Latest / Harder Than Life / 147: Encouragement as a Currency with Jordan Montgomery

Transcript

147: Encouragement as a Currency with Jordan Montgomery · Harder Than Life

• 0:07
  I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:23
  Welcome back to the Heart of the Life podcast. Today's guest is Jordan Montgomery, and he is a USA Today bestselling author, renowned performance coach, and keynote speaker trusted by top executives, sales teams, professional athletes, and entrepreneurs. He has shared the stage with leaders like John Maxwell, Deion Sanders, Ed Milet, and Angela Duckworth. Welcome to the show, my friend. Thanks for having me, Kelly. Appreciate you, man. Grateful for your friendship. Yeah.
• 0:51
  And it's like, hey, today we just get to hang out. And instead of just you and I, we'll have a few more friends with us, which is fun. Well, I'm going to start off with very unique with you because I read your book. I read it when I was in Cabo in like literally three days. It is page turner. And I'm going to spoil it for some people just because I was floored when I heard the change in your life and it started
• 1:20
  Let me backpedal a little bit and let me reset the scene for everybody. I walk into an event with Ed Milet, John Gordon, John Maxwell, and I see this beautiful human being smiling with nothing but love and energy
• 1:35
  exuding out of him and this gigantic smile and it was you i'd had no clue who you were walked over and said this is somebody that's going to be in my life forever you were kind you were caring and i could just feel the love out of you
• 1:51
  Nothing happens by accident. This was intentional. So before we hit record, you said, we're going to do a lot together. We are absolutely going to get together. And I read this book, and I got to know you more. And we're going to dive deep into this. But I want to start with your wife, Ashley, and your kids, Audrey, Claire, Olivia, and McCoy. Because you dedicate your book to them. So tell me about your beautiful family and your back story.
• 2:18
  Love my family with everything I've got. I love that we're starting there. You know, for me, faith and family are top two priorities in life. And my wife actually runs the business. I just kind of run my mouth, Kelly. That's the ongoing joke in our house. We're business partners, but we're also married. And we have four children. Our oldest just turned 14. And our youngest is two. So we've got a bit of a spread. And, you know, John Maxwell said this to me years ago. He said, you know, Jordan, one of my goals is to be respected most.
• 2:44
  by people who know me the best. And that's always just sort of stuck with me. In this life and in this sort of world and business that you're in, Kelly, and that I'm in, the business of leading and teaching and just the personal development business, I think sometimes it could be a business that pulls you to the edge
• 3:00
  like to the periphery of life. And so you end up having some of these superficial relationships or you have these people maybe that know Kelly Siegel or feel like they know me because maybe they've read a book or heard me speak, but they don't really know me. And a problem with that is we can start to live for the praise of people that we barely know. And it's been said, if you live for their praise, you'll die by their criticism. And so that was sort of my life story. I'll take you back to when I was 27 years old.
• 3:25
  This is 2015. And I had an event that just rocked my life. And you know this event. It's in the book. But for our listeners, I got a call from my managing partner at the time. So I'm working for this big Fortune 100 financial services firm. And things are just going gangbusters, Kelly. Like we're growing like crazy. We took an office from a handful of people to...
• 3:47
  50 plus, and I'm flying all over the country speaking and teaching and leading. And I've got my clients that I'm working with. And I'm a small town Iowa guy, right? I'm just from small town, Timbuktu, middle of nowhere, countryside. But I fall in love with this business. And part of it was because I loved the work. I was doing work that mattered. It was honorable work, but I realized I had no limit, no cap. And so I would just spend 14 hour days. I'd work and I'd win all the awards and the income and the revenue's growing. And so my ego's growing with it. And
• 4:16
  And all of a sudden I get this call April 1st, 2015. My supervisor says, Jordan, I need to speak with you. And I'm naive. Okay, so I'm overexposed, underdeveloped. My influence was way ahead of my character, which is a bad thing. If your influence is ahead of your character, you're in trouble. I knew my goals. I didn't know my values. And if you know your goals and you don't know your values, your goals can actually take you to a place that you never intended to go.
• 4:45
  So this is me, addicted to the business, living for the praise of people. Boss calls, Jordan, I need to speak with you. Not today, boss. Not today. You know, I got stuff to do. I got clients to see. He says, Jordan, this is pretty important. It's the kind of meeting where you clear your calendar. I'm thinking, man, somebody on my team must have really made a mistake. So Kelly, again, I'm naive. So I go to this meeting. I'll never forget what he said. He said, Jordan, you haven't been malicious or intentional, but you've been careless and casual. When you're casual, you create casualties. Today, you are the casualty.
• 5:16
  And just like that, my whole life changed. There was a person on my team who took a test. I didn't report it. I was way behind in my case notes, a few small undocumented bonuses, but it was just a lot of little stuff that added up. And my boss was basically saying, I don't trust your character, so you can't work here.
• 5:30
  Problem with that was I was involved in a bunch of real estate deals. They weren't structured properly. All the deals go sideways. I lose my job, lose all my money. The company sends out a company-wide email to everybody with my name on it because my involvement in the company. So my reputation gets damaged. My money is lost. My job is no more. And for a 27-year-old guy, I thought all of his identity and his work and his achievement just rocked me from the inside out. So I go through this two-year desert season. It was actually in that season, Kelly, as you know, that I met my now wife. And I think God was sort of preparing me for bigger things.
• 6:00
  Maybe my greatest leadership opportunity. Sometimes God's got to do something in you before he can do something with you. And what I didn't know is on the other side of that really difficult day was the greatest blessing of my life, which is my family. So I appreciate you asking about the home team. I'm not going to let you have the hook that easy. And if I press a boundary and you don't want to talk about it, we can always edit it out. But I know you and I know because I'm asking out of love.
• 6:29
  Because I've been where I'm about to ask you. In the book, it seemed to be like you took a – you said you took a test that you didn't. Is that – did I read that right? I had a person on my team, yeah, who took a test for me. Yes. Okay. And I didn't do the right thing, which is you report that. Even though it was an internal – so it's not like the Series 7 exam, right? This is an internal kind of 25-question, multiple choice. Right.
• 6:56
  But that's a character thing, you know? Absolutely. And that's where I was getting to because – so you had – it's well documented in the book that your father is your rock. How did you break the news to him and how did that feel –
• 7:10
  being a man of faith and a man of high, high character, because I know I've gotten to know you and I know this. And the only reason I'm digging here is because there's somebody listening on the other end of this that's incongruent with their life, maybe out of alignment with God or source or whatever they want to call it. And they see this amazing human who I will, I would lay my life on the line for you because I know who you are as a, as a, as a person. And.
• 7:37
  And you learned from that lesson. So I want them to learn from this. Can you tell me how it felt when you went to your dad? Now, I'll say this. I sold drugs in college. And I had to go to my family and say, yeah, I was set up. Until I owned it fully, I couldn't heal. So that's kind of what I want to talk about. Because somebody's on the other end doing something that's not becoming of them. And here's a man killing it that did the same thing. So walk us through that.
• 8:07
  Well, so many, especially men, Kelly, live with just shame and guilt. You know, all people. So many people are paralyzed by shame and guilt. And, you know, I think America's expert on shame right now is Brene Brown. And she has this incredible quote. She says, when you deny the story, it defines you. When you own the story, you can write a brand new ending.
• 8:31
  And so with my dad, there had to be, I was forced to own it and talk about what had happened. And then you got to go to the people closest to you and say, hey, I made a mistake. I screwed up. And that was really hard. I remember my dad was incredibly gracious and compassionate. And I mean, I was 27. So I didn't have a family. I wasn't married. I was just a young single guy. And in some small ways, Kelly, I think my dad...
• 8:58
  I don't think my dad was happy it happened, but my dad knew that this was going to be a transformative time in my life where I would dig into my faith and I might draw closer to my family. Because when you lay down the thing that's on the periphery, the stuff at the center means more and gets better.
• 9:16
  And so I think, you know, my dad is more concerned with my character than he is my circumstance. And I think my dad was saying, hey, man, this is going to be a defining period in your life. God's going to use this. And I'm excited to see who you become in the process. That was kind of my dad's tone in that moment.
• 9:34
  The moral of the story is that that's a kick in the butt and here you are and I've got to see you 11 years later and you're just crushing life. And I just wanted people to know that you don't lose when you learn and you learned. And I would like to a couple of the notes from the book, Art of Encouragement. It's over here if you're watching on YouTube, guys.
• 9:54
  Absolute page turner. Guys, go out and read this, order it. He pours his heart out in this. And it's just beautiful. I love that. Like I said, I read it in three days. But you said, people need to be loved more than they need advice. And you said, be impactful over impressive. And I got to tell you, you embody that, my friend. You absolutely destroy those. And I love you for it.
• 10:17
  Well, I think it's, you know, it's so often it works against how we're wired. You know, like our wiring, our ego, our pride isn't leading with impact. It's leading with the desire to impress people, you know. And I think when we, you know, desire to impress people,
• 10:36
  You know, we we fall short of what God's called us to. We don't impact people the same way. I think you connect to people through your weaknesses, people impressed by your strength. So I'm just I'm learning even in my journey. You know, Kelly, I got to do a better job of sharing my weakness, even up front, like even when people aren't asking, it's like.
• 10:53
  If I'm speaking, I just say, hey, I'm a 2.5 GPA from the University of Iowa. I'm from Timbuktu, small town. I was a 17 on my ACT. I think 15 is guessing. I'm two points smarter than a monkey. I'm going to keep things really simple today. The only reason I would do that is because success is a terrible separator. It separates you from people. If you...
• 11:14
  aren't aware of that and you leave with the resume or you talk about all the great people you work with or the books that you've written or the things that you've accomplished, people don't feel connected to you. They feel distant from you. They might be impressed by you. They don't feel connected to you. And connection is where all the good things happen. So, yes, I love what you shared there about impactful versus impressive. And then it is true, man, like all of us, I want love more than I want advice, especially when the chips are down. I'm
• 11:43
  I don't necessarily need somebody to give me all the instruction in that moment. I just need somebody to put their arm around me, hug me, love on me. Even in this last 10 minutes of the podcast, you've been incredibly caring and encouraging and thoughtful. And that's what I'm going to remember. I'm not going to remember all the great things that we talked about, the strategy shared. It's like, man, I'm going to remember how Kelly made me feel. I think Maya Angelou summed it up best. She said, people won't always remember what you did or what you said, but they will remember the way that you made them feel. So yes, people need love more than they need advice.
• 12:12
  I was, I've been watching you because I knew we were coming on the podcast and I am admiring your vulnerability in that the only advice I'd give you is dig into it a little deeper.
• 12:24
  I got to laugh. I'm an IT guy at heart. So when I heard what you did, I would laugh. I would go, dude, how do you not know that you could see where the VPN was? It's like, it's like somebody sending text messages and thinking that they can't be recovered. And the same thing with, here's a newsflash. You guys think Snapchat disappears? It doesn't. So having said that,
• 12:46
  Dig into that vulnerability deeper because it does resonate with you. Because you do come across as this amazing goody two-shoes country boy, family, God-fearing dude.
• 12:58
  But I, being in your presence, I could look in your eye and feel the impact and the love because I couldn't even get a question out to you before you rapid fire wanted to know about me. And I didn't even know you were part of the event. I thought you were just an attendee. You pour so much into everybody. Do the world a favor and share that because we've all, all made a mistake.
• 13:24
  I appreciate that. I received that feedback. And I think part of it is when I went through that experience, it really wrecked me, but it also wrecked a lot of other people. So there were some other people involved in that that lost their job and their family dynamics were changed and shifted. And so I carried that for, I mean, so much of my shame and guilt was really over that. It was the team that I led that was impacted. And then even just...
• 13:46
  People were impacted by my example or the lack thereof. And so I appreciate that, man. And I think when you go one-on-one with somebody, there's certain settings where you can go a little deeper on some of those details. But I don't disagree that the more vulnerable you can be about things that have happened, the more powerful you become. The scripture says God's power is revealed. Yeah.
• 14:08
  not in your strength, but in your weakness. And so I want to give glory to God. And these are the details and the facts. And yeah, man, I got a long way to go and I still do. You're a beautiful human being. I love you. If encouragement were a currency, how would you teach leaders to spend it wisely?
• 14:24
  Oh, well, first off, you got to do it authentically. I think we have a real authenticity issue in our country, Kelly. You know, we say things like add a baby, way to go. You're the best. You're the man. You know, we just live in a superficial world. Social media makes it harder every single day. So if you're going to encourage people, just make sure that you're authentic. How do you know if somebody's authentic? They're specific. So, you know, I could say to you, Kelly, hey, Kelly, you're a great person.
• 14:54
  communicator. Or I could say, Kelly, you're a great relationship builder. And I could just kind of leave it there. And you've probably heard that a thousand times over in your life. Or I could say, hey, Kelly, you're a great relationship builder. One of the things I've noticed about what you do is you take time to really understand the nuance and details of somebody's life. Like even just for this podcast, I've noticed you picked up the book, you read the full book. It's very clear to me that you've done that.
• 15:20
  You posted it a couple of times on social media. You tagged me in it. You were prepared. You were ready. You studied. I mean, we spend so much time studying things and products and process. Oftentimes, we forget to study people. You want to be a great encourager, study people. Be authentic. Share details and be specific. So that would be one. I think another one that often gets overlooked is the power of prioritizing the two over the do. So again, we praise the results. I can look at you and be like, oh, Kelly. Yeah.
• 15:46
  You've been in the gym, my man. Like you're in the gym. And look at that. I mean, you got like you just muscles all over the place, right? There's popping out of you. Dude, way to go. Taking care of your health. Come on. Like, okay, that's one way I could encourage you. The problem is that's really about what you do. I'm not necessarily tapping into who you are. Okay, if I want to go a step deeper with that, I might say, Kelly, one of the things that I admire about you is your unbelievable discipline.
• 16:14
  You're just a committed, disciplined dude. I think God's put that in you. And I think you've worked really, really hard to stay committed to the things that are important to you. Evidence of that is the shape that you're in. Bro, look, I'm proud of you. There's something internally in you that says, I'm committed. I'm sticking to it. Even on the days where I don't feel like it. Dude, that's part of who you are. It's part of who you've been made to be. And I think you've worked really hard to steward that gift that you have.
• 16:41
  Hey, man, I just want to encourage you for that. So somebody's listening and thinking, hey, I want to be a better encourager. I want to spend that currency in wiser ways. Be authentic, which means you're specific. Prioritize the who over the do. Have a willingness to go a little bit deeper with people and tap into who they are.
• 16:57
  Yes, the more specific people are, but some people aren't articulate with their words as we are. And I would tell you this much, you can feel it. You can feel it in your bones and your gut. Like I'm in sales and I listen to it. I could tell in three seconds that you were authentic and genuine. You really wanted to know. And you didn't have an agenda. You just wanted to know who I was. So people, Art of Encouragement, give it a read. If you ever have a chance to see Jordan speak,
• 17:26
  You talk about all the superlatives he just gave me, he did. He did an opening for John Gordon, and Ed Mila had me in tears because he did his homework. So game recognizes game, and just follow this dude. He is an amazing person, and we're going to do a lot together. But let's talk about can you recall a time when encouragement backfired and what you did to learn from it?
• 17:53
  Oh, man. Many times, too many times. And I was the attaboy, way to go. You're the best. You're awesome. You're the man. That's who I was all through my 20s. I mean, I just, I lived on the surface. I didn't go very deep with people. I was going way too fast. I wasn't slowing down to really see people for who they are. So I had a moment in this sort of process of 27. I get fired. This story's also in the book.
• 18:16
  And this guy by the name of Tim Bohannon scoops me up. So he picks me up, says, hey, you can come work for me. Gives me a second chance. Same firm, actually, different office. I moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota. He said, one of the first things I want you to do is I want you to coach with this guy. His name is Bob Teichert. I'm going to pay for a coaching session with Bob. Bob is East Coast, really brash, older guy, had a lot of success, a lot of experience. The space between what he thinks and what he says is very small. Okay, so he's very candid.
• 18:42
  All Tim told me is Bob's my coach. He's the best. Go learn from Bob. Okay, great. Go learn from Bob. So I walked down the hall later that day. I walked into the conference room. Bob Teichert's waiting for me in his conference room. I opened the door. Bob's standing there, jet black suit, red tie. He says, hello, Jordan. I said, hey, Bob. Here I am, 27 years old, with all my inauthentic energy. Encouragement is about to backfire. I say, Bob, Bob.
• 19:12
  Man, I have heard so many great things about you. Now, the reality is that the first time I heard about Bob was, you know, an hour before that, Tim's office. He says, well, that's great. Like what? And I said, well, you know, I don't even know where to start because it just so many good things. You know, where do I even begin? I mean, I'm just like, oh, my gosh, he's got me.
• 19:39
  And he said, Jordan, why don't you have a seat? And I'm like, man, this is not going well. He's not laughing. It's a serious tone. We sit down at this long conference room table. It just feels cold and stale in the room. And he puts his hands on the table. It's probably 10 seconds. He didn't say a word. It felt like an eternity. And he looked at me and he patted his fingers on the table. He said, Jordan, I think you are full of shit.
• 20:07
  And I can laugh about it now, but man, it was just, and the tears just boom. Just he knew because he had talked to Tim. I'm here's this broken kid, not a kid. It's 27 year old man, but I'm young and I'm immature and any new, right? Overdeveloped, underexposed. He's inauthentic. And so, man, that was a time in my life. It really learned a lesson. I thought I'm never going to do that again, where I, with hot air, try to superficially encourage somebody without some substance to back it. So that would be a time.
• 20:36
  where, uh, where encouragement backpired credit to Bob. He said, you've got no authenticity problem. I want to help you with that. We had an hour long conversation. That was amazing, but that was a moment in my life for sure. What was so good about the book. And I'm laughing at that story because I remember reading, I just, you bear your soul and it's,
• 20:53
  It's hilarious because it is a teaching moment. And I grew up in such an abusive environment with my parents that I had that short space between what I was thinking and what I said. But what I said would always be the truth. But like our friend John Acuff says.
• 21:08
  If it's not kind, you probably shouldn't say it. So certain things, even though it's the true, it's probably not kind and it's not going to help. So just don't say it. I just always thought that giving people the hard, honest truth was the way to do it. So I never was that toxic, positive guy. And I just I don't take you for that at all. And I'm glad that you recognized it and moved on. And, you know, you now rub elbows with the great John Maxwell, who is.
• 21:38
  If there was a leadership Mount Rushmore, he would be one of the people. So what I'm going to do is give me your leadership Mount Rushmore, four people. Obviously, John's going to be one of them because he's literally, I could sit there and listen to him for hours. He's forgotten more about personal development and leadership than I'll ever know. So who would be the other three people on your Mount Rushmore? The people that I really learned from, I mean, if we're talking about people who walk planet Earth, Jesus would be first. Yeah.
• 22:06
  John Maxwell's on my Mount Rushmore for sure. He's taught me so much. Been so good to being kind to me. My father would be on Mount Rushmore. Just an unbelievable leader of people. And four would be the guy who nobody knows who's listening to this podcast probably. He's an elder at my church. And we cracked the Bible together once a week. He just sits at a coffee shop. He's retired. And he just, I cried talking about him because he's just such a sweet man. And he's taught me so much. His name is Dale Mulliken. And that would be, he'd be the fourth guy on my Mount Rushmore.
• 22:35
  I love that you're getting, you know, you made me emotional because you talk so, you know, and I just realized about the book that made me so happy is your relationship with your father. My father died 27, 28 years ago. And.
• 22:49
  I am who I am because of him. The moments that I did get to spend with him when I was young were very impactful. He was my calm in the abuse that was my mother and my stepfather. And he knew it was going on but couldn't do anything because he had his own demons. And he would just coach me through it. So in many respects, I'm envious of you and your father's relationship. One day I'd like to meet him because he sounds like an amazing human being.
• 23:20
  It truly is, man. And I'm so sorry to hear that you've been through that. And I love that you see the good in your father and that you can think of him that way. And yeah, I think for all of us, man, there's special people in our life, whether it be a mentor, a teacher, a parent. But I think about those people who shape us. And so many times it's not the person from the stage, the person that wrote a book. It's
• 23:39
  It's somebody who was really kind to you and loved you well when you needed it most. Which is you. I mean, like, you know, that event we were at and who did I connect the most with? You. And I love it. It was beautiful. What's a commonly accepted leadership principle that you believe is outdated, overrated? That's a great question. You're a gifted question asker, man. Outdated and overrated. You know, like that winning...
• 24:08
  is everything. That to me is a tough message. I think we teach people to win and be at their best and dominate. And we do such a poor job of helping people fail. And what I mean, fail, like fail well, like there's failing well, there's failing forward. People say stuff, adversity builds character. No, that's an incomplete sentence. Adversity builds character if you allow it to.
• 24:33
  It's still a choice. We all know people who've hit adversity and they're still dealing with adversity. If you're a leader listening to this episode, have a conversation with the people you mentor, teach coach about what they're learning. Hey, where'd you fail this week? What did you screwed up? Where'd you stubbed your toe? Let's talk about that. Let's laugh about it. Let's get better. Let's examine the loss. I think we do a really bad job of helping people process losing. And when I say that, I'm just reminded winners lose more than losers lose. Yeah.
• 25:00
  And so like, it's not about just like coping. It's about, no, that's actually the path toward impact and significance and meaning and purpose. You want to build something, man, you better, you better fail a lot. Failure is an activity. It's not an event. I want to coach people toward that. I think that winning is everything is, is outdated, highly overrated. Such a good answer, bro.
• 25:22
  Our good friend, Ed Milet, says winning is more fun than fun is fun. And he's right. But I would say learning is the most important thing. I'm a learn it all. I want to learn, learn, learn. And I'm addicted to that learning. So I would say learning is everything. Yeah, I would say learning is everything. And I look at your life, Kelly. So here's what I know about you. You've got more questions than you do answers. And you've lost a lot.
• 25:48
  which is why you've had all the success you've had, right? You've been through some stuff. You know what it's like to be at rock bottom. When I went through that experience, I had a buddy who wanted to start something. I said, I don't know, man. I've been through a lot. I don't know if you want to start something with me. Like my reputation was damaged. And he's like, hey, man, listen, I don't want to start something with anybody.
• 26:06
  who hasn't hit rock bottom. I want rock bottom partners. I want rock bottom friends. I want, I want people who've seen failure as an activity, not an event. So I just, you're, you have such a humble, teachable spirit. Cause I think you've been through stuff and I think you have a real willingness to get better and learn. John Wooden said, it's what you learn after you know it all that counts. I think you embody that spirit and all the success you've had. You have such a deep desire to grow and get better. Love that about spending time with you and just being around you.
• 26:35
  I receive all that thank you. And what I'm working on specifically is learning to receive and give love. If I had a love tank growing up till into my 20s, I'm in arrears. So that's why I really connected with you because your love giving is over the top. But I'll take it all. I'll take it all. And it's probably because those four girls run you crazy. And I love that.
• 27:01
  Well, hey, and, you know, I've been accused probably of like, was that, is that real or does he really mean that, you know? Hey, just buckle up. If you're going to be an encourager, there's going to be a lot of people who think you're fake or you don't mean it. And then to that end, it's like, hey, do your actions back the words?
• 27:18
  But yeah, I mean it when I say it man, that's real. So I'm glad to receive it. I'll vouch for it, I can guarantee it. And I would tell people that do that, your triggers are your teachers. That is absolutely, if you can't receive this beautiful human's love or love in general, it's something that you need to work on. There is, you want better fruit, address the root. And that is an unhealed childhood trauma that needs to be addressed. Mine was I didn't think I was deserving of love. I've done all the work as you said.
• 27:46
  It is one finger pointing away. There's three pointing right back at you, man. That's all on you. Why would you not want to feel love? That's all we, I just watched Anor. And if you go back and you watch Anor, won the Academy Award, every single person in there was just trying to be loved. And that's all we want as humans to give and receive love, be seen, and know that we matter. And you do that beautifully.
• 28:15
  Man, well, I appreciate that. And you're right. We all want to be known. I think it's one of the most basic human needs is to be known and to feel valued and to be seen and to know that your life is important. It's bigger than you. And so I think back to the art of encouragement, that's really what it's about, Kelly, is helping people feel seen, known, valued, and understood. And if you can help people with that, man, you can change the world. You can change.
• 28:37
  do amazing things relationally and, and cause you're, you're addressing somebody and their most important psychological human need. Well, they ought to have encouragement too. It's, it's,
• 28:48
  What is it? Positivity doesn't guarantee success, but negativity guarantees you won't be successful. So might as well be positive. That's right. That's right. Well said. Let's talk about your, uh, if you could give your children, which we've already talked to is so important to you, one leadership lesson to carry through life, what would it be? Yeah. That it's not about them. You know, that life is, life is not about you. Hmm.
• 29:15
  I love what C.S. Lewis says about pride. I just think all the people that we're fortunate enough to coach with, Kelly, so many of us, myself included, we battle pride. Because if you get better and bigger and God expands your territory and you have more influence, pride actually becomes a greater issue. So I want to coach my kids against pride. I'm going to read this.
• 29:43
  Just about pride so our listeners can hear this because it's so good. According to Christian teachers, the essential vice, the utmost evil is pride. Unchastity, anger, greed, drunkenness, and all that are mere flea bites in comparison. It was through pride that the devil became the devil.
• 30:04
  And, you know, it's like, man, I want my kids to battle against pride, to work against pride, to realize that life is not about them. That would be the that would be the lesson.
• 30:15
  Beautiful. First thing I thought of was the devil when you said that. I was coming up with, I've been very peaceful lately, and I'm going through a transition, and I basically had to choose between love and peace, and I chose peace. And I came up with an acronym today for peace, and the first one was proud, because I wanted to admit that I can choose me, because when I was a child, I...
• 30:42
  Nobody ever chose me. And when I was in search of love all the time, I would abandon my inner child and all he ever wanted was to was to be safe. So when I had that choice for love or peace, I chose peace. And it was as big of a choice as it was.
• 31:03
  it was an easy choice. And it was like, and I was just, it was because I've done the work and I know that I love myself and everything that I require I can supply. And so proud was, that's a huge, very humble way of being prideful. So I think a little bit of it with humility because it takes a lot of violence. It took a lot of violence to make me this peaceful.
• 31:27
  Yeah. Oh, that's good. Well, you know, I think, and part of that too, Kelly, is just knowing where your strength and your gifts and your opportunity comes from. I think that, because I think it's okay to feel some pride, right? Like I think about the Tim McGraw song, he says, let yourself feel the pride, but always be humble and kind.
• 31:42
  And I'll share with our listeners, this is a John Maxwell story. It's just one that I've hung on to for years because it's so powerful. John said, I was on the way up. And you've probably heard this before, Kelly. He said, I was on the way up. I was about 35 years old, starting to have a lot of success. And people are starting to know my name. And I'm speaking on different stages. And at the time, it was like Zig Ziglar and Jim Rohn. And those become his buddies. And anyway, so he has a guy at church one day says, John, I need to talk to you after church.
• 32:11
  Could we go to lunch? John says, sure. So he goes to lunch with this elder at his church. And he said, John says, I'll never forget the question. This guy looks me in the face and he says, John, are you getting told that you're pretty good? And John says, well, what do you mean? And he says, yeah, I see it. You're speaking on all the stages and you got all the praise and people really love you. They really love hearing from you. Are people telling you that you're really good?
• 32:40
  And he says, well, if I'm honest, I mean, yeah, I'm hearing that quite a bit. I hear that a lot. I'm pretty good. And he said, well, John, I asked you to lunch today to let you know that you're not great. And John's like, okay, well, thanks for the motivation. He says that you're not good. You're not great. He said, your gifts are great.
• 33:10
  You're not great. And the point is you were given a gift. You were given an opportunity. You've stewarded it well. It's your job to steward it. You got to work at it and steward it. I'm not taking anything away from that. I'm just saying you were given a gift. It's yours to steward. That gift comes from above. God's entrusted you with that gift. When people are praising you, when they're admiring you, they're not admiring you. They're admiring the gift inside of you. So for the leader listening, when you get that standing ovation, just don't forget that
• 33:37
  That person might not even know you. They're not admiring you. They're admiring the giftedness inside of you. And I think that posture keeps us in right relationship with pride. I can be proud of something I've done or something I'm doing, but I want to keep a right frame of mind of where that comes from, where that opportunity and where that gift came from. It's fine to steward it, but I ultimately was entrusted with an opportunity and a gift.
• 33:59
  I want to add to that the God's gifts are the things that come easy to you. The things that you don't have to think about to do. Like my being big is God's gift. God gave me this as –
• 34:12
  as I went through the adversity of the physical abuse that I took as a child. And now when I walk into a room, Jordan, you notice me. So thank you. This is God's gift. Now, do I have to work my butt off every single day at the gym? Yes. But, but there's people that could go to the gym every single day. You keep in good shape and, and don't get this big. That becomes a conversation starter. So when you, when we started this conversation, I said that things happen for you, not to you. Hey man, I didn't like those beatings,
• 34:42
  I like when I walked into a room, Jordan grabs me and hugs me, and then Ed Milet walks over and grabs me and goes, dude, I heard about you. I didn't realize you were this big. Thank you, dad, stepdad, for being a prick. I could have used something else, but those are God's gifts. God's gifts of me being able to read and see you and connect with you. It's what you do with those gifts. That's what I take away from John Maxwell all the time. What do you do with those gifts? Right.
• 35:11
  That makes you you. A lot of people take their God's gift and they don't do anything with it. And they say, I'm bored and they want to do something else. Take God's gifts and run with it. We're talking about workout plans. And if you had to develop a workout plan for strengthening mental resilience, what would it include, my friend?
• 35:31
  Externalization would be at the top of the list. You know, you're not in control of what you think, but you are in control of what you say. Ironically, what you say drives a lot of how you think. So, you know, the book of Proverbs says, the tongue brings life or death. Be really, really careful with your tongue and what you say. And so I think, you know, mental performance, part of my issue, John Gordon and I were talking about this the other day. So many mental coaches,
• 35:58
  We're talking about thinking there. They make you overthink. You're actually, you know, and it's all about thinking. I just I'm big on externalizing, like because you're in control of that. You're in control of what comes out of your mouth. And so that would be, you know, that's that's big time. I think your environment, you know, what you absorb, what you read, the people, places and things that that show up in your life. I think being really acutely aware of that.
• 36:20
  And I think your top relationships, it got to be a part of that workout plan. So from a practical standpoint, that might be affirmations on a daily basis. It might be a reading plan. It's audio book or reading on a daily basis. And then it might be, hey, I'm getting poured into on a daily basis. I'm also choosing to pour into somebody else. And so I think if you're doing those things, if you've got –
• 36:43
  the right type of environment. You got some people you're running with. You got the right type of content that you're absorbing and listening to. And you've got the right type of speech, speak the words that are coming out of your mouth. I think from a mental standpoint, you should be in good shape. And then finally, I just say...
• 37:02
  All of that's got to be soaked in prayer. You know, I mean, if you're connected, I know not everybody listening is a person of faith, but I think stepping outside of yourself, realizing that this life isn't about you and taking these things to God and just saying, hey, I pray that you would open doors for me to read the right thing, to listen to the right thing, to be able to speak the right things and be connected to the right people is an important step.
• 37:26
  I will add to that. I would say pay it. He talked about the tongue. I say pay attention, not the tongue in their mouth, the tongue in their shoes. Make sure that they're actually walking the walk. Oh, that's good. That's good. I would add that the, you know, you talk about in the Art of Encouragement, you know, send three encouraging text messages, emails or phone calls or even voice memos per day. I have a book coming out here shortly called Happier Than Life, which would be the workout workout.
• 37:54
  that I would recommend. It's, it basically dictates what I do. And I tell people, take, take what works for you and run with that. But I'm going to be giving that away to everybody. So, um, I just had on our good friend, John Acuff, who's just the most encouraging, happy, positive person. And he has that beautiful book soundtracks. And if a leader had a soundtrack, what would be the three most important songs on it?
• 38:26
  You know, I think there's got to be something in there about love, right? I mean, you spent so much time talking about love today. And I do think it's what people want more than anything else. They just want to be loved. So you have to find a song with love. I think, you know, I think about the song Don't Stop Believing. Like that's got to be, you know, something about belief, right? Like believing in yourself, but also believing in the goodness of others, believing that God's got a plan. So I think love, belief, and then –
• 38:51
  Something fun, man. Life is so short. Steve Weatherford said this to me last week. We had this big event. Steve's speaking at it. We hosted a bunch of athletes, speaker types. Steve is speaking. I introduced Steve. You know Steve. I said, Steve's the only guy that's as big as you. One of the things I admire about Steve is his boldness. Steve's really bold. When Steve got up to speak, he said, Brother, it's not boldness. It's joy.
• 39:22
  When he said that, I was like, yeah, man, like, I think we're called to live with joy. Like called to, I mean, how blessed are we that we get to do this life? We get to have air in our lungs and, and man, I get to live in this safe country. I get to have this beautiful family. I get to, it's not that I haven't been through stuff and you've been through stuff too, Kelly, but like, man.
• 39:38
  We're blessed. Like it's worked out pretty good for you to be Kelly Siegel, you know, and you've worked really hard. I'm not minimizing. I'm just saying it's worth it to live with joy, to believe. Love, belief and joy. It's beautiful. I was just thinking when you said that there's a song by Uncle Cracker called It's Good to Be Me.
• 39:57
  That's good to meet you. That's good to meet you. But Joey, Steve's a trip, man. That's when you said that, I'm like, oh, yeah, you're right. Joy. We forget about joy a lot. I forget this is supposed to be fun because I am one of those leaders that spirals in my brain because I'm a learn it all. Like I read. I've gone now to the point where I'm reading two books and listening to a book on a
• 40:22
  uh, on audible now, because I just, I want more information. I want more. And I think some of that might be, uh, we're, we're trying to get the podcast, the number one we've signed with, you know, Steven to do that. And we're trying to break into the top tier. And, um, I guess that some of it might be a limiting belief where I think, well, if I just can learn everything I can, but I just realized I got to lead with love authenticity and be me and everything will be okay.
• 40:48
  Right. Amen. Yeah. And it's worked out well for you, bro. You're doing that. I'm proud of you. You're doing that at a really high level. Thank you. I received that. A couple more questions. And I'm going to rapid fire somebody says they're so good. And I love your answers. What's the most unusual or unexpected piece of advice you've ever given to a CEO or executive? I think the bigger the business gets.
• 41:11
  the more time you need to spend at home. I don't know if it's unusual. I just think it's backwards. I think CEOs, executives, high-level entrepreneurs, the business gets bigger, the team gets bigger, there's more people, more problems, more money, and they think, well, I just got to spend more time on it. I don't think rest is a reward. I think it's a requirement. And you're called to go home and love people well. You want to change the world, go home and love your family.
• 41:36
  That would be the advice. That is so good. I'm going through that right now. And it's you cannot pour from an empty cup. And you have got to recharge. I do these. I build in these clarity breaks where I just sit down. I put a spiral notebook and I just write whatever's on my mind. And I block out that time and I shut my phone off.
• 41:57
  I find that the more I rest and recharge, I'm blessed enough that I have a home in Florida and one in Michigan. I go to my Florida house, shut my phone off, and I sit with my thoughts and I just start. And those are recharge moments. I tell everybody, use the weekends to build the life of your dreams not to escape from hell. And we get that backwards. So, guys...
• 42:21
  I used to be, that's why I named the second book, Happy in Life, because Harder Than Life was like, oh, you gotta grind, grind, grind. You hear some of our thought leaders, work harder, intensity, go through, rah, rah. And guys, I'm telling you, don't resist the resistance because it will persist. So that was some of the best advice I've ever heard. So you said some, I spend a lot of time in silence and a lot of time in solitude. So how do you help yourself?
• 42:50
  high performers who are struggling in silence and are afraid to ask for encouragement.
• 42:56
  Yeah. You're talking about like the high level entrepreneur executive type that isn't getting the help that they need or they're not they're not willing to open up. Well, I'll be honest with you. Like until very recently, I couldn't receive encouragement. And you hear me and you do it. You're great at this, too, as you say, I receive that. So you'll hear me say the same thing. So I fully feel it through my body because I was told.
• 43:22
  Full disclosure, I'm not saying this for anything other than to land this really home people. I was told by my stepdad father I was an idiot. I was going to amount to nothing and I was worthless over and over and over to the point where I did believe it. I did believe it. So I drank myself to a stupor for 25 years until I realized that was a lie. So when you give me encouragement, I didn't believe it because I'm not used to it.
• 43:48
  So I just, oh, yeah, yeah, that's nice. Thank you. And I would always deflect it and be like, no, no, no, you are. But now I stop and fully receive that. That's a being student of the game. And I love it, man. I love it. So that's what I mean. Someone who just sits in their stuff because behind closed doors, man, if I wouldn't journal back in the day because the things that would have come out of it would scare me.
• 44:12
  And if I gave it, if somebody saw it, they'd be like, this dude is messed up. But we're all a little messed up. So it's that guy or girl that's behind closed doors doesn't want to speak. Yeah, this is a real problem, especially for people who have a lot on their plate. You have a high drive. I ask, end of every year, I love having this conversation with high-level leaders. Maybe there's somebody listening who can identify with this. I say, how many people on your team told you that you had a good year?
• 44:42
  Not the organization. Not the organization. You, personal. That you won, that you did well, that you stewarded your gifts well. I had a conversation with a leader just at the end of this past year. He's got about a 150-person team. He's the president of the organization. Runs the deal. Founder, CEO, president. How many people said that to you? And he said, I don't.
• 45:04
  One. And he said, uh, it's the same guy that tells me that every year, but that's it. You know, so, so they, he spends his entire life telling everybody else, good job, way to go and add it, you know, but nobody is, is given that to him the other way. So, so I think it's, um,
• 45:19
  I think it's important for all of us to remember that everybody needs love and encouragement, even those at the top. If you're at the top and you struggle with that, I would say put yourself in a position where people can do that for you. Have a coach. Have a mentor. Get around some people. Share that. Hey, I'm not receiving a lot of love and encouragement. I know that's hard for people, but –
• 45:39
  you need to be encouraged. You need to feel loved. You got to open up about that. Put yourself around some people who are maybe at a higher altitude or in a different space or because they sit in a different seat, they're willing to do that for you. That's beautiful. I did that for Ed when we saw him and you could just feel that the health was bothering him. And he looked at me and gave me a double take and I'm like, trust me, I know you need it.
• 45:58
  It was good. I just want to pour in everybody, man. I imagine this world, Jordan, of happiness where we're all united. We tell the truth. I just I have this utopian world that I'm going to contribute to as as crazy brained as it sounds.
• 46:19
  I'm building that world because of the people I have in my ecosystem. When I can reach out to a Jordan Montgomery and Ed Milet, John Gordon, and say, I've got this weird feeling. I need help with it. And a text message away. And it's just that world exists. We just have to go within everything.
• 46:39
  and let it out and be more vulnerable. Amen. Well said. Yeah, well said. Yeah, and you bring that out of people. You just said that with Ed. I think you have a heart for – I think you influence those who have influence. That's a position that God's trusted you with is just to add value to people, to encourage people.
• 46:57
  And bro, you're bold, man. You're like, you put yourself at the table. You put yourself in positions to build those relationships. And so I commend you for that. A lot of people forget that the Ed Milets of the world still need love, still need encouragement. And instead of adding value to Ed, they're pulling on Ed. And I think you're around to say, no, I want to add value to you because you're a real person with a heart that...
• 47:20
  Needs encouragement. I have to acknowledge you for saying that. It just warmed my heart. I influenced the people that are influenced. That's pretty good. Thank you. If you could remove one word from the leadership vocabulary, what would it be and why? Maybe micromanaging. People talk about micromanaging. Not that we should micromanage. Here's what I mean by that.
• 47:43
  We have lost our way when it comes to standards and accountability, so much so that when you try to hold somebody accountable, I hear leaders say, I don't really want to hold my team accountable. I don't want to micromanage, is what they say. What I'm really hearing them say is, oh, you don't want to inspect the work. You don't want to make sure your people are doing a good job because we have such a hard time and difficult conversations and challenge. And then on the other side of that, people say, oh, I don't want to be micromanaged.
• 48:12
  And what I hear him say is, I don't want accountability. Like, I think teams should have tension. We should have challenge. I think honest conflict holds more social value than dishonest harmony. I think we got to get real with the people we care about. To be clear is to be kind. If you love somebody, challenge them. Hold them accountable. Call them up. Ed says this all the time. I'm not going to accept the current version of you. If I really care about you and you're not doing your job,
• 48:34
  I'm not going to accept it. I care about you too much. I want to call you up. I want to believe in you more. So this whole idea of micromanaging drives me nuts. I'm not suggesting we should micromanage. I'm just saying when people say that, I think oftentimes what they're really saying is I don't want to challenge. I don't want to hold people accountable. I'm not okay with difficult conversations. And I think it's really unfortunate.
• 48:54
  Yeah, that's so true. They don't want to have that difficult conversation because they don't want the feedback. And it's very simple. Micromanagement is very simple. You just put a process in place, a standard operating procedures and manage to that. That's it. And either we hit it or not. You have a people or a process problem. If it's a people problem, we got to figure out why, why they're not following the process. And if you don't have a process, you're the problem. Well said, well said.
• 49:23
  Imagine you're, we're talking about syllabuses. This is a good one. Imagine you're designing a college course called Encouragement 101. What's on the syllabus? Oh, man. These are just so good. The syllabus. That's a great question. I think I would go back to what we talked about earlier. I think authentic encouragement.
• 49:43
  I think character encouragement, who overdo, understanding how to make somebody shine in front of other people. I think those three things would be on the syllabus.
• 49:54
  Two quick questions. We'll get you out of here. If you could put up one billboard message with a message for every leader in the world, what would it say? It's not about you. It's not about you. We said that earlier. All right. Last one. We're going to ask about the kids. What's a leadership lesson you've learned from your children that you wish more executives understood? Oh, man. Olivia keeps me on my toes. She's five.
• 50:22
  She asks more questions. She might have broken. She'd break the Guinness Book of World Records for questions asked in a single year. Like she is so curious and it drives us nuts.
• 50:32
  But I think so many times as leaders, we stop asking questions. I'm reminded leadership is more about asking questions and giving answers. But I want to keep the posture of like, what am I missing? What do I not understand? What do I need to know? Too many times in my leadership, Kelly, I make assumptions. Like I've got the answer for, I know what's going on. I know how people feel. I know how they're doing. I know how Kelly's feeling. I know what's going on with this podcast. I make too many assumptions.
• 50:56
  This is for me, man. I'm just being real. I don't ask enough questions. I got to ask more questions. I got to be more curious. Kids, my daughter Olivia, but just kids in general. They're such great reminders of that. Be curious. Ask more questions.
• 51:11
  I would flip that on its head and I would say the patience to answer questions. Because if you don't make it safe for people to ask questions, because I remember my daughter being five. Why? Why? Why? Why? And I would lose my cool. They're just sponges. So are your employees. So have the patience to answer every question until it's nauseam because it's the question they don't ask where we make assumptions and things get missed.
• 51:39
  Jordan, I freaking love you. Guys, get out and read his book, Art of Encouragement. Wherever you can, get more of Jordan. He's a beautiful, beautiful human. I'm glad to call him friend. Today was fun, my friend. Congratulations on the house and on all your success. I'll be in touch, my brother.
• 51:57
  Hey, brother, just I'll leave you with this. You're a big dude. We talked about your size today. You're big. And the only thing bigger than your muscles is your heart. You're such a big hearted dude. You're kind. You're caring. You're incredibly intentional. I'm so blessed to call you friend. Thank you for having me today.
• 52:13
  Thank you. Till next time, be harder than life. Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.