Latest / Real Investor Radio Podcast / Ep 57 | Residential to Commercial, Self Storage Market, & Capital Raising with Neil Timmins

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Ep 57 | Residential to Commercial, Self Storage Market, & Capital Raising with Neil Timmins · Real Investor Radio Podcast

• Craig Fuhr (00:12) Hey, welcome back to real investor radio. I'm Craig fewer joined again by Jack Bavier of the Dominion Group and real investor roundtable. Jack, good to see you. Jack BeVier (00:21) Absolutely, you too, sir, you too. Craig Fuhr (00:23) Well, let's just jump right in. If folks are listening in right now and you haven't had a chance to go back to the first episode with Neil Timmons from Legacy Impact Investors, I would highly encourage everybody to listen that Neil has quite a story over the last 20 years of starting out in residential real estate, single family, having a lot of success there and then made the pivot as so many real estate investors do Jack into different asset classes. I think There's always this lore of like, well, I've conquered that arena in single family and I just want to start doing things that maybe have more zeros, a little bit more financial impact, better tax structures. And so, Neil, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for taking the time and the second episode with us and I hope everybody enjoys this one. Neil Timmins (01:10) Thanks for having me, I appreciate it. Craig Fuhr (01:12) So we left off on the last episode of your pivot into commercial. First building that you bought was a 17 ,000 square foot industrial building. We talked about a strip center that you purchased. We touched briefly on self storage that you've got and you not one of your favorite assets evidently. And then we also touched briefly on that you own a mobile home park as well. So let's just jump off there. Jack, why don't you take us away here? Jack BeVier (01:42) Yeah. So walk me through the learning curve of these different assets. Like how did you like, you know, just knowing what you don't know, like you, you doing a bunch of reading to do this. You, you go into someone's course to like get, get, you know, to get, do a bootcamp on a particular asset class. And then you figure it out from there. Like walk me through throwing down deposit, get into that, Hey, my EMD goes hard tomorrow and I'm going to let it happen. Like in, in each of those asset classes, like how do you make, how do you make those pivots? Neil Timmins (02:10) Yeah, an industrial building's got four walls and there's a lease in place. And it's just simply, what am I responsible for? A roof, an exterior structure, and that's it. Tenant takes care of absolutely everything else. So in fact, compared to a house, I have way less responsibility associated with it. And then it's just budgeting for that to go, what's it look like? So for me, yes, it's understanding. It really... Getting a really good understanding is where's my exposure? Where's my risk? Where can this go wrong? And is it that complicated or not? And I think some of that is it's not, some of the asset classes, industrial being one of them, it's not that complicated. There's just not, there's not that many moving pieces. Retail is a different story. You got retail fronts and there's just a whole bunch of different things that go into retail. The management side is way more involved than a retail side of things, which is why I brought a third party property manager in for. the strip mall that we acquired to allow them to take care of all of it because it's more involved. But same thing, just go through the lease and go through it all. Understand that in buying deep enough, cures all ales. Right? Any asset, right? So buying deep enough, and so part of that is on, as I went through some of these, especially early on, I was going, Jack BeVier (03:26) Yeah. Neil Timmins (03:36) Okay, well I gotta be deep enough, because I can account for what I think I can account for when I know, but I also need to account for what I don't know and what I'm not sure of, right? And so that's part of it. Jack BeVier (03:46) Yeah. Yeah. Were you buying deep enough on as is value at that time where you were like, Hey, I'm buying this for a million and I know it's worth a million five. So like, it's not, not that, not that you bought it for a million five and you're like, Hey, this seems like a decent deal. And then it went up to two or two and a half. It's that you were, you were getting a deal at the time and that, and that was your warm blanket. Neil Timmins (03:58) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On those first two. Yeah. Yeah, well, I'll give you, let me give you a case study. How about that? So this is the only one I bought that has been on market. All right, so came to market, it was a four pack of properties, orthodontist properties, right? Three of the properties, single tenant. Fourth property, strip mall, orthodontist has one of the spots and there's like seven other tenants. And so very early on that fourth property with the strip mall, Got taken out of the portfolio. They had problems with it. So it came out So there's three properties left and you've got one property that is the showcase property of this whole thing It's worth ballparking 75 % of the value of the whole portfolio and then you got these these two other ones and so everybody wanted the nice one and I was so all the seller only wanted to sell the whole package they don't want to have anything to do with Peacemilling this thing off. So they got a bunch of offers in for one property and I offered on the whole thing the whole kit and caboodle. My contingency was I get to assign the values for all three properties. So I assigned the values to all three properties and then what I did was take the most valuable one and I figured out who was offering on it, because the broker network is small and they talk, and I wholesale that off to the buyer. And then I retained the other two properties which I closed on. And because I could assign the values in such a way that I ended up paying a million and a half total for the two properties that I took down. It appraised the day of closing at two and a half million. And so my lender financed 100 % of the deal. I went to closing with no money down. Jack BeVier (05:52) Local Bank again. Neil Timmins (05:53) Yep. Yep. Jack BeVier (05:56) That is the nice thing about those local, those local balance sheets where you just have to convince them. Now they'll do some off market shit, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. Neil Timmins (06:00) Correct. I mean at some point you got a million dollar spread. I mean how much more, how much more comfort level do you need, right? Jack BeVier (06:13) That's super interesting. Do you think that either still, do you think that those, those same lenders would do that structure today or has given the game like become so much more prevalent that that like that, you know, can it be done today? You know, Neil Timmins (06:20) Da Can it be done today? Maybe is my answer. That particular bank I borrowed a lot from, they know me extraordinarily well. In fact, they were the first bank I ever borrowed a dollar from when I started flipping houses. So they were the first. So they've known me for lots of years and know how I execute. No, we've never had a problem. No, I do what I say. When COVID came around, there was a whole bunch of people calling their bank, getting forbearances, right? It seemed like everybody called the bank, get a forbearance, just kick the can down the road. I took the opposite approach. I thought COVID was gonna be a tremendous opportunity to buy. I thought it was an opportunity to strengthen relationships. So I called all my lenders and said, just so you know, I'm not asking for a forbearance. I'm gonna pay you on time every time, every single month. We're gonna work through this just fine. So I just wanted you to know that I'm gonna do the opposite. I'm not asking for anything. Jack BeVier (07:13) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you know that that phrase, you know, it never hurts to ask. I couldn't disagree more. I completely disagree. I think often it hurts tremendously to ask because it colors you in the eyes of the person that you're asking. And though I understand the point of the question is that, Hey, you got to take your shot. But like if you're asking for some egregious shit though, and you think that that doesn't blow back on your reputation, I just completely disagree with you. So we Neil Timmins (07:46) How long are you playing the game for? The game's to be played forever, till you go out, feet first. Jack BeVier (07:51) We had a same, same, we had a bunch of borrowers who like called during COVID and you know, they were like, Hey, you just wanted to call about your forbearance program. We're like, Hey buddy, we're private. Like we ain't got one. Like, you know, when, when they call us and start forbearing our debt, we'll let you know. But you know, at the moment I'm not counting on it. So don't hold your breath. And then, but we'd also have folks who they would call their lenders that did have forbearance, opportunities, right? Like where it was just like a program, you just had to call and ask and they would do it. But then the problem was like, they, yeah, they gave it to you, but they did put that in the file, right? Like they, they did make a note of that. And then when those guys tried to refine nine months later, they're like, you've got to feel forbearance in the past 18 months. Like, I'm sorry, you're not eligible for refinance. And now they're like, I didn't know. We're like, yeah, buddy. Like, Hey, dumbass, like you didn't need it. You shouldn't have, you shouldn't have made the call in the first place. It was a, it was a greedy thing to do and you're getting banged for it because you know, you, you, you damaged your reputation. I, I, much bigger fan of your approach of calling to being like, Hey, I'm the one I'm calling to let you know that I'm super solid. And if anything goes sideways, you know, I'm your man. Neil Timmins (08:58) There's no such thing as a free lunch. Jack BeVier (09:00) Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So what's your, in, in your, so you've, you've bought, you bought industrial, you bought self storage, you bought talk to me about the mobile homes, man. Like, like that's, that's a look at, in my opinion, that's like a look them in the whites of the eyes, pick up cash business. Like, are you doing that? Or like, you had a manager who's doing that. Craig Fuhr (09:09) Yeah. Neil Timmins (09:18) bought a mobile home park two years ago, 36 pads. Craig Fuhr (09:20) How many units, how many pads? Tenant owned or park owned? Neil Timmins (09:26) There was Do we I think we had one one park owned and then the rest all tenant owned right? Yes about it's in Dubuque about three hours away from where I sit here and We bought this property and my intent was to wholesale this off actually what we bought it And so we we would we went on our contract Two maybe three times with end buyers and everyone them crapped out Craig Fuhr (09:34) fantastic. Neil Timmins (09:55) And so we finally get that in the end, you're like, we think we got a winner here, but nobody's closing on this thing. And so the decision ultimately was made to go, all right, well, let's go figure it out. So I used to use my own money and go, all right, well, I think we got something and it feels like it works. So let's go execute a plan and then we'll go full cycle on it. So went in immediately, rents were like, I don't know, 50 or 60 % below market, we immediately raise rents, like 40 % or 38%, like day one, right? Give them the notice. Everybody was on a month, everybody was on a month. You know what, Craig? Not one person complained. Now, there was not a single complaint, which tells me we didn't raise it enough. Craig Fuhr (10:43) Right. So, so let me let me get the let me get the see if I can get the avatar of the of the park owner 75 year old gray hair guy. Kids didn't want it. You know, they're looking at it as an albatross. Everybody thinks there's a stigma to to mobile home parks are obviously not building any more of them though. And so what did I nail the avatar right on the seller? Jack BeVier (10:43) you You know what I'm talking about. Neil Timmins (11:06) of the seller, yeah, he was like right at the end of drawing down his parks, mismanaged naturally, he wanted it easy, so that's why these rents were so far under market, right? He didn't live there, he was out of town, or not far, I mean, he was 10 miles away, yeah. Craig Fuhr (11:17) Mm -hmm. Jack BeVier (11:18) I'll bring his. How big is this, how big is the asset? What was that purchase price? Neil Timmins (11:27) 5 something, 522 I think, 522 ,000, yeah. We had a private sewer system. We have a lagoon. So Jack, I had to get educated on what in the world a lagoon was. And that was the scariest, out of all the purchases, that's been the scariest piece because you have a private sewer system, literally a poop pond, actually we had two. Jack BeVier (11:30) 520 ,000. Craig Fuhr (11:33) Sweet deal. Neil Timmins (11:57) It has to be, it's overseen by the state. You're complying with all these regulations. So we brought the right guy in, literally the guy in the town next door who manages the city's sewer system had a private business and so he managed our sewer system. I was like, all right, we got the right dude. But in my mind, lagoons are a time bomb just waiting to go off that's gonna cost you a hundred or $200 ,000 to solve. And then we had well water. Well water requires Jack BeVier (12:22) Mm -hmm. Neil Timmins (12:26) Daily Testing. Craig Fuhr (12:27) Right next to the lagoon, by the way, Jack. Jack BeVier (12:31) Daily testing? Neil Timmins (12:32) daily testing of water. Jack BeVier (12:34) How do you, so like that's, so what's the expense ratio on this? Like, yeah, how do you, how do you underwrite that? You're spending $522 ,000 on an asset. You know, it's like a mid -sized house, you know, like earlier. It's like a major Metro suburban house, like, like all the operating stuff that goes into this and like, like that could go real, real, real sideways, real quick. Neil Timmins (12:41) Yeah, yeah. it. Yeah, so we put the... Yeah, correct. Yeah, well, the management consisted of not much. We had everybody sign leases. We had a financial collection in my office here in town. It's either ACH or you're gonna mail a check. There's no cash getting picked up. If you have a problem, you can call our office, but we don't own any of the homes. We'll make sure it's, the mowing is done, the snow's done. Other than that, that's about it. It was a very clean, very neat park. There wasn't much to it. Jack BeVier (13:24) What are pad rents? Neil Timmins (13:26) They were $280 when we bought it, and we moved it to $385. Still cheap, still cheap. Jack BeVier (13:31) And what are your expense ratio? What's your expenses? How much of that 385 gets spent on expenses? Neil Timmins (13:39) Good question. I'm going off memory here because we came full cycle on it. We had a on -site, I call him park manager, I use that in quotes, because he mowed and he tested the water daily and then he posted notices when my office would email him notices to post. So that's not really a management, I mean it's like light, right? So he got, yeah, he got rent for free and then we paid him like 300 bucks a month, that was it. Other than that, you are into, Jack BeVier (13:41) Yeah. Craig Fuhr (13:59) Pretty, pretty typical, pretty typical. Neil Timmins (14:08) taxes, insurance, mowing, or snow. And then the, yeah, yeah. So figured out, solved everything in about 90 days, listed it for sale, sold it for 975 ,000. Jack BeVier (14:13) And you just figure it out. You're just like, hey, I'm going to figure it out. And you're just thinking about figuring it out. Really? Why did you, so why did you think you had a winner? How did you know that you had a winner? And this, and where'd you source this deal? Was this a postcard? Neil Timmins (14:34) Yeah, it was a postcard. What made me think we had a winner is because we went under contract with three different people for north of $800 ,000. None of them closed, of course, but I was going, there's enough demand. It seems like the market's there. If we go in and solve these problems, leave some meat on the bone for somebody, it seems like taking this out to market at a nine cap, somebody should love this deal. Craig Fuhr (14:57) Let me ask you this on the avatar of that buyer. I think that mobile home parks are sort of in that same fragmented state as a market that Jack was all foamy about back in 2004 or 2007, I should say. And while you have A and B class properties being purchased by Berkshire Hathaway and Sun and guys like that, I still think that there's a tremendously fragmented market amongst the 55 ,000 parks across the United States. And so I could see where your postcard would work in cases like that. And, you know, strangely enough, Jack, there's no great list to go out and find all 55 ,000 parks. It's very, very difficult to find. If you want to be a guy in that market, you're literally going on to CREC -C or Loopnet or just Google and trying to, you know, find the parks with Google Maps, but trying to find the owner is is heavy lifting in most cases. So this person who came to you to buy the property, Neil, is this a person who owns several other parks? Or were they new in the market? Like, you know, tell me about that. Neil Timmins (16:16) California Money, they worked for a syndication, in my understanding is they worked for a syndication who had closed and owned dozens of parks and they were an employee there and they wanted to do some stuff on their own or on the side, if you will, kind of the stuff that the syndication would never buy, it's too small. And so stumbled across this online somehow, one of the outlets and that's how they showed up. Craig Fuhr (16:17) Ha! Yeah, it's not an easy market in the smaller parks, the tertiary secondary markets to get any sort of agency financing on or, you know, and frankly, most municipalities are, you know, they're pretty lukewarm to having parks these days just because, you know, they don't throw off a whole lot of property taxes. And so, you know, I still think it's a really interesting asset class and I'm just, I'm curious, you know, are you looking for any more of these? Do you like the asset class or? Neil Timmins (17:16) Well, we've got another one under contract right now. In fact, we just presented to investors yesterday. We're set to close in about three weeks on this 73 pads, of which 62 are occupied. So about twice the size of the one I just mentioned to you here in Des Moines. So right in my backyard, literally 20 minutes from where I sit here. Another value add as it gets, right? Mismanaged for years and years and years. And so there is a few things that are really low hanging fruit. So I'm excited for this one. It's going to be an interesting one and fun one to execute on. Craig Fuhr (17:55) A lot of people like to talk about the similarities between self storage and mobile home parks, sort of that low, low cost of operation. You know, you don't really have a whole lot of interaction with tenants. You know, they just kind of pay the pad rent and you're good. So on this particular asset that you're just talking about, are these also tenant owned properties or park owned? Neil Timmins (18:20) Yeah, out of 62, there are six park owned, four of which are sold on contract. One, the manager lives in, and the sixth is vacant. So that'll get updated and sold out. Craig Fuhr (18:33) Mm -hmm. Jump in Jack. Jack BeVier (18:34) You mentioned that you're going to syndicate this one. And you've done some other syndications. What's that experience been like? How have syndications been going? What kind of stuff did you syndicate? Why, as opposed to taking it down yourself? Neil Timmins (18:48) Yeah. that's been terrible. Jack BeVier (18:51) You Craig Fuhr (18:51) Tell us the good part. Neil Timmins (18:52) Here's why. First I want to say this and then I'll go down to why. Success in real estate and success in syndications, raising capital are not the same. They're not even correlated. That's my belief. Just because you're good at one doesn't mean you're good at the other. Because I know, Jack, we both know lots of people are really good at raising money. They couldn't make a dime if you gave it to them in real estate because they're not real estate operators. Jack BeVier (19:18) So, so when you say syndications are going poorly, the raising money part is going poorly or the real estate part is going poorly. That's funny. If you go on Facebook, I've been like scrolling around on like Facebook groups recently and like there's, there's like this, there's like this simmer that's going on underneath right now because like, no one's talking about it. No one's talking about how their syndications have gone. Right. Like there was all these multifamily syndication specifically, but also other asset classes going as well. Right. And then. Neil Timmins (19:21) Yes, yes, yes, yes. No, the real estate's going great. Yeah, the raising money is going poorly. Yeah. Jack BeVier (19:48) But then if someone posts something about a syndication and like how it's got a situation, it's not going very well or like, Hey, how are we, you know, anybody, any feedback on what what's going on with their multifamily syndications? 53 comments, like, like just, just hate and, you know, and like, you know, hate and anger and anxiety and shame, just like all over the board, like just like spouts up like a little volcano. But, but then you don't see any of these projects. So, you know, I get, you know, and I love these Facebook groups because it's like what people are actually feeling, right? Like you actually get a sense of what's going on on main street much more than reading anything in the news or wherever, you know, like they don't have a fucking clue, right? but like, if you go on the Facebook groups, you have real people talking about what's actually going on. So it's great. and, but, but none of those properties have like shown up in the market yet. Right. So you're to your a point you mentioned previously about like getting ready for buying opportunities. I feel like the grumblings are like elevated, like the volume is coming up on that has not yet burst through in terms of like actual inventory hitting the market yet, but it makes me start, start to want to pay attention so that I, as they start to pop up, we'll be ready, right. And not like starting the learning curve from zero, as soon as there are like things hitting the market. so it's funny cause like all those folks off, you know, all these like fancy, marketing guys are, you know, good, you know, good at marketing guys, good at networking have been doing shit jobs on the real estate side. It seems, now obviously some of that's the market. Neil Timmins (21:22) Correct, yeah. Yeah, our real estate's been doing well as we roll in from where this is our third syndication, money's coming from those who invested in deal one and deal two, because the deals are going well. And so we expand the network from the people who are already in our deals, already having success, right? And so that's where, that's really becoming more of a groundswell, if you will, from. from friends, family referrals, from the people who are in the deal. So it's a testament to the real estate side of things. It's just, it is a new avenue of business for us to go off and ask for money and to get engaged with investors. It's just very different than executing in a real estate thing. It's a totally different business. Jack BeVier (22:06) is it and you're doing it because the deals are bigger, big enough size that you're like, Neil Timmins (22:10) No, we don't even need the money. We haven't done a deal yet where we've taken money from investors. And I've always said this to be true. If I put a deal in front of you, it's because I know I love this deal and I'll do the deal without you. And so if no investors show up, we'll still do it. And I'm just gonna be, Neil, writing a much bigger check to get over the finish line. The goal of this is to build a network of investors so that we've got... Jack BeVier (22:25) Mm -hmm. Neil Timmins (22:37) people there when the deal does come down the pipeline that is too big for me to write a check for, that I've got resources, that I'm not trying to figure it out that day. I want to solve for this as we go with these smaller deals, with successful deals, and prove ourselves so that we can build a network and build a reputation of success for investors. Jack BeVier (22:57) Yeah, yeah. I mean, those, you know, real, real, you know, real foundation there for fundraising is an organic one, right? That's the authentic one. The folks who like put out the fancy glossy stuff and bring in a bunch of folks and then the deal doesn't go well. And then they're the ones who are just roasting your ass, right? Cause they have no actual relationship with you, right? It was purely based off of gloss and greed. So like, yeah, I think, I mean, you're doing it the right way, right? Craig Fuhr (23:21) Jack, I feel like I've met so many syndicators over the past, I don't know, call it eight years, that the guiding philosophy was let me get really, really good at marketing for money. I'm still trying to figure out the whole, the asset that I'm operating in, but I'm going to be... rescued by the appreciation in the market. So I'm probably not buying the best deal, but we're going to do some value add. And in three to five years, I'm going to exit this thing and make a shit ton of money. I always looked at that as sort of crystal ball investing. You know, I, I think that appreciation should be the bonus, the cherry on, on the cake rather than, you know, of all the returns of real estate. And so I think it's a refreshing thing, Neil, to hear guys like you who are, who understand the real estate side. better. And you'll figure out the capital raising side as you as you go along, but you're still putting out great deals that are, you know, on paper, you know, feasible, rather than, I've got to worry about what the market does in terms of appreciation and really make money on this thing. Neil Timmins (24:31) I agree with you and that's probably because I sit in Iowa, right? It's gotta be cashflow first and not banking on the appreciation to make the deal. Craig Fuhr (24:36) Yeah. Jack BeVier (24:42) When we, so Fred started Dominion in 2002 and in 2003, he started lending his own money. And then in 2003, he started bringing in some friends and family money. And it was always an organic, you know, meet people at Thanksgiving and, you know, and they would, you know, a hundred would trickle in 50 would trickle in 200 would trickle in and like just a slow, slowly organically grew it. And then 2010, 2011, we get introduced to the, the Atlanta market. And we're like, this is fricking awesome. Like, like these houses are so cheap, but the, but the mentality. Right. Like throughout the world was that you shouldn't touch real estate with a 10 foot pole. We may have overbuilt for 50 years. We may, we may never build houses ever again, blah, blah, blah. Right. Like, which has all been proved to be total bullshit, but the, and so in 2011, we started buying houses in Atlanta with our own money. And then in 2012, we're like, dude, we should raise some, we should go past the hat. Like this is a much bigger opportunity. And. We should go raise some money for that. And so we went on this big road, you know, road trip, you know, fundraising campaign, opened up the whole Rolodex, spent a bunch of money on marketing to try to raise money. And we got fucking crickets everywhere we went. Just everyone thought we were idiots. We got, we'd go to these meetings with, you know, financial advisors and they would just pat us on the head and be like, you know, maybe you should spend that energy. Sounds like you guys really know what you're talking about. Maybe you should spend that energy in real estate education. And that just pissed us off. Right. But the people who threw down were all from that buildup of from 2003 to 2011 in the lending company who we had been giving. We we had been giving checks to every month for, you know, every month for nine years. Those folks all threw down because of the tracker group with us. And that was it. Right. We said, Hey, you should do this. We think it's a good idea. They say, Hey, you've never led us wrong before. And they all threw down and they all made a bunch of money because you know, because, you know, because they did throw down at the right time and everybody else, you know, everybody else couldn't raise money, right? Because when there's a real opportunity, when you really need the money, because there's a real opportunity to do it, the, that, that, like that surface level marketing, glossy fundraising crowd ain't there, right? They ain't going to throw down when, when there's a real opportunity. So I'm sure that it's the, the harder path, but the one that's actual like has value, the, what you're doing there. So Neil Timmins (27:09) confident in it, it's just taking, it's always more work and more effort, but the conversations we're having and the relationships we're building, you're right, I'm like, there's some depth to it. Craig Fuhr (27:25) So Neil, for the listeners and Jack, I have to believe that there's guys and gals that listen to the podcast who, you know, they've reached a certain scale. They're looking for more capital. They're figuring out how to do the pitch to friends, family and fools as my mentor used to say. And Neil, maybe you can just, we talked about case studying. Let's talk about like this particular mobile home park that you're looking at, purchase price. you know, what do you think you're going to do for value add in addition to raising rents? And then what is the, what's your vision for going out and raising the capital forward? How much are you looking to raise? Even though you, you buy your own admission, you, you can pay for the thing yourself, but I think you have a real vision for, putting a network of investors together who can, you know, leverage their, their capital through you. So yeah. Neil Timmins (28:19) Yeah, yeah, so this one, purchase price, 1 .2 million. It appraised at 1 .42. So take that for what it's worth. We think, I always think we had to buy to begin with and then some of that gets validated when the appraisal comes in and it certainly gives the bank a higher comfort level with what we're doing. There are, this largely is an expense reduction play, not an income increase play. So there'll be nominal increases to the rent, but it's largely expense and management related. The particular, the avatar of the seller here, you'll get a kick out of this. They own 37 parks. The gentleman's partner died in the last two years somewhere in that range. And so the primary principal has stepped in trying to clean up the portfolio. In his words, clean up some of the dogs. This is the smallest park they own and it's the only park they own in Iowa. Okay. It has been largely mismanaged for a number of years. You guys get a kick out of this. 62 occupied pads last year, garbage, so a dumpster. They spent $56 ,000 on trash in the year. So. Craig Fuhr (29:34) Holy. Jack BeVier (29:34) shit Craig Fuhr (29:36) Every blue collar guy with a business on the side is using that dumpster. Neil Timmins (29:41) It's clear. Yes, you are exactly right. So for us, it's three line items that shift the value of the park by $700 ,000. One is solving the dumpster problem. So how you know, some of this, the overarching theme is we got to change behavior. It's not just as easy as do something with the one dumpster because we have to we got to change people shift some behavior. So there's a new there's a new rodeo, there's a new manager, a new sheriff in town, if you will. So they're going to people are going to understand that first with a carrot and this with this deck. So I'll get to that in a second But ultimately the dumpster is gonna get solved by eliminating the dumpster and everybody's getting a garbage can So just like any of a you know, if you guys live in a house, we all have garbage cans and that's what everybody's getting So if we've source that bid that the the number we budgeted for 12 grand in year one for our expenses and that's it should only takes about 10 grand or 9 ,500 but I put some overage in there to go, we're gonna have to change some behavior. So we're gonna have some cleanup, I suspect, over a period of time. So that's the big one far and away. The next one is water. So today, the water comes into a singular meter in which the ownership pays, right? Water crosses that meter, ownership pays it. From there, there are 62 sub -meters. So each of the occupied trailers has its own meter. So ownership pays this one, tenants pay the next one. Well, there's a couple of things. Looking at the line item in the, in the, what they, ownership paid last year, they paid about $70 ,000 in water, and they collected about $30 ,000. So you got a delta of 40 grand, why? So the first thing I do is going, there's, we went to their logs to go, okay, are you not billing enough? What's happening? So we pulled down their logs. Here's exactly what they billed for in terms of number of gallons for the last year. We pulled the water company bills. We're just identifying gallons, right? What'd you bill for and what'd you get charged for? Well, there's a loss of about 100 to 300 ,000 gallons each and every month, which tells me there's water breaks, underground water breaks that are taking place. So we brought somebody to come in. It's incredible what they do. They come in, they put this contraption on, and they literally listen to every water meter. to identify water line breaks. They can hear water running. So we identified where the location of the breaks are. And our intent is to come in. We've sourced the plumber, got the bids, and shore up those water line breaks along with, then I want to make sure there's accurate readouts taking place. So we're going to replace all 62 water meters and put new readouts on all 62 of them so that we're actually, you know, we're getting, we, Craig Fuhr (32:07) Mm. Neil Timmins (32:34) We stopped the leakage and we bill correctly. So that's the next one. And the last line item is insurance. These folks have been paying about $16 ,500 a year in insurance. And we've gone through multiple bids, all our bids, two different vendors, both came back sub $7 ,000 for coverage. So we pick up about nine or $10 ,000 in savings there. Those three line items alone. we'll move the value of the park in the first year by $700 ,000 if we can shore those expenses up. Jack BeVier (33:08) What's the CapEx investment you're going to make in order to do that? Neil Timmins (33:11) $159 ,600. There's more past that, Jack. So there's a communal laundry facility. Today there's three washers and three dryers there. I've been to this facility about five times now in the last 60 days since we've been under contract. Every time I've been there, two washers and two dryers are broken. So you're talking about one washer and one dryer serving 62 occupied pads in which roughly 170 people occupy? Jack BeVier (33:39) Mm -hmm. Neil Timmins (33:39) I mean, I got to wash and dry my house for five people, right? I mean, it makes no sense. So we've got four new washers, four new dryers coming in. This little facility needs fresh paint, new floor, needs new shingles on the roof. We're going upward, yep, yep. And I talked about changing behavior. There is garbage to the left of each pad, each mobile home. There's garbage to the right. There's garbage in the front. There's garbage in the back. Jack BeVier (33:41) No. Coin op? Coin operated? Yeah. Neil Timmins (34:09) There is trash through this whole fricking facility. It needs somebody who comes in and can take pride of ownership in this. There's about roughly 60 % of the pads are occupied by Latinos, 40 % by white folks. It is clear there is a today in the park, the Latinos take way better care of their properties. Their homes look far better. They just take more pride into this. And so we want to extend that pride to the total park. And so we're going to do a summer cleanup day. We're going to bring a bunch of 40 yard dumpsters into the facility. And it's a carrot. Hey, we're going to, we're doing this together. We've got a new community, you know, a new ownership. We're going to build this community together. Here's what we need you to do. We've provided these dumpsters. We need you to throw these things away. The stick is you don't do these things come day 30, you're going to get fined. I'm gonna get you there one way or another. And it's okay if you move because I'll find another tenant who's gonna actually invest and take pride in their community. We're gonna get people there over a period of time. Jack BeVier (35:17) What are the patterns there? Neil Timmins (35:19) $433 on average the most direct comparable down the street to half mile away The that they has twice the number of units. They are very densely populated They're like on top of each other pad rents. There are 450 or 455 so slightly ahead of us and I'm thinking if we get to where we need to go But we should be ahead of that one shouldn't be the other way around Craig Fuhr (35:44) So I want to get to the capital raise part of this and get back to that. But one of the interesting things that I find about that asset class, Jack, is when you have tenant owned homes and they stop paying rent or they're just a problem in the park and you evict them, they're not taking that. They're generally not taking the trailer with them. Not happening because the cost of doing that, if you can find a company that will do it within six months, is exorbitant. you know, we were, when I was looking at a park, about a year and a half ago in Phoenix, we, we discovered that the cost of moving one of those to your next place of, you know, you own the damn thing, you can move it. but it's about 15 grand sometimes a little bit more. Yeah. And so that thing ain't going. Jack BeVier (36:28) 15 grand? Yeah. So everyone pays because like, you're not going to like, you don't have the 15 grand or when you evict somebody, you get a trailer, right? Craig Fuhr (36:39) Yeah, well it gets better. So in most cases, the park owner, if you want to sell that property, Jack, if you want to sell, I own it, I own the trailer, I'm going to sell it and I'm going to go to another park. The park owner has a say in who you sell that, that trailer to you can't, I can't just call Jack Bevere and say, I've got this great trailer. You want to buy it and live here? No, that Jack Bevere gets vetted by the park owner. So I can't just go sell that thing to anyone. So it's a really interesting, I don't know of any other asset class where you have that right, but it's an amazing thing. And I think it makes the tenancy pretty damn sticky. Jack BeVier (37:20) So what's the, forgive the ignorant question here. Everybody who knows mobile home parks will soon discover that I know nothing. When you evict somebody for non -payment of pad rent though, you don't own their trailer. Their trailer is now sitting on your pad, but it's still their personal property, question mark. Neil Timmins (37:21) Yes, correct. That's right, yeah, and something has to happen over a very short period of time, otherwise you're gonna take some action against them legally. To either remove, to either, yeah. Jack BeVier (37:48) So what do you end up doing? Say they abandon it. Do you get legal possession of the trailer? Neil Timmins (37:58) You're gonna have to take some action there. These things are owned like car titles, right? Not real estate. So we've not had that experience and so we're gonna find ourselves, we would engage in a attorney. Craig Fuhr (38:03) Yes. Jack BeVier (38:09) so you can foreclose like you get like a judgment against somebody foreclosing the judgment and then take and then repossess the repossess the Neil Timmins (38:17) I suppose you can get a judgment against them and then go to seek a collection on that judgment against the trailer. Yep. Jack BeVier (38:24) But it's never happened. well, you own that one for a short period of time. Neil Timmins (38:27) We owned the one for one year, never had that. And then we're gonna find out as we get into here. Because I suspect, you know, as we come down and there's some changes here, somebody's not gonna make the grade sooner or later. And so we will live that experience. Jack BeVier (38:42) Yeah. Craig Fuhr (38:43) So let's get into the capital raise side here and then your outreach to, you know, folks who want to invest with you. What does that look like for you? Neil Timmins (38:51) Yeah, for us it has been this year, we've made some changes over last year to this year. This year it's been me going and having lots of coffees, talking to a lot of people, just telling them what we do. And I always tell them, hey, I'm not like a stockbroker, I don't have anything to sell you today, and I might not even have an option this year. I'm just telling you, here's what we do, and for those who come along with us, it's because they like real estate, they wanna be involved in real estate. I'm not gonna sell you anything. There's no hard pressure. And that has turned into a number of referrals to go, you should talk to so and so. They like real estate. They wanna be in various things or they are in various things. And so it's been a lot of that. And then when we go and have a deal, it's communicating out, it's emailing out to folks, it's having our presentation, which we did yesterday, 45 minutes long and going through our slide deck to go. Here's the opportunity and here's how we're going to execute on these things and here's what our returns look like. Craig Fuhr (39:54) So on a $1 .2 million purchase of a mobile home park, can you go through what that deal looks like? I mean, is the owner taking back any sort of financing? What does it look like for you on that purchase? Neil Timmins (40:04) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great question. And so, you know, we're accredited investors only on this deal and by virtue of our race status, it gives me the flexibility to talk in as much detail as we're going to go into just so everybody knows from a compliance standpoint. No seller financing. We tried that avenue. So we ended up getting 70 % debt, meaning loan to value at 70 % of the cost of the park. So we pulled $840 ,000 that way. Craig Fuhr (40:30) Mm -hmm. Neil Timmins (40:34) Got some bank debt. Interest only for nine months and then 20 year am. That's the piece, Jack, that you'll notice a lot on the mobile home park. Shorter ams on everything. They don't want 25. They want 15s ideally and they'll stretch to 20. Seven and a quarter. Jack BeVier (40:52) What was the rate? Craig Fuhr (40:53) So you, yeah. So you said for nine months, so that's callable at nine months. Neil Timmins (40:57) No, 7 and 1 .25, three -year loan, of which nine months is interest only. Yep, yep. No prepayment penalty, because I never go to ask. Craig Fuhr (41:04) I see. Got it. Jack BeVier (41:10) Is your plan to exit after three years or within three years? Neil Timmins (41:12) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, two to three year, two to three, somewhere in that range. That's the exit. Yep. Craig Fuhr (41:17) Can I ask why not just hang on to it forever? What's the? Jack BeVier (41:18) So it's a straight value add repositioning. Neil Timmins (41:21) I mean, it could be, yeah, I think it'll get evaluated, but the intent is to get investors their money back, be near two or three, somewhere in that range. This one. Craig Fuhr (41:31) I see. Jack BeVier (41:35) What's also going to stabilize like, yeah, for as the GP like value add deals, you're going to get the most pop by doing that value add and exiting quicker. Otherwise like loaning, owning it long -term, you're going to dilute your IRR and make it harder to hit your promote. So like, you know, maybe they, maybe they recapitalize it into a new end. Maybe he decides, Hey, I want to keep this thing, but he would want to recapitalize it into a new entity at different terms so that he can hit his promote on the value add portion. Neil Timmins (41:57) Yeah. One thing we did on this one is we put in two tier structures. So class A1, A2, $50 ,000 is the minimum, 8 % PREF, and then we go into a waterfall structure. 8 to 12 is 70, 30, 12 to 18 is 60, 40. On the $100 ,000 tier, A2, $100 ,000 investment there, it's 10 PREF. And then 10 to 15, it's a 70, 30, and 15 to 20, it's a 60, 40. We always, I like creating these structures where if you invest more with us, you put more confidence behind us, we're gonna reward you with a higher return there, higher preferred return, higher levels, if you will. We did put an investor buyout clause in this, so long as the A1 hits 18 % average annual rate of return, they're in the deal for at least two years, and they get all their initial investment back, the general partner. can buy them out of their position. And for that second tier, it's 20%. So 20 % a year, two years, get your money back. We can buy them out of that position. So Craig, it will be a thought. Do we do a cash out refinance? Do we take the investors out at their return levels come year two or year three? Or do we sell it? Jack BeVier (43:22) Yeah, that kind of answers that. Yeah, if you can step in then then yeah. How much are you putting in? Neil Timmins (43:25) Correct, yeah. 10%. I always say it's 10%, it's a personal guarantee on the loan. Yeah, yeah. And then if there's a shortfall, I'm always making up the shortfall. I write whatever the delta is, yeah. Jack BeVier (43:32) you're PGing alone? Well, that's a big deal. Yeah. There's no depreciation on mobile homes, all right? Neil Timmins (43:43) Very, very, it's not a lot. On the one in Dubuque, there was a lot because there was private sewer system. That ended up getting a lot because that means you're depreciating the infrastructure, right? But when you don't have that private infrastructure, there's not a tremendous amount. Yeah. Craig Fuhr (43:50) Mm. Jack BeVier (44:01) Yeah, I got you. Cool. That's awesome, man. Sounds fun. Neil Timmins (44:05) So it's a small race, only 600 grand, you know, we're raising for, you obviously the down payment, but then we're putting money into that and then having some capital held back for reserves. Jack BeVier (44:17) Nice. Craig Fuhr (44:17) How's it going? Neil Timmins (44:18) We raised yesterday we pitched yesterday We only need 600 we raised a hundred and a half in a day And so I suspect today is it'll be new, you know more phone calls a bunch I mean the feedback has been very positive And so I had a couple calls yesterday like hey, I think we're gonna be in but we're not quite there yet So we'll see where we end this week. I'd be pleased if we end up halfway there this week Which has been a significant improvement compared to the previous raises. Yeah Craig Fuhr (44:43) You know? you Neil Timmins (44:49) So I'm very pleased with where we're at. Craig Fuhr (44:52) So what's on the horizon for you, man? What are you excited about other than this particular deal? What it, yeah. Jack BeVier (44:59) Hey Craig, can I, can I, I apologize. Can I interject one comment on that last subject before? Cause you, you, I would definitely want to ask the exact same thing you were about to say. I've noticed where I've gotten this feedback. I've gotten some of this feedback and I think I was also just noticed. So like where I was talking about, Hey, all the people who are in these, who are, whose money you're still stuck right in these fit in a lot of like not going so well syndications hasn't fully failed yet, but like, you know, not going that great, like get you, they've been capital called and, or aren't getting Craig Fuhr (45:03) Yeah, please. Neil Timmins (45:18) Multi -firm. Yep. Yep. Jack BeVier (45:27) aren't getting any distributions right now. So like all that money, right? Like all that money is the folks who normally would have been interested in something that's right like this right now, right? But everybody's like, everybody's real gun shy right now. Not only are they gun shy, like, you know, because, you know, it's a higher interest rate environment, they may not be as optimistic as they was, they were before, but their money's stuck dead in this deal, right? And this illiquid investment. And they're like, you know, a lot of them just don't got it, right? Like they're, they're tied up in illiquid stuff, you know? And so, yeah, I think that what we've, we've, we've also seen that money, that equity is harder to raise much harder to raise than it was two years ago, much, much harder to raise than it was two years ago. I think it's a combination of both of those factors. Like some folks do recognize that there's more opportunity right now, but they can't do anything about it because their money's stuck in these three other syndications where they got capital called on one and aren't getting any distributions on the other two. So it's a thing. Neil Timmins (46:24) What's unique about this one for us is this is our first raise where the property is in Des Moines. The other two that we did last year were both out of state. And so I suspect, and we're gonna find out when we end, how much does the fact that these are, especially when somebody's first investment with us, if they're from town, they know, like trust this city, and then the fact that they've known me for extended period of time and the properties here in town. How much does that move the needle for them in their comfort level for doing a deal? And so there's a lot of things that I think we're gonna, we're learning and evolving as we go when it comes to the capital raising, especially when we get to the end of this to go, all right, who do we get money from and why? Why are they in this deal? Craig Fuhr (47:15) One quick question before we move on to what you're excited about. When you're speaking with folks like this, I would imagine that, you know, these aren't rich guys or gals, you know, like these aren't like, you know, the people that have millions of dollars laying around to, you know, throw at your mobile home park deals. So, you know, talk to the people who are listening right now, like, who is the guy who I'm going out to pitch? And, you know, I would assume that you have relationships or you know, of these people either directly or tangentially. Talk about that. Like what what does an average investor in a deal look like this look like? Neil Timmins (47:51) Yeah, that's a fantastic question. Yeah, I'm just coming on, thinking about a couple of the different people. I mean, a couple of them are doctors, a couple of them are attorneys, a couple of them are just people who have had solid careers in insurance or in banking, and it just saved over a period of time, and they're 50 to 70 years old, and they wanna place some dollars and cents in things that can produce some money passively. And it doesn't feel like it's, too much risk. A lot of it is, when do I get, when do my first check come? I wanna make sure there's some cash flow. So we're not, you know, this isn't ground up development. There's gotta be cash flow associated with these things. You know, our average check size is probably 75 ,000 over the last three deals. Yeah, yeah. So it's, as you said, these are normal average people. Some of the people are in real estate. Craig Fuhr (48:26) Mm -hmm. Really? Neil Timmins (48:52) one segment or another, you know? And so they've got to, they know, like, and trust real estate, a couple of guys own apartments. And so want other exposure, want to place dollars and cents other places as well. And some of that is the fact that it's not easy to find a good deal today. And so if they've got dollars and cents on the sideline waiting for an opportunity, you know, we think we've got an opportunity for. Craig Fuhr (48:55) Sure, sure. Yeah. Neil Timmins (49:21) you know, certainly for the right folks. Jack BeVier (49:22) That's great. So what other kind of stuff are you looking at right now? Like you've sent postcards to different asset classes over the years. What are you sending on right now? Neil Timmins (49:33) We're trying to find, yeah, it has been not, it's been challenging, right? It's been a challenging environment to find an opportunity. And I say an opportunity, you know, you can go buy a market opportunity, but it's just not what we're after. So we're trying to find something with some value add, or, you know, you can buy a deal with that. It's got a pretty high cap rate, where you get some yield spread over where you can borrow at, and that one's tougher. So yes, I mean, we're out there in multiple markets. Every month building relationships with brokers, expanding the relationship with our current brokers, evaluating deals to try to find opportunities. And at the same time as you said, yes, we're still outreaching to people throughout the whole state of Iowa, trying to uncover an opportunity that exists there. Craig Fuhr (50:22) I know what I want to ask you. I made a note here. I forgot to look back at it. you mentioned in the first podcast episode, I wouldn't remind everybody to go back and check that out with Neil, self storage. And, my, my guiding theory is that self storage is the natural migratory path. It feels like over the last few years of all single family guys, cause it's amazing flock to that asset. And if you talk to every single one of them, at least the ones that I've talked to, there, it's all rosy and you know, it's it's rainbows and lollipops and it's the most resilient asset class recession proof, blah, blah, blah. And so you said that it was your worst performing asset and that, you know, kind of a little bit of bad taste in your mouth. Why? What happened there? How come you're how come you're the and the antithesis of what the average investor is these days? Neil Timmins (51:15) Yeah, yeah. So I'll answer that and then I'll tell you why I think it's gonna be a tremendous deal long term and I think I may have shared that with Jack in the past from our structure of acquisition. So I'll go into that in a minute. It's in Lawrence, Indiana, sub -market of Indianapolis. It sits, call it a major thoroughfare, right? Lots of traffic and right in front of our facility is a strip club. Craig Fuhr (51:33) Mm -hmm. Neil Timmins (51:42) Yeah. Yeah. When I first went there, I was like, are we serious, man? Right behind, where's your, where's your plane? I was throwing my stuff right behind Mustangs. Okay, sweet. Jack BeVier (51:50) It's a niche, it's a niche. You're going to the self storage facility. you're going to self storage. So again, huh. All right. Neil Timmins (52:01) Where have you - Craig Fuhr (52:02) Yeah. Jack BeVier (52:05) Yeah Craig Fuhr (52:08) You smell like vanilla perfume. You said you were going to sell storage. You have no one, you have no $1 bills left in your pocket. You left with a hundred. Neil Timmins (52:08) HAAA Jack BeVier (52:10) Yeah, they got these. Yeah, but they got these Glade plugins in the self storage in each unit. They got a vanilla Glade plugin. Neil Timmins (52:19) Yeah, each unit, yeah, yeah. So we bought it from a guy who'd owned it for years and years and years and another management play there, he had, let me just let people pay when they feel like paying and they took cash and so we go in there like, it's not happening. So first a gate needs to be put on the facility because the gate didn't exist and we need to move to electronic and we're not gonna have a person on site. Craig Fuhr (52:22) That's too good. Neil Timmins (52:49) And we actually require people to pay on time every month via some sort of standard ACH or credit card. And so 20 % of the people either left or didn't pay. It's 15 ,000 square feet, so call it 150, about that. And we have ground to double the size of it. But the demand isn't there today to do so. Craig Fuhr (53:01) How many units is it? Okay. Mm -hmm. Neil Timmins (53:18) That, so yes, I hear all of the self -storage gurus and the people touting it's recession resistant, because look what happened in 08, 09, and 10. You know what happened in 08, 09, and 10? Is that a lot of people had to move. You know what didn't happen in the last two years? A lot of people aren't moving. There's not a lot of bodies taking place. There's a bunch of people who locked into a mortgage sub 3%, sub 3 .5%. who probably aren't moving in my opinion for quite some time. And you know what they don't need? If you don't move, you don't need a self storage facility. I just think there's less demand as over the course of the last two years for that space than what there has been. Yes, individual facilities vary, but I think overall there's probably a little less. Craig Fuhr (54:07) You have a lot of competition in that area. Neil Timmins (54:09) There's a I mean it's I mean it seems normal compared to what else is to an average place burn You know if you ran ran the numbers on a median basis per square foot from a storage facility We're right inside of an average an average number there Craig Fuhr (54:23) you're not excited to go out and find more of that. Neil Timmins (54:26) I would move in lukewarm. You know what, it's a consumer facing business. It's a consumer facing business. You have to, when they call, somebody has to answer. Like now, because they're going to rent something. So it's limping along. It's doing, I mean it's not exciting at all. Now what has me excited about this, how I think we come out of this, And here's how. We bought this property for $1 .4 million. We put $200 ,000 down. Seller financed $1 .2 million. The seller financing terms are interest only, 5%, 20 years. Okay, I think, you know, let inflation, do we just limp along? We need to do a little better. Inflation will do its thing. This thing, this thing's fantastic at the end of the day. Jack BeVier (55:25) Yeah, you got to get 200 basis point head start at least more than that. Yeah. Neil Timmins (55:28) Correct. Yeah, so I think in the long run it ends up just hunky -dory But today it's it's like yeah, it's not doing that. It's just limping Jack BeVier (55:38) You do your quarterly board meeting there, I assume with your investors. They're doing onsite. Stop in for Mustangs. Check out the buffet. Neil Timmins (55:46) Yeah, how we doing? Right, yeah. I got the, the foods, the foods, we had a sign issue with like, who's got an easement? Where could our sign go? So when we bought the thing early on, this was with a different neighbor, we bought the thing early on, I became friends, friends. I became on a first name basis with the manager of Mustangs. I've never been there by the way, but I call them and we just, hey Neil. I said, yeah. We just, my intent was, Jack BeVier (55:48) you Craig Fuhr (55:50) Food is amazing. Neil Timmins (56:16) Yeah, your guys paint looks pretty bad. How about we repaint your property for you guys, but I need a sign. I need a giant. I need an easement for a sign. They're like, well, we're owned by whoever. I mean, this became like a, like an every week call to go to try to get us a sign easement from mustangs, which never, never occurred in the end of that. Craig Fuhr (56:37) They wouldn't let you co -brand on their Chrome poll. Neil Timmins (56:39) I was like, dude, your purple paint is terrible. Let's do something special for you guys. You deserve more. Mustangs should be elevated. Jack BeVier (56:48) you Craig Fuhr (56:51) Neil, is there any asset class that you would be like, nah, that's not I'm not doing hotel. I'm not, you know, is there anything that you would say that's just not going to ever be me? Neil Timmins (57:01) Yeah, strip clubs. Jack BeVier (57:02) You Neil Timmins (57:05) I've given them a lot of plug here today. Yeah, good question. You know what? We've never done hotels. I'm kind of like, quasi curious about them, but not enough. I haven't done any material effort to go do anything. That's probably because there's a hotel across the street from me, which is like in bad shape, that is ripe for redevelopment and they own a bunch of ground around them. Craig Fuhr (57:07) Yes you have. Yes you have. Neil Timmins (57:31) which makes me go, I wonder if there's an opportunity there. I wonder if there's an opportunity to kind of figure that out, depreciate it over a period of time, make some money as you go, and then level it and reposition. So stay tuned, but I'm not quite there yet. You know, there are inside of industrial, for me, I like big giant boxes. Industrial is all encompassing. You know, I see a lot of deals that are manufacturing here in the Midwest. You know, somebody's got a hundred thousand square foot plant and then they grew and they needed more space. So they added an L to that and put another 45 ,000 on and then they needed some more. So they cut out another wall and went the other direction, another 50 ,000 square feet. That to me is just, we're not gonna buy it. It's it's functionally obsolescent in my mind because I have zero idea who's ever going to occupy that place When when they turn out and the cap rates are going to be attractive and somebody buys it sooner or later But it's not going to be us Craig Fuhr (58:32) Yeah. Well, man, if people want to get in touch with you, either to learn more about about the business or to invest with you, how would they find you? Neil Timmins (58:42) Legacy Impact Investors dot com the absolute best place Craig Fuhr (58:47) Jack, why don't you go ahead and wrap us up here. Jack BeVier (58:50) Yeah, no, Neil really appreciated. Thanks for taking the time, man. Thanks for letting us monopolize in so much of your morning. And it's a pleasure as always really enjoy the conversation. You got so many interesting experience, so much hustle. So I just, I just enjoy, I'm always excited for the next RIR meeting. Cause I'm like, Hey, what'd you buy? Like, what'd you buy? Tell me about the seller financing you got, you know, like what, you know, what are you into right now? And he's always got a story. So I love it. I love it. So looking forward to the next. Neil Timmins (59:12) Jack, you're one of the biggest brains I know. It's always a pleasure. If I get to spend any time with you, it's a pleasure. So it's my honor to be here with you guys. Thank you. Craig Fuhr (59:20) Thanks, Neil. Will you be here in July? Neil Timmins (59:22) Unfortunately, I will be out of the country in July, so it'll be fall before I make my way out there again. Craig Fuhr (59:29) I look forward to Jack BeVier (59:29) Nice, where you going? Neil Timmins (59:31) We're going up to Canada and then into Alaska. Yeah? Yeah, it'll be fun. Jack BeVier (59:34) sick. Very nice. Craig Fuhr (59:37) Well, man, thanks for taking the time with us. I'll look forward to meeting you over here at 32 South when you come in in the fall. And really, man, it's been a pleasure to speak with you. Neil Timmins (59:47) Thanks, Greg. Appreciate it. Craig Fuhr (59:49) All right, guys.