Latest / WoT Spoilers / Changes, Into Canluum, The Deeps - New Spring ch14-16 - EP587

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Changes, Into Canluum, The Deeps - New Spring ch14-16 - EP587 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the wheel of time spoilers podcast changes, bringing
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: together the two trains of moraine and land, and there
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: is a collision that is imminent. They will not collide yet,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: but we are definitely, as you were just saying, we're
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: turning two straight parallel lines into two bending, inevitably intersecting lines.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: With today's section, which is mostly land. We get a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: bit of moraine, but it's mostly land. The plot, exciting,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: plot forwarding, important heavy lifting is on the land stuff.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: And that happens, yes, where he got a little bit
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: in the beginning of the book, and this is the beginning.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: We've passed the halfway point, so now this is the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: beginning of the second half.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: It really is like the series in Microcosm, you know.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: M hmm, all right, so changes. What is this symbol? Oh,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: it's the birching triangle, isn't it?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Oh? Is that what it is? I was going to
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: ask you. I think so we should we should absolutely
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: look this up.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Hold on, I've never seen this in the folder of
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: symbols that I use in the Spreaker to go go
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: with the podcast episodes, like but it's a triangle of
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: wooden sticks put together, So I think it must be
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the birching triangle or whatever they call it.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: This is the only chapter it appears in, and it's
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: called the square chapter icon it doesn't yeah, hmm, Trader's
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Court of the White Tower.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, to watch an Isidice stripped and stretch
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: tight on the triangle, then birched until she howled. I
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: do not understand why this is a thing. This seems
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: like a very practical shape to tie someone to. I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: guess that's what the square around it is for. But
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: then why is there a triangle? I don't understand.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking a little bit like da Vinci like model
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: of Man, where you have someone like kind of strapped up,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: except instead of a circle, a Saint.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Andrew's cross exists.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm confused, so I said, I are
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: trying to be unique.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, well this seems weirdly impractical. But anyhow, that's what
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: the symbol is for this chapter.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking somehow tied to the theory of three. Right,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: you've got three lines of a triangle, three oaths. I
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: don't you know, somehow you're each each line represents something
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: about your growth to the White Court, to the White Tower.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, I'm making it up as
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I go. I'm not convinced. It's a weird symbol and
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: this and again, this appears to be the only chapter
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: that ever is in, right, It's not in the rest
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: of the main series, so we have no other chapter
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: to be like, well, in this chapter it's this, and
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: in that chapter is that? It's just this chapter.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like the birching situation gets mentioned a couple of times,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: but yeah, this is the most explicitly visual instance of.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: That, and it does seem to be, I don't know,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: just not that important to the chapter. In my opinion.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It's like a symbol of the new Ombrelin's interpretation of
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: justice and kind of what Marin is running away from
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: in some ways, but that feels like a stretch. Yeah, yeah,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I think it represents the transition of Omorlins, right, the
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: fact that we go from Tamra who was pretty awesome
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to Sierra, who's like super intense and really changes the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: tone of a lot of things in the Tower. So
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I think that's why it's relevant, because that's a symbol
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: of how much she changes everything just by virtue of
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: being the person she is.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: It really does feel like when a company gets bought
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: out by somebody else, and it's like, well, changing management
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: and management style and how you get promoted and who's
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: ass you have to kiss and all those things.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Big time, which to an extent, you would expect because
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: it is an aja transition, right, We're not passing to
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: another ombrelin from the same adja. But also this is
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: a really intense and unplant transition.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: It's also a personality change, right, Like, it's not just yeah,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: massive personality, right that on top of the new agole
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. Yeah, But like, especially when the
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: White Tower, the ambulance personality makes such a big difference
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: in how it's run.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: It's not that big of an organization. As we've talked
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: about over and over again. The sheer number of people
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: that are involved in this isn't that many, right, So
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the strength of a personality does not have far to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: go in order to affect everyone in the institution. Yeah,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: so should I read us into this?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Go for it? Breden?
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, reading us into chapter fourteen changes the sisters who
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: had said there was almost as much to learn after
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: gaining the Shawl as before. We're proven right. In short order,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Marina's swan had learned the complexities of White Tower customs
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: as accepted, especially which once had been in existence so
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: long they had the force of law and the penalties
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: for violating them. Now, Raffella and the others spent hours
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: instructing them in the long list of Blue Aja customs
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: accreted over three thousand years. Swan actually retained most of
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: what Raffella had told them during their first walk to
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the Blue Quarters, and Moraine had to work hard to
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: catch up. It would have been a shame to gain
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: a penance for something so trivial as bring red inside
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: the tower. Red gems were allowed fire drops or rubies
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: or garnets, but the color was forbidden in clothing. A
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: matter of some long standing animosity between the blue and
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: the red so old no one was actually certain what
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: had begun at or when the blue and the red
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: opposed each other, as a matter of course, at times
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: bringing the Hall to a near standstill. The answer is metaphor.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: The answer why red and blue hate each other in
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: the White House is because metaphor. I'm sorry, the White Tower.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: God. I have to wonder how much this actually supposed
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: to represent the American politics.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: It has to have been like so intentional, so intentional.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: He has seven colors, and he just happened to pick
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: red and blue as the progressive versus conservative heroic versus
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: villain leading the entire drama. Like he had five other
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: colors he could have decided to be more subtle with
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and nope, nope, but.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: You know, you go with the primary colors. Blue and
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: red are kind of the default opposition. You know, you
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: could do red and green, but then you're doing Christmas.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: So I think red and blue makes sense as opposing
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: primary colors. And like I can see where maybe just
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: if you're looking at colors to oppose each other, you
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: want the two most powerful to be the primary colors
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: that do oppose each other. So I could see how
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: we could fall into it without intending it to be
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: a political statement.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: He used so many metaphors to talk about what was
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: going on in our world. I just no, he didn't
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: do it because it was pretty. I refuse to accept
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: that he did it because it was pretty, is the explanation.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Like he knew what he was doing, He knew what
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: he was doing. Yeah, maybe why am I reading about
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: medieval torture devices right now?
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Because this is it's the chapter icon is a medieval
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: torture device. So that's how we went down that rabbit hole.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: The Judas Cradle is a bad thing. Hot take. I
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: don't like that.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Hot take. Yeah, no, I'm going to say a torture
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: device named after a trader probably not going to be
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: a good thing. And I'm not reading the article.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's unnecessary, but yeah, if anyone wants to bother themselves,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: that would be the search term. More relevant question to
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: our interests. What are fire drops? If they are not rubies,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing maybe red opals.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Are they not just fantasy gems, because I feel like
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: I've only ever heard of them in fantasy novels.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking. They might be red opals, because
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: if you're in a medieval context, you're going to be
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: naming them by what they look like, not by what
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: they chemically are, and so particularly red opal would be
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: very fiery looking, and so that might be I mean
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: kind of like how rubies are just the red shade
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: of a particular mineral that is also sapphire and emerald
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: whose name I'm forgetting right now, But they're all the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: same thing chemically, it's just the color changes, and so
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: we name them different things.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: What about like amber?
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Don't they know what amber is?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Though?
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Don't they have a name for amber in this anyway? Ambers? Like,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's a stone kind of, but
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: it's so different from stone. Yeah, doctor Pants is saying
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: that fire opal is a term that's coming up, So
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go with an ople that leans really
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: heavily onto the red colors. Yeah, there are ambers ungriel
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: thank you, or on greel thank you religion. So, yeah,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: they know what amber is. They've got a name for amber.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: But oples come in so many colors and they look
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: really really cool.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: When the question was asked on Reddit, the answers were orange, sapphire, topazes, opals, citrines.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, citrine, oregon, sunstone. Yeah sure, maybe those are.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Really yellow though, fire opals.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I like the idea of opel because those are
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: so sparkly.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Carnelian yeah, red laberdite is that a thing?
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Really? I mean I guess you can get any color really.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And then of course people are like, oh, but he's
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: mentioned oples, He's mentioned amber, right, Like.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he does mention oples. Well, red oples could
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: be worth giving their own name, right, They're so pretty.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: So That's one of those things that I feel like
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: is just like, oh yeah, we want a fantasy stone,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: call it a fire drop and move on the rain
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: wilds in uh, Realm of the Elderlings. So Realm of
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: the elder Lings definitely by Robin Hobb. I feel like
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: she has like sun drops or so you know, some
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: fan to see gems that they find and they spread around. Yeah.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Man, freaking fantasy stereotypes, fantasy cliches. This is like drop
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: like a sack of potatoes.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really like there's.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Some terms that my mom was asking me about this
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: earlier when we were recording. She wanted to know some
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: cliches that annoyed me because she had a couple of
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: sewing cliches she wanted to talk about, but one in particular,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: And I of course couldn't think I'd never heard a
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: cliche in my life when she asked me that question,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: except I could think of the sack of potatoes one,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and now this is another one. Is just throwing in
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: random word salad to describe various rocks and gems and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: trees to make your fantasy land seem a little bit different.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: But it's not Earth, or it is Earth and we
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: just call it something. You know, the names are different
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: enough even though they're speaking English, so why not use
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: the English terms for the things?
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at least in his Dark Materials they did. They
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: actually had like world building levels of explanation for that
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: of like, oh, this is part of how you can
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: tell there's subtly different worlds is because certain word choices
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: ended up like, you know, zigging instead of zagging, right,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: so you have chuck alttle instead of chocolate and stuff
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: That was also a book where they had our world
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: in it, right, like this one doesn't. I mean maybe
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: somewhere far in the past.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, book one is just in a fantasy world.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: You don't get our world till book two, right technically,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it's a thing.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: That doesn't even have to necessarily be our world. It
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: could just be you know, an age a lot like
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: our world.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be our.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: World, I know, but it doesn't have to be.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying the author actually bothered to put
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: some world building behind that. Instead of just waving his
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: hands to make it seem like fantasy, he actually was like, no,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: this is part of like how I constructed the palette
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: from which I'm drawing the story. Anyway, we're going to
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: spend a couple more paragraphs talking about AJA alliances. I
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: don't really feel they need to go into it super intensely.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: It's just, you know, we're speed running. Oh yeah, all
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: of not speed running. We're delving into all the different
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: audio dynamics as they existed twenty years before the present day.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: This is a montage of information. You don't learn until
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: you become an is Sidi. You don't learn how to
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: bond a warder. You don't learn how to resist heat
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: and cold. You don't learn about AJA loyalties. Right, these
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: are all the things that become part of sort of like, Okay,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: now you're an I said I, we can let you
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: in on some secrets that only I said I know,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: because when you were accepted, you weren't you know, good
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: enough to know those secrets. And you know the first
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: line there was almost as much to learn after gaining
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: the shawl as before. Right, So then then it's basically
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: lists off all the things they have to learn.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is also where she learns like the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and attracting weaves that she's going to use on land, Right,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: This is where she sort of realizes that the listening
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: weave that she's kept secret is something she's going to
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: keep secret continuously. And maybe other sisters have stuff like
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: that too, Right, that Varren uses that to rebuild compulsion later,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: it probably is actively working on it and using it
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: in the field at this point. Just that's a cool
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: stuff we know about the power coming up.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Also, like seeing Moraine look at Suan going, God, she
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: picks it up so fast every time. I can barely
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: keep up. And I loved I would love to see
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: from the other POV because I'm sure Suan's like, god, damn,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Loraine's so talented and she's Yeah, it's definitely the you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: oh she's so good with men or whatever.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: But that version of yeah, exactly one is looking at
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Marine going, man, I wish I was as smart as her.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I wish I was whatever. The specific talent is like.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Right, because you know they're both insanely talented and all
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Moraine seizes her own flaws and Suon's achievements.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: We also get a nice long lesson on the trick
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: of concentration, not just oh it's a trick of concentration,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: but actually a whole paragraph description of how the process works,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: which is actually remarkably similar to how we found balance
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: in aikido. These instructions for how to do the heat
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and cultric actually starts out very much like how an aikido.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: It's you find your center of gravity both mentally and physically. Like,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: these instructions are really close to that. Actually, it's pretty funny. Yeah,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: this isn't just some random word cyle. This is actually
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: based on there's many ways people have chosen to redirect
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: and control their minds that kind of all are the
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: same in a lot of ways. The space below and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: down and yeah, and I like.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: That he represents that that you have. Yeah, you have
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: the flame and the void, you have the code you
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: have you know what's going on here about learning how
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: to normal a heat and cold Like those all kind
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: of come together to become the same thing, which is
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: like a level of concentration. And so all the different
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: cultures have different ways of describing it and different ways
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: of getting there.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: It's a meditative altered state that allows access to literally
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: supernatural abilities for some people and just surprisingly good normal
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: abilities for other people. And then the next thing I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: have is moraine proving that she is in fact Rand's
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: spiritual mom because she gets a bunch of invitations to
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: a ball that she doesn't want to engage in because
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: dais seymar is dumb. So she throws the cards into
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the fire, a dangerous move. But she's not playing the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: game of houses. She's hiding, damn it. And I'm like,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: you are literally Rand's spiritual mom. It's so cute.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I was like, does Jordan, do you really not know
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: what else to do with invitations? That has to be
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: a callback, that has to be an absolute. When he's
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: writing this, he has to be like, well, all I
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: have to do with the invitations, she'll have to burn
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: them because then she's also an immature kid, right, That's
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: the idea, is like the immature kid who doesn't really
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: know what they're doing and fleeing from her responsibilities of
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: being a queen.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I see in It is like twenty
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: years later, if she had been there with Rance, she
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: would have recommended doing something else. Right, twenty years later,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: she's more chill, less reactive, more clever, more subtle. But here, yeah,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: she's a freshly minted adult thrown out into the world
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: of having to figure this all out and she's freaking
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: out and just throws everything in the fire, exactly like
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: her savior son will be doing in twenty years. It's
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: so cute because in book two you get the sense
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: that Mareen would never have advised that. Right, Rand's doing
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: that because he's driftless, but like, yeah, Marine would have
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: done that.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: At one point, She's made the mistake right that she
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: would now tell him not to make.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Although I think it works out fine for her in
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: this world.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, she runs away good, real good.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Nope, lesson that she learns from. Like, maybe she would
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: have advised him to do this in book too, But
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like when you're reading book two, you're like, well,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: obviously this is what a rash teenager does and Marine
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: would never And it's like, well, when Marine was a
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: rash teenager, she would.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: We see Suon struggling with her appointment at first, but
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: then sort of leaning into it and you know, becoming practiced, good, excited.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not really sure what goes on there.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I think she gets engaged. I think she finally gets
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: hooked on a project and her curiosity gets peaked. You know,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: so you try to make yourself started a job start
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: a book, start an email, whatever it is, and then
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: you get into the flow and you realize that, like
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: what you were pushing yourself to do, you've now done.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: She goes through that transition, but with a whole ass career,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: and it takes her all of five days to completely
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: lose having a polite tongue. Now she is the foul mouthed,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: fish cuts flinging Swan that we know and love.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: It takes her, Yeah, once she becomes ie an eye. Yeah,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: because no one could call her down because she's there
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: above most people fish guts. I have a theory that
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: she goes from hating the job and then she finds
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: out that this woman is actually the Blue, the spy
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: master for the Blue, and that it's not just puzzles
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: and bullshit, that it's actually spying for the Blue ad Jaw,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden she's fully in.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: No, she knew that already, because the day she comes
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: back from her interview and tells Moraine about it, Moraine
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: puts it together and Swan says, I wasn't supposed to
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: tell anyone, so she knows. But yeah, I think that
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason, she realizes the power with information that
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: she could have there partially probably the hunt for the
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: boy child, right, you know, part of it is going
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to be, oh, I'll be able to like catch reports
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: of stuff. But I think she also just gets drawn
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: into some other project. I think somehow Setalia is able
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: to get her invested in some projects that just hooks
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: her curiosity. It's not just little puzzles. It becomes some
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: bigger like, oh, we're going to unravel some you know,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: actual real world, meaningful problem, and that it's like invested
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: because she's a blue, right, she's a seeker after causes.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, Cetailia is a blue also, like it's it's
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: the blue eyes and ears. But you know she's an
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: uber blue.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: An effective administrator can get more done than someone out
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: in the field doing the work in some cases, right,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: because if you can make the right connections and point
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: people in the right direction, you can save a lot
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: of work by making sure the right work is done
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: at the right time by the right people.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: So, and you can also cause a lot of work
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: by pointing the wrong people to the wrong job at
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: the wrong time. Ask me how I know I go
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: to work every day, Yeah, you know, and that's something
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: you know, people, like, you know, the head rots from
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: the top, and part of that is just like if
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: people are wasting work, if people are doing the wrong thing,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: if you're pointed in the wrong direction, it doesn't matter
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: how effective you are. It doesn't matter how efficient you are,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: You're never going to accomplish the goal. But if you
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: have someone at home who can point you in the
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: right direction, point you at the right village, find out
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: who the boy is, manage all the politics so you
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: don't have to while you're out searching for.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Him, right, Yeah, yeah, totally. So I's probably seeing the
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: potential to arrange the nations of the world to be ready, right, Like,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: that's a huge part of the appeal, and make sure
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that certain ideas and policies are or are not emphasized. Yeah,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of attraction there.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I would have liked to see more evidence of that.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying, like I can see where the
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: appeal is. It's getting her involved, right right, seeing that
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: wide open horizon of potential. It would have been if
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: any of it was realized. But you know, she's young
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: and idealistic.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: It's like the ambulance seat of ten years knew the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: drag and re Born was coming. She should have absolutely
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: done more to get the nations ready and united. Like
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: That's that's one thing I do like. I love Suan like,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I think she's a great character. I really love the
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: thing she does. But I think she was incredibly shortsighted
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: on what she was doing with the White Tower in
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: terms of the White Tower of politics, the way they
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: were stayed divided, the way she didn't unite. You know,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: there needed to be this like almost called to action,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: to be like, we have signs that the last battle
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: is coming. We need to start uniting and not this Liken,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: you're the ambulance seat. You don't need to continue to
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: seek I guess you do continue to continue a secret
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: mission because of the black a jockey's murdering people who don't.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of it is that
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: ten years or however many years under this hard ass
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: probably kind of paranoid task mistress and seeing all that
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: black Auja Shenanigan's going down once she finally gets to
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the armor, Lan see, Yeah, the concept of openness is
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: like many years in the rear view, like absolutely not,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and I think it's Yeah, it's a flaw she has
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: it's not good, but it makes sense given that she's
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: immediately taken under the wing of a harsh task mistress
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: who is also the spymaster, and she just sees all
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: the other agents dying mysteriously.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, yeah, the distribution of the money.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Moraine gets put in charge of the distribution
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: of the money, which we were talking about earlier. Shouldn't
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: this not take very long? Shouldn't this be easy? Shouldn't
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: this go by quickly? Moraine has those thoughts too. She
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: seems like the Tower is making this take longer just
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: to keep her tied down. It seems like that's what's
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: going on. But yeah, she's trying to make the money
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: go out faster, but it's also giving her a chance
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: to calibrate to the scale of how hard it is
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: going to be defined these women, because women are tearing
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: out it here like that's out of hell, not that
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: the war is over over.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: This time elled dies in her test or disappears.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And then Ellid dies, which I wanted to point out
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: the White Towers approach to a massively traumatic event is
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: to just sweep it under the rug and shove it
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: down and pretend it never happened. Like that is the
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: worst way you could take a team of people and
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: help them handle the loss of one of their own.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: This should be a massive grieving and catharsis and bonding experience,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and instead they're just like who, Like they're so toxic?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Oh my god?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: What just because they're like we don't want to scare
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: the accepted, or like I'm not really sure what the
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: logic there is? What to just yeah, did you sweep
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: it under the rock and make it not a big
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: deal out of it?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It makes no sense. It's a traumatizing event. Everyone knows
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: that she died. She was people's friend, people looked up
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: to her. She dies, and your reaction is to pretend
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: you don't know who they're talking about. Like that is
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: not gonna help people. That's not good, that's not healthy.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: But that's what they do because they hate mental health.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Alida is off to be back in and Or as
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: the advisor.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yep, she takes off, gets out of everyone's hair for
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: a bit. Lolaine comes back into the picture and is
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: very nice to them.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: We see her and Swan having this history when we're
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: in Saladar, Right, Lolaine and her have a particular history
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: and it goes back to her reaching out to them
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and becoming friends with them at the beginning of their
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: tenure as Blue Sisters.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: We also see Adin Canford, who in one of the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: books she receives messages for Moraine sent to the White Tower.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so she's like the Blue ajas postmaster.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: So she's yeah, well, I think she's just Moraine's friend, right,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: as we know, she's like part of this friend group,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: and so Moraine just uses her as a trusted friend
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: to receive messages. And I think that this is sort
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: of you know, she's only really mentioned once, but this
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: is saying this is where that friendship came from, and
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: it's been a long friendship between them. Even though she's
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: basically only ever mentioned once more in the.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Series, it seems like she was Leanne's friend. And then
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: when Leanne picks up her friendship with Swan and Moraine
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: again and she's like, oh, and here's my buddy who
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I've met in the meantime, So yeah, that's cool, displayed
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: not a hint of arrogance despite being at Dorian Okay,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Kyrie An and Snobby Pritt.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: That's some good POV right in Jordan.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: And then the searchers leave, Milon Kararennie, Aisha, Ludis, and Valera.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: They all leave and there's no news, but they all leave,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: and everything's just going very slow. And this is the
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: part where we get that she removes all the lace
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: from her rooms, but Annaya is so disappointed about it
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: that she leaves the lace on her bed and that
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: makes Swan giggle. Swan likes the lace on the bed,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, because Swan has wrong opinions about
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: what's going on in your bed.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Speaking of she's having nightmares the Babe in the snow,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: the faceless Man, and the sun Throne. Yep, who's the
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: faceless man?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: The faces span on the sun throne.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: She's her nightmares continued of the babe in the snow
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: and the faceless man and the sun throne, Like those
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: are three different things.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she's just dreaming of the dragon reborn
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: as a grown up.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going with I was thinking murder all somehow.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, I think it's just random grown up.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: They both managed to make terrible pies, which is hilarious.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: One is inedible, the other one is like food poisoning.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: And then Shiriam passes her test, and she's a very
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: good cook, and Swad manages to get her pie because
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Shariam actually likes cooking and wants to make good food.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And I just think it's a cute little human dynamic
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: running through these you know, grad students basically, and.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: One would assume at this point Shuriam is not a
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: dark friend.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Correct If she's only just been raised as of the
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: pie maker, she's making the pie because she was just raised,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: then yeah, she's not black Auja yet. There's still time.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Don't do it, but I will point out. So they
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: talk about bringing her into the search.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's why I want to point out, and.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: How you know, it's really hard to talk her out
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: of it. And it's like, yeah, she's not a dark
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: friend yet, but she is a really big gossip. And
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I wonder if that's how she gets into
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: being black Aja is because she's just such a gossip
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: that she ends up getting more and more into the
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: like backstabby side of gossip and less just the fun
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: sharing of secrets. And because when she thinks about being
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: black Guja later she says, that's how you rise in
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: white tower politics, right right, Gossip into rumor into like
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: backstabby politicking. Right, there's a logical step wise thing there
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: where she just like joins the extra shitty sorority to
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: get a little farther and now she's a dark friend, right,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Like you kind of see that in Oh, she's such
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: a big gossip we can't trust her with the end
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: of the world because she just likes knowing things too much.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Sharing that she knows things too much. It's interesting. Maybe
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'm overreading into it, but I
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: want to try to see, like why did she become
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: black auja based on the fact that we know she
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: isn't here, Like where's the seed? Best I got is
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: the gossiping and just.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: That like that personality trait might be something that they
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: look for in recruits, right, like that sort of like
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: cruelty or you know, that might be one of those
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: key flags that got picked up on by the other
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: black odd job misters. So the Novice's right, there's so
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: many of them, I can't keep track, right right, right,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: we see Rema Galfree, who I believe is one of
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the women who get taken by the shan Chan.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, her her life won't get shitty for a while.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so they're doing good with getting a new
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: you know, pretending that Ella didn't die and having a
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: new sister get raised. And then Tamra died in her sleep.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Oh right, No, no, she didn't, Okay, point in order.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: She did not die in her sleep. She was tortured
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: by the Black Aja. They got all the information, all
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: the names of the people who left to search for
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: the dragon reborn out of her, but did not get
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Moraine and Suan's name.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: They did not get knowledge of their book, They did
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: not get knowledge of their lists, knowledge of their self
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: appointed mission. All of that was locked behind one tiny
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: scrap of defiance.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And I have to assume it was a technicality in
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: the oath, which was tell us about all the is
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Sidai who you've told about this plan, and they weren't
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: isidi at the time they were accepted.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: And Tamra, if she was a weak willed person who
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: was willing to throw people under the bus, could have
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: volunteered that information. But because she's a true blue and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Omorlin and just an upright woman with the heart of
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: you know, soul of iron, she was able to decide
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to volunteer that in hopes that it
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: makes the pain stop. I'm going to hold on to
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: that because the technical means that I can.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to so I can tell I can
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: she can say the truth. Those are all the ice
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: and Eye I told about this. There are no other
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: ice ad I who know anything about this. Although at
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: the time they had been raised so it would be
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: a little.
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: You know, but they weren't. She never gave them the charge.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: They were not iced to die when they got involved. Yeah,
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: they did not word the questions correctly, and that's what
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: saved Swana Moran was because they didn't ask the question
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: thoroughly enough.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: That not telling Scheriam because recruited she would eventually flipped
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: on them.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Man that the fact that Swan wanted to bring Shirim
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: in and it took Morain hours to talk her out
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: of it is just the world hinged on that hour's
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: long argument. Swan almost made the wrong call. And Rima's
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: not black Aja.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Right, No, no, no, I don't think so.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had it in my head for some reason
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: that the announcement came from a black Aja, so it
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: was extra ZESTI, but I that's that's not true. I've
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: just made that up. Apparently, I was expecting that. As
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I came up to the section, I was like, oh,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: but that's not one of the known black gotchas.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: No, she's pure. She gets you know, right exactly.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: She has a horrible fate, but it's not because she
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: made bad choices.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: She's a wrong place, wrong time type person that she
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: just happened to be in Falma when it got taken over.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, Mariene's first thought about this, well, technically
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: her very first thought is oh no, but her first
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: cogent thought is how does this affect me? And that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: makes her feel really bad. So she wears a dress
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: that makes her feel incredibly indecent and exposed and miserable
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: for the whole thing as this self imposed like penance thing,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: which is just such a princess move. She buys a
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: dress that she knows she's gonna hate because of this
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: whole drama with the same stress, and then she wears
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: it once to make everyone thinks that she's really weird,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: so that way she feels embarrassed, and then she.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Burns the entire dress, all that labor, just burns it
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: because it makes her fiefees feel funny.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Very princessive, say, rich people, shit.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Big rich people energy.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I little note that the whites wear black ribbons to
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: signal morning, because otherwise they would look like they're showing
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: off as part of their white uniform.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, for the white Aja, the color white is
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: not a color of morning. It's a normal AJA, respectful color.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: And black is the color of mourning. And that's weird.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: That's a weird one off Adja thing. Yeah, it's a
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: fun little inverse from our world where yeah, white is
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: for celebrations. Well that's actually not true. White is a
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: color of mourning in some other cultures, but in our culture,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: black is the color of morning. But it is a
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: color of morning in uh India, I want to say,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: probably elsewhere, Okay, Yeah, Marsapan's saying yes, it's the Western
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: world versus literally everyone else, because of course, of course,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: of course.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Uh And this is where we get the new Adja sorry,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the new Amerlin who is a bit of a task.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Master sierin Vayu, a red at heart who chose gray
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: for some inexplicable reason.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Red and gray clothing, probably for political reasons to get
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: up to the ambulance seat, that's my guess, because then
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: she could get support from both the Red and the Gray.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if she was going for
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the ambulance seat when she chose her AJA. I don't
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: know if she's quite that cynical.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I you've never met some career political kids. Man, they
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: can be cynical as hell about their choices in early life.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not who is said. I are as a class,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: they're not political kids like Isaid. I are not Nepo
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: babies as a class.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: So fair, we don't get a lot of necessarily more
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: detail about her. She rules for five years before she
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: is well, Chesmel convinces the Red AJA to kill her.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Funny enough, Yeah, because she's not black AJA. I think
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: she's just kind of caught between wanting to be a
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: hard ass in two different ways. And she picked the
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: legal route instead of being read AJA route because then
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: she could mess with more people, right, I think it's
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I just don't think this proves my long standing argument
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: that picking an AJA for your entire life, picking one
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: of seven bins to be and for your entire multi
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: century long career is dumb because people contain multitudes and
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: they change over time. And I think Sarah and Vayue
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: is a great example of that, because everyone's like, why
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: is she a gray if she's actually a red at heart,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: and it's like, well, you're stereotyping both the ajas. Clearly
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: something about the gray appealed to her very strongly, and
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: she was forced us with the difference. But she's really
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: read about her approach to men, right. She dismisses all
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the male clerks, all the male guards. She's not into
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: having men around at all. And then she's also not
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: into women having fun in any way, shape or form.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Small slights are turned into big problems. Women get exiled,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: women get strapped to medieval torture devices and tortured behind
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: us soundproof barrier, so that way only eyes to die.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I know that isaid I beat up other eyes to die.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: It's a very massive tone shift, and it kind of
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: reminds me of how Alida focuses the Tower on policing
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: itself rather than on helping the world. Right, Like, obviously
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: they're very different women, they have very different motivations, but
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: there's something about this kind of person that makes the
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: White Tower devour itself rather than be in service to
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the world. You know, I saw men as I posted
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: in chat that many Eastern indigenous cultures use white to
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: represent purity in the soul's release from the material world. Yeah, so,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know what about the misery of Europe made
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: us to side black was the color for death and
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: morning there it is. Oh And also the other thing
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: about this omrelin is that she chooses her own keeper
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: and mistress of novices and they're both red. Well, one
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: of them I believe is black, but they are both
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: publicly facing red.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Omrah is just red. Duhara is black.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Isn't she pretty high up in the black Aja hierarchy too? Oh? Yeah,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and religion said also in China too. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: She's the one that Alida sends to be an the Camlin,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: to be an advisor to Alida, who like walks in
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: all like arrogant to Elaine.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: To Elaine, yes when she's doing her yeah for the throne. Right,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: So she's well trusted and liked by Alida, at least,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I mean to the extent that Alida trust and likes
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: anybody which is not high.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: But nothing about her being high up in the Okay.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: She just does stuff in the plot later that makes
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: her a relevant antagonist so yeah, she's presumably a black
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: AJA at this point and is installed, I mean to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: some extent here and picked her, but to some extent
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: she's also being installed. Keep an eye on the Omelin,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I would think, I.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Mean, you can basically assume that a keeper is black, right,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: It's shocking that Lelne isn't black, right, yeah? Right, Like,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: oh my goodness. They keep slipping them in over and
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: over and over again.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and who knows why Sierra picked her. Presumably because
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: she wanted to have you know, strong, aggressive women who
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: had red values in her space, so that way she
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: could you know, be the Oddia she really wanted to be.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: But I can't believe that the black AJA didn't have
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: a hand in placing her after killing the previous Amuln
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and getting this one in place, right, Like.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one would assume that they have ways of influencing
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: what an Omelin is thinking.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: And it makes me think that part of why she
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: chose two reds is to hide the fact that she
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: had to choose this black auja. Not that I think
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: she is black, but I think she was influenced to
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: choose a black even though it didn't match her chosen Adja, Right, right.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of parallels with Alida, specifically right, choosing
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: a keeper who's not of your adja, having someone with
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: a really strong pride in the red Auja in that office.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of bits and pieces of what happens
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: with Alida just range slightly differently. So, Yeah, Moraine goes
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: to Sierra and says, can I please be released from
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: doing clerical work? And Sierra's responses, Yeah, I wish we
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: could get rid of the bounty, but you know, for
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: pr reasons, we won't. Also sit your ass down. You
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: don't get to leave. You can stop doing bureaucratic stuff.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: That's fine if you want to not do the clerical stuff,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: but you do not get to leave because we are
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: using you for plots. She's very naked about it, and
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that gives Morain the permission she needs to cut loose.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't see how that's any different than
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: just leaving without that permission. But okay, whatever, No.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: It's not permission in that sense. It's in Morain's mind.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: She was waiting for something to break, to tell her
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: now is the time. This is that, this is a sign.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: It's not permission. This is her sign to get out.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: It is explicitly not permission. It is explicitly do not leave.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: She goes into disobedience to the omlin, but she takes
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: this as her sign to get out.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And she somehow technically into I'm not allowed to cross
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: a bridge, and so I'll take a boat instead, and
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: that doesn't count as leaving, even though she's told explicitly
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: to stay. I don't understand how she's able to, like
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: I sidye her way around that.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Because it's just a lie to talk to someone she
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: doesn't promise not to leave. So this is just about
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: her ability to say to another eyes to die with
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: a wink and a nod, good thing. I don't plan
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: to leave over a bridge, because she will be stopped
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: if she tries to go over a bridge. And they said,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I says, you know you're gonna get stopped if you
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: try to go over a bridge, and Marien says, hey,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: good thing, I'm not planning on going over a bridge,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: because I am also Matt's spiritual mother. And that is
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: what Matt does. Right when he is unable to leave
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: over a bridge, he manages to hop his way onto
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: a boat, and that's how he gets something. That's what
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Mariene does too. She uses the word play to not
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: arouse anyone's suspicions, but she never made a promise not
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: to cross a bridge. It's not like that sort of
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: a loophole.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: So she's got enough money to essentially buy anything she needs.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: She goes to the bank, picks up a bunch of money,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: goes to the seamstress, picks up a bunch of clothes,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: and then grabs a boat and bails on out of there,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: but with much less drama than Matt.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: There's no lucky Night, there's no footpads, there's no leaping
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: the gap as the boat pulls away from the dock.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: It's all very orderly, but it is just a few
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: steps ahead of that Kyrie and assassin dude, who had
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: tried to get to her bank account, and who is
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: not trying to get to her for Kyrie in reasons.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: He's trying to get to her for Black Auja reasons.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: We think she thinks it's about Kyrie and plot stuff,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: though I don't know.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's just a Kyrieanne in plot stuff. I
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: think he might just be a coincidence because she later
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: attributes the attacks, the Black Aja attacks to him, which
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: means I think they're not right. So I think he's
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: just Kyrieen and I don't think we like she leaves
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: them on the dock, and I don't think she ever
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: sees him again. Gorthanis is his name Kyrie in a
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: man because like this is the last time we actually
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: see him in the.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Book, okay, but he is a smoke screen for all
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the actual black Auja of Shenanigan's Dark Friend Shenanigans because
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, it's just Kyrie and stuff and it
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: probably was him, was just Kyrienne stuff, but the black
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Aja Dark Frienderie is not him or Kyrieenne and stuff.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: And then there's there's multiple times throughout the rest of
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: the book where Moraine's thinking, oh my god, that Canadrin
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Canadron one of the later tries to kill her and
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: he tells Moraine he was hired, but he doesn't tell
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: by who, and she thinks it must be growth Onis, right,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: and like you know, she worries later that she reveals
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: her presence, he'll know about her presence, like, so she
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: thinks about him multiple times, but he never appears again,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: so one thinks that he's just this red herring on
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: where the attacks come from.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool, And yeah, she sails out of the chapter
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: into an adventure as grand as any of her undertaken
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: by Eyes to Die. She's just so the boys and
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Igwayne leaving the two Rivers. It's just so that energy
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: all over again. And I love it.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Because, Yeah, I mean, if she's been in the White
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Tower since she was fourteen, she probably didn't have much
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: of a chance to you know, go adventuring before she
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: was fourteen, and then she's been a novice in a
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: accepted the rest of the time, where like an ad
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: forbidden to leave the city. So now for the first
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: time as an adult, she's going out into the world.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: To save the world.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Just a little bit.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Small mission for her first trip to you know, after college. Yeah,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: that's the end of my notes for chapter fourteen. So
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Chapter fifteen has another symbol that I don't think we
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: see very often. This is a stag with a hell
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: of a rack and it's called into ken lwam nice rack.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: It's a very nice rack.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Let's see the red stag varin in can Loon. So
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: this is just for this one, dude.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, I was wondering about that. Is this just the
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: one time, all right, And.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, yes, this is the
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: only chapter in which this chapter icon gets used. Funny,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: they give us some new chapter icons that just did
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: get totally abandoned.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this first line of this chapter includes the
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: title of the book, the Air of Candor held the
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: sharpness of new spring when Land returned.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Because we've we've had a time jump, right, it's what
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: three months later.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: One month, some number of months, whatever the travel time was.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Land said it was going to be a month, but
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: then Bukama wanted it to be longer.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I think a month for them. But this is about
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: three months since Moraine left Tarvallin, right, because we've been
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: jumping around in time a little bit between the two timelines.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Right, So on her perspective, it said that the Feast
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: of Lights happened right Christmas Beast of Lights, and now
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: he's mentioning the coming bell tie in dances, so yeah,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: that's the beginning of spring. So, yes, we have shifted
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: three months in the timeline because yeah, these are not
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: perfectly lined up. So he's been on the road for
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: a month, but Moraine has been on the road for
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: three months as of this point.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: I guess I should read a sin. The air of
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Candor held the sharpness of new spring. When Land returned
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: to the lands where he had always known he would
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: die long past the arrival of spring in more southerly lands.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Here trees bore the first red of new growth, and
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: a few scattered wildflowers dotted winter brown grass, where shadows
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: did not cling to patches of snow. Yet the pale
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: sun offered little warmth. After the south, gray clouds hinted
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: at more than rain, and a cold, gusting breeze cut
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: through his coat. Perhaps the South had softened him more
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: than he knew. A pity. If so, he was almost
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: home almost.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I just checked the beginning of the next chapter for
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: next week's reading.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: It.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, Marine does say she's been on the road for
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: three months as she rolls up into Candor. Nice nice Yes,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: So yeah, back to brooding with Land in cold weather.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: In the borderlands. This is just like a lot, like Land.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: But also you can see the youngness in him. I
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: like the way Robert Jordan writes the youngness into these
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: characters and the inexperience.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: He's such a like edge lord, he's emo, like oh
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: my god.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: He's just this rule follower and kid who like has
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: never done anything outside his culture that he was raised
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: inside of. He's on his room springer.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: He's like never had fun, Like apparently he knows how
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: to fuck in bed, He's traveled the world, but he's
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: never had fun. He's just angry about everything.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: He knows how a fuck because the Boukama took him
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: to a guy damn brothel and said here, fuck these women.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: No, it's because he got raped by a woman twice his.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Age for ye whatever, Yeah, that's right.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: I wish that Bookama had taken into a brothel and
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: gotten him like a group sex experience. That would have
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: been way healthier than what did happen. Rumor even spoke
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: of a man who's handled the power, but then Rumor
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: often did that can't be anyone who's relevant in the
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: modern day. Even if the wildest extremes of Taime doing
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: his thing, it can't be him because we're twenty years Yeah.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: So my guess is that the Black Aja is hunting
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: for They don't know how old the Dragonryborn is, so
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: they're hunting for someone who's channeling and lucky, right, So
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: they're killing off lucky people and so they're looking for
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: someone who can channel, and that's turning into rumors of
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: someone who can channel.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: If there's smoke, there's fire kind of logic.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Right, right, If someone's looking for someone who's can channel,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: then there must be someone who can channel. That's kind
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: of where I'm assuming that rumor's coming from.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Given how vague of a rumor this is. That that tracks.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he also says that the isaid I are
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: everywhere since the last Ambuln's death, and we just have
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: to assume that's black Aja swarming around looking for candidates
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: because nobody.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Else knows bounty stuff right.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Some but like the bounty stuff mostly seems to be
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: people coming and going. I think that's not really gone
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: up to the borderlands because they were just looking for
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: people locally in that around Dragon Mount. They're not going
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: up to the borderlands.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: To look for well, they're going to the borderlands. If
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: the women went back home to the borderlands without receipt.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure, sure, that's possibly some of it.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean it's got to be both right,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: like to make for such a huge flurry, because again,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: there's not that many eyes to die, so right, right,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: So Bakama's grumbling aggressively grumble, grumble, grumble, And then they
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: end up here and he shagsy inkeeper. It's great.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: She doesn't really give much of a choice because again,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: this is this is borderland race relations, gender relations, where
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: women really do have final say in who they get
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: to sleep with, and Lands very much of that passive
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever you say, ma'am, right.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Run like West Bukama, Yeah right, he apparently left this
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: woman six years ago. But I mean he's just grouchy
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: for like pages, right, he like almost gets into a
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: fight on the at the gate guard, like with the
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: gate guards and like promises not to use his sword
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: as like an apology. Like he's just such a ticking
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: time bomb. Like when we saw him before, he's like,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: let's relax and chill out. And now we're seeing him
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: here and he is just like picking fights with everyone
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: and everything.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Is it him or is it Boukama picking the fights Bokama? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, Sorry.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I thought you're implying Land was the one picking the fights.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: No, No, Land's having to deal with Boukama being like that.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Oh right. And when they're also on the gate you're
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: going into the city. They this young kid is like,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I stand ready and Bukamas I stand ready for what
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: this is why Land has to go face his rapist,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: I mean carnai Era is because she started rumors that
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: the Golden Crane is getting raised and everyone's getting excited about.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: And you know who that kid is, by the way,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: is that Bulin?
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: No, it's the Candori prince. No, no, I don't know
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: who it is.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: It is on there. He's a guard in the town
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: of colum and Candor.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: You know, is he one of another one of those
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: guys that shows.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Up and air Nazir and rack him join Land and
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Bulan on the plane of Lances in Towers of Midnight
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: chapter seven, Yeah, he's one of those who sort of
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: is joining the charge against Malkire and says, I remember you,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: you you scolded me about He basically recounts this incident
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: when he meets Land.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Nice. Nice, Okay, cool? But yeah, so we get this
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: sense of like what the borderlands are like with they're
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: trying to keep out the Elis and everyone knows Land
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: and yeah, but Kama promises not to draw his sword. Basically,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: peace bonds it verbally.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just a lot of Malkier culture stuff, right, I
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: feel like.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: That's well, it's Candor Borderlands, but there's a lot of
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Malchiri refugees, right, it's that right melting pot thing.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: But because it's from Land's pov, we're getting his sort
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: of take on the culture and like what norm is
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: in like what's rude and what people the people who
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: aren't wearing the can the hedori anymore and the women
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: who aren't wearing the cai sine and like he's really
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: judging the people for not following the ways of the
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: male here.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's judging them for like bowing to
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: mere fashion athletting women have face veils.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Although the idea of a mardraal and drag is quite funny.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm down. I want to see it. I
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: want to see it. We also get some really interesting
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: thoughts here from him about warders. The hadari could be
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: enough to attract the interests of his sister seeking a warder.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Supposedly they asked before bonding a man, but he knew
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: several who had taken that bond, and every time it
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: had come as a surprise. Who would give up his
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: freedom to trot as an isodize heels unless there was
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: more to it than asking you do. And I think
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: it's so interesting because he never seems to be aware
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: that there's a magical aspect to it or know any
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: of the benefits. He just he treats it though it's
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: just a verbal command to obey. And then Moraine slaps
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: a complete bond on him that gives them like you know,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: emotional telepathy, and he never comments on it. But I
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: think it's a little weird here how he thinks, oh, yeah,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: there's more to it that I don't know about, and
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: then he doesn't get mad at her when it turns
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: out there's more to it. She never explains it to him.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: She never tells him it will make you a better warrior,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: like I just he points out the problem here, but
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: then that ends up being an unfinished thread.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: I think that it's just the details don't matter to
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: him at that point, where he's like, okay, I accept
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: the bond, whatever that happens to be, and then he
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: only learns about it more later once he's bonded.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: But he's not mad about it because now he knows
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: he's on the Save of the World mission, so any
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: cost is acceptable.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: That's yeah, kind of with lan.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: God that man is way too stoic for his own good.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's also this mention of murders in
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: the street this last month and strange accidents. I think
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: again that's Black Auja killing lucky quote unquote men.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Again, we are three months out from the Black Aja
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: getting the information that lucky men need to be killed.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: So then we see Nazar. Is that the same Nazar?
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Probably you?
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, Nazari Kuranan.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: So all of those guys that we see as old
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: men that Land recognizes, we're seeing all of them here.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Cool cool cool. Yeah, And then Land thinks about how
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: hard it is to deal with being a celebrity basically,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: and how he doesn't want to go to the Lord's
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: palace to get a warm welcome. He doesn't want that.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: He wants to just go find an inn and be anonymous.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they do. Guess they don't even get to
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: the end this chapter. I guess that's the next chapter.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: This chapter went by really fast. It was very little here.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: It's just Bookama and Land walking.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Into the It's a short chapter.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, seeing a bunch of people to get angry at,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: like that's the entire chapter. Okay, all right, so the
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: next chapter is We're actually the most of the interesting
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: stuff that I already mentioned happens chapter sixteen, the Deeps.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: It just picks up exactly where they were and they
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: the symbol is I think this is a symbol. We
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: get this is helmet, this is lance helmet. We see
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: this one many other all the time.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, tough, Yes, this is Let me just
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: do a quick Oh no, it's only in New Spring.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Really three chapters of New Spring chapter one, sixteen, and
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: twenty five, but that's as far as I can tell,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: the only chapters it's in interesting.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, they're trying to find an end to sleep in,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: and Land, by coincidence, happens to decide to check for
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Realsya's on an inn where Bokama happens to have baggage
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: with the innkeeper and that gets them a room. Well,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: it gets Land a room and Bocoma space at the
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: foot of her bed, but.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Uh Land gets the war horse a few other times,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: so he has two symbols ooh.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Isn't he fancy? And then while Bukama is being off
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: to make out with his ex girlfriend, dark friend alert
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: En Venomar shows up Land's oldest friend aside from Bukama,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: his only age relevant age cohort friend, the one person
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: he might not feel nihilistic towards, and it's a dark
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: friend who's going to betray him and try to kill
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: more in.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: This is very James Bond to me. When the other
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: agent turns out to be like, you know, working for
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Blofeld or whatever, right, like best friends forever trusted each
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: other's life many times, turns out he's turned to the
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: bad guy, like that level of and then Land's facing
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: someone who's essentially his own level of skill. You know.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: They talk about like how they're pretty close to terms
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: of like knows all the secrets and yeah, totally, but
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: he knows all of all of his right and so
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: they're able to sort of hurt each other the worst
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: because they know each other the best, right that level
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: of betrayal, and then of course that leaves him with
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: this you know, his by the end of the book,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: his father figure is dead and his best friend has
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: betrayed him, and that leaves him open to this connect
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: with Moraine that he otherwise you know, wouldn't take because
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: he has connected ties to these other people in this
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: other life.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the few people that he cared about are dead
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: by the end of the book, and one of them
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: died actively betraying him and trying to kill.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Him, right right, So there's this like transfer of trust
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: almost to Moraine.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so yeah, Land tries to say no to
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: an invitation to sleep with a barmaid, which turns into
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: him being unable to say no without dishonor, which I
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: just find incredibly confusing and toxic and not ideal for anybody.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: That's not how no is supposed to work. Oh, I'm
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: so coy that no means yes, Like what words need
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to mean what they mean? And I also don't get
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: the whole concept of like flirting with women is the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: same thing as taking them to bed, Like you're allowed
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: to strike up a conversation with a woman without it
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: necessarily leading to sex, you know, like his his respective
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: women is kind of inselly, like women are only sexual
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: and romantic objects. They can't to be Peele and.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: I always get Raquel, And isn't Rochelle like Oliver's babysitter.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Isn't that also Zel Rozelle? Yeah, Like very similar names,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: very similar sort of personalities, which are these like kind
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: of sexy women and inns.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Don't you know all bartenders are actually really eager to
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: sleep with you. They're not just doing their job. They're
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: actually particularly interested in sleeping with you. The customer they're
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: talking to right now knew it.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: God damn, I should have acted on those impulses more. Uh.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, they're just doing their jobs, not flirting with them.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: But apparently this one really wants to sleep with land And.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Unless they actually give you their number, in that case,
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: they are flirting back. It can't happen. Yes, yes, yes,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: but don't assume, and they're probably it's not gonna happen
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: to you. Don't worry. It's if you're listening to the podcast.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: It's not happening to you. You're fine.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: It might never say never.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Odds are. Odds are even if you're a very attractive person.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I just yeah, I don't think that's how most people
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: want to do their flirting, because they are trying to
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: get to the end of their shift.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly. I always well, this is the funny thing,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: So I always say that, and then my wife never
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: is like, well, I was working at a restaurant and
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: I know if you came in, I absolutely would have
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: flirted with you and given you my number, and I
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: was like, but I never would have responded to that.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: She's like, I would have made sure you responded, and
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, I don't know if
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: you could have get gotten me.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Like the oblivious this is strong with the yeah.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Like I'm really pretty good at being Oblivia is like,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: you definitely only succeeded in flirting with me because of
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: the situation we were in where I didn't have much of.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: A choice, Thank you COVID.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but no, I do wonder about that. That's
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: something we talk about where she insists that she would
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: have flirted with me enough that I would have flirted back,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: and I'm just like, I don't I don't know if
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: there's any level at which I would have made that
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: assumption but had to.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Use like the elementary school. Do you like me? Yes?
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: No?
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: But right she is doing both sides of the conversation.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: I like you, check.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here do you like me? And then puts it down,
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: holds my hand writes the other check in with my hand. Anyway,
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: it makes me wonder if he's like honestly, it kind
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: of makes me reminds me of Roxanne, like Rochelle Rousselle Roxanne, Right.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: I wonder if he's doing some reference there, that's all.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's what sorted this whole conversation.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: So the next thing I have is that Reen says, oh, yeah,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: the guy that I was doing merchant caravan stuff for,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: he was really lucky and then someone killed him and
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: that's a real shame. Looks like I have to find
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: new employment now. And I'm like, someone killed him.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Huh someone you dark friend?
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or man that I know is a dark friend,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: and you know that this guy was really lucky, So
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: you definitely got a secret dark friend. Note that said, yeah,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: that employer you've been enjoying working for because he's kind
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: of lucky, slid his throat and make it look like
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: a robbery and he did. That's my head canon.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent agree. That's that was my head
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: canon before we even talked about it. So when we
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: arrive at the same head canon independently, it's pretty much
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: guaranteed it's a Jordan intention. Yeah. One of my favorite
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: little audio snippets of Robert Jordan is when he says
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: he listens to the audiobooks because that helps him tell
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: whether he was being obvious enough about his clues, because
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: sometimes he's not. And I'm like you and I I
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: think are catch a lot of the clues that he
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: thinks weren't obvious enough because we do overanalyze these. But
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I do think that like, yeah, we catch some of
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: the ones that otherwise he thought were very obvious and
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: or not.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, in fairness, you know, most people only read
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: these books once or twice.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: I there's a shocking number of people who cannot stop rereading.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Though it's true, it's true they're all our friends.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they may be overrepresented in my social sampling, but
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: also like they're outside of people I've met through the podcasts,
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: there are people in real life where I've met who
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: do love reading these books over and over again. It's
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: not just us nerds. There are some, especially some military
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: people I've noticed, right, because it's.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: The whole I can only take so many books, so
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: I'll take the fattest one I can sort of thing, right, So, yeah,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Rain brings up the woman lands Karnaiira. Lady Errol, He's
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: the one that brings it up and says, oh, didn't
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: you know that she's raised the Golden Crane Because she're
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: dead supposedly, right, because Land's you know, learning that he's
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: supposed to be dead according to rumor.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: So how is she raising the Golden crane if he's
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: supposed to be dead? Does she likes saying in your
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: name in yours? Okay? Right? Whatever?
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she is going to do because Land's a symbol.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Land's a martyr. Lands a thing she can tie on
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: a stick and wave above the crowds. Right, And this
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: is you know, posited as you know, this is Moraine
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: has reason to think that people are assassining her the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: kyrieene and thing. Land has a reason to think people
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: are trying assassinate him because of this golden crane thing.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: He has this whole question of, oh is my death
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: actually necessary politically?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Is that why I'm being targeted? And we of course
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: know it's because he's lucky and the dark friend thing, right,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Both of them have a red herring reason to believe
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: that they're being targeted for assassination that covers up the
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: actual reason totally.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: And it's such a stupid reason too, the like, well,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: if you're lucky, you could be an early channeler, so
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: therefore you must die. But it's like rumors of luck.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: How you prove someone's lucky, you don't you try and
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: kill them. If they survive, they're lucky, he calls them. Yeah.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: It's like uh yeah, I mean it's got the same
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: kind of logic of like if you throw a tied
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: up woman into a lake and she floats, then she's
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: a witch. And if she drowns, then she was not
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: a witch. And if she's a witch, then you should
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: burn her. So either way, she's.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Dead dead, right, And that seems to be what happens
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: with Land here where they orchestrate this attack on him
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: to find out if he's lucky, and if he survives it, well,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: then he's lucky and he needs to be killed. It's
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: just like, wait, so he's dead either way.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Dark friends just like killing. They really do. They'll do
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: whatever brain pretzels they got to do to justify another murder.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: And not all Dark Friends are murder hungry. Like Sureiam
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: was never murdered hungry. She just wanted to climb the ladder.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: She wanted more power, but she didn't want to kill
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: people to do it, but she was willing to kill
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: people to do it.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: True, So yeah, Land has like an immediate trauma response
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: to the mention of this lady because he then hears
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: birds singing and is like, oh, yeah, those birds were
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: first singing the first time that this lady approached me
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: for sex. And he just wanders off and does not
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: talk to his friends anymore. It's like, he's clearly very
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: upset and it can't all just be the political implications.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: There is a deep emotional reaction as well, and so yeah,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: he goes out to the stables and paces until stable
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: people are like, eh, run away. And then he takes
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: out his ring, the ring that he's going to someday
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: use as an engagement ring with Ninive, and he looks
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: at it and thinks very like grouchy thoughts that have
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with theultimately using it as an engagement
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: ring to his future wife.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Right, because he's got the four things, He's got the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: lockett with his parents. Do we ever see that locket again?
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I can't remember.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think we do. I'm assuming that it gets
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: lost or ruined somewhere between here and the start of
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Eye of the World.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: I think it might get ruined in this book. I
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: When she throws him into the pond, does she ruin
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: his locket is it more Rain's fault?
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: That would be pretty funny. But I want it to
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: be destroyed in the final fight for some reason. I
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: don't know why. That's in my mind as something that happens,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: but probably not, Yeah.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Because I don't recall that from the main No, I
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: don't either.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want that to be a thing, you know,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: the ring. We talked about the sword, which is of
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: course right like the sword, and then his oath, which
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: is that really a thing? I guess it's a.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Thing he has decided it's a thing, so it's a
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: thing he thinks about his whole He never leads men
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: into the blight. Sometimes men will ride with him, but
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: he will never.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: Lead, which, as we're weird, since we're doing this in
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Betweens Gonna Chaine, Towers of mid Night, in the Memory
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: of Light, we just saw him leading all those people
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: into a death charge, which is exactly what he didn't
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: want to do.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Well, we saw him accept it. We saw Ninieve use
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the ring, do what Aiden was unable to do, make
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: it happen, and we saw him say, actually say the
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: sentence the Golden Crane flies. But here he is saying
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: the golden crane will never fucking fly. And yeah, then
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: we think about the tradition of the Karna era, a
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: thousand years of tradition. He had been fifteen aiden more
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: than twice that when she just decided that she was
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: going to take his virginity and make him her arm candy.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: For like what a year, Yeah, something like that.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: Half a year, half a year, which only ended because
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: his uncles made him a full man with the sword
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: and everything, and then he decided to go off and
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: be a soldier. Like the whole situation is very weird.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: But again, he was fifteen, she was more than twice that.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: She was in her thirties. I'm assuming she was not
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: in her forties. I'm assuming more than twice. That means
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: like twice that and change, you know, in her.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Thirties, less than three times that.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I think that's safe to say. She was
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: under forty five, somewhere between thirty and forty five.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: And then he immediately, you know, goes into the flame
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: and the void the code. After thinking about that.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: This association, do you think about your emotions? Take all
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: those emotions and just burn them away. We can't be
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: having an emotional reaction to being you know, assaulted repeatedly,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: that that would be weird. And no, he's not traumatized.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: He's just drawn to the play. It's it's just the like,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: it's just the conflict of interest. It's not actually that
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: he didn't want to get banged by a woman twice
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: his age.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: No, now he seeks death.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just because of that oath, not because of having
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: his you know, autonomy and personal space violated by someone
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: old enough to be his parent.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Mm. Couldn't become a nihilistic because of that. Nah, No,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: and no reason that would be mentioned here. No, no, No,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: it's like looking at it there like, oh my god. Yeah,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: it's obvious that he's he's feeling a certain way about life. Yeah,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: and trauma.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been ten years since that happened, and he
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: is still like very immediately upset by mention of her name. Yeah,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: Bouji RJ made a straight version of the Greeks for sure,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: that that whole thing. But it's cool because it's women
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: having control and consent, and that means that it's fine
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: because men don't need control and consent. That's just for women.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Gross.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: Also remember in the Malchyri tradition, the young girl gets
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: to decide which old man she's going to bang. Right,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: the young girl will be banging an old man, like
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: that's so soon, But at least she gets to choose
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: which old man it's going to be. And by old,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: I just mean you know, twice and change her age
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: not necessarily like old old, but same deal. Right, Like
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: her daughter goes to land and says, I want you
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: to be my first lover, and it's like, that's just no,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: you're far too young for him. That's that's nasty. And granted, yes,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: ninive is even younger, but Niniva is at least an
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: adult when she decides to fall in love with him,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: you know, like, yes, they have a big age gap,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: but Ninivea is at least like not a literal teenager
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: when she makes that choice.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: That's my defense.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, age gaps are fine when both parties are sufficiently
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: aged up. You know, the huge age gap when the
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: younger party is like a properly cooked adult is like
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: all right, whatever, people do what they want to do.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, age gaps are fine. We're like, oh, you know,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: you're like you're you know, twenty five and you know forty.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Now that's a pretty big age gap, and which is
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: fine until you go how long have you been dating?
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: And if they say anything more than a year or
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: two or you know, whatever, the wait, how old did
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: I make her? Twenty five? If I make it, If
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: it's more than seven years, you have to worry, right, Like,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: that's the point where you start to go, oh, oh,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: that's too much. Yeah, even anywhere close to seven years?
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, exactly exactly.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: So that's that's I think where some of the hesitation
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: around age gap comes from is where you're like, well,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: I mean at your current age, that's fine, but how
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: long have you been dating? Right?
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know. Maybe forgetting the Malchyri traditions
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: and letting those go out of style would be a
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: good thing. Maybe bringing Malchyri traditions back is not always
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: inherent good.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: I do think it's an interesting way to sort of
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: make the culture of Malkiere very foreign to us. There's
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: this like respecting woman culture that the two Rivers has,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: but there's something almost fanatical to it where the two
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Rivers would never put up with that kind of like
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: control of a woman over a man. The men would
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: be like, no, I don't respect you, that much.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: I think. Also, maybe it's like part of the urban
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: versus rural thing, right, like the Malchiyri.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Like that's a very city level.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: It's presented to us as like what the lords and
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: ladies and the ability and the high class people of
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: the drinkers. The Two Rivers is an agrarian community where
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: everyone has to work.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Al Thor is clearly a noble name,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: so he must be the king.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: But like in that sort of agrarian system system, everyone
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: has to put in physical labor, Like no one can
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: be on top just lounging around directing armies. There are
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: no armies to direct, So yeah, you just can't be
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: as weird about it.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: I guess do you want to talk about the battle
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: at all?
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Bukama comes out and tries to talk to
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Lan about all of it. Land gets grouchy, and then
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: an assassination attempt rolls up and Land has to go
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: from fighting with Bukama to fighting for Bukama in very
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: short order.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: Does feel a little bit like a drive by you know,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: just this, like wait, what he's just standing outside? How
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: did they know to go after him? Then?
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: Well, because the Dark Friends are coming for him, and
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: also like Rain just showed up and tapped in and
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: was like, hey, you're still lucky with women. Let me,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: uh just go take a call out back real quick.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: You know, wow, you're super lucky.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's literally what happens. He shows up, says, oh,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: you still have uncanny luck with women, and then immediately
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: six men show up and try to kill him, like yeah,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: come on.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: Well, and also his luck in surviving like the fall
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: of Malchire, right, you could go back to be like, oh, yeah,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: his life has been very lucky.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, but this was a check in for like
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: right now, like the timing of this is just right there.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: And Boukama, remember, can't use his sword because he promised
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: that he wouldn't and his promise matters more than his life.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: So he has to watch Land, the little baby that
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: he protected with his life, go into a suicide fight
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: to protect him, the man who tried to die for
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: him a bajillion times over the last twenty years, right, Like,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: Boukama has to calmly walk into the barn and protect
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: himself because Land gave him an order and Land might
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: very well die protecting him. And he's like, I'm an
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: old man, I tried to protect you and he has
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: to just go sit in a barn because his word
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: is so important.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: He's also not caring a sword, so you know, well
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: that too.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: That Yeah, and he's not quite naile. His hands and
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: feet are dangerous, but uh, he's not nail. Yeah, I blinded. Well,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: apparently Demondred never heard about this fight. Otherwise he would
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: have been smarter about when Land rolled up and was like, bitch,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill you. Land comes up and is like, so,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: you know how you just defeated two swordsmen, I've defeated six.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: But also that was twenty years ago. I don't know
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: Demandred should have heard about this fight.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but Land has only gotten better at fighting, not worse.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: Is that realistic to spend twenty years getting your body
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: absolutely hammered by all of this activity and stuff and
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: to actually not have like arthritis be slowing you down
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: after twenty years.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, but for two reasons. One he is on the
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: outer edge of what's possible, right, but he's inside of that.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: And two he's got I said I healing, and I said,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: I order bonded strength all of what you're gonna make
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: those things.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true water. Yeah, the order bond, Yeah, yeah,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: that's fair.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: And so that just then he was training. You know, Oh,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: if you sprain something, heal it right, like Marie, You're
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: not gonna have to worry about it. And yet the
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: worder bond means you can train harder and longer than
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: anybody else. So yeah, I think it's totally reasonable for
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: someone like that to continue to train for that amount
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: of time, because we do see athletes in there, like
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: you know, early forties who still perform at a professional level.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: I won't say as good as they were, but they
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: still perform at a professional level.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't know, being a soldier in a
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: bodyguard is way harder on the body than being a
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: professional athlete. I think.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It's probably a lot of training with
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: only a few moments of terror in between. Whereas I
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: feel like being a professional athlete, like you know, the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: games happen frequently enough where you do actually you take
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: some damage, you can hurt yourself, and that one injury
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: takes you out right, But with I said, I healing,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: you're right back in the game.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So yeah, Lan thinks about how only in
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: stories is this possible, and then because it's a story,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: it's possible.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does feel like a little nod. They're just like, oh, yeah,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: this is ridiculous, but I'm doing it anyway because it's lamb.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: And Lan is super deep in the meditation, right, It's
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: almost like he's on the edge of being able to channel,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: but I think that he doesn't. He's he's not actually
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: a potential channeler. He doesn't get no fuld association and
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: exactly exactly comparing this to a lot, I'm like, Okay,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: this is what a non channeler's experience of the depths
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: of this meditation looks like. This is what someone who
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the ability to channel experiences when they do
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: every other mental step. This is what that looks like.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: And also Land's kind of the badass.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, he's a super bad ass.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: So they decide he has to basically confront the army
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: and you know this golden crane falls, golden crane that's
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: been raised, so they're headed to John Chin.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he wants to avoid it, nearly gets taken out
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: by six assassins and decides that actually, you're going to
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: have to face that directly instead of running away.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: From it because he thinks that the assassins were being
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: sent by this woman Aidelein Aiden Iden, Yeah, Aiden.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah. He's the only way to keep this from continuing,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: as he thinks it is to go tell her to stop, right.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: He thinks that she's going to keep coming after him
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: unless he deals with it. And you know that's not
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: what's happening, but it motivates him to get into Moraine's way.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: That's what counts.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: They are on a collision course.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he thinks that facing the blight his literal
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: death would be easier than facing his former rapist lover.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: And next week we do a three month jump with
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: Moraine and so that they're on the same timeline again and.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: We will get to bring them together. Do we get
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: to bring them together next week?
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: Pretty sure by the time we get done let's see.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, we get to do pond Water next week.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: So yeah, excellent. Over halfway through the book in Morena
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: and Land are almost meeting, and we.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: Get to hang out with Cod's Wayne and suspect her
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: of being black. Yeah, because that's still not clear in
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: the book series at the time this was published.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: It's a good red herring kept me strung along. My
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: blade had full describing lance training regime. Well, see, there's
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: this evil guy that made these super aggressive monsters, and
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: they attacked me with giant poison blades every day, and
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: the plants also try to kill me. That's lance training regime.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Wait, so Land is just Mario, but he.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: Doesn't eat mushrooms because he's a very straight list, non
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: interesting person, So he would never eat the mushrooms.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: No, I don't believe.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: You, not until Ninive shows that some mushrooms eating.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: I cannot believe they didn't get freaky in the forest
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: at least once with some mushrooms.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you would think that the Malchiri would have some
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: like go out in the woods, build a big bonfire
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: and take a handful of shrooms kind of ceremonies. It
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: seems like that'd be a kind of like earthy old
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: time I mean Malchiri thing to do.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: I agreed. Yeah, And on that note, I think that's
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: the end of the three chapters we're going to cover today.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: It is, it is. There's a riata if you want,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: but yeah, that's all of my g.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: I can do a read out. He spread his hands
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: at the looks Land and Bukama shot him. I make
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: no accusations, he said hastily. I'd never accused the lady
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: Eden of any such thing. I'm sure she is full
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: of all a woman's tender mercy. Mistress Rovini gave a grunt,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: hard as a fist, and Lerah murmured half under her
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: breath that the pretty arafella knew little about women. Land
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: shook his head, not in denial. Eden might decide to
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: have him killed if it suited her purposes. She might
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: have left orders here and there in case the rumors
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: about him proved false. But if she had, that was
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: still no reason to speak her name in connection with this,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: especially in front of strangers. Boukama's hands stilled, holding open
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: a slash down land sleeve. Where do we go from here?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: He asked quietly, Cha Chin Land. After a moment, there
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: was always a choice, but sometimes every choice was grim.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: You'll have to leave, sun Lance, I mean to depart
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: at first light tomorrow. His gold would stretch to a
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: newmount for the man. Six Rain growled, sheathing his sword
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: with considerable force. I think I'll ride with you. I'd
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: as soon not go back to show Arbella until I'm
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: sure Seline Norman doesn't lay her husband's death at my boots,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: and it will be good to see see the golden
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: crane flying again. Land nodded to put his hand on
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: the banner and abandon what he had promised himself all
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: those years ago, or to stop her if he could.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: Either way, he had to face Eden. The blight would
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: have been so much easier. And so yeah, him being
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: pulled off his quest to confront someone using his reputation
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: in a way he doesn't approve. Yeah, and Rain, I
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: don't want her to lay his death at my feet
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: because I killed him. Well yeah, Oh.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Vuji has a question in chat how did Land earn
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: a living? There's a mention in this chapter, I think,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: or the prior one, where he mentions having estates granted
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: to him in Shinar that he could get like an
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: advance from a bank on to get money from He
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: mentions it briefly, he's got states in Shinar, so I
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: don't know who's stewarding them for him or how he's
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: accessing that money, but it is a throwaway line. Yeah,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: he's a landlord. It's kind of unfortunate, but that's the
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: only way that the nobility of medieval Europe has ever
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: had money, right, and that's you know, the base palette for.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: This one assumes it was gifted to him by one
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: of the kings. It's probably managed by that country. He
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: probably has nothing to do with it other than the
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: money that it brings in.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: Right, because he was raised in Shinar. I think that
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: was the country that they went to to raise him.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: So yeah, presumably like King Esar or whoever was king
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: at the time, was like, here have one of my estates.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: It'll do for your inheritance or.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: Whatever destroyed kingdom.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, mows the lawn by practicing sword forms, take the dandelions. Yeah,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 5: we didn't even talk about the excellent sword fighting scene.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: We just kind of blew pie it. But you know
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: is Robert Jordan listened off sword forms having a good
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: time time Like cool, honey, it's it's fun. I enjoyed
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: reading it. But there's not much to talk about because
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: it's like ana Jordan does what he does best, which
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: is half a blade master, do blade.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Because it's not an analog for anything. It's not an analogy.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: It's just Land being a badass and taking out six
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: fighters in a really cool scene.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. To the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:19:27
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• 1:19:30
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• 1:19:34
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• 1:19:37
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• 1:19:41
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