Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Loni Kai Okaruru: Washington County's Unsolved Hate Crime

Transcript

Loni Kai Okaruru: Washington County's Unsolved Hate Crime · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about Lonnie Kai, who was
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: born Lorenzo Okaruru. She was born biologically male, but knew
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: from a very young age that she was not a boy.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: On August twenty six of two thousand and one, when
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: her untimely and brutal passing occurred, her legal name was
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: still technically her dead name. I do think the same
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: can probably be said for a lot of victims of
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: violence in this particular corner of the Alphabet mafia. That
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: just kind of breaks my heart a little bit, knowing
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: how the rest.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Of this story goes. Hi Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Also Hi to me, Hi, Hi, Kate Wallinga. Yes, oh
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: nailed Christal.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: We have Kate Wilinga joining us today from Ignorance was Bliss.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: That's me. Hello, that's yay. Thank you for letting me
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: come play.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming to play. We're very very excited to
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: have you. I would love it if you'll tell people
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit about your show and a little bit
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: about your incredibly interesting background.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Sure, I'm a forensic psychologist by trade, and so you know,
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: have hung out with serial killers knowingly and on purpose.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: That was the thing that has happened, and forensic psychology
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: is not as fun or sexy in the moment is
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: people think it is because it's a lot of waiting.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of like if you've ever done jury
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: duty or anything to do with the court system, you
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: understand that it's hurry up and wait. And I did
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: a lot of that, and it's a lot of writing
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: and it's a lot of whatever. But it's also talking
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: to people. And I loved it. It was it was
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: where my heart was. And then in twenty four and
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: I broke my back. Terrible idea, don't do that, not RNDO,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: no zero zero stars. Absolutely, And so I spent how
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: about four years moping like I'm like, when I set
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: my mind to something, I do it. You know what
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I'm saying. And so I decided I was going to
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: feel sorry for myself and I did it in all
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: caps for four years. And I have four children and
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: my I have been married for a thousand years, and
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: my father moved in with us, and I reached a
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: point where I was like, I don't have a life
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: of my own anymore. Like as soon as you know,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: it's daylight, as soon as somebody crossed it's the threshold
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: of my bedroom door. I'm fair game for people. And
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: so on New Year's Day of twenty eighteen, I went
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: up to my husband and depending on who is telling
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: the story, I either gently tapped him on the shoulder
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: or right the shirt color and full of them in
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: real close and said I'm going to start a podcast,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: and being a smart man, his answer was okay, yes, dear,
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: do you need anything for me? And I'm like, I
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: need you to leave me alone, because I just I
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: needed a hobby that made me feel relevant and smart
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: and competence again, and also forced them to not talk
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: to me yes for a while, Like that was really important,
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: and so I initially it was going to be a
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: like true crime adjacent deal. I was going to explain
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: to people what forensic psychology was and what it wasn't.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I figured twenty episodes and i'd be done. I have
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: recently released I think it was episode four hundred and
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: fifty eight.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: Wow, could a little while.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: It's been five it's five years now, a million downloads,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: so it seems like it's doing pretty well, you know.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: And after about maybe six months or a year, I decided,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: for various reasons that I didn't only want to do
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: true crime.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Sure, that's fair.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Both because I sort of surprising. The first, the first
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: crossover I ever did with Somebody was not planned. I
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: was literally sitting on my couch texting with somebody and
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: she was like, why don't we got record right now?
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I love that, Okay, and I the first couple of
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: my episodes are very scripted, narrative and crimey and focused,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: and that's not me, Like, none of that is me.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: I'm not very focused or narrative or controlled. And after
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: each of those first early episodes, I was tired when
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: I was done, And after this first collaboration, I was
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: pumped up. I was like, this is fun. And so
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: I started talking to other true crime creators and then
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: from there it branched out to you know what, I
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: don't want to only do crime. I want to talk
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: to other podcasters I admire, which then became authors and
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: actors and kind of anybody. Like I tell people I
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: have a pod slut like Ultimate, and I.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: Wanted to talk to all different kinds of people, and.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: So I walk in with it every time, like I
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: don't know what we're going to talk about, because I
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: just I feel like if I can help somebody understand
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: what it is like to be a podcaster or a parent,
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: or to have anxiety or like one guy that's been
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: on my show more than once is calling me from
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: a contraband cell phone in a maximum security prison in Mississippi,
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: and he talks about the murder he committed, and he
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: talks about what he's doing behind bars now. And I
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: feel like, if I can make any of that understandable,
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: it's not that much bigger of elite for you to
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: understand how violent crimes or serial murder happens. And so
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: there are times that I forget that, Like, right, normal
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: people don't know about this stuff. So right, my job
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: is to make normal people think. I love that, especially
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: if I can make them a little bit uncomfortable at
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: the time.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, bring it.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: On, Yeah absolutely, I mean that's a little bit, I mean,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: on a very different I would say scale maybe is
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: a good way to describe it.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a little bit of what we do,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: at least with each other.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Make each other uncomfortable.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Because when we started our show, I wanted to cover
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: true crime, and for Cassie it was absolutely non negotiable
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: that she wouldn't cover true crime, and she would absolutely
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: cover the paranormal, and we basically cover each other's no
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: no topics.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very good. Well, we're very excited to have you
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: with us today. And Cassie's probably going to be really
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: mad at me, but I'd like to think that I
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: came through with a case that is a little bit.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Unique, and unfortunately for her it is quite dark.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: It's fine, I'm here.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: You didn't need to sleep tonight, right like that wasn't
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: a thing? Okay, no, no.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Over rated, all right, I'm just going to get into
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: it like I'm as ready as i'll ever be.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: I know it's not going to get any easier. I'm sorry.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about Lonnie Kai, who was
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: born Lorenzo Okaruru on the Mariana Islands. She was born
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: biologically male, but knew from a very young age that
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: she was not a boy. On August twenty sixth of
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one, when her untimely and brutal passing occurred,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: her legal name was still technically her dead name. Sadly,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: I do think the same can probably be said for
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of victims of violence in this particular corner
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: of the Alphabet mafia. It's a marginalized community, and I
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: think a lot of times some of those things are
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: maybe not as formal, and that just kind of breaks
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: my heart a little bit knowing how the rest of
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: this story goes. I know, but let's talk a little
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: bit more about Lonnie's background before we get into this
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: too deeply. And I break Cassie's heart because she seemed
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: to be a remarkable individual by the assessment of basically
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: everyone around her. As I mentioned, Lonnie was born on
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: an island. Specifically, she was born on Saipan, which is
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: part of the Northern Mariana Islands, and that's a commonwealth
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: of the United States. I was like, I need to
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: know a little bit more about this. I don't really
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: know anything about the Marianna Islands, So I.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Was gonna say, I don't even know where they're at.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know the trench right like that.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, So it's in the Western Pacific Ocean according
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to Britannica. So thank you for being such a good source.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think digging in as much as possible
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: to the background of someone like Lonnie really helps to
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: inform us of her struggles and it gives her memory
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: greater depth. All that being said, while living in Saipan,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Lonnie embraced her true identity in life. Those closest to
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: her and I found this a little bit surprising, but
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: in fact everyone around her were quite accepting. Greg Miles,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: who was her uncle, was quoted by the souther Earn
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Poverty Law Center Intelligence report following her murder. He said
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: that there was an open mindedness towards gender identity surrounding
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Lonnie and her community that was actually quite common in
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: many of the South Pacific islands.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And I was just like, I thank Christ, you know,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: like I love that fucking love that for you, Lonnie.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: And it's just it's just a thing, you know. It's
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: just a yeah, okay, they don't care. Yeah, you know,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: it's not not don't care in a so shut up way.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: It's a I don't care, go ahead and live your life, do.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: You Yes, yeah, exactly.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: It's very like free flowing and we just accept people
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: as they are, and it's like you're not doing any
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: harm to anyone, and we don't so we just don't
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: take issue with it. And I'm just like, wow, I wonder.
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: What that's like, weird concept.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm moving, are we She's like, well, I'm
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: going to follow you, So where are we going? Really,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: it seems that it is understood that some individuals are
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: born in the wrong body.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Again, just wild. Where do we got to go to
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: get some of that? Oh? The South Pacific.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: According to him, this never presented an issue for Lonnie's
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: family either. Greg said that many of the children in
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the extended family referred to Lonnie as Auntie, which really
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: warms my heart. I'm just like, it's so precious. And
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Auntie is like, definitely culturally, I mean, certainly not exclusive
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: to the South Pacific, but I mean that's a term
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: of endearment for a beloved relative, and you know, implies
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: a female gender identity.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And I just thought that was really sweet.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: That is sweet, and I mention it really just because
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I think that all too often people that find themselves
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: in Lonnie's shoes don't have such a tremendously supportive village
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: surrounding them. In nineteen ninety seven, Lonnie moved from the
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Mariana Islands to the mainland of the United States. She
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: spent time in Seattle and Pullman in Washington State before
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: moving on to Eugene, eventually settling into an area just
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: outside of Portland, Oregon, known as Aloa.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, just in his side.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: But whenever we hear people talking about Aloa, they're always
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: referring to it as Aloha. And I thought, you know,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I heard a couple of different news stories and like
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: even other podcasts where they were talking about, you know,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: the thoughts where she was living at the time, and
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you guys are talking about Lonnie.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to forgive you.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: But Aloha, I know, I mean it's spelled just like
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: a loha.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: I know it is locals, Yeah, exactly.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the town i'm I'm in Salem, Massachusetts,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: and the town next to us is spelled p e
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: A b O d y, right, and everybody pronounces it. Yeah,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: like Rocky and Bowl, mister Peabody, it's it's PbD bbd.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Oh that pew.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: The Pbdessex Museum is here, the kids go to PBDPBDS
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: right over the border. Like you can't, Like, I've lived
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: here long enough that I can't not say it that way.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: And so now when I hear Rocky and Bulwinkle, I'm like,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: what if they said is that you know, but nobody
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: looks it up. And so this is big in the
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: news at the moment because of the Ana Walsh case
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: and some of her effects. So not remains, but but
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: some of the the the items were retrieved from the
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: PbD transfer station. And I can tell right away when
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: when I hear a podcast or a newscast start talking
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: about it, and I'm like, oh, here it comes, and
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: here it comes here. All you have to do is
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: listen to a local newscast. First five seconds, go for it.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Give it a try.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: No, it's peabody. Okay, that's where it is.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: That's a tough one too, because like you look at
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: it and you're like, yeah, I can say that it's
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: a peabody.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I wasn't aware that that's how
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I mean. And now I'm like, I'm going to be
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: doing the same thing every time I hear any of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the updates and.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Peavity it's p pabty.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I figured somehow you live in Massachusetts.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: That was going to come up.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: And Cass might be really mad at me for this case,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: but she's not going to be mad at me for
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: long because she's going to be super excited to talk
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to you about your house in Salem, Massachusetts.
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: Yes, Oh is it home to indeed? Oh are you
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: coming back on the show? Are you talking about it today?
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: When are we doing this?
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: I'm excited both, you know.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: She's like, it's your show, so you tell me.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess we should let Caitlin finish first.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I guess so Aloa not Aloha. It's about ten miles
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: west of the city of Portland. This part of town
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: has actually been developing really rapidly in the last two
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: decades in particular. But I would say in you know,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the early two thousand's, two thousand and one specifically, you
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: can kind of think of this as sort of a
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: bedroom community, certainly less so these days than was back then.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Dating back to two thousand and one, I think it
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: was definitely considered a relatively safe and a pretty quiet
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: suburban area.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah you think, I think.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: So.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I haven't given you much more than just a looa,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: but you're going to be able to triangulate this real quick.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: She's so uncomfortable.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: Well, I just remember being like what middle school age then,
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: and we just walked around the town, like, you know,
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: there wasn't anything creepy that happened that I am aware
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: of anyway.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Well, there were definitely some things, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: there are definitely some things. But I mean it's the
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: type of area where a lot of times up until
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: probably we were about high school age, at a certain point,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: then you know, you start driving. But it was very
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: normal to just see kids walking like, you know, a
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: mile two miles to the nearest, you know, from one
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: campus to another, or walk into the grocery store. Everybody
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: hangs out in the deli department at fred Meer's.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I was never invited.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: You just got to show up. It's a bit of
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: a walk for you.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: It's a long walk. Yeah.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: But there in Aloa, Lonnie worked as an assembly and
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: quality control specialist for a short time, which sounds like
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: a job I could absolutely not do at all. Cassie
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: backed me up here.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: I just think of Elf when he's testing out the
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: jack in the box thing.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a pot as well be that. I don't know.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: That just sounds like a job I'm not equipped for.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Co Workers recalled that she was a mild mannered and
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: incredibly warm person. So if you are hoping that it
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: would be less heartbreaking because she was secretly a day
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I have bad news on that front. Martin, who was
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: her cousin's husband, said she was quite gifted at making
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: others laugh when they were feeling down. Now, Lonnie was
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: temporarily unemployed in August of two thousand and one. She
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: lived in Hillsboro, actually a small section of neighborhood that
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: locals know as Readville, with some of her extended family
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: at the time along Southwest Cornelia's pass road. Everybody pause,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: and I realized that I'm the only one along with
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Kate that can see Cassie's face.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: But just we're going to pause for reaction.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: She's I mean, I know exactly where it's at.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, her discomfort is grown just for contact who lives
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: here is highly uncomfortable right now.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: On Saturday, August twenty fifth, Lonnie left home just before
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: midnight where a pair of designer and you guys legend
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: acid washed jeans, oh yeah, and a gray sweatshirt, white
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: sneakers with her fingernails painted green. All I know, hashtag goals.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: She was five nine and about one hundred and thirty pounds,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: which I am five foot and I don't think I could.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Say that today.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So weait is just a number, she said, yes, Yeah,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: her long hair was naturally dark but was tinted red
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: at the time. It actually was really pretty oh cute.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: The weather at this time of year is fairly warm,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: but can actually cool down fairly significantly in the evening hours,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: so it's not unusual for someone to be wearing shorts
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: or other summary attire during the day and then change
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: into jeans to go out for or a late dinner
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: or for a movie or whatever. So I don't know
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: what Lonnie had worn earlier in the day, but I
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: just felt like I wanted to add that for context,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: because at the end of August, in a lot of
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: places you would not be caught dead in like a
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: sweatshirt and jeans, So it's a lot cooler here if
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: you haven't visited. Yeah, on a weekend evening like this,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Lonnie usually frequented bars along southwest to Walleton Valley Highway
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: or TV Highway as it's known in the area.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: I was like, wait, I don't even know what that is.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: It's too long.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: To walatana.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: The GPS can never say it right either.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a tough one to and then if you
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: have to spell it out for somebody on customer service
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: like calls or something. It's unclear what her exact plans
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: were on this evening or precisely where she was the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: entire evening, but we do have some information about her
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: whereabouts on this of course, the evening in question, she
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: was spotted at the Golden Fountain Lounge on Southwest Canyon
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Road in Beaverton at one point, though reportedly she didn't
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: stay long. It's kind of unclear exactly how long she
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: was there, which is interesting because I do think we
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: have a pretty clear timeline of other little sections, little
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: chunks of her whereabouts for that evening. So struck me
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: as odd, but I'm not exactly sure why that is.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe she.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Just falls off CCTV footage and they lose her for
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: a little bit.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Hm, I know, I don't like it.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: She walked along TV Highway in the direction of Murray Boulevard,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: headed towards a seven to eleven near the intersection, which
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: I can actually picture this seven eleven.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: There's been a little road work done in that area,
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: so it might look a little different, but.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think in general, it's like I can
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: very clearly picture it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: And it's just really eerie.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: How much of this case I'm able to clearly visualize.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: It's inside that seven eleven. She is seen on surveillance
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: cameras having a conversation with another woman at two ten am,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: So at this point it's probably been about two hours
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: since she's left home. It's not a huge chunk of time,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: especially considering that's like not exactly a short walk from
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: down that end of Canyon Road all the way up.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Lonnie apparently visited this seven eleven often, so this wasn't
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: really unusual. It's just kind of more a part of
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the timeline. At approximately three point thirty am, near TV
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Highway and one hundred and forty First Avenue, she flagged
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: down two police officers that were driving by.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Normally, this might.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Be where you'd suspect that this is where things began
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: to go wrong.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I feel like a.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Lot of cases we've talked about that's kind of where
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: things go sideways. Yeah, we're certainly hearing about it in
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the news, but not so. She had, however, flagged them down,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: and it was simply to ask them for a ride.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, wait, so she flags down police officers
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: for a ride and somehow she still ends up not surviving.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: This is obviously the knight that she's killed. How does
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: that happen? Oh my goodness, did they give her a ride?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: They did not.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: I was gonna say, how why not?
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Well, I just won't. Cops won't.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I understand that that tends to be a
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: common practice. In this case, it's kind of a it's like, God,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: damn it, it's just a shit situation.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: The way I've had often, there's a lot of times
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: where people who end up victims of any sort of
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: crime have had interactions with cops. And if cops perhaps
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: focused on community support rather than perceived power and enforcement
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: and you know, keeping people alive rather than not, that'd
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: be pretty cool.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, in this particular case, there was just a literal
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: misunderstanding and the nature of it.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: And Cassie, you're going to be able to tell right
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: away because.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: The language barrier. Oh, there's some confusion there. And I'm
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: just I'm gonna all get through this next part and
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I'll you'll understand. I'm just like, this just kills me.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: It absolutely kills me.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: So.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Officer Brandon Herring had difficulty understanding some of the conversation.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Apparently because of Lonnie's accent, they believed that Lonnie wished
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: to be driven all the way to the nearby town
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: of Cornelius rather than literally just right down the road
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: on Cornelius Pass Road. So they thought, you know, okay, well,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: we're going to offer to call a cab, or we
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: can call a friend or a relative for you. They
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: just were not going to be able to take her
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the roughly ten miles northwest of where she had flagged
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: them down. It's a little bit longer, and it's outside
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: of the area that they should be patrolling.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, god, damn it.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, but realistically, like in most jurisdictions, yeah, police
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: won't give you a ride ten feet down the rudd.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: It's I mean, that is true, and there are.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Certain justifications for that, Yeah, which I.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: We have feelings about.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: I've had I've worked close I've worked in the criminal
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: lostices system. I've worked closely with cops, and I understand
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: that they are hampered by rules. Yeah, so maybe that's
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: changed the rules. But we're looking at twenty one years ago,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: so twenty three years ago almost, So okay, all right,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: we were things were things are real different, but I.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Would think, yeah, and Lonnie just didn't want to spend
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: money on a cab. And then, of course, you know,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: it's three thirty in the morning, and she doesn't want
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: them to call somebody and you know, wake them up
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: at that early morning hour. She's like, I don't want
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: to disturb anyone else at this time of the morning,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: which I mean, very sweet that she didn't want to
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: do that. But at the same time, I'm sure that
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: nearly anyone in her life would be happy to come
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: and pick her.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Up to make sure that she made it home safely.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: So that's one of those tough ones where you know,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you feel a little bit heartbroken for what could have been.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: I guess yeah, And I'm sure everyone that she knew
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: would agree that they would go pick her ups. She
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: sounded like she was very beloved.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if they had realized that she was referring to
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Cornelia's pass road, that was a very short drive from
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: where they stood, and I'm guessing that that night would
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: have ended very differently. It sounds like, specifically, just the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: length of the drive that they assumed she wanted them
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: to take her was kind of the deal breaker. I mean,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: for those of you that aren't locals. Right around this
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: stretch of road is where Hillsboro and Beaverton roughly meet.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Just a handful of years ago, I worked at a
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: business that was situated just a couple of blocks down
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: from this very corner, and Cornelius is a bit of
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: a track. I mean, it's a minimum of ten miles
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: and sadly, it's the last known location where Lonnie was
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: seen alive. It's like, I kind of it's a tough
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: one because I'm like, it's not that they necessarily did
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: anything wrong, but it's like they don't always have the
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: best tools to deal with this stuff. It's just like, fuck,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it sucks.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: It fucking sucks, and you know they probably feel fucking terrible.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: I hope so, frankly, honestly, yeah, that's not vitriol against cops.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: That's I hope that you had the humanity within you
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: to feel bad. Yeah, you know, you know I feel
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: bad when you know, if I learned sometimes that like
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: oh I just missed an accident, yeah, or exactly see
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: an accident happen or something, and I feel bad, like
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: I wish I could have I'm sort of geared to help,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: probably really at times but there's times where it's like
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: there's nothing I could do it on the other side
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: of the highway, or I learned that the accident happened
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: right after I went by, or whatever, where it's like, oh,
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: I wish I could have you know. And so it's
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: just that those it's those near misses that are the worst.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have chills right now.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: There's no way that either of you guys could have
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: known this. But we literally just had that experience last night.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Oh it was on the other side of the freeway
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: because we saw a police vehicle come up behind us,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: and holy shit, were they hauling ass. And the cop
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: finally got to a point where he stopped and he's
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: on the left hand side of the freeway and I
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: mean a very major freeway and he gets out and
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: he hopped the median and I couldn't really clearly see
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: what had happened on the other side, but I'm like, oh, man,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: it's like that you just feel for whoever, like he's
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: rushing to try to help.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, just had a feeling of dread after that.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: Well, you're so sensitive too, you probably picked up on
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: someone's energy while you're passing by.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Something for sure.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: Ye a sponge.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, I even feel bad when there is an
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: accident and it seems contained, and I feel guilty passing by, right,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I don't feel guilty about anything ever. Guilty is nothing
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: anybody I wish I could help into any But like so,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: I have driven out there. I've been in Hillsboro and
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: Beerton and in your is nearby. I don't I don't
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: have permission to use their name, but a close friend
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: of mine lives in Hillsboro, and so I've spent some
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: time there, and I don't know where we're I do,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: I think, I mean, and there's a there's a faux
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: restaurant that's amazing, that's right down that area, right, I don't.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: What type of restaurant. I didn't.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: It's called Folking.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really popular.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: It's really good. It should be. And so anyway, but
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: out here, you know, so, I mean, Route ninety comes
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: all the way out here as well, and so we
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: have the same kind of thing. And I feel bad
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: when the accident seems like it's contained, and you know,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: a backs up traffic for some some space, you know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: quarter mile whatever, and then there's this span where the
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: cars stopped by the accident are just stuck. Yeah, and
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: you get past the next exit and you see other
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: cars coming and they don't know. Oh, I know, And
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: I just wish I had some sort of like how
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: can I work or something like pull off? Now, go
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: use the bathroom, get a drink, for the love of God,
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: like you have a terrible time, just go around, you know,
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: but there's nothing you can do.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: So yeah, no, that's true. It's a kind of a
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: helpless feeling. It's awful. On Sunday, August twenty sixth, her
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: body was discovered in what was described as an overgrown
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: field by a teenage girl who was out jogging.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Oh no, this is why you don't jog.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of many reasons not to jog.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I would argue, I could produce a list, I mean
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: as long as I am tall, which she isn't saying much.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: But you know, there's a lot of reasons.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: But yeah, that's the poor kid.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, she was like sixteen years old. Who is
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: going out this early in the morning on a Sunday
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to jog a teenager keeping.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: Up track team.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I must have been. It's the only explanation Lonnie's body
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: was left there following the horrific attack that took her life.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: For context, this is about four miles south of Hillsboro
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: on a stretch of Southwest Farmington Road that remains to
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: this day actually fairly rural still almost a farmland type
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: area near Rudbridge Road.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Gotcha, that's like right by the high school too, right?
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: Or is it a little bit further away. No, it's
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: very close.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: It's I mean, for Hillsboro kids, it's basically walking distance
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: to the high school from there. Yeah, her body was
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: left hidden just beyond the tree line. Lonnie was beaten
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: really severely. Her cause of death was blunt force trauma
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: to the head and face, likely inflicted with a blunt
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: instrument of some kind. They suspect maybe a jack or
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: a tire iron, which is just horrific because it's kind
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: of a weapon of opportunity.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I would think.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: This was another topic that her uncle, Greg Miles, spoke
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: to the intelligence report about, stating that some of her
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: fingertips had been cut off what and that her face
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: had been virtually smashed and were.
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: They trying to like hide the identity or something?
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: You know, It's it seems like that might have.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Well, he definitely felt like it was a crime that
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: had definitely been committed in a rage, and there definitely
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: was sort of some speculation that the removal of some
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: of Lonnie's fingertips by her killer could have been either
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: an expression of rage, but also some suspected it may
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: have also been an effort to.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Thwart her identification.
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but if you just remove some of them, I
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: guess it doesn't really that doesn't really make sense. I
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: don't know.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Ugh, Yeah, I mean, I'm not really sure what to
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: make of that.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: Was there a sexual element to it?
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: There was not, and that was something.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: That's what I wonder is did they disc because there
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: could be a sexual element to crime without sex happening.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And in.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: Which case you may opt not to get involved with
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: the genitalia in any way, you know, the genital region,
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: the chest reasion, you may opt not to do that.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: But if it's rage, if it was I thought I
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: was picking a girl up, you know, and this isn't
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: a girl with that kind of attitude, And now what
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: do you attack to remove someone's identity? If you're going
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: to leave the gentally intact, you know, then maybe it
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: wasn't so much the finger prints as the fingernails.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: And you know, that's an interesting point because I thought,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: you know, with the painted nails, I mean, that doesn't
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: seem like much of a stretch, but it's it is
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: kind of odd because again it's not necessarily all of
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the fingertips.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: But to me, that kind of makes sense.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: You know, It's just it feels like, you know, removing
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: aspects of somebody's identity, including removing aspects of someone's femininity.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and ultimately, I think if nothing else, this really
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: comes down to a level of sort of devaluing someone
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and it's I mean, what I would think of as desecration, and.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's just it's heartbreaking. How old is she
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: twenty eight.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: So she's a little bit older than I am then
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: and because I was twenty four, I turned twenty four
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: in two thousand and one. And that's that's a that's
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: a time where we still used words like transvestite and
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: cross streussure, but it was no longer a pejorative, like
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: it wasn't name calling as much. So it was like
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: it was it was sort of on the scene, but
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: the idea of being fully transgender was not something that
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: was super common, and it was still diagnosed civilism mental illness.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Oh was it a So? I graduated with my doctorate
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: in two thousand and five and a classmate of mine
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: did her dissertation on gender identity disorder as it was
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: called then, Oh wow, And I mean, to her credit,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: it was about how, hey, let's not call this a disorder.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: She's like, we don't.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: She's like, maybe we could not. And it is no longer.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: You know, since then, the manual with which we diagnosed
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: people has been updated and that's been taken out. But
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: you know, it was pretty heavily pasthologized.
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: In Massachusetts, I worked in a locked state psychiatric hospital,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: which is sort of long term stay sort of things.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: And one of my patients whom I can't name, but
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: she was the first person in Massachusetts to my knowledge,
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: who had spent time incarcerated in both men in women's
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: facilities because she was interesting assigned mail at birth, and
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: so after the first crimes that she committed, she was
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: sort of automatically placed in a men's prison. And to
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: their credit, first of all, sexual assault is not as
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: common in prison as people think it is. But secondly,
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: to their credit, they did acknowledge her safety risks and
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: keep her in solitary. But the flip side to solitary,
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: is it solitary.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Right exactly? That takes on someone's mental health.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: It's so it's sort of a do you want to
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: go crazy or do you want to die? Like those
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: were sort of choices that you're given. There's is not
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: an entirely great set of choices. But so the second
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: time or a subsequent time, I can't say second time,
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: but a subsequent time that she was arrested, she was
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: placed in a women's facility, and that was considered at
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: the time. So this would have been three two thousand
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: and four, was before I graduated. I was doing an internship,
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: and at the time it was considered pretty progressive to
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: place it, like sit with me for a second, to
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: place a woman in a woman's prism right right, Yeah.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: But she also then ended up in the psychiatric hospital
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: because life had not been kind to her. You had
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: some legitimate mental illnesses, as you know, to do it. Yeah,
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: and then it was just a matter of like, so
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: the hospitals are mixed gender here and they try to
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: put usually it's two people pull room, same sex, but
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: they will try to put people in solo rooms if
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: there's any sort of risk of either're acting out or
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: being acted out of Han and so she had a
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: solo room.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: And I think that's I mean, it's a tough situation
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: because of course, you know a lot of those facilities.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you're nearing capacity or already ad or
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: over capacity some of those things, that it can be
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: so difficult to accommodate and make sure that that it
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: has to be I mean, it just has to be.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Oh back to the the fingers.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: The fingers, Okay.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but obviously it didn't pan out. If they were
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: trying to thwart identification, that was not going to work.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: But obviously it's just a very brutal act.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, regardless of why you're doing that, that is
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: just an act of brutality against another human that I
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: would hope that none of us can understand, I mean
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: in a million.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: Years, except maybe the psychologist.
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: Understand maybe has based on what we know Ye's different, right, sure,
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: well based on what me know that But that's part
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: of why I like I My job would often be
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: to sit down and ask somebody, like I've had conversations
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: that evolve things like, literally, why did you try and
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: remove the fingerstips like, and you have to ask those
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: questions with a fairly.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: Straight face, acts like I am not saying the words
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: that I am about to say, but I'm going to
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: ask you how many times did you hit it with
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: the tire iron like? And you have to you have
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: to sort of check your own morality at the door,
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: m And I'm going to enter you your world, and
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you questions and I'm going to
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: do my best to understand. And now the trick is
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: you you do your best to understand the person, but
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: then you pick your own morality back up as you
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: leave the room again, of course, get back into your
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: own head because I think it's I know it's possible.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: I've watched colleagues break because they they it starts to
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: make too much sense.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: To them, right, I mean, it's breaking down who they are.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: And that's that's the thing you have to sort of consciously.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: I'm going to check my logic and check my rationality
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: at the door, and I'm going to come in and
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: I'm going to enter your world. But then when let
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: me leave, your world stays here and I'm going home.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, goodbye forever, Well until tomorrow yeah or yeah, Oh.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: My goodness, what'd I say every time I leave here?
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: Goodbye forever.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Till next week? You know what I mean?
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: That side of things I think is so interesting and
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: really thinking about how you approach those things. And my
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: partner does interrogation as part of his career field, and
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I have learned a lot from him in that regard.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I know that I don't ever want to play poker
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: for money with either of you. Not a chance in hell,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: not a snowflakes chance in hell. I don't stand a chance.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: I'm just like way too transparent and I'm an oversharer.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: It's I can't help myself.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: This is one that I I'm curious what you make
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: of this. Oddly, it was said that Lonnie didn't have
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: broken fingernails, so it didn't seem like she had much
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: of an opportunity to put up a fight, So it's
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit unclear and without actually pulling up necessarily
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: like an autopsy report.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: And to be honest, I you know.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I as much as the details of it are so
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: interesting for many of us, you know that are interested
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: in true crime, and you know we care about these cases.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: For a menagerie of reasons.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I was like, I just don't know if I have
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: it in me to get into the nitty gritty of
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: like fingertip.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Can you quantify that for me?
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: But I'm curious from your perspective if somebody has.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Removed part of.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: The fingertip or the entirety of a fingertip, but not
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: on every finger.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: So let's god, this is terrible. That's for argument's sake.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: It's probably done postwartem would be my guess.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I would think so, you know.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: And that if somebody's coming at you with a tire
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: iron and it's funny that it's a tire, it's not funny.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Nothing's funny.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, huorious, it's not funny.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: Ha ha. So on December twenty sixth, twenty twenty two,
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: happens to be my husband's birthday, and which we don't
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: celebrate in December because the twenty six is a crappy
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: time to have a birthday frankly, but you know, still,
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: we had we had dinner, red cupcakes. That was great,
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: and I was about to head upstairs to go to
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: bed to the evening and I, by the way, I
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: am deaf mostly I hear about what twenty five percent
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: of what normal people hear. And so I'm just sort
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: of doing my hang and you know, good, I head
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: an upstairs and my husband stops and he's like, can
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: you hear that?
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, what do you think?
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: What are you saying? He's like, he said, then he said,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: I think someone just hit the house. Which you have
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: to understand that my house is it's away from the
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: street a little bit, but it's up on a little hill,
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: so nobody's going to hit the house with like, what
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: do you But I'm like, I don't know. But as
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: I said, like, I'm geared towards like getting involved and
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: stepping in, and so I just walked out on my
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: front porch and he's like, what are you doing? You know?
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: But I'm like, if you think something's going on, And
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: what's going on is across the street one over there's
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: a house that we had been referring to as the
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: meth House, which you know, Salem's not a super methy
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: place like in general, but this one house has had
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: a lot of turnover in the past year, and so
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: we've started referring to it as the meth house. Although
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: it turns out we were probably accurate. And so this
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: young gentleman is screaming. He's standing outside and he's screaming
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: at the occupants of the house, and he's holding.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: A tire iron. Oh my god.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, and I just I my question, which
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: often will de escalate things. One would hope, you know,
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: you don't do the hey, what's going on? That kind
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: of thing, because that can be kind of aggressive, and
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: stead I was like, hey, are you safe?
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: Are you safe? Do you know? Is there something that
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: I can help you with right now? Are you safe?
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: And and he did come down for a second. He
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: sort of lowered the weapon and he he started sort
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: of ranting to me about they have my they have
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: my stuff in the house, and and I was like, okay, okay,
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: I can't like, you can't go in my house. And
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: I don't like, are you but are you safe? Do
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: you need me to call anybody? That's what I can
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: do for you right now? Call anything? And he was
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: like no, I'll just get at myself. And he turns
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: around and he like bolts up their front steps with
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: the tire iron and breaks the plate glass window. Oh
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: my gosh, that was pretty much my reaction. And so
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: by by through the process of this. As soon as
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: he turns around and says, no, I'm gonna you know,
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna get at myself. I get on the phone
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: and I'm calling nine one one. So I'm the caller
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: on nine one one while he's breaking the glass.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: And so I can tell you that the tire iron
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: is suddenly a lot longer of an instrument. The thing
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: about it is that it's narrow and right, you know,
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: especially if you're sort of holding the hook end in
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: swinging with the other one. It'd be easy to hit
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: somebody and kill them. You know, you knock them out
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: before and they're not you know, it's done. It's not
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: like like like a physical assault or like a baseball
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: vat or something. You get your hands up and now
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: the fingernails can break.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: You know, a tireron, you can you can hit somebody
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: and kind of skip the hand part altogether, you know,
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: and just go directly to the you know, the tire iron.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: It's connected to the headbone. I think that's how the
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: song goes, right, like, that's that's how it goes. And
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: like the removal of fingertips or the removal of any
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: body part at all generally is not something that is
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: done on a living victim once in a great while.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Aile Sylvia li Likens is an example of a torture
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: case that that wish she lived for an extended amount
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: of time with various tortures to her body. But by
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: and large, that kind of disfigurement and and dehumanization happens
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: after the death. No, and and frankly I hope.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I think we all do.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: You know? And so because I look after I'm dead,
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: I don't care right like anymore, Like I I reserve
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: the right to haunt your dreams and if I have to,
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: But that you know, when once once you're beyond feeling,
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: of course, usually that's when that's when you know it's
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: a it's sort of a panicked, sloppy clean up kind
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: of my mindset to do those sorts of things.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I have a question. I don't know if you're
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: going to get into it. Did were the fingers tips
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: there or did they take them?
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: You know, that's another I'm not sure. It's unclear. It
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: does sound like she was killed in one place and
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: her body was discovered in another.
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: Right that would make sense, Okay.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: The thing that it's like and it's I'm I feel
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: like this is probably just to be able to convey
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: the question that I have about the fingertips, like in
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: light of the full picture of the forensic evidence at
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: least that without doing a FOIA request of some sort
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: that you know I have. It's almost like the way
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I would have to word it, it's like it's too
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: graphic and I don't want to sensationalize in that way
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: with this case. But I'm very curious about in the
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: instance where they've removed maybe some of the fingertips, and.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: It's so hard not knowing exactly like how much of
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: the fingertip did they actually like you were saying, you know,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: they cut off the entire finger, you know, up to
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: kind of that first knuckle basically, and they've taken the nails.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: What is the what is the what's the purpose otherwise?
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's not thwarting the identification unless you
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: take all of them. So I mean, is that just
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: about mutilation?
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Like I mean, it could be as simple as oh shit,
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: this is harder than I thought it was going to be.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Way like that happens a lot where people do they
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: commit a crime, they think I'm going to obliterate this
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: person's identity and get away, and this usually that's an
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: indication that there's a connection between victim and perpetrator, because
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: otherwise why do you care? Right right? Like, I don't
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: care if I've killed a stranger. I don't care if
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: you figure out who they are, because there's no connection
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: between us. But if I kill somebody, I know I've
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: got you know, on a Walsh case, right like, there's
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: motivation to try and obscure the identity and the location
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: because there's a clear connection between on A Walls and
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: Bryan Walsh as a parallel, and so that that would
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: make me wonder, like, why do you need to remove
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: this person's identity? Are they a stand in for somebody
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: in your life? That's a possibility, and now you're mad
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: at them for not actually being that stand in or
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: do you know them? And you're trying to make sure
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: that you have time to get away. And the thing
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: about that is that sometimes people in the process of
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: trying to hide their crime trying to like, look, I
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: don't want to say this in a positive way, but
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know how else to say it is that
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: dismemberment is work.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, but it is, though, do you know, like
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: it's work and it takes time.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: And if you're saying that she was last seen alive
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: at three point thirty approximately in the morning, yeah, then
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: was found at six am around that time, that's not
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: a ton of time. You know. It takes time to
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: pick someone up, It takes time to beat them to death,
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: it takes time to try and obscure their identity, then
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: it takes time to move the body, and you know,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: sun is starting to come up, You're starting to really
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: panic because you definitely don't want to be seen in daylight.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: You don want your car to be seen, and so
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: you quit.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: And that makes a lot of sense for me.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: It's just been really bothersome because it's like this feels
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: very incomplete, and I think maybe that's a particularly for
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: someone who's I mean, I'm very interested in this, but
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: I'm obviously not an expert, and just coming from a
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: layman's perspective, you know, you do kind of think like, well,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: they're going to do it this way or they're going
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: to do that, and it's like, well, they probably thought
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: they were going to do it this way or you
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: know whatever, but the reality of it, and so I mean,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: it's just an interesting thing to keep in mind that
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: It's like the reality of the situation is that it
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: takes time.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, thank god it does, thank God for real.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: And I mean, and this is I am unabashedly against
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: gun ownership because guns don't take time.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Right, you can do you can wreak.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: Incredible havoc really fast with that and other methods. You
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: can kill people with all kinds of things, but they
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: take longer. Another thing that I was just thinking of
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: is if if she was transported from one place to another,
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: I would need to know, like were the fingertips cut
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: cleanly or where they may be broken off by slamming
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: them in the trunk.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: And that's a great question.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of those things where it almost
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: am like.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: I again, hope that, honestly hope that because the more
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: extreme the behavior, whether the victim is still alive or
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: post mortem, the more extreme the behavior. Is this just
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: removing body parts implies a really disordered mind. And right,
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: that's scary.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: It is scary, Oh god, man.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, we graduated in two thousand and seven from
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: a high school that. I mean, for all intents and purposes,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: it's not actual walking distance from this spot. But I remember,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: I mean really vaguely, but I remember hearing about this case.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: So did they ever find the perpetrator?
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: It's not sounding good?
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: No, No, I wish.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of those cases because especially, like
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: you say, some of these details really inform us as
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: far as like, Wow, this is someone that we should
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: be extremely fearful of, Like as a community, we should
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: be very invested in finding this perpetrator. That's horrifying. Still,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: there was little evidence available at the scene. What that
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: told investigators at the time was that she had been
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: murdered elsewhere and her body was only disposed of afterward
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: where it had been found. Her time of death was
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: estimated to be somewhere between the hours of three point
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: thirty and five am. This window leaves just about a
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: ninety minute period after she interacted with the police officers
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: on TV Highway, during which she was brutally attacked and murdered.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Her body was moved, I mean, all of the things
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: that you mentioned. It's the location where her body was
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: found was approximately nine miles away from where the police
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: had encountered her. This also gave them another very important
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle, because there there was literally no
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: way that she could have traveled that far on foot
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: in that time.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: She just couldn't.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, maybe an Olympic sprinter, I dot it. No, Well,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: she wasn't headed that direction, was she. No, that wasn't
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: her goal to get over in that area.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: No, I mean this is all like such a if
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: you think about it, like a small circle of geographic locations.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: But no, I mean it's not really. It's certainly way
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: overshooting where she lived at the time. Sexual assault and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: robbery were both ruled unlikely motives fairly early on. The
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: medical examiner did not produce any findings indicating that there
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: were signs of recent sexual activity. There was also still
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: cash on her person when the body was discovered. Sadly,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: this final fatal act was not the only instance in
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: which Lonnie had encountered violence or bigotry. She had actually
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: endured two other assaults since moving to the Portland area,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: neither of which were reported to law enforcement. Her family
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: stated that she just honestly didn't believe anything would or
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: could be done. Washington County Sheriff's detective Mike O'Connell has
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: long speculated that her gender identity may have played a
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: role in her death, as it had with another previous
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: to put it extremely mildly, a bad date encounter, she
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: had been forced out of her dates vehicle after he
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: realized her biological or anatomical gender. This is literally exactly
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: what you mentioned, this exact example, Kate, And in any case,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: official statements released by law enforcement authorities indicate that they
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: believe this to be the case, that she was specifically
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: targeted because of her gender identity. So kind of makes
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: me lean towards that the fingers were you know, like
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: you said, more than likely post mortem, but that they
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: were taken intentionally.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: I don't have a lot to go on in a case.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Where there's not an instance of sexual assault, and like,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know what else they would be basing that on,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: but seems reasonable.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: I think were they just basing it off of her
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: past encounters? I mean in that I suppose could be,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: or maybe they know something else that well I didn't
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: get put out. Yeah, of course we know that in
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: so many cases that happens, they have to hold certain
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: details back because only one person's going to know those details,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: but because obviously this was all probably starting to appear
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: that it might shape up nice.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: And neat somehow, now I have bad news. So Lonnie's
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: case would sadly take a backseat to other world news
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: as world events rapidly change the landscape not only for Americans,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: but in some sense kind of for people all over
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: the world. A public rally to raise awareness of the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: crime committed by Lonnie's killer was scheduled to take place
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: a few weeks following her murder. The notice was published
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: in the Am edition of newspapers on Tuesday, September eleventh
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: of two thousand and one.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: Sit Yeah.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Her memorial service was held in October, before the crime
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: would end up fading into relative obscurity. Basic Rights Oregon
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: and other LGBTQ organizations have made efforts to keep Lonnie's
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: story alive in the hopes that the pursuit of justice
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: would not prove fruitless. Roe Thorpe, the executive director of
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Basic Rights Oregon, said in two thousand and two that
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: prejudice against the trans population dehumanizes. In two thousand and three,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Basic Rights Oregon introduced SB one thousand to the Oregon
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: State Senate hoping to add gender identity under hate crime laws,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: specifically citing Lonnie's case, with the further hope of possibly
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: getting the case additional coverage and or funding through local
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: police or I mean, how maybe if they could swing
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: it even the FBI. The bill was killed in committee
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: by Karen Menis Manass. I know you're shocked. She's a Republican,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: just you know, the party that callously disregards and blatantly
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: victimizes minorities.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: It's fine. In two thousand and.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Five, she would also oppose civil unions for same sex
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: couples because it's not enough to allow them to be
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: beaten or murdered, but they shouldn't be allowed to have
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: the same privileges as the rest of Oregon's god fearing couples. Ultimately,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: s B one thousand would be passed, but it would
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: be missing critical protections that were considered critical can I
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: say again critical to the bill. Although some hailed it
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: as a success, this failure seemed to mean that Lonnie's case,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: and potentially countless others like it, would remain labeled as
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: bias based crime.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: Really, I had no idea that that wouldn't be a
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: hate crime.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Wow, so it could not technically be labeled a hate crime,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: which meant that far fewer people would ever even hear
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: about the case. It's a confusing topic that I've kind
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: of done my best to give you, guys, like the
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: bullet points, because it's a lot of it's a lot
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: of back and forth in the legislature and different aspects
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: of our government that I have a very cursory understanding of.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I have a podcast and a master's degree,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: and I feel stupid. Since then Governor Kate Brown are
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: currently exiting. Governor signed House Bill thirty forty one, which
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: clarified existing anti discrimination protection by adding gender identity to
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: all Oregon laws that use sexual orientation in the text
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: of the law, which they are sometimes different things, guys.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: This legislation expanded on the work of the Attorney General's
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Hate Crimes Task Force via Senate Bill five seven seven,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: which created a protected class for gender identity and Oregon
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: in does anyone want to guess what year? Twenty twenty two,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, not a lot better?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: Wow, that took a while.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, took a minute.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: But of course, bigotry in nearly any form hasn't really
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: gone anywhere. Detective O'Connell received a call back in two
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine questioning why he was wasting so much
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: time on this case, and he was disgusted. And though
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: members of the Washington County Sheriff's Department made statements to
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: the press over the next several years, law enforcement was
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: unable to develop any new leads, and without much evidence
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: to go on, it hasn't been easy. As I wrote
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: my notes, I'm stunned to learn that Lnnie was believed
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: to be the first fatality victim of a hate crime
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: in Washington County. Her case is included in the playing
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: cards distributed to local jails or prisons, and she is
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: the five of Hearts. Another thing worth noting is that
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: I have not been able to verify whether there is
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: still a four thousand dollars reward for information leading to
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: the arrest of her killer. But if you have information,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: please reach out to law enforcement. Obviously we'll include that
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: in the show notes. Keep that in mind as I
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: share this next part of the case. I actually reached
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: out to a media representative for Washington County for the
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department, as well as crime stoppers who had previously
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: offered reward money, and neither of them were able to
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: get back to me as far as whether or not
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: there's still a reward. In two thousand and two, investigators
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: revealed that two men had been seen near the crime
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: scene near Farmington Road. They'd been driving a small to
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: mid size suv. A man driving east on Farmington Road
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: past the vehicle as it was backing up the dirt
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: road that Lonnie was found on. One of the men
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: was in the vehicle and one was weaving animatedly in
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: the glare of.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: The headlights of the vehicle.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: These two individuals are believed to have been disposing of
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: Lonnie's body. An informant offered a tip to law enforcement
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: and exchanged in exchange for a reduced sentence. This led
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: them to a vehicle they believed to be used to
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: dispose of Lannie's body. However, this turned out to be
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: a dead end. And that's literally it, that is all.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: She wrote.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: Wow, well that's disappointing.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Oh god, Okay, I hate it when I make myself
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: feel things. I'm a fucking monster. It's just the the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: part about like having somebody call the detective it's working
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: on a cold case and say like why are you
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: wasting type?
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: I know that's gross, Like why would you go out
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: of your way to even say that?
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: Like Jesus Christ, don't you have to buy grocery? Reason ship?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Like where are you finding the time?
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Like do you think it was possibly the murderer? I mean,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: who knows. I don't know. I think sometimes people want attention.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: And whether it's because they actually commit that crime or
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: they're just fucking hot garbage sauce trash people, I don't know.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: But oh god, it makes me really said, I don't
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: always cry when we record.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: This isn't actually coming.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: Back, so it's fun.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: She doesn't know any better.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: I know, it's fun.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's like one out of one times that
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: I recorded with them, she was crying.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: So make sure it happened again. It's good.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Oh good, I've just had a precedent. Okay.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, so, I mean there's this is a really tough
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: one to transition. But we usually do our little tarot
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: reading and sometimes sometimes we get like a message that
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: is a little bit hopeful about you know, a case
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: like this it's unsolved or.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: We'll see I'll tell you what we got.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, are you ready for the tarot. All right,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: so we just want a little deeper insight into Lonnie's story.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Do you want to cut the cards or do you
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: want me to do it? You're like, what are you?
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: What do you feel like? I think she feels like
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: she wants to do it.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll do it.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: You're just so like connected.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: I feel like we got that card like three times already.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: What is happening?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the King of Pentacles in reverse.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Holy shit, this is actually I didn't think this was
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: going to work.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: I didn't think it made sense.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: It works. Every time you think it's not gonna work.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: The universe knows what's up.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: Holy fucking shit. Okay, all right, so can you see it?
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: Yes, kind of yes.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: So we drew the King of Pentacles and this deck
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: is actually specifically one that I was gifted this Christmas.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: It's the Pacific Northwest tarot deck.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: So it's all perfect.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like native plans and animals and okay, so
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: our keywords are security, material, success, pragmatism, stability, strength, and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: worldly power. And I think this makes a lot of
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: sense when we talk about the description of the card.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: Just wait for it. Okay.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: In many decks This king sits on a throne and
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: wears rich garments and a crown. Sometimes he appears with
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: a bull h symbol of strength, virility, and tenacity.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking like.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Bowl like strength, virility. Let's just that it's too weird.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: In a reading, he may represent an actual person, in
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: which case he's usually a mature man who exercises worldly
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: power and authority. We do it in the reverse. The
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: King of Pentacles in reverse indicates sluggishness, delays, and or
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: obstacles to material success. Sometimes it shows low energy or insecurity.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: You feel stuck, but you don't have the drive to
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: get you out of your rut. If the card represents
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: an actual person, he may be mercenary, course, dull, witted,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: or even corrupt.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: Huh sounds kind of like the person who might have
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: done it or the system. Yeah, that too, It could
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: be a lot of dull things.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean mercenary, jesus, I mean that's a what
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: does that mean?
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: That's dark wanting stuff?
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, and I think of mercenary as.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Like a mercenary in like the militant sense too.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, will need to hurt you for stuff.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't like that and course, my god.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, which would fit well with the concept of
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: someone willing to assault based on perceived at endy, Yeah,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: you're not who I thought you were in a literal
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: biological sense, and so I'm going to be eating death
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: with a tire iron that's pretty coarse, you know. Opting
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: not to take the cash kind of all that says
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: to me is that the cash may have been blood stained.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a really valid point.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: And so you don't want to want to back into
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: the seven to eleven, right and have them be like, hey, dude,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: I can't help but notice that you're paying with money
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: that's actively bloody. Sup with that? So you know, beatings
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: like usually if you're if you're going to rob somebody.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: You do that first, right, that's.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: And then you you beat them, so it doesn't sound
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: like robbery was the motive, and then they're not going
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: to take the money afterwards because it probably wasn't in
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: the best condition.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: That's contaminated.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I hate all of that. What happens helpful
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 4: message that you were well.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: But that's what say the car does kind of reflect. Yeah,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: I think more the reverse side, you know, the reverse
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: side more sort of toward. What kind of mindset do
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: you need to do something like this is you need
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: to be pretty coarse and dehumanizing and you know, mercenary,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: maybe not wanting the cash, but wanting something and willing
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: to hurt to get it. That's not that's not far
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: out of the league from what you've been talking about.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that I mean, that was so well put.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: I honestly have.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 4: Today perfect.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah it was entirely not perfect, but it was.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, imperfection is perfect. Yeah. All right, Well, thanks for
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 4: coming on.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: It was so fun.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: I can wait for you to come back.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 5: So, for all of you that are listening, if you
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 5: have any true crime or paranormal stories that you want
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 5: us to share, maybe with the whole Pacific Northwest.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: Yes, we would love to read them on the pod.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: Yes we will read them out.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: Loud, not just in our heads.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 5: Yes, they don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 5: If you would like to share, email us at PNW
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 5: hauntsand Homicides at gmail dot com. It's all spelled out,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 5: no special characters, super duper EASYPC.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: Follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Same thing as the
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: email at P ANDW. Hanson homicides all spelled out, no
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: special characters. Please also rate and review us on whatever
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: platform you're listening to, and check out our stories on
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: social media because our mein game is hot. Agreed and
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: if you agree like Caitlin, you can also find us
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 4: on Patreon and support the show bitchin.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: I had surgery yesterday, which I get it stupid that
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: I'm sitting at my desk now, but it's not like
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: it's a high maintenance kind of like I'm just sitting here.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: Might as well do something fun instead of moping, which
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: I did all day, you know, like like you said
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: good at them, and so yesterday I'm literally sitting in
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: the waiting room at the at the hospital. I'm already
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: they've already given like they literally hand out atavan and
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: she walk in the door.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: Where is this?
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this is a great idea, Like you just
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: double fish in them, you know. So, and apparently a
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: thing that I do when I have adavanas I invite
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: people on my show. So it's like sitting in the way,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: I'm a little bit stone inviting people on my podcast.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: And I was like, technology is wonderful. Nature is returning
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: to the normal.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: You know, did anyone say yes, absolutely, go Oh my goodness. Okay,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: well stay tuned for that because we are gonna have
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: some really interesting guests coming up on your.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: Show for me as well.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: Really no kidding.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Hey, listen, sometimes good things come out of a weird
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: medical trip.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 4: Apparently, no one give any of that to Caitlin. She's
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: done enough.