Latest / The Sober Creative Podcast / Episode 038 - Living Above a Bar: A Dutch Medicine Woman’s Journey to Visibility and Sobriety

Transcript

Episode 038 - Living Above a Bar: A Dutch Medicine Woman’s Journey to Visibility and Sobriety · The Sober Creative Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome everyone to the Sober Creative Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: This is Clear Conversations,
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Creative Minds and Sobriety,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: where we explore the unexpected advantages of clear-minded living.
• 0:11
  My guest today is Inge Vandegraaf,
• 0:14
  connecting in from Drenthe in the Netherlands.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Inge is a trauma therapist,
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: guide,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: and what she now calls herself,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: after years of hiding behind safer titles,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: a medicine woman and gatekeeper.
• 0:28
  She works with regression therapy,
• 0:30
  plant medicine ceremonies,
• 0:32
  and deep subconscious healing.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: And her practice is called De Reis naar Binnen - the journey inward.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: And her office isn't in some sterile clinic.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's in the forest of Drenthe,
• 0:48
  in a place she describes as restful and healing even before the work begins.
• 0:53
  But here's what makes Inga's story particularly compelling for this
• 0:57
  conversation.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: She lives above a bar.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: Not near one, above one.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: The ground floor of her home is De Amer,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: a cultural cafe and music venue with a fully stocked bar,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: velvet curtains,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: and decades of history.
• 1:14
  When Inge first joined the Sober Creative Reset experience,
• 1:18
  she wasn't just navigating sobriety.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: She was doing it while walking past shelves of liquor every single day.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Inga spent most of her life terrified of being seen.
• 1:30
  She named her practice after a tree,
• 1:32
  Thuja,
• 1:34
  because it felt safer than using her own name.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: She called herself a regression therapist because it was explainable,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: professional,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: and contained.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: But the work she actually does goes far deeper,
• 1:48
  guiding people across thresholds from conscious problems to unconscious
• 1:53
  origins,
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: from who they think they should be to who they actually are.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: A year ago,
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: she made the shift,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: changed her business name to Praktijk van Inge,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: I butchered that,
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: but started calling herself medicine woman,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: gatekeeper,
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: guide.
• 2:12
  And the fear of rejection that she calls her life theme showed up louder than
• 2:17
  ever.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: What we're going to talk about today isn't just sobriety.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's about what becomes possible when you stop performing safety.
• 2:26
  When you work with plant medicine and trauma integration while living in a
• 2:30
  space
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: designed for people to drink.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: When you finally let yourself be seen.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: Not as a polished professional, but as a person doing the actual work.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Inge, welcome to Clear Conversations.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, thank you for that introduction.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: That was wonderful.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you polished up on your Dutch, didn't you?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: I practiced a little bit this morning.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was really fun practicing, too.
• 3:02
  I was jumping in the translation app and hitting play and listening to it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was fun.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for that opportunity.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, thank you for having me.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's an honor.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: And...
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so, okay, let's jump into it.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: So tell me,
• 3:22
  walk me back in your early stages of drinking and when that started and what
• 3:29
  that
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: looked like and all that,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking about that,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: but I remember when I was 14,
• 3:40
  my parents were out for the weekend and I bought myself a bottle of sherry.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought it was totally disgusting,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: but I drank it anyway because really like...
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Hey,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: what happened?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're back.
• 4:02
  I think there was some instability in,
• 4:04
  you know,
• 4:05
  it's a long,
• 4:06
  long ways to the Netherlands.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: But so, yeah, that's when it started, I guess.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: And over time, there have been periods that I wasn't drinking at all.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: And there have been times that I was using alcohol to numb myself,
• 4:24
  to not feel how unhappy I was or that things in life were too much for me,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: too challenging.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that's, yeah, it's been a journey.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Is that something you would be okay with sharing?
• 4:45
  Anything in particular that was uncomfortable for you that drinking
• 4:53
  helped?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there has been.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: You said it in the introduction.
• 5:01
  A fear of being visible and not living the life that I would like for myself.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this would show up as an uneasiness in me.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: As I was married,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: I had two young kids,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was a housewife,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was taking care of everything,
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: and I kept telling myself,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: this is the life I choose over anything.
• 5:34
  I'm happy,
• 5:35
  I have two great kids,
• 5:36
  this is a loving husband,
• 5:38
  blah,
• 5:38
  blah,
• 5:38
  blah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: But
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: It really wasn't what I was meant to do or how I was meant to live.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Rather than being honest with myself and saying,
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: what's going on,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: I would start to drink just to not feel that.
• 6:02
  Because with things that I really wanted to do,
• 6:06
  I would have to be visible.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would have to show up.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And, yeah, that was so scary that I just was not going to do that.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: What were some of those things that you wanted to do?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the things I'm doing now, for example.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right here.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're here.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what really made me question alcohol in particular was about,
• 6:42
  it's about nine and a half years ago when I was diagnosed with a throat tumor.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: I had cancer in my throat.
• 6:53
  And I remember sitting with the oncologist and she asked me,
• 6:57
  do you smoke?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Do you drink?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, well, you know, the odd glass.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I was...
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was completely lying.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was drinking way more than was good for me.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I had a bottle of whiskey always ready.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be functioning.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'd go to my job,
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: do my work,
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: take care of the kids and everything,
• 7:26
  but that bottle would always be sitting there ready for me when I came home.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Although it was a massive lie,
• 7:38
  I realized that alcohol probably had something to do with this tumor in my
• 7:44
  throat.
• 7:46
  I also realized that when things show up here,
• 7:50
  it has to do with expressing oneself.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't expressing myself.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was keeping everything, well, just below the throat.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: to say.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't speak up.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say what I really wanted.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was making myself small.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Drinking was a way of coping with that.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's so incredibly powerful what you just shared.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's this mechanism that is a way of comforting us.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: But then at the same time, it's like harming us.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just so culturally norm that it's just a go-to that, wow, wow.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so from that, that was about nine years ago.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's just been off and on that you've
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: You've been drinking and such.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's jump into where you live.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because I found that so fascinating.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: You live directly underneath the bar.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so how long have you been living there?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Eight years.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: A little over eight years.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: You've always had access to it whenever you want.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a front door.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: I come in through the back,
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: through the kitchen of the cafe,
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: and I walk right that incredibly fully stocked,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: a stock room with all the bottles there.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then there is a door to my house.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the cafe is open in weekends from Friday to Sunday.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: And in the summer, a few days more.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: But so usually we have the place to ourselves.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Dancing on the bar.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just picturing you both.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: I had the pleasure of meeting your partner this past month.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm imagining you both dancing on the bar.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:22
  togivesomeviewerssomecontextthispastmonthiilaunchedmyfirsteverum
• 10:28
  like dry january um reset experience and of the pleasure of inga joining and
• 10:35
  along
• 10:35
  with her partner and this is where i learned about you know her being directly
• 10:40
  next
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: to a bar and so it had you had you um
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Had you practiced abstinence before?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, had you had breaks with alcohol, I think, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I started doing that in 2020.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first time.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it was part of a research program from one of the universities here.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it would come with the whole shmang,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: the daily emails and access to a platform to engage with other people.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: You could join online to listen to people,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: experts,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: either by profession or by experience.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And when I started it,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: because I realized I really needed it,
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was not quite sure if I was going to pull through,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: a whole month,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: the dry January.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was pretty scary.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that alone was enough to make me
• 11:49
  wanttodoitandIthinktheprogramranforabouttwoorthreeyearsandthenit
• 11:56
  stopped and by that time I was in the habit of you know starting the year sober
• 12:03
  and
• 12:05
  I continued but I did miss the group thing I missed the emails I missed the
• 12:12
  support
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: the non-judgmental approach that uh
• 12:19
  i had received previously and so when you came with the reset it was like oh
• 12:25
  yeah
• 12:25
  i'm going to join that because it's going to be wonderful and i'm i'm very
• 12:30
  happyi
• 12:31
  did yeah it um it you know it was it was a really beautiful experience because
• 12:40
  it's
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: you know we're
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: everybody from all over the world and different reasons of,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: why they drink and I just,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: waking up each day and seeing the comments and the support,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: and the insights and stuff was just so cool.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: that was extremely valuable,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: especially getting in the WhatsApp group the perspective from everybody,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: the different angles that they were dealing with it and looking at it and
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: That made me think a lot, too.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Previously,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: when I would do a reset,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: sometimes it would prolong for as long as,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: four months or five months.
• 13:29
  But never with the intention to keep doing that forever or for the rest of my
• 13:36
  life.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's...
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: with this last reset because it got me thinking so much and very aware.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've become more aware of when the unease starts,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: and when the thought comes up,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: I would like a drink.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Wouldn't a glass of wine be nice?
• 14:01
  And then to stop and think about it and just feel it and make it into a choice.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: What am I going to do?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Am I going to,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: have it or not.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And for the first time,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: this could go on for a very,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: very long time because I really don't need it anymore.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So why start again if
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: I lost that last part.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think the internet connection.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: You said, why start again?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: If I know if it's not beneficial for my health.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's keeping me from really feeling what's going on inside of me.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:59
  One thing that stood out too that you shared was the holidays came around and
• 15:06
  your
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: kids visited.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Do you mind sharing a bit about that experience?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was last month and our kids came with their partners.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: We do that every January.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: We love having them and they stay over from Friday to Sunday and
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a lot of merriment.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: We all get along very well, which is quite nice.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: My partner and I have children with different partners, ex-partners.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: But they all get along very well.
• 15:48
  And so we do a lot of cooking together and watching movies,
• 15:52
  playing games.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: And there's always alcohol around, too.
• 15:57
  And we were discussing,
• 15:59
  well,
• 15:59
  we're in a reset,
• 16:00
  both of us,
• 16:01
  and what do we do?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do we buy the beer and the wine or won't we?
• 16:05
  And we said,
• 16:08
  well,
• 16:08
  it's not up to us to decide whether they're drinking or not.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: My son has definitely an issue with alcohol.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: One of our sons-in-law also, so,
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: What do you do?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you take them?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm not going to finish this sentence.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a matter of responsibility, and they're adults.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we said, no, we'll stock up for them, and we'll see how it goes.
• 16:43
  And I decided not to drink,
• 16:46
  so did my partner,
• 16:47
  and that was no problem at all for nobody.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: It went very well.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And actually,
• 16:58
  wewereleftwithawholecrateofbeerstillfilledandfourbottlesofwine
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: unopened.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So they drank very little as well.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just love that you're able to share in that experience.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it's still like...
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: leave it up to choice for both yourselves and them too.
• 17:26
  And it's nice that they get to be a part of seeing your intentions with that
• 17:33
  time
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: together and it's still so much merriment with it.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna pop in the chat.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: and see.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: This was a while earlier in our conversation,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: but I just want to acknowledge that Rachel said,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: thank you for naming this Inge.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: I know that place too, and it's uncomfortable.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: So good, you can be visible now.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: So just wanted to acknowledge that.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And hi, Phil, and Rick, and Carolina.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you all for joining.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, tell me, tell me what, like, I want to talk about your work some.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I feel like there's so much creativity.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: I noticed,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: too,
• 18:30
  that you posted in our chat pictures of these pieces that are hanging on the
• 18:40
  wall
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: that's behind you,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: that's directly behind you.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Did you make that?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tell me about that.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what do you want to know?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: That'll make it easier for me.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, I don't know what I'm seeing.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I guess kind of give me a little background on that.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then how do you make them and all that and that.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: When I have certain experiences that are very special to me,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: usually they have to do with some kind of ceremony.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: It could either be a sweat lodge or plant medicine.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: I like to make something out of it, to have it visible.
• 19:34
  And so these three things that are hanging on the wall behind me,
• 19:38
  they're like shields.
• 19:42
  and the one you're seeing right now is one that I made after an ayahuasca
• 19:47
  ceremony,
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: and I use felt most of the time,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: wet felt,
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: wool.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I start from scratch,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: and I build the picture using my hands,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: using the wool,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: choosing the colors.
• 20:03
  Do you have any reference,
• 20:07
  like you're going off of,
• 20:08
  or just kind of letting it flow?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: it starts with an idea,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: but as creativity flows,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: it never comes out the way I have it in my head.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: the way I picture it beforehand,
• 20:25
  theworkcreatesitselfinawaybyjustgoingaboutitandhavingtheselittle
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: ideas,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: I could do this,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: I could use that,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: so that,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: So beautiful.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'll share a photo of that in our post with this after.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, great.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's nice.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:52
  And usually after I've done the felting,
• 20:56
  I work a little with it on my sewing machine.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can't see it behind me.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: What way am I pointing?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: so,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: but this one has the flower of life,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: embroidered into it and lots of shiny,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: shiny pearls and beads and stuff.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you have that.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, go ahead.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, go ahead.
• 21:30
  I was just saying,
• 21:31
  I just love that you have that,
• 21:32
  that practice and I was just curious on,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: like your creativity, how that shows up in your work as well.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll share a little story with you.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Some time ago,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was in a ceremony myself with plant medicine,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: with psilocybin,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: with the little truffles,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: and
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: At one stage, I came into the place of not knowing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I realized I don't know, and that was such a bliss.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was standing in the room here going to Ton,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: he usually accompanies me when I do these things,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: and I was just like,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't know.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't it wonderful that I don't know?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that stayed with me, and that is how I work too.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: When I started my practice,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I would think about the client that's coming,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: and I need to do a session such and such,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: and we need to go to a past life or inner child work,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: and I would have it all framed up,
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: and then they would show up.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And nine times out of ten,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Something completely different was necessary for them.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: So what I do now is I show up in my, I don't know.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what's going to happen.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what they bring to the table.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I work with or where we work from.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's what they're bringing me.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then I see what is needed.
• 23:30
  And very often when I'm in a session with a client,
• 23:33
  I find myself going very slowly like this.
• 23:38
  And then that's for me the sign that I'm in a good place because then I'm
• 23:42
  listening
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: to what I'm being told rather than what I'm thinking should be done.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: That is beautiful.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Can you do that?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: That is so good.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely relate.
• 23:56
  And,
• 23:56
  you know,
• 23:57
  even Paul is saying,
• 23:58
  like,
• 23:59
  I don't know,
• 23:59
  it's a beautiful place to be.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: It leaves so much room for possibility and co-creation.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So co-creation happens when I feel this movement.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love that it's just like a subtle connection with your body,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: and it's just kind of flowing and connected.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: because I mean,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: I noticed that myself with clients of,
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: before the call happens,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: you can easily get in there and be like,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: how's it going to be?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how should I direct?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, stuff like that.
• 24:39
  But,
• 24:39
  you know,
• 24:41
  it's really sitting back and listening and being open to curiosity.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like...
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: So now that you're continuing this journey,
• 25:00
  have you noticed throughout this past month any differences with your work
• 25:11
  andhow
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: you feel with that?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, not that I can think of.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's more my private life.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think you were about... Are you going on a trip here soon?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, that's where you're heading.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that's private life.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm going on a trip this Friday for a week.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: We're having a short holiday.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And previous holidays would always be have a bottle of whiskey,
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: have a few bottles of wine with us.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And this time we looked at each other and said, what are we going to do?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: And both of us went, uh-uh.
• 26:07
  We'll leave them where they are in the store and have a holiday without
• 26:12
  alcohol.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a big difference, yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: So both of you had the intentions this past month.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: What were some things that you occupied your time with that replaced
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: choosing or having a drink and such?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: I took up walking and Qigong, my Qigong practice.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely missed that, but sometimes I can get in the...
• 27:13
  verymuchinmyheadthinkingIneedtodothisandIneedtodothatandthat's
• 27:18
  all more important than exercising which is total crap so that and yeah I
• 27:28
  started
• 27:28
  drawing again so that's you know in the evenings for relaxation I love that
• 27:38
  stuff
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: like that yeah
• 27:42
  so good um creativity definitely started to flow again it's it's if i can
• 27:49
  summarize
• 27:50
  that yeah yeah it's it's such a lovely practice to to tap into and i feel like
• 28:00
  you
• 28:00
  knowitshowsupinsomanydifferentwaysyouknowinourourlivessoumyeah
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: well
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: But that's a great abundance we received or I received from the reset.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: You did a good job.
• 28:19
  I loved your emails because they were short and concise and just the one
• 28:25
  question
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: to ponder over and then move on with the day.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: That was wonderful.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you're welcome.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was...
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking about those and how to implement them.
• 28:41
  Ithinkaboutthisdailyofhowdifferentofaworldweliveintowherethere's
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: just so much to choose from and so much information and stuff to take in.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely wanted to be intentional about it being short.
• 29:02
  andgivingthespacetokindofopenupwithjustaquestionthatyoucantake
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: throughout the day.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, I really, really appreciate that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: the fact that I get to do this again,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: like three more times throughout the year,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there'll be three more.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any plans for that?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: For the three?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Something different?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to reflect this month on this one and how it went,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: and then determine if I want to do different themes for each one.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of lean.
• 29:52
  ininthatdirectionumbutapartofmelikestodoalotandandandspread
• 30:00
  myself out why and so but i do love a good challenge and i think it would be
• 30:05
  really
• 30:07
  reallycooltohavekindofkeepthethingsthatworkreallywellyouknowbut
• 30:12
  maybe modify some things and try some different things you know in each one
• 30:17
  andum
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: it was nice through this experience as well that,
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: we would meet weekly and each week,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: provide a meditation.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: And some of those meditations had music, some didn't have music.
• 30:35
  And so I explored with those and then to,
• 30:38
  you know,
• 30:39
  kind of structure of the calls.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: where it would be kind of going over,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: sharing my screen,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: kind of a theme with the week,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: and then jumping right into the meditation.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: And the last meeting that we had,
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: I shared my screen,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: but then we opened it up for connecting with what was on the screen,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: and then the dialogue back and forth.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like,
• 31:06
  that was more powerful than just me talking about it and so yeah definitely
• 31:12
  learned
• 31:12
  a lot and and want to apply that um moving forward and there is someone that
• 31:20
  i've
• 31:20
  connected with recently that um collaborating with that might be a part of
• 31:26
  future
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: resets and so i can't
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Can't really say that information yet.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: We'll leave that as a surprise and in development,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: but it's going to be beautiful moving forward,
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: for sure.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is important to have these things.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: I recall the research program that I talked about, Christy.
• 31:52
  We had to fill out these questionnaires once or twice a year about our
• 31:58
  behavior.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: towards alcohol,
• 32:01
  andoneoftheoutcomesoftheprogramwasthatdefinitelynoteverybodyquit
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: drinking altogether,
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: but most of the people were drinking less,
• 32:17
  and they were more conscious of alcohol and the role it played in their lives.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're doing these resets throughout the year,
• 32:28
  imagine what an impact that can have yeah yeah and it's it's you know it's like
• 32:35
  you
• 32:37
  know for me and and my choice you know this being five years that i've been
• 32:41
  doing
• 32:41
  this it's it's you know it's it's something that's just continuously gives
• 32:47
  backum
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: But,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: at the same time,
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: it's like I want people to experience it on their own terms,
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: of...
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you want to go back to drinking, that's okay.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you want to try it for a little while, that's okay.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you're having one or two during the reset, that's okay.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's on your terms.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: to have that autonomy and such and,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: throughout,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think is a really important aspect of it.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Be a good year.
• 33:29
  Well,
• 33:30
  thank you so much for your time and sharing this and being here with us.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: I loved it.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: You're welcome.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Making myself more visible.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you did this.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about that, didn't we?
• 34:00
  yeahokaybutitwasawasagoodchallengeyesanditwassogoodandyesPaul
• 34:10
  sayskeepstayingvisiblesoyeahokaywellyeahI'llleaveifanyonehasany
• 34:17
  questions please feel free to pop them in the chat and in the meantime Inga if
• 34:23
  you
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: want to let people know where to find you and um
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: All that good stuff would be great.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Are people interested in the Dutch website?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: We could just start speaking a Dutch and we'll see what.
• 34:50
  Maybe you can put it up with whatever you're going to put up with this video
• 34:57
  once it's done.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think that'll be easier.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see any doubt.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no problem.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll definitely share that information.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, thank you again.
• 35:16
  And thanks,
• 35:17
  everyone,
• 35:17
  for joining and wishing you a beautiful rest of your week.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.