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Mark Lamb: Nancy Guthrie Crime Scene RUINED (Sheriff Nanos & The Bathroom Scandal) · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

0:00
Speaker 1: If you think the Nancy Guthrie investigation is just slow,
0:02
Speaker 1: you're missing the scandal. Former Panal County Sheriff Mark Lamb
0:05
Speaker 1: tells me people were using the bathroom inside the crime scene.
0:09
Speaker 1: Sheriff now has released that crime scene way too early
0:11
Speaker 1: and then went to a University of Arizona basketball game
0:14
Speaker 1: while a woman was missing. This isn't just in competence.
0:17
Speaker 1: The evidence might just be gone forever. Watch this. Let
0:21
Speaker 1: me ask you up front, if you know this guy Nanos.
0:23
Speaker 1: I know that it's a neighboring county from where you
0:26
Speaker 1: were the sheriff for a long time. Pima County is
0:28
Speaker 1: not Panal County. I don't know the makeup of the county,
0:31
Speaker 1: But just as an observer, I'm watching him and I'm going,
0:34
Speaker 1: what's he doing? They released the crime scene too early.
0:38
Speaker 1: He's at a basketball game the other day. He admits
0:40
Speaker 1: that they messed up. So let's start from the start.
0:42
Speaker 1: Do you know this guy and how would you rate
0:45
Speaker 1: what he's been doing on this case so far?
0:48
Speaker 2: I do know him. There's only fifteen sheriffs in the
0:50
Speaker 2: state of Arizona, and our counties boarded. We worked together
0:53
Speaker 2: on a few things. He's been very good. I had
0:55
Speaker 2: a deputy shot one time. He came in, was right
0:58
Speaker 2: there for us. You know, doing the media pieces. Part
1:02
Speaker 2: of being sheriff. Being able to go in front of
1:04
Speaker 2: the cameras and talk to people about a major case
1:07
Speaker 2: and give them confidence that that case is being handled
1:11
Speaker 2: to the best of the agency's ability, that you're exhausting
1:14
Speaker 2: every resource is one of the primary responsibilities. I can
1:18
Speaker 2: say he does not look very comfortable in front of
1:20
Speaker 2: the camera. I don't feel like the family has really
1:23
Speaker 2: felt that sense of confidence that they're looking for from
1:26
Speaker 2: law enforcement. And you mentioned the basketball game. Look, I'm
1:29
Speaker 2: not one to bash on people. Everybody's got to do
1:31
Speaker 2: their thing. I certainly don't like to take shots at
1:33
Speaker 2: sheriff's and I don't mean this as a shot. That's
1:36
Speaker 2: not what I would have done. I think you've got
1:38
Speaker 2: to read the room. I think you've got to understand
1:40
Speaker 2: that the family, this is everything to them right now,
1:43
Speaker 2: and you might have to miss that game so to
1:46
Speaker 2: be able to And this isn't the only case they have,
1:48
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of cases they've got going on,
1:51
Speaker 2: but this is the case that's garnering the national attention.
1:54
Speaker 2: And I would have probably skipped the basketball game.
1:57
Speaker 1: Well, I think that you make a great point, beguyse
1:59
Speaker 1: this has internet intrigue. You've got people from the BBC,
2:02
Speaker 1: from the Guardian, people from Australia, for god sakes, carrying
2:05
Speaker 1: this every single day, a case out of Tucson, Arizona.
2:09
Speaker 1: So I think that, like you said, you've got to
2:10
Speaker 1: read the room better. But but you all, the first
2:13
Speaker 1: point you made really jumps out at me. Mark. You
2:15
Speaker 1: were an unbelievable sheriff. I wish that you could be
2:17
Speaker 1: sheriff forever. I think you are America's sheriff. I believe that.
2:20
Speaker 1: But along with why you were so good was your
2:23
Speaker 1: knowledge of law enforcement. You speak two languages, knowing you
2:26
Speaker 1: know who your constituency is. You also in front of
2:29
Speaker 1: the camera are this good every single time? So when
2:32
Speaker 1: you get elected to that job, you've got to expect
2:34
Speaker 1: that you were going to be the face of that
2:37
Speaker 1: force and that that sheriff's department is not looking great
2:39
Speaker 1: right now because of the speed of the leader. Does
2:42
Speaker 1: that make sense?
2:43
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And look, when it comes time for re election,
2:46
Speaker 2: I think this case is probably going to come back
2:48
Speaker 2: to haunt him because of how I think that the
2:53
Speaker 2: public has perceived him, and on a national level, there's
2:56
Speaker 2: been a lot of fire at him. Look, I'm going
2:58
Speaker 2: to give him some cover because when you go into
3:00
Speaker 2: these initial cases, it is not illegal for an adult
3:03
Speaker 2: to disappear. So oftentimes when we go into a case
3:06
Speaker 2: where there's somebody that's not there, it doesn't always start
3:10
Speaker 2: off as an abduction or a kidnapping case. You have
3:13
Speaker 2: to then start to look and see is there evidence,
3:16
Speaker 2: is there dementia, is there mental health issues, or is
3:20
Speaker 2: there evidence to believe that this was a violent or
3:23
Speaker 2: an abduction or something else. Now you're not gonna maybe
3:27
Speaker 2: see that initially, and I don't know how they process
3:29
Speaker 2: the scene initially, but they did come up with enough
3:33
Speaker 2: to say, yes, this looks like an abduction case or
3:35
Speaker 2: at least removed without her will. And we've got enough
3:39
Speaker 2: on the scene to tell us that. So we're gonna
3:42
Speaker 2: treat this case a little bit differently, so you don't
3:45
Speaker 2: always go into the case thinking this is an abduction.
3:48
Speaker 1: And I don't want to drag the guy anymore. I
3:50
Speaker 1: do want to talk about the investigative tactics though, because
3:52
Speaker 1: I'm not an investigator, but I've learned a lot from
3:54
Speaker 1: you certainly going by the way, going supportiscandidacy, sherifflame dot com,
3:58
Speaker 1: sherifflame dot com. You get to the scene, and again,
4:01
Speaker 1: we don't know that it's Savannah Guthrie's mother yet. And
4:04
Speaker 1: she disappeared early in the morning on Sunday morning, and
4:08
Speaker 1: nobody even knows that she's gone until she doesn't show
4:11
Speaker 1: up for Sunday mass right or Sunday service. So you've
4:14
Speaker 1: got a good long time there. That's probably a good
4:16
Speaker 1: eight ten hours before you even know that she's missing,
4:18
Speaker 1: You get a missing person's report, you go there. So
4:21
Speaker 1: far this is not an international intrigued story. I get it.
4:24
Speaker 1: But Mark, look again, I'm kind of a dumb guy
4:26
Speaker 1: when it comes to investigating. You've got blood at our
4:29
Speaker 1: front door, You've got the camera is disabled and you
4:32
Speaker 1: could see that spotlights are knocked out or the not
4:35
Speaker 1: working right, and her car is stole there, but she's not.
4:39
Speaker 1: At that point, you're now in the investigative mode. Would
4:42
Speaker 1: you have released and again this isn't about dragging nanos,
4:45
Speaker 1: I'm just asking you investigatively. Would you have released the
4:48
Speaker 1: house a day or two later? I mean, they said, okay,
4:50
Speaker 1: we're all clear they took the crime tape down. I
4:52
Speaker 1: don't get it.
4:53
Speaker 2: Now. We've sat on houses for lesser things for days
4:57
Speaker 2: at a time, and this would have been something that
4:59
Speaker 2: in tell you sure that you had all the evidence
5:02
Speaker 2: you would contain. Because this is a very fluid case, Joe.
5:05
Speaker 2: You're getting information, tips, ransom letters, you're getting all this stuff.
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Speaker 2: You can't You've got to be able to process it,
5:12
Speaker 2: evaluate it to make sure that the information they may
5:16
Speaker 2: be giving you on a ransom letter is legit, because
5:19
Speaker 2: the house has been undisturbed since she left. But I
5:23
Speaker 2: was actually hearing from people that are providing security down
5:26
Speaker 2: there that when they need to use the bathroom, they
5:28
Speaker 2: go inside the house and use the bathroom. The scene
5:30
Speaker 2: has really been lost and it's been shut you know,
5:33
Speaker 2: it's been roped off multiple times. Look, everybody, it's easy
5:37
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. Hindsight is twenty twenty. But one of the
5:40
Speaker 2: first rules of crime scene is you got to lock
5:42
Speaker 2: down the scene and hold it as long as you can,
5:45
Speaker 2: especially if there's no need for anybody to get back
5:48
Speaker 2: into the home. This is something you want to lock
5:50
Speaker 2: down and keep it locked down so that you can
5:52
Speaker 2: preserve whatever evidence may be there so that when you
5:56
Speaker 2: do find her, you can also ensure a conviction as well.
6:00
Speaker 2: Whatever whether the crime stops it the kidnapping if it,
6:04
Speaker 2: or Heaven forbid, it progresses into what what could be
6:07
Speaker 2: potentially be a murder, you want to make sure that
6:09
Speaker 2: you preserve all of the evidence that you can. And
6:12
Speaker 2: as far as this being so international and across this country,
6:17
Speaker 2: we're enthralled with true crime. It's to the point where
6:20
Speaker 2: I've even started a true crime channel on YouTube. But
6:23
Speaker 2: we love true crime and we're living this right now.
6:27
Speaker 2: We're like, we're all in this investigation together, and so
6:30
Speaker 2: that is part of the intrigue. I've been saying on
6:33
Speaker 2: some of the media, and I don't want to get
6:34
Speaker 2: too far off the path because I want to stay
6:36
Speaker 2: focused on this case. But I wish that we gave
6:38
Speaker 2: missing children cases the same attention nationally and media wise
6:44
Speaker 2: and resource wise as we are giving to this case.
6:48
Speaker 2: Not that I want to take away from this case,
6:50
Speaker 2: but I think that a lot of families are saying
6:52
Speaker 2: to themselves, they did not give me this type of attention,
6:55
Speaker 2: and my child would listen, and I would hope that
6:57
Speaker 2: we would learn something through this case from that.
7:00
Speaker 1: I hope that we do as well. And that's certainly
7:01
Speaker 1: going to resonate with somebody like me. I've got five daughters.
7:03
Speaker 1: I get it without a doubt. But let's go back
7:06
Speaker 1: to what you said before. That the reason why you've
7:08
Speaker 1: got a YouTube channel on true crime, and the reason
7:10
Speaker 1: why when I invested. When I interviewed this FBI investigator
7:13
Speaker 1: the other day, it went absolutely ballistic. People are locked
7:16
Speaker 1: to their devices. I just want an update when we
7:19
Speaker 1: have something where we just don't know, we have no idea.
7:23
Speaker 1: I think that really grabs our attention. And now here's
7:25
Speaker 1: Savannah Gufree forced to go on television do these or
7:29
Speaker 1: on Instagram and do these videos with her brother and sister.
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Speaker 1: The whole thing is so screwed up. Let's talk about
7:33
Speaker 1: the case and and by the way, oh no, but
7:36
Speaker 1: please to say, please those videos real quick.
7:39
Speaker 2: I don't mean to interrupt, Joe, because I don't want
7:41
Speaker 2: you to get too far away. Those videos they are purposeful
7:44
Speaker 2: as well. If you're familiar with how we do cases
7:48
Speaker 2: for with missing people, those messages were very they they
7:52
Speaker 2: were very purposeful. Not to kill that word, but they're
7:57
Speaker 2: very purposeful. What happened is, she says look, we want
8:00
Speaker 2: to open a line of communication. That's one of the
8:02
Speaker 2: things you do with somebody that's been kidnapped. Number Two,
8:05
Speaker 2: you have an ask of the kidnappers. You say, we
8:08
Speaker 2: need proof of life on this case. So that and
8:11
Speaker 2: we don't want to see there's a lot of fake
8:13
Speaker 2: stuff out there, so please give us real proof of life.
8:16
Speaker 2: And the third thing that you will do is humanize
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Speaker 2: the victim, which they did both the brother and Savannah.
8:22
Speaker 2: They've done in those videos. They humanize or she's our mother,
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Speaker 2: we love her, if she's a great woman. This is
8:28
Speaker 2: what you do. So while that was they don't tell
8:30
Speaker 2: you exactly what to say, they were following a script
8:33
Speaker 2: that FBI or law enforcement. We use that script to
8:37
Speaker 2: be able to get this case moving to where we
8:41
Speaker 2: need to get it moving.
8:43
Speaker 1: It's such a great point. I'm glad that And by
8:44
Speaker 1: the way, there's a little bit of a delay between us,
8:46
Speaker 1: so don't worry about it. Just jump in if you
8:47
Speaker 1: want to interrupt. It is a Sheriff Mark Lamb Retire
8:50
Speaker 1: Panel County Arizona running for District five, republic Ingratiated of
8:53
Speaker 1: Arizona sherifflame dot com. Let's talk about that a little
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Speaker 1: bit further, Mark, is it weird that the ransom note
8:58
Speaker 1: isn't going to the family, it's not even going to
9:00
Speaker 1: the police. The ransom notes of going to the local
9:02
Speaker 1: KOLD channel thirteen or something. What does that tell you
9:07
Speaker 1: that this guy is sending or these people are sending
9:09
Speaker 1: these notes if they're real, to a local TV station.
9:13
Speaker 2: So I'm a little dubious as to whether they are real.
9:16
Speaker 2: First of all, Joe, we've already had one where somebody
9:19
Speaker 2: got arrested. There's supposedly been some information in there, and
9:22
Speaker 2: I've heard a little bit behind the scenes that I
9:24
Speaker 2: don't want to divulge, but there's been information in those
9:27
Speaker 2: letters that would indicate that these might be legit, and
9:31
Speaker 2: you have to treat them as such. If you don't
9:33
Speaker 2: know for sure they're not, you've got to treat them
9:35
Speaker 2: as legit. Part of the reason they may be sending
9:38
Speaker 2: them to the media is because it provides a level
9:41
Speaker 2: of protection. The freedom of press is probably going to
9:44
Speaker 2: give a little bit of buffer. I don't know that
9:46
Speaker 2: the press would share an IP address or Sarah information
9:49
Speaker 2: on a source as readily as maybe the family would
9:54
Speaker 2: be able to immediately. The FBI is going to be
9:56
Speaker 2: on it, looking for the IP, looking for any information
9:59
Speaker 2: they can to try down where those are coming from.
10:01
Speaker 2: So that could be one of the reasons what is
10:04
Speaker 2: odd to me. I was asked yesterday, what is odd
10:06
Speaker 2: to me? Is the six million dollar figure?
10:08
Speaker 1: Right?
10:09
Speaker 2: And they said why? And I said, well, why not five?
10:11
Speaker 2: Why not ten? It's just weird that somebody would pick
10:14
Speaker 2: six million dollars as that number. Some of the information
10:18
Speaker 2: I've heard that is information coming from in the house.
10:21
Speaker 2: I'll tell you one of them was like, I think iPhone,
10:25
Speaker 2: you know, a watch charge. I don't want to say
10:26
Speaker 2: what the other one was. So there was enough information
10:30
Speaker 2: for them to say we better take this serious. So
10:33
Speaker 2: I don't know whether it's been vetted to be true,
10:36
Speaker 2: but they have to err on the side of caution.
10:38
Speaker 1: It is Sheriff, Mark Levi, Sheriff. I've got to ask
10:40
Speaker 1: you because my brain's going to million miles a minute
10:42
Speaker 1: trying to figure out if I were a bad guy
10:44
Speaker 1: and I'm not, so I can't really get into that mindset.
10:46
Speaker 1: If I were going to be holding somebody for ransom,
10:48
Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is show signs of life.
10:51
Speaker 1: Why I wouldn't think I would be getting paid if
10:53
Speaker 1: I can't prove that I still have the person alive.
10:55
Speaker 1: Why do you think we haven't gotten a sign of
10:57
Speaker 1: life yet. I'm not asking you if she dead or alive.
10:59
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if you really want to get that money.
11:02
Speaker 1: And Savannah just said in the most recent one, we
11:04
Speaker 1: will pay. Why wouldn't you give me something that shows
11:08
Speaker 1: me that she's still alive.
11:10
Speaker 2: Well, this is why I had struggled to believe that
11:12
Speaker 2: these these ransom letters are true. That's why it gives
11:16
Speaker 2: me pause, is because you're right. You would show proof
11:19
Speaker 2: of life, say, look, we haven't, so that would make
11:22
Speaker 2: them want to give the money should there be an
11:25
Speaker 2: actual abduction, you know, like if this was legit, they
11:29
Speaker 2: would want to pay the money because they've seen the
11:31
Speaker 2: proof of life. The fact, if you were scamming, if
11:34
Speaker 2: you were just a really good scammer, which there are,
11:37
Speaker 2: and you were taking advantage of this situation, you would
11:40
Speaker 2: be unable to show proof of life. So you're going
11:42
Speaker 2: to try to muscle them into making the payment and
11:46
Speaker 2: then tell them you're going to drop her off in
11:48
Speaker 2: a safe location. They didn't say they would drop her
11:50
Speaker 2: off safely. They just said they would drop her off
11:52
Speaker 2: in a safe location somewhere in Tucson, and I think
11:54
Speaker 2: that's a big distinction. So that gives me pause. You know,
12:00
Speaker 2: we deal with a lot of cartel stuff. You get
12:02
Speaker 2: a lot of cartel abductions, and they're always they are
12:06
Speaker 2: much more apt to show like a proof of life,
12:08
Speaker 2: and this doesn't have any of those signs to me.
12:11
Speaker 2: Those tales, and I've discussed it with other people that
12:14
Speaker 2: have dealt with them as well, This doesn't feel like that.
12:16
Speaker 2: This really feels there's some familiarity in how this went about,
12:22
Speaker 2: and this always going to be kind of how you're
12:23
Speaker 2: going to look at first. Anyway, Over ninety percent of
12:26
Speaker 2: cases like this are done by somebody who's familiar with
12:29
Speaker 2: the family or even a family member haven't forbid, So
12:32
Speaker 2: that's going to be where you're going to really kind
12:35
Speaker 2: of start your targeting in that area.
12:38
Speaker 1: Mark. As you were speaking, Savannah Guthrie dropped another video
12:41
Speaker 1: and you haven't seen this. I haven't seen this. I
12:44
Speaker 1: will try to edit it in later, but I'll let
12:46
Speaker 1: you hear it as you do this interview live, and
12:48
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, give me your thoughts as soon
12:50
Speaker 1: as this is done. It'say about a minute a half long.
12:52
Speaker 1: Tell me what you think about this because the last
12:53
Speaker 1: video that we just saw a lot of people started
12:55
Speaker 1: questioning whether Nancy Guthrie was alive for the simple reason
12:59
Speaker 1: that they were like, we want to be at peace
13:01
Speaker 1: or we want to celebrate with her. They weren't. They
13:04
Speaker 1: didn't ask a proof of life last time. This is
13:06
Speaker 1: what Savannah Guthrie dropped. This is less than thirty minutes ago.
13:11
Speaker 3: Hi, there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just
13:18
Speaker 3: share a few thoughts as we enter into another week
13:25
Speaker 3: of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all,
13:31
Speaker 3: thank you so much for all of the prayers and
13:38
Speaker 3: the love that we have felt, my sister and brother
13:41
Speaker 3: and I and that our mom has felt. Because we
13:48
Speaker 3: believe that somehow, in some ways, she is feeling these
13:52
Speaker 3: prayers and that God is lifting her even in this
13:55
Speaker 3: moment and in this darkest place, we believe our mom
14:00
Speaker 3: is still out there. We need your help. Law enforcement
14:09
Speaker 3: is working tirelessly around the clock trying to bring her home,
14:13
Speaker 3: trying to find her. She was taken and we don't
14:17
Speaker 3: know where, and we need your help. So I'm coming
14:25
Speaker 3: on just to ask you not just for your prayers.
14:28
Speaker 3: But no matter where you are, even if you're far
14:30
Speaker 3: from Tucson, if you see anything, you hear anything, if
14:35
Speaker 3: there's anything at all that seems strange to you, that
14:40
Speaker 3: you report to law enforcement. We are an hour of
14:46
Speaker 3: desperation and we need your help.
14:52
Speaker 1: She just posted that a half an hour ago. Mark,
14:53
Speaker 1: What do you.
14:54
Speaker 2: Think So the initial please were to the kidnappers, the abductors,
14:59
Speaker 2: this plea, because that that's gone nowhere. So now this
15:01
Speaker 2: initial this plea is to the public, And this is
15:04
Speaker 2: really to somebody who may have information, who may know
15:08
Speaker 2: the people that are responsible for what's going on, and
15:11
Speaker 2: you're hoping that you can reach them emotionally, to be
15:15
Speaker 2: able to strike a chord within somebody that might have
15:19
Speaker 2: information that normally probably wouldn't give it up, that maybe
15:23
Speaker 2: getting concerned, they don't want to get roped in with
15:25
Speaker 2: the crime. So I think this is actually more for
15:28
Speaker 2: obviously more for the it doesn't take a rocket scientist
15:31
Speaker 2: figure that out, but it's more for the public, and
15:33
Speaker 2: it's really probably targeted more to those who might have
15:37
Speaker 2: intimate knowledge of what's going on and trying to strike
15:40
Speaker 2: a chord with those people.
15:42
Speaker 1: She uses the word desperation, sheriff. I mean, obviously she's
15:45
Speaker 1: very frustrated we're not getting she's not getting the innswest
15:48
Speaker 1: that maybe she thinks that she needs. And certainly she
15:50
Speaker 1: says of her mom back, So I understand where she's
15:52
Speaker 1: coming from. But to use the word desperation, what does
15:55
Speaker 1: that tell you?
15:57
Speaker 2: Well, desperation means that they haven't had a lot of hope,
16:00
Speaker 2: which means they haven't been given anything any Maybe there's
16:02
Speaker 2: no leads. I don't know. I would like to believe
16:05
Speaker 2: that the video they recovered from the gas station and
16:08
Speaker 2: some of the other businesses that they've been approaching, that
16:11
Speaker 2: that maybe they've gotten some video information that has given
16:14
Speaker 2: them some leads to work off of. When when the
16:17
Speaker 2: agencies kind of go quiet, it leads me to believe
16:20
Speaker 2: that they're working leads and they don't want to they
16:23
Speaker 2: don't want to disturb the uh, they don't want to
16:26
Speaker 2: rustle up the weeds too much because they they don't
16:29
Speaker 2: want the suspect to go quiet on them. And so
16:32
Speaker 2: I think that they've probably got something there and maybe
16:35
Speaker 2: this is to make them feel comfortable. Maybe they're closer
16:38
Speaker 2: than we think. There's a lot at play I'm kind
16:41
Speaker 2: of you know, I'm using some speculation here on many ends,
16:46
Speaker 2: but there's a lot that could be going on.
16:49
Speaker 1: It is a Sheriff Mark lanb retired Panel County, Arizona,
16:51
Speaker 1: running for District five Republican Great State of Arizona. Go
16:54
Speaker 1: to sheriff land dot com and help him win that seat.
16:56
Speaker 1: Andy Biggs is running for governor of Arizona. That's why
16:59
Speaker 1: the seat is going to be availed. Let's talk about
17:02
Speaker 1: what they what they didn't take with them when they
17:04
Speaker 1: took her. Didn't take the Apple watch which is sync
17:07
Speaker 1: to her pacemaker, that's a problem. Didn't take her medication.
17:10
Speaker 1: She's got a heart condition, that's a problem. Mark, Does
17:13
Speaker 1: that tell you that that's somebody who knows her, or
17:15
Speaker 1: that's that's somebody who doesn't know her, Because if she
17:18
Speaker 1: were conscious and I have no idea what her condition was,
17:21
Speaker 1: you know when they when they left the house. But
17:23
Speaker 1: if she's conscious, she's gonna say it. He might my
17:25
Speaker 1: heart pills, I need, my pacemaker is connected to my watch.
17:28
Speaker 1: What do you make of them leaving those vital things there? Anything?
17:32
Speaker 2: Well, Joe, like I already mentioned, over ninety percent of
17:35
Speaker 2: these cases are often are going to be people who
17:37
Speaker 2: are familiar with the person or family, somebody close and
17:42
Speaker 2: so that automatically points that direction. Then you find the
17:46
Speaker 2: camera was removed from the front door. This is a
17:48
Speaker 2: very dark, dark area. There's no lighting, no street lights,
17:53
Speaker 2: so somebody is going to have to know. Okay, I've
17:55
Speaker 2: got to disable this. There was a flood light on
17:57
Speaker 2: the side of the house that we saw was broken.
18:00
Speaker 2: We saw that they were there for a period of time.
18:03
Speaker 2: It looks like it could be thirty minutes they were
18:05
Speaker 2: there in the residence. So to me, it shows a
18:08
Speaker 2: lot of familiarity with the residence, with probably her as well,
18:14
Speaker 2: knowing enough to know that she has a pacemaker to
18:16
Speaker 2: leave obviously going to leave the watch on the phone
18:18
Speaker 2: behind because that's how people can track you. So that's
18:22
Speaker 2: kind of that one. Really isn't that big of a deal.
18:24
Speaker 2: That's not a surprise. A good Kraminal or somebody who's
18:28
Speaker 2: planned this out would leave that behind.
18:30
Speaker 1: Yes, But.
18:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the meds, you know, maybe they just maybe
18:37
Speaker 2: they did take some of it. Who knows, ye, I
18:39
Speaker 2: don't know that anybody really knows how many were in
18:41
Speaker 2: the bottle.
18:42
Speaker 1: So man, that's a really Hey, Mark that's a really
18:44
Speaker 1: good point. I've heard nobody say they could have grabbed
18:46
Speaker 1: enough for a few days. You're thinking that this would
18:48
Speaker 1: be over quickly. That's actually a very good point. But
18:51
Speaker 1: without it now, and if they don't get it refilled somewhere,
18:54
Speaker 1: if they've had her for more than a week, a
18:55
Speaker 1: week and three days or something, now, I mean that
18:57
Speaker 1: we're a week of a day. I mean we're talking
18:59
Speaker 1: about what she just said, desperation for sure. Why haven't
19:03
Speaker 1: they said excluded anybody yet? Mark, I gotta tell you, man,
19:07
Speaker 1: and I don't know anything from anything other than watching
19:09
Speaker 1: you on Live PD and seeing your true live your
19:11
Speaker 1: true crime stories, and you're the best in the business.
19:14
Speaker 1: Why not exclude everybody in the family? Now? That really
19:17
Speaker 1: jumps out at me? Does it jump out at you?
19:20
Speaker 2: Yeah? I've been saying this from the beginning. What my
19:22
Speaker 2: job would be is I would sit down with the
19:24
Speaker 2: family and say, this is nothing personal, but we're trying
19:27
Speaker 2: to find your mother and we are going to have
19:29
Speaker 2: to start where we think the crime could potentially be.
19:32
Speaker 2: We have to vet all of you. We need to
19:34
Speaker 2: make sure we need your phones, we need to make
19:36
Speaker 2: sure that we can clear you as potential leads or suspects.
19:40
Speaker 2: That would have been one of my first things. Now,
19:42
Speaker 2: I would have cast a wide net. At the same time,
19:45
Speaker 2: I would have made sure that we're not letting her
19:47
Speaker 2: get any further than what we needed, worked with the
19:49
Speaker 2: state partners, make sure that we checked all the LPRs,
19:52
Speaker 2: the license plate readers, flock cameras in the area gas stations.
19:56
Speaker 2: Those would have been things that we would have been
19:58
Speaker 2: doing within the first h as quickly as we could,
20:01
Speaker 2: So twelve twenty four hours, we would have been canvassing
20:04
Speaker 2: those areas. We'd have been going to neighbors asking them
20:07
Speaker 2: to see if they had any videos. They would have
20:09
Speaker 2: had to have passed a lot of houses in a
20:11
Speaker 2: vehicle before they would have got there, and there's only
20:14
Speaker 2: a couple intersections they would have actually come out on,
20:17
Speaker 2: so you would have been able to really focus in
20:19
Speaker 2: on those intersections and cameras out of those intersections, and
20:23
Speaker 2: so there's a lot of things that I would have
20:25
Speaker 2: worked on. But I would have going back to your question,
20:27
Speaker 2: I would have started in an effort to clear the
20:30
Speaker 2: family and put it out to the media. Hey, we
20:32
Speaker 2: have extensively looked in and we can confidently say they
20:36
Speaker 2: are not involved, or we can say we have suspicions
20:41
Speaker 2: that we're looking into right now, and I think it
20:44
Speaker 2: eliminates a lot of doubt. But look, we're going I
20:48
Speaker 2: got to be honest and fair. We're going back now
20:52
Speaker 2: a week and we have had a lot of information
20:54
Speaker 2: that these guys are not privy to as the investigation unfolds.
20:58
Speaker 2: I'm just talking just as what we probably would have done.
21:01
Speaker 2: But obviously it's easy to say, sitting here looking back
21:05
Speaker 2: a week.
21:07
Speaker 1: Mark, do you take anything away from I'll give you
21:10
Speaker 1: an example. My mom doesn't live four miles from me,
21:12
Speaker 1: but if she did, I wouldn't have her uber to
21:14
Speaker 1: my house. I just found it to be very strange
21:16
Speaker 1: that she took an uber four miles away. Now, they
21:19
Speaker 1: or the son in law whomever dropped her off. They
21:22
Speaker 1: say at nine to thirty or whatever, after spending about
21:25
Speaker 1: four hours at her daughter an I think it's Annie's house.
21:30
Speaker 1: As an investigator, do you go, why would you have
21:33
Speaker 1: mom uber four miles to your house?
21:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. You know, Look, there's a lot
21:39
Speaker 2: of reasons. Maybe they were busy and they were gonna
21:41
Speaker 2: they you know, they were coming home at a certain time.
21:43
Speaker 2: And they wanted her to be there when they got home.
21:45
Speaker 2: I don't know. There might be some reasons, but it
21:47
Speaker 2: is a little strange that you wouldn't just drive and
21:50
Speaker 2: pick her up, and then obviously dropping her off is
21:54
Speaker 2: part of the reason why you would have to look
21:55
Speaker 2: at them, because they are the last person to see here, Joe.
21:58
Speaker 2: When we investigated crime, we look at means, opportunity and motive.
22:03
Speaker 2: The people with the most means an opportunity are oftentimes
22:06
Speaker 2: family or somebody familiar with the house, who comes over
22:09
Speaker 2: a careta, there's something, landscape or any of those types
22:12
Speaker 2: of things are going to start to be people with
22:14
Speaker 2: maybe means or opportunity. Then you look towards motive, look
22:17
Speaker 2: at bank accounts, who's on the insurance policies, who who
22:21
Speaker 2: would have a reason to look back at messages, find hers,
22:24
Speaker 2: who is messaging her? Was she having a conflict with somebody,
22:28
Speaker 2: with somebody else messaging her threatening messages. There's a lot
22:31
Speaker 2: you're going to start to unfold initially, and yeah, but
22:36
Speaker 2: it is strange to me that they would have had
22:38
Speaker 2: her uber over to the house initially.
22:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I do I find that audits Sheriff
22:42
Speaker 1: Mark lamb go to sherifflame dot com. Sherifflame dot com
22:45
Speaker 1: support is candidacy for Arizona five. As we're looking at
22:48
Speaker 1: this case, as you said, as I said, it's eight days,
22:52
Speaker 1: nine days old. Now at this point, are you are you?
22:55
Speaker 1: Is your gut as a law enforcement officer going we
22:57
Speaker 1: don't find her soon? There's no way she's stile with us.
23:00
Speaker 1: Guess again, no sign of life, doesn't have the heart medication.
23:03
Speaker 1: The pacemaker I think was synced up to the phone
23:05
Speaker 1: to or to or watch to make sure that it
23:08
Speaker 1: was regulated the right way. But are You're starting to
23:10
Speaker 1: fear for her well being at this point? You got
23:12
Speaker 1: to be at eight days no Joe.
23:14
Speaker 2: Every day that goes by that the chances of finding
23:18
Speaker 2: her alive diminish, And I think the longer you go,
23:22
Speaker 2: the more they diminish. And we're gonna find out. I mean, tonight,
23:26
Speaker 2: there's supposedly a deadline if this is a legit ransom letter.
23:29
Speaker 2: They've talked about a consequential deadline tonight. I don't know
23:33
Speaker 2: what that means consequentially, whether it's it costs you more money,
23:37
Speaker 2: or whether it's consequences as far as her health there is. Yeah,
23:44
Speaker 2: it's I think that every day goes by. I don't
23:46
Speaker 2: want to be the guy that says it, but every
23:48
Speaker 2: day that goes by, I would be if they were
23:50
Speaker 2: to find her alive at this point, Joe, I'd be shocked.
23:53
Speaker 1: Thus the desperation in Savannah Guthrie's latest video. They just
23:55
Speaker 1: happened as we're doing this interview. Let me ask you
23:57
Speaker 1: about cooperating and working with the FBI. I'm guessing that
24:00
Speaker 1: as the sheriff of Panell County you had an occasion
24:03
Speaker 1: to work with the FBI. How does that work? Do
24:05
Speaker 1: they take over a case like this is the FBI
24:08
Speaker 1: sort of going full steam ahead behind the scenes, and
24:10
Speaker 1: Nanos is still sort of the face of the of
24:13
Speaker 1: the operation. How does that work?
24:15
Speaker 2: So a missing persons is oftentimes an FBI case because
24:19
Speaker 2: it sometimes it involves across jurisdiction, interstate jurisdictions. So they
24:25
Speaker 2: are very good at this. This is why you involved
24:28
Speaker 2: the FBI. They have specialized units for kidnapping, they have
24:32
Speaker 2: specialized units for processing cell phones, computers. They have an
24:37
Speaker 2: access to programs and technology that we don't in local
24:41
Speaker 2: law enforcement. Obviously we take the case, but it's very
24:45
Speaker 2: it's very common that you would involve the FBI at
24:49
Speaker 2: an early stage, and in what turns out to be
24:52
Speaker 2: an abduction or kidnapping case, you're going to try to
24:54
Speaker 2: get them involved as soon as you can, because they're
24:57
Speaker 2: going to be able to provide a lot of help
24:59
Speaker 2: in a case like this.
25:01
Speaker 1: You know, it's really a frustrating market, and that will
25:03
Speaker 1: end it in a few minutes. I know you've got
25:04
Speaker 1: a lot of people waiting to talk to you. Thanks
25:06
Speaker 1: for always making time for my show and for me.
25:08
Speaker 1: Thank you. What jumps out at me is that we've
25:10
Speaker 1: got the best technology we've ever had in history right now,
25:13
Speaker 1: the best. I mean, I guess there is some box
25:15
Speaker 1: that the FBI can bring in and get every every
25:17
Speaker 1: text message, everything that's ever happened in that house over
25:20
Speaker 1: the last course of time. That's awesome. But with all
25:22
Speaker 1: the cameras and all the drones and all the technology
25:25
Speaker 1: and all the everything, you know, you alluded to this earlier,
25:27
Speaker 1: there's only one or two ways in and out of
25:29
Speaker 1: this neighborhood, so that that's going to limit your ability
25:31
Speaker 1: to have this. And it was twelve thirty or one
25:34
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, whatever it was, I gonna have
25:36
Speaker 1: a lot of people on the road. But with all
25:37
Speaker 1: the technology, do we really not have anything other than
25:40
Speaker 1: the circle K video? I mean, honestly, does that strike
25:43
Speaker 1: you as as weird that in this day and age
25:45
Speaker 1: we've got very little technology whatsoever available to us to
25:50
Speaker 1: help us.
25:52
Speaker 2: I'm a constitutionalist. I think that the least amount of
25:55
Speaker 2: government influence in our lives. You know, you're seeing more
25:58
Speaker 2: and more traffic cameras. You're seeing more flock cameras, fax
26:03
Speaker 2: on cameras that are at intersections and they're very useful tools.
26:07
Speaker 2: You're seeing more and more license plate readers, also very
26:11
Speaker 2: useful tools. The amount of cameras at people's houses, it
26:16
Speaker 2: is very difficult to get away with the crime, which
26:18
Speaker 2: is why I believe eventually they will find that missing
26:22
Speaker 2: piece of evidence on somebody's home camera, on a business camera,
26:27
Speaker 2: somebody that maybe doesn't realize they have it yet, or
26:30
Speaker 2: maybe the video footage of them casing the place prior
26:35
Speaker 2: to this actually occurring. Because this is not something you
26:38
Speaker 2: would just do out of on a spur of the moment.
26:41
Speaker 2: This might be something you planned ahead of time, especially
26:44
Speaker 2: as how it's been going. This leads me to believe
26:48
Speaker 2: that there was some pre planning as well, which would
26:51
Speaker 2: also open it up. So you are not only going
26:53
Speaker 2: to go back to the day that she disappeared, You're
26:55
Speaker 2: going to go back days before that, maybe a week
26:58
Speaker 2: before that, to see if a VIA had been in
27:00
Speaker 2: the area over and over again, casing the place. So
27:04
Speaker 2: this is how you start to expand the investigation. But
27:06
Speaker 2: you're right, with everything that is out there, I'm surprised
27:10
Speaker 2: that there hasn't been some piece of evidence that has
27:12
Speaker 2: broken this case. Open all the phones, all the computer stuff,
27:16
Speaker 2: all everything that we have. But at the same time,
27:19
Speaker 2: I'm also a believer in our ability to not have
27:23
Speaker 2: government interference in our lives or as minimal as possible.
27:27
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know that I agree with you
27:29
Speaker 1: on that. I'm a constitutionalist as well, and my privacy
27:32
Speaker 1: is something that I really want to hold deer. Having
27:35
Speaker 1: said that, my point is we've got a bunch of
27:38
Speaker 1: technology out there, whether you and I like it or not.
27:40
Speaker 1: I'm just a little surprised as you are that we
27:42
Speaker 1: don't have all this stuff. So let me finish with u,
27:44
Speaker 1: because you just hit on something that's really really important.
27:47
Speaker 1: I don't think somebody shows up that night, and does
27:50
Speaker 1: all of that without having some knowledge, some prior knowledge
27:54
Speaker 1: of the layout, how to get in, how to get out,
27:56
Speaker 1: how to maybe avoid the technology that's out there. Maybe
27:58
Speaker 1: you don't go by the circle case, maybe a stay
28:00
Speaker 1: away from other ring cameras that are in the same neighborhood.
28:03
Speaker 1: So does that go back to possible family and does
28:07
Speaker 1: it also go to possible You know jobbers are there,
28:10
Speaker 1: And I'll make this point. I think you've seen the
28:12
Speaker 1: overhead shots of this house, right it's a pure white,
28:15
Speaker 1: almost brand new roof. Maybe somebody was there doing roofing contracting.
28:19
Speaker 1: Do you start tracking down who's done any work at
28:22
Speaker 1: the house investigatively? Do you have to consider all of
28:25
Speaker 1: that and go back? How far do you go back
28:26
Speaker 1: a week? Do you go back three weeks? You go
28:28
Speaker 1: like a month? How do you how do you deal
28:29
Speaker 1: with that part of it?
28:31
Speaker 2: Look, because everybody you have to look into. You got
28:34
Speaker 2: to clear them. The pool people, they were looking in
28:38
Speaker 2: the septic tank yesterday, which leads me to believe they
28:40
Speaker 2: got some piece of information that would make them think
28:43
Speaker 2: that they would look into the septic tank. So there
28:45
Speaker 2: is a lot of You're gonna have the longer this
28:48
Speaker 2: goes the more you have to spread that out. But
28:50
Speaker 2: like I said in the beginning, you cast a very
28:52
Speaker 2: wide net everybody who had access to the house or
28:56
Speaker 2: who might have a reason to have kidnapped her or
28:58
Speaker 2: abducted her. You've got to look into as far as
29:01
Speaker 2: the workers at the house. I wouldn't lean towards them,
29:04
Speaker 2: but you certainly would like to vet them out and
29:07
Speaker 2: make sure that you can clear them. Part of the
29:09
Speaker 2: reason I say that is because what is the motivation there?
29:12
Speaker 2: What is their reasoning for that. This typically goes back
29:16
Speaker 2: to and I know people hate to hear this because
29:18
Speaker 2: when it's such an emotional case, you know, when people
29:21
Speaker 2: get mad, You're like, how can you blame the family?
29:23
Speaker 2: It's just the way it is. Our job is to
29:25
Speaker 2: find her, and our job is to hold people accountable
29:27
Speaker 2: who commit crimes, who victimize other people. We have to
29:31
Speaker 2: take the feelings and the emotion out, or else we
29:33
Speaker 2: won't find the people, we won't have success in closing cases. Right,
29:37
Speaker 2: and so we have to look at everything very objectively
29:40
Speaker 2: based on the evidence. And oftentimes and still to me,
29:44
Speaker 2: that still leads back to somebody who is very familiar
29:47
Speaker 2: with the house and likely.
29:49
Speaker 1: Family, Mark gut feeling, and I'll let you go because
29:52
Speaker 1: I know you've got people waiting gut feeling. Did they
29:54
Speaker 1: get her because it's Savannah Guthrie's mother, or they gut
29:57
Speaker 1: her and it just happens to be Savannah Guthrie's mother.
30:02
Speaker 2: No, I think she hasked something. I think that she
30:04
Speaker 2: doesn't have something to do with that. Let me make
30:05
Speaker 2: that very clear.
30:06
Speaker 1: Her being the daughter is somehow something to do with it.
30:10
Speaker 2: I think that her being who she is plays a
30:13
Speaker 2: role in this. I think that people knew that there
30:15
Speaker 2: was access to money. She makes a good salary. They
30:19
Speaker 2: probably thought that this would be something that they could
30:22
Speaker 2: leverage into money. Clearly, there's a reason for it, and
30:26
Speaker 2: it's most oftentimes money or you just have a real
30:31
Speaker 2: grudge with somebody, But that would have already you would
30:34
Speaker 2: be able to vet that out through messages through somebody,
30:37
Speaker 2: through Savannah's messages. That would be vetted out a lot
30:40
Speaker 2: easier than something done for money. So yeah, I think
30:45
Speaker 2: that people whoever did this, if they did indeed kidnapped her,
30:49
Speaker 2: that they knew who she was, and I think it
30:51
Speaker 2: plays a role in the motive of why they did it.
30:54
Speaker 1: Mark incredible information, man, I think some of the best
30:56
Speaker 1: that we've heard so far on this. Thank you for that.
30:58
Speaker 1: Going to check out as candidacy the strict five Republican
31:00
Speaker 1: Great State of Arizona. He's running for any big seat.
31:03
Speaker 1: Sherifflimb dot com. It's a former Panel County Sheriff, Mark Limb, Sheriff. Thanks, Samelion,
31:07
Speaker 1: appreciate you, Thank you.
31:09
Speaker 2: And the true crime is at LAMB Investigations. So we'll
31:11
Speaker 2: probably do something on this case and give our two
31:14
Speaker 2: cents of what's going on with it in a day
31:16
Speaker 2: or two.
31:17
Speaker 1: So true it say again, true Crime Investigations. What is it?
31:20
Speaker 2: It's just at LAMB Investigations. At LAMB Investigations. On YouTube,
31:25
Speaker 2: we're doing true crime videos.
31:26
Speaker 1: At LAMB Investigations. Go check it. I'm gonna go subscribe
31:29
Speaker 1: right now. Mark, Thanks, Samelion, appreciate you, Thank you.
31:32
Speaker 2: Joe.
31:33
Speaker 1: All right, that's it for shaking a nut Afraid with
31:34
Speaker 1: Joe Paggs. This time another one to drop very soon.
31:36
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe.