thanks for thanks for asking me, guys.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: How's the season?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just to kick us off, how's this season been for you?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's I suppose lots of ups and downs on and off the on and off the pitch.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're not finished yet.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: But how's it how's it been so far?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh definitely a roller coaster.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think overall it's been a good season for us.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think um we you know started the season really strongly.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think we had a a really good run in Europe, um, and I think you can see the benefit of the Europa Cup for you know for clubs in Scotland.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that was fantastic, not just for us, but also for our fans to go and play in countries and against teams we'd never, you know, we'd never played before.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: We've been fortunate to be in Europe for many, many years.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: So just to have that different look and feel, I think was exciting.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you know, we competed against who I would have said, you know, was a pretty, pretty big team in sport and Lisbon.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, to go out an extra time I think was really good.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we've then continued that with a good run in the league.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, last few weeks obviously haven't been quite what we would have wanted.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, I think we've won, you know, we've won the first piece of silver.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: We're disappointed to get knocked out um with the Scottish Cup on Saturday.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and we're still we're still trying to compete for the league.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, you can always say it can be better, but you know, over the piece, I think you know, we have been competing um on all fronts on all four competitions.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: You'd imagine too, maybe that Europa League campaign.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think you guys have now played maybe 44, 45 games.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe a good 10, 11 games, maybe more, for example, more than Hearts who'll be sitting at the top of the league, maybe get to this point in the campaign and feel as though that has an effect.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it does.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think we have this kind of challenge and debate quite a lot in women's football across the board, not just in Scotland, but you'll have certain teams and certain players play a lot more games than others, because you're right, you know, we've played, you know, mid-40s.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of our players are international players.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let's add on another 10 games, they are playing easily, you know, 50-60 games a year, and then there'll be other players in the league that you know are only really playing the league games and teams maybe not getting far in the cup, they're not international players.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it's trying to balance those players getting enough football and other players not playing too much.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's uh I think it's a bit of a challenge for the world as a whole of women's football, because even in the international calendars, you know, we have one more international window than than the men do.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um the men will say already they're playing more football than they should, so I'd say that's a problem internationally, but I know from some of my work I've done before in FIFA, if there's no international calendar, some countries and some women don't play football.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so you're trying to balance the growth of the game and grassroots with you know the elite level it's built up, particularly in UFA countries.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Touch, I think, again just uh later on in the title race at the moment, but if we can take you all the way back to 1998 Apologies, six face ninety um you know, back in 1998, just what pushed you and Carolyn Stewart obviously to start a football club?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a problem that you were trying to solve?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: What was the suggestive of the reason behind it?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: I would say I say now for myself it was a sliding doors moment.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I tore my ACL.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I had only like I I'm of that era where you couldn't really play when you were younger.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I did get to play properly, it was at university, and then I found out there was senior football because it didn't exist, there weren't people at you guys writing about it, you know, and nobody was getting any space, so it was word of mouth.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I managed to play senior football in my when I when I went to university, and then after a year I had that curse of the ACL, so then I didn't play for three years, so it's a terrible knee problem I had with my ACL.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I probably went from being the excited young woman who was playing football organised for the first time to then actually taking in the environment because as you do, you still go to all the training sessions, you still go to all the games, and it was doing that I probably started to realise that actually what was being afforded to women, you know, the space we were being given wasn't really what I thought we deserved.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then Cass and I at that point uh were obviously playing for a team that wasn't ours.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, don't get me wrong, we were always you know getting involved and trying to help out and organise, but we felt that you know things needed to be better, and we felt the best path to do that was to start our own club.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do you actually that's probably an enormous answer and we don't have time, but how do you actually go about I'm gonna start a football club?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: How do you start it?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: What do you how do you You need to plan, prepare?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think, yeah, I just I've probably always been a bit I'm always been a bit weird and a bit like that.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: I even started a team um in in my old school, which which Alice and No.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I I had been watching the game because I was out injured, so I had a good eye for who were the good players.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Playing university football, I could see there's an untapped market of some players that maybe weren't played at the level they could, so I kind of knew which players to identify.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Cass and I were already involved in administration, you know, aspects of the club.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: We knew financially what it would take to put you know uh a team together, and you know, we're quite bullshy, ambitious women, so we're not afraid to ask for help.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, we're we're also young professionals, we were able to put, you know, proper business proposals together for you know for sponsors, etc.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I just think it was um just the confidence to go out and and be confident in what we wanted to do and what we wanted to achieve, and then we were fortunate enough, you know, enough young women bought into what we told them we were going to do, and we managed to create a team.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Could you have envisaged the journey that you would go on?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes and no.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and that I think Cass and I are quite visionary and that you know we do have great belief in and certainly then what we could achieve.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: We were probably also naive though, because at that point we would make statements like, you know, we will win titles in Europe, you know, no concept of actually the level of European football.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, in terms of we weren't certainly weren't lacking ambition.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um if somebody had said to me, you know, you'd be doing this 30 years later and you know the opportunities that would be available now and the size of the club and you know all the all the opportunities that young girls have, you know, one of the most pleasurable things for me is seeing, you know, our six and seven-year-olds, you know, coming along and joining and there being no barriers to playing football.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's just such a joy because you know, we did have that when we were kids.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it was sort of twofold.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was to give adults a a place to play at a club to play at and then create a pathway, like you say, for the younger players.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: What were those early years like in terms of things like I mean, things that people don't think about, the finances around running it, you know, getting pitches that you can play on strips that fit.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was like, you know, back in the 90s, you've seen the pictures and things like that, and everything's catered to men, I suppose.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's horrendous.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I look back because we, you know, particularly Chris or head of marketing now, he's constantly pulling pictures out of the archives, and obviously I'm in half of them, and I'm like, you know, I actually looked after myself.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I ate well, I was pretty fit, but you just look horrendous.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, nobody does not look horrendous in those strips that are all far too big.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And even the thing of like goalkeeping gloves, you know, yeah, the goalkeepers had to either wear kids' gloves, which were plastic, or ones that were massive because you know, you're wearing ones for for men's hands.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it it was very different, very challenging.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Pitches would be cancelled last minute, you know, you were fundraising constantly, you were backpacking, you know, all the things now that our players would never do in a million years, you know, fill out scratch cards, go and ask their granny to sponsor them to do something, you know.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: You pretty much did everything you could to to get the finances.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it's quite well documented that Cass and I used to put our European trips on our credit cards to fund to fund playing in Europe initially.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: You paid that off, yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: But we used to we used to fundraise it later because you you'd have this anomaly of the season would finish in kind of June and then you'd be off July and August, and you couldn't really go out and saying we were going to win the league when you hadn't, so you had to win it first.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we would credit card it and then frantically try and fundraise it all back.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Was it all that kind of stuff?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Was that actually quite mentally kind of taxing on the both of you because you're trying to hold this whole thing together and and the financial thing into just like a lot of a lot of pressure on the other thing?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, 100%.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, considering I used you know, I used to be playing, doing all that, and then obviously had a full-time job as well.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's um, you know, it was very you probably don't take it in as much till you're older and you realise maybe how mentally challenging it was to balance all those different things.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which I think for me, you know, the fortunate position I'm in now that this is now a full-time job for me, you know.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not naive to think if that probably hadn't have changed, I probably would have had a heart attack or a stroke because living life like that, you know, trying to run a business while also working full-time in other high-level businesses is quite challenging.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're just at it all the time.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Was there ever a point where you thought I'm going to come to a crossroads here or I'm going to get it?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, particularly when Kat was really unwell, you know, that was a really hard time for me because you know, emotionally and and mentally, that you know, even the physical consequences that would have, you know, on you as a strain, that was that was a big challenge.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there was many times during that period I was like, I just can't do this anymore.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just too too hard.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm not giving myself properly home, I'm not giving myself properly to my work, I'm not giving myself properly to my other work that I do for free.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that was probably the closest.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: But then similarly, I'm glad I never because it fuels me, it drags me, and you know, it's fantastic to see, you know, the opportunities that that we still create for women and girls.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that I mean it's very obvious that your whole life is still quite full on.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you you do find it easy to relax and park things?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking of Alison who has 77 jobs.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just are you able to leave at the door?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Probably probably not, I guess.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm not.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's um you you never are in football.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, literally, even I mean, I work every holiday, it's it's transfer window time.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I have, you know, agents text message me all the time whenever there's whenever there's a crisis, at some point the crisis comes to me because everyone just keeps pushing it up the ladder.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: So no, you you don't, but it's it's also it's also um I'd say the benefit, but it's you know, I'm fortunate the position I'm in, so it's it's just the side of the job that it comes, and if you're going to have this type of career, then you really can't avoid it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd think I'm quite good.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm quite a relaxed person.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm generally not a stressed person, and I think that definitely helps, but yeah, sometimes getting to sleep at night can be challenging because as much as you try to switch off, it's not always possible.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever get away from football?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever switch off from football?
• 11:25
  unknown: No.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, no.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: If we look at things like you know, the game today, Alison and I have spoken about this to Rose Riley, I think Hugh MacDonald from a different point of view, journalistic point of view, and then um Fiona McIntyre as well.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: The ban obviously that derailed women's football and you know its advancement.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it was lifted in 1974 by the Scottish FA, but those lost years, do you still personally from your point of view, do you still see the effect of those lost years now because of where the game is and where it where it could be, I suppose?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know it wasn't just really up till 74 because you know, even even when I was playing, um I mean when I when I started to play, the National team were running about in random tartan shirts.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean they weren't even they weren't even accepted.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think the SFE maybe took them under 98, I want to say.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think 98 was uh I think 98.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Ah so they had random kits on, and then even when they did get the national team kits, they're you know, throughout all my years as a player, the national team would come back and get sent into the toilet at Glasgow Airport to take their kit off.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they were given like one tracksuit and they went in, you know, they were demeaned to go into the toilet and come back out with their own clothes on and hand their tracksuits back.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: So as much as the game had been accept as not even a word but acknowledged, um we were still, you know, it's it's still it's still taken decades, you know, to get anywhere near where we are now.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I wouldn't even say 74 was the change.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was many, many years after that.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that undoubtedly um has had a significant effect.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you even see it in the physicality of players.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: You see every single, you know, major tournament we have now, the players are getting fitter, faster, stronger.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's only because now each more and more tournament, the women that are competing actually will have had proper strength and conditioning from their teenage years rather than just you know very, very late on in their career.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: So all these things are having significant impacts, and that's that's the same as as well as you know, the quality of people involved, running clubs, um, you know, all the help off the pitch, on the pitch um is improving.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, I think we've still got a long way to go.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sadly, probably in our country, I think still in terms of you know the amount of exposure that we get.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I talk frequently about travelling to um Hamden for the Luxembourg game.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was away I could go to the one at Easter Road, but you know, I was driving in the car and the you know the radio's coming on with the sports news, and we are playing a World Cup qualifier, and it's still not mentioned.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I'm and I think you know the radio channel in particular is the biggest in the west of Scotland, and they gave a shout out to like come boys under 12s that were competing in some trophy, and I'm like, that's the difference.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Even our national team has a World Cup qualifier, and we're not even mentioning it.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, in those instances, you can stay.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: See, we've still got a long way to go.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you're a follower of the game, you know how to find it, but we're certainly not we're still not making it readily available.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I do think there is still a cultural echo that you're having to change, and and part of that is is within the media landscape where you are still fighting for its place, you're still fighting to see it deserves to be amplified and and recognised.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And if you compare and contrast what the exposure would be for a men's World Cup game and what it would be for a women's day, it's night and day, and I know because I cover both, so you you you can see both, and and I understand lots of the the arguments and reasoning for that, but also the more you give it its place and the more you amplify it, the quicker that it can grow, and and the more opportunity you have to bring on the kind of stakeholders and sponsorship associations that enable you to take those next steps.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think sometimes it feels like a very frustrating chicken and egg situation.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and it's is I mean it does it, it costs money, but you know, if if if if things aren't getting automatically picked up and marketed, then you know we need to market it.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you can see the benefit.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you saw the Scotland women's rugby, you know, game at Murrayfield, you know, the attendance there was something that we we can only dream of just now in in football.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you would say women's football is far more established than women's rugby currently.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, that took that obviously took some finance behind the marketing, but it got the results, you know.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: You saw the players at the side, you know, on the side of the trams, you know, their images everywhere, the game was advertised and lampposts everywhere.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it does these moments take big efforts.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I do think you know, if we make the big efforts, then the big turnouts come more and more often.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: We'll have more occasions like we had for the Jamaica game at Hamden.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's disappointing that that was seven years ago now.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's but it's actually bad that we have to keep referring back to that as the that that key point.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked we've talked about that loads.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think you'd now miss seven years ago, like you said.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think now, like um through through the time that's elapsed, you now go back and view that game as a chance lost.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: It feels as though it was an opportunity that got away from the SFA because that was your perfect moment to go and accelerate the growth of the of the women's game, and then instead it regressed, it went back the way.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we were we've covered games at at hand in international games and spoke that there's maybe fewer than 5,000 people in in attendance, and you're thinking, what does it take?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that the national team qualifying for major tournaments has an impact, it creates an energy and and an injection of so much enthusiasm that you can capitalise on, but that should have been a definitive moment for women's football.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I think now with time you you look at it and you think that was an opportunity that escaped through the grasp uh of the SFE and and there are questions that I still think that you could answer.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think positively hope you know, I think you can see the excitement Mel's brought, you know, I think um to the national team, the energy.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think if we and sometimes it does take that, even obviously England money, two euros is substantially helped them, but you know, if we do manage to get to a major tournament, you know, all that all that automatic hype comes more automatic because more more people are just naturally interested, uh huh, more people are talking about it, and then I would hope you know we kind of hold on to that opportunity a bit better than we did with 2019.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you think Mel, you know, someone who's left a young family and re-routed to come halfway across the world, it is utter conviction that she has in that post that you're entirely uh you're entirely into it, you know.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's she's she's given it absolutely everything.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: But we know how enthusiastic she is, she's super passionate about it, and I think that that probably has a hugely positive effect on players.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh and I also think she comes across as very straight in terms of direction and leadership and what you expect from players and in key moments.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think there's no doubt that going to Brazil would would definitely inject a whole new energy around a national team that I think they probably need, and also you've got a decade run-up now to potentially 20-35, you've got a long need in that you think there are so many things and so many opportunities again to go and do it the right the right way.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I just wonder if you sometimes find it frustrating that problems that you encountered all the way back in 90 1998 that you're kind of still feet that that are still there, and you're thinking this enormous passage of time, the cultural changes that have taken place I think 1999, 1998 did them they have mobile phones, no social media.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think how the world has changed and yet so much is actually still said the same?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I mean definitely, but I think it's um I think I think the challenges are the challenges are still there.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they're just different challenges.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think you know, I go back to now when I mentioned earlier about the volume of games.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, 30 years ago, you know, you probably didn't even have three cups you were competing for.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, 30 years ago there wasn't European football, you know, so we have come, we have come a long way, but there's still there's still a number of challenges, but I think I'm just this is why I'm so passionate about what I do, you know.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still as enthusiastic now as I was, you know, back in 1998.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Glasgow City is obviously notoriously, you know, it was female founded and it's female-led and it still is to this day.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: How big a part does that play?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not just success of the club, but just what the club is all about.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why is it so important that it remains that way all the way through?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's imperative.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, like everything starts with identity and everything starts with our DNA.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if you I think if you know who you are, um and everybody that's involved with your business knows who you are and what you stand for, that's much easier to articulate externally.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think fans become um more attached to you, everything becomes more meaningful.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's only probably the best way I I can describe it, and I think that is our that's our kind of USP, what makes us different.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um it what's it what it's what attracts people to us, it's probably what also maybe puts people off us.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I think you know our identity and what we stand for is everything, and I think every successful business, you know, needs that.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you know who you are, then you know your storytelling becomes more powerful, your fans become more engaged, your commercial partnerships become more authentic.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, definitely.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned it earlier, the European adventures of Glasgow City.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So 2015 into the quarter finals for the first time it was a historic moment, and I'm sure that was for you personally when you look back to where you've come from to that point.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Was it also logistically very difficult when you think about the finances of having to fund you know those European trips and all the things that come with it?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think the first time we ever got out of like 2011 was the first time we got out of the group stages of the kind of qualifications, and we actually had home and away matches, and we virtually got given this biggie for manual this size, and oh I mean, Cass and I nearly sunk under it.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like, because you know, obviously now we're used to licensing and certain standards, then we didn't have anything domestically, and suddenly everything had to be like just above board.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: You needed certificates for this and licenses for this, and oh, you know, so that was from my governance and ministry point of view, that that was a big burden.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, financially it was a challenge, but the challenges financially have always been there.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't really, you know, it doesn't really put me off, it doesn't stop us, you know, moving forward.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think you know, 2015, I think it when we got there, I didn't think we would ever get there again because at that point the realisation of actually how powerful and how big some clubs are and their wealth, you know, such as a PSG.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: But it was a you know, it was a beautiful moment.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually in the PSG stadium just last month for um uh course thing I was doing and you know I was in the changing rooms and I actually brought it all back because I said God we were in here you know we were in here 10 10 eleven years ago and you know they've not changed and but it was such an amazing experience because our players have never experienced a standard like that.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know I'd never been served champagne only in a boardroom it was a level above.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah bringing that to Glasgow.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's time for our player of the week sponsored by Nutmeg Magazine the home of brilliant football stories.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Check out the latest issue at nutmegmagazine.co.uk This week's player of the week is Celtic striker Shersher Noonan for her part in Celtics 32 extra time win over Glasgow City at Hamden on Saturday afternoon.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's a win that now sets up Grant Scotside for a Scottish Cup final against Rangers at the end of this one.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: That was our Nutmeg Magazine player of the week.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: For more great football writing and to order the latest issue visit nutmegmagazine co.uk Yeah I can imagine that would be quite the moment actually that it's you know almost validation if that's the right word for it of the the journey that you were on.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it was fantastic and actually it was also quite a big moment for PSG women at the time because they didn't get to play at the Park depans very often and they actually brought our game there so you know that was also a big for them as a club.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah that that was that was a nice day.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we think away from Europe and back home I think we've been playing at Peter Cell since permanently sort of since 2017 about is is it viable that Glasgow City could have their own stadium and a place to call their own where where is that in the terms of reality I guess?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's something we work on daily believe it or not so it's something we are very active in trying to constantly find um you know the right place for us.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's obviously not easy we've looked at different possibilities in recent years but they've you know they've just been outside the official boundary of Glasgow and we've felt it's not really us.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: We are a Glasgow club I think it's really important.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the reasons we've moved back from Broadwood and Airdray at the time was you know as much as they're the bigger easier stadiums to operate than Peters Hill they're not in Glasgow and I think I do think Peters Hill as much as it it's small and it's very challenging for us to put on a game it does deliver that good atmosphere that some of the big bigger stadiums you just don't have but yeah we are very active and and looking to find our own kind of home for training and potentially match days.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: I know there's talk about you know the opportunity maybe a lesser Hamden men turning in you know turned into a kind of women's specific stadium and I think I think that's something for you know those of us in the women's game you know to give that serious thought because I do think we need to think a bit different you know in terms of you know the costs and constraints we're not as limited as the men's game is with tribalism and I think you know our fans would be more than comfortable with sharing stadiums and you know the fact that if we could have you know a bespoke stadium for women and women and girls um that could be shared I think would be a very daft thing not to pursue.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's obviously been explored by a few teams and a few clubs has it gathered any real pace or any real momentum?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think not at the moment.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's well it's obviously been discussed at Scottish IV level you know it has obviously been mentioned to a few of us as teams I think they've got a lot of things to work out.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's clearly I would guess some hope for some funding with you know the potential of us to host major competitions here which might help but I think there's a few you know there's there's a number of Glasgow teams would like to have you know a women's purpose built stadium in our city um but irrespective of that being something that might come off might not we are very much actively looking for our own solution as well.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first time City hadn't had one silverware in 15 years sorry the rise of you've had time since then the rise of uh I suppose Celtic and Rangers women's team and those clubs injecting a little bit more money into that at that time was how how did that actually feel at that time because Glasgow City were obviously so used to being so dominant and then on the horizon is these other clubs and you're thinking are they are they going to put more money in where it how how does that work how does that work with us and did it actually was it a rethink or did you restrategise or something at that point?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: What was um yeah I mean to the extent that you know we saw and and achieved you know external investment so you know definitely from that point of view it that helped to turn us full-time professional you know because largely you you know you need to have challengers to look internally at your own model and look to continually improve so you know I think that's helped but it's even in recent years you know you know hearts and hips you know I think we've got an incredibly strong league I think it would be really naive for us to not to want to even have more teams that can compete.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it makes it a more exciting product it makes more players want to play here it makes more players want to stay here and so for me you know it's all a positive obviously Ranger himself being in the league wasn't you I mean I used to even play against them all those all those years ago but you know in terms of their investment then as I say followed by you know hearts and heads has been nothing nothing but absolutely brilliant for us as a club to help keep pushing us forward but just for the game in general I I don't think I don't think it would have been good for anyone you know for the women's game for it to have continued the way it was.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting because obviously I think the outside perception would have been that so many observers or casual observers maybe of women's football would have seen it as all that it's going to replicate the men's model.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you're going to have these teams then who go on and and dominate and become you know almost bully the rest of the league in terms of flexing a bit of muscle and that's not really happened.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: No it's not I mean I as to say we've pretty much got one of the most competitive you know little micro leagues in terms of you know the top half of the table in Europe and as I say there's there's not many leagues have that across you know any gender of football sport.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know most leagues are dominated by one or two teams so we are quite unique here in Scotland and I think it's really really healthy and as I see I you know I would love there to be even more teams part of it as well.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do you enjoy the spot?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: No I think we probably play one round too many just talking about the load on players um you know the constant three game weeks it's it's sometimes on the back of an international it's not easy you know obviously we have a player that's out just now you know ECL that start busy time international player we know there's not enough research yet on on women and the effects and injuries but you know without doubt it's you look in the split every time you look at the benches and teams are not you know they're they're they cannot you know feel they're always full strength team or they've not got a full strength bench so as much as it's exciting for me personally I probably think one round less although it creates this anomaly of home and away but that obviously exists in the men's game I think that would probably be slightly easier on on the players' bodies.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I looked this up obviously in preparation for this 91 minutes 28 seconds is when Lauren Davidson's going in at IROX to win the title well virtually the last Alex starts virtually the last kick of the ball um that day and we had Lauren was on the podcast earlier this season and she's she told us that a Celtic fan came up to her and I think it was just this year while she was on a Caribbean cruise with her mum to to tell her that uh she had ruined his weekend because of that because of that goal and it definitely didn't ruin your day or your weekend just in terms of pure emotion with all the years of Glasgow City and everything where does that rank for you that moment?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh probably one of the highest I think just because it was it was it was it was the most league it was the most exciting league campaign we'd had I think as a whole because three teams could have won it that day I think for it to be so dramatic for us to obviously win our rivals ground as well and just you know the nature of of how the game the games had gone up until that point and just you know everything that'd been 91 minutes yeah I don't think I don't think we'll have us will have had a few dramatic endings to the league to be fair but you know that that's definitely up there I think with one of my um you know most pleasing moments at Glasgow City without doubt.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think as well if everything around that game it was played at IROX in the expectation was it that Rangers I think Rangers might only have needed a point if memory salesman can no I think um I think they needed the Celtic result to be different as well um so I don't think our draw was I don't think they would have won it if I don't I think our draw wouldn't have been good enough if Celtic had won.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah the fact the game was moved to IRUX you know for that reason so you know we knew we were going to take we're up against it.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah it was it it it was nice.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember the night out after I do it was that was also very nice enjoyable but I think as well you know Leanne's very cognizant of bringing this up as I think you know she was guilty and probably I was guilty that we've we've probably not celebrated enough of our wins and that's probably just a human nature thing as as well.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes we're just constantly right on to the next and I think when you do great things it is good to take time out and and actually appreciate it and appreciate what you've done and enjoy it with your teammates and all the staff that have worked you know so blooming hard to make it happen.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah that year we definitely enjoyed it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever had that moment to sit back not just and reflect it it what you've done in in the the game and what you enjoyed but what you built and what you created?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: I see I'm not I'm not very good at that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Other people are quite good at sometimes asking me questions like that that does make me think about it.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: But no I'm I'm always looking forward and I probably am one of the worst for actually you know celebrating what we've done you know my mind's always on to transfer windows away and all this kind of stuff but um I do have moments and if I'm honest quite often it's like clear of the year nights and I see all these young women you know all trying to get around the first team for autographs and you know they're going up and winning things and you know they can see a pathway potentially to being one of these players and I think for me that's that's probably one of the most powerful things that we've delivered as a club and many other clubs you know do as well now.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's that's really enjoyable and then also the opportunities we've been able to afford you know for women on other positions are you know our two coaches are well Haley's still playing but you know Haley's our assistant you know player and you know Leanne's obviously our most decorated player legend in the game Sarah former player head of our academy you know we're a female's our lead sports scientist I think it's very important to me as well that we don't just create opportunities on the pitch but we create opportunities for women in careers you know off the pitch as well and that's you know that's really enjoyable.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of the things I love the most about you know was winning that title that year was that Leanne also became the first female head coach um you know to lift to lift that trophy and that was really powerful for me and particularly for someone who's given if I'm honest given their life you know to our club and actually in the change of name earlier gave you know Lee a presentation she hit 300 appearances um she actually overtaken me this year on appearances I'm now down to third um but you know someone like Lee Gibson as well who you know Lee's age is up you know shortlisted for player of the year you know she's also given her life to this club and I'm I'm so grateful for all these brilliant strong women that have joined you know Cass and I in this journey because you know the only reason I'm sat on this couch is because they you know they they did all that for us to be honest.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned uh Leanne obviously and you've got a a longstanding relationship with her and we know that she's highly decorated as a player an international player as well but when that job came up what were the other things that made the club think that she was right to take on that job at that time?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think um if you'd ever played with Leanne or worked with Leanne you would you knew she had a career in coaching.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm honest Leanne probably needed convinced don't know how because she'd been coaching everyone else throughout every game and she never played in so yeah when Leanne was coming up for retirement you know I'd approached her quite a bit before that about you know progressing into you know being a full-time assistant and that was a big decision for her because she obviously had another job um which she'd had you know all her life some active schools and and you know that's that's it's probably a scary thing to step out of not that she was in a comfort zone but you know you're leaving your old persona behind of being Leanne Ross the player to then step in to be an assistant and you know similarly she wasn't in that position too long when I was asking her to be head coach but you know I've certainly never had any doubts with her.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you know Leanne doesn't doubt herself but I I would say she'll probably hate me for saying this she is um I I don't think sometimes she knows how good she is you know I I I don't think she maybe sometimes see what everybody else sees and certainly you know I've seen a player who all her life is was destined to be you know a fantastic head coach and an absolute brilliant brilliant mind for football in terms of our club you know she just gives she just gives us everything you know this club's means everything to her and you know to have that in your head coach is you know is fantastic.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's not many clubs have that w when we were preparing for the podcast and we were chatting about the fact that Leanne was the first female title winner I was amazed it actually taken so long to to get to that point and now when you look down on you actually we're fairly well represented with with women in in such leadership roles and kiros.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think of the recent FIFA legislation the directive about uh having to have a a female coach and staff is that a positive or do you subscribe to the view that I know some people have said you know maybe it should just purely be on on the benefits and merits of who's the best with the joke?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say it's interesting because we debate this that the women's working group of European football clubs that I'm on.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd say over the piece it's positive.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's probably slightly easier to apply international it's going to come into club football as well but we need to look behind it all and there's very few pro-licensed female coaches and the reason there's very few pro-licensed female coaches is one it's extremely expensive to do the course and most people that go in to do it have probably been male professional players who've probably had a really good career and earning quite a lot of money so that financial thing's been easier or they're maybe at a club that's more than happy to pay for it it's very hard to get access to the course and they're in huge demand it's it's tough.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's um you know it's it's it's a lot of work over quite a lot of years.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at as I say the kind of the steps it takes to get there because there's also I strip that back it's very difficult for females to go on A licence very difficult for females to go on to B license.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's probably only taking the cohort of players now that have played at a high level who if I'm honest quite sadly are having the confidence to go into that because it's not easy to be the only female on these courses full of if I want it's a lot of you know male very high profile players.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to look as to who's available to go on to these is it accessible for women is there funding to behind to make it because the percentage of crow licence holders for females is very very small.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you I wouldn't want it to be something where um there's there's I don't want to say there's I I think it's I think at international level it will certainly make a difference and I see in in my own UEFA games I don't think it'll be a problem for most countries.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the most of the strong Western nations have strong you know they'll have female coaching staff.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's maybe I see more in some of the more developing UEFA nations it will be all male staff and that's probably they've got bigger problems with misogyny and all this kind of stuff.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be much more of a change for them and they're probably the ones who have even a poorer structure for getting females onto courses but I think that step change will certainly accelerate the development and I think it's going to be UEFA and fever's responsibility to help put the steps in place behind that that give more female access to these courses in the first place and then opportunities because you have to you have to be coaching at a decent level to take that step up you know you can't just quiz through your badges and then be taking an international team or taking a team in Europe.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got a lot of work to do behind it but I think it it possibly helps accelerate the growth and forces the as I say the steps in behind it to make it positive and make it happen.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now away from your job here at City you mentioned it there one of the other hats that you wear is uh UEFA delegate.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: You just tell us a wee bit about what what that entails how did you get into that what's what do you enjoy about it?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I'll get into it because SFA asked me uh they said they like to put me forward for it if I was interested so UEFA delegate is the it's basically the person it's the highest UEFA person in charge of a UEFA match.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: So you are there to observe and make sure everything goes in accordance with how you UEFA would want the game to go.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: So medical safety and security the game governance um laws of game anything um you are there to make sure it goes in accordance to how UEFA would expect the match to to take place really so um yeah so that's that's something I'm really grateful that I'm able to do um it's a really fortunate position that you know allows me to do quite a bit of travel and meet some fantastic fast fantastic people in the game but also as I've said have a good understanding of where the game is in some countries.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell immediately when I go into a year for meeting that I'm you know I'm putting on ahead of the match how serious the country takes women's football because one who's all there you know who's giving its full attention how good's an organisation been what level of stadium do they play in what what's the surface like you know some are an absolute you know a A5 plus and others you can see are just ticking a box you know there's no marketing there's no nothing behind the team it's very limited effort staff aren't bothered um and then you can see the the good side of it so um yeah it's it's a it's a very privileged position and it's something I I really enjoy doing.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever been a UF a delegate at a game where players that you know have been playing and they tried to give you give you a hug at the side of the pitch and you can't because last time that happened was uh I did Ireland um France and I had Katie McCabe and Russia Littlejohn come up to him and hug and I'm like get away guys I'm neutral get away so yeah it does happen yeah tell us a bit about your uh your recent Harvard business school exploits oh yeah um yeah so that was again fantastic to be able to do that um so that was the first of its kind um an executive leadership programme for football so that was all kind of top execs across the European game and got the opportunity to do the Harvard Business course which you know we spoke very little about football it's all business case related but you know having gone to university myself this was this was a different level you know the professors are different level they're so you know I used to fall asleep during lectures you know these these guys are just you know they're knee sliding they're high five in walls I mean they're all bonkers but so intellectual so that yeah that that was fantastic and again met some you know phenomenal people working working you know across the whole game in Europe.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Has that changed anything in terms of how you think you might lead?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah definitely uh I think it it has it's it makes you it's definitely made me think different um it's made me reflect on quite a lot of stuff in my style of leadership so no without a doubt I'd I'd say it's it was very beneficial and I think um you know for me personally I think it's definitely changed how how I'll do some certain things moving forward.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think just before we finish up just want to ask you about where we are at the moment in the season three games to go where are your where are your nerves in the title race do you believe that City can still do it?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah well I don't wear a I don't wear an Apple Watch and anything that measures anything heart rate related on a match for a reason.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: Listen I'm you know I've always got full belief in us um I think I think we've actually been playing really well you know I'm kind of tired of saying we're actually playing really well we're dominating matches and I'm walking away going how did we not win that?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: But it's football.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: No one has a divine right to win I will never think for a minute that you know that anybody has a an ex you know a a divine right to win any match you know ultimately the team that scores the most goals wins the game but I certainly can't fault you know the effort commitment you know from our players and staff and you know it's three games to go but for us it's one game you know we've got Hibbs on Sunday you know we'd really want to win that so that's all we can do is just go out and and give our best and at the moment I'm seeing players and staff that are certainly you know giving their all.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think it's going to be another manic end to the season fortunately or unfortunately for you a helicopter really and also hopefully hopefully Mel does use that enthusiasm and gets us to Brazil.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Alison and I have discussed starting a crowdfunder so that her and I can go.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well I'm already I'm already I'm definitely going so Scotland need to get there and speak another two books in book.com done you in the Airbnb or anything it was great it was a really great chat it was great to speak to you I'm sure everyone who listened to it really enjoyed it and get to know you a little bit better and see a little bit behind the curtain and just hear your ideas and stuff so thank you so much for joining us it's been great thank you to Alison as well and thank you to you for listening