Latest / Deep Transformation / Waking Up the World: Being True to Life with Sounds True's Tami Simon (Part 2)

Transcript

Waking Up the World: Being True to Life with Sounds True's Tami Simon (Part 2) · Deep Transformation

0:00
Dear,
0:01
dear
0:01
listener,
0:02
hi,
0:02
this
0:02
is
0:02
John
0:03
Duque.
0:03
I
0:03
want
0:03
to
0:03
ask
0:04
a
0:04
favor
0:04
of
0:04
you.
0:05
If
0:05
you
0:05
like
0:05
the
0:06
podcast
0:06
Deep
0:07
Transformation
0:07
and
0:08
you're
0:08
getting
0:08
a
0:08
lot
0:08
out
0:08
of
0:08
it,
0:09
could
0:09
you
0:09
please
0:09
help
0:10
us
0:10
by
0:10
going
0:10
to
0:11
wherever
0:11
you
0:11
get
0:11
your
0:12
podcast,
0:12
it's
0:12
a
0:13
Spotify
0:13
or
0:13
Apple
0:14
or
0:14
wherever
0:14
it
0:15
is,
0:15
and
0:15
write,
0:16
write
0:16
a
0:16
review
0:16
that
0:17
would
0:17
really
0:17
help
0:17
us
0:17
to
0:17
get
0:18
this
0:18
out.
0:18
We
0:18
really
0:19
believe
0:19
in
0:19
what
0:19
we're
0:19
doing
0:20
and
0:20
we're
0:20
really
0:20
praying
0:21
and
0:21
hoping
0:21
this
0:21
is
0:22
helping
0:22
people
0:22
and
0:22
being
0:23
part
0:23
of
0:23
the
0:23
solution.
0:24
So
0:24
if
0:24
you
0:24
could
0:24
do
0:24
that,
0:25
it
0:25
would
0:25
be
0:25
greatly
0:26
appreciated
0:27
by
0:27
Roger,
0:27
myself
0:28
and
0:28
our
0:28
team.
0:29
God
0:29
bless.
0:29
Thank
0:29
you.
0:30
Welcome
0:31
to
0:31
part
0:31
two
0:31
of
0:32
our
0:32
deep
0:32
dive
0:33
into
0:33
the
0:33
wisdom
0:34
and
0:34
logos
0:35
of
0:35
Tammy
0:35
Simon.
0:40
Welcome
0:40
to
0:41
Deep
0:41
Transformation.
0:42
Self,
0:43
Society,
0:44
Spirit,
0:45
life
0:45
enhancing,
0:46
paradigm
0:47
rattling
0:48
conversations
0:48
with
0:49
cutting
0:49
edge
0:49
thinkers,
0:50
contemplatives
0:51
and
0:52
activists.
0:53
With
0:53
Dr.
0:53
Roger
0:54
Walsh
0:54
and
0:55
John
0:55
Dupuy,
0:56
join
0:57
us
0:57
in
0:57
the
0:57
evolutionary
0:58
fast
0:58
lane
0:59
as
0:59
we
0:59
take
0:59
a
1:00
deep
1:00
dive
1:00
into
1:01
transformational
1:02
practice.
1:04
Peak
1:05
experience,
1:06
profound
1:07
understanding,
1:08
powerful
1:09
contribution.
1:13
Tammy,
1:14
another
1:14
whole
1:15
line
1:15
of
1:15
things
1:16
that
1:16
just
1:17
absolutely
1:17
intrigued
1:18
me
1:18
are
1:19
the
1:19
fact
1:19
that
1:20
you've
1:20
probably
1:21
published
1:22
and
1:22
interviewed
1:23
as
1:23
many
1:23
people
1:24
as
1:24
almost
1:24
anyone
1:25
on
1:25
the
1:25
planet,
1:27
and
1:27
you've
1:28
interviewed,
1:28
viewed
1:28
and
1:29
promoted
1:29
some
1:30
of
1:30
the
1:30
people
1:30
who
1:30
are
1:31
really
1:32
on
1:32
the
1:32
cutting
1:33
edge
1:33
of
1:33
psychological,
1:34
cultural
1:35
and
1:36
contemplative
1:37
frontiers.
1:38
So
1:38
I
1:38
want
1:38
to
1:39
start
1:39
with
1:40
a
1:40
big
1:40
open
1:41
question,
1:41
and
1:42
that
1:42
is
1:43
who,
1:44
what
1:44
are
1:45
some
1:45
of
1:45
the
1:45
people
1:45
and
1:46
ideas
1:46
that
1:46
really
1:47
stand
1:47
out
1:47
to
1:48
you
1:48
from
1:49
all
1:49
the
1:49
people
1:49
you've
1:50
worked
1:50
with?
1:50
It's
1:51
a
1:51
good
1:51
question.
1:52
It
1:52
is.
1:52
It's
1:53
a
1:53
question
1:53
I've
1:53
been
1:53
asked
1:54
before
1:55
and
1:55
it's
1:56
hard
1:56
for
1:56
me
1:57
to
1:58
answer,
1:58
although
1:58
I
1:58
will,
1:59
I
2:00
will.
2:01
I
2:01
want
2:01
to
2:01
start
2:02
by
2:02
saying,
2:02
though,
2:03
that
2:04
one
2:05
of
2:05
the
2:05
things
2:05
I've
2:05
discovered,
2:07
and
2:07
this
2:07
is
2:08
not
2:08
a
2:08
throwaway,
2:09
it's
2:09
actually
2:10
really
2:11
something
2:12
I
2:12
have
2:12
been
2:12
surprised
2:13
by,
2:14
is
2:14
how
2:14
I've
2:15
been
2:15
able
2:15
to
2:16
learn
2:16
something
2:17
from
2:17
every
2:18
single
2:18
person
2:18
I've
2:18
interviewed.
2:19
It's
2:20
interesting
2:20
to
2:20
me,
2:21
like,
2:21
even
2:21
sometimes
2:21
I'll
2:21
be
2:22
like,
2:22
oh
2:22
God,
2:22
who's
2:22
on
2:23
my
2:23
list?
2:23
This
2:23
is
2:23
where,
2:24
you
2:24
know,
2:24
this
2:24
is
2:25
the
2:25
person
2:25
I
2:25
don't
2:26
want
2:26
to
2:26
do
2:26
this.
2:27
And
2:27
then
2:28
I
2:29
start
2:30
getting
2:30
into
2:30
it
2:30
and
2:30
I'm
2:31
like,
2:31
oh
2:31
my
2:31
God,
2:31
I'm
2:31
so
2:32
surprised.
2:33
This
2:33
is
2:33
so
2:33
interesting
2:34
to
2:34
me.
2:34
This
2:35
is
2:35
something
2:35
I'd
2:35
never
2:35
thought
2:36
of.
2:36
And
2:36
so
2:37
it's
2:37
this
2:37
willingness
2:38
to
2:39
sort
2:39
of
2:40
step
2:41
into
2:41
the
2:42
clothes
2:42
they're
2:42
wearing,
2:43
put
2:43
on
2:43
the
2:43
shoes
2:43
they're
2:44
wearing,
2:44
look
2:44
inside
2:45
their
2:45
life
2:46
experience.
2:47
And
2:47
suddenly
2:47
a
2:47
whole
2:47
new
2:48
world
2:48
has
2:48
opened
2:48
up
2:48
to
2:49
me
2:49
and
2:49
I've
2:49
really
2:49
learned
2:50
and
2:50
benefited
2:50
some
2:51
from
2:51
it.
2:51
So
2:51
that's
2:52
just
2:52
interesting
2:52
to
2:53
me
2:53
that
2:54
every
2:54
Single
2:54
interview
2:55
has
2:56
given
2:56
a
2:56
gift.
2:57
And
2:58
there's
2:58
something
2:58
analogous
2:59
in
2:59
psychotherapy,
3:01
Tammy,
3:01
and
3:01
that
3:02
is
3:02
you
3:03
can
3:03
have
3:04
somewhat
3:04
really
3:05
problematic
3:06
people
3:06
walk
3:07
into
3:07
your
3:07
room
3:08
and
3:08
the
3:08
more
3:09
you
3:09
get
3:09
to
3:09
know
3:09
them,
3:10
the
3:10
more
3:10
you
3:11
care
3:11
and
3:12
empathize
3:13
and
3:13
even
3:13
love
3:14
them
3:14
in
3:14
all
3:14
their
3:15
suffering
3:15
and
3:16
failures.
3:17
Yeah,
3:17
it's
3:17
a
3:17
beautiful
3:18
analogy
3:19
and
3:19
it
3:19
shows
3:19
you
3:19
what
3:20
an
3:20
open
3:21
hearted
3:21
therapist
3:22
can
3:22
come
3:22
to
3:22
that
3:23
discovery.
3:24
Okay,
3:25
so
3:25
now
3:25
you've
3:25
asked
3:25
me
3:25
though,
3:26
of
3:26
all
3:26
the
3:26
people
3:26
and
3:27
I
3:27
guess
3:28
I
3:28
think
3:29
of
3:29
a
3:29
few
3:29
different
3:29
things.
3:30
First,
3:30
I
3:30
want
3:30
to
3:30
share
3:31
the
3:31
story
3:31
that
3:32
in
3:32
my
3:33
own
3:33
life
3:33
journey,
3:33
I
3:34
was
3:34
recording
3:35
a
3:36
teaching
3:37
series
3:37
on
3:37
Buddhist
3:38
Tantra
3:39
with
3:40
Reggie
3:40
ray.
3:41
We
3:41
spent
3:42
10
3:42
days
3:42
in
3:42
the
3:43
studio
3:44
doing
3:45
somatic
3:46
practices
3:47
from
3:48
the
3:48
Buddhist
3:49
Vajrayana
3:50
tradition.
3:51
And
3:51
I
3:51
knew
3:51
I
3:52
needed
3:52
to
3:52
study
3:53
within
3:53
that
3:54
tradition
3:54
and
3:55
I
3:55
did
3:55
for
3:56
12
3:57
years.
3:57
And
3:57
it
3:57
was
3:58
very,
3:58
very,
3:58
very
3:59
important
3:59
to
3:59
me
4:00
in
4:01
my
4:01
own
4:01
journey.
4:02
And
4:02
that
4:02
came
4:03
not
4:03
from
4:03
an
4:03
interview,
4:04
but
4:05
it
4:05
came
4:05
from
4:06
working
4:07
on
4:07
a
4:08
12
4:09
set
4:09
CD
4:10
series
4:11
together
4:11
and
4:12
experiencing
4:14
the
4:14
somatic
4:15
bodywork
4:15
practices,
4:16
learning
4:17
how
4:17
to
4:17
drop
4:18
into
4:18
the
4:18
earth
4:19
and
4:19
the
4:19
energy
4:20
of
4:20
the
4:20
earth.
4:21
That's
4:22
where
4:22
I
4:22
discovered
4:23
this
4:23
central
4:24
channel
4:25
and
4:25
even
4:25
the
4:25
fullness
4:27
of
4:27
the
4:27
heart
4:28
space.
4:28
So
4:28
that
4:29
just
4:29
important
4:29
in
4:30
my
4:30
own
4:30
journey
4:31
from
4:31
the
4:31
interview
4:32
process,
4:33
I
4:33
met
4:34
Adyashanti.
4:35
And
4:36
that
4:37
was
4:38
extraordinarily
4:39
important
4:39
to
4:40
me
4:41
because
4:43
I've
4:44
never
4:44
met
4:44
anyone
4:46
who
4:46
had
4:48
so
4:48
much.
4:48
I
4:49
jokingly
4:49
called
4:49
him
4:50
Mr.
4:50
Goodness.
4:52
He's
4:52
the
4:52
goodest
4:54
human
4:54
I
4:55
ever
4:55
met
4:56
in
4:56
a
4:56
very,
4:56
very,
4:57
very
4:57
pure
4:58
way.
5:00
And
5:01
I
5:02
wrote
5:02
him
5:02
several
5:03
notes
5:04
and
5:04
I
5:04
said,
5:05
and
5:05
it's
5:05
true,
5:06
because
5:06
you're
5:07
here.
5:08
I
5:08
feel
5:08
I
5:09
can
5:09
be
5:09
here.
5:10
It's
5:10
a
5:10
strong
5:11
thing
5:11
to
5:11
say
5:11
to
5:12
another
5:12
human
5:13
and
5:14
especially
5:14
someone.
5:14
It's
5:15
not
5:15
like
5:15
the
5:15
person
5:15
I'm
5:16
living
5:16
with
5:16
or
5:17
you
5:17
know,
5:17
I
5:17
don't
5:17
even
5:17
have
5:17
that
5:18
much
5:18
actual
5:18
interaction
5:19
with
5:19
him.
5:20
But
5:20
just
5:20
knowing
5:21
him
5:23
and
5:24
his
5:25
sincerity
5:26
and
5:28
the
5:28
utter
5:29
purity
5:30
of
5:30
his
5:30
being
5:31
was
5:31
like
5:32
a
5:32
beacon
5:32
to
5:33
me
5:33
in
5:34
my
5:34
life
5:35
and
5:35
has
5:35
been
5:36
so
5:36
important.
5:36
So
5:36
it's
5:36
like,
5:37
was
5:37
it
5:37
because
5:37
of
5:37
the
5:37
interview
5:38
or.
5:39
No,
5:39
it
5:39
wasn't
5:40
really
5:40
that.
5:40
It
5:41
was
5:41
something
5:41
else.
5:42
And
5:42
this
5:43
is
5:43
possible,
5:43
it's
5:44
possible
5:44
for
5:44
a
5:45
human.
5:45
I
5:46
know
5:46
it's
5:46
weird
5:46
to
5:46
even
5:47
use
5:47
that
5:47
word
5:47
good,
5:48
but
5:48
to
5:48
be
5:49
so
5:51
thoroughly
5:52
generous,
5:53
thoroughly
5:54
self
5:55
reflectively
5:56
pure,
5:57
I
5:57
don't
5:57
know
5:57
if
5:57
I
5:57
have
5:57
any
5:58
other
5:58
language
5:58
for
5:59
it
5:59
that
5:59
was
6:00
hugely
6:00
important
6:00
to
6:01
me.
6:01
And
6:01
then
6:02
I'll
6:02
just
6:02
put,
6:03
well,
6:04
I
6:04
guess
6:04
I'm
6:04
going
6:04
to
6:05
have
6:05
to
6:05
say,
6:05
see
6:06
this
6:06
is
6:06
going
6:06
to
6:06
make
6:06
me
6:06
go
6:07
on
6:07
and
6:07
on.
6:07
Now,
6:07
Roger,
6:08
I'm
6:08
going
6:08
to
6:08
have
6:08
to
6:08
go
6:08
on
6:08
and
6:09
on
6:09
this
6:10
question.
6:10
But
6:10
you
6:11
know,
6:11
my
6:11
interviews
6:12
and
6:12
engagement
6:13
with
6:13
the
6:13
Diamond
6:13
Approach
6:14
and
6:14
AH
6:14
Alnus
6:15
have
6:15
been
6:15
extraordinarily
6:16
important
6:16
to
6:16
me.
6:17
And
6:18
I
6:18
always
6:18
feel
6:19
every
6:19
single
6:19
time
6:20
that
6:21
I
6:21
speak
6:22
to
6:22
Hamid
6:22
and
6:23
read
6:23
his
6:23
books
6:24
that
6:24
something
6:25
that
6:25
has
6:25
been
6:26
just
6:27
outside
6:27
of
6:28
my
6:28
awareness
6:28
or
6:29
sometimes
6:29
quite
6:29
a
6:29
bit
6:29
outside
6:30
of
6:30
my
6:30
awareness
6:30
comes
6:31
in
6:31
and
6:32
I
6:32
learn
6:32
and
6:33
grow
6:33
and
6:33
there's
6:34
an
6:34
expansion
6:35
of
6:35
my
6:36
knowledge
6:36
of
6:36
what's
6:37
possible
6:38
in
6:38
the
6:38
spiritual
6:39
universe.
6:39
So
6:39
that's
6:40
huge.
6:41
Huge.
6:41
And
6:42
I
6:42
feel
6:42
like
6:42
there's
6:42
so
6:42
much
6:42
more
6:43
to
6:43
be
6:43
discovered
6:43
there
6:44
for
6:44
me.
6:44
And
6:45
then
6:45
I've
6:46
also
6:46
had
6:47
some
6:48
very
6:48
important
6:49
interactions
6:50
with
6:51
two
6:51
other
6:52
authors
6:53
through
6:53
the
6:53
creation
6:54
of
6:54
their
6:54
recordings.
6:55
Clarissa
6:56
Pinkola
6:56
Estes
6:57
as
6:58
a
6:58
brilliant
6:58
storyteller
7:00
who
7:00
really
7:00
helped
7:01
me
7:01
come
7:01
into
7:02
the
7:03
notion
7:03
of
7:03
original
7:04
voice
7:04
and
7:05
being
7:05
one
7:05
of
7:05
a
7:06
kind
7:06
and
7:07
never
7:07
following
7:08
a
7:08
recipe
7:09
that
7:09
anyone
7:09
else
7:10
puts
7:10
out
7:10
for
7:10
you
7:11
but
7:11
being
7:12
your
7:13
one
7:13
of
7:13
a
7:13
kind
7:14
self.
7:15
And
7:15
then
7:15
I've
7:15
also
7:16
developed
7:16
quite
7:17
important
7:18
relationship
7:19
with
7:19
Carolyn
7:20
Mace,
7:21
who
7:21
is
7:22
medical
7:22
intuitive,
7:24
who
7:24
has
7:25
inspired
7:26
me
7:26
a
7:26
lot
7:26
really
7:27
about
7:27
shadow
7:28
work
7:29
and
7:30
seeing
7:31
things
7:31
that
7:31
I
7:32
didn't
7:32
see
7:33
in
7:33
my
7:33
own
7:34
personality
7:35
development.
7:35
I
7:36
always
7:36
feel
7:36
whenever
7:36
I
7:37
talk
7:37
to
7:37
her,
7:37
it's
7:37
like
7:38
I've
7:38
been
7:39
held
7:40
by
7:40
my
7:40
feet
7:40
and
7:41
shaken
7:41
upside
7:42
down
7:43
and
7:43
all
7:43
these
7:43
things
7:44
come
7:44
pouring
7:44
out
7:44
of
7:45
my
7:45
pockets
7:45
that
7:45
I
7:45
didn't
7:46
even
7:46
know
7:46
were
7:46
in
7:46
my
7:46
pockets
7:47
that
7:47
were
7:47
hidden
7:48
somewhere
7:48
deep
7:49
inside
7:49
a
7:49
pocket
7:50
of
7:50
me.
7:50
I
7:50
was
7:50
like,
7:51
I
7:51
didn't
7:51
even
7:51
know
7:51
that
7:51
was
7:51
there.
7:51
Oh,
7:52
it's
7:52
there.
7:52
It
7:53
comes
7:53
out
7:53
on
7:53
the
7:53
ground.
7:54
And
7:54
then
7:54
I'm
7:54
looking
7:54
at
7:54
it
7:55
after
7:55
we've
7:55
interacted.
7:56
So
7:56
that
7:57
gives
7:57
you
7:57
a
7:57
little
7:57
bit.
7:57
Of
7:57
a
7:58
taste
7:59
and
7:59
a
8:00
very
8:00
beautiful
8:00
taste
8:01
too.
8:01
Thank
8:01
you.
8:02
Thank
8:02
you
8:02
so
8:02
much.
8:03
And
8:03
I
8:03
think
8:04
John
8:04
and
8:04
I
8:04
would
8:04
both
8:05
want
8:05
to
8:05
say
8:05
that
8:06
we've
8:06
had
8:06
a
8:07
very
8:07
similar
8:07
experience
8:08
in
8:09
our
8:09
dialogues
8:09
with
8:10
Hamid.
8:11
It
8:11
just
8:11
has
8:11
been
8:12
transformative
8:13
in
8:13
ways
8:14
we
8:14
had
8:15
not
8:15
understood
8:15
or
8:17
anticipated.
8:18
So
8:18
there
8:18
is
8:18
something
8:19
very
8:19
transformative
8:19
about
8:20
the
8:21
study
8:21
of
8:21
his
8:22
work
8:22
and
8:23
the
8:23
dialogues
8:24
with
8:24
him.
8:24
So
8:25
yeah,
8:25
we
8:25
understand
8:26
and
8:26
you
8:26
really.
8:26
Have
8:27
to
8:27
work
8:27
at
8:27
it
8:27
because
8:27
it
8:28
ain't
8:28
easy.
8:29
You
8:29
know,
8:29
we're
8:29
doing.
8:30
What's
8:30
the
8:30
name
8:30
of
8:30
the
8:30
book
8:31
that
8:31
we're
8:31
doing?
8:31
The
8:31
Inner
8:32
Journey.
8:32
Inner
8:33
Journey
8:33
Home.
8:33
Or
8:34
as
8:34
you
8:34
call
8:34
it,
8:34
the
8:34
Endless
8:35
Journey.
8:35
I
8:35
call
8:36
the
8:36
Long
8:36
Journey
8:36
Home.
8:37
And
8:37
you
8:37
know,
8:37
just
8:38
the
8:38
first
8:38
reading
8:38
is
8:39
just
8:39
shocking.
8:40
And
8:40
then
8:41
the
8:41
more
8:41
you
8:41
work,
8:42
the
8:42
more
8:42
you
8:42
get,
8:43
the
8:43
second,
8:43
third
8:44
time
8:44
it
8:44
just
8:45
gets
8:45
deeper.
8:46
And
8:46
such
8:46
an
8:47
appreciation.
8:47
Also
8:47
wanted
8:48
to
8:48
say
8:48
about
8:48
Ajahn
8:48
Shati,
8:49
I
8:50
early
8:51
on
8:51
in
8:51
my
8:52
young
8:52
life
8:53
I
8:53
had
8:53
some
8:53
culty
8:54
type
8:54
experiences.
8:55
So
8:55
I
8:55
came
8:56
out
8:56
there
8:56
with
8:56
not
8:56
trusting
8:57
spiritual
8:57
teachers
8:57
very
8:58
Much.
8:58
I
8:58
mean,
8:58
they
8:58
had
8:59
to
8:59
prove
8:59
themselves
9:00
to
9:00
me.
9:01
And
9:01
when
9:01
I
9:01
discovered
9:02
Adyan
9:02
Shanti,
9:03
he's,
9:03
like
9:03
you
9:03
said,
9:03
his
9:04
goodness,
9:05
his
9:05
humility,
9:06
his
9:07
clarity
9:08
just
9:08
came
9:09
through.
9:09
And
9:10
some
9:10
of
9:11
my
9:11
distrust
9:12
from.
9:12
I
9:13
got
9:13
to
9:13
go
9:13
out
9:13
in
9:13
Vision
9:13
Quest
9:14
and
9:14
get
9:14
it
9:14
all
9:14
by
9:14
myself
9:15
because
9:15
I
9:15
can't
9:15
trust
9:16
anybody
9:16
to
9:16
give
9:17
me
9:17
this.
9:17
And
9:17
he
9:18
was
9:18
an
9:18
important
9:18
person
9:19
for
9:19
me.
9:19
And
9:19
of
9:19
course,
9:19
this
9:20
connections
9:21
that
9:21
we
9:21
have
9:21
with
9:21
Hamid
9:22
has
9:22
just
9:23
caused
9:23
us
9:23
both
9:23
to
9:24
grow
9:24
in
9:25
an
9:25
extraordinary
9:25
way.
9:26
And
9:26
each
9:27
time
9:27
it's
9:27
like,
9:27
I
9:27
do
9:27
my
9:28
homework,
9:28
God
9:28
help
9:28
us
9:29
not
9:29
to
9:29
screw
9:29
this
9:29
one
9:29
up,
9:30
you
9:30
know,
9:30
because
9:31
he's
9:31
an
9:31
important
9:31
man
9:32
and
9:32
he's
9:32
also
9:33
very
9:33
humble
9:34
that
9:34
it's
9:34
not
9:34
about
9:35
me.
9:35
It's
9:35
just
9:35
like
9:36
it's
9:36
what's
9:36
coming
9:36
through
9:37
me.
9:37
And
9:37
you
9:37
can
9:37
just
9:37
say
9:38
that
9:38
as
9:38
a
9:38
shtick.
9:39
Anybody
9:39
can
9:39
say
9:39
that.
9:40
But
9:40
I
9:40
really
9:40
believe
9:40
when
9:41
he
9:41
talks,
9:41
he
9:42
has
9:42
that.
9:42
That
9:43
purity
9:43
of
9:43
transmission
9:44
and
9:44
heart
9:45
and
9:45
deep
9:45
humanity
9:46
that's
9:46
just
9:47
life
9:47
enhancing,
9:48
life
9:48
changing.
9:49
Holy
9:51
Tammy
9:51
is
9:51
an
9:52
analog
9:52
of
9:52
the
9:53
corollary
9:54
of
9:54
the
9:55
people.
9:55
You've
9:55
been
9:56
exposed
9:56
to
9:56
so
9:57
many
9:58
cutting
9:58
edge
9:58
ideas.
10:00
What
10:00
are
10:00
some
10:00
of
10:00
the
10:01
ideas
10:01
that
10:01
have
10:02
most
10:02
struck
10:03
you
10:03
and
10:04
perhaps
10:04
even
10:05
continue
10:05
to
10:05
animate
10:06
you?
10:07
I
10:07
think
10:07
one
10:08
of
10:08
the
10:08
interesting
10:08
things
10:09
is
10:10
how
10:11
tremendously
10:13
free,
10:14
liberated,
10:15
visionary
10:16
someone
10:16
can
10:17
be
10:17
and
10:18
how
10:18
messed
10:19
up
10:19
they
10:19
can
10:19
be
10:19
at
10:20
the
10:20
same
10:20
time.
10:21
Yes,
10:22
boy,
10:23
ain't
10:23
that
10:23
the
10:23
truth.
10:24
And
10:24
that's
10:25
also
10:25
true
10:25
about
10:25
us.
10:26
So
10:27
it's
10:27
true
10:27
about
10:27
our
10:28
journey
10:29
and
10:29
how
10:30
I
10:30
think
10:30
in
10:30
the
10:30
beginning
10:32
I
10:32
didn't
10:32
see
10:33
that,
10:33
I
10:33
didn't
10:34
know
10:34
that.
10:34
And
10:35
it
10:35
would
10:35
always
10:36
shock
10:36
and
10:36
disappoint
10:37
me
10:38
when
10:38
I
10:38
would
10:38
discover
10:39
these
10:40
spiritual
10:40
teachers
10:41
I
10:41
was
10:41
working
10:41
with
10:41
and
10:42
the
10:42
parts
10:42
of
10:42
them
10:43
that
10:44
were
10:44
sealed
10:45
off
10:45
even
10:46
from
10:46
their
10:46
own
10:47
awareness,
10:48
that
10:48
were
10:49
their
10:49
areas
10:50
of
10:50
unconsciousness
10:52
that
10:52
created
10:52
harm
10:52
for
10:53
other
10:53
people
10:53
and
10:53
they
10:53
didn't
10:54
even
10:54
see
10:54
it.
10:54
And
10:54
yet
10:55
I
10:55
could
10:55
interact
10:55
with
10:56
other
10:56
parts
10:56
of
10:56
them
10:57
that
10:57
were
10:57
so
10:58
luminous
10:59
and
10:59
bright
11:00
and
11:01
pure.
11:01
And
11:01
I
11:01
was
11:01
like,
11:01
how
11:02
could
11:02
this
11:02
all
11:02
be?
11:02
So
11:02
I
11:03
think
11:03
the
11:03
journey
11:03
of
11:04
understanding
11:05
that
11:06
map
11:07
has
11:08
been
11:08
a
11:09
huge
11:09
one
11:10
for
11:10
me
11:10
and
11:11
has
11:11
also
11:11
given
11:12
me
11:13
a
11:13
lot
11:13
of
11:14
mercy
11:15
and
11:15
acceptance
11:16
of
11:17
my
11:17
own
11:17
path
11:18
as
11:18
a
11:18
person.
11:19
As
11:19
I
11:19
keep
11:20
discovering
11:21
parts
11:21
of
11:21
me
11:22
that
11:22
have
11:22
yet
11:23
to
11:23
come
11:23
into
11:24
consciousness
11:25
that
11:26
are
11:27
coming
11:27
forth
11:27
now
11:28
here
11:28
in
11:28
my
11:29
60s,
11:29
to
11:30
be
11:30
seen
11:30
and
11:31
healed
11:32
and,
11:33
oh,
11:33
okay,
11:34
that's
11:34
okay.
11:35
That's
11:35
what
11:35
we're
11:36
doing
11:36
here.
11:36
And
11:36
I
11:36
think
11:37
I
11:37
didn't
11:37
know
11:37
that
11:38
early
11:38
on.
11:39
That's
11:39
such
11:39
an
11:39
important
11:40
realization,
11:41
particularly
11:41
in
11:42
life
11:42
in
11:42
general,
11:43
but
11:43
especially
11:43
for
11:44
anyone
11:44
who
11:44
takes
11:45
up
11:45
a
11:45
spiritual
11:46
practice
11:47
because
11:47
there's
11:47
such
11:48
a
11:48
tendency
11:48
to
11:49
idealize
11:51
in
11:51
multiple
11:51
ways
11:52
to
11:52
idealize
11:53
teachers,
11:53
to
11:53
idealize
11:54
the
11:55
goal.
11:55
I
11:55
hate
11:56
the
11:56
word
11:56
enlightenment,
11:57
but
11:57
I'll
11:57
use
11:57
it.
11:57
What
11:58
enlightenment,
11:58
what
11:59
awakening,
11:59
what
11:59
opening
12:00
is?
12:01
And
12:02
it
12:02
feels
12:02
like
12:03
such
12:03
an
12:03
important
12:04
realization
12:05
to
12:05
remember
12:05
that,
12:06
you
12:06
know,
12:06
religions
12:07
are
12:07
problematic
12:08
because
12:08
they're
12:08
practiced
12:08
by
12:09
people,
12:10
and
12:10
people
12:12
we
12:12
are
12:12
endlessly,
12:14
we're
12:14
bottomless,
12:14
endless,
12:15
et
12:15
cetera.
12:16
And
12:16
there's
12:17
always
12:17
more.
12:18
There's
12:18
always
12:18
problematic
12:19
areas
12:20
that
12:20
remain
12:21
to
12:21
be
12:21
illumined
12:22
and
12:23
healed
12:23
and
12:24
worked
12:24
through.
12:25
And
12:25
you're
12:26
right,
12:26
it
12:26
does
12:26
bring
12:26
a
12:27
certain
12:27
compassion
12:28
for
12:28
ourselves
12:28
and
12:29
others,
12:29
but
12:30
also
12:30
feels
12:30
very
12:31
important
12:31
because
12:31
a
12:32
lot
12:32
of
12:32
problems
12:32
come
12:33
from
12:33
the
12:33
idealization
12:34
of
12:34
teachers
12:35
and
12:35
from
12:35
the
12:36
path.
12:37
And
12:37
Tammy
12:37
has
12:38
that
12:38
what
12:38
you're
12:38
talking
12:39
about,
12:39
having
12:40
compassion
12:40
for
12:41
these
12:41
teachers
12:41
who
12:42
have,
12:42
you
12:42
know,
12:42
some
12:43
lines
12:43
that
12:43
are
12:43
extremely
12:44
well
12:44
developed
12:44
to
12:44
talk
12:45
in
12:45
integral
12:45
terms
12:45
and
12:46
others
12:46
not.
12:46
Have
12:46
you
12:47
been
12:47
able
12:47
to
12:47
transfer
12:48
that
12:48
to
12:48
just
12:49
the
12:49
human
12:49
family
12:49
as
12:50
a
12:50
whole?
12:51
You
12:51
know,
12:51
that
12:51
we
12:51
do
12:51
these
12:52
incredibly
12:52
beautiful
12:53
things
12:53
at
12:53
the
12:53
same
12:53
time
12:54
we
12:54
do
12:54
monstrous,
12:55
horrible
12:55
things.
12:56
Does
12:56
that
12:56
spread
12:57
from
12:57
the
12:57
individual
12:58
to
12:58
the
12:58
bigger
12:59
picture?
13:00
I
13:00
think
13:00
so,
13:02
yeah.
13:03
And
13:03
I
13:04
think
13:04
not
13:05
having
13:05
an
13:06
idealized
13:08
fantasy
13:09
for
13:09
ourselves,
13:10
I
13:10
think
13:10
that's
13:11
also
13:11
what
13:12
I
13:12
was
13:12
trying
13:12
to
13:13
point
13:13
to.
13:15
So
13:15
it's,
13:16
yes,
13:17
compassion
13:17
for
13:18
other
13:18
people
13:18
and
13:19
for
13:19
the
13:19
whole
13:20
process
13:21
of
13:21
the
13:21
world.
13:21
And
13:22
evolution
13:22
and
13:23
our
13:23
souls.
13:24
Evolution
13:25
seems
13:26
a
13:26
safe
13:26
assumption
13:27
that
13:27
there
13:27
are
13:27
always
13:29
parts
13:30
of
13:30
the
13:30
shadow,
13:31
hidden
13:32
elements
13:32
of
13:32
our
13:33
psyche,
13:34
our
13:34
depths,
13:35
etc.
13:35
That
13:36
remain
13:37
to
13:37
be
13:37
discovered.
13:37
I
13:38
have
13:38
great
13:38
appreciation
13:39
for
13:39
one
13:39
of
13:39
the
13:39
things
13:40
Amid
13:40
says
13:41
with
13:41
all
13:41
his
13:41
realizations
13:42
and
13:43
openings,
13:43
et
13:43
cetera,
13:44
but
13:45
delusion
13:46
always
13:46
remains,
13:47
which
13:47
is
13:48
a
13:48
very
13:48
different
13:48
stance
13:49
from
13:49
most
13:50
contemplative
13:51
traditions,
13:51
most
13:52
spiritual
13:52
traditions
13:53
there
13:53
is,
13:53
which
13:54
they
13:54
tend
13:55
to
13:55
be
13:55
idealistic.
13:56
And
13:57
I
13:57
think
13:57
we
13:57
probably
13:57
need
13:58
to
13:58
acknowledge
13:58
that
13:59
one
13:59
of
13:59
the
13:59
contemporary
14:00
edges
14:00
of
14:00
our
14:01
time
14:01
is
14:02
this
14:02
bringing
14:03
together
14:03
both
14:04
psychological
14:04
and
14:04
spiritual
14:06
perspectives
14:06
and
14:06
approaches,
14:07
because
14:08
it's
14:08
become
14:09
very
14:10
clear
14:10
that
14:10
we
14:10
will.
14:11
We
14:11
have
14:11
been
14:12
transmitted
14:13
very
14:13
idealized
14:14
narratives
14:15
and
14:15
myths
14:16
about
14:17
the
14:17
spiritual
14:18
life
14:19
and
14:19
the
14:20
nature
14:20
of
14:20
realization.
14:21
And
14:21
that
14:22
partly
14:22
that's
14:23
solidization,
14:24
partly
14:24
it's
14:24
an
14:24
idealization,
14:25
but
14:25
partly
14:26
it's
14:26
a
14:26
result
14:27
of
14:27
ignorance
14:28
that
14:28
only
14:29
very
14:29
recently
14:30
have
14:30
we
14:30
had
14:30
the
14:31
psychological
14:32
tools
14:32
to
14:33
identify
14:34
psychological
14:35
defenses
14:36
and
14:37
psychodynamics
14:38
and
14:39
aspects
14:39
of
14:39
the
14:39
psyche
14:40
which
14:40
don't
14:41
come
14:41
into
14:42
awareness
14:42
in.
14:43
In
14:43
meditative
14:44
experience.
14:45
Well
14:46
said,
14:46
Roger.
14:48
And
14:48
where
14:49
do
14:49
you.
14:50
Is
14:50
there
14:50
somewhere
14:51
you
14:51
take
14:51
that.
14:53
You
14:53
know,
14:53
I
14:53
think
14:54
the.
14:54
The
14:55
wholeness
14:58
of
15:00
spiritual
15:01
vision
15:02
and
15:02
psychological
15:03
health
15:05
is
15:05
something
15:06
that
15:06
I
15:06
spend
15:07
a
15:07
lot
15:07
of
15:07
time
15:08
with
15:09
as
15:09
a
15:09
person.
15:10
And,
15:11
you
15:11
know,
15:11
I
15:11
remember
15:12
when
15:12
I
15:13
first
15:14
interviewed
15:15
Hamid,
15:15
I
15:15
said
15:16
the
15:16
diamond
15:16
approach
15:17
brings
15:17
psychology
15:18
and
15:19
Spirituality
15:19
together.
15:20
And
15:20
he
15:21
said,
15:21
who
15:21
took
15:21
them
15:21
apart,
15:22
Tammy?
15:23
And
15:23
I
15:23
said,
15:24
wow,
15:24
that's
15:24
such
15:24
a
15:24
funny
15:25
answer.
15:25
That's
15:26
such
15:26
an
15:26
interesting
15:27
answer.
15:27
Who
15:27
took
15:27
them
15:28
apart?
15:29
And
15:29
I
15:29
think
15:29
what
15:30
I
15:30
love
15:30
about
15:30
the
15:31
diamond
15:32
approach
15:32
is
15:33
how
15:33
they
15:34
seamlessly
15:35
come
15:35
together
15:36
in
15:37
the
15:37
model
15:39
where
15:39
it's
15:40
the
15:40
theory
15:41
of
15:41
wholes,
15:42
this
15:42
part
15:43
of
15:43
us
15:44
where
15:44
we
15:44
separated
15:45
from
15:45
our
15:46
essence
15:47
early
15:47
in
15:47
our
15:48
life,
15:49
and
15:49
this
15:49
created
15:51
the
15:51
hole
15:51
in
15:52
us
15:52
that
15:52
we're
15:52
trying
15:53
to
15:53
fill
15:54
with
15:54
in
15:54
our
15:54
outer
15:55
life,
15:55
but
15:55
ultimately
15:56
has
15:56
to
15:56
be
15:56
filled
15:57
with
15:57
our
15:57
essential
15:57
nature.
15:58
So
15:58
that's
15:58
the
15:59
diamond
15:59
approach
16:00
idea.
16:00
But
16:00
now
16:00
I'm
16:01
going
16:01
to
16:01
go
16:01
over
16:01
to
16:01
another
16:02
Sounds
16:02
True
16:02
author
16:03
whose
16:03
work
16:04
I
16:04
quite
16:04
like,
16:05
Bruce
16:05
Tift,
16:06
who's
16:06
a
16:07
Buddhist
16:07
psychotherapist.
16:08
We
16:08
published
16:08
a
16:09
book
16:09
with
16:09
him
16:09
called
16:10
Already
16:10
Free,
16:11
and
16:11
he
16:12
talks
16:12
about
16:12
how
16:13
there
16:13
is
16:14
both
16:14
a
16:14
fruitional
16:16
spiritual
16:17
vision
16:17
and
16:17
the
16:18
developmental
16:18
work
16:19
of
16:20
psychotherapy
16:21
and
16:22
how
16:22
these
16:23
two
16:24
approaches
16:25
can
16:26
coexist
16:26
without
16:27
any
16:27
hope
16:27
of
16:28
resolution.
16:29
You
16:29
can
16:30
alternate
16:30
between
16:31
working
16:31
between
16:32
these
16:32
two
16:33
different
16:34
ways
16:34
of
16:35
working
16:35
with
16:36
yourself
16:36
and
16:36
growing
16:37
without
16:38
any
16:38
hope
16:38
that
16:38
they'll
16:39
ever
16:39
come
16:39
together
16:40
in
16:40
a
16:40
coherent
16:41
model.
16:42
And
16:42
I
16:42
remember
16:43
sharing
16:43
with
16:43
him,
16:43
well,
16:43
what
16:43
about
16:44
the
16:44
diamond
16:44
approach?
16:44
And
16:44
there
16:45
are
16:45
other
16:45
people
16:45
that
16:45
have
16:45
these
16:46
coherent
16:46
models.
16:47
And
16:47
he's
16:47
like,
16:48
maybe,
16:49
maybe,
16:50
maybe
16:50
not.
16:51
Maybe
16:52
it's
16:52
an
16:52
alternation,
16:53
Tammy.
16:54
And
16:55
here
16:55
I
16:55
am,
16:55
the
16:56
kind
16:56
of
16:56
person
16:57
I've
16:57
stayed
16:57
open.
16:59
I
16:59
don't
16:59
know.
17:00
You
17:00
know,
17:00
Roger,
17:00
in
17:00
the
17:01
beginning
17:01
of
17:01
our
17:01
conversation,
17:02
you
17:02
said
17:02
whatever
17:03
it
17:03
is
17:03
we
17:03
can
17:03
discover
17:04
is
17:04
far
17:04
beyond
17:05
our
17:06
capacity
17:06
to
17:06
imagine
17:07
what
17:07
it
17:07
is
17:07
right
17:08
now.
17:08
I
17:08
don't
17:08
know.
17:09
I
17:09
don't
17:09
know.
17:10
I
17:10
don't
17:10
know.
17:11
I'm
17:11
just
17:11
talking
17:12
to
17:12
you
17:12
all
17:12
straight
17:13
from
17:13
the
17:13
truth
17:14
of
17:14
me.
17:15
What
17:15
I
17:15
do
17:15
know,
17:16
and
17:16
this
17:16
is
17:16
the
17:16
deep
17:17
respect
17:17
I
17:17
have
17:18
for
17:18
quote,
17:18
unquote
17:19
goodness,
17:20
is
17:20
that
17:21
if
17:21
our
17:21
spiritual
17:22
vision
17:22
doesn't
17:23
translate
17:24
into
17:25
treating
17:25
ourselves
17:26
and
17:26
other
17:26
people
17:27
and
17:27
the
17:27
environment
17:28
and
17:28
the
17:28
world
17:29
well
17:29
and
17:29
building
17:30
a
17:30
just
17:30
society,
17:31
I'm
17:31
not
17:32
interested
17:32
in
17:33
it.
17:33
That's
17:34
what
17:34
I'm
17:34
interested
17:35
in.
17:35
I'm
17:36
interested
17:36
in
17:36
something
17:37
that
17:37
goes
17:37
all
17:38
the
17:38
way
17:38
through.
17:40
That's
17:40
what
17:41
matters
17:41
to
17:41
me.
17:42
And
17:42
the
17:43
litmus
17:43
test
17:44
is
17:44
always,
17:45
to
17:45
me,
17:46
somebody's
17:47
wake.
17:48
What's
17:48
behind
17:49
them,
17:49
their
17:49
behavior,
17:50
the
17:51
ripples
17:52
of
17:52
their
17:52
life
17:53
and
17:53
how
17:53
they've
17:54
impacted
17:55
others
17:55
and
17:56
the
17:56
beauty
17:57
and
17:57
love
17:58
and
17:58
justice
17:59
that
17:59
lives
17:59
in
17:59
the
17:59
wake
18:00
of
18:00
a
18:00
person.
18:01
So
18:01
I'm
18:01
interested
18:02
in
18:02
that
18:02
kind
18:02
of
18:02
wholeness.
18:03
And
18:04
for
18:04
me,
18:04
it
18:04
obviously
18:05
requires
18:06
both
18:06
a
18:07
lot
18:07
of
18:07
psychological
18:08
work
18:08
and
18:08
a
18:09
lot
18:09
of
18:09
spiritual
18:09
insight.
18:10
And
18:11
I'm
18:11
very
18:12
curious
18:12
how
18:13
they
18:13
weave
18:14
together
18:14
into
18:14
a
18:15
comprehensive
18:15
model.
18:16
And
18:16
maybe
18:17
they
18:17
don't.
18:19
And
18:19
Maybe
18:20
it's
18:20
a
18:20
both.
18:21
And
18:21
as
18:21
so
18:21
many
18:21
things
18:22
are,
18:22
and
18:23
they
18:23
weave
18:23
together
18:23
partly.
18:24
And
18:25
they
18:25
have
18:25
their
18:26
separate
18:26
dynamics
18:27
and
18:27
trajectories.
18:29
Yeah.
18:29
But
18:29
I
18:30
love
18:30
that
18:31
you're
18:31
open
18:32
to
18:32
all
18:32
possibilities
18:33
and
18:34
don't
18:34
know
18:34
is
18:34
a
18:35
magical
18:35
word
18:35
and
18:36
magical
18:36
phrase
18:37
in
18:37
life.
18:37
It
18:38
undoes
18:39
so
18:39
many
18:39
problems.
18:40
You
18:40
can
18:40
call
18:41
that
18:41
the
18:41
title
18:41
of
18:42
my
18:42
deep
18:43
transformation
18:44
podcast.
18:45
Tammy.
18:46
Don't
18:46
know.
18:47
Simon.
18:48
There
18:48
you
18:48
go.
18:49
That's
18:50
next.
18:50
Well,
18:50
let
18:51
me.
18:51
You
18:51
feel
18:51
to
18:52
me
18:52
pretty
18:52
integrated,
18:53
Tammy,
18:54
that
18:54
put
18:55
all
18:55
these
18:55
things
18:55
together
18:56
and
18:56
you
18:57
are,
18:58
you
18:58
know,
18:58
Jesus
18:58
said,
18:58
wherefore
18:59
by
18:59
the
18:59
fruits
18:59
you
19:00
shall
19:00
know
19:00
them.
19:00
So
19:01
you
19:01
bring
19:01
it
19:02
together.
19:02
And
19:02
just
19:03
to
19:03
me,
19:03
impressive.
19:04
And
19:04
Roger
19:05
and
19:05
I
19:05
are
19:05
basically
19:05
rookies
19:06
at
19:06
doing
19:06
this
19:06
kind
19:07
of
19:07
thing.
19:07
We've
19:07
been
19:07
doing
19:07
how
19:07
long,
19:08
Roger?
19:08
Three
19:08
years
19:09
doing
19:09
these
19:09
conversations
19:10
and
19:10
something
19:10
like
19:11
that.
19:11
And
19:12
been
19:12
doing
19:12
it
19:12
such
19:12
a
19:13
long
19:13
time.
19:14
And
19:14
it
19:15
obviously
19:15
has
19:16
been
19:17
a
19:17
path
19:18
for
19:18
you
19:18
and
19:19
kept
19:19
transforming
19:20
you.
19:20
And
19:20
you
19:20
have
19:20
this.
19:21
You
19:21
have
19:21
this
19:21
passion
19:22
and
19:22
openness
19:23
and
19:23
beauty
19:23
and
19:24
love
19:24
that
19:25
comes
19:25
through.
19:26
And
19:26
I
19:26
guess
19:26
that
19:26
would
19:27
lead
19:27
into
19:27
a
19:27
question
19:28
after
19:28
all
19:28
of
19:28
these
19:28
years
19:29
of
19:29
doing
19:29
sounds
19:30
true.
19:30
And
19:31
connection
19:31
with
19:32
all
19:32
these
19:32
extraordinary
19:33
teachers,
19:34
what's
19:34
the
19:34
current
19:34
state
19:35
of
19:35
your
19:35
practice?
19:36
What
19:36
does
19:36
Tammy
19:36
Simon
19:37
do
19:37
now
19:37
to
19:38
just
19:39
honor
19:39
that
19:40
universe
19:40
within
19:41
a
19:41
better
19:42
Tammy,
19:42
if
19:42
you
19:43
will,
19:43
and
19:44
to
19:45
be
19:45
a
19:45
channel
19:45
of
19:46
what
19:46
you're
19:46
obviously
19:47
coming.
19:48
Through
19:48
here
19:50
at
19:50
a
19:51
certain
19:51
point.
19:51
I'm
19:52
going
19:52
to
19:52
answer
19:52
your
19:52
question,
19:52
John,
19:53
but
19:53
I'm
19:53
going
19:53
to
19:53
do
19:53
it
19:54
through
19:54
this
19:54
story
19:54
I
19:55
was
19:55
recording
19:56
with
19:57
Sally
19:57
Kempton,
19:59
meditation
20:00
teacher,
20:01
and
20:02
we
20:02
had
20:02
published
20:02
a
20:02
book
20:03
with
20:03
her
20:03
meditation
20:04
for
20:04
the
20:05
Love
20:05
of
20:05
It.
20:06
And
20:06
she
20:06
was
20:06
talking
20:07
about
20:07
how
20:08
this
20:08
is
20:08
what
20:08
I
20:08
discovered
20:09
in
20:09
the
20:09
conversation
20:10
that
20:11
she
20:12
teaches
20:14
and
20:14
approaches
20:15
meditation
20:16
and
20:16
now
20:17
taught
20:18
meditation,
20:19
bless
20:19
her
20:19
soul,
20:20
Sally,
20:21
differently
20:22
to
20:22
people
20:23
before
20:24
Kundalini
20:25
awakening
20:25
and
20:26
then
20:26
after
20:26
Kundalini
20:27
awakening.
20:28
And
20:28
I
20:28
just
20:29
want
20:29
to
20:29
explain
20:29
a
20:29
little
20:29
bit
20:30
about
20:30
how
20:30
I
20:30
understood
20:31
this,
20:31
which
20:32
is
20:32
before
20:33
people
20:34
have
20:34
this
20:34
sense
20:36
of
20:36
the
20:37
inner
20:37
shakti,
20:38
or
20:38
you
20:38
could
20:38
say
20:39
inner
20:39
teacher.
20:40
Or
20:40
when
20:41
I
20:41
talked
20:41
about
20:41
that
20:42
notion
20:42
of
20:42
integrity,
20:44
that
20:44
river
20:45
of
20:45
energy
20:46
running
20:46
inside
20:47
the
20:47
body
20:47
that
20:47
you
20:48
can
20:48
return
20:48
to,
20:49
that
20:50
regular
20:50
practice
20:51
is
20:52
so
20:52
helpful
20:53
in,
20:53
in
20:54
a
20:54
type
20:54
of
20:54
disciplined
20:55
way,
20:56
because
20:56
you're
20:56
basically
20:57
lost.
20:57
You
20:57
don't
20:58
have
20:58
an
20:58
inner
20:59
resource
21:00
that
21:00
you
21:00
can
21:00
go
21:01
to.
21:01
But
21:02
afterwards,
21:03
once
21:04
that
21:04
sense
21:05
of,
21:05
you
21:05
know,
21:06
there's
21:06
lots
21:06
of
21:06
words
21:06
for
21:07
it.
21:07
I've
21:07
said
21:07
shakti,
21:08
or
21:08
the
21:08
goddess
21:09
inside,
21:09
or
21:09
an
21:10
inner
21:10
teacher,
21:10
the
21:10
one
21:11
who
21:11
knows
21:11
once
21:12
that's
21:12
available
21:13
to
21:13
you
21:13
and
21:13
you
21:14
can
21:14
just
21:14
sit
21:14
and
21:14
tune
21:15
into
21:15
it
21:15
and
21:15
it's
21:16
like
21:16
right
21:16
there
21:16
you
21:17
have
21:17
a
21:17
resource.
21:18
And
21:18
for
21:19
me,
21:19
what
21:19
I
21:19
discovered
21:20
was
21:20
that
21:21
at
21:21
a
21:21
Certain
21:21
point
21:21
in
21:22
my
21:23
practice
21:24
life,
21:26
it
21:26
didn't
21:26
make
21:27
sense
21:27
to
21:27
me
21:27
and
21:28
it
21:28
felt
21:28
forced
21:29
to
21:29
follow
21:30
a
21:30
kind
21:30
of
21:31
disciplined
21:31
approach
21:32
where
21:32
I'm
21:32
going
21:33
to
21:33
wake
21:33
up
21:33
at
21:33
this
21:34
time
21:34
and
21:34
do
21:35
this
21:35
meditation
21:36
and
21:36
check
21:36
my
21:36
body.
21:37
I
21:37
did
21:37
that
21:37
for
21:37
a
21:37
long
21:38
time
21:38
and
21:38
I
21:38
went
21:38
on
21:39
a
21:39
lot
21:39
of
21:39
intensive
21:40
retreats
21:40
and
21:41
it
21:41
felt
21:41
natural
21:42
and
21:42
I
21:42
felt
21:42
called
21:43
to
21:43
it.
21:43
And
21:44
then
21:44
later
21:44
in
21:45
my
21:45
life,
21:45
I
21:45
felt,
21:46
oh,
21:46
actually
21:47
there's
21:47
a
21:47
resource
21:48
inside
21:48
of
21:48
me
21:49
and
21:49
what
21:49
I
21:49
need
21:49
to
21:50
do
21:50
right
21:50
now
21:51
in
21:51
this
21:51
moment,
21:51
on
21:51
the
21:52
spot
21:52
is
21:53
sit
21:53
and
21:53
be
21:54
with
21:54
my
21:55
internal
21:57
intelligent
21:58
nature
21:58
and
21:58
find
21:59
out
21:59
what's
21:59
needed
21:59
right
22:00
now.
22:01
What's
22:01
needed?
22:02
Oh,
22:02
what's
22:02
needed
22:02
is
22:03
I
22:03
have
22:03
to
22:03
go
22:03
talk
22:03
to
22:03
my
22:03
wife
22:04
about
22:04
something
22:04
because
22:05
I
22:05
think
22:05
what
22:05
I
22:06
said
22:06
earlier
22:06
was
22:07
very
22:07
misleading
22:08
and
22:09
I
22:09
need
22:09
to
22:09
go
22:09
have
22:10
that
22:10
conversation.
22:10
Oh,
22:11
what's
22:11
needed
22:11
is
22:11
I
22:12
need
22:12
to
22:12
lie
22:12
down
22:12
and
22:12
take
22:13
a
22:13
nap.
22:13
Oh,
22:14
I
22:14
need
22:14
to
22:14
go
22:14
for
22:14
a
22:15
walk.
22:15
I
22:15
need
22:15
to
22:15
go
22:15
to
22:15
bed
22:16
early
22:16
tonight.
22:17
I
22:17
need
22:17
to
22:18
write
22:18
a
22:18
long
22:19
letter
22:19
to
22:20
somebody.
22:21
What's
22:21
needed
22:22
now?
22:23
And
22:23
so
22:23
my
22:24
quote
22:24
unquote,
22:25
practice
22:26
has
22:27
become
22:27
more
22:28
of
22:28
an
22:28
on
22:29
the
22:29
spot.
22:30
What
22:30
is
22:31
needed
22:31
now?
22:32
By
22:32
tuning
22:32
in
22:33
and
22:34
listening
22:34
and
22:35
then
22:35
responding
22:36
to
22:36
what
22:36
I
22:37
hear.
22:38
Yeah,
22:39
beautiful.
22:40
Yeah,
22:41
It's
22:42
a
22:42
moment
22:42
by
22:43
moment,
22:43
touching
22:44
in
22:44
and
22:45
into
22:46
oneself
22:46
and
22:47
into
22:47
the
22:47
moment
22:47
and
22:47
feeling
22:48
what's
22:48
called
22:48
for
22:49
and.
22:50
Yeah,
22:50
very
22:51
beautiful.
22:51
And
22:52
that
22:52
sometime
22:53
in
22:54
the
22:54
discussions
22:55
of
22:55
wisdom
22:55
that
22:56
are
22:56
going
22:56
on
22:56
now
22:57
in
22:57
the
22:58
research
22:58
community,
22:59
there's
22:59
the
22:59
understanding,
23:00
practical
23:00
wisdom.
23:01
Well,
23:02
more
23:02
deep,
23:02
far
23:03
more
23:03
deeply.
23:03
In
23:03
the
23:04
Confucian
23:04
tradition,
23:05
the
23:06
definition
23:06
of
23:07
practical
23:07
wisdom
23:08
is
23:08
in
23:08
terms
23:08
of.
23:09
Yeah,
23:09
the
23:10
idea
23:10
of
23:11
responding
23:12
appropriately
23:14
in
23:14
each
23:14
moment.
23:14
And
23:15
there's
23:15
a
23:15
beautiful
23:16
question,
23:16
the
23:17
Zen
23:17
tradition,
23:18
what
23:18
is
23:18
it
23:18
the
23:18
Buddhas
23:19
and
23:19
Bodhisattvas
23:20
are
23:20
doing
23:21
in
23:21
each
23:21
moment?
23:22
And
23:22
the
23:22
response
23:23
is
23:23
acting
23:24
appropriately.
23:25
Anyway,
23:26
I
23:26
just
23:26
wanted
23:26
to
23:26
reflect
23:27
on
23:27
what
23:27
you
23:27
said,
23:27
Tammy.
23:27
I
23:27
was
23:28
very
23:28
touched
23:28
by
23:28
that
23:29
idea.
23:29
I
23:29
mean,
23:30
you
23:32
not
23:32
been
23:33
a
23:34
lazy
23:34
person,
23:34
let's
23:34
say,
23:35
as
23:35
far
23:35
as
23:35
spiritual
23:35
practice.
23:36
You
23:36
put
23:36
years
23:36
into
23:37
it,
23:37
but
23:37
you
23:38
opened
23:38
up
23:38
that
23:38
place,
23:39
the
23:39
wisdom
23:40
voice.
23:40
Sometimes
23:41
I
23:41
call
23:41
it,
23:41
you
23:41
know,
23:41
where
23:41
you
23:42
can
23:42
just.
23:43
Okay.
23:44
There's
23:44
a
23:44
lot
23:44
of
23:45
different
23:45
traditions
23:45
that
23:45
talk
23:46
about
23:46
that,
23:46
but
23:47
I've
23:47
experienced
23:48
it
23:48
at
23:48
times,
23:48
not
23:49
always,
23:49
but
23:50
when
23:50
you
23:50
just
23:50
have
23:50
that
23:50
sense
23:51
of
23:51
kind
23:51
of,
23:52
okay,
23:53
that's
23:53
it.
23:54
I
23:54
know
23:54
what
23:54
I'm
23:54
supposed
23:55
to
23:55
do
23:55
now.
23:55
It's
23:55
very
23:55
clear.
23:56
And
23:56
I
23:56
know
23:56
what
23:57
I'm
23:57
supposed
23:57
to
23:57
say
23:57
to
23:57
this
23:58
person.
23:58
And
23:58
I
23:58
want
23:58
to
23:59
add
23:59
in
24:00
something
24:00
which
24:01
is
24:01
being
24:02
sensitive
24:03
to
24:04
the
24:04
feedback
24:05
of
24:05
others
24:05
in
24:06
our
24:06
environment
24:07
as
24:07
part
24:07
of
24:07
that
24:07
process,
24:09
because
24:09
I
24:09
find
24:10
that
24:11
the
24:11
world
24:12
is
24:12
always
24:13
Saying
24:14
what's
24:14
needed
24:15
right
24:15
now
24:16
in
24:16
terms
24:16
of
24:16
acting
24:16
appropriately.
24:17
Well,
24:17
what's
24:18
needed,
24:18
yes,
24:19
there's
24:19
the
24:19
internal
24:20
asking,
24:21
but
24:21
there's
24:21
also
24:22
simply
24:22
paying
24:22
attention
24:24
to
24:24
what
24:24
is
24:25
being
24:25
said
24:25
to
24:26
us
24:26
in
24:26
our
24:27
environment
24:27
and
24:28
being
24:28
willing
24:29
to
24:29
pay
24:29
attention.
24:30
I
24:30
think
24:30
the
24:30
people
24:31
we
24:31
work
24:31
with
24:32
and
24:33
our
24:33
intimate
24:34
partners
24:34
and
24:34
friends,
24:35
they
24:36
often
24:36
have
24:37
really
24:37
important
24:38
messages
24:39
for
24:39
us
24:39
to
24:39
attend
24:40
to.
24:41
And
24:41
when
24:42
you
24:42
listen
24:42
to
24:42
people
24:42
that
24:43
way,
24:43
it
24:43
opens
24:43
up
24:44
something
24:44
in
24:44
them.
24:44
They
24:44
can
24:45
sense
24:45
it.
24:45
Most
24:46
people
24:46
anyway,
24:47
you
24:47
know,
24:47
it
24:47
just
24:47
starts.
24:48
Some
24:49
kind
24:49
of
24:49
field
24:50
is
24:50
created
24:50
or
24:50
some
24:50
kind
24:51
of
24:51
flow
24:51
is
24:51
created
24:51
and
24:52
it's.
24:52
Yeah,
24:53
if
24:53
anything
24:53
that
24:53
we've
24:53
learned,
24:54
I
24:54
think
24:54
from
24:55
this
24:55
podcasting,
24:56
talking
24:57
with
24:57
these
24:57
amazing
24:57
people,
24:58
including
24:58
yourself,
24:59
is
24:59
just
25:00
to
25:00
deeply
25:00
listen,
25:01
you
25:01
know,
25:01
and
25:02
people
25:02
can
25:03
sense
25:03
it
25:03
when
25:03
you're
25:04
there,
25:04
respectfully,
25:05
just
25:06
open.
25:07
You're
25:07
not
25:07
just
25:08
closed
25:08
down
25:09
and
25:09
trying
25:09
to
25:10
get
25:10
your
25:10
own
25:10
ideas
25:10
or
25:11
control
25:11
in
25:11
the
25:11
moment
25:12
or
25:12
something.
25:12
It's
25:12
very,
25:13
it's
25:13
very
25:13
transformative.
25:14
It's
25:15
very,
25:15
very
25:15
important.
25:16
And
25:16
I
25:16
think
25:16
part
25:16
of
25:16
the
25:17
reason
25:17
I
25:17
wanted
25:17
to
25:17
emphasize
25:18
that
25:18
is
25:19
when
25:19
it's
25:19
this
25:19
notion
25:20
of
25:20
life
25:21
being
25:21
your
25:21
teacher,
25:22
like
25:23
what
25:23
does
25:23
that
25:23
actually
25:23
mean?
25:24
Well,
25:25
look
25:25
around
25:26
and
25:26
the
25:26
people
25:27
closest
25:27
to
25:27
you
25:27
and
25:28
listen
25:28
to
25:28
them
25:28
and
25:29
life
25:29
will
25:29
be
25:29
your
25:29
teacher.
25:31
Yeah,
25:32
yeah.
25:33
Particularly
25:34
intimate
25:35
partners.
25:35
That's
25:35
as
25:36
you
25:36
implied
25:36
before,
25:37
that's
25:37
the
25:37
advanced
25:37
yoga.
25:39
Yeah.
25:40
I've
25:40
asked
25:41
about
25:42
people
25:42
and
25:42
ideas,
25:43
but
25:44
I'd
25:44
also
25:44
like
25:44
to
25:45
ask
25:45
about
25:47
movements.
25:47
You
25:48
have
25:48
be
25:49
witnessed
25:50
and
25:52
nurtured
25:52
people
25:53
at
25:53
the
25:53
cutting
25:53
edge
25:54
of
25:54
several
25:55
kind
25:55
of
25:55
movements,
25:57
one
25:57
kind
25:58
or
25:58
another.
25:58
I.
25:59
I'd
25:59
be
25:59
intrigued
26:00
to
26:00
know
26:01
there
26:01
are
26:01
fads
26:02
and
26:02
there
26:02
short
26:03
lived
26:03
fads
26:04
and
26:04
there
26:04
are
26:05
longer,
26:05
enduring,
26:06
deeper,
26:07
more
26:08
beneficent
26:09
movements.
26:10
I'd
26:11
love
26:11
to
26:11
know
26:12
if
26:12
there
26:12
are
26:12
any
26:13
that
26:13
stand
26:13
out
26:14
for
26:14
you
26:14
as
26:14
having
26:15
been
26:15
particularly
26:16
striking
26:17
or
26:17
important
26:18
and
26:18
what
26:18
are
26:18
the
26:18
qualities
26:19
of
26:19
those
26:19
that
26:20
enable
26:20
them
26:21
to
26:21
both
26:22
endure
26:22
and
26:22
contribute.
26:24
Well,
26:24
as
26:25
you're
26:26
asking
26:26
the
26:27
question,
26:27
I
26:28
thought
26:28
first
26:28
of
26:28
all
26:29
of
26:29
a
26:29
movement
26:29
we
26:30
all
26:30
have
26:30
in
26:30
common,
26:30
which
26:31
is
26:31
the
26:31
integral
26:32
movement
26:33
and
26:34
what
26:34
has
26:35
allowed
26:35
that
26:35
to
26:36
endure.
26:36
I
26:36
think
26:36
it
26:37
pointed
26:38
to
26:38
something
26:39
in
26:39
our
26:39
experience
26:41
that
26:42
had
26:42
never
26:42
been
26:43
named
26:43
quite
26:44
so
26:44
clearly.
26:45
That
26:46
is
26:47
very
26:47
important
26:48
to
26:48
bring
26:48
forward
26:49
an
26:50
I
26:50
perspective,
26:51
a
26:51
we
26:51
perspective
26:52
and
26:52
an
26:53
external
26:53
context,
26:54
systems
26:55
based
26:55
perspective
26:56
into
26:57
any
26:58
discussion.
26:58
And
26:59
I
26:59
think
26:59
it
27:00
has
27:00
been
27:01
enduring
27:02
because
27:03
it's
27:03
inherent
27:04
and
27:05
we
27:05
benefit
27:06
from
27:07
having
27:07
it
27:07
in
27:07
our
27:07
consciousness.
27:08
That's
27:09
my
27:09
experience
27:09
of
27:10
thinking
27:10
in
27:11
terms
27:11
of
27:11
I,
27:11
we
27:12
and
27:12
then
27:13
systems.
27:14
Interestingly,
27:15
now
27:16
I'm
27:16
watching
27:17
internal
27:18
family
27:18
systems
27:19
become
27:20
a
27:20
movement
27:20
in
27:21
our
27:21
time.
27:22
This
27:22
is
27:22
something
27:22
Dick
27:23
Schwartz
27:23
is
27:23
an
27:23
author
27:24
that
27:24
we
27:24
work
27:24
with.
27:24
That
27:25
sounds
27:25
true
27:25
and
27:25
A
27:25
couple
27:26
years
27:26
ago
27:27
he
27:27
mentioned,
27:27
I
27:27
think
27:28
ifs
27:28
could
27:28
be
27:28
a
27:29
movement.
27:29
And
27:30
I
27:30
thought,
27:30
huh,
27:30
really?
27:31
I
27:31
wonder.
27:32
And
27:33
now
27:33
I
27:34
see
27:34
so
27:34
many
27:35
people
27:36
who
27:37
are
27:37
writing
27:38
books
27:38
incorporating
27:39
ifs
27:41
into
27:41
their
27:42
approach
27:43
and
27:43
referencing
27:44
this
27:44
notion
27:44
of
27:45
being
27:45
self
27:46
led
27:48
in
27:48
any
27:48
given
27:49
moment
27:49
in
27:50
our
27:50
work,
27:50
our
27:50
relationships.
27:51
And
27:51
what
27:51
does
27:52
that
27:52
mean?
27:52
That
27:53
quality
27:53
of
27:54
self
27:55
or
27:55
our
27:56
essential
27:56
nature
27:57
or
27:57
our
27:57
Buddha
27:58
nature?
27:58
There's
27:58
lots
27:58
of
27:59
words
27:59
for
27:59
it.
27:59
And
28:00
how
28:00
this
28:01
psychological
28:02
approach
28:02
of
28:03
embracing
28:03
all
28:03
of
28:04
our
28:04
parts
28:05
has
28:05
become
28:06
a
28:06
movement
28:06
in
28:07
our
28:07
time
28:07
to
28:08
help
28:08
people
28:09
outside
28:09
of
28:09
spiritual
28:10
traditions,
28:11
or
28:11
maybe
28:12
who
28:12
have
28:12
a
28:12
crossover
28:13
with
28:13
spiritual
28:13
traditions,
28:14
appreciate
28:15
this
28:15
energy
28:16
of
28:16
being
28:17
self
28:17
led,
28:18
being
28:19
calm,
28:20
confident,
28:22
compassionate,
28:23
curious,
28:24
creative,
28:25
courageous.
28:26
These
28:26
are
28:27
the
28:27
words
28:27
that
28:28
Dick
28:29
Schwartz
28:30
offers
28:30
in
28:31
association
28:31
with
28:32
self.
28:33
Huh.
28:33
I
28:34
never
28:34
would
28:34
have
28:34
thought,
28:34
but
28:35
what
28:35
a
28:35
great
28:36
movement.
28:37
And
28:37
it's
28:38
a
28:38
terrific
28:38
movement
28:39
in
28:39
our
28:39
time,
28:40
at
28:40
a
28:40
time
28:41
when
28:41
people
28:41
are
28:43
accepting,
28:44
oh,
28:44
there's
28:45
this
28:45
still
28:45
untransformed
28:46
part
28:46
of
28:46
me
28:47
that's
28:47
been
28:47
hiding
28:48
out.
28:48
Oh,
28:49
I
28:49
wonder
28:49
what
28:49
that
28:50
is.
28:50
I
28:50
need
28:50
to
28:51
find
28:51
a
28:51
way
28:52
to
28:54
embrace
28:54
this
28:55
exile
28:56
inside
28:57
myself
28:58
so
28:58
I
28:58
don't
28:58
ask
28:59
my
28:59
partner
28:59
or
29:00
other
29:00
people
29:00
to
29:00
be
29:01
taking
29:01
care
29:02
of
29:02
this
29:02
exiled
29:03
energy.
29:04
So
29:04
that's
29:04
interesting
29:04
to
29:05
me.
29:05
And
29:05
then
29:06
a
29:06
movement
29:06
that
29:07
I
29:07
feel
29:08
part
29:09
of,
29:09
and
29:09
you
29:10
both
29:10
have
29:10
pointed
29:11
to
29:11
it
29:11
in
29:11
this
29:11
conversation,
29:13
is
29:13
a
29:13
movement
29:14
for
29:14
business
29:16
to
29:16
be
29:16
a
29:17
force
29:17
of
29:18
positive
29:19
contribution
29:20
and
29:20
a
29:20
crucible
29:21
for
29:21
personal
29:22
growth
29:22
in
29:22
the
29:23
world.
29:23
So
29:24
you
29:24
could
29:24
say
29:24
conscious
29:25
business
29:25
or
29:26
conscious
29:26
capitalism.
29:27
And
29:28
this
29:29
is
29:29
a
29:29
movement
29:29
that
29:30
I
29:30
find
29:31
myself
29:32
being
29:33
a
29:33
torch
29:33
bearer
29:35
and
29:35
torchbearer
29:36
being
29:37
a
29:37
word,
29:37
traditional
29:38
image
29:39
that's
29:39
used
29:39
for
29:40
a
29:40
teacher
29:41
within
29:41
Tibetan
29:42
Buddhism.
29:42
And
29:43
I
29:43
think
29:43
I
29:43
find
29:43
myself
29:44
being
29:44
a
29:44
torchbearer
29:44
because
29:45
I've
29:45
spent
29:45
four
29:46
decades
29:47
having
29:48
a
29:48
foot
29:48
deeply
29:49
in
29:50
spiritual
29:51
practice
29:51
and
29:51
the
29:51
spiritual
29:52
journey
29:52
and
29:52
in
29:52
the
29:53
world
29:53
of
29:53
business
29:54
and
29:54
organizational
29:55
life.
29:56
And
29:57
seeing
29:57
that
29:57
there's
29:58
absolutely
29:59
no
30:00
reason
30:01
that
30:02
our
30:02
businesses
30:03
can't
30:03
be
30:03
not
30:04
just
30:04
a
30:04
terrific
30:04
place
30:05
for
30:05
spiritual
30:06
practice,
30:07
but
30:07
the
30:08
way
30:08
we
30:08
give
30:09
our
30:09
gifts
30:10
to
30:11
other
30:11
people.
30:12
And
30:13
then
30:13
your
30:13
business
30:14
is
30:14
beloved
30:15
and
30:16
you
30:16
have
30:16
a
30:17
sense
30:17
of
30:17
fulfillment
30:18
working
30:18
in
30:19
such
30:19
a
30:19
company.
30:20
So
30:20
that's
30:20
also
30:20
a
30:21
movement.
30:21
You
30:21
could
30:21
say
30:22
the
30:22
conscious
30:22
business
30:23
movement.
30:23
So
30:24
those
30:24
are
30:24
the
30:24
ones
30:24
that
30:25
occur
30:25
to
30:25
me
30:26
at
30:26
the
30:26
moment.
30:26
Roger,
30:27
to
30:27
underline.
30:29
Yeah,
30:30
beautiful.
30:30
And
30:31
the
30:31
question
30:32
that
30:32
comes
30:32
to
30:32
mind
30:33
immediately
30:33
is,
30:33
okay,
30:34
may
30:35
the
30:35
movement
30:35
be
30:35
successful.
30:36
And
30:37
what
30:38
strikes
30:38
me
30:39
in
30:40
your
30:40
work
30:40
is
30:41
how
30:41
much
30:42
your
30:43
business
30:43
is
30:44
a
30:44
reflection
30:44
of
30:45
you.
30:45
As
30:46
organizations
30:46
in
30:47
general
30:47
tend
30:47
to
30:47
be
30:47
a
30:48
reflection
30:48
of
30:49
the
30:49
instantiation
30:50
of
30:50
the
30:50
personality
30:51
of
30:51
the
30:51
person
30:52
who
30:52
at
30:52
the
30:52
top.
30:53
But
30:53
in
30:53
this
30:54
particular
30:54
case,
30:54
your
30:55
ideals,
30:55
your
30:56
practice
30:56
have
30:57
been
30:57
the
30:58
frame
30:58
and
30:59
guiding
30:59
light
31:00
for
31:00
your
31:01
company.
31:02
And
31:03
unfortunately,
31:03
most
31:04
companies,
31:04
the
31:04
primary
31:05
motive
31:05
seems
31:06
to
31:06
be
31:06
profit.
31:07
And,
31:07
you
31:07
know,
31:07
it's
31:07
understandable.
31:09
And
31:10
so
31:10
how
31:10
do
31:10
you
31:11
see
31:12
beyond
31:12
being
31:12
example?
31:14
Well,
31:15
a
31:15
couple
31:15
things.
31:16
First
31:16
of
31:16
all,
31:17
I
31:17
think
31:18
really,
31:18
companies
31:19
that
31:20
are
31:20
beloved
31:21
brands
31:21
and
31:22
successful
31:22
long
31:23
term,
31:23
their
31:24
primary
31:24
motivation,
31:25
I
31:25
don't
31:25
think,
31:26
is
31:27
profit
31:27
in
31:28
many
31:28
instances,
31:30
because
31:32
profit
31:32
is
31:33
an
31:33
outgrowth
31:34
of
31:35
doing
31:36
inspired
31:36
things
31:37
that
31:37
genuinely
31:39
serve
31:39
people's
31:40
real
31:40
needs
31:41
and
31:41
pleasing
31:41
and
31:41
delighting
31:42
and
31:42
surprising
31:43
them
31:43
and
31:44
anticipating
31:44
needs
31:45
they
31:45
didn't
31:45
even
31:45
know
31:46
they
31:46
had
31:46
and
31:47
solving
31:48
those
31:48
issues
31:48
for
31:49
your
31:49
customers.
31:49
And
31:50
then
31:50
profit
31:51
comes
31:51
down
31:51
the
31:51
line.
31:52
But
31:52
if
31:52
you
31:52
just
31:52
go
31:53
for
31:53
money,
31:53
I
31:53
mean,
31:54
what
31:54
I
31:54
mean,
31:55
that's
31:55
not
31:55
a
31:55
recipe
31:56
for
31:56
success
31:57
at
31:58
all.
31:58
A
31:59
recipe
31:59
for
32:00
success
32:00
is
32:01
to
32:02
really
32:03
connect
32:04
and
32:04
deliver
32:05
value
32:06
to
32:06
someone.
32:07
And
32:07
when
32:07
that
32:08
happens,
32:08
oh,
32:08
there
32:09
you
32:09
go.
32:09
And
32:09
then
32:09
value
32:10
comes
32:10
back
32:10
from
32:10
value
32:11
being
32:12
delivered.
32:13
And
32:13
then
32:13
in
32:13
terms
32:14
of
32:14
my
32:15
founding
32:16
role,
32:16
it
32:17
sounds
32:17
true.
32:17
A
32:18
year
32:18
and
32:18
a
32:18
half
32:18
ago,
32:19
I
32:19
passed
32:19
the
32:20
CEO
32:20
baton.
32:21
I
32:21
am
32:21
no
32:21
longer
32:22
the
32:22
CEO
32:22
of
32:22
the
32:23
company.
32:23
I'm
32:23
also
32:24
no
32:24
longer
32:24
the
32:24
publisher
32:25
at
32:25
the
32:25
company.
32:26
Two
32:26
people
32:27
who
32:27
have
32:27
worked
32:27
at
32:27
the
32:27
company
32:28
for
32:28
quite
32:28
a
32:28
long
32:29
time
32:29
were
32:30
promoted
32:31
into
32:31
those
32:31
roles.
32:32
People
32:33
who
32:34
embody
32:35
the
32:36
heart
32:36
commitments
32:37
of
32:37
the
32:37
business.
32:38
In
32:39
some
32:39
ways,
32:39
the
32:39
person
32:39
who's
32:40
now
32:40
the
32:40
CEO,
32:41
I
32:41
think,
32:42
is
32:42
better
32:43
suited
32:44
to
32:44
the
32:44
complexities
32:46
of
32:46
running
32:47
the
32:47
company
32:48
in
32:48
its
32:48
current
32:49
size
32:50
and
32:50
with
32:50
the
32:51
media
32:52
business
32:52
challenges
32:53
we
32:53
face
32:53
right
32:54
now.
32:54
And
32:55
so
32:55
I
32:55
think
32:55
as
32:56
the
32:56
founder,
32:57
I
32:57
set
32:58
the
32:58
core
32:58
DNA.
32:59
But
33:00
then
33:00
other
33:00
people
33:01
have
33:01
come
33:01
in
33:02
who
33:02
have
33:02
a
33:03
deep
33:03
resonance
33:04
and
33:04
are
33:04
embodying
33:05
its
33:06
expression
33:06
in
33:06
their
33:07
own
33:07
way.
33:09
Beautiful,
33:10
hugely
33:11
important,
33:11
important
33:12
part
33:12
of
33:13
inspired
33:14
leadership.
33:15
Knowing
33:16
when
33:16
it's
33:16
time
33:16
to
33:16
do
33:16
that,
33:17
to
33:17
turn
33:17
it
33:17
over.
33:18
And
33:20
you
33:20
can
33:20
say
33:20
that
33:20
President
33:21
Biden
33:21
did
33:21
that.
33:22
You
33:22
know,
33:22
he's
33:22
just
33:22
like,
33:23
okay,
33:24
they're
33:25
right.
33:25
I'm
33:26
getting
33:26
too
33:26
old
33:26
to
33:26
be
33:27
president.
33:27
And,
33:27
you
33:27
know,
33:28
give
33:28
this
33:28
huge
33:29
thing
33:29
to
33:29
give
33:29
up.
33:29
You
33:30
know,
33:30
when
33:30
you've
33:30
struggled
33:31
in
33:31
your
33:31
whole
33:31
political
33:32
career
33:32
to
33:32
give
33:32
up
33:33
power,
33:33
it's
33:34
really.
33:35
It's
33:35
really
33:36
remarkable.
33:36
So,
33:37
yeah,
33:38
a
33:38
lot
33:38
of
33:38
respect
33:39
for
33:39
that.
33:40
And
33:40
I
33:40
had
33:40
one
33:40
last
33:41
question
33:41
for
33:41
you.
33:41
We've
33:41
been
33:42
going
33:42
on
33:42
for
33:42
a
33:42
long
33:42
time.
33:43
Has
33:43
there
33:43
been
33:44
anything
33:44
in
33:44
your
33:45
years
33:45
of
33:46
this
33:46
path
33:46
and
33:46
starting
33:47
out
33:47
with
33:47
your
33:47
little
33:47
tape
33:47
recorder,
33:48
cassette
33:49
recorder,
33:49
talking
33:49
to,
33:50
you
33:50
know,
33:50
these
33:50
inspired
33:51
teachers
33:51
and
33:51
whatnot,
33:52
what
33:53
was
33:53
the
33:53
biggest
33:53
challenge?
33:54
What
33:54
was
33:54
the
33:54
darkest
33:55
time?
33:56
When
33:57
you
33:58
write,
33:59
maybe
33:59
this
33:59
is
34:00
not
34:00
the
34:00
right
34:00
thing,
34:00
or
34:01
I'm
34:01
not
34:01
the
34:01
right
34:02
person,
34:02
or
34:03
was
34:03
there
34:03
a
34:03
time
34:04
like
34:04
that?
34:05
Sure.
34:08
The
34:09
darkest
34:10
times,
34:11
and
34:12
I'm
34:12
going
34:12
to
34:12
say
34:12
that
34:13
plural,
34:13
have
34:14
been
34:14
when
34:14
sounds
34:15
true,
34:15
has
34:15
been
34:17
under
34:18
extreme
34:19
economic
34:19
pressure
34:21
and
34:21
that
34:21
has
34:22
happened
34:22
several
34:23
times
34:23
throughout
34:24
the
34:25
company's
34:25
growth
34:26
and
34:26
development,
34:27
some
34:28
from
34:28
errors
34:29
that
34:29
we
34:29
made
34:30
in
34:30
making
34:31
investments
34:32
in
34:32
product
34:32
lines
34:33
that
34:33
didn't
34:33
turned
34:33
out
34:34
some.
34:34
In
34:34
2008,
34:36
our
34:36
sales
34:37
went
34:37
from
34:38
20
34:38
million
34:38
a
34:39
year
34:39
to
34:39
13
34:40
million
34:40
the
34:41
next
34:41
year.
34:41
Whoa.
34:43
And
34:43
that
34:44
had
34:44
to
34:44
do
34:44
with
34:44
the
34:45
Great
34:45
Recession
34:45
at
34:46
the
34:46
time
34:46
and
34:46
the
34:47
Borders
34:47
bookstore
34:48
chain
34:48
closing,
34:49
which
34:49
was
34:49
one
34:49
of
34:49
our
34:49
biggest
34:50
accounts.
34:51
So
34:51
I
34:51
think
34:52
when
34:52
the
34:52
company
34:52
has
34:53
gone
34:53
through
34:54
economic
34:55
hardship
34:57
and
34:57
has
34:58
resulted
34:58
in
34:59
employees
35:00
being
35:00
laid
35:00
off,
35:01
that
35:02
has
35:02
happened
35:02
for.
35:03
Sounds
35:03
true.
35:03
Post
35:04
pandemic.
35:05
We
35:05
grew
35:05
a
35:06
lot
35:06
during
35:06
the
35:07
pandemic,
35:07
when
35:08
there
35:08
was
35:09
a
35:09
lot
35:09
of
35:10
increased
35:11
demand
35:11
in
35:12
our
35:13
offerings,
35:13
especially
35:14
our
35:14
offerings
35:14
online
35:15
and
35:15
also
35:15
our
35:16
nonfiction
35:16
books.
35:17
And
35:18
when
35:18
the
35:18
pandemic
35:19
eased
35:19
up
35:20
in
35:20
2022,
35:21
that
35:22
demand
35:22
fell
35:22
off
35:23
a
35:23
cliff,
35:24
and
35:24
we
35:25
had
35:25
to
35:26
shift
35:27
the
35:27
size
35:28
of
35:28
our
35:28
staff
35:29
in
35:29
order
35:29
to
35:30
come
35:30
into
35:30
alignment
35:31
with
35:32
our
35:32
sales.
35:33
And
35:34
that's
35:34
really,
35:35
really
35:35
hard.
35:36
And
35:36
yet
35:37
we
35:38
didn't
35:38
know
35:38
of
35:39
any
35:39
other
35:39
way
35:40
forward
35:41
to
35:41
protect
35:42
the
35:42
business,
35:43
to
35:43
be
35:43
a
35:44
flourishing
35:45
entity
35:46
than
35:46
to
35:46
make
35:47
reductions
35:47
in
35:47
staff.
35:48
So
35:48
that's
35:48
really,
35:49
really,
35:49
really
35:50
hard.
35:51
Yeah.
35:52
I
35:53
wanted
35:53
to
35:53
add
35:53
on
35:53
to
35:53
that
35:54
one
35:54
thing.
35:54
I'm
35:54
a
35:54
CEO
35:55
of
35:55
a
35:55
much
35:55
smaller
35:56
company,
35:56
but
35:57
I
35:57
feel,
35:58
you
35:58
know,
35:59
a
36:00
deep
36:00
responsibility
36:01
for
36:02
the
36:02
people
36:02
that
36:02
work
36:03
for
36:03
us,
36:04
like
36:04
I
36:04
almost
36:04
would
36:05
Family.
36:05
They
36:06
become
36:06
that
36:06
close.
36:07
And
36:08
sometimes
36:08
that
36:08
keeps
36:09
me
36:09
going
36:09
when
36:10
I
36:10
don't
36:10
want
36:10
to
36:10
do
36:11
it,
36:11
because
36:12
these
36:12
people
36:12
are
36:13
relying
36:13
on
36:13
me
36:14
for
36:14
their
36:14
income
36:15
and
36:15
for
36:15
the
36:16
work
36:16
that
36:16
we're
36:16
doing
36:16
together.
36:17
And
36:18
that
36:18
may
36:18
be
36:18
a
36:18
strength
36:20
and
36:20
a
36:20
weakness.
36:21
How
36:21
do
36:21
you
36:21
deal
36:21
with
36:21
that
36:22
part
36:22
of
36:22
it
36:22
and
36:22
being
36:22
able
36:23
to
36:23
make
36:23
those
36:23
hard
36:23
decisions.
36:24
But
36:24
the
36:24
love
36:25
and
36:25
the
36:25
responsibility
36:25
you
36:26
feel
36:26
for
36:26
the
36:26
people
36:26
that
36:27
have
36:27
been
36:27
part
36:27
of
36:27
the
36:27
journey
36:28
with
36:28
you,
36:29
the.
36:30
Thing
36:30
I
36:30
always
36:30
feel
36:31
is
36:31
that
36:32
what
36:32
I
36:33
owe
36:33
people
36:34
is
36:35
the
36:35
truth
36:37
and
36:38
navigating
36:38
together
36:39
in
36:39
partnership
36:40
to
36:40
the
36:40
best
36:41
of
36:41
our
36:41
ability.
36:42
I
36:42
can't
36:43
guarantee
36:44
anyone,
36:45
you
36:46
know,
36:46
lifetime
36:47
employment
36:47
or
36:48
anything
36:48
like
36:48
that.
36:49
That's
36:49
not
36:49
possible.
36:50
I
36:50
can't
36:50
be
36:50
relied
36:51
on
36:51
for
36:51
that.
36:52
What
36:53
I
36:53
can
36:53
be
36:54
relied
36:54
on
36:55
is
36:55
to
36:55
be
36:55
a
36:56
warm,
36:56
empathetic
36:57
truth
36:57
teller.
36:59
And
37:00
that
37:00
won't
37:00
figure
37:00
this
37:00
out
37:01
together
37:01
to
37:01
the
37:01
best
37:02
of
37:02
our
37:02
abilities.
37:05
Beautiful.
37:06
Tammy,
37:07
as
37:07
we
37:07
come
37:08
to
37:08
the
37:08
end
37:08
here,
37:09
is
37:09
there
37:09
anything
37:09
you'd
37:09
like
37:10
to
37:10
add?
37:22
I
37:22
noticed
37:23
that
37:23
when
37:23
we
37:23
talked
37:24
about
37:24
idealization
37:26
on
37:26
the
37:26
spiritual
37:27
journey,
37:27
I
37:27
was
37:27
really
37:28
happy
37:28
for
37:28
that
37:29
part
37:29
of
37:29
our
37:29
discussion
37:30
and
37:31
that
37:33
I
37:33
never
37:33
want
37:34
to
37:34
be
37:36
idealized
37:38
in
37:38
any
37:38
way
37:39
by
37:39
people,
37:40
for
37:40
example,
37:40
who
37:40
are
37:41
listening
37:42
right
37:42
now.
37:43
I've
37:44
wanted
37:44
to
37:44
be
37:45
true,
37:45
and
37:45
I
37:46
continue
37:46
to
37:46
want
37:46
to
37:47
be
37:47
true.
37:47
And
37:47
the
37:48
little
37:48
audio
37:48
program
37:49
I
37:49
made
37:49
for
37:50
hours
37:50
of
37:50
teachings
37:51
was
37:51
under
37:51
the
37:51
title
37:52
Being
37:53
True.
37:54
And
37:54
I
37:55
set
37:55
up
37:55
a
37:55
little
37:55
company
37:56
here
37:56
in
37:56
Canada,
37:56
where
37:57
I
37:57
live
37:57
now,
37:57
and
37:57
I
37:58
called
37:58
it
37:58
Being
37:58
True
37:59
Productions
38:00
as
38:01
part
38:01
of
38:01
my
38:02
Canadian
38:03
business
38:03
life.
38:04
There
38:04
was
38:04
a
38:04
requirement
38:05
for
38:05
me
38:05
to
38:05
do
38:05
that.
38:06
My
38:06
emphasis
38:06
here,
38:07
though,
38:07
is
38:08
what
38:08
does
38:08
it
38:08
mean
38:09
to
38:09
be
38:09
true?
38:10
That's
38:10
what
38:10
matters
38:11
to
38:12
me
38:12
as
38:12
a
38:12
person.
38:13
That's
38:13
where
38:13
I
38:13
find
38:14
my
38:14
integrity.
38:15
And
38:15
there's
38:16
not
38:16
an
38:16
idealization
38:18
in
38:18
that.
38:19
There
38:19
is
38:19
a.
38:20
Just
38:20
a
38:21
return
38:22
to.
38:23
Yeah.
38:24
To
38:24
that
38:24
journey.
38:25
So
38:25
that's
38:25
what
38:25
I.
38:26
I
38:26
guess
38:26
the
38:26
note
38:26
I
38:26
wanted
38:27
to
38:28
end
38:28
on.
38:32
Well,
38:32
thank
38:32
you
38:32
very
38:33
much.
38:33
This
38:33
has
38:34
been,
38:35
as
38:35
John
38:35
and
38:36
I
38:36
anticipate,
38:36
the
38:37
beautiful
38:37
discussion
38:38
and
38:38
a.
38:40
Yeah.
38:41
Just
38:41
a
38:41
gift.
38:42
So
38:43
thank
38:43
you
38:43
very
38:43
much
38:44
for
38:45
all
38:45
the
38:45
gifts
38:45
you've
38:46
given
38:46
over
38:46
so
38:47
many
38:47
years
38:47
and
38:47
the
38:48
work
38:48
you've
38:48
done
38:48
on
38:48
yourself
38:49
and
38:49
the
38:50
work
38:50
you've
38:50
enabled
38:51
the
38:51
rest
38:51
of
38:51
us
38:51
to
38:52
do.
38:52
So
38:53
a
38:53
deep
38:53
thank
38:53
you.
38:54
Yeah,
38:55
you've
38:55
been.
38:55
You've
38:55
been
38:55
a
38:55
revelation,
38:56
Tammy.
38:56
Thank
38:57
you.
38:57
I
38:57
knew
38:57
some
38:58
about
38:58
you
38:58
and
38:58
all
38:58
this
38:59
thing,
38:59
but.
38:59
But
38:59
there's
39:00
just.
39:00
Anyway,
39:02
there's
39:02
a
39:03
lot
39:03
of
39:03
treasure
39:03
and
39:03
wisdom
39:04
and
39:04
honesty
39:05
that
39:05
comes
39:06
through
39:06
very
39:07
clearly
39:07
in
39:07
what
39:07
you
39:07
say,
39:08
and
39:09
you
39:09
don't
39:09
find
39:09
that
39:09
every
39:10
day.
39:10
So
39:11
thank
39:11
you
39:11
for
39:11
being.
39:12
I
39:13
don't
39:13
know,
39:14
in
39:14
integrity
39:14
with
39:15
yourself
39:15
and
39:15
your
39:15
path.
39:16
It's
39:16
helped
39:16
us
39:17
a
39:17
lot.
39:17
So
39:18
thank
39:18
you.
39:18
Thank
39:19
you
39:19
both.
39:19
Friends.
39:20
Thank
39:20
you.
39:21
Thank
39:21
you
39:22
very
39:22
much
39:22
for
39:23
being
39:23
a
39:23
part
39:23
of
39:23
this
39:24
conversation.
39:24
We
39:25
hope
39:25
that
39:25
you
39:25
were
39:25
moved,
39:26
as
39:26
we
39:26
are
39:27
moved,
39:27
being
39:27
part
39:27
of
39:27
it
39:28
ourselves.
39:28
We'd
39:29
also
39:29
like
39:29
to
39:29
say
39:30
that
39:30
this
39:30
is
39:30
being
39:31
funded
39:31
by
39:32
Roger
39:32
and
39:32
myself.
39:32
It
39:32
comes
39:33
out
39:33
of
39:33
our
39:33
pockets.
39:34
So
39:34
if
39:34
you
39:34
would
39:34
like
39:34
to
39:35
help
39:35
us
39:35
to.
39:36
Mainly
39:36
to
39:36
get
39:37
this
39:37
podcast
39:37
out
39:37
to
39:38
more
39:38
people,
39:38
because
39:39
the
39:39
bigger
39:39
audience
39:39
have.
39:40
Which
39:40
is
39:40
steadily
39:40
growing,
39:41
but
39:41
the
39:41
more
39:41
people
39:41
we
39:42
can
39:42
reach
39:42
and
39:42
the
39:42
more
39:42
marketing
39:43
we
39:43
can
39:43
do,
39:44
the
39:44
more
39:44
positive
39:45
effect
39:45
we
39:45
can
39:45
have
39:45
on
39:46
the
39:46
world.
39:46
So
39:46
we've
39:47
done
39:47
that
39:47
a
39:47
couple
39:47
of
39:47
ways.
39:47
But
39:48
we'd
39:48
like
39:48
you
39:48
to
39:49
buy
39:49
us
39:49
a
39:49
cup
39:49
of
39:49
coffee.
39:50
Very
39:50
simple.
39:50
And
39:51
I
39:51
do
39:51
that
39:51
with
39:51
podcasts
39:52
that
39:52
I
39:53
support,
39:53
and
39:54
I
39:54
find
39:54
it's
39:54
very
39:55
satisfying.
39:55
So
39:56
thank
39:56
you
39:56
for
39:56
your
39:56
help.
39:57
Thank
39:57
you
39:57
for
39:57
your
39:57
presence,
39:58
and
39:58
thank
39:58
you
39:58
for
39:59
all
39:59
you
39:59
are
39:59
and
40:00
all
40:00
you
40:00
do.
40:00
We
40:01
love.