Latest / Hormone Heroes with Dr. Kelly Hopkins / Progesterone Resistance Explained: How Metabolic Inflammation Disrupts Female Hormones with Dr. Jeffrey Brown

Transcript

Progesterone Resistance Explained: How Metabolic Inflammation Disrupts Female Hormones with Dr. Jeffrey Brown · Hormone Heroes with Dr. Kelly Hopkins

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Hormone B-Roads, where I share testimonials from real people who have experienced bioidentical hormone therapy.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Men and women share the symptoms they have experienced and the difference proper hormone replacement has made.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly Hopkins, and I have been in the functional medicine space for over 30 years, with a focus on hormones for 20 years.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Please keep in mind this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Please consult with your physician or practitioner for medical advice.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get started with today's guest.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the podcast.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm very excited to have Dr.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Jeffrey Brown with us.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: He is a family physician that has been trained and certified by A4M in functional medicine, and he specializes in women's health.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: He's originally from Minneapolis, Minnesota, and he's had a wonderful journey through his medical education through New York and lived in Las Vegas to finish up his training.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And now he resides in Florida.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Dr.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Brown.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love being here.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about your journey from family medicine over into specializing into women's health.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be a physician ever since I was, you know, in elementary school.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember that.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: My family talks about it, you know, they remember that.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I remember in school learning how to memorize the bones of the body, and I found it fascinating.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been fascinated with the body and health.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought being a physician was, you know, what I was going to do.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you go through the rigors of training with medical school and residency.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And my first job was I moved to Las Vegas because I got tired of the cold in New York.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, grew up in Minneapolis, you know, then moved in New York.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember one morning scraping my windshield, man, 4 30 in the morning.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, I'm not doing this anymore.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this was I, it was old, tired.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I said, we're gonna find someplace warm when I graduate.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we settled in Las Vegas.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Very different, yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Very different, right?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Very different from where I grew up and then where I lived for a while in my training days.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked at an urgent care primary care setting, you know, because I love the hands-on stuff.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm a DO, so I like procedures.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And after a while, it didn't take very long, you know, probably within six months, you know, I felt I wasn't enjoying what I was doing.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and for the most part, it was because I felt like I wasn't making a difference.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, pretty much, you know, all day long, I was just refilling scripts, you know, and some of these people, you know, it could be 10, 15 scripts, you know, these people were, you know, getting every month or two.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't feel like I was really making a difference.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt like it's kind of like a similar medicine.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we try to get them in and out, you know, you get 10 minutes with a patient.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it was kind of frustrating.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is not what I signed up for.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't believe like this is all this hard work that we put in, this is the best that we could do, you know, and patients would come in whatever symptoms they had, and then we refer them to different specialists, and then we see them back, and you know, now they're on a different medication, or or maybe they had a procedure for something.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I but I didn't really see significant changes in people's lives.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt like we were just kind of keeping people, you know, status quo, right?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: The status quo.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Band aids, yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Bandic.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of band-aid.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how it was.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in a you know, relatively big clinic, and you know, everybody had this kind of the same story, you know, doing the same things.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: You show up at work and you and then you, you know, you go home.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, okay, I know there's a better way.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it took a few years, you know, to get there, but eventually I, you know, I got there.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I found in search after my patients because they eventually ended up having my own practice.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And patients started asking about uh biodental hormones at that time.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is back in 2007.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oprah, Suzanne Summers was talking about biodenical hormones.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so patients inquired about that, and I had had heard of it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started investigating, and I was lucky enough to be invited to a conference by one of the compound pharmacies in the community.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what opened my eyes to you know the hormone therapy and you know what we can do.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then later on, I went to another conference and learned about functional medicine with A4M, and it blew my mind.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: It just was like that was what I was waiting for.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like this was it.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a way of healing, a holistic approach.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then that was started my journey, you know, back in 2008.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So let's back up just one second.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about the education you got on hormones in med school.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is it very little?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: You really have to search it out.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: There is none.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: There is no education.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was family medicine.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I went through my OBGYN residency.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I delivered a bunch of babies.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we went through all the clinic training, but there is never any talk about, you know, hormones, specifically biodegle hormones.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't even think we nobody talked about that, you know, back then.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we trained on birth control, you know, as far as treating or managing or symptom control of different conditions that's still going on today, as you know.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, that was it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that's all we got, you know, as far as our training back then.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we hear so much.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: People say, why doesn't my doctor tell me about these hormones?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lack of it being a focus in med school.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you really do have to search out further education.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So describe to our listeners what A4M is.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: American Academy of Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's a big deal.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big deal.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, IFM is another big one as well, you know, that really train us on the holistic approach, you know, the systematic approach to you know addressing chronic conditions.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so once you exposed yourself to that post-grad education and certification, it was eye-opening and you just wanted to really make a difference, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And change people's health.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's funny when I started back then and I saw people from you know other places in the country as well.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as you learn, you know, this way of approaching the body, you know, holistically, you know, as a family dog, you know, you start incorporating, you know, these therapies and you see the impact that it has on your patients.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you see the outcomes.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: You see, like, wow, okay, you know, this is really working here.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're changing lives here.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're getting people off medications, things that they've been dealing with for so long.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, you get to a point where you're like, I can't practice conventional medicine anymore.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because in my opinion, that'd be malpractice.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you have these skills and knowledge now, you just can't go back.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you just can't go back to the way, you know, we used to do.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's been growing over the years.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So now when I go to these conferences, it's, you know, it's probably double, triple in size from you know, back in 2008.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because once you see it work, this is why people went to medical school.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is why people went to natural fact, like, you know, whatever health modality you went into is to help people.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so when when you see this, it's just you can't go back.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't go back.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's growing.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because once you truly understand this and you implement it and you see how it was impacting lives, you know, you can't go back.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, I was bored certified, you know, at one point came out, you know, did that for you know, probably you know, 15 years or so.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh however we had to do it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last time I decided not to, you know, recertify because I'm not really practicing, you know, traditional family medicine anymore.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that band-aid approach, you know, to medicine, unfortunately.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Your practice mostly focuses on women and their hormones.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So what made you go that direction?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've always enjoyed puzzles and games and you know the challenges.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I found that in the conventional world, especially looking at it, a lot of clinicians, and I even think to this day, didn't want to, you know, see women because they're more complicated.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they didn't really have a lot of answers.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And once I got certified and learned and continued to utilize the skills that I've learned working with women, and I saw that it was working, I said, this is not as complicated or as challenging as it once was.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I actually enjoyed, you know, working with because I loved seeing the transformation.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: My staff used to complain about certain people that would come in.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they'd be miserable, they would, you know, yell at them.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, the staff just unfortunately, you know, took the brunt of certain people's, what's the word I want to use?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just they just weren't in a good place, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they took it out on the stop.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden they saw the transformation take place.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, wow, so-and-so is really nice now.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, they seem happier now.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, this is what I was telling you.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: When people don't feel well, you know, sometimes, you know, that's just part of their life, and they're just pushing through.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's what I think what made me focus on it more because I felt like that was a population that really wasn't being addressed properly.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Too many women are, you know, not heard, you know, they're frustrated.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, I wanted to change that.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I made a mission.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to change the way medicine is practiced, specifically in that population.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's typical for women physicians to understand what women patients are going through, but it's really special that you took an interest and wanted to dive into, you know, what makes women you know, we get labeled crazy and erratic and you know, all the things.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really nice that you as a male physician took that interest in that.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me more about what you like to specialize in your practice, like what sort of situations that women are in that you like to focus on.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as an osteopath, one of the reasons why I went to Oscar School is because I wanted to learn the hands-on approach, you know, the manual therapy, because I've always been interested in helping pain.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to the menstrual cycle, you know, the painful periods, the autoimmune disorders where they have, you know, joint pain, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, you know, the pain, it's hard to describe it for certain people.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it impacts your life.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something that you can measure.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we can measure a lot of things in medicine, but if someone says you're in pain, well, how do you measure that?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so it can really impact people's lives because people can sometimes dismiss them.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it's like, okay, they're complaining of this, complaining of that, and you know, that there's, you know, what can you do about that, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Chronic pain is number one reason people go to the ER or see their positions because of pain, you know, but it can't really measure it or objectively.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, helping pain is something that I enjoy doing.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the reasons why, you know, went to Oscar School for the hands-on approach.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I wanted to learn um regenerative medicine so I can help with chronic pain, muscle skeletal-wise, nerve pain-wise.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's always been my focus, is pain because it's so debilitating.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and that really can impact people's lives, the quality of life.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: My mission is always help to restore the quality of life.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I know pain is one of those things that can destroy people's quality of life.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So talk to us about how you are available virtually, and we'll cover your website and all that good stuff in a second.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: But tell us how you approach a patient virtually and what someone could expect from your consultation, your labs, that kind of thing.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the first you want to get a sense of, you know, what's going on with the patient.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as a functional doc, you know, our paperwork is extensive.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I always tell people, you know, it's going to take you a while.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something you can quickly do in, you know, a few minutes, because we want to get to know you.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: We want to know, you know, how you were born, where you were your breastfed, you know, what was the environment like going in, what's going on now, your nutrition.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that gives you, you know, a better sense of who you are, because of course our approaches are always individualized.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so then from there, then we look at more specialty tests.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now we still do, you know, traditional testing, but in the virtual sense, a lot of people have those tests.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go a little bit deeper with some of the hormones.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they'll be doing more saliva testing, urinary testing, looking at the metabolites of how their hormones are being utilized in the body.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we'll do comprehensive stool analysis because that's where everything starts is in the gut, you know, so we can talk about that all day long.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's really important tests when it especially when it comes to, I shouldn't say especially too, but hormones, you know, autoimmune, you know, because inflammation is there in the gut.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: The immune system, you know, starts there in the gut.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you really want to get a good analysis of, you know, your gut health.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so those are my primary focuses in the beginning is really looking at, because that's what I focus on is hormones, of course, is looking at the gut, looking at the hormones, you know, how they're being utilized.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there, you know, we can talk about, you know, strategies.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Once we have that information based on their lifestyle, what's going on, and then the results from their tests, you know, that we can put some strategies in place, you know, so they can move forward.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about some specific conditions.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say a woman's having extremely painful, heavy periods.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: What's your advice to her?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the first thing is don't accept it as normal.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first thing I tell them.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, that's not normal.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: It may be common, you know, but it's not normal.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is something that can be rectified, that that's not something that you have to live with.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's first and foremost.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've seen too many people who just accepted that that's just kind of how it is.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're a woman, you have painful periods, you know, doctors saying, well, you know, either take pain medication, suck it up, it is what it is.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And nope, that's not true.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so just because somebody else someone else says that to you, other physicians, and it could be multiple physicians, because we know that especially with someone who has endometriosis ordenomyiosis, it could be seven, 10 plus years before you know they get a diagnosis, you know, up their condition.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: So just because someone says that they can't fix it or there's nothing else to be done, that doesn't mean that it's true.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the first thing is a belief and just that the mindset has to be right.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then secondly, then it's just a matter of you know, putting some strategies into place, you know, as far as to help reduce inflammation, helping to reduce the stress.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, stress plays a huge role in our lives when it comes to our health.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that, you know, again, you could talk about that, you know, all day long as well.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: But that's something that I spend a lot of time on because people don't really recognize how stress is impacting their lives.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have patients who are very diligent about their health.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they exercise regularly, they have a healthy diet, you know, they eat clean and you know, they sit on feel well.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the pieces that they're missing is okay, you're not managing your stress.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're not working on the parasympathetic system.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're in fight or flight, you know, all day long, and that will have an impact from head to toe.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and people don't realize that, you know.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we discussed, okay, these strategies are necessary.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: They need to do every single day, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Consistency is important, not once in a while, that can help to get us out of that fight or flight, which is going to stimulate more pain, right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Information and get into more we call rest and digest.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's where that would start with someone who's having very painful periods who say, look, let's start there.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: What are we doing there?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then also if you look at the your diet in the kitchen, you know, what are we eating?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I like to encourage, you know, spices.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of good data out there on ginger, cinnamon, turmeric, you know, adding pepper, you know, these anti-inflammatory spices that, you know, can help reduce pain, inflammation, and just consuming them on a daily basis, you know, can have significant impact, you know, on their quality of life.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And also just the taste of the food.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it says, hey, once you start experimenting and utilizing those spices more, you'll see that you may enjoy your cooking even more.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: So do you find that most women that are having real heavy periods are in an estrogen dominant situation?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit more about that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Estrogen dominance.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you can say two things.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can say estrogen dominance or you can say progesterone deficiency or progesterone resistance, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they may have normal levels of estrogen, but because they may be in a progesterone resistant state or deficiency state, then that's going to the, you know, the estrogen dominant state.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so we know the estrogen dominance can lead to the ovarian cysts, it can lead to the endometriosis, the painful periods, the fibrocystic breast tissue, the painful breast tissue, and a lot of symptoms of PMS of being estrogen dominant or right, progesterone deficiency or progesterone resistance, you know.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it could be a combination of any of those things.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: But in any way, it's just an imbalance with the hormones, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: The imbalance of the sex hormones, you know, whatever way that is.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so even though your progesterone levels may be normal, but if your cells are not recognizing it or responding accordingly because it could have a progesterone resistance, you know, which you know is common in women with who has endometriosis, you know.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to really look at the whole picture when it comes to that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just can't take labs at face value, you have to look at the whole you know picture here.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And most women after the age of 35 or so don't ovulate regularly.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we know we get a big surge of progesterone after ovulation.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the reasons that we become estrogen dominant.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Also, the stress piece, like you mentioned, that stress pathway.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: The adrenals are stress glands and they produce some progesterone as well.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then do you work with testosterone for women as well?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: That is, I'm not gonna say my favorite hormone, but I guess it's my favorite hormone because you know, a lot of women think, isn't that for me?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as is the first, you know, question, you know, that they'll have, especially in my earlier days when I started utilizing it.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now I think women are starting to, you know, hear more about it and the importance of it.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, testosterone, it helps with pain because it's an anti-inflammatory.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: It works on the immune system as well.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I found earlier on, and I don't even think I saw it in the literature, just kind of saw it clinically with women that had just pain in general, you know, whether it's fibromyalgia pain or just kind of unexplained pain, you know, they got better with testosterone therapy.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, look at this.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is interesting.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, later on, you know, I started seeing it more in the literature, reading about it, but oh, okay, now we're seeing, you know, the role that testosterone, you know, has here, you know, it can help to balance out, you know, estrogen effects.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so really utilizing testosterone in autoimmune patients, my endometriosis patients, because all of them, you know, because endometriosis and autoimmune, you know, they're like brother and sister, right?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Endometriosis is not an autoimmune disorder, but man, it's this, you know, they're very related, closely related.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so testosterone goes a long way in helping women with that because it works on the you know immune system and it helps to lower inflammation.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a huge proponent of testosterone, you know, when it comes to women's health.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And because a lot of women, as you know, when they have PMS, if they have painful periods, they have, you know, whatever that may be, you know, the first treatment is birth control, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first thing their gynecologists or to go to the primary is going to give them.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that birth control is gonna lower testosterone, you know, down the road.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So pretty much everybody I see, you know, has lower testosterone.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we gotta put them on it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of your favorite ways to use testosterone?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do injections or creams or I do it all.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: You do it all.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: We do it all.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously in virtually we can't do pellets, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's virtual.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: So then you're right, we have creams.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's a pharmacy out here that does a sublingual liposomal spray is new technology.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, we'll use that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, as long as we get it in, yeah, that's the way that to go.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not as judicious with the injections, you know, because I find that, you know, that way tends to create more problems.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because if obviously if they overdose it, I've seen that too often, you know.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I shy away from that a little bit because you know, women don't want the side effects of too much testosterone.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I've seen with the shots, just because of the peaks and values of that, you know, can create some issues.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I do have a few people, you know, utilizing the injections.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you mentioned side effects of too much testosterone.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: What would that look like?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the biggest ones that I've seen is the oily skin, which can lead to the acne.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can see the hair loss, and I've seen some horror pictures, you know, heard horror stories, you know, the hair falling out, they they break out like they are, you know, a teenager.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't want that, you know.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the biggest ones that you see, you know, initially.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, we're not talking about people abusing them because if you abuse it, then you know, I've had patients who, you know, at the gym, you know, utilizing their testosterone, so their voice changes, right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: It lowers, and that's not coming back.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you may see enlarged clitoris, you know, you can give it too much testosterone.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, seen that a couple of times.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so those are the things, you know, we don't want that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we want homes to be optimized where you feel good, you know, healthy sex drive.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you want nice skin, right?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: As a woman, you know, nice hair.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be losing your hair.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why you gotta be careful when you're utilizing, you know, testosterone.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: We find that there's a few women in our clinics that will convert testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, which is DHT, and that is what causes the hair loss piece of that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: We try to counteract that with the use of finasteride, but like you said, it's it's just best to not overdo testosterone in the first place because then you're fighting symptoms till the levels go down.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you support women in perimenopause, which is that 10 to 15 years prior to menopause.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: You also support women through menopause, I'm sure.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Which phase?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Perimenopause?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's do perimenopause first.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's the one that's more challenging, right?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because everything is fluctuating, you know, so much.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: With that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where the stress piece really comes in because we know that once progesterone starts, you know, lowering because of the ovulation, it's that's that's the big piece that's missing, is more of the progesterone.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people think it's all about estrogen.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you talk about perimenopause, going to menopause.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, it's the progesterone that falls first because you know, we get the progesterone from the ovulation.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Once ovulation slows, you know, that's really the first domino to fall, is really the progesterone.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so we can really get progesterone levels up, you know, women are going to transition, you know, very nicely, you know, during that time.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And again, stress component is really important because the adrenal glands secrete testosterone, you know, they do pick up the slack for secreting, you know, estrogen as well, progesterone.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're living in a fight or flight all the time, you know, that impacts, you know, the adrenal glands even more.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you've talked about the weight gain that happens, you know, during that time, um, fatigue, the brain fog, you know, all those things.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, really gotta manage the stress.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: We gotta really, you know, look at the hormones, but that hormone production can also be impacted negatively by the amount of stress that you have.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so really managing stress is also, you know, key during that time.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a very stressful time for women, you know, as they go through because they don't recognize themselves anymore.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: They don't recognize their bodies anymore.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're like, wait, what's what's going on here?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I haven't changed anything, and all of a sudden now the weight's coming on.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can't remember anything.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like what's going on?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm snapping at people for no reason, my spouse or kids.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is not like me.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like looking at myself from the outside, like what's what's going on here?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so supporting is key.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's very rude how it happens actually.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're just rocking along doing what you've always done, and then you know, the body just starts to change.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell my daughter all the time, it's the fight becomes bigger, you know, every decade.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to do so much more to maintain status quo or try to get better physically, mentally, you know, all the things.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking at a few of your testimonials, and everyone is so incredibly impressed by you and grateful to you.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I would suggest that people go to hormonehealth with dr brown.com and it's hormone health with w-i-t-h dr b-o-w-n dot com.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it just, you know, over and over through all these testimonials, it's about how deeply thankful they are and the changes you brought into their life and the profound impact you've had on their life.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And just the fact that you get to the root cause of what was going on is a big deal.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, Dr.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, we know that you are located in Florida, but you are really moving towards completely virtual care, correct?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I wanted to be able to, like I said before, help as many women as possible.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's an underserved population, you know.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's sad because, you know, as long as I've been doing it, like I told you before, it's like it's not as hard, you know, as they let it out to be.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I understand that in the conventional model, you know, the drug companies, big pharma, basically controls education and controls everything.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And these treatments require a holistic approach, it's not a drug approach, right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about drug and surgery.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime you have chronic or complex disorders, you know, you have to have a holistic approach.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so for that reason, that's why I think that you know a lot of women are not getting the help they need because you know in the conventional world, it's just about a pill.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the birth control is not the root cause, you know, antidepressants, not a root cause, pain medication is not root cause, you know, it's just symptom management that may help with some aspects of it, but you know, it's not addressing the whole picture.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I think a lot of physicians, you know, in that world, maybe just feel I don't want to use the word useless or helpless, but you can get frustrated when you really can't help somebody.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's when you end up referring out, or you know, maybe you lash out at a patient because I've heard a lot of unkind stories from patients, you know, going to different doctors, you're like, wow, they said that for real?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, wow, like certain things is this amazed me with what you say to a patient.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe that someone would say certain things, but you know, maybe it's just the you know the frustration or you know, they just look at patients as okay, maybe you're making it up or exaggerating.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes they look at women like, okay, you're just being overly dramatic, you know, about the pain that you're having.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's like, yeah, no, this is real.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and unfortunately, like I say, in the conventional model, you're not going to get the answers that you're looking for because there's not a one solution.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a holistic approach.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's multiple steps that need to take place, you know, in order to get the answers that you're looking for.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when you have a patient that you've helped and she asks you if you could treat her husband, do you treat some men as well?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: In my local clinics, yes, I've I've I've treated men too, because again, you know, you know, they do have autoimmune disorders as well, you know, even though it's only 20%, right?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: 80% are women, they do have low testosterone, so they'll have, you know, symptoms as well.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they'll have gastrointestinal issues, you know.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, oh yes, I definitely help men, but I was the majority of my practice is women.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, women go to the doctors more often than men anyway.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I so I just think by that alone, that's why I think I have a lot more women than men.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Dr.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff or Jeffrey.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Jeffrey were either way.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think anyone that could reach out to you virtually, you would give them wonderful care.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And mention your website for us one more time.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hormonehealth with dr brown dot com.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's real easy to get a hold of him.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: You just fill out a short little form with an email address, then that's how you'll hear from Dr.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Brown and his team.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I just appreciate you being on and sharing what you know and your expertise.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I just appreciate you.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's Kelly.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for all that you do.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's fantastic.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me on your show.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um keep up the great work.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, sir.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to Hormone Heroes.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Take a moment to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: While you are there, help us spread the word by leaving a rating and a review.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you would like to share your bioidentical hormone story or need help finding a physician in your area, please email us at drkelly at hormoneheroes.org.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's D-R-K-E-L-L-Y at H O R M O N E H E R O E S dot org.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: We want you to be a hormone hero.