Latest / The Parent Tap / Neurodiverse Meltdowns: Defend Your Sanity

Transcript

Neurodiverse Meltdowns: Defend Your Sanity · The Parent Tap

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was already so exhausted.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was like past my bedtime.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: And later my mother-in-law was like, How did you stay so calm?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what I would have done.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: How did you handle that so well?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, it had been a rough day.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like almost ready to cry, but I was like, but I showed up as the mom I wanted to be, even when I was exhausted.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Melissa Schultz, welcome to the show.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: For having me.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, thanks for being here.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you've worked in severe residential treatment centers, such a team of 75 behavioral health employees.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you're raising newer diverse kids of your own.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen meltdowns at the highest possible stakes.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: In my own house and in other houses.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when a parent is facing down a massive behavioral challenge at home, what is step one of your five-step guide framework?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And where do most of us completely fail when trying to execute it?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: So my specialty is helping parents of strong-willed, highly sensitive, and neurodiverse kids.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And neurodiverse means ADHD and autism fall into that umbrella, but it's just kids that process the world a little bit differently than like typical people.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're listening to this, whenever I say typical or normal, I'm doing air quotes because I'm not really that normal or typical.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I hear they're out there, those typical kids that are easy.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: They don't live in my house for sure.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And right now we're in an age of information overload.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: You search how to help my kids' tantrum, how to get my kid to sleep.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: You get a million different opinions, lots of it's conflicting.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Your mom swears this worked for you when you were an angel as a kid, right?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because you never did that.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like that gramnesia comes in.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Your friends swear by this one book that you try, but you implement it all at once and get overwhelmed and it doesn't work, and you go back to baseline.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So what I have created based on decades of behavioral research and my own professional experience of two decades working with kids with all the behaviors, and then my own lived experience as a mom of three kids that have high needs, I have created a five-step guide framework that actually helps no matter what the behavior is, no matter how old your kid is, no matter what the diagnosis is.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna go through the steps and I'm gonna tell you why this works when other things don't.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So when people talk to me and they know I'm a behavior expert, my kid's doing this.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do when my kid doesn't listen?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: We all wanna know what do I do after when my kid refuses to go to bed?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do after they refuse to brush their teeth?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is a step.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do when they don't listen?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: But in my framework, that's the last step.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we all want to know.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's all we think we need is just how to respond.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we go wrong because there's actually a lot of things that need to come first.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So step one is gathering data.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna pick one behavior, just one thing to work on at a time.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna get a clear definition of it and we're actually gonna start tracking it, writing it down.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: When does it happen?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Really, exactly what is it?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we just try to work on all the things at once.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: We get super overwhelmed, we go back to the beginning, or we don't even have a clear picture of what we're working on.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so even if what we're doing is working, we don't notice because we don't remember.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: We don't really notice progress.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Our brains just notice when things get worse.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we start by picking one thing and getting clear on what we're doing.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the easiest step.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Step two, we work on our own triggers, it's understanding your own triggers.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so even if you have the perfect response to your kid's behavior, if you are feeling really frustrated, really exhausted, really angry, right?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Stay calm is not a you don't know how to stay calm.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're not gonna be able to implement or stay consistent with that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Not because you're a bad parent, but because your nervous system's out of control, or just because that behavior is triggering big things in you.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So step two is we just clean up all of the triggers.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: We work, we do nervous system work.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: We really figure out what about it is bothering you, and I can give you some mindset shifts, perspective shifts about how we can think about that a little bit differently.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that way, like I like to say, like they always say the kids know how to push your buttons, and they do.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: But what we want to do is actually figure out what is the string connecting that behavior with my buttons.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And how do I just cut that string so they can do it all they want, and I'm like genuinely calm and okay.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not faking it, not like white knuckling.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not mad.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like genuinely, it doesn't bother me anymore.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's step two.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: That is one thing people miss and why a lot of things fail.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Step three is we're gonna figure out why my kid is doing that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: All behavior is a form of communication.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're not doing it to be on purpose, not doing it to bother you.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it might feel like that, but they're not.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing it because right now, that's the best way they know how to communicate something they need.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we can be sad, that's the best way they know how, but that's what they got.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's the best they got right now.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so until we understand why they're doing it, we we can't change that behavior.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Often if you Google, like, how do I help, how do I stop my kid from tantruming?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's just like a common one.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get 20 different responses from Google or Chat GPT.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they're not all gonna work for your kid because kids tantrum for different reasons in different moments and different ages and different stages.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So this is not a cookie cutter thing.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know why your kid is tantruming in that moment.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's step three.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna deeply understand why they're doing it.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Step four, now we are going to figure out this is deterring the problem behavior.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna figure out how we can just make that behavior less likely to occur.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe when it happens, the intensity is less.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna look at what skills our kid is missing.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do I want them to behave?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And how do I teach them those skills?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do I teach them how to have a smoother bedtime?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do I teach them how to tolerate frustration or to ask for help instead of having a tantrum on the floor?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna intentionally figure out what skills they're missing and how to teach them.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we're also just gonna look at different environmental shifts that we can make that could make everything so much easier.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last step, now we are gonna come up with a plan of how to respond to the challenging behaviors when it happens again, because it will happen again in a way where we are like not accidentally reinforcing it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna really focus on praising and reinforcing and paying them out with whatever their communication form is for all the great things they're doing all the time that we don't really notice because we're so fixated on the problem behavior.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's super comprehensive, but it also is it's simplistic in itself because it is broken down into five stops that are easy to follow.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: For me, a lot of the time is the why.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And like I have two toddlers, and honestly, I had to tap out last night.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And like my wife, I was like 20 minutes after they got home from school, I was like, I need a break.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because they both were like throwing tantrums for separate reasons.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, the why was probably different.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure my one-year-old wanted milk and to be held, and we were bringing in groceries, so that wasn't possible.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And my five-year-old or my almost five-year-old was I think she wanted to go outside and play, and we weren't giving her attention, so like completely different reasons, but yeah, and it's sometimes it's tough because I'm like, why are you guys being like this?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want that's what I want to scream.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you why are you guys listening to me?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm such the cool parent.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Let you guys do what you want, but yeah, you they're not doing it on purpose.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, they need something in that moment.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a great thing to remember when you're going through those stages because it's tough, it's tough to keep it cool.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this makes it actually easier because you're just genuinely okay, you're crying, and that's I don't have to fix it.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know why you're upset, I know what to do.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you have that confidence, that understanding, that compassion for them in the moment, it just makes it easier.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes if they're upset and then now we're upset about them being upset, now they're upset that we're upset that they're upset, and now we're all just getting more and more upset and escalating each other.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, like instead, we can learn to create calm in our body in those situations, and like our calm is contagious for the whole family, even with multiple toddlers.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love the five-step guide process.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's great, and yeah, it like totally can relate because that exactly thing happened yesterday.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: My son was upset, so my daughter was upset, so my wife is upset, so I was upset, and then it's like totally everyone's night is ruined.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just turned five on Friday, so we had a super fun special day for him.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I let him stay out late and no, I know better because he turns into a gremlin when he sees stuff.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's my one who's very sensitive, but I was like, it's his birthday, maybe he's grown out of it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: He, my mother-in-law was visiting and watching all of this happen, of course, and he had the biggest meltdown ever.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was already so exhausted.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was like past my bedtime.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And my mother-in-law was like, How did you stay so calm?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what I would have done.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: How did you handle that so well?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, it had been a rough time.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like almost ready to cry, but I was like, but I showed up as the mom I wanted to be, even when I was exhausted.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And my five-year-old that had the most special, they had a meltdown because I knew why he was doing it.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I knew it wasn't personal, and I knew just how to handle it, even when your mother-in-law is there watching.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And my mother-in-law is super nice and supportive, but yeah.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: My my daughter's the same way.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: If she's overtired, it's a nightmare.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're just done.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we pay for it if people will all the time be like, oh, just stay out late, family parties or whatnot.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like, no, we don't know what it's like on the back end.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not worth it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's definitely not worth it.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Not only for that night, but it seems like a morning will also pay for it.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like she wakes up cranky and then she's like, it throws off her whole rhythm.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, okay, so out of the five steps you just mentioned, which one is the absolute hardest for high-performing type A parents to stand for or to stick to?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I usually step one or step two, probably mostly step two, because that's when we're working on our own issues.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like we most high, high achieving parents know that they have an influence, but that's the hardest one.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And in general, it's easy just to focus on fixing everyone else and we just want to take action.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: It can be harder to slow down and do that internal work, but that's everything.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, if we burn ourselves out by just focusing on all the action steps without pausing, because even the right plan won't work if you are not regulated and calm during the behavior.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: That seems like almost an unnecessary step you have to take is to be calm in that moment.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's if you're not, then I don't know, myself personally, like everything throws me off if I'm not calm.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: So and most high achieving parents are like, I can just stay calm.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna try harder.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: They just really try to use willpower.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm gonna, and then they beat themselves up at night because they yelled again and they vow to try harder, and it just has nothing to do with willpower and it or being a good parent or not.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: These are really good parents.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's just specific things that we have to do to release some of our triggers, and we all have them.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, totally.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: That is me to a T.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna get mad today, and then 10 minutes into the day, yeah, open the door.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, ah, are you guys kidding me?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or you have a patient for like the first 10 times and the 11th time, you're like, that's it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you'll help count on it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: It runs out too quickly.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: It does wane real fast.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk about so you have the master's degree, you have the clinical training, you have all that experience, but you have your own newer diverse kids, and so it's different, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Dealing with your own kids in that space.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's one piece of clinical theory you learned in school that completely isn't really applicable in your own house that you found?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think like the main thing I realized from starting as a clinician and then becoming a mom of kids that I was serving without knowing.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, most people assume that I started the professional things after becoming a mom of these kids, and it didn't.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: I started out as the professional.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think, especially like medical insurance companies that I've worked with, it's just very focused on like the plan.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just tell them what to do, put them in a class, put them in a training, and tell them what to do.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that usually is more of the cookie-cutter strategy.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's wrong.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: But what's often the missing piece and why I sold that other company and I do this now is like the support parents need to be able to be consistent with the plan.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have to talk about parents' triggers.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: We have to talk about parents' capacity.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can I would, for the last model that I was working under through insurance, I would show up at a parent's house or someone like me with my level of education, hand like a 15-page beautiful behavior plan of exactly the something that would totally work, individualized to that kid of how to respond to some like intense aggressive behaviors.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd have about 20 minutes to talk to them about it, and I'd say, see you in a month, because I'm out of hours for you.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not because I wanted to, but that was how that system is currently set up for families.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And very few of those families were able to sit down, read a whole 15-page plan, figure out what it meant, and then stick with it in all those hard moments without so much more support.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I realized that as my as a parent myself, when now I'm going into meetings with professionals as a professional, being handed like this one page beautiful Canva and graphic of just do these things eight times a day, but just 10 minutes.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, have a binder of all the things that I should do for 10 minutes a day.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it adds up to 30 hours a day that I should do one-on-one with my kid.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm like really passionate about that support piece as well.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have to learn how to grow our capacity as parents, and it's very possible, but that's what's missing.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know I love that advice and like breaking it down about how sometimes, yeah, it just feels, oh, just do this, just do that, or here's the binder.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Real pay real parents don't have that much time in the day to improve stuff.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it needs to be a quick approach, it needs to be something that's very adaptable, scalable, and something that we can stay consistent with too.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think if it's too much, it's almost like one of the gems.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So many people give up, and I'm one of those.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: But exactly if you're doing too much at once, like it just seems unmanageable sometimes.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like it needs to be broken down.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I love how you did that for people.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you obviously you have a corporate training background, and how did you like separate that from managing your own kids without feeling like you're just because you talk about it all day, right?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you come home and you deal with it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you separate those two like versions of yourself?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think probably the biggest thing I have taken away with all of my professional experience is that like I know how much more there is snow that even I don't know.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So honestly, I'm the first one to go hire an expert in whatever my kid is struggling with because I know how long trial and error takes.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know the pain of trial and error.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know that although I have dedicated the last 20 years of my life to this, there's other people that have specialized more in what they're doing.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's actually my takeaway.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna go find an expert in this that can teach me all the things that I don't know.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's just every kid is just so different.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it is hard to apply all of it to our own kids.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, even like for things like potty training, professionally, I've potty trained hundreds of kids like through work.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it came to potty training, my oldest, I like had to talk to someone.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like we were literally on a case, I was supervising her, I was telling her the potty training program to run for this client.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to go back to that same person.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, Can you tell me how to potty train my own kid?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just I have this weird block about it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's definitely some differences too where we just all need support.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so refreshing to hear because sometimes it feels like you know, when you're on Google land or just on the internet in general, like everyone has it figured out.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when you it's what am I doing wrong?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's just it's very refreshing and to be like that authentic and vulnerable and admit that sometimes like even the experts don't exactly know how to handle certain certain situations, and you need another expert, right?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: You need to outsource that because it's different when you're dealing with your own kids sometimes.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's just yeah, we had the hardest time potty training our daughters too, and it's I know we tried every like we tried the plethora of stuff like on the internet, and yeah, we had some success here and there, but it's like ultimately we had to figure it out on our own.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's the you know, trial and error approach, I suppose, parents have to take sometimes with their kids.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so that's a lot of pain and suffering could come from that trial and error, like for everyone.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's also like the turmoil with the relationship.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you experienced this, but with my spouse, it's like when you're going through those hardships at home with the kids and there's stress and you can't potty train them or the meltdowns like you said earlier.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you're thrown off, then it's like they're thrown off, and then you're like getting in each other's space and annoyed with each other for no reason.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just so many of my clients come to me and they're like, We had a really happy marriage, and then we had kids, and now we're like fighting all the time.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um my husband actually, we like met at work, so we have very similar backgrounds and thankfully like very similar parenting approaches.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we're usually, but yes, we all have our bad moments, but I find with so many families, it's like not only are we having this tension and power struggles with our kids constantly, but then our partner in life that we have chosen, we're having so much conflicts about the behavior.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just like our home is no longer a safe, happy place.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just everyone is it's just tension and fighting.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not how anyone picture it.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be like that, even if you have a kid with tough behaviors.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's a cascading effect.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you're doing this because it does, I think the uh long-term effect is it does help save relationships.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you can get these down, yeah, but there's so many ramifications and implications, I should say, uh if you do get down your system.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so this this could definitely be like relationship, the like salvaging relationships, perhaps for people.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So this is awesome.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you mind if we end with some lightning round questions?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: I usually just do like your first uh what comes to your mind first and we'll kind of go after it.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And but there's something that I'm like, really?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me more?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, maybe I will.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, first one, what is the single biggest mistake a parent makes in the first 10 seconds of a kid's meltdown?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, in the first 10 seconds, it's not taking a deep breath and like focusing on calming themselves down.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: A deep breath doesn't work for everything, but it's usually just going right into the mental rant that they've already that they have every time instead of taking a second to calm themselves.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is it like counting to three?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard that before.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it can be.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like whatever technique you can use.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's like your mindset going into it, like even beforehand.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was joking with a client earlier, because what I've taught her, and she it's working is like pessimistic optimism, where I just I have three hard kids.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I just imagine like that every day we're gonna have tons of meltdowns.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna we're gonna go to the park and everyone's gonna melt down, and and I can handle it, and that'll be okay.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And here's what I'll do.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we go to the park and no one has a meltdown, or I only have one huge one, I'm like, oh my gosh, what a great day.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, even like that mindset going in, often we're like, oh, my kids are gonna be so great on vacation because I spent all this money on it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's wait, they're not sleepy, and I gave them lots of sugar, and they're like, it's a nightmare.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of it is like that, just like expecting all the normal kid behaviors.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we just have like unrealistic expectations, and then we are like suffering because we just didn't plan it well.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just described me in a nutshell.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I go into it hoping that oh, they got this down, and then I come away.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: What did I do to myself?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I set myself up for failure with that mindset.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think yeah, having a realistic mindset, expectations, alignment would all be something that we need to do.
• 19:52
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: All right, awesome.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is one phrase parents need to permanently delete from their vocabulary during an argument with a strong-willed child child?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, a phrase.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think they just need to delete the arguments if that's possible.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, I'm like gonna talk around and question a little bit.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if there's a phrase to delete general, just like arguing with your strong-willed child, you already lost.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like instead learning how to give maybe options or have a system set up so they're not arguing with you, they're just like you're there to support them with their emotions of the decision versus you guys fighting over it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it like telling if I tell my wife to calm down, for instance, I'm just pouring gasoline on the fire.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a word or a phrase or something that is just terrible and we should never do, or just don't fight with strong-willed children?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just don't fight with strong-willed children because you've already lost if you've given them that struggle.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, calm down is not helpful for any human.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're okay when someone is in genuine distress can also be really dismissive.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: You could say if you're going to be okay, we'll be okay.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if someone is crying and you're like, you're okay, like they aren't.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not like telling them they're okay.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're actually just, I don't really care how you feel, how I want you to feel.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Totally makes a lot of sense when you explain it that way.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Last question.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So timeouts, are they an effective behavioral reset or are they an outdated trap?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is such a good question.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I so timeout is a general term that people use a lot of different ways.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're talking about it as like this punishing thing where we're like doing it and they're gonna think about data and it's gonna last a long time and they have to sit quietly the whole time and you're gonna extend it, and it's this whole shameful process.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, absolutely not, it doesn't work.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how anyone learns, is by heaping shame or making them feel bad for mistakes.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk to some of my clients, depending on their kid, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: If this is appropriate based on the why, based on the way their kid learns, based on how their kid regulates.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Some kids benefit from what I actually call a reset, where we will, after a certain amount of clear warnings, not very many, maybe go into a different area and do a reset.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't being successful here, so now we're gonna go over here.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: But we're not, it's not a shame, it's not a big deal.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: We do it quickly.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then as soon as the time is up, and I usually make it really short, then we can go back and try again.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we're just like, it's done.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like we learned, we had a quick little just reset to give you some time, and now we're gonna go try again.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't recommend that for all kids.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: It really depends on like your kids' learning style, and that's part of that guide process is to figure out if that is.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then some kids want need you to be there to calm down.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Some kids do better if you're not there with them.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's like really understanding what your kid is trying to communicate and what is reinforcing it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is really essential when you're picking any kind of consequence strategy.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a great refresher.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think even for I'm thinking more than parents, but teachers, because I know that as a former teacher, timeouts are a thing.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that you send the kid to the corner in their little timeout chair, waiting for the class.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's just something you do when you have 30 kids in a classroom and you have one behavioral problem.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: But you know behavioral incident where it's like you you're trying to separate them maybe from the rest of the class in that moment.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's maybe you're limited, you're handcuffed on options.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, coming from that setting as a teacher or as a former teacher, and now you know a parent with two kids, like timeouts.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't use it a lot, but sometimes I'll throw it out there and I'm like, maybe we'll try this.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I I like the behavioral reset, I like the framework of that better.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, the it takes away the shaming, it takes away some of the outdated stuff that maybe was passed on to from our parents.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like time, like a traditional timeout was like, you're locked in your room, you have no TV, you have no food.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're basically it's but you're basically a prisoner until you repent your sins.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my kids would say, yes, they've had timeouts, but it's not the we just happen to call them timeouts, but it's like very different.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And each one of them had a very different experience, criteria, setup because I have three very different personalities and they all needed something different.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very customized to what the kid wants and what will help them learn.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, Melissa, I just want to say thank you for promising your SOP today.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You absolutely delivered the blueprint on the guide framework.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: For parents listening and need to overhaul their household discipline immediately.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where can they find you?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Where can they find your coaching, your resources, everything you have to offer us beyond this interview?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I am on Facebook and Instagram at confidently momin.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to connect with you there.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm posting lots of little quick things and conversations.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can check out my website, which is melissaschultz.com.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: The spelling's a little weird.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So check the show notes.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And on there, I have a free guide, how to get kids to listen, which is what everyone wants.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Get that.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: You get my best tips, and it'll put you on my email list.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have different events pretty much every month to help moms and dads of strong-willed, highly sensitive, and neurodiverse kids.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Most of them are free.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you get that guide, you'll get on my email list.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be in my world and you'll get to hear about lots of other free opportunities to put this into practice in your family.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds great.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I forgot to mention, which is like, why did I mention this?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter is neurodivert.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's definitely not wheelhouse.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that we need to hear from the experts.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: We need resources.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: We need sometimes you need to think outside of your own brains because we've we fall into the same traps of like, why is this happening?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why are our kids acting up?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we not able to get a better handle on our household sometimes?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: But like you just described, there's a lot more into it than we think sometimes.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so having this guide framework that you've really spelled out and explained to us and having those additional resources out there, it's it sounds like some of them are even free.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's awesome.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I'm definitely gonna check it out.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, my viewers will check it out.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'll put your descriptions or you're not your descriptions, but I'll put all your information in the description and I'll put you.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: I always feature the guests on the website, and then we I put this out on all the major you know, trying to earn intern here.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I'm excited.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love doing this, I love hearing from other people.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: One of the main things I was dealing with was isolation.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: As a dad, as a parent.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I work remotely.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I work literally work right here all day.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I don't really connect with people.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so having this connection with other parents, other experts, other people going through similar situations is it's just reassuring that I'm not completely failing and not completely letting my kids down.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like over and over, it's I'm gonna handle this better, I'm gonna handle this better, and I don't.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know a really good coach that could help you with that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you do let no, just kidding.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Melissa Schultz, okay?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Especially for parents of neurodivergent or parents that have kids with bigger behaviors, right?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: We do tend to get more isolated.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: We do look at everyone else's pictures on Facebook or other kids at the park and no one else is having these issues.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it tends to push us even farther away when what we need is community and support more than anything.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not the only one that is experiencing that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: But that also, like, I talk to parents all day back to back, all these different parents that are struggling with it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I see how common it is, and I love to bring those people together and just so many great parents out there trying their best.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: We all just need some support.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think just hearing that I'm not alone and there's so many people dealing with struggles of just trying to be a good parent.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess yeah, like really agonizing over being a good parent's a good thing.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: But but also just yeah, I just feel like there's a piece missing to the whole puzzle.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like this is potentially the missing piece for a lot of people, and something I'm gonna definitely hopefully that'll be the piece I need too, because so many times I'm just like, oh, I don't know what to do in this situation.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: My wife feels the same way, and you're definitely needed.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for what you do for this community and for this interview.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is awesome.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to have you back sometime when you got other stuff too.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's more than