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Date with a Debut - The Book Deal crossover episode · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina Strachan: This is the Book Deal podcast
• 0:11
  Madeleine Cleary: where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Natasha Rai: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals to bring you the best tips and advice on how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:25
  Tina Strachan: So no matter what stage of writing your at.
• 0:28
  Tina Strachan: We've got you covered.
• 0:29
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:30
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:32
  Natasha Rai: And I'm Natasha Rai.
• 0:34
  Tina Strachan: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors
• 0:37
  Madeleine Cleary: one deal at a time.
• 0:43
  Madeleine Cleary: The Book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: Nick Wasiliev, it's so amazing to chat with you today in our Date with a Debut, The Book Deal podcast collab.
• 1:03
  Tina Strachan: It's very exciting.
• 1:04
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 1:04
  Tina Strachan: Welcome.
• 1:06
  Nick Wasiliev: Thank you.
• 1:06
  Nick Wasiliev: It is so nice to be here.
• 1:08
  Nick Wasiliev: I've...
• 1:08
  Nick Wasiliev: Really, really excited to chat with you.
• 1:10
  Nick Wasiliev: I've been listening, a regular listener of the show, big fan of all of you.
• 1:14
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, been watching you a few times from the, from the wings.
• 1:18
  Nick Wasiliev: Had Tash and Maddie on a few ti- uh, on the, on the show as well, so very happy to be here.
• 1:24
  Tina Strachan: Oh, no, it's, it's, it's an amazing collab.
• 1:26
  Tina Strachan: It's a great idea.
• 1:27
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, lots of people know you're the host of the podcast Date with a Debut, which lots of people talk about.
• 1:34
  Tina Strachan: It's a very popular podcast.
• 1:36
  Tina Strachan: Now, tell us a little bit about it, Nick.
• 1:39
  Tina Strachan: What, for, for those who have been under a rock and do not know about it, tell us, what's it about?
• 1:45
  Tina Strachan: What's your intended audience?
• 1:46
  Tina Strachan: How did you become the host?
• 1:49
  Nick Wasiliev: Oh, Tina, how long have you got?
• 1:51
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, so it's a funny old story.
• 1:55
  Nick Wasiliev: So effectively Date With A Debut, for those who are not familiar, it's a podcast about shining a light on debut authors and their journey to publication.
• 2:04
  Nick Wasiliev: So it's not just a discussion about the wonderful books that debut authors open with.
• 2:09
  Nick Wasiliev: We do a kind of a dive into the actual book.
• 2:11
  Nick Wasiliev: We talk about the characters, the themes, the plots, but also we touch on what they, what those authors did to get to that point, how they finally got that foot in the door of the industry, so to speak.
• 2:24
  Nick Wasiliev: And then also even talk about some of the intricacies and kind of r- put, go behind the curtain a little bit around the actual process of getting to publication.
• 2:32
  Nick Wasiliev: 'Cause sometimes for someone on the outside looking in, that can seem like a, a, a massive mountain that you have to scale and it seems impossible to get around.
• 2:42
  Nick Wasiliev: Whereas in fact, the more you look into it, the more there are many, many, many, many options available to you and there...
• 2:48
  Nick Wasiliev: It's just knowing where to go, who to target, um, which particular publishers to go to with y- with a particular book, the options of getting an agent no matter what.
• 2:57
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, and that's kind of the fun part of it, is finding out every author's journey is different.
• 3:02
  Nick Wasiliev: And it's, it's why there's a great overlap with, with The Book Deal because I know that you kind of touch on similar things yourself.
• 3:08
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 3:09
  Nick Wasiliev: And funnily enough, arriving at this point, Date With A Debut wasn't actually my idea.
• 3:15
  Nick Wasiliev: I, I, the credit actually goes to, um, Mark Harding and Ben Hunter from Booktopia back in the day when I was working there for a few years.
• 3:24
  Nick Wasiliev: They tried this series of like a ch- a s- trili- like a mini-series of three episodes where they talked with three different authors, and I cut it together.
• 3:32
  Nick Wasiliev: I was kind of the producer behind the scenes.
• 3:35
  Nick Wasiliev: And I thought to myself, there's something in this.
• 3:39
  Nick Wasiliev: There's something in this.
• 3:40
  Nick Wasiliev: There's something more to this idea because I know for a fact that every author struggles to get a start and maybe there should be a show specifically focused on the new voices because so many of those voices might go, may go on to find success and find, um, you know, become bestsellers.
• 3:57
  Nick Wasiliev: And cataloging that journey in some way, shape, or form, um- Mm-hmm is something that will have a huge amount of value.
• 4:03
  Nick Wasiliev: Uh, and there's something to that.
• 4:06
  Nick Wasiliev: Unfortunately, I got made redundant from Booktopia back in 2023 and I kind of said to my boss at the time,"Can I take this idea with me?" And he gave me his blessing.
• 4:15
  Nick Wasiliev: And from that I reached out to Dani V from Words and Nerds, um, and basically said,"I've got...
• 4:23
  Nick Wasiliev: I'm looking for work.
• 4:24
  Nick Wasiliev: I've got a few months free.
• 4:25
  Nick Wasiliev: You okay if I do a little miniseries of four or five episodes?" And she said,"Yeah, let's do it." Four or five episodes became 12.
• 4:32
  Nick Wasiliev: 12 became,"Do you wanna come back next year?" Do you wanna come back next year became now four series in.
• 4:39
  Nick Wasiliev: So it's- Mm it's kind of never really stopped from there.
• 4:42
  Nick Wasiliev: And it's helped me really identify a need in terms of that audience, not only just because publishers are looking for any opportunity to put a debut author out there, they're really taking a punt with an author that they've invested their effort in, but you're also, you've als- and you've also got those readers who are looking for a new voice to check out and the great thing about that is with a show like this you can say,"Here is a n- a new voice at the start of their career who might be worth your time." But then you also have aspiring writers who are going,"I don't know where to start." So it- Mm from that, this little podcast has kind of grown and identified, uh...
• 5:19
  Nick Wasiliev: I really had seen that there's a need for it, which makes it really fun for me,'cause I get to chat with authors every week now and poor old me, I'm having a great time.
• 5:28
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 5:28
  Tina Strachan: It is super fun, isn't it?
• 5:30
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah, it is.
• 5:30
  Nick Wasiliev: It's addictive
• 5:31
  Tina Strachan: how, how fun it is.
• 5:32
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, podcasts are fun.
• 5:33
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm, yeah.
• 5:34
  Tina Strachan: And I often forget that people are actually listening and when people come up to me and say,"Oh, I was listening to you on this," I'm like,"Oh, that's right." I, I realize, yes, I forget that you listen.
• 5:42
  Tina Strachan: We just do it'cause it's so fun.
• 5:45
  Nick Wasiliev: It's funny how far it travels.
• 5:48
  Tina Strachan: Mm
• 5:48
  Nick Wasiliev: when I ask...
• 5:49
  Nick Wasiliev: Like, some of the funny stories I've encountered, I had Jane R.
• 5:53
  Nick Wasiliev: Miles on talking about her psychological thriller, and she then said...
• 5:57
  Nick Wasiliev: And she's in the Netherlands, like- Mm.
• 5:59
  Nick Wasiliev: Ah in a random spot in the Netherlands, and she was like,"Yeah, I've been...
• 6:03
  Nick Wasiliev: It's nice to put a, a face to the name." And I was like,"What?" She goes,"Yeah, yeah, I've been listening for a while," which tripped me out a little bit that- Yeah my podcast made it to the Netherlands.
• 6:11
  Nick Wasiliev: Are you serious?
• 6:12
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 6:12
  Nick Wasiliev: I'm just putting it out there.
• 6:14
  Nick Wasiliev: So it's funny how far it'll travel.
• 6:16
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Tina Strachan: It's pretty cool, and I find, I'm often surprised by the types of people that are listening to it, the types of authors, because it isn't just, emerging authors and aspiring authors I find that like to listen to these stories.
• 6:28
  Tina Strachan: Uh, because we do a lot of debuts, but also a lot of, established authors and publishing industry professionals, but touching on tips that will help aspiring and debut authors.
• 6:39
  Tina Strachan: And, so you'd think it'd be a lot of debuts and aspiring authors, but there's so many established authors who tell us that they listen So you'd be surprised who's listening because everyone just enjoys, especially hearing those publication journeys, everyone just enjoys hearing that, no matter what stage you're at.
• 6:54
  Nick Wasiliev: It's kind of an industry thing, isn't it?
• 6:56
  Nick Wasiliev: And the cool thing is, I think also probably because a lot of those authors have been in that situation, and so going on- Mm to kind of revisit the experiences that others had, um, and also because it's such a tight industry, um, people, people know people.
• 7:10
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, you know, there's, uh, is, there's very often a six degrees of separation.
• 7:14
  Nick Wasiliev: So often- Mm if there's someone who's really doing very, very well, it's, it's really beneficial to, to know them.
• 7:19
  Nick Wasiliev: So I mean, a couple of authors that I've had on the show back in season one, back in the day, have, have gone on now to become established bestselling authors.
• 7:28
  Nick Wasiliev: I was literally talking this morning with Lisa Ronald, who, uh, I had her on last year for her debut, Special Delivery, and she's now about to put out a, her third book in December, which is a rugby-themed rom-com, and my day job is as a rugby journalist.
• 7:44
  Nick Wasiliev: So I just went, boom, my mind has exploded.
• 7:48
  Nick Wasiliev: Look how far you've come.
• 7:49
  Nick Wasiliev: I'm so proud of you.
• 7:50
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 7:51
  Tina Strachan: That's so...
• 7:51
  Tina Strachan: That is really cool, isn't it?
• 7:52
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 7:53
  Tina Strachan: It is really cool, especially to catch them at that early stage and then just see them progress.
• 7:57
  Tina Strachan: That's, that's awesome.
• 7:59
  Tina Strachan: Three books in a year, holy smokes.
• 8:00
  Tina Strachan: That's quick.
• 8:01
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 8:01
  Nick Wasiliev: I know.
• 8:01
  Nick Wasiliev: I wish
• 8:04
  Tina Strachan: I could do that.
• 8:05
  Tina Strachan: I wish I could do that.
• 8:06
  Tina Strachan: Oh, me too.
• 8:06
  Tina Strachan: Gosh.
• 8:07
  Tina Strachan: Well, speaking of that, Nick, uh,'cause you do write yourself, don't you?
• 8:11
  Tina Strachan: Can you tell us about your book, and tell us about your writing journey, Nick?
• 8:16
  Nick Wasiliev: Well, my writing journey, my debut novel is a book called When Men Cry.
• 8:19
  Nick Wasiliev: I'll put it up, the cover up here for everyone to see.
• 8:23
  Nick Wasiliev: It's, it came out in 2020 so I...
• 8:26
  Nick Wasiliev: It was actually cust- originally I, I custom published it because I thought, you know what?
• 8:30
  Nick Wasiliev: I'll take control of my own destiny a little bit.
• 8:32
  Nick Wasiliev: But from that- Mm-hmm I managed to get a, a, a shoe in, into the industry through Booktopia and then Booktopia published it through Brio Books, um, as well, which was, uh, it got an amazing second life.
• 8:42
  Nick Wasiliev: The story of the novel, it's a contemporary fiction novel set in early 2020 Sydney.
• 8:46
  Nick Wasiliev: It's the story of four men going out.
• 8:49
  Nick Wasiliev: They start out a night on the town, getting out on the dr- on the drinks, having fun, but as the night draws on, it becomes clear something is off with one of them.
• 8:58
  Nick Wasiliev: And so the story be- then becomes an analysis of how these four men sate this friend of theirs.
• 9:05
  Nick Wasiliev: "How are you doing?
• 9:05
  Nick Wasiliev: Are you okay?" So it's a story about honesty and how men speak to each other, and it kind of came from, uh, my time at university where men struggling to speak to each other really, it's a continuous issue that happens all the time.
• 9:18
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, and it's, it, it...
• 9:19
  Nick Wasiliev: I'm very, very lucky as well doing the show.
• 9:21
  Nick Wasiliev: There's a lot of other books also trying to address that, that I've had on the show.
• 9:26
  Nick Wasiliev: It's becoming a topic that is being discussed more and more about.
• 9:29
  Nick Wasiliev: The vast majority of people who've bought it are actually partners of men who are trying to get them to read more and learn- Mm more about it, which is frequently the, the unintended audience that this, this book found.
• 9:40
  Nick Wasiliev: But I'm hoping one day it'll find its way into the hands of more men.
• 9:44
  Nick Wasiliev: But it definitely showed me that I can do it, which often can be terrifying with a debut novel.
• 9:48
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, and that's a, a good thing that it kind of taught me.
• 9:52
  Nick Wasiliev: For the last few years, I've been writing my second.
• 9:55
  Nick Wasiliev: It's taken a long time.
• 9:56
  Nick Wasiliev: It's been a challenging journey.
• 9:59
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, we were talking about it a little bit off air, just kind of the different approaches to take.
• 10:03
  Nick Wasiliev: That first draft I find quite difficult.
• 10:05
  Nick Wasiliev: The exciting thing is this year, because I kind of have transitioned into being a freelance journalist and p- allowing myself to do, to put more time into things like this podcast, it's also meant I can put more time into my writing, which has meant that there's been a lot of progress made this year.
• 10:20
  Nick Wasiliev: So I'm excited to see how it goes.
• 10:23
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, I've got to tell you, it's the, the, well, the concept is, for the second book, is terrifying me, and that's because I know it's pretty good.
• 10:33
  Tina Strachan: Ah.
• 10:33
  Tina Strachan: I love this.
• 10:35
  Tina Strachan: That's the problem.
• 10:35
  Tina Strachan: I love this.
• 10:36
  Tina Strachan: Aha, okay.
• 10:37
  Tina Strachan: So, so you're enjoying writing it then, and it's- Yes flowing.
• 10:41
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 10:42
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 10:42
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 10:42
  Tina Strachan: Oh, I love that.
• 10:43
  Tina Strachan: It is good, uh, like it's an amazing feeling when you do get that vibe.
• 10:46
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause sometimes, sometimes you're right, and it's tricky.
• 10:48
  Tina Strachan: And especially like we were saying before, if you've got a deadline, like it's a little bit harder to kind of get into that, that groove and have it all flow like that sometimes.
• 10:57
  Tina Strachan: Um, so it's great when you get that vibe of,"Hey, this is actually okay." So I love- It is.
• 11:03
  Tina Strachan: Part- hearing that that's where you're at.
• 11:04
  Nick Wasiliev: It is.
• 11:05
  Nick Wasiliev: Part of me has been like, I think maybe the reason maybe why it's, it's taken so long is because I realized the idea had some strong legs to it.
• 11:12
  Nick Wasiliev: The story had some strong legs to it, which was then made it really, really intimidating because I'm like,"How can I do this justice?
• 11:18
  Nick Wasiliev: How can I- Mm not completely squander this story?" I reckon- Yeah I probably was probably paralyzed for about a year just on the idea of how I, I'm not a good enough writer to translate this story that I've thought up with to the page.
• 11:30
  Nick Wasiliev: And then the little voice in the back of my head goes,"Ha ha.
• 11:33
  Nick Wasiliev: That means you have to do it." Mm.
• 11:34
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 11:34
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, so, so it's kind of been a strange...
• 11:37
  Nick Wasiliev: It's been a bit of a double-edged sword, uh, coming up with a story like that.
• 11:40
  Nick Wasiliev: But now that I'm finally committing the time to, to sit down, to write with it, to sit with it a little bit, sit with those themes- Mm what they mean, some of the endpoints on them, um- It's coming together in a way that I'm optimistic, cautiously optimistic Mm optimistic but realistic.
• 11:56
  Nick Wasiliev: Never, never...
• 11:57
  Nick Wasiliev: I- important with a first draft because, uh, all of us authors suffer from imposter syndrome.
• 12:02
  Nick Wasiliev: Never ever, ever get too far ahead of yourself.
• 12:05
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 12:05
  Tina Strachan: That's exactly right.
• 12:06
  Tina Strachan: Remember, we have to go through that.
• 12:08
  Tina Strachan: It's just the writing process, isn't it?
• 12:09
  Tina Strachan: We've all- It is established.
• 12:11
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 12:12
  Tina Strachan: So I love to hear, I love hearing that you are super enthusiastic about this book and that you're getting to that stage of getting the words down.
• 12:20
  Tina Strachan: Some books just take a really long time to come out, don't they?
• 12:23
  Tina Strachan: And there's- Mm do not rush.
• 12:25
  Tina Strachan: Your second book is probably the take home message that we had from Catherine Milne, who we had on the Book Deal podcast.
• 12:31
  Tina Strachan: It was one of our, like, most listened to episodes, obviously,'cause she's, you know, head of fiction at, uh, Harper Collins.
• 12:37
  Tina Strachan: Um, and her biggest advice was,"Don't rush your second book." Uh, so, you know, you are going slow and steady with that second book there, Nick, which is great to hear.
• 12:46
  Tina Strachan: But I wanna hear, um, tell me, like I'm gonna hold you a little bit accountable now, what is your writing schedule and what is your plan to get this finished?
• 12:55
  Nick Wasiliev: So the plan is finished first draft by the end of this year-
• 12:59
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm is the- Mm-hmm
• 13:01
  Nick Wasiliev: goal.
• 13:01
  Nick Wasiliev: Okay.
• 13:01
  Nick Wasiliev: The focus has been, in the past, the focus has been on...
• 13:08
  Nick Wasiliev: I made a terrible mistake, Tina.
• 13:10
  Nick Wasiliev: I made a terrible mistake.
• 13:11
  Nick Wasiliev: In the pa- when I wrote When Men Cry, I made the right decision to...
• 13:15
  Nick Wasiliev: Some people like to write chronologically.
• 13:18
  Nick Wasiliev: I think that's a terrible idea, um, and I've now learnt the hard way.
• 13:23
  Nick Wasiliev: I didn't write W- When Men Cry chronologically.
• 13:25
  Nick Wasiliev: I found those- Yeah scenes that really were the most vivid, and I wrote them down.
• 13:28
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 13:28
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah.
• 13:29
  Nick Wasiliev: That's the correct way to do it.
• 13:30
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, with this book, I started from the beginning.
• 13:34
  Nick Wasiliev: Why did I do that?
• 13:35
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 13:35
  Nick Wasiliev: Why did I do that, Tina?
• 13:36
  Nick Wasiliev: 'Cause it took me forever to get to those kind of key points.
• 13:39
  Nick Wasiliev: So the moment that I- Yeah kind of went,"Actually, you know what?
• 13:41
  Nick Wasiliev: I'm gonna go back to writing those vivid scenes,"'cause there's a lot of vivid scenes in there.
• 13:47
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 13:47
  Nick Wasiliev: Uh, it's been flowing.
• 13:49
  Nick Wasiliev: It's been- Yeah flowing hard.
• 13:51
  Nick Wasiliev: And so- Mm I'm...
• 13:52
  Nick Wasiliev: At the moment, the w- the writing process is less chronologically, but also I've got those scenes, it's more where those scenes fit i- in the- Mm right place in terms of what I'm trying to say.
• 14:04
  Nick Wasiliev: But when the scenes are there, they're coming quick, and they're coming hard- Mm and they're coming vividly, and they're coming...
• 14:10
  Nick Wasiliev: That sounds a bit graphic when I say it like that, doesn't it?
• 14:12
  Tina Strachan: No, it's, it's...
• 14:13
  Tina Strachan: I t- I'm totally, I'm fully nodding,'cause I'm like, I love that space.
• 14:16
  Tina Strachan: I've been in that space recently, and that's...
• 14:19
  Tina Strachan: I'm, I'm a big fan of just word vomiting stuff out on a page.
• 14:22
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 14:22
  Tina Strachan: Like, almost just closing your eyes, if you can touch type, and letting it flow.
• 14:26
  Tina Strachan: And- um, just, just sort of letting it all come out.
• 14:30
  Tina Strachan: And you can worry about where they fit later, and you can worry about all those- Yeah finer details later.
• 14:35
  Tina Strachan: It does not matter.
• 14:35
  Tina Strachan: I've, you know, I spoke about it on the podcast a little while ago with something that I'm working on, and I ended up with, like, 10,000 words of just stuff.
• 14:44
  Tina Strachan: And like, I often- Mm do a, do a blah, and I just let it all go, and it's just, you just like, it's kind of subconscious kind of writing.
• 14:52
  Tina Strachan: And, um, but this was the, probably the most that I've done in one chunk of, like, 10,000 words.
• 14:57
  Tina Strachan: Because ev- uh, it sounds like this is where you are now.
• 14:59
  Tina Strachan: Every time I wrote something, I was like,"And then this should happen.
• 15:03
  Tina Strachan: And then what if this?" And Yep.
• 15:04
  Tina Strachan: Yep.
• 15:05
  Nick Wasiliev: Yep.
• 15:06
  Tina Strachan: But that space, you can't...
• 15:07
  Tina Strachan: It doesn't matter where that's going in the book.
• 15:09
  Tina Strachan: It'll find its way, and that's the scary part.
• 15:11
  Tina Strachan: I have to take a step back now and go like,"Okay, let's try and find where those bits go." But I find that, especially when you come back and you read them and you get...
• 15:18
  Tina Strachan: and you go,"Oh, that was a good idea."'Cause you kinda...
• 15:21
  Tina Strachan: I find that often I forget what, uh, has actually come out because it's almost just this liminal space that you're in where it's just flowing.
• 15:27
  Tina Strachan: Um- Mm and that's super exciting and fun.
• 15:29
  Tina Strachan: But it's also fun to think about
• 15:31
  Nick Wasiliev: It's very fun.
• 15:32
  Nick Wasiliev: It's made the, it's made the first draft, which is, I mean, talking about it previously, I was, um, first draft is the, is the s- the situa- the kind of part of the journey.
• 15:41
  Nick Wasiliev: I love editing.
• 15:41
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 15:42
  Nick Wasiliev: I love having this splodge of mess.
• 15:44
  Nick Wasiliev: Which is, weirdly enough, when, when we were kind of talking about how, how Madeleine and, and Tash are kind of doing edits and stuff, I was kind of, in a weird way, a bit jealous.
• 15:52
  Nick Wasiliev: Yes.
• 15:53
  Nick Wasiliev: Because I was like because you've got Yes, you have a, a deadline, but you have- Yeah something to mold.
• 15:58
  Nick Wasiliev: You have like- Yeah you've got something on the page that you can tinker- Mm and play with- Mm-hmm and make better.
• 16:04
  Nick Wasiliev: Whereas, the blank page is terrifying if you have a kind of just sitting there and you're like,"W- what do I fill this with?" Yeah.
• 16:12
  Nick Wasiliev: So it's this, this process has been, this kind of last few months, this process has been very much kind of taking those scenes and k- and clicking them all together, and it's made the first draft move a lot faster for me, which has been kind of the challenge.
• 16:24
  Nick Wasiliev: And so I'm hoping, you know, as one scenes and other scenes have come together, it's made me go,"Okay, well, I'm gonna use this scene.
• 16:31
  Nick Wasiliev: I'm gonna focus on this scene here." There is a scene that I'm focusing on, which is quite a dark scene, and even kind of pulling from I gotta get myself into the right mood.
• 16:40
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 16:41
  Nick Wasiliev: It kind of- Oh, yeah even that requires a bit of preparation.
• 16:44
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, like- Mm ripping a, a couple of ideas from, oh my God, a, a, the author is escaping me right now.
• 16:50
  Nick Wasiliev: The, um, Kate Forsyth.
• 16:52
  Nick Wasiliev: Thank you.
• 16:53
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 16:53
  Nick Wasiliev: Kate Forsyth.
• 16:54
  Nick Wasiliev: Like, how she'd have a journal of ideas and textures and drawings and things that she'd use as her inspiration.
• 17:00
  Nick Wasiliev: I've kind of been using music playlists.
• 17:03
  Nick Wasiliev: Uh, a, I have this little book of my own with quotes and elements and things in it to get me into that mood to write a particularly dark scene, or something like that.
• 17:11
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah.
• 17:12
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, it's very hard to do.
• 17:14
  Nick Wasiliev: It's kind of a different sort of storytelling.
• 17:15
  Nick Wasiliev: Funnily enough, it's kind of s- it's, it's like podcasting a little bit.
• 17:18
  Nick Wasiliev: You're kind of just speaking and seeing what kinda comes out.
• 17:21
  Nick Wasiliev: And then- Mm but the good thing is once you have that, then you can start to mold it and make it exciting.
• 17:26
  Nick Wasiliev: So aiming for the end of this year.
• 17:28
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 17:29
  Nick Wasiliev: I've made, I've failed many times before, but I feel good.
• 17:32
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 17:33
  Tina Strachan: It sounds like it's on the, you're, you've found your groove and it's on the right track.
• 17:37
  Tina Strachan: Um, we'll have to check in at the end of the year, Nick, and make sure where it's at.
• 17:42
  Tina Strachan: Like a word count check in at the end of every week.
• 17:43
  Tina Strachan: Hold me to account.
• 17:43
  Tina Strachan: Thank you.
• 17:43
  Tina Strachan: Uh, we will.
• 17:43
  Tina Strachan: Hold me to account.
• 17:46
  Tina Strachan: Uh, we will.
• 17:48
  Tina Strachan: You'll have to get on the podcast every time a new episode comes out.
• 17:50
  Tina Strachan: You'll have to let everybody know your word count.
• 17:52
  Tina Strachan: And that will have you accountable.
• 17:55
  Nick Wasiliev: That's a good idea.
• 17:56
  Nick Wasiliev: I should do that.
• 17:57
  Tina Strachan: You should.
• 17:57
  Tina Strachan: That's smart.
• 17:57
  Tina Strachan: I wanna hear it.
• 17:59
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 17:59
  Nick Wasiliev: That's a smart idea.
• 18:01
  Tina Strachan: There you go.
• 18:02
  Nick Wasiliev: Right.
• 18:02
  Nick Wasiliev: I'm, I'm taking that as well.
• 18:03
  Nick Wasiliev: It's been great listening and talking, you know, uh, to each other, and I think a great place for us to now dive into is we're gonna kind of turn this into a bit of a round table discussion.
• 18:13
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, and we love talking about this industry, we love talking about some of the, the challenges, but also the exciting journeys that authors have.
• 18:20
  Nick Wasiliev: And considering that you, uh, you know, Book Deal has so many fantastic discussions around different sorts of topics, this kind of led to me wanting to have a chat and a discussion with, uh, um, together about that journey as a debut author.
• 18:35
  Nick Wasiliev: And so we're gonna kind of frame this around the question, the theme of this discussion really is: what is the biggest challenge facing debut authors in 2026?
• 18:45
  Nick Wasiliev: And I know that that kind of has many different prongs and places and avenues that we can go out of because, you know, I, I guess, Tina, the, there's more, as we kind of alluded to, you know, every journey is different for an author, and there are more options than ever to publish a debut novel.
• 19:05
  Nick Wasiliev: So the question is, do, do you think that makes it...
• 19:08
  Nick Wasiliev: Does that mean authors in 2026 are in a better position?
• 19:11
  Nick Wasiliev: Does that make it easier?
• 19:12
  Nick Wasiliev: Does it make it harder because there's so many books out there now?
• 19:15
  Nick Wasiliev: What, what are your kind of initial thoughts?
• 19:17
  Tina Strachan: Hmm.
• 19:19
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, it's a interesting question, isn't it?
• 19:23
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, I guess there's probably two ways to look at it, like you said, or many ways to look at it.
• 19:28
  Tina Strachan: I, I guess there is...
• 19:30
  Tina Strachan: It's, it's pretty easy these days to, if you decide to self-publish, to do so, and you can have your book up on Amazon, you know, within days.
• 19:41
  Tina Strachan: Um, if you want to print hard copies, that's, that's another thing.
• 19:44
  Tina Strachan: Um, to get traditionally published, I mean, yeah, that's, it- that has always been tough.
• 19:50
  Tina Strachan: It's always been a tough, um, road.
• 19:54
  Tina Strachan: Uh, is it harder now?
• 19:56
  Tina Strachan: Um, I don't know.
• 19:58
  Tina Strachan: I, I, it's, it...
• 20:00
  Tina Strachan: Unless we see, you know, book sales and the amount of books that are being published, uh, new authors that they're taking on.
• 20:07
  Tina Strachan: Is it harder for a debut, I guess, in that climate?
• 20:10
  Tina Strachan: Maybe because we know that book sales have somewhat been dropping, um, in a lot of genres.
• 20:17
  Tina Strachan: So does that make publishers want to go with more established authors or well-known authors that they know are gonna sell books over taking a chance on debuts?
• 20:26
  Tina Strachan: Maybe.
• 20:27
  Tina Strachan: But then I think there's something special about debuts as well that, you know, publishers also love and readers also, also love because everyone's just looking for a new voice and, and it's exciting to, see these new authors come out.
• 20:40
  Tina Strachan: Um, access to, to publishers, I guess, when you have something that you want to submit and, and trying to get that book deal, um, like I said before, it's, I mean, I guess that's always been difficult.
• 20:53
  Tina Strachan: I think that it's really great how we have opportunities to pitch publishers now now, uh, that has grown over the years, with, festivals and, the ASA do their, Australian Society of Authors, do their, pitch sessions where you can pitch to publishers.
• 21:08
  Tina Strachan: There's quite a few competitions that are around where you can submit.
• 21:12
  Tina Strachan: Um, but then the flip side of that is that we lost the CYA conference this year, was our last conference, um, for the CYA, and that, well, that was how I got my, that's how I got in front of a publisher and how I basically got my book deal.
• 21:25
  Tina Strachan: Um, it birthed so many new authors, from that conference, and that now, yeah, that's hundreds and hundreds of sessions and opportunities that have now gone that were available every year.
• 21:38
  Tina Strachan: And lots of publishers do say now that sometimes that's the only way that they're f- finding new authors and accepting new books from new authors is, through those sessions because, the idea of the open submissions is just too overwhelming for them.
• 21:53
  Tina Strachan: They just poss- can't possibly get through all those submissions.
• 21:56
  Tina Strachan: So, so yeah, I, I guess it's a little bit of, it's a little bit of both, right?
• 22:01
  Tina Strachan: It, it, it is probably always gonna be harder, more people wanting to write.
• 22:05
  Tina Strachan: Um- Mm self-publishing and, and having your book available online.
• 22:08
  Tina Strachan: I, I don't, I can't even fathom how yous try to stand out amongst all the others that are on there.
• 22:14
  Tina Strachan: I just, I don't, I just can't even imagine when you're trying to do it all yourself.
• 22:18
  Tina Strachan: Um, so yeah.
• 22:20
  Tina Strachan: I, I, I don't have an answer.
• 22:22
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, there, there is so many reasons.
• 22:24
  Tina Strachan: What do you think, Nic?
• 22:26
  Nick Wasiliev: So I kind of-- I mean, I've sat on this for a while.
• 22:29
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, it's-- I mean, I appreciate your answer and I appreciate that it's also it's a detailed answer because this is a big question.
• 22:36
  Nick Wasiliev: It's really hard to summarize and condense a, a sort of a topic like that.
• 22:40
  Nick Wasiliev: There are a lot of challenges facing w- debut authors in 2026, but the good thing is is that there's a lot of solutions as well.
• 22:48
  Nick Wasiliev: It's never been easier to get published, as you kind of say, with custom publishing, taking control of your own destiny in a way.
• 22:53
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 22:53
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, there's lots and lots of small niche publishers also opening out specializing in particular genres and types.
• 22:59
  Nick Wasiliev: There is an audience for particular stories, um, out there.
• 23:03
  Nick Wasiliev: And you're-- and I think the, you know, a great quote from someone like Margaret Atwood would say,"Somewhere, somewhere out there, there is an audience for your book," which is true.
• 23:13
  Nick Wasiliev: It's, it has been proven correct to me time after time after time.
• 23:19
  Nick Wasiliev: I think what, you know, it-- you know, when authors might kind of look at this, this environment and go,"What the hell do I do?
• 23:27
  Nick Wasiliev: Where the hell do I start?" I think the key thing you need to do is first of all, get that book out of you.
• 23:32
  Nick Wasiliev: Write it.
• 23:33
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 23:34
  Nick Wasiliev: Do it for yourself.
• 23:35
  Nick Wasiliev: Don't do it because you're thinking about making money.
• 23:37
  Nick Wasiliev: Do it because...
• 23:38
  Nick Wasiliev: Do it for yourself, for your own, uh, creative expression.
• 23:42
  Nick Wasiliev: You shouldn't, you shouldn't hinder that or, you know, color that in any way.
• 23:47
  Nick Wasiliev: And then from that, identifying and sifting through what is the right method for you.
• 23:52
  Nick Wasiliev: If you've, you know, written a, a fantastic romance, you know, set on the tennis circuit or it's a rom-com-y sort of environment, you might have a bit more luck pitching to a, a publisher like, you know, your text publishing or your, your large commercial publishing house that specializes in books like that.
• 24:10
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, and if that's your goal as well, identifying what you want from this exercise- Mm-hmm is also critical.
• 24:16
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, going in,"Oh, I'm gonna make money." No, that's you're in the wrong industry.
• 24:20
  Nick Wasiliev: That's not how it works.
• 24:21
  Nick Wasiliev: It, it's definitely a driven by love sort of- Mm-hmm uh, industry.
• 24:25
  Nick Wasiliev: Uh, doing it for the right reasons.
• 24:28
  Nick Wasiliev: If you have written a memoir about your, your grandfather, for example, um, it might make more sense to go either for a smaller niche publisher or even custom publishing it, depending on the audience that you're aiming for.
• 24:39
  Nick Wasiliev: And that I think really helps you to focus on what you want, and that, and, and focus on what is the key goal that you want to achieve.
• 24:49
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, I think that's kind of the-- uh, it's kind of identifying that.
• 24:54
  Nick Wasiliev: It really comes down to the individual in that sort of regard.
• 24:56
  Nick Wasiliev: It's what you're personally aiming to, to shoot for in that regard.
• 25:00
  Nick Wasiliev: It-- A great point that you kind of mentioned bringing it back to the CWA, um, that I think the big challenge with the-- off the back of that is- The issue that I am worried about is that though that those pieces of infrastructure that can give that, those people who are wanting to write need support.
• 25:22
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 25:23
  Nick Wasiliev: That's the, the challenge that I think really is lacking in this day and age.
• 25:27
  Nick Wasiliev: I mean, we've been hearing all da- hearing all year about the issue that Writers Victoria has been having with their funding as well.
• 25:34
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah.
• 25:34
  Nick Wasiliev: As you kind of mentioned with, with CWA as, um, being the last one, that closes a resource for so many authors to potentially get published or get a story out there that you don't, you, you, you might not have had the chance.
• 25:49
  Nick Wasiliev: You, you might have been able to do that if that resource was there.
• 25:52
  Nick Wasiliev: So I think there is, there's a lesson to be had from that.
• 25:56
  Nick Wasiliev: There's a lesson to gain by saying, by focusing on these sorts of things, by recognizing that You know, the arts actually does have a lot of value.
• 26:06
  Nick Wasiliev: And we're not talking about culturally, we're talking also financially.
• 26:10
  Nick Wasiliev: There is a, there Like, it, it often can be left, it often can be left in the background sometimes.
• 26:17
  Nick Wasiliev: Actually having a Recognizing the value of it, I think is something that we probably need to get a little bit better at, um, in this day and age.
• 26:24
  Nick Wasiliev: I don't know if, if it's down to, you know, the fact that, you know, we, we've got this world of social media that's meant that we're all of our, our brains are a little bit shorter, our attention spans, where there's a lot of competition for attention, and ultimately books are also a competition for attention.
• 26:36
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, but it definitely, I think those, those resources to enable people to go out and write should be funded more and supported more.
• 26:43
  Nick Wasiliev: I think that's kind of, I say, the biggest challenge when ask, answering this question about debut authors.
• 26:48
  Nick Wasiliev: If you have that great story out there, that you should ha- be able to go and find and have access to a, the resource to enable you to be able to get it out there, I think is the biggest challenge right now.
• 26:58
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 26:58
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 26:59
  Tina Strachan: Uh, and I think just always, like you mentioned, the writing for the love of it, and all the other stuff can come afterwards.
• 27:05
  Tina Strachan: It's, you've got to remember why you're writing and what you're doing it for, and forget about any idea of money or, or potential publishing.
• 27:13
  Tina Strachan: Just like, just focus on the story.
• 27:16
  Tina Strachan: Like, there's a reason for it.
• 27:17
  Tina Strachan: I think you'd find most authors would still write even if And they'd finish that book even if publishing wasn't ever going to be on the table ever, and they knew that, you know?
• 27:26
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:26
  Tina Strachan: Because these stories are just inside of us, and they need to come out.
• 27:30
  Tina Strachan: And, um, publishing's sort of like the icing on the cake.
• 27:33
  Tina Strachan: And y- yeah.
• 27:34
  Tina Strachan: There's pros and cons for, you know, both the custom publishing and the traditional publishing.
• 27:38
  Tina Strachan: Uh, yeah, I guess just- It is yeah, be aware of, of what's involved with both, I suppose.
• 27:45
  Nick Wasiliev: The good thing is, is that there's a lot of resources out there to help you try and understand that, um,
• 27:50
  Tina Strachan: as well.
• 27:50
  Tina Strachan: There absolutely
• 27:51
  Nick Wasiliev: is
• 27:51
  Tina Strachan: now, yeah.
• 27:52
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 27:52
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah.
• 27:52
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah, there's It's not just, you know, of course, your wonderful podcast and the work that you do.
• 27:56
  Nick Wasiliev: Thank you.
• 27:57
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, but, you know, other resources out there.
• 27:59
  Nick Wasiliev: Even, you know, a couple of publishers do things, uh, around that as well, recognizing exactly what each one can bring and figuring out the pros and cons.
• 28:08
  Nick Wasiliev: Will also, incidentally, I think for an author who isn't necessarily familiar with,"Oh, well, who's my audience for this book that I'm writing?" Mm.
• 28:16
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, it might help'em to, to give them identification, you know, provide that identification.
• 28:20
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 28:21
  Nick Wasiliev: And recognition of,"Okay, well, this is what I can aim at or focus for," which, um, it can, it can be very helpful doing that research.
• 28:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:33
  Hannah Goldstein: Hello, I'm Hannah Goldstein, and I am thrilled to introduce you to my debut novel, Dream Girls.
• 28:42
  Hannah Goldstein: It's a story about an intense, complicated, and messy friendship between two women, Helena and Ruthie.
• 28:50
  Hannah Goldstein: They meet at school where they bond over Wuthering Heights, Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet, and photographs of Joseph Stalin when he's young and hot.
• 29:00
  Hannah Goldstein: The girls dream of living a life of great passion and romance, but as the years pass, they realize that growing up might mean growing apart.
• 29:10
  Hannah Goldstein: Dream Girls was inspired by Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, and it asks whether friendships might be the greatest comedies, tragedies, and above all, love stories of our lives.
• 29:22
  Hannah Goldstein: I think the novel would appeal to fans of Elena Ferrante's My Brilliant Friend, Madeleine Grey's Green Dot, and Mona Awad's All Swell.
• 29:33
  Hannah Goldstein: Dream Girls is published by Allen and Unwin, and it comes out on the third of November twenty twenty-six.
• 29:39
  Hannah Goldstein: It's available at all bookstores.
• 29:42
  Hannah Goldstein: I had so much fun writing this novel.
• 29:44
  Hannah Goldstein: I really hope that readers have fun with it too.
• 29:51
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 29:52
  Nick Wasiliev: Off the back of that, I mean- Kind of thinking about the, that kind of the, those challenges that, that authors can have, I feel like it's, it's such a dice- it's such a, a, a loaded question right now in the industry.
• 30:09
  Nick Wasiliev: I've often to- taken the opinion, it, it's come up increasingly, uh, around the dreaded AI, that AI word that just is never ending.
• 30:18
  Nick Wasiliev: And in my head, I've often said,"Do it because it is fun.
• 30:23
  Nick Wasiliev: An AI voice can't take your voice away.
• 30:26
  Nick Wasiliev: That shouldn't stop you from having a go." I'm not necessarily as worried about it.
• 30:32
  Nick Wasiliev: I mean, I know, like there's, there's so many situations going on about it, but, uh, uh, you know, we don't, we don't even need to go into talking about the whole situation, for example, involving Shy Girl and all of the talk and- Mm-hmm controversies around that.
• 30:45
  Nick Wasiliev: It's a very dicey topic and it's- Mm it's complicated.
• 30:50
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, out of curiosity, do you think that, say, it, it's not something that necessarily...
• 30:55
  Nick Wasiliev: I, I mean, while it is something that's a big topic in the industry right now, if you are a debut author, is focusing on yourself the more important goal?
• 31:05
  Tina Strachan: Hmm.
• 31:06
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, a- and with everything, I think, even with real other authors, like instead of AI- Yeah like, you know, um, you just can't worry about what other people are doing or what their journey is or, so many times there's, I've heard from debut authors just before their books have come out, another book's been released that's ex- well, not exactly like theirs,'cause nothing is gonna be exactly like yours, but it follows the same topics, you know?
• 31:26
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:27
  Tina Strachan: And you just can't worry about that.
• 31:29
  Tina Strachan: Just, y- your story's your story, and, you just have to write what's true to you.
• 31:33
  Tina Strachan: And so same with the whole AI thing, there's been so much progress, from both angles.
• 31:40
  Tina Strachan: One, progress in, like, people are literally now just openly saying,"I have an i- I've got this idea.
• 31:45
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna run it through the AI generator, and it's gonna print me out this book in five minutes, and I'm gonna have it on Amazon by the end of the day, and I'm gonna sell probably a ton of them." Like, there are people who are openly doing that now, which is- Hmm odd, and admitting to it.
• 31:59
  Tina Strachan: I guess at least they're admitting to it, right?
• 32:00
  Tina Strachan: Um, but then people are buying it, whether they know it or not.
• 32:05
  Tina Strachan: Um, b- and but then there's also a lot of progress, especially here in Australia, with how we're trying to stop that sort of thing from happening.
• 32:12
  Tina Strachan: And I, yeah, I just think support the people and the organizations that are working towards stopping, AI-generated books and, I guess, providing some, um, guidelines and things around how this, we should manage AI into the future when it comes to creativity, um- Hmm and just keep doing your thing.
• 32:32
  Tina Strachan: I've heard a lot of people explain the steps that they're going to now in an effort to one day, if they have to, prove that they actually did write the book themselves by keeping all these files and folders and evidence and stuff like that as they go in case they ever need it, in case they ever...
• 32:48
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause who knows what's, what happens, into the future?
• 32:51
  Tina Strachan: But they're just making sure they're covered and, it does get you a little bit worried, like should I still be doing the same thing?
• 32:56
  Tina Strachan: Which I would be terrible at, mind you.
• 32:57
  Tina Strachan: There's no There's no way I could...
• 32:59
  Tina Strachan: I mean, I don't know.
• 33:00
  Tina Strachan: I mean, it's in...
• 33:01
  Tina Strachan: I, I feel like it can be shown and, like, honestly the, the quality that comes out, probably my first draft is very clear that it's human written and not, I think Tash said something about that in that last inter- interview.
• 33:12
  Tina Strachan: She's like,"The amount of edits I got back proves very clearly," like,"No one is doubting me-" that this is AI." Like, you know?
• 33:20
  Tina Strachan: Oh, bless her.
• 33:21
  Tina Strachan: So there you go.
• 33:21
  Tina Strachan: Write mentally everyone.
• 33:23
  Tina Strachan: Like my, publishers have been doing this for a really long time.
• 33:25
  Tina Strachan: I'm su- they know what voice is.
• 33:27
  Tina Strachan: They know what voice is, and AI is getting very good, but it's still not a human.
• 33:31
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, it has its, it has its place.
• 33:34
  Tina Strachan: Like, for admin, cool.
• 33:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 33:36
  Tina Strachan: Great.
• 33:37
  Tina Strachan: Like throw some information- Mm in there and be like,"Can you put this in an Excel file for me?" You know?
• 33:41
  Tina Strachan: Um, what's, what's a good recipe I can make tonight with this, like, little bit of leftover pasta and some chicken?
• 33:48
  Tina Strachan: Just things like that.
• 33:49
  Tina Strachan: It is, it can be extremely helpful for a lot of things, right?
• 33:51
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 33:52
  Tina Strachan: But creativity, I, I just stay right away from it.
• 33:58
  Tina Strachan: But- Mm I just d- I just downloaded the new Scrivener, um,'cause I write in Scrivener, the version th- three I think it is.
• 34:06
  Tina Strachan: And I'd been using it for a little while when I started...
• 34:08
  Tina Strachan: It kept trying to highlight things for me, and I realized when I clicked on it, it's like,"Would you like me to rewrite this for you?
• 34:13
  Tina Strachan: Would you like me to make it sound more professional, more friendly?" And I was like,"Hey, what the?
• 34:17
  Tina Strachan: What's...
• 34:17
  Tina Strachan: Hang on." Ugh.
• 34:18
  Tina Strachan: Ugh.
• 34:18
  Tina Strachan: What?
• 34:18
  Tina Strachan: No, no.
• 34:18
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: Ugh.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: And so I was like,"Hang on.
• 34:20
  Tina Strachan: Oh my gosh." I was like,"Maybe I just don't even use Scrivener anymore," because how can I, you know, this is blah.
• 34:26
  Tina Strachan: Um, but then I notice even in Adobe Acrobat, like, you know, your Acrobat Reader for your PDF files, that does that now too.
• 34:33
  Tina Strachan: If you highlight, I mean, I don't know, I just got a new computer so I've got all the new, like, updates and stuff.
• 34:38
  Tina Strachan: If I, if you highlight a sentence in Adobe Acrobat, like Adobe Acrobat that was just meant to read words for you, it's like,"Would you like me to reword that for you?" I, so it's everywhere and it's forcing itself on us and I don't know.
• 34:50
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:50
  Tina Strachan: I've got to find a way of turning all that off of my computer.
• 34:53
  Tina Strachan: But look, I, I don't know.
• 34:55
  Tina Strachan: The...
• 34:56
  Tina Strachan: And like you said, it's such a can of worms.
• 34:58
  Tina Strachan: There is so many things to it.
• 34:59
  Tina Strachan: Let's not even get started on the environmental impacts- Yeah of, you know- Oh, God, yes these big data centers.
• 35:04
  Tina Strachan: Don't even get me started.
• 35:05
  Tina Strachan: Um- Mm or the fact that, you know, I was talking to a kid yesterday who was reading out his, um- presentation for school to me and all the facts in it, I did that with Rabbit Ears for those just listening, the facts in it, I was like,"They're not..." I mean, they were about animals too, so I feel like I've got a pretty good, you know, sense of these animal facts being correct or not.
• 35:26
  Tina Strachan: And I was like,"That does not sound right." I'm like,"Oh, an interest.
• 35:28
  Tina Strachan: Where'd you do your research?
• 35:30
  Tina Strachan: Where'd you get your facts from?" And he's like,"Uh, look, I just Googled it." And I was like,"Okay, cool." He's like,"Well, you know, I, we have nowhere else to find this information." And I was like,"Yeah, you do." And like, even if it is online, are we even teaching our kids where to find the facts online- Mm instead of just the AI generated information that comes up again?
• 35:50
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause I can tell you now they were wrong and I just, ugh.
• 35:52
  Tina Strachan: And I, you know, it's so, it's so systemic if like, if it, if it's even in the school.
• 35:57
  Tina Strachan: So there's just, there is so much to it, uh, don't know where to start.
• 36:01
  Tina Strachan: And I guess when it comes to worrying about it in your own creativity and your own writing, I don't know.
• 36:07
  Tina Strachan: I know I'm staying as far away from that as I possibly can.
• 36:11
  Nick Wasiliev: Br- bringing it back to kind of the, the, the question, and I'm, again, I feel bad for asking that question
• 36:16
  Tina Strachan: because it's so- Sorry, did I go like right off topic then?
• 36:18
  Nick Wasiliev: No, no.
• 36:18
  Nick Wasiliev: I, no, I, so the reason why, like I, I think the reason why I had to like kind of thought about touching on it is because it, it just, it's right now it's in the zeitgeist, particularly within the publishing space.
• 36:29
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 36:29
  Nick Wasiliev: And I think debut authors, uh, on its face seem much more, um, threatened by it because- Mm they, it might...
• 36:37
  Nick Wasiliev: The, the worry I have is people will look at AI and go,"Well, there's not even any point in me attempting to write this story I have in my head," which is the big worry I have with it.
• 36:47
  Nick Wasiliev: B- um, in, and I think while I think it is sad to see, uh, that, you know, people might have to make a catalog to prove that they actually wrote something down, kind of that point that you made, what this whole exercise is teaching me is th- is all of those hours of practice, hours of sitting with your book and writing it down, even if it is a ton of crap in your eyes, it has value.
• 37:16
  Nick Wasiliev: It has a lot of value, and I think that's kind of where I say to kind of debut authors, again, do it because it's fun.
• 37:22
  Nick Wasiliev: Don't try and think of the reasoning being making money.
• 37:26
  Nick Wasiliev: Like the idea of,"Oh, I'm gonna put this idea into a, into a thing and make a book, and send it out and put it out on Amazon." In my head that's y- but where's the joy in creating?
• 37:38
  Nick Wasiliev: The joy in creating is why we do this.
• 37:41
  Nick Wasiliev: That's why we're doing it.
• 37:43
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 37:43
  Nick Wasiliev: That's the entire purpose that we're all here.
• 37:45
  Nick Wasiliev: It's a creative, fun industry.
• 37:47
  Nick Wasiliev: It's meant to be something that at its core you're doing for fun.
• 37:50
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah.
• 37:50
  Nick Wasiliev: And I think increasingly I'm realizing that all that time that you spend, hours and hours and hours and hours of editing and writing and, and doing whatever you do, in fact does have value.
• 38:03
  Nick Wasiliev: Um- Yeah and, and I think humans at the moment are, are quite good at picking up on something being clearly- Mm not human made.
• 38:14
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, it's getting better and better, which is terrifying me a little bit, but, um
• 38:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, and I'm sure there'll be a point where we just can't tell at all, and I don't know.
• 38:22
  Tina Strachan: I have to say for those people that are creating full AI generated books to put out there onto Amazon are not actual true writers and not writing for the right reason- Yeah or with a r- with a passion.
• 38:32
  Tina Strachan: They're writing to make some money in a really cheap and easy way, and they're not doing it for the true reasons that actual authors, human authors are doing it for.
• 38:42
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, i- if you're passionate about writing you're not going to ruin the whole industry with, with just computer created books.
• 38:52
  Nick Wasiliev: At the end of the day, you gotta create something that it's in your own voice.
• 38:56
  Nick Wasiliev: There's s- the value of
• 38:57
  Tina Strachan: it- Yeah
• 38:57
  Nick Wasiliev: what this has taught me, again, is the va- not only the value of spending hours and hours and hours on that craft, because it does- Mm come through.
• 39:04
  Nick Wasiliev: It's also- Mm the value of working on your own voice and refining- Mm on your own voice.
• 39:08
  Nick Wasiliev: And so to any ki- in answering that kind of caveat of this question, I kinda say there is value in voice, there is value in your time investing yourself into that voice, and there's time, and there's value in investing your time in that craft.
• 39:20
  Nick Wasiliev: Because- Mm you'll create something that'll leave much more of an impact on a reader than something you went,"Oh, here's a great idea.
• 39:26
  Nick Wasiliev: I'll just push it through here." So- Yeah which it, which br- which kind of in my head is like, well, if you are a debut author do it again.
• 39:33
  Nick Wasiliev: Do it because it's fun.
• 39:34
  Nick Wasiliev: Do it because you- Mm want to learn a craft and a skill and find joy in it.
• 39:39
  Nick Wasiliev: Because- Mm at the end of the day that's why we're here.
• 39:43
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 39:43
  Tina Strachan: And I don't think it's ever going to take the jobs away or the books away f- or the potential publishing contracts away unless there becomes a really big market for people or of, of people who actually are very happy to read computer generated slop.
• 39:58
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause I mean they will have to be, um, uh, disclaiming, having disclaimers about whether it is AI generated or not, right?
• 40:06
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 40:06
  Tina Strachan: Um, so if there's an audience for that, a really big audience for that, well, then maybe we should get worried.
• 40:11
  Tina Strachan: I just don't believe that, and maybe I'm being naive, but I just don't believe that there's gonna be a really big audience of people who are happy to read something completely written by, and willingly and knowingly wanting to read something completely written by a computer.
• 40:26
  Tina Strachan: I just- Call me naive maybe, but I just, I, I'm hopeful in humanity that we will we'll get through this
• 40:35
  Nick Wasiliev: I do hope so as well.
• 40:36
  Nick Wasiliev: I'll also be realistic, if you are a debut author, don't think it's gonna be a full-time job, even if you do make it.
• 40:41
  Nick Wasiliev: It's, uh, very frequently not going to be.
• 40:44
  Nick Wasiliev: You will have to do a side hustle.
• 40:46
  Nick Wasiliev: I think I once, uh, got to chat with Bryce Courtney when I was very, very young, which gives you a sense of how far, how long ago it was, and I asked him,"What's the best piece of advice you could give someone for an aspir- you could give an aspiring writer?" Quietly asking the question of, you know, I'm, I'm asking just in general, but it's really for me, and he said,"Yeah, be prepared to get another job." Yeah.
• 41:04
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, which I think is- Don't give up
• 41:06
  Tina Strachan: your day job.
• 41:07
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Nick Wasiliev: Don't give up your day job, uh, which I would definitely say is true.
• 41:10
  Nick Wasiliev: Again, do it because it's fun.
• 41:12
  Nick Wasiliev: Is that really, I think it's, I feel like is that the bigge- the best answer to this, to this question?
• 41:17
  Nick Wasiliev: The biggest challenge facing debut authors in 2026?
• 41:19
  Nick Wasiliev: I feel like, uh, we've gone down so many rabbit holes already.
• 41:22
  Tina Strachan: Well, I know, yeah.
• 41:23
  Tina Strachan: And maybe, and I just wanna interject that my dog is snoring on the floor beside me, so apologies for the weird noises that you may hear.
• 41:31
  Tina Strachan: Um, she's a loud snorer.
• 41:33
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, look, I mean, at the crux of it, yeah, probably.
• 41:39
  Tina Strachan: You're not, you're, it's very few people are going to make enough money from book sales alone to fund their lifestyle.
• 41:48
  Tina Strachan: I think if, I think, again, there's many answers to the question, and I think it's about being realistic and having a good understanding of what that means.
• 41:56
  Tina Strachan: So being a full-time writer for some people is completely different to others.
• 42:00
  Tina Strachan: You could have, um, many other support systems coming in, like the family's bringing in enough money anyway that it, like you don't, like your couple of book sales and maybe your ELR, PLR is enough to fund you to write full time, and that's, that's fantastic and very, um, fortunate if you can do that.
• 42:17
  Tina Strachan: Um, but some people need to make a full income and, and so they have to work a full job.
• 42:21
  Tina Strachan: You know, that's just, and that's the reality of it, and being able to quit just on book sales alone is probably, you know, for many of us, not going to happen.
• 42:31
  Tina Strachan: Um, and keeping your day job or finding another job, uh, yeah, I mean, that's, that's very true, and I think a lot of...
• 42:39
  Tina Strachan: And I, I remember be- hearing this really early on, this piece of information.
• 42:42
  Tina Strachan: I can't remember where I heard it.
• 42:43
  Tina Strachan: It might have been on the First Time podcast maybe.
• 42:46
  Tina Strachan: Um, and a few, I mean, it's, it's, you know, a lot of people talk about it, of just, um, that the majority of your income as a writer won't be from your actual book sales.
• 42:58
  Tina Strachan: It'll be for everything that comes around it, but associated with that.
• 43:01
  Tina Strachan: So, you know, you could be hosting writing workshops, you could be doing library talks, you could be doing festival, uh, appearances.
• 43:08
  Tina Strachan: You know, lots of different things that come from the book that you produced, and, you know, you've just got all this, you know, side work, I guess.
• 43:16
  Tina Strachan: But like we sort of mentioned earlier, um, I see that as just the job of an author as well.
• 43:23
  Tina Strachan: Like, it is all just, you know, it's, it's all different avenues of money coming to you, I guess.
• 43:28
  Tina Strachan: Um- But your book is the crux of that.
• 43:32
  Tina Strachan: Like, you wouldn't be able to do that other stuff without your book.
• 43:34
  Tina Strachan: But you, so you just have to be really aware that it is probably gonna come from other, um, avenues.
• 43:39
  Tina Strachan: But if it's aligned with what you wanna do, like I love all that other stuff.
• 43:43
  Tina Strachan: I think that's like one of the bonuses and the benefits of having writing.
• 43:46
  Tina Strachan: It's like, well, I've written the books and they're out in the stores, and that's so cool.
• 43:49
  Tina Strachan: Amen.
• 43:50
  Tina Strachan: So cool.
• 43:50
  Tina Strachan: You- Like, I think I said to you this morning, um, uh, it was kids book week at school today, and there was kids dressed up as my characters from my books, which I just, honestly, that is just the dream that you just, I just never could fathom that, you know?
• 44:03
  Tina Strachan: And- Love it i've been doing school talks, yeah, and going to libraries and going to bookstores and talking to kids that are coming over and, like, chatting and it's just, like that's the, that is the job, you know?
• 44:12
  Tina Strachan: It, it is just multifaceted and, you get i- things are just coming in from all different places and sometimes it just opens avenues and doors that you don't realize, but that is the actual job as well of being an author.
• 44:23
  Tina Strachan: And you don't have to do those things, but- Mm and some people probably are very lucky, or some people can probably make enough money from their book sales that they don't have to do any of those, but they are, they're, they're probably, they definitely are few and far between, I suppose, that can make a full author just on book sales or after a really long career.
• 44:43
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 44:43
  Nick Wasiliev: It's true.
• 44:44
  Nick Wasiliev: It's true.
• 44:45
  Nick Wasiliev: Uh, is it great, and also the fact is, like, I kind of love those things on the side because it means that you- Mm you connect with the community, and the community is, everyone gets it, which is make, which makes it so much more fun.
• 44:55
  Nick Wasiliev: When you meet up at festivals, it's like a bunch of-
• 44:59
  Tina Strachan: Oh, so
• 44:59
  Nick Wasiliev: fun people getting together.
• 44:59
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 45:00
  Nick Wasiliev: Oh, it's so much fun.
• 45:01
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 45:01
  Tina Strachan: Like- It's so fun.
• 45:03
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 45:03
  Tina Strachan: And you're sell- not selling yourself, but if you wanna have a look at it in the way of, like, making money, I guess, that,'cause that's the one thing that I find for me, it, like, shifts the needles with, needle with book sales, I think.
• 45:15
  Tina Strachan: I- Yeah'cause everyone wants to know what sh- what, what can I do to sell more books?
• 45:19
  Tina Strachan: And, you have that initial marketing period when your book comes out, and so all that's helpful, a- and you can do, you know, there'll be sometimes social media and all those sorts of things, and I, I, hopefully your publisher, is helping with that as well.
• 45:31
  Tina Strachan: Um, but then it is more of a long game.
• 45:33
  Tina Strachan: There is a really long, like, tail to that if you want your book to keep selling,'cause we know that those book- the books on the shelf at the bookstore are really, the time there is really quite short-lived because they're constantly getting books in and they need the space on the shelf to put the new ones.
• 45:46
  Tina Strachan: So they're gonna put the new ones and the o- the older ones are gonna go, and we know that.
• 45:50
  Tina Strachan: But if you can get out and about, if you're able to, I know a lot of people just don't have the, um, any, you know, opportunities nearby, don't have the ability to travel, um, or the accessibility issues.
• 46:03
  Tina Strachan: But if you can even do online stuff or just anything to make that connection Uh, it's, uh, for, for what...
• 46:12
  Tina Strachan: It sounds like a terrible term, but selling, selling yourself.
• 46:14
  Tina Strachan: But you, like, you- you're making that connection, you're showing everybody who you are, making that human connection, and then you can also talk about your books as well and why you like writing.
• 46:25
  Tina Strachan: And I find that, you know what?
• 46:26
  Tina Strachan: Sometimes you might sell a few books, you know, at, at these festivals or, uh, in-person appearances or if you do some bookstore signings.
• 46:35
  Tina Strachan: But I find even if you don't, there's still always benefit, and whether that's a new connection or strengthening a new connection or there's some opportunity, always I find every single time I come home from something and I say to my husband, like,"This happened," or,"I met this person," and, like,"This opportunity's come up," always.
• 46:51
  Tina Strachan: So yeah, definitely that's part, that's part of the job, you know, getting out there and chatting, and it's very fun part of the job.
• 46:59
  Nick Wasiliev: It's a...
• 46:59
  Nick Wasiliev: I think this is probably a good spot to finish'cause I know we could talk about this all day.
• 47:02
  Nick Wasiliev: But I know, like, all three things are fun and interesting and it's, it's, it's...
• 47:06
  Nick Wasiliev: it is one of the great joys of it.
• 47:08
  Nick Wasiliev: It's not just about the writing, but also going out and meeting the other people who've walked a mile in those shoes, um- Mm-hmm and finding out there's a wonderful community.
• 47:16
  Nick Wasiliev: There's a great...
• 47:17
  Nick Wasiliev: It was a, a great quote, quote.
• 47:19
  Nick Wasiliev: I got to chat with Holden Sheppard, um, t- and he had just come back from, I think he was doing a tour for King of Dirt.
• 47:27
  Nick Wasiliev: Um- Mm-hmm and he was absolutely knackered, and he was so tired, and he talked about how, you know, he'd just gotten back to WA, he was so tired, he was...
• 47:38
  Nick Wasiliev: and he was not very particularly happy.
• 47:41
  Nick Wasiliev: It'd been the end of a very long tour on the road.
• 47:44
  Nick Wasiliev: Then he went to a school event and, and met this y- this year 12 b- bloke who said,"I'm a massive fan of your books.
• 47:51
  Nick Wasiliev: I think they're amazing." And he had this wonderful day at school, and it really lifted his spirits.
• 47:55
  Nick Wasiliev: And he kind of said- And it, it kind of summarized where I think you, you are, you have to kind of approach it as if you are someone who is looking to get into, into the industry.
• 48:05
  Nick Wasiliev: Be a debut writer.
• 48:06
  Nick Wasiliev: Be a writer.
• 48:07
  Nick Wasiliev: He said,"I think I'm doing what I need to be doing.
• 48:09
  Nick Wasiliev: It's hard, and I'm always stressed, and it's hard to make money to make a living off it, but I'm doing what I love."
• 48:17
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 48:18
  Nick Wasiliev: And I think- Mm-hmm that's probably the best way to approach it.
• 48:21
  Nick Wasiliev: Um- Yeah he's going gangbusters now with his books, like, being- Yes adapted and going to America.
• 48:26
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah.
• 48:26
  Nick Wasiliev: Like, but I know for a fact that, uh, you know, it's, it comes with a lot of days of traveling around, journeys- Mm-hmm adventures.
• 48:34
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, but you'll never fi- You'll, you'll be so surprised by how far that little book will travel and all the- Mm-hmm crazy opportunities that come out of the top of it.
• 48:42
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 48:42
  Tina Strachan: It's a long game, too, but y- if you do it'cause you love it, it'll be fine.
• 48:47
  Tina Strachan: And every job has a, has little bits of it that you don't love doing.
• 48:50
  Tina Strachan: Every job.
• 48:51
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah.
• 48:52
  Nick Wasiliev: It's true.
• 48:52
  Tina Strachan: Okay, Nick.
• 48:53
  Tina Strachan: Now, I know that you do this on Date With a Debut, and I think it's really important and such a fun segment to talk about some debut books that we love.
• 49:01
  Nick Wasiliev: Yes.
• 49:02
  Tina Strachan: Do you wanna- Absolutely tell us, have you got a couple there that you wanna recommend?
• 49:06
  Nick Wasiliev: I brought, uh, two with me.
• 49:08
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, I've brought a couple that I've, have really, uh, you know, brought, been brought to my attention and I've had on the show, but I've really, really enjoyed.
• 49:15
  Nick Wasiliev: They're books that have really stood out and so- something that have, have brought me a lot of joy.
• 49:20
  Nick Wasiliev: The first one is a historical novel, um, which is- Is it The Butterfly
• 49:24
  Tina Strachan: Women by Madeleine Cleary?
• 49:27
  Nick Wasiliev: So funny you say that.
• 49:29
  Nick Wasiliev: There is a connection and I will tell you the connection- Okay, okay in a second.
• 49:32
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:33
  Nick Wasiliev: So the book is And in the Morning by Leni Robertson.
• 49:36
  Nick Wasiliev: Uh, so Leni is an absolute suckup of history, and this book, uh, it won the Quentin Bryce Award, um- Wow in the 2026 Quentin Bryce Award.
• 49:45
  Nick Wasiliev: And it basically tells the story of three different timelines that dovetail into one another around the impact that war has on women.
• 49:57
  Nick Wasiliev: Set during the First World War, the Second World War, and the Vietnam War.
• 50:03
  Nick Wasiliev: Three wars that were all viewed in a very different context and very different environment.
• 50:08
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, the First World War is set, the segment is set in 1919 after an, uh, a soldier comes back from four years away, dealing with a child that was born in 1915 that he's never met.
• 50:19
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, and all of the years that m- of missed out being a dad, while also dealing with what would become eventually be, to be known as post-traumatic stress disorder.
• 50:27
  Nick Wasiliev: The second timeline follows 1940s, right in the middle of the Second World War.
• 50:32
  Nick Wasiliev: The fact that even though there was this big war happening, like, kids were still being kids in Melbourne.
• 50:38
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 50:38
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 50:38
  Nick Wasiliev: There were thousands of, of, of kids meeting each other and going out and partying.
• 50:43
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, a- and you know, Australia was doing its role as the unsinkable aircraft carrier.
• 50:47
  Nick Wasiliev: There were US soldiers everywhere.
• 50:50
  Nick Wasiliev: Lots and lots of things happen when young kids get together, young adults, whatever, whatever you may be.
• 50:54
  Nick Wasiliev: And then the last segment is a mother coming to terms with the, the loss of her son in Vietnam.
• 51:01
  Nick Wasiliev: And of course, Vietnam held a very, very different place to those previous wars.
• 51:06
  Nick Wasiliev: It's a fantastic examination and di- and, uh, and deep dive into grief and loss and the impact that war has on women.
• 51:15
  Nick Wasiliev: And the reason why I say there's a connection is because Lenie actually also did an autobiography on Madame Brussels called This Modern Pandemonium, and I asked her,"Have you ha- spoken with Madeleine Cleary?" And she said,"No." There was no connection whatsoever, and I said,"Make it happen."
• 51:30
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 51:31
  Tina Strachan: There you go, Mads.
• 51:32
  Tina Strachan: There's a connection for you.
• 51:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 51:34
  Tina Strachan: Oh, cool.
• 51:34
  Tina Strachan: Oh, awesome.
• 51:35
  Tina Strachan: But that sounds like an incredible book.
• 51:37
  Tina Strachan: I see why it was- Yeah nominated for awards.
• 51:40
  Nick Wasiliev: Yeah, it's-
• 51:40
  Tina Strachan: Yeah
• 51:41
  Nick Wasiliev: a great examination into history and loss, and, uh, strongly recommend it.
• 51:45
  Nick Wasiliev: I know that- Mm-hmm uh, books, you know, you can't go wrong with a good book, good book recommendation.
• 51:50
  Tina Strachan: Mm-mm.
• 51:51
  Tina Strachan: No, that's right.
• 51:52
  Tina Strachan: No, it's good to get, especially when there's so many on the shelves, like we have s- uh, like mentioned earlier.
• 51:57
  Tina Strachan: It's like sometimes it's just so hard to choose.
• 51:59
  Tina Strachan: I did a bookstore event on the weekend, and I just I was meant to be, like, over at my books, and I was, like, just browsing the aisles of...
• 52:06
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause there's so-- The beautiful covers.
• 52:09
  Tina Strachan: There's, the covers have just taken a whole new level, I think, lately.
• 52:12
  Tina Strachan: Like, they just look amazing.
• 52:14
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 52:14
  Tina Strachan: And I'm just like,"I don't know which one to choose." Not that you should choose because of a cover, but- you know, you kinda do sometimes.
• 52:19
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 52:21
  Tina Strachan: Is there any books- Of- out of curiosity, yeah, for you?
• 52:23
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 52:24
  Tina Strachan: So I do, and you know what?
• 52:25
  Tina Strachan: Mine's got historical flavor as well.
• 52:27
  Tina Strachan: Um, I've got a- Ooh um, I've got two children's books for recommendations today, and the first one is actually a middle grade book.
• 52:35
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna hold it up for you.
• 52:37
  Tina Strachan: It's called RIP Nanny Tobbins.
• 52:39
  Tina Strachan: Um, it's a debut book from Lucy Stephens
• 52:42
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm
• 52:43
  Tina Strachan: And it's so cool.
• 52:44
  Tina Strachan: It's like, um, Tim Burton cross Mary Poppins, which already just sounds like super exciting.
• 52:52
  Tina Strachan: Historical fiction but it's super fun.
• 52:55
  Tina Strachan: All about Nanny Toppins who's actually a ghost, who is looking after her- Ooh charge there.
• 52:59
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 53:00
  Tina Strachan: And so it's kinda ghost- ghostly and spooky, but beautifully written.
• 53:04
  Tina Strachan: Beautiful world building.
• 53:06
  Tina Strachan: And there's a, there's actually a sequel out to it now too, but that was, Lucy's first book from last year, and it's truly...
• 53:12
  Tina Strachan: It's just really well written, and I just haven't read something like that for a very long time.
• 53:18
  Tina Strachan: So yeah, definitely anyone looking for, uh, probably ages eight plus, so strong- Mm-hmm um, eight-year-old readers would, uh, really enjoy that
• 53:29
  Nick Wasiliev: It's so wonderful when a book aimed at that age group comes out like that, something that really sort of stands out.
• 53:36
  Nick Wasiliev: And even when it's talking on a, on a topic of, uh, of ghosts and kind of concepts like that, showing them in, in different and strange ways.
• 53:45
  Nick Wasiliev: It sounds really, really cool.
• 53:46
  Nick Wasiliev: Also, the fact that it's a series-
• 53:48
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 53:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah that, that you can get
• 53:49
  Nick Wasiliev: into.
• 53:50
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 53:51
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 53:51
  Tina Strachan: Very cool.
• 53:51
  Tina Strachan: What else have you got for us?
• 53:52
  Tina Strachan: What's your next recommendation?
• 53:54
  Nick Wasiliev: Well, it's funny that you mention kind of a theme of ghosts or concepts like that, because my second book has a, it holds a very special place.
• 54:02
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, it's a book called Imogen in Waiting by Lindsay Bartels.
• 54:07
  Nick Wasiliev: Oh.
• 54:07
  Nick Wasiliev: And this is a, this is a definitely a pivot away.
• 54:09
  Nick Wasiliev: It's a kind of a memoir, and it's a fact, a really...
• 54:14
  Nick Wasiliev: There's been a kind of a theme of books that have kind of been coming through for Date With a Debut this year, examining topics of fertility and the challenges- Mm and the loaded space that fertility holds, um, within, you know, for women.
• 54:27
  Nick Wasiliev: And there's so many wonderful books that, that deep dive into those examinations of, of that sort of thing.
• 54:32
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, uh, Katie Hoskings' uh, When the Party's Over touches on that.
• 54:36
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 54:36
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, a gr- uh, I had, um, The Beauty of Broken Things by Melissa Sharman, who if you just, for the love of God, just go and read that book.
• 54:45
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm.
• 54:45
  Nick Wasiliev: It's an excellent...
• 54:46
  Nick Wasiliev: It's incredibly intense,'cause it also deals with topics of domestic violence.
• 54:50
  Nick Wasiliev: So there definitely is a discretion when it comes there.
• 54:52
  Nick Wasiliev: But her, what she's achieved with Egg Donation Australia is nothing short of phenomenal.
• 54:57
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, but Imogen in Waiting follows Lindsay's story.
• 55:01
  Nick Wasiliev: She, um, was diagnosed with cancer at a very, very young age.
• 55:05
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, and she went through that treatment of cancer, and she was basically given this decision, you know, she saved, she got a couple of her eggs saved on, on a couple of occasions.
• 55:14
  Nick Wasiliev: And she found- The, she has the, th- this BRCA gene, this breast cancer gene, and she was basically said,"You've got three successful embryos, two boys and one girl with the BRCA gene." So the question comes up, do you let that child live knowing that it's going to have to go through the challenges that you are going to have to go through as, um, a parent?
• 55:40
  Nick Wasiliev: And it is such a fantastic deep examination.
• 55:43
  Nick Wasiliev: It's also beautifully told.
• 55:45
  Nick Wasiliev: Lindsay on many occasions talks to Imogen directly.
• 55:49
  Nick Wasiliev: It's a concept that happens quite directly.
• 55:53
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, there's, she d- ultimately does try to bring Imogen into the world.
• 55:58
  Nick Wasiliev: Um, it's not, unfortunately it doesn't pan out the way she hoped it does.
• 56:03
  Nick Wasiliev: But what I love about this book is that it, it talks about very difficult topics and subjects with honesty and kindness and care.
• 56:10
  Nick Wasiliev: It says things that need to be out in the world more.
• 56:13
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 56:13
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 56:13
  Nick Wasiliev: It's a book that I think, and the way we kind of described it, I said, Imogen, you know, Imogen might not be here physically, but she exists now as this book.
• 56:23
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 56:23
  Nick Wasiliev: She can go out into the world and do incredible good, um, and ta- talk about a subject that needs to be talked about.
• 56:30
  Nick Wasiliev: She's, that, that is how she will live, and that is wonderful.
• 56:34
  Nick Wasiliev: Um- Yeah it's highly recommended.
• 56:36
  Nick Wasiliev: E- even if you are someone who has had children and doesn't want to- Mm and, you know, y- you've gone, have gone through that part of your life or you're someone who is looking- Mm to have children, I think it's a book that is definitely worth your time and s- everyone should read at least once.
• 56:49
  Tina Strachan: Mm, absolutely.
• 56:50
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 56:50
  Tina Strachan: We, Lindsay's a friend of The Book Deal podcast and we, yeah, uh, uh, we all agree, like it would have been so hard to write that book as well, but so incredible that she did, and it's so admiring and I, yeah, I admire anyone who can put that kind of heartbreak in, onto a page, but it's so helpful for everybody else as well.
• 57:11
  Tina Strachan: So then a great concept I've never s- I've never, uh, heard of a book sort of w- written from that, that point of view before, so yeah, she's done an incredible job.
• 57:20
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 57:22
  Tina Strachan: So agree.
• 57:23
  Tina Strachan: It is beautiful.
• 57:24
  Tina Strachan: I believe you have one more for us.
• 57:25
  Tina Strachan: I do, and i- in the interest of segueing, it's also about moms and being a mom.
• 57:32
  Tina Strachan: And it's end, so it's c- it's actually called, it's a picture book and it's called My Mum Is a Bird, by Angie Cui, and, illustrated by Evie Barrow, and, I have to say, like, so we have lots of picture books in our house'cause I've got two kids.
• 57:45
  Tina Strachan: My eldest, my youngest I should say, is eight and he's still a fan of, picture books.
• 57:49
  Tina Strachan: He just loves them and he's always pulling this one out.
• 57:53
  Tina Strachan: I don't know if he gets the concept, like I do, but I was actually having, lunch with the Debut Crew, and Angie was part of Debut Crew.
• 57:59
  Tina Strachan: And she had just got her book, and she passed it around, and I was sitting in the restaurant just, you know, um, reading it and almost crying.
• 58:09
  Tina Strachan: I didn't...
• 58:10
  Tina Strachan: And it took me so by surprise because, the cover's gorgeous and beautiful and colorful, and it's called My Mum Is a Bird, and you just think it's gonna be this quirky sort of fun, like, little book about your mum being a bird.
• 58:21
  Tina Strachan: Um, and it is, but the message behind it is just so beautiful.
• 58:27
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, I can't describe it.
• 58:29
  Tina Strachan: Y- you have to read it.
• 58:30
  Tina Strachan: I think it's really great for anyone, parents and children alike, and even if you're not a parent or a child.
• 58:35
  Tina Strachan: Um, you know, it's about a, it's about a young girl whose mum is a bird, which embarrasses her quite a bit, so it's such an interesting take from Angie on describing it that way.
• 58:47
  Tina Strachan: But then, towards the end when all the kids,'cause all the kids are a little bit like,"Your mum's a bird," and, it's at lunchtime and everyone's outside, and her mum, like, perches in a tree'cause she's a bird, and everyone's like,"I'm not sitting under the tree,"'cause, you know, don't wanna get pooped on.
• 59:00
  Tina Strachan: And then this big spider comes down, and then all the kids are screaming, and all the parents are like,"Ah," like, running away.
• 59:05
  Tina Strachan: But of course, her mum is a bird, so she comes down, she gets that spider, and she gobbles it up, and then she jumps on her mum's back, and they fly away.
• 59:11
  Tina Strachan: And it was just, it was just really beautiful, and I think it just got me because it was like You know, mum, sometimes we're all a bit, little bit weird and a little bit different as a mum, and, um, the last thing you wanna do is embarrass your child.
• 59:23
  Tina Strachan: Just those, kind of feelings of acceptance and, you know what, my mom's pretty cool anyway.
• 59:27
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, it's really beautiful.
• 59:29
  Tina Strachan: I hope I did it justice in describing it then, but yeah, uh- You certainly- Angie Cui's book, My Mum is a Bird's awesome.
• 59:35
  Nick Wasiliev: You certainly did.
• 59:36
  Nick Wasiliev: Oh, God, I love picture books.
• 59:39
  Nick Wasiliev: They're so, like, it's so b- such simple storytelling, but also, like- Mm y- there's so much beautiful nuance to that.
• 59:47
  Nick Wasiliev: God, I wanna-
• 59:47
  Tina Strachan: Yeah
• 59:48
  Nick Wasiliev: do picture books on my podcast.
• 59:49
  Tina Strachan: I know.
• 59:50
  Tina Strachan: You can just...
• 59:50
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, do it.
• 59:51
  Tina Strachan: Get Angie on, she's great.
• 59:52
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, I know, that's the thing with picture books.
• 59:54
  Tina Strachan: Hey, is they sound s- like you said, simple storytelling and, and I understand, like, when it comes to the amount of words, like these, these books, they, they're trying to get them down to less pages and, you know, 400 words sometimes, but like between 400 and 600.
• 1:00:06
  Tina Strachan: And to communicate such deep topics and emotion and just to get that story across in such little words, um, yeah, it's incredible how picture book writers are a whole another level.
• 1:00:21
  Nick Wasiliev: They really are when it comes to being- Yeah just a s- so the, so many authors who've got into the joy of r- of reading through picture books.
• 1:00:31
  Nick Wasiliev: You're dealing with- Yeah and, and there is a tough p- line that the privilege of actually writing for children.
• 1:00:38
  Nick Wasiliev: They will do, they do not lie.
• 1:00:39
  Nick Wasiliev: If you've wr- No, they don't say they like- Yeah they do not like the book, they will tell you straight to th- to th- to your face.
• 1:00:44
  Nick Wasiliev: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:44
  Nick Wasiliev: And so to create something that's genuinely beautiful is hard.
• 1:00:47
  Nick Wasiliev: So-
• 1:00:48
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah, don't think less words is easier.
• 1:00:50
  Tina Strachan: You try and tell a whole story in 400 words, and it's very hard.
• 1:00:54
  Nick Wasiliev: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:00:56
  Tina Strachan: thank you Nick so much for coming on The Book Deal podcast and for this fun collaboration where we've had a date with A Date with a Debut podcast.
• 1:01:03
  Tina Strachan: It's been so fun, but we have to cut it off because we can't stop talking about stuff.
• 1:01:08
  Tina Strachan: So for anybody who's listening who has not tuned into the Date with a Debut, please go ahead and do that.
• 1:01:13
  Tina Strachan: So many amazing debut authors to, discover, and so many great tips of course, from those authors.
• 1:01:19
  Tina Strachan: Also remember Nick has promised that he will finish his first draft by the end of this year, so please hold him accountable, and check in with him.
• 1:01:25
  Tina Strachan: You got me on record.
• 1:01:26
  Tina Strachan: Uh-huh.
• 1:01:27
  Tina Strachan: Uh-huh.
• 1:01:28
  Tina Strachan: And we're so looking forward to seeing that book come to life now that we've heard about how amazing it is.
• 1:01:34
  Tina Strachan: So, uh, Nick, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 1:01:37
  Nick Wasiliev: It has been a pleasure.
• 1:01:38
  Nick Wasiliev: I appreciate you putting me on notice, that means I've gotta finish this book.
• 1:01:41
  Nick Wasiliev: Um- Mm-hmm and yeah, I'm a big fan of The Book Deal, been a hu- really, really enjoy it.
• 1:01:46
  Nick Wasiliev: And, uh, thank you so much, it's been a joy chatting with you today.
• 1:01:49
  Tina Strachan: Thanks Nick
• 1:01:52
  Thank you for listening to another episode of The Book Deal Podcast.
• 1:01:56
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