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Mormonism Examined: A Biblical Response · Reformed Thinking

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Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're taking on a truly
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fascinating topic. It's one that, well, it really
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requires both careful theological distinctions and I
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think, a gentle, clear approach. We're looking at Mormonism
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specifically through the lens of Reformed Christian thought.
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And we've got quite a bit of material in front of us, a
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comprehensive study guide, briefing documents, detailed
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notes, breaking down the core affirmations of both traditions.
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Our mission today is pretty straightforward.
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We want to clarify how these two theological systems understand
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God, Christ, Scripture, and salvation.
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This isn't about just sticking labels on things, It's about
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really understanding what these fundamental concepts truly mean,
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especially where you know terms might sound familiar but hold
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vastly different content underneath.
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This deep dive should equip you with understanding, helping you
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grasp these theological points and discern truth with with
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clarity. Yeah, and what's fascinating
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here is the absolute necessity of precision when we talk about
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these things. It's just so easy to talk past
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one another when we're using what some call false friends.
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Words that are the same, like God or grace, but the underlying
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concepts are actually miles apart.
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This Dee dive really aims to bring that concetual distinction
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into shar focus, so you can see where the fundamental
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differences truly lie. OK, great.
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Let's let's unpack this, starting with authority and
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revelation. How does Mormonism approach
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where divine truth comes from and how it gets presented?
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Well, what's striking right away is Mormonism's approach to
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revelation. They see it as an ongoing, open
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process. It means doctrine can actually
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expand beyond the biblical Canon we typically think of, and this
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functions primarily through a living prophet.
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A living prophet. So someone today receiving new
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revelation. Exactly.
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And for Latter Day Saints or LDS, scripture isn't just the
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Bible, it includes the Bible, but often with the qualification
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in so far as it is translated correctly, which can sometimes
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function as a way to, let's say, navigate passages that don't
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align with their other teachings.
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OK, so it's the Bible plus other books.
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Right. Their Canon also includes the
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Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of
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Great Price. These are considered standard
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works functioning as companions to the Bible.
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So the Book of Mormon, that's the one about ancient America.
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Yes, presented as another testament of Jesus Christ,
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Doctrine and Covenants contains revelations mostly to Joseph
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Smith and his successors about church structure doctrine.
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And the Pearl of great price. That includes some writings
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attributed to Abraham, Joseph Smith's own history, things like
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that. They function together as their
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scriptural foundation. So it's not just about adding
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more books. It sounds like the whole system
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of authority is different, especially with that living
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prophet figure. Precisely.
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The entire system really operates under the interpretive
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authority of this living prophet.
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He's seen as God's spokesman, and on earth today, this prophet
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can issue binding new revelation for the Church.
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Which means doctrine isn't static.
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It can be elaborated, unveiled further, even changed or
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redefined over time. So something taught previously
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could be superseded by new revelation.
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Yes, that's possible within their framework.
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Mormonism posits that revelation remains open and can expand
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doctrine. This means it can introduce
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teachings that might redefine core concepts.
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God, Christ, the gospel itself. It's like a flowing stream
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rather than a finished deposit. And how do members know if these
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new revelations, or even the Book of Mormon itself, are true?
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Is there a confirmation process? Yes, and this is quite central.
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LDS members often speak of experiencing a burning in the
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bosom. It's described as a felt
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subjective confirmation, a kind of warmth or peace or strong
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feeling in the heart that confirms the truth of the Book
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of Mormon and the calling of the current prophet.
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A subjective feeling. Right.
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This internal testimony is really key for authenticating
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extra canonical doctrine and ongoing revelation.
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It acts as an internal validator quite distinct from, say,
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historical evidence or logical argument.
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For a member, it's often a very powerful persuasive
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confirmation. OK, so that's the Mormon view.
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How does the Reform view contrast with that open-ended
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approach? What is our understanding say
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about Revelation? Well, the Reformed approach
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stands in really stark contrast. It forces us to ask that crucial
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question, what constitutes God's binding word for his people?
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Reformed theology gives well ultimate emphasis to the
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finality and sufficiency of God's speech in his Son Jesus
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Christ, as that speech is recorded for us in the Bible.
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Finality and sufficiency, meaning it's done and it's
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enough. Exactly.
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The Apostolic witness to Christ, written down under the
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inspiration of the Holy Spirit is considered a once for all
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deposit of faith. Jude verse 3 talks about this.
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Think of it like a building. The Church is built on the
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foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus
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Himself as the chief cornerstone.
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And you only lay a foundation once.
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Precisely. Foundations are laid once at the
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beginning, not continuously throughout history.
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God's redemptive revelation reached its climax, its
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definitive form in Jesus Christ. And that revelation is fully and
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reliably recorded in the Scriptures of the Old and New
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Testaments. So additional dog mix spanning
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Revelation isn't just unnecessary, it actually runs
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counter to the finished work of Christ and the nature of that
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Apostolic foundation. That feels like a very decisive
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break from the idea of ongoing new revelation.
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What does that mean for the biblical Canon itself, the
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collection of books we consider Scripture?
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It means the Reformed confession asserts a closed Canon.
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The 66 books of the Old and New Testaments are seen as self
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authenticating, inspired by God. This Canon is held to be
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sufficient and clear what we call perspicuous in all matters
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necessary for salvation and the Christian life.
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Sufficient and clear. Yes.
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So this view naturally denies the legitimacy of any supposed
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dogma expanding or Canon rivaling Revelation after the
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Apostolic Era closed. The Bible itself contains
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warnings against, adding to, or taking away from God's Word,
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culminating in Revelation chapter 22.
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So the Canon is closed. There aren't new prophets
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bringing new binding scripture. That's the Reformed
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understanding. God completed His special
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revelation in Christ and through the testimony of His apostles
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and prophets recorded in Scripture.
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So if the Canon is closed, what is the Holy Spirit's role today?
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It isn't to give new doctrines then.
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That's right, The Holy Spirit's ongoing ministry isn't about
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revealing new doctrines or adding to Scripture.
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It's about illumination. He illumines the Word that has
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already been written down. Inspired by Him, He enables
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believers to grasp, understand and apply what He has already
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revealed in the Bible. So he helps us understand the
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existing scripture. Exactly.
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He doesn't introduce new teachings that redefine God,
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Christ, or the gospel, and he certainly doesn't contradict
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what he has already revealed in Scripture.
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Sure, His work is to bring clarity and conviction
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concerning the truth of the finished Word, not to add to it.
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He glorifies Christ by taking what is already revealed about
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Christ in Scripture and making it real to us.
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And does the Bible itself give us ways to test claims of new
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revelations? And someone comes along and
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saying God told me this. Absolutely.
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The Bible provides clear tests. A primary one is doctrinal
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fidelity. Does the message align with what
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God has already revealed? For instance, if a message
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alters the biblical doctrine of God's absolute oneness, or the
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deity of Christ, or justification by faith alone, it
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fails the test no matter who delivers it.
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Even an Angel. Paul says in Galatians 1, Even
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if we or an Angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel
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contrary to the one we preach to you, let him be accursed.
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That's a pretty strong warning. That certainly is any other
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tests. Another test is perfect
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veracity, especially for predictive prophecy as laid out
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in Deuteronomy 18. If a prophet makes a prediction
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and it doesn't come true, he's not from God.
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So doctrinal consistency with Scripture and absolute
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truthfulness are key biblical tests.
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And that subjective experience, the burning in the bosom, how
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does that fit into the Reformed view of the Spirit's work?
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Is there room for experience? Oh, absolutely.
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Reformed theology affirms the Spirit's inward testimony.
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He works in our hearts, bearing witness with our Spirit that we
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are children of God, assuring us of the truth of the Word and our
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adoption. But here's the key.
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That experience always points toward, confirms, and aligns
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with the objective Apostolic Scriptures.
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It never points away from it or validates something contrary to
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it. So experience is important, but
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it's subordinate to Scripture. Exactly.
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A subjective feeling like a burning in the bosom, however
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strong, cannot authenticate doctrines that contradict the
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clear teaching of the Bible about, say, the nature of God or
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the gospel of grace alone through faith alone.
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The Spirit's true witness confirms the Scriptures divine
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authority. It doesn't validate teachings
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that oppose the Apostolic Gospel.
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This makes it incredibly clear why you called Revelation a
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false friend earlier. The same word, but vastly
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different meanings. You've got it.
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The term revelation itself signifies fundamentally
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different things. For the Latter Day Saints, it
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often means an ongoing, open, expanding word through a living
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prophet, potentially adding new doctrines.
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For Reformed Christians, revelation points to God's
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completed, sufficient, authoritative, and final word
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about himself and his salvation plan, found exclusively in the
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66 books of the Bible. Grasping this difference is
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absolutely crucial for any meaningful conversation.
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OK, so with such different foundations in revelation, it's
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probably no surprise that the understanding of God himself is
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also very different. How does Mormonism define the
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Godhead? Yeah, this is perhaps the most
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significant divergent. Mormonism defines the Godhead
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not as one God in three persons, but as a council or Society of
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three separate, distinct, embodied gods.
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The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are seen as 3
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distinct beings, united in purpose, but not united in one
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single divine essence or being. Three separate gods, not one
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God. Correct. 3 distinct divine
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beings. This is a categorical departure
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from biblical monotheism, the belief in one God, and from the
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classical Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
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The Reformed Confession based on Scripture forms one simple
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indivisible God who eternally exists in three coequal Co
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eternal Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all sharing the one
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divine essence. So when Latter Day Saints talk
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about the unity of the Godhead, they mean unity of purpose, like
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a committee working together, not unity of being.
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Precisely, their unity is described as one of purpose,
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will, or agreement, not an ontological unity of essence.
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Classical Trinitarianism asserts unity of essence.
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The three persons are the one God.
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And adding another layer, Mormonism teaches that these
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distinct gods are embodied beings.
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They have bodies of flesh and bone, much like resurrected
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humans. Embodied.
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But doesn't the Bible say God is spirit?
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It does. John 4.24.
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The biblical teaching is that God is Spirit, infinite,
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eternal, and unchangeable without body parts or passions.
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This Mormon concept of embodied deities is directly at odds with
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that. And there's also an idea of
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progression, isn't there? That God the Father wasn't
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always God. Yes, that's a key aspect of some
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strings of LDS teaching. The Father is sometimes
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understood as an exalted man who progressed to godhood over time.
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This implies A developmental aspect to deity that God himself
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achieved his status. This flatly contradicts the
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Reformed understanding of God as immutable, unchanging in his
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being, perfections and purposes, and eternally perfect.
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He didn't become God. He is God eternally.
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And Jesus fits into this progression idea too.
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Often, yes. Jesus is typically framed as the
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first born spirit child of the Father and Mother in heaven, who
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then progressed and eventually became a God through his
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faithfulness and atonement. Again, this contrasts sharply
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with the biblical view of Christ as eternally God the Son.
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Wow. OK, this really is a major point
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of divergent touching the very essence of who God is.
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So let's clearly state the Reformed confession about God's
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nature and the Godhead. Right from a Reformed
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perspective grounded in Scripture, our understanding of
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God starts with His absolute oneness and His unchanging
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nature. This immediately raises the
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question, what does it mean for God to be 1?
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There is only one living and true God.
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He is fundamentally simple and indivisible.
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This means he doesn't consist of parts that could be assembled,
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developed, or exalted. He isn't composed of attributes,
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He is his attributes. He's love.
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He's just as He is, eternal. Unlike the LDS view of a
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potentially progressing deity. Exactly.
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God is infinite in his being and perfection.
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He exists from everlasting to everlasting as Psalm 90 says.
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He is the great I am, who I am from Exodus 3, the self existent
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1 dependent on nothing outside himself for his being or his
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perfection. And he is immutable, unchanging.
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His being, his wisdom, his power, His Holiness, his
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justice, his goodness, his truth.
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None of these change. His purposes stand forever, so
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to speak, of God. Progressing is, from a Reformed
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viewpoint, to deny His fundamental divine nature as the
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eternally perfect. One, and the idea of God being
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Spirit is central to this. Absolutely essential.
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God is a most pure spirit, invisible, without body parts or
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passions. As Jesus clearly stated, God is
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spirit, not a man of flesh and bone, exalted or otherwise.
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This directly contradicts the Mormon teaching of the Father as
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an exalted man and the Godhead consisting of separate embodied
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beings. And his relationship to space.
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Because He is Spirit, He is immense and omnipresent.
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He fills heaven and earth. He isn't confined to a specific
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location, a planet, or a throne in the way an embodied being
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would be. He is incomprehensible in His
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fullness. Almighty, all wise, perfectly
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holy, absolutely free and sovereign.
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His omniscience and omnipotence aren't acquired capacities, they
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are perfections. He eternally is.
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And that fundamental distinction between God and us, his
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creatures you mentioned? This is key and Reformed
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thought. It's the creator creature
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distinction and it's absolute and non negotiable.
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God is eternally God, the uncreated Creator.
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We are and always will be creatures dependent on Him for
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our very existence. This distinction is
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unbridgeable. Any theology that blurs this
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line, for example by teaching that humans can progress to
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become gods, inheriting the same kind of being as God the Father,
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is seen as fundamentally undermining the gospel itself.
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It removes the unique glory and sovereignty of the one true God.
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Isaiah 43.10 comes to mind. Before me no God was formed, nor
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shall there be any after me. Precisely that speaks powerfully
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to God's unique, eternal, uncreated status.
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OK, so God is absolutely one in his being.
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How then does the Trinity fit in?
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If God is 1, how can he also be 3?
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This is the Mr. In the glory of the doctrine of the Trinity, the
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one true God eternally exists or subsist in three Co equal Co
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eternal Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
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They are a distinct persons, yet they share the very same
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undivided divine essence or being.
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The New Testament clearly confesses both the oneness of
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God and the threeness of persons within that oneness.
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Like in the Great Commission? Exactly Matthew 28.19 baptizing
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in the name, singular name of the Father and of the Son and of
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the Holy Spirit. Also in passages like Second
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Corinthians 13.14 the Apostolic blessing.
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When Jesus says in John 10.30 I and the Father are one, he's
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asserting a unity of essence of being, not merely a unity of
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purpose or agreement like members of a committee.
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Which seems to be the core of the Mormon view of the Godhead.
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Right. Mormonism's concept of a godhead
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as a Society of three separate gods united only in purpose,
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reduces the biblical Trinity to, well, a cooperative committee.
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It effectively reintroduces a form of polytheism.
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Even while using some Christian vocabulary.
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It fundamentally misses the biblical revelation of who the
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one God truly is. So it's crystal clear now why
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God and Godhead are such critical false friends here.
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Absolutely. It's essential in any
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conversation to clarify Does God mean the one, infinite, eternal,
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immutable spirit existing as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
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Or does it mean 1 of potentially many gods, an exalted man, part
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of a council? And this redefinition,
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particularly the idea that God the Father was once mortal and
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that humans can become gods, completely collapses that
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absolute creator creature distinction.
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This is a foundational point of conflict with classical biblical
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Christian theology. It changes the very object of
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worship. OK, moving from the nature of
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God himself, let's now consider how Mormonism views Jesus Christ
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with their understanding of His person and His work.
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Right, And again we see fundamental divergences from
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classical Christian theology. The latter day St. teaching
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often frames Jesus as the literal first born spirit, child
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of Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother.
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He existed in a spirit form before his earthly birth.
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But this framing implies that Jesus is ontologically distinct
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from the Father and posterior to Him, and being not eternally
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coequal and sharing the very same divine nature from eternity
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past. So he's a created being
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essential, a very high one, but created.
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Within that framework, yes. Distinct from the Father in
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essence and in this view, Jesus became a God, often seen as
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achieving the status through his faithfulness and his role in the
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plan of salvation, including the atonement.
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This contrast sharply with the Reformed confession rooted in
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John. One in the beginning was the
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Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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He didn't become God. He is God, the eternal Son who
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then became flesh. And their understanding of the
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atonement, Where did it happen and what did it achieve?
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LDS teaching frequently emphasizes the atonement
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occurring significantly in the Garden of Gethsemane, where
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Jesus is said to have suffered for the sins of mankind.
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The cross and resurrection are also important, of course.
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Together, these events are understood to secure universal
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resurrection for all humanity. Everyone gets resurrected
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because of Christ's work. OK, universal resurrection, but
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what about full salvation or what they call exaltation?
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That's where the contingency comes in.
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While Christ's atonement makes resurrection possible for
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everyone and offers the opportunity for further
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progression, achieving exaltation, the highest state of
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glory, becoming like God, potentially godhood is still
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contingent on the individual's faithfulness.
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This means participating in specific ordinances like temple
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ceremonies and diligently keeping covenants throughout
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one's life. So Christ's work isn't
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sufficient by itself for the highest level of salvation.
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It's often presented as providing the essential
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foundation or platform, but human effort, obedience, and
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participation in ordinances are necessary to build upon that
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platform and achieve exaltation. It makes Christ's work
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necessary, but not entirely sufficient for the ultimate
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goal. That sounds like a very
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different Jesus and a very different atonement.
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What is the Reformed confession regarding the person and work of
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Christ? Yes, it is quite different.
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From a Reformed perspective. The emphasis is on Christ's
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singular, finished, and all sufficient work.
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This prompts the question, what does the biblical phrase once
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for all truly mean regarding his sacrifice?
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Reformed Christology confesses Jesus Christ as the eternal Son
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of God, truly God, consubstantial meaning, sharing
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the same substance or essence with the Father.
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He was God, as John One says. Then in the incarnation he
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became flesh without ever ceasing to be God.
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This is the doctrine of the hypostatic union.
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One person, Jesus Christ, who is both fully God and fully man,
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with two distinct natures, divine and human, perfectly and
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inseparably joined together in that one person.
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One person, 2 natures. Not partly God, partly man, but
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fully both. Exactly.
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And his atonement was decisively accomplished and consummated on
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the cross. There Christ offered himself as
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a priestly sacrifice once for all.
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As the book of Hebrews repeatedly emphasizes, this
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sacrifice involved both his active obedience, his entire
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life lived in perfect conformity to God's law on our behalf, and
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his passive obedience, His suffering and substitutionary
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death on the cross bearing the penalty for our sins.
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Paying our debt. Satisfying God's justice.
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Precisely. It resulted in a real, objective
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propitiation of God's wrath against sin and the expiation or
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removal of our guilt. His death actually achieved
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redemption. So in this view, salvation isn't
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something we contribute to earning, it's entirely a gift
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received. That's the core of the Reformed
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understanding of the gospel. It's not that Christ merely made
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salvation possible. If we do our part, it is the
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good news that He finished redemption completely and He
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freely gives the salvation, including forgiveness,
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righteousness. Eternal life to the ungodly, to
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those who simply trust in Him. It's received through faith
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alone. Solified.
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Faith alone apart from works. Yes, Scripture ties every saving
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benefit directly to our union with the crucified and risen
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Christ received by faith. And critically, A Savior who is
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less than fully and eternally God could not possess the
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infinite worth required to atone for the infinite offense of sin
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against the infinite God. His deity is essential for the
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sufficiency of His sacrifice, and His resurrection and
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ascension powerfully certify the completion, acceptance, and
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finality of His priestly work. He finished the job, which is
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why he is now seated at God's right hand.
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So it becomes clear that even the name Jesus Christ can
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function as a false friend in these discussions, representing
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very different figures and works.
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Yes, absolutely. The term Jesus Christ is used by
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both groups, but the conceptual content behind the name differs
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drastically. For Reformed theology, Jesus
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Christ refers to the eternal Son of God, consubstantial with the
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Father, fully God and fully man, who offered Himself once for all
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on the cross as a perfect, sufficient propitiatory
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sacrifice that accomplished our redemption freely given through
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faith. For much of LDS teaching, Jesus
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Christ refers to the first born spirit child who progressed to
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godhood and accomplished an atonement that makes
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resurrection universal and exaltation possible for those
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who subsequently meet the requirements through ordinances
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and obedience. Very different concepts.
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OK, with these foundational differences in God, in Christ,
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it follows the views on humanity, sin and salvation
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would also diverge. How does Mormonism view the
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human condition and the path to salvation?
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Right. And here again, the very
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definition of the gospel is reconfigured.
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In Mormonism, the gospel is typically understood as the
21:52
comprehensive plan of salvation. This plan is administered
21:56
through Christ and His restored Church, and it involves a
21:59
sequence of necessary steps and ongoing actions by the
22:02
individual. Steps like.
22:04
Faith in Jesus Christ, repentance from sin, baptism by
22:08
immersion by one holding proper priesthood authority, receiving
22:12
the gift of the Holy Ghost, often confirmed by the laying on
22:14
of hands, participation in sacred temple ordinances like
22:18
endowments and ceilings, and then enduring faithfully to the
22:21
end in keeping covenants. It's presented as a pathway, a
22:24
process requiring active participation in these specific
22:27
requirements to achieve the fullness of salvation or
22:30
exaltation. And this connects to their view
22:32
of where humans came from, the pre mortal existence.
22:34
Yes, LDS doctrine posits a pre mortal existence where all
22:38
humans lived as literal spirit children of heavenly parents.
22:41
Our mortal life on Earth is seen as a crucial stage in this
22:44
ongoing progression toward potential godhood, a time for
22:47
gaining a physical body and being tested.
22:50
What about the fall Adam and Eve's sin?
22:53
How's it viewed? Is it seem negatively like in
22:56
traditional Christianity? Often no.
22:58
The fall is frequently viewed in Mormonism as a fortunate fall, a
23:02
necessary and even positive step in the plan.
23:05
Without it, Adam and Eve couldn't have had children, and
23:08
humanity couldn't have experienced mortality, gained
23:10
bodies, or had the opposition necessary for growth and
23:14
progression. So not inherently bad, but a
23:17
necessary step. What about inherited sin?
23:20
LDS teaching explicitly denies inherited guilt from Adam.
23:24
Their second article of faith states we believe that men will
23:27
be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's
23:30
transgression. Sin is primarily understood as
23:32
individual acts of wrongdoing committed after reaching an age
23:35
of accountability, typically considered to be 8 years old.
23:38
Before that age, children are generally seen as innocent and
23:41
covered by the atonement. OK, so no original sin or guilt.
23:44
How does grace function in this system?
23:46
Grace in LDS discourse is often defined primarily as God's
23:50
divine help or enabling power. It's the assistance God gives to
23:54
help faithful individuals keep the commandments and covenants
23:57
required on their path towards exaltation.
24:00
It suggests A synergistic role. God's grace works together with
24:03
human effort. It empowers obedience rather
24:06
than being the sole ground of acceptance despite disobedience.
24:09
And tying the back to Christ's work, his atonement secures
24:12
resurrection, but exaltation depends on.
24:16
On utilizing that grace to faithfully participate in the
24:18
required ordinances and keep the covenants throughout life.
24:22
Exaltation, the highest state involving becoming like God,
24:25
eternal family relationships, potential godhood is contingent
24:29
on this obedience and ritual participation.
24:32
So Christ's work is seen as opening the door, providing the
24:35
essential platform, but individuals must walk through
24:38
that door and build on that platform through their own
24:40
faithfulness and works to reach the ultimate goal.
24:43
This includes performing proxy ordinances in temples for
24:45
deceased ancestors, giving them a chance to accept the gospel
24:48
and progress as well. Right, the work for the dead.
24:51
So this paints a clear picture. Humanity progressing, needing to
24:55
participate actively in a multi step plan with grace as divine
25:00
assistance along the way. How does the Reformed view of
25:03
human nature, sin and salvation fundamentally differ?
25:06
It differs profoundly from a Reformed perspective.
25:09
The gospel isn't defined as a plan of steps we must follow,
25:12
but as the finished, objective good news of what God has
25:15
already done in Christ to save sinners.
25:17
It's an announcement of God's gracious accomplishment through
25:19
Christ's life, death, and resurrection.
25:22
And this salvation is freely given to all who simply believe
25:25
or trust in Christ. This raises the question, what
25:28
does it mean for salvation to be truly freely given?
25:31
And how does it view humanity's starting point?
25:34
Reformed anthropology begins with humanity created in time by
25:37
God as a psychosomatic unity, body and soul together, made in
25:41
God's image, originally good but mutable.
25:44
The Fall wasn't fortunate. It was a culpable, willful
25:46
transgression against God. It resulted not only in Adam and
25:49
Eve's guilt, but also an inherited guilt and what
25:52
theology calls total depravity passed down to all their
25:54
descendants. Total depravity meaning.
25:56
Not that humans are as evil as they could possibly be, but that
25:59
sin has affected every part of our nature, our intellects, our
26:02
wills, our affections. We are born spiritually dead,
26:06
enslaved to sin, and utterly unable, apart from God's grace,
26:09
to choose him, please him, or do anything to merit our salvation.
26:13
We inherit both Adam's guilt, original sin, and a corrupt
26:18
nature. So if we're totally depraved and
26:21
unable, how does salvation happen?
26:23
It can't be based on our actions or choices.
26:25
Exactly. Salvation flows entirely from
26:28
God's sovereign grace according to His eternal plan,
26:30
administered through His covenant of grace.
26:33
It's freely offered to sinners in Jesus Christ and is received
26:36
solely through faith in Him. The entire process, from
26:39
beginning to end, is God's work, rooted in our union with Christ.
26:43
This includes God's effectual calling, regeneration, being
26:46
born again by the Spirit, the gifts of faithful penitence,
26:49
justification, adoption into God's family, ongoing
26:52
sanctification, perseverance and faith, and final glorification.
26:56
You mentioned justification. That seems central and reformed
26:59
thought. What exactly is it?
27:00
It is absolutely central. Justification is understood as a
27:04
once for all legal or forensic act of God.
27:07
It's like a verdict declared in God's courtroom.
27:10
In justification, God pardons all the sins of a believing
27:13
Sinner and declares that Sinner righteous in his sight.
27:16
Declares them righteous based on what?
27:19
Not their own actions if they're depraved.
27:21
Not based on anything in them or done by them, God declares them
27:24
righteous solely for Christ's sake alone.
27:27
This happens by imputing or crediting Christ's perfect
27:30
righteousness to the believers account.
27:32
This imputed righteousness includes Christ's active
27:34
obedience, His perfect lifelong fulfillment of God's law, and
27:38
his passive obedience, His substitutionary death, paying
27:41
the penalty for sin. We receive this righteousness
27:44
through faith alone. Solified faith is the soul
27:47
instrument, the empty hand that receives the gift.
27:49
It's not a meritorious work itself.
27:51
So justification is entirely based on Christ work credited to
27:54
us, received by faith alone. A stark contrast to salvation
27:57
requiring ordinances and covenant keeping.
27:59
A fundamental contrast. Any notion that salvation is
28:03
earned, contributed to, or even assisted by human effort,
28:07
religious rituals, or personal worthiness is contrary to the
28:11
doctrine of justification by faith alone.
28:14
If justification is based on Christ alone, what's the place
28:17
for good works? Don't Christians do good things?
28:20
Absolutely. Following justification, the
28:22
Holy Spirit begins the work of sanctification.
28:25
This is the gradual, lifelong process of renewing the believer
28:29
into the image of Christ, making them actually progressively more
28:33
holy in their character and conduct.
28:35
Good works are the necessary fruit and evidence of genuine
28:38
saving faith and regeneration. They demonstrate the reality of
28:41
our justification and union with Christ.
28:44
But, and this is crucial, they are not the ground or basis of
28:46
our acceptance before God. We are accepted based on
28:49
Christ's righteousness alone, not our works.
28:51
And what about assurance? Can someone know they are saved
28:54
in this life? Yes, because salvation is
28:56
entirely God's work from start to finish of the Lord.
28:59
As Jonas said, those whom God has genuinely saved through
29:01
Christ will be kept by his power and will persevere in faith to
29:05
the end. Therefore, assurance of
29:07
salvation is possible. It's grounded not on the ups and
29:10
downs of our personal performance, our feelings, or
29:13
our accumulation of ordinances, but on the objective reality of
29:16
Christ's finished work imputed to us the promises of God and
29:20
the gospel and the internal witness of the Holy Spirit
29:23
confirming our adoption. This provides true peace with
29:25
God now. And the idea of proxy ordinances
29:29
work for the dead. How does reformed theology view
29:32
that? Reformed theology recognizes
29:35
only two sacraments instituted by Christ in the New Testament,
29:38
baptism in the Lord's Supper. These are signs and seals of the
29:41
covenant of grace. They visibly represent gospel
29:44
truths and confirm God's promises to believers.
29:47
They are made effective by the Holy Spirit working through
29:49
faith in the recipient, not by a mere performance of the ritual
29:52
itself. Ex Opry operato, there is no
29:55
biblical basis for proxy ordinances performed on behalf
29:58
of the deceased. Because judgement happens after
30:00
death. Yes, Hebrews 9.27 clearly states
30:04
it is appointed for man to die once and after that comes
30:07
judgement. This biblical teaching negates
30:10
any possibility of post mortem salvation, probation, or
30:13
advancement through rituals performed by the living.
30:16
Once a person dies, their eternal state is fixed based on
30:19
their relationship to Christ in this life.
30:22
OK, so here we have another set of classic false friends.
30:25
Words like gospel, grace, salvation, even sin and
30:28
atonement carry fundamentally different meanings.
30:31
Precisely when engaging in conversation, it's absolutely
30:34
vital to clarify what a latter day St. means by gospel.
30:37
Is it the finished good news of Christ saving work for sinners?
30:41
Or is it the step by step plan requiring faith, repentance,
30:44
baptism, ordinances, and enduring to the end?
30:47
Similarly with grace, does it mean God's unmerited favor that
30:50
justifies the ungodly freely through Christ?
30:52
Or does it mean God's enabling power given to help people meet
30:55
the conditions for exaltation? These different definitions lead
30:58
to entirely different religious systems and different ways of
31:00
relating to God. Let's shift focus now to the
31:03
church, ecclesiology and worship.
31:05
Mormonism presents itself as the restoration of the true Church.
31:09
What does that look like practically in their structure
31:11
and practices? Yeah, the concept of Restoration
31:14
is foundational to Mormonism. They claim that the original
31:17
Church, established by Christ with its proper authority and
31:20
priesthood power, fell into complete apostasy and vanished
31:23
from the earth shortly after the apostles died.
31:26
Therefore, a restoration was necessary, which they believe
31:29
happened through the Prophet Joseph Smith in the 19th
31:31
century. And this restoration involves
31:33
specific authority. Yes, it centers on a living
31:37
prophet who holds unique priesthood authority believed to
31:39
be restored. Ironic and Melchizedek orders,
31:42
this priesthood is seen as the power and authority God gives to
31:45
act in His name for the salvation of humanity.
31:48
It confers the authority to perform sacred ordinances,
31:51
administer the Church, receive revelation, and govern the
31:54
temples. Temple ordinances performed
31:56
under the specific authority like endowments, eternal
31:59
marriage ceilings, baptisms for the dead are considered
32:02
essential covenantal means for achieving exaltation.
32:05
It sounds like the temple is incredibly central to their
32:08
worship and practice. It absolutely is.
32:11
Temple centered piety is a hallmark of active Latter day
32:13
St. life. Worship involves regular church
32:16
attendance, but the temple represents the most sacred space
32:19
and activities. This includes participation in
32:22
temple dramas depicting the plan of salvation, receiving the
32:25
endowment, a series of symbolic instructions, covenants and
32:29
promised blessings, being sealed in marriage for eternity, and
32:33
performing proxy ordinances. For deceased ancestors.
32:37
The temple is the focus for their highest covenants and
32:40
rituals. This idea of a completely
32:42
vanished church needing restoration, and this focus on
32:44
new temple rites and specific priesthood authority, it sounds
32:47
very different from the traditional Christian
32:49
understanding of the church and worship.
32:51
What's the Reformed view? It is very different from a
32:54
Reformed perspective. The understanding of the church
32:57
and worship is governed primarily by Scripture,
32:59
particularly what's often called the regulative principle of
33:02
worship. This principle raises the
33:04
question, what has God actually commanded for worship in his
33:07
Word? First, Christ alone is the Head
33:10
and King of the Church. The Church Universal is 1 Holy
33:14
Catholic, meaning universal, not Roman Catholic and Apostolic.
33:19
It's invisible in terms of the whole number of the elect
33:22
throughout history, but visible wherever the Gospel is truly
33:25
preached, the sacraments rightly administered and disciplined,
33:28
practiced. So the church never vanished.
33:30
Christ promised He would build his church and the gets of hell
33:33
would not prevail against it. Matthew 16.18.
33:36
So Reformed theology affirms Christ preserves His church
33:39
throughout all ages. It can never be totally
33:41
destroyed or disappear from the earth.
33:43
This directly challenges the Restorationist claim.
33:45
Church government is seen as ministerial.
33:47
Church officers are ministers of the Word, serving Christ and His
33:50
people according to Scripture. They don't rule independently or
33:54
have authority to introduce new binding doctrines or ordinances
33:57
beyond Scripture. And the regulative principle,
34:01
how does that shape worship? The regulative principle states
34:04
that in corporate worship we should include only those
34:07
elements that God has explicitly commanded or instituted in
34:11
Scripture. It's not about what we find
34:13
helpful or meaningful, but about what God has prescribed.
34:17
If he hasn't commanded it for worship, we shouldn't include
34:19
it. So what is God commanded?
34:22
The elements clearly prescribed in the New Testament for public
34:24
worship are the reading and preaching of the Word of God,
34:27
which is central prayer, both corporate and private, the
34:31
singing of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, and the right
34:35
administration of the two sacraments instituted by Christ,
34:38
Baptism, and the Lord's Supper. On appropriate occasions, things
34:41
like fasting or Thanksgiving might also be observed.
34:44
What does this mean for things like temple dramas or
34:46
endowments? Because the New Covenant in
34:49
Christ fulfills and supersedes the Old Testament ceremonial
34:52
law, including the temple system and its specific priesthood, the
34:56
Reformed view excludes things like temple dramas, endowments,
34:59
specific ritual clothing, or other ceremonial editions that
35:03
God has not commanded for New Covenant worship.
35:06
Christ's perfect priesthood and sacrifice have ended the need
35:09
for an earthly temple and its associated rituals.
35:12
As argued throughout Hebrews, access to God is now direct
35:15
through Christ. By faith, the veil was torn.
35:18
Reintroducing specific temple rites is seen as implying the
35:21
insufficiency of Christ's finished work on the cross and
35:24
misunderstanding the nature of the Church as God's spiritual
35:27
temple composed of believers. And only two sacraments you
35:30
mentioned. Yes, Baptism and the Lord's
35:32
Supper are the only two sacraments instituted by Christ
35:35
for His Church. They are signs and seals of the
35:38
covenant of grace, pointing to Christ and his benefits,
35:41
confirming God's promises, and strengthening faith.
35:44
They are effective through the Spirit and received by faith.
35:47
And again, no proxy ordinances. Worship is primarily focused on
35:51
the ordinary means of grace, Word, sacrament, prayer,
35:55
particularly gathered together on the Lord's Day, which is set
35:57
apart for this purpose. OK, Lastly, let's touch on
36:00
eschatology, the understanding of last things or eternal
36:03
destiny. How did these theological
36:05
differences play out there? What does Mormonism teach about
36:07
what happens after death? Mormon eschatology is quite
36:10
distinct, centered on concepts of progression and multiple
36:13
levels of glory. They teach that after death and
36:16
resurrection, individuals will be assigned to one of several
36:19
kingdoms or degrees of glory. The highest is the celestial
36:23
Kingdom, which is where exaltation, becoming like God,
36:26
potential godhood, eternal family life is possible for the
36:29
most faithful. Below that are the terrestrial
36:32
and terrestrial kingdoms, representing lesser degrees of
36:35
glory but still considered forms of salvation.
36:38
There's also an outer darkness for the most wicked.
36:40
And this involves ongoing progression.
36:42
Yes, the concept of eternal progression is significant.
36:45
It suggests that even within these kingdoms, individuals can
36:48
continue to learn, grow, and progress eternally.
36:51
Exaltation itself is often linked tightly to participation
36:55
in temple ordinances and eternal marriage ceilings performed by
36:58
proper priesthood authority, including those done by proxy
37:01
for the dead. Marriage itself is believed to
37:04
continue into eternity for those sealed in the temple.
37:06
Multiple kingdoms, eternal progression, potential godhood,
37:11
eternal marriage. How does that compare with the
37:14
Reformed view of what happens after this life?
37:16
What is our ultimate hope? The Reformed view based on
37:19
biblical eschatology, presents a much starker contrast, typically
37:23
affirming only two final fixed destinies.
37:27
It raises the question, what is our true and certain eternal
37:30
hope? According to Scripture, at death
37:33
the body returns to dust, but the soul continues in conscious
37:36
existence. The souls of the righteous,
37:39
those who are in Christ by faith, are immediately made
37:42
perfect in holiness and go directly into the presence of
37:45
Christ, experiencing conscious joy and rest.
37:48
And the souls of the wicked. The souls of the wicked, those
37:51
who die apart from Christ, are immediately cast into hell,
37:54
enduring conscious torment while awaiting the final judgment.
37:57
There is no purgatory, no spirit prison where further chances are
38:00
given, no post mortem probation. Again, Hebrews 9.27 die once,
38:04
and after that comes judgment. What about the resurrection and
38:07
final judgment? At the last day, at Christ's
38:09
return, God will raise it all, the dead, both the righteous and
38:13
the wicked. They will be resurrected in the
38:15
same bodies they had in life. Though transformed.
38:18
Those in Christ will be raised to everlasting life and glory.
38:21
Those outside of Christ will be raised to everlasting judgment
38:24
and condemnation. Christ Himself will then judge
38:27
the entire world in righteousness.
38:29
This judgment will be according to works, but works serve as the
38:32
public evidence of 1's true relationship, or lack thereof,
38:35
to Christ by faith, not as the meritorious ground of salvation.
38:39
The verdict of this final judgment is absolute,
38:41
irreversible, and eternally fixes 1's destiny.
38:44
And the hope for believers. What is the eternal state like?
38:48
The ultimate hope set before the Saints is not becoming gods, but
38:52
dwelling eternally with God in the new heavens and the new
38:55
earth where righteousness dwells.
38:57
Our highest joy will be the beatific vision, seeing God face
39:00
to face, enjoying perfect communion with the Triune God.
39:03
Importantly, the creator creature distinction remains
39:06
forever. We will be glorified, perfected,
39:09
sharing in Christ's glory by virtue of our union with Him,
39:12
but we will never become divine beings ourselves or absorbed
39:15
into the divine essence. God remains God, we remain his
39:19
glorified creatures. Scripture recognizes only two
39:22
final destinies, heaven or hell, and rejects post mortem
39:26
ordinances or progression between kingdoms.
39:28
And Jesus explicitly taught that in the resurrection, people
39:32
neither marry nor are given in marriage.
39:34
This has been an incredibly detailed comparison,
39:36
highlighting just how significant the differences are.
39:38
It really underscores the need for clarity.
39:40
How do we even begin to approach conversations about these
39:43
things? What method does reformed
39:45
theology suggest? That's a great question.
39:48
The approach needs to be principled, focusing on truth,
39:51
but also charitable methodologically.
39:53
It starts with our ultimate standard for Reformed theology.
39:57
Holy Scripture, the 66 books of the Bible, is the only
40:00
infallible rule of faith and life.
40:02
It's sufficient for everything necessary for God's glory and
40:05
our salvation, faith and practice.
40:07
Scripture is the supreme judge by which all controversies of
40:10
religion are to be determined, and all decrees of counsels,
40:14
opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private
40:17
spirits are to be examined. So scripture is the ultimate
40:21
authority. How do we interpret it rightly?
40:23
Through sound hermeneutics, principles of interpretation, we
40:26
employ what's often called a grammatical historical method.
40:29
This means we seek to understand the original meaning intended by
40:32
the human author in its historical and grammatical
40:34
context, considering the words, syntax, genre, setting.
40:38
But we also interpret Scripture canonically, recognizing that
40:41
the Bible is 1 unified revelation from one divine
40:43
author, God Himself. Therefore, Scripture interprets
40:46
Scripture. Clearer passages illuminate less
40:49
clear passages. This is the analogia Fidae, the
40:52
analogy of faith ensuring coherence.
40:54
And we should focus on the theology, not get sidetracked.
40:57
Right. It's important to distinguish
40:58
theological judgments evaluating doctrines based on Scripture
41:02
from, say, sociological observations or debates about
41:05
archaeology or historical claims related to the Book of.
41:09
While those might come up, the core focus should be on
41:12
comparing of the doctrinal content.
41:13
Who is God, what is the gospel with the clear teaching of the
41:17
Bible. OK, so with those methods as a
41:19
foundation scripture alone, interpreted carefully, how do we
41:24
actually engage with Latter Day Saints in conversation?
41:27
How can we be clear about truth, but also gracious and loving?
41:31
That's the crucial balance, isn't it?
41:33
It requires a posture of speaking the truth and love, as
41:35
Ephesians 4 puts it. Clarity without caricature,
41:38
courage combined with courtesy. This leads to the practical
41:42
question, how can we be precise and kind at the same time?
41:45
First, as we've stressed, define those false friends and core
41:48
terms right away. Recognize the vocabulary overlap
41:51
the conceptual divergent God, grace, gospel, atonement,
41:55
prophet, priesthood, salvation. They mean different things.
41:57
So start by asking clarifying questions exactly.
42:00
When you use the word grace, can you tell me what that means to
42:03
you? Does it mean God's free favor
42:05
that saves sinners? Or more like enabling power to
42:09
help keep commandments? Gently clarifying terms prevents
42:12
talking past each other and surfaces the real differences
42:15
respectfully. And focusing on the main issues.
42:17
Yes, try to focus on those core doctrinal distinctions.
42:21
We mentioned the three doors. Who is God?
42:23
What is the gospel? Where is the true church or
42:26
authority? Concentrating on these
42:29
foundational issues is usually more productive than getting
42:32
lost in peripheral debates. And keep bringing it back to the
42:34
Bible. Always emphasize that Holy
42:37
Scripture is the ultimate standard.
42:39
Invite them to read passages together, maybe key texts like
42:42
Isaiah 4345 on God's unique oneness, John one or Colossians
42:46
one on Christ's eternal deity, Romans 3 to 5 or Galatians on
42:50
justification by faith alone, Hebrews 710 on Christ's final
42:54
sufficient priesthood. Ask open-ended questions about
42:57
the text. What do you see this passage
42:59
saying about who God is? Or according to Paul here in
43:02
Romans, how is a person made right with God?
43:04
Let the scripture speak. How should we address their
43:06
claims about continuing revelation or that burning in
43:10
the bosom experience? Gently, you can contrast the
43:14
subjective nature of feelings with the objective testimony of
43:17
the Holy Spirit who bears witness by and with the written
43:21
word in our hearts. You can also gently introduce
43:24
the biblical test for any purported new revelation we
43:26
talked about as it aligned doctrinally with Scripture.
43:29
Deuteronomy 13. Galatians One.
43:31
Has the prophet been 100% accurate in predictions?
43:34
Deuteronomy 18. And always keep Christ central.
43:37
Absolutely keep the conversation centered on the person and work
43:40
of Jesus Christ, especially the finished nature of His
43:43
sacrifice. Once for all completed
43:46
sufficient. He is seated because the work is
43:48
done. This also opens the door to
43:50
discuss assurance. You could ask kindly, if you
43:53
were to die tonight, what is your hope based on for being
43:55
accepted by God? Then you can share the good news
43:58
of assurance grounded not in our works or ordinances, but solely
44:01
in Christ's imputed righteousness, received by
44:04
faith, sealed by the Spirit. What should we try to avoid?
44:07
Avoid getting bogged down in arguments about archaeology,
44:10
historical criticisms of Joseph Smith, or other Bipads,
44:14
especially at the beginning. Focus on the theological
44:17
substance and maintain a genuinely patient, humble, and
44:20
caring tone. Avoid sarcasm, condescension, or
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trying to win debating points. Listen well.
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Pray for them. Any practical tips?
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Seek common ground where possible to build rapport.
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Ask permission before opening a Bible or sharing a different
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perspective. Maybe offer to read a chapter
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together next time. Be honest.
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If you don't know an answer, you can always look it up.
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Pray for wisdom, gentleness, boldness, and for the Holy
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Spirit to open their hearts to the biblical gospel.
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Some find it helpful to have brief notes or one pagers handy,
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maybe comparing key doctrines to finding false friends, listing
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key scriptures just to help keep the conversation clear,
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charitable, and focused on God's Word.
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This deep dive has certainly shown us that while words might
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sound the same, the underlying theological concepts between
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Mormonism and Reformed Christianity can be truly worlds
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apart. It just highlights how vital it
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is to define our terms and always, always return to
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Scripture as our sole infallible guide.
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It does, and really, this whole discussion raises an important
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question for you, our listener, to reflect on.
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What does it truly mean for you to rest your soul fully and
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completely on the sure and finished promises of God,
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accomplished in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone?
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Ultimately, engaging with Mormonism really forces us as
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Christians to clarify our own first principles.
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And that's what this deep dive aim to help with today.
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Showing clearly how Reformed theology understands God as the
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one simple, eternal, unchanging Creator.
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How the Son Jesus Christ is eternally God who took on human
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nature. How the Holy Spirit inspired a
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closed and sufficient Bible and now illumines that word rather
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than adding new revelations to it.
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And because these redefinitions found in Mormonism touch the
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very foundations who God is, who Christ is, how sinners are
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justified and made right with God, what the Church is, and how
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God commands to worship him, it becomes clear that Mormonism
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must be understood not just as a different denomination, but as a
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distinct religion proclaiming A fundamentally different gospel
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from the one revealed in the Bible.
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We encourage you to continue to test everything by Scripture, to
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read these biblical passages for yourself, and above all, to rest
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your soul with confidence on the sure promises of God found in
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the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Thank you for joining us for
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this deep dive. We hope it's equipped you to
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understand these crucial distinctions with both clarity
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and genuine care. Join us next time for another
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deep dive into the truths that matter most.