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The Cubs’ offseason to-do list · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, Bellinger is opted out. Do you want the flexibility
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: for the young players? Okay, that's that's consideration. But we
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: have to they have to figure out what they're.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Doing a catcher.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Network's Cubs Podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Sahad Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney, where your Cubs
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: beat writers for the Athletic Patrick. It is the off season,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: as we started last week with the breakdown of Jed
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hoyer's posts or after season presser. Uh, the playoffs are happening.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: They're pretty exciting. I'm not sure how how locked in
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: you are on this, but I've had it on in
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the background at minimum for for the past week and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: it's it's been wild that the I mean started with
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: those those wild card games were crazy with with Pete
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Alonzo's sending the Brewers home. But obviously the Cubs, that's
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: their goal, right to get even though the Brewers aren't
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the team that go deep in the playoffs every year,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: they get their shot, right they they get they get
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: a chance in there. For the past whatever six of
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the last seven seasons, they've they've been doing it. So
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: that's that's the bare minimum for the Cubs expectations. And
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I guess right now the what they need to figure
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: out and what we're going.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: To talk about is how do they get there?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: What what are the priorities that they have to uh,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you know that they're going to organize this this winter,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: like what what are they looking at?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: What? How do they upgrade this team?
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I think the biggest decision, the first thing that that
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: kind of sets up the off season for them is
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: is Cody Bellinger.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: It's the decision he makes.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: If Bellinger opts in uh, it's not a disaster for
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: this front office that they'd be thrilled with that.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I'm sure maybe not thrilled.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would they even experienced the motion in the
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: front office like thrill just like too strong of a term.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: I think there would be a value recalculation more than
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: you know, the thrill.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Of opt out decisions.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: That's fair. There's there's definitely that that have to decide
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: what what is the value here? And and and what
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: did what do we just do? What how do we
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: go uh? How do we move going forward? I think
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: would be uh the way they look at it, you know,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I I think it's if if I were in their shoes.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I think the opt out would be the best thing, right.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, how often Jed Hoyer talk about financial flexibility
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: right like that that's something he and Carter loved to
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: talk about.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Uh and and it gives them more. I think.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: The sense I think we're both getting is that's the
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: way it's leaning, right and and like and I think,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you know, Jed kind of like he didn't say that,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: but he kept saying like we expected him to. If
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: he had a good season, he'd have a lot of options.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I think he has a lot of options, you know, like, yeah.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: No, I think Scott Boris that's his lean is towards
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: free agency in the open market, establishing his value. I
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: think on balance, it was a good season and the
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Cubs kind of look at those Boris you know, pillow
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: opt out contracts, as you know, if the player returned,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: it means something went wrong. And Bellinger finished the season
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: healthy and productive. His age versatility still line up, and
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: I think having that distance from his last two years
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: with the Dodgers is important as well. Scott has already
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: told us his Wrigly Farmer's Almanac theory in terms of
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Wriggly being a tough place to hit this year, And honestly,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: if Wriggly played normal, I think we already would have
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: known that he was going to opt out. As you wrote,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: Scott has a even by his standards, a very prominent
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: list of clients who are free agents right now, and
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: I think that will give Scott even more insight into
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: the market and kind of where to push those buttons
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: with different teams. So, you know, if we had to bet,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I think we would say he's gone. And I don't
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: think the Cubs are gonna be all that super interested
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: in a re engagement in terms of like being that
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: fallback team because they do have PCA and center Michael
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: Bush at first and cross your fingers, say a Suzuki
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: playing more right field or getting someone someone else emerging
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: and having say more as a DH but that on
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: you know, on a Bears victory Monday October seventh, I
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: think we'd say Bellinger is probably gone.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think we're on the same page there.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: And I was thinking you said it. I was like,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Boris is already he's already floated what he's going to like,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: how he's going to present Bellinger. Yeah, of course, And
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I'm and I'm very curious to hear the play on
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: words he has for us a month from now in
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: where it will be San Antonio.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: And then Uh, surely there will be some some fun.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it'll be if he'll go back
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: to the Farmer's Almanac. Maybe he will. Uh, there's gonna
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: be some weather related puns and Bellinger Uh and and
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: and you're right, Like the numbers were kind of jarring
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: when when Jed pointed him out and then and then
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I looked him up and confirmed them, I was like, Wow,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: that's so that's a pretty jarring difference between last season
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and this season at Wrigley Field. For Cody Bellinger, Uh,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I do think there's something when when we talk about
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: him opting out, it's about it's not just about filling
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: that spot, right, It's not just about filling that spot
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: with another bat. In my opinion, there's something to be said.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if this is the right route
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: for the Cubs, but there's something to be said for
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: having space for guys like Casey and al Contra to play.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: My problem with that is the situation that they're in
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: right now and the pressure there is to win. But
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I think there is value to finding a spot for
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the guys like that to play. It doesn't work as
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: well in a big market. I think if you're in
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Cleveland or Tampa Bay, that's exactly what you do. I
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: think it's harder to do here, especially considering the situation
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: that they're in. There's a lot of pressure to win.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: But it may like those are the types of things
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: that Cleveland's allowed to do without the media pressure and
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the market pressure. And then they have seasons like they
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: just had with a bunch of guys that majority of
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: us haven't heard of until midway through the season, where like,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: this guy's having a good season. Who are these six
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: relievers that nobody's ever heard of? But that's that was
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: just a thought that popped into my head.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: No, I'm glad you brought that up, because a player
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: actually mentioned.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: That to me towards the end of the season.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of thinking about Bellinger stuff, and it was like, hey,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: you know, you got to give Allen Casey some run
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: like that, Like like this was kind of an unsolicited,
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: unprompted Uh. You know, there's probably an element of fantasy
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: baseball playing GM with that too, but like Casey has
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: opened up a lot of eyes and is that left
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: handed thumper that you'd be looking for? And that's not
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: the first time I think we've heard people and this
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: is not just like you know, hub pr PD people
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: like pumping up their prospects, like there is I think
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: a sense throughout the game of like, oh, Owen Casey
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: has something there that you know if you're looking at
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: that group of or is like he should hit and
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: produce at the major league level. But you're right, like,
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: what are you going to do when it's this kind
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: of playoffs or bust year of like how disciplined are you?
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: How willing are you to kind of put your stake
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: in the future.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: When you have to win now?
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I and you know they can't. They can't
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: make decisions based on fan reaction. But can you imagine
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: if they lose Bellinger and the moves that they do
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: on offense are minimal and it's and it's with an
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: eye to make room for guys like Matt Shaw and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Owen Casey and Kevin ol Contre like it would it
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: would be insane, I don't. I mean, I think one
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: area that it's very obvious that we've been talking about
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: basically since the deadline is catcher, right, It's probably also
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: the hardest spot to upgrade, Yes, in a significant manner.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I think if you can do that right, if you
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: can significantly upgrade there and get someone like Logan o'happy
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: cal rally from from Seattle. I'm just throwing out names
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: of guys of teams that have young catchers that could
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: maybe hit the market, like trade market.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I think o'hapi is a very big long shot to
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: hit the market.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Cal rally, you.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Know, I don't know. I don't know what Seattle wants
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: to do. I don't know how they view I believe
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: it's Ford No, no, no, not Ford? Well there yeah,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: no Ford is there? Is there prospect catcher prospect? You know?
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Does it?
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Does Atlanta want to move move a catcher?
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: These are some of the ways you can look at
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: upgrading the spot. Finding a veteran. If you move a
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Maya in there, then you need to sign another veteran.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: All sorts of ideas and or like if you move
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: a Maya and you have a veteran, do you have
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: bia steros there? You know that they have they have
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: different way they can look at this. It's the benefit
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: of having a deep farm system. But I think that's
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the spot that we have to do. If we're looking
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: at offense, that's where you start saying, Okay, Bellinger is
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: opted out. Do you want the flexibility for the young players. Okay,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: that's a consideration, but they have to figure out what
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: they're doing at Catcher, Like that's a big area where
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you can't have the type of production that you had
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: in April, May and June.
• 10:28
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• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was interested to see it was just the
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: headline on LB trade rumors, but I guess already Moreno
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: gave an interview, I believe, to the Orange County newspaper,
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: the Registry, I believe, essentially saying that the Angels plan
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: to compete next year, that he was going to increase budget.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Now who knows, right, and like the Angels are very
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: quirky organization, I would say, But my gut eat off
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: of that headline was yeah, they're not probably not looking
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: to move Poppy. Obviously, Seattle has been in this very
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: weird place for a couple of years now. Looking at
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: that list of free agents, it's not like super compelling
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: and just knowing how this front office thinks. Even going
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: back to kind of Wilson Contreras. This free agency right
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: like capture is not an area where they want to
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: sink like long term dollars into any ways. But did
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: you create more of a lane for the cases of
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: your system than you still have to wield those dollars
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: that are coming back to you? And I would imagine
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: maybe you just go bigger in the rotation and maybe
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: you take more risks in the bullpen to get a
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: little more certainty on the front end.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: And you had a good piece up on the flag
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: this past weekend. Of all, they comes.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: Fast complaining about the bullpen like they're gonna do the
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: exact same thing. Yeah this offseason, now there is some
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: wiggle room within that. But what's kind of your read
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: on where they're going in the bullpen for twenty twenty five?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I you know, Jed did admit that
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: he kind of dropped the ball there, right, and you
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: know I I you can read that in so many
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: different ways. It all depends like where what's your starting point? Right?
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: If your starting point is like they missed out on
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: guys like Josh Hater or they need an established star
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: in the bullpen, then then you're going to hear that
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: as it's time to be aggressive and get get you know,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: big name bullpen arms. I think having talk to these
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: guys for over a decade now and understanding how Jed thinks,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: he that's just not I would be shocked if they
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: suddenly go in that direction, like there's no value there.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Uh, like my and.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: And I agree, Like there are things that I disagree
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: with with the way they go about things. And part
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: of it is I I think they you know, they
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: should be spending money in different areas on big names.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: This is not the area where you do that.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Like, I mean, I was just talking about the playoffs,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Like watch the playoffs. How many of these guys were
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: names that are coming out of Bullpens.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: How many of them?
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: And like it's I mean, Jeff Hoffman is on a
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: one year deal for like not very much money. Uh,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: he's going to get paid this winter, I think, but
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you you want to get that deal, not the get
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: paid deal. Right. That's that's what Jed Hoyer. That's what
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: THEO said. And Jed Hoyer feels the same way.
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: You know they spent on the back end of Brandon
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Morrow and spend instead of finding the Brandon Morrow the
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: next Brandon Morrow. I think that's and and they've done
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: a solid job of that. I think the key is
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: they finally have some young guys starting to pop up.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: They need them to stay healthy. They really needed the
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: starters to stay healthy to kind of see who filtered
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: out and who Like Ben Brown. I think we talk about, like,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: you know, these great young players that teams develop into
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: dominant closers, whether it's Emmanuel Classe or Devin Williams. I'm
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: probably forgetting a dozen, but Ben Brown's that type of
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: guy in my opinion. Yeah, this guy that you say like, okay,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: here's your dominant future closer. Right, he could start too,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: so I'm not ruling that out. I think it would
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: have been nice if he stayed healthy and you can
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: kind of figure out what direction he's going in twenty
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: twenty five. But that's still kind of up in the air,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and maybe because of you know, I don't know. I
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: don't know if injuries pushes him more into a starter
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: or a leever role. But we'll see what he is
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: going forward. But I really do believe he has if
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: he were to be a reliever, he'd be a force
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: out of the bullpen. Tommy how Toby I'm not sure
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: if I ended up including this quote, but Tommy Hobby
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: kind of said, sometimes we get a little too stuck
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: in roles and that can be a problem, and you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: have to kind of stay out of that mentality, especially
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: early in the season, because I mean, maybe they stuck
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: with al Zalai too long because of what he did
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the year before, and he should have just been reduced
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: to a smaller role earlier as he tried to figure
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: things out, or they gave him a rest or whatever
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: it was with his arm barking right like, things like that.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, injuries did impact this a
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: lot because you don't know what Luke Little is and
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: he did seem to be finding something near the middle
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: of the season there, right before his injury. But I
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: just I don't think they're going to spend big. I
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: do think they're going to add a little bit more
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: depth instead of getting spending nine million on Hector Narris type. Uh,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: maybe you spend maybe there's a bunch of minor league
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: signings and like four million dollars to like three four
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: million dollar deals or something like that. Right. I was
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: talking to a scout the other day who was talking
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: about how like, it's really hard for relievers to get paid,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: and we were I was like, what you almost want
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to be is like a failed starter and near the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: end of your contract, kind of like Jeff Hoffman, you
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: have this breakout season as a reliever, then you're gonna
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: get paid, right or is it Robert Stevenson with the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: with the who got paid by the Angels, Like that
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: type of stuff is how you get paid as a
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: non closing reliever. So so that they have to be creative,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: they have to continue to develop. Porter Hodge is a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: huge development for them. I think Orge Lopez is a
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: name we should continue to watch if he's healthy and
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: and it sounds like they had a good experience with him,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and he had a really good experience with the Cubs.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I'd continue to keep an eye on him. And there's
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: no way they're going to get whoever the Josh hater
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: of is this of this free agent market, but there
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: they do need to address it and just be aggressive
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: and thoughtful with how they do it. One other thing
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I believe by fangrafts war, only four of the top
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: twenty five relievers in baseball are on multi year deals
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: that pay them over five million dollars a year. Wow,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Like it's just it's just not the way teams do it. Like,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: no smart team is doing that. No smart team is
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: going out there. Like the Padres were a little aggressive
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: with their bullpen, right, but they also like and they
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: went out and got to guys to studs at the
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: deadline too, So I get it. I think going out
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: at the deadline when you're competing makes a lot of
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: sense to be aggressive and probably pay a little bit
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: more than you want to prospect wise, but that's when
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: you're competing, and that's at the middle of the seas,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: and it's just how things are done. I think giving
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: out five year deals to relievers is just not a
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: thing this this front office will do.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just looking at Hoffman's Baseball reference page and
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: I was like, where do I remember that name from?
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: And he was a guy like speaks to his pedigree
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: as a prospect. You know, he went ninth overall in
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: twenty fourteen. He was a name the Cubs at least
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: kicked around. Obviously not like super serious, but like that's
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: that's how much heat was around him when he was
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: coming out of East Carolina.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, East Carolina.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: So like that was kind of the the ceiling that
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: teams saw in him, and he went ninth overall and
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: bounced around and you know needed to.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Matt gilbur colleague has written a.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Lot about Hoffman and kind of how this happened, and
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: you know what his value has been. And I think
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: it'd be interesting to see who you know, we are
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: in the winter of Craig Council of like he was
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: supposed to be this bullpen whisper, and they Cubs did
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: figure it out, but as you wrote, it felt kind
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: of a lot like the year before of like, you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: took some time it they did not come through at
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: the biggest moments. Council's preservation methods I think was appreciated
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: by Pictures in terms of managing for the long haul.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: But you have basically his guy was the bullpen coach,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Darren Holmes and he's out. We got to imagine that
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: he has some strong ideas about either strength and conditioning
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: or that high performance group, as well as kind of
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: the the formulas the Cubs are using to identify some
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: of these guys of like, what what did the Brewers do?
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: What have the Cubs not done?
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Because there are a lot of guys who pass through
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: the Cubs organization, who played major roles for the Brewers
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: this year. So i'd imagine that's going to be part
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: of this of like who does Craig counsel trust. I mean,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: our understanding is quarter Hodge is someone that counsel like
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: saw in spring trainings.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: Like whoa who is this guy? Like where where's this been?
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: So I think that may help in terms of just
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: the evaluation skills. Councils talked a lot about process on
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: that end. He could also be We're not sure yet
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: right of like what sort of voice he's going to
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: be this offseason other than it's going to be heard,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Like is he going to be pushing for more certainty
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: and maybe different types of guys or is his like
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: love of process such that he generally sort of agrees
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: with them, right? I mean, like he's not necessarily thinking
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: they have to go huge in the bullpen, but they
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: could probably do more than they have in reason.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I you know, I kind of come in
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: like it in between on this, like I don't think
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you should. I don't think signing Josh Hater makes a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: ton of sense, Right, You've got to develop Josh Hater.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: You got to find a way to have those guys
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: in your system. And again, Josh Hater started as a starter, right,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Like a lot of these guys are starters that that
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: can't go five or six innings.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: So that's part of it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: And so signing a guy off the you know that
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: gets dfaid or non tendered or whatever, that is a
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: starter that you're like, I like his stuff, let's try
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: him as a reliever. That makes a ton of sense.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: But I also don't think it's it's ridiculous to sign
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: a guy to a two year deal. They have that
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: type of Yeah, they should be able to do that, right,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: a two year, sixteen million dollar deal, Like what is
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Matt Straman. I'm not sure what type of deal he has,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: but that type of deal is is like he's been
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: really valuable for the Phillies and they need a lefty.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: Like, it's so good he's signed an extension.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: I think it was maybe a two year deal something
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: like that, and they extended it during that term.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: That's how well it worked out.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean like these are the types of
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's crazy to go two years and
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: like sixteen right, if you find the right guy that
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: you like I think you need to there needs to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: be a balance.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: It's not all scrap heap guys.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I do agree with what you're saying there, Like a
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: council probably loves that in Milwaukee they were able to
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: do that and find a bunch of scrap heap guys,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: But they also have to do that out of necessity, right,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: or that's just the way it works there. The Cubs
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: can't like the whole benefit of going to the Cubs,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: as Greg Counsel, right, like the whole benefit of Andrew
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Friedman going from Tampa Bay to to La David Stearns
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: going from Milwaukee to the Mets. Like there's a reason
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: they do that, right, It's not just because these are
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: bigger jobs and they're getting paid a lot.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: It's because you can do different things.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And didn't Council say that like it in his interesting like,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: so like you should be able to do different things.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Now there may be some frustration that they don't, you know,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: maybe some frustration and I'm not saying we know that
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: with Counsel, but maybe perhaps all around, Like I think
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: they'd like to act like a top five market instead
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: of just a top ten at the bottom of the
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: top ten market, right right, And there's a big difference
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: in that, like probably like thirty forty million a year
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: and that that's, you know, the way this front office works.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of different players that you can do
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: different things with. So yeah, I do think there's a
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: mix there. You don't just go like searching for the
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: next secret bullpen arm, you know, and it's not Sometimes
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I feel like front offices can get too cute with this,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: you know, they can. It's like, how do we outsmart
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: everyone else by getting six league minimum guys and three
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: of them work out? You know, there's there's other ways
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: to do it. I like that, right. I like that
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: they've found Ryan Tapara and Chris Martin and you know,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: taking like it's smart to identify those guys, like, hey
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: we have Tommy Outoby is really good at identifying these things,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and he sees he thinks he can do this, this
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and this with these guys. Let's sign Chris Martin and
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: and they got Chris Martin paid, They got Bryan t parapay,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: They get these guys paid.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: They can continue to.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Do that, but also maybe give someone a one or
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: you know, a little bit more money makes sense. Maybe
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the narrow steel scares people off, even fans off on that,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: But I think you need to do a better job
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: identifying that those guys.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: I think it is also building towards what we've both
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: written of, like.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: You got to invest heavy in.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: The front of your rotation that we've talked about how
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: hard catching is and how volatile the bullpen is. They
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: have this cluster of young talent at the Triple A
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: level in terms of position players, like, something's gonna have
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: to give here, They're gonna have to pick a lane,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: They're gonna have to have some conviction, and to me,
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: the rotation is the clearest path to upgrading. There's good
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: class of free agent pitchers. The how to be pitching
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: it for the structure has been pretty good in this
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: area at identifying you know, the right pieces, whether it's
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: shoda or tie on, and so like, if you sign
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: a guy who slots into where like show DOA's a
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: third starter times of four starter, Like that's pretty good.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: And then there's that just kind of domino effect of
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: you have more guys available to pitch out of your bullpen.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: You have good depth at Triple A Iowa, you're pitching staff.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: The first guy to the last guy is just a
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: lot better, more connected, gives counsel a lot of options.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: So I think that when we go to the GM
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: meetings next month in San Antonio, I think we're gonna
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: be all over the starting pitching options, like who fits
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: their criteria. And that's the process that I'd imagine is
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: kind of it's not fully underway, It soon soon will be.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Certainly those early offseason moves or early offseason kind of
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: brainstorming has.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: Got to be happening now.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I one hundred percent agree there. The more
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: we listen to people talk and the more I just
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: kind of look at how they may have to build things.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: And that's part of why I said what I said
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: about the offense and the position players, because I expect
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: them to be pretty aggressive with starting pitching. It just
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: may make the most sense with and you know, you
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: can get creative with the trades.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Too there like it.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I haven't fully looked at guys that are on teams
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: that like to trade starters like pre Art, like at Tampa.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I'ven't fully looked at what Tampa's doing right, like they're
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: a team that's going to trade, like they probably have
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: a guy about to hit arm. That makes perfect sense
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: for the Cubs, right whatever that is. Teams like that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: try and take advantage of that. And this is where
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: if you're not going to spend the the you know,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: thirty million dollars a year type money, then at least
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: leverage your big market money in some fashion. And that's
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: taking advantage of the small market teams by taking their
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: expensive quote unquote players and you know, you have to
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: pay a hafty price, usually in prospect value. But that's
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: we have to see that happen this winter. Almost certainly
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: there will be at least one trade where fans are like,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: oh no, not that prospect being traded. But it's gonna happen.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: It has to happen at some point. You can't keep
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: all of these guys and expect to instantly get better.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes it works out, but that's that's usually
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: the small market teams that really cling to the prospects
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: and then play them all, you know, and then that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: have to trade some veterans to make that happen as well.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: It's just not what the Cubs are doing right now.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm curious to see that the starting pitcher
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: is going to be I agree, with you. We're gonna
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have to really dig in on that. You know.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I think Max Read is a name that that you
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: wrote about.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I think I think he makes sense and he's really interesting.
• 29:06
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: And and you're absolutely right you push jameson ty On
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: is your fourth starter entering next year. And I don't
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: care like whatever order it is, show to steal and
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: free agent whatever order that ends up being, whoever is
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: the one, two or three, like maybe they're all close
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: in value that that that's what you want to get to.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I think you do that. That should that that's probably
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: going to be our primary focus, what what we focus on,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and I think it may be like what what they're
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: really digging in on, and then you accomplish that that's
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: a really good, uh first step in getting this team,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: uh you know, you know, five more wins or whatever
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: else whatever you're trying to do uh for next season.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: So I think that's where on that that's that's what
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: we believe. I think that they've made that pretty clear
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: with some of the ways they've talked about it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: So that's my expectation there.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: And then you find a catcher and then whatever unique
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: trades they come up with smaller signings with the relievers,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: whether it's mid tier or just you know, things we
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: don't even notice until June. It's like, oh, this guy's awesome.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: How the hell do they get them? That type of
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: stuff always happens for most teams, So we'll see what
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: it is. I think starting pitching is going to be
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: really fascinating, and I wonder if it is one of
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: the first dominoes to fall.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: That's still two months away, though.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: It was just crazy to think we've got some time
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: before the action really starts. But about a month from
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: now is when you and I will be wrapping things
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: up in the in San Antonio, and I think that
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: will be the start of it all for us as
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: far as what direction they're going and how aggressive they're
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: going to be.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: We'll get a good feel start to get a good
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: feel for that.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: At least we don't have to worry about a new
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: manager popping up out of nowhere.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: Like nightmare flashbacks landing at the GM meetings after last year.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Wild. Welcome to a one year, certainly one year anniversary look.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Back on the Capito Higher because that was, yeah, an
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: out of nowhere one.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was wild? All right? Thanks so much for listening.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: We will come back at you later this week with
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: another episode This is north Side Territory. Make sure to subscribe,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: rate and a review.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Subscribe to the YouTube.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Channel please, that be really helpful, as well as subscribe
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: to The Athletic where Patrick and I will have you.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Covered all off season.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to everyone, We really appreciate it.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Take care,