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The Fund Selling Climate to Skeptics · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You are now listening
• 0:01
  Speaker 0: to the EU Startups podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this episode of The EU Startup Podcast, as always I'm your host Dave Senangarcia with the news editor here at EU startups.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Perhaps i should call it a heat wave episode because my god is hot in Spain.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Tim, who's our episodes?
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: interviewee was joining from Germany and he echoed similar thoughts.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: so i think it safe to say heatwave has gripped the entire continent.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: He and I chatted about his experience in climate tech and sustainability focus investing.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: that is done through world fund as a gp his work through sass group in acquiring companies and the challenges end process of acquiring company differences between scaling.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and building.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: We're also able to chat of his work through Ecosia, which some of you might know as the search engine that plants trees through its ad revenue.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: so it's really interesting conversation.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: we covered the entire process in life cycle of acquiring companies which I'm sure many of you know.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: And then we were also able to chat about climate tech, the way it's shaping up within Europe and in the whole world.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, well
• 1:40
  Speaker 0: I'm
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: looking forward to this episode.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Obviously in preparation for it...I did my research as I do with all the guests and the word or the words serial entrepreneur kept flashing at me on big red letters while looking over.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: you have such a varied history of not just entrepreneurship investing in so many different things.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: but before we get into that i'd like
• 2:11
  Speaker 0: Yeah, sure.
• 2:12
  Speaker 0: My name is Tim Schumacher.
• 2:14
  Speaker 0: I'm a German entrepreneur and investor.
• 2:17
  Speaker 0: uh i've basically been an entrepreneur for the last twenty five years.
• 2:23
  Speaker 0: started my first business actually did like some small business before in university we build websites at time when you know if you were still paid for building websites And there was no AI everything.
• 2:36
  Speaker 0: um.
• 2:37
  Speaker 0: Then I started CEDO right out of University and ran that company for about ten years, took it public.
• 2:47
  Speaker 0: Had about three hundred people over a hundred million revenue at its height.
• 2:53
  Speaker 0: And CEDO is the world's largest domain marketplace.
• 2:57
  Speaker 0: so I bet a lot of entrepreneurs have run into CEDOO some point in time when They've wanted a domain name.
• 3:07
  Speaker 0: And so I have done that whole entrepreneurial journey from literally three friends all the way to take it to the company with public, and then exited that company... ...and started doing some angel investments which is fun side thing.
• 3:25
  Speaker 0: i learned about investing of amazing founders over the last Fifty years doing an angel investments, but during this time I've also started my own things and probably the best known is.
• 3:38
  Speaker 0: Is the company behind ad block in Adblock plus companies called IO?
• 3:45
  Speaker 0: Also a cozy as you know where i'm kind of a lake co-founder at The green search engine that later on found its ass group which buy and build for SaaS companies, so we acquire SaaS companies between one in ten million euros of dollars.
• 4:05
  Speaker 0: I've been revenue to take them into the next level in a very founder friendly way.
• 4:11
  Speaker 0: And yeah on top that i continue my angel investments.
• 4:15
  Speaker 0: um you know also built.
• 4:16
  Speaker 0: uh man it's kind of my latest endeavor.
• 4:26
  Speaker 0: And that because I'm very, very passionate about climate.
• 4:31
  Speaker 0: About making sure we decarbonize our economy and have been trying to mix kind of what I know the entrepreneurial side, investment sides with... What i think is probably the biggest challenge We see more in these days than ever.
• 4:45
  Speaker 0: It's hottest day ever recorded in Europe
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: right?
• 4:51
  Speaker 0: In the world.
• 4:53
  Speaker 0: We need to tackle that.
• 4:54
  Speaker 0: And so besides my more software-focused businesses, IO, SaaS Group and Acroja, CEDO is also still running on a shelf anymore.
• 5:05
  Speaker 0: Climate is the other topic I'm really working hard at.
• 5:09
  Speaker 0: I live in Cologne Germany but travel frequently... ...and I am European at heart!
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Well, we're happy to have you in the EU startups podcast.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: son You seem to be very much fit and the profile There are such a wide variety as I mentioned before.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: now you talked about all these different experiences that you've had founding companies Investing.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Now i'm interested hearing at least from your perspective What's the thread?
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: The connects it all because i mean you know so many people probably heard Atleast of one of these things that you could evolve this ad wall.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Adblock alone is probably generational in its inspiration.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I used it from the moment that i had a laptop and found out what adblock was, so you know just...I'm curious to hear about the thread there between.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: you've got adblock then you have Ecosia planting for ad revenue, planting trees world fund.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Then we get so many different pieces.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: What connects them together?
• 6:16
  Speaker 0: Well, I think there's two things.
• 6:18
  Speaker 0: One is the connection to how I discovered business models or came about with ideas and all of them were essentially scratching my own itch so solving a problem that i had.
• 6:33
  Speaker 0: To give some examples.
• 6:35
  Speaker 0: Before we did CEDO We built websites And always ran into problems that our main name was taken.
• 6:41
  Speaker 0: On the other side, we had domain names from prior projects that were amazing.
• 6:45
  Speaker 0: We just didn't want to let them lapse and it was like hey should be as easy to buy a domain name as it is to register one?
• 6:53
  Speaker 0: And uh...we felt okay lets build a secondary market.
• 6:56
  Speaker 0: so It's really problem.
• 6:58
  Speaker 0: we have directed related our work The same with the ad blocker because CEDO then over the year CEDo developed into um actually had this one of biggest If not the biggest at that time, Google ads indication partners in about twenty eight.
• 7:18
  Speaker 0: Twenty nine putting ads on park domains and At some point one of my colleagues discovered it's like okay There is actually like In the stats.
• 7:28
  Speaker 0: there was one or two percent missing And I was an app locker.
• 7:33
  Speaker 0: That was kind of when I teamed up with the original founder of AdBlock Plus, and we built a company on that.
• 7:40
  Speaker 0: But it was coming in this case from me as the publisher having a problem with a few percent of the ads just not appearing.
• 7:48
  Speaker 0: And the list goes on and on.
• 7:50
  Speaker 0: On The other ones iIwas always kind Of identifying an opportunity From within and Not from oh you know?
• 7:56
  Speaker 0: I saw This VC investment somewhere.
• 7:58
  Speaker 0: now I want to go on that because I feel that's not the right way To To get a startup and the other one I think the other common thread.
• 8:06
  Speaker 0: I like a bit those David versus Goliath businesses.
• 8:12
  Speaker 0: If you look at ad block fighting against The big ad companies if you look At Ecosia probably the best test of them It's now an on-profit that it started as a full profit We transferred into a non-profit A few years ago, we have Google The main competitor and at the same time like worse.
• 8:33
  Speaker 0: Like we're doing so much better, but We have that work taking all the money and planting trees with it And doing so Much for climate Climate action yet?
• 8:44
  Speaker 0: Like we Have So many fights against the big incumbents Google in particular and so I find those dynamics quite interesting.
• 8:52
  Speaker 0: also sass group.
• 8:53
  Speaker 0: we have.
• 8:54
  Speaker 0: We have dozens of small, nimble niche SaaS companies which are each amazing but they all have huge competitors.
• 9:01
  Speaker 0: And we're kind of having this bootstrap mindset that makes us strong with our sustainable growth and it's really a bit of the common thread.
• 9:13
  Speaker 0: With the climate fund, the fossil fuel industry is The evil arch enemy of humanity.
• 9:22
  Speaker 0: And so that's the biggest enemy of everyone!
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Can I quote you on
• 9:27
  Speaker 0: it?
• 9:27
  Speaker 0: You can quote me, absolutely... That is a fight which i think really important and like those kind fights
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, I like that David and Goliath outlook.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Although you know as i say it's not to downplay the impact we've seen with even just ad block.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: but Ecosia is well...I have friends who had nothing do with startup world or climate investing or climate tech in that use of ecosia.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: so there definitely something set about this kind Bell that you've rung, people are interested in.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Whether it's investing through climate focus whether its trying to use search engines have some sort of positive impact.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: and I'm curious then where the kind moral sustainability aspect came from in your approach to things, especially now later on.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: You know when we're talking about you're involved with the coach and we talk about involvement of all fun?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Is there something that pushed you that way throughout your career or is it something you had initially from the very beginning?
• 10:38
  Speaker 0: I mean i think at end its values.
• 10:41
  Speaker 0: you grew up And the family with strong values on both social and political level.
• 10:48
  Speaker 0: I grew up in Freiburg, which is a really little eco town nestled into southwestern part of Germany's probably most friendly city first one whoever had a green mayor.
• 11:01
  Speaker 0: Um i have some amazing teachers who were in this and i think in the end you're we are all the sum off our upbringing.
• 11:12
  Speaker 0: what my values are, and the value is also I want to hand over it to kids.
• 11:20
  Speaker 0: So that's why yeah i can't help but approaching entrepreneurship in a way.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: And when we're talking about the roles because you know We've talked about at the morality of it The philosophy Of It.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: But When we talk About the Roles Because You've Also Held So Many Different Roles Whether Its A CEO or Co-Founder Or whether its an Investor How has that been, the kind of movement between them?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Is there one you were naturally more in tune with or is it a difficult one for you to switch into?
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: and how do you feel about this?
• 11:55
  Speaker 0: Yeah.
• 11:56
  Speaker 0: The roles are a bit fluid.
• 11:57
  Speaker 0: In my case I like the entrepreneurial role the most.
• 12:02
  Speaker 0: All of those aren't even in the climate fund.
• 12:05
  Speaker 0: we're building a company We're acquiring customers LPs working with founders.
• 12:11
  Speaker 0: So it's very entrepreneurial.
• 12:12
  Speaker 0: but the pure investment itself, um... The mechanics of investment I find less interesting.
• 12:18
  Speaker 0: uh i like to building things up and so probably that is the most interesting one.
• 12:25
  Speaker 0: but also through investing in the angel investment l learn get to know some great people ,i learned so much .So its really a nice combination.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Well, you say entrepreneurship but there was a. I read an article on the SAS websites from twenty three where he said that You felt your were better at scaling than building and I kind want to hear more about that because That's an interesting take.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: i think that you don't hear From a lot of entrepreneurs.
• 12:56
  Speaker 0: yeah thats um That is right?
• 12:58
  Speaker 0: I think There was A bit Of learning from my app lock time Because App Lock Apple plus Was not My idea.
• 13:05
  Speaker 0: My co-founder Vladimir, he invented Apple Plus.
• 13:09
  Speaker 0: I discovered him when we were looking at the analytics of CEDO and found out as described earlier that there are some percentages of traffic taken away.
• 13:24
  Speaker 0: but then they build a company together.
• 13:26
  Speaker 0: in.
• 13:26
  Speaker 0: my main strength was like making a company with everything what it takes while he was the technical genius.
• 13:35
  Speaker 0: And SaaS Group is a bit similar, we acquire some amazing products but where founders hit almost like an invisible glass ceiling because they are not the best in scaling of product But their really good at figuring out product market fit, initial product market fits.
• 13:53
  Speaker 0: and I think those two different skills over time noticed that i can build things up like Worldfun, we build things up from ground.
• 14:04
  Speaker 0: But I am better in actually if there's something existing and scaling that to a certain extent i'm probably not the right one running thousand people company but yeah it's just something.
• 14:20
  Speaker 0: over the years you discover what your better at where you need other.
• 14:24
  Speaker 0: Well,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and going through that line of thought then with SaaS Group.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: So your main offerings are you're buying...you're acquiring SaaS companies in helping them scale upwards?
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: What's that conversation like?
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: because I have to imagine founders they buy nature very obsessed what they've built.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: They're very particular, very peculiar about the exact ways that company functions.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and only a company but the culture of the company... The identity of the companies.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: There has to be worry there for many founders when their kind offering themselves up.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: you just say What guarantee can give me this is going to scale?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: But scale in way consistent with how it's come-up whether its culture or its identity Whether It' s image.
• 15:12
  Speaker 0: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 15:16
  Speaker 0: I mean you can't give any guarantees because they wouldn't be worth anything.
• 15:21
  Speaker 0: if i've bought companies or sold companies and You have to know that if you sell the company ultimately someone else owns it And Someone Else Calls The Shots which is why its so important as with investors To see what their like What Their Value Is How They Run Other Companies.
• 15:39
  Speaker 0: That Probably The Best Predictor on how they want to run your company.
• 15:43
  Speaker 0: So, I mean there are cultures that have very aggressive.
• 15:47
  Speaker 0: There are cultures with very consensus based and all sorts of values.
• 15:54
  Speaker 0: at the end if you sell to someone your own culture or company will over time slowly but surely be assimilated in the acquired company and the acquirer's culture.
• 16:08
  Speaker 0: And so I think you better just look at, find out through a series of conversations to references how that is about.
• 16:15
  Speaker 0: but also you have to live with it simply as a founder.
• 16:17
  Speaker 0: You're selling it But you should just sell for someone where you think okay The business isn't right hands.
• 16:24
  Speaker 0: We also do the same thing.
• 16:26
  Speaker 0: i mean we Look At the culture Of the company.
• 16:29
  Speaker 0: were acquiring if this Is completely different?
• 16:33
  Speaker 0: We wouldn't acquire the Company even if the numbers are great, because we would just think okay that's not going to work and it is gonna be so much more or it will change the culture.
• 16:44
  Speaker 0: It isn't worth it... So culture is super important!
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: How do you how?
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Do get a grasp on culture too because it's such an ethereal concept, right I mean is that dude.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Do you talk to employees?
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: yeah You go the office.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: what had again image of
• 17:02
  Speaker 0: all of them?
• 17:03
  Speaker 0: talk to me.
• 17:04
  Speaker 0: There's an office.
• 17:04
  Speaker 0: we go to the office but remote versus offices.
• 17:07
  Speaker 0: one other big culture Clashes and there's no right or wrong either.
• 17:13
  Speaker 0: they're amazing.
• 17:14
  Speaker 0: companies in office are amazing remote companies.
• 17:17
  Speaker 0: But a lot is the style, and what the founder's like.
• 17:21
  Speaker 0: And acquisition is long process.
• 17:22
  Speaker 0: it takes weeks or months.
• 17:26
  Speaker 0: where you get to know the founder really well You get feeling for what that culture is?
• 17:31
  Speaker 0: What how he treats employees Because its always begins with the founder.
• 17:37
  Speaker 0: so we have a feeling of that.
• 17:39
  Speaker 0: If thats totally different from our values Yeah, then we would back off of an acquisition.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had a founder back-off from being acquired?
• 17:53
  Speaker 0: Of course!
• 17:55
  Speaker 0: People go into this process and people run away in church before they get married.
• 18:02
  Speaker 0: I mean that's the classic movie thing.
• 18:04
  Speaker 0: And it happens in acquisitions You know... The closer to that date which is probably The single biggest event in the life of that person Giving away, the company he or she has built over years and very often being financially set for life.
• 18:27
  Speaker 0: That is a major decision.
• 18:28
  Speaker 0: i would actually argue.
• 18:29
  Speaker 0: That it's bigger than most other marriage.
• 18:32
  Speaker 0: this decision where I mean kids are the bigger decision, but then marriage itself is less than acquisition decisions in terms of what life changes.
• 18:46
  Speaker 0: And so yeah we had founders back off all the time like it happens sometimes early in process and later in process doesn't happen often I mean again similar to marriages.
• 19:03
  Speaker 0: most people think about this once they stand infront.
• 19:07
  Speaker 0: They've thought this through long enough, so it's the exception not to norm but happens.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: And how many of them in terms of percent wise want to be involved at a senior level post acquisition?
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Because because that... It must kind of depend on the founder right.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: some must be.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I wanna cut loose you know give me my money i won't go onto the next thing and imagine there must be others who just kinda have to kind of grow the company.
• 19:39
  Speaker 0: Totally, I would say it's fifty-fifty and both is totally fine.
• 19:44
  Speaker 0: like at Sasuke we love to acquire founders that are like oh i want to take some chips off the table...I want someone to help me grow but yeah..i wanna grow with you....and its equally fine if Founders says hey!
• 19:58
  Speaker 0: Im burned
• 19:58
  Speaker 0: out!!
• 19:59
  Speaker 0: I'm gonna do something
• 19:59
  Speaker 0: new!!!
• 20:00
  Speaker 0: I wanna go back to building.
• 20:02
  Speaker 0: I am going to a few months handover.
• 20:04
  Speaker 0: then im done.
• 20:05
  Speaker 0: Both is fine.
• 20:06
  Speaker 0: It of course has an effect on price, how you model deals and structure acquisition but we feel it all starts with the motivation of the founder And that's what we call Founder Friendly.
• 20:20
  Speaker 0: Let us ask if we don't have one fixed Acquisition Framework where everything has to fit into That But We try To Make This In A Human Way.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, well moving from SAS Group because you have so much and I want to get into different aspects of what you do.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Going in world fund here the first question always has two entrepreneurs investors who are involved on impact focus initiatives climate tech is really general questions how we feel were doing with these things.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: If we're talking about decarbonization, right?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: And now you've been involved for a couple of years through whether it's Ecosia or whether it is World Fund.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: how do feel worth sizing up because I see so many reports that are too late.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: We have done so much damage and not going back Or if there still headway to be made and positive impact
• 21:18
  Speaker 0: Of course!
• 21:19
  Speaker 0: You know when it comes decarbonization of electricity with renewables.
• 21:28
  Speaker 0: We've made amazing progress, we're beyond a tipping point now where coal and others and oil they don't have the chance because the combination of solar wind batteries an intelligent grid all that is so much cheaper more reliant more resilient than then old fossil fuel models.
• 21:53
  Speaker 0: And you can see that, I mean Texas is still building more solar than ever before.
• 22:00
  Speaker 0: they don't care what Trump says or whatever because it makes the economic sense and we have a lot of those areas electricity's just one but also to switch from in transportation electric vehicles.
• 22:14
  Speaker 0: i think there another one where tipping point not as close as an electricity production.
• 22:19
  Speaker 0: We have other things where there's a lot more work to be done in food agriculture.
• 22:23
  Speaker 0: land use is big topic.
• 22:25
  Speaker 0: Thirty percent of carbon emissions produced in that sector buildings still a big thing, but we're making amazing progress.
• 22:33
  Speaker 0: It's not fast enough and we still like the old guards Old politicians mostly all politicians That are also backed by fossil fuel companies.
• 22:47
  Speaker 0: they They're trying to change the course of action, and they've got to be on the wrong side of history.
• 22:53
  Speaker 0: But I think we are making good progress but not fast enough.
• 22:58
  Speaker 0: also to clear with good progress it should be much faster
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: It has been said that more companies have some kind of stance in their climate impact Especially now when living through this AI age and so many companies base themselves off of AI.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: The conversation eventually has to turn into, well what's your... How much usage are you putting in effect here?
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You know how is this impacting data center usage?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: How that can impact climate-focused numbers?
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: So it's more.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: More companies need to have that kind of stance and understanding on what they do.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like seeing more companies with a climate tech focus?
• 23:47
  Speaker 0: Well, in the existing companies we see clear net zero targets which is one of the drivers for decarbonization.
• 24:05
  Speaker 0: an amazing investment also pays in into European security, European resilience.
• 24:10
  Speaker 0: All of those things fix together.
• 24:11
  Speaker 0: I mean if we're not... If you don't have to import oil and gas We are not paying dictators.
• 24:20
  Speaker 0: money were not dependent on someone cutting us off whether that's a gas pipeline from Russia or the street of promos.
• 24:29
  Speaker 0: And the list goes on and on.
• 24:31
  Speaker 0: so i think it It's good on so many levels also for the competitiveness of Europe and the independence, resilience and security with Europe.
• 24:43
  Speaker 0: That is a really good thing to have!
• 24:47
  Speaker 0: And yes in those segments we're seeing more and more startups especially electricity.
• 24:53
  Speaker 0: there was an amazing abundance of great teams, great technologies.
• 24:57
  Speaker 0: We are seeing.
• 24:58
  Speaker 0: world func were seeing more deals than ever.
• 25:00
  Speaker 0: We've reviewed three thousand deals in the last twelve months, and that's up pretty much doubled since two or three years ago.
• 25:11
  Speaker 0: When we started it was about one-thousand.
• 25:14
  Speaker 0: five hundred now might also be better known now.
• 25:19
  Speaker 0: And of course word of mouth spreads.
• 25:20
  Speaker 0: so there are different factors.
• 25:22
  Speaker 0: There're some headwinds on the regulatory side.
• 25:25
  Speaker 0: as I said The political Agenda on both sides of the Atlantic has been better a few years ago.
• 25:36
  Speaker 0: And so it's not all perfect, but we're seeing a lot great companies being built there and also that is really important A lot of companies where makes economic sense Is one big issue.
• 25:54
  Speaker 0: too often founders start something they are like I'm like climate aware and a lot of people will buy this because it's the climate friendly product.
• 26:04
  Speaker 0: And that is a trap, cause i am super-climate aware myself!
• 26:11
  Speaker 0: But its pick products are more climate friendly but very small percentage.
• 26:17
  Speaker 0: at end day you have to build things that make economic sense.
• 26:28
  Speaker 0: kind of guarding our investment thesis saying we only invest in climate tech that you can sell to climate tech deniers.
• 26:38
  Speaker 0: And the idea is really okay.
• 26:40
  Speaker 0: if a product, and this my Texas example from earlier.
• 26:44
  Speaker 0: I'm pretty sure there are great people in Texas but they're also.
• 26:48
  Speaker 0: it's deeply red state.
• 26:49
  Speaker 0: A lot of people are Trump policy But make sense economic sense.
• 26:53
  Speaker 0: They build solar because It makes sense.
• 26:58
  Speaker 0: Yeah, I think that is the type of products we need to build and that's the great things.
• 27:03
  Speaker 0: I think physics on our side.
• 27:05
  Speaker 0: It is deeply inefficient To dig out oil shuttle it across the world Burned once And go back to digging you out compared to putting up a panel wants an hey Sun shines Batteries have gone so efficient.
• 27:21
  Speaker 0: So physics are so much On our site?
• 27:27
  Speaker 0: but we need to be faster.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Right, you've touched on an interesting point that I did want to get into it.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: when talking about climate deniers and selling them something...you know, selling two climate denier's there has been a common critique of well this is great on paper You know?
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: But at the end of day its not really sustainable model.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: The end date isn't going to be company.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: they can make it stand out so tuffy.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: What do say people like that?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: apply that blanket critique to most of climate tech.
• 27:58
  Speaker 0: It's wrong because, yes with every other company some companies are full of fluff and they propose something it makes no sense for customers.
• 28:08
  Speaker 0: Automatically they go bankrupt and you have amazing companies.
• 28:11
  Speaker 0: but do you ever that in every field?
• 28:12
  Speaker 0: You have an AI just as much as a climate.
• 28:14
  Speaker 0: Yes we see climate companies where like nobody is going buy them.
• 28:18
  Speaker 0: That's nice thing which make no economic sense.
• 28:21
  Speaker 0: But so many amazing things were.
• 28:25
  Speaker 0: Also, in food agriculture land use there's so many examples where you can just very efficiently produce proteins for example which are now produced through animals and they eat essentially.
• 28:41
  Speaker 0: They have to eat.
• 28:44
  Speaker 0: I don't know the exact number but it is like seventy or eighty percent of the land used.
• 28:55
  Speaker 0: Of course, you have a massive loss of calories.
• 28:58
  Speaker 0: You feed twenty times the calories into an animal and then five or ten percent depends on the amount of the calories come out.
• 29:07
  Speaker 0: That's like.
• 29:08
  Speaker 0: that is definition for an inefficient machine so to say I mean with combustion engine versus electric.
• 29:16
  Speaker 0: you know we are at ratio one two three seventy-five percent.
• 29:25
  Speaker 0: But in food and agriculture, it's even worse.
• 29:28
  Speaker 0: And that is something we need to tackle.
• 29:30
  Speaker 0: We have to produce our food a different way but with seeing amazing start-ups there producing food healthier cheaper of course more friendly It has to be all of them.
• 29:44
  Speaker 0: It has been cheaper and healthier because people will not pay anymore.
• 29:49
  Speaker 0: People also won't risk their health.
• 29:52
  Speaker 0: But if you really get into that triangle, then you have a superior product And that's what we're getting to them.
• 29:58
  Speaker 0: That's kind of the stuff We're investing in.
• 30:01
  Speaker 0: those are the moon shots In that area and there some some really cool stuff out There.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: okay Well, I think we're gonna get to the final question here.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: And uh...I'll let you go and maybe enjoy some AC somewhere or a nice cool shower so that you don't have to be suffering here which i understand completely at work this black polo for the interview.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: my girlfriend thought it was crazy.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: but what are you doing?
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: You're going to sweat to death on your way to work!
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: But yes..on this final question right there It's always important to look ahead And to look forward and kind of hear your opinion on how you see things moving.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: So according my notes will fund is found in twenty one.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: so that means where we've hit the five-year anniversary this year, I think it's a good frame.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: maybe put for the question world fund in five years from now, how you want to see the impact of it.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Is that just... You've helped more climate tech companies get started?
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: You have expanded the amount of funding in climate tech overall.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: what's ... How do you want us to see those five years for them?
• 31:13
  Speaker 0: Yeah I mean we build a great platform.
• 31:17
  Speaker 0: things take time.
• 31:18
  Speaker 0: like with every startup startup is always a marathon, not a sprint.
• 31:24
  Speaker 0: So five years almost nothing.
• 31:26
  Speaker 0: SAS is also now eight-years old.
• 31:29
  Speaker 0: things take time and we've built the platform.
• 31:32
  Speaker 0: uh And the platform is that?
• 31:34
  Speaker 0: yeah We're seeing all the great founders in Europe.
• 31:37
  Speaker 0: were not all the universities?
• 31:39
  Speaker 0: Uh, we see where technology is built.
• 31:42
  Speaker 0: Um, and you have the funding to invest.
• 31:45
  Speaker 0: of course we will be raising the next fund.
• 31:47
  Speaker 0: um at some point we have invested our three hundred million.
• 31:51
  Speaker 0: We still have some dry powder, but we're on prepping the next fund.
• 31:58
  Speaker 0: so World Fund two.
• 32:00
  Speaker 0: ideally that should be bigger because yes we could do a lot more with more money.
• 32:05
  Speaker 0: generally climate tech needs more money.
• 32:11
  Speaker 0: it's really about the next generation of european deep tech that helps for decarbonization so thats kinda where climate change label comes from.
• 32:22
  Speaker 0: but it also help security, resilience really the competitiveness of Europe and we are contributing as much to that.
• 32:37
  Speaker 0: Mario Draghi has phrase that extremely well in the Draghi report.
• 32:41
  Speaker 0: We need to really, really invest significantly more into that.
• 32:46
  Speaker 0: otherwise we have a stark risk of falling behind.
• 32:51
  Speaker 0: and those are other technologies where were still strong but also can make it difference at what we had with talent, patterns, manufacturing industry.
• 33:06
  Speaker 0: Germany, for example was in other parts of Europe.
• 33:10
  Speaker 0: And so we really have all the ingredients to that.
• 33:13
  Speaker 0: but we need just do more and bigger and stop investing into real estate and public markets and U.S.
• 33:23
  Speaker 0: companies... We'll get there then.
• 33:26
  Speaker 0: I think it's going be also an amazing opportunity For for us, I myself are putting all the money.
• 33:37
  Speaker 0: I make an ad tech and put it into climate tech because that's my big bet for next five ten twenty years is a long-term game but i think thats going to be more important than anything else and winners will made there.
• 33:54
  Speaker 0: so yeah we have good platform.
• 33:59
  Speaker 0: That's how we would define success in the end.
• 34:01
  Speaker 0: We made a contribution to actually helping with that, not going do it alone.
• 34:05
  Speaker 0: We need ten mobile funds in Europe and lots of more entrepreneurs but we're gonna contribute to
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: this.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Well you know...we are always happy people on this show and on EU Starbs support these kinds things And behind-the-wheel.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I think its looking very good.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: So we'll be happy to see more of, uh... More advancements in all this and more news from WorldFundant.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: From McCoggen, from SAS Group And all your different issues.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: so I want thank you Tim for coming on.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: it's been a pleasure!
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: And i hope talk with again soon.
• 34:43
  Speaker 0: Thank You For Having Me.