Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #219: Rented Trust and Front Groups: Inside Big Food’s Anti-MAHA Playbook

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Episode #219: Rented Trust and Front Groups: Inside Big Food’s Anti-MAHA Playbook · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: So traditional media is becoming less effective for big food, big ag, big pharma.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: They are now turning to social media influencers.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because of the big return on investment.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: The average return, according to reports, is between five to eight dollars for every dollar they spend.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's bigger than any kind of advertising you could imagine.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a a one to two, one to three is is you know kind of industry standard for general, you know, advertising.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think what what this shows, well, A, it's the it's the demise of mainstream media.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Joe Rogan has way more subscribers than CNN MSNBC combined.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: My sense is that when things become so complex, confusing, and and uh and convoluted from you know from norms, people are desperate for somebody to trust.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, everybody.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels Podcast with yours truly, the farmer Joel Salatin, and our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're gonna kind of do some catch-up on some things.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um Cena's been looking into some updates on the Maha movement and the backlash to the Maha movement.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I've been to a couple of uh interesting wellness type of conferences things.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're we're just gonna uh try to catch you up on some tidbits that we've both been um been seeing here and over the last couple of weeks.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, Cena, uh start us off.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so as Joel mentioned, the Maha movement is growing, and big food, big ag and big pharma don't like it.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: They are determined to stop it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to start with a few of the positives, and then we'll let you know the latest on what's happening to oppose this movement for transparency and uh for cleaner food, uh, and soil, water, and medicines, and so forth.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I recently heard Callie Means talk about how there's there was this clinic that was a network of over a thousand medical doctors.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And these doctors were saying that five years ago, none of their patients, 0% of their patients, ever asked about root causes of illnesses, and they didn't ask about natural solutions, you know, like herbals, for example.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying now, now 80% of the patients that these thousand-plus doctors see are asking, well, what is the actual root cause?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And is there another natural alternative other than a prescription medication?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So five years ago, zero percent, now 80%.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's huge.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: That is a huge shift in our culture, and that is a positive.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the doctors don't like it, he said.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think it's because it's malicious intent, they just don't know how to treat people holistically and using alternative medicines.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't been trained that way.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, but but this is this is a very positive indicator of where our culture is going.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, we've talked about this a lot that states are now taking action.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we have Florida trying to end the vaccine mandate for their state, West Virginia banning food dyes and other chemicals, California banning food dyes, banning ultra-processed foods and school lunches.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: We got that Texas law requiring warning labels on uh on foods that contain ingredients that are banned in other countries.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: These are like dyes, titanium dioxide, some seed oils, for example.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Many, many states all across the United States are taking action to have cleaner food um and to protect you know medical freedom and our health.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um actually, Joel, I found this interesting.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a new phenomena in pet people in pet owners.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you know how it's been talked about a lot lately that vaccines may be related to autism in children.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a 2024 study that came out that said that 22% of dog owners and 26% of cat owners are now vaccine hesitant, and pet owners are coming forward saying that hey, after my pet got vaccinated, it led to like behavioral or cognitive changes that were like autism.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's now called instead of autism, it's potism.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's a new thing, potism.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So people, you know, people are noticing things and they're starting to speak up.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've noticed this too.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot easier for many of us to defend our and protect our pets versus ourselves, you know.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we love those little furry creatures.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people, a lot of people are willing to uh actually uh put more attention on care for their pets than their own kids.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they'll they'll spend big money on uh on pet food and then take their kids to McDonald's.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that maybe it's cognitive dissidents, right?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe haven't maybe they haven't made that connection yet.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yes, yes, for whatever reason, that is absolutely true.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so now we have the birth of potism.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this was huge.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we had previously reported that um Zuckerberg from Facebook or Meta had acknowledged that they were censoring, and it was because of pressure from the state, right?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: From the federal government.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: YouTube has now come out and admitted that they censored Americans because of the state, because of pressure from the state.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: That includes, like Sayer G, our friend from Green Med Info.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: His YouTube channel has been actually reinstated after all this time, just reinstated.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So this is uh a good indicator that free speech is winning, right?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're winning on that front as well.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: We have to, of course, keep pushing for it and speaking out about it, but it does appear that we are winning.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they there was a letter that was sent.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there are parent companies called Alphabet, but don't quote me on that, where they did say that this was pressure from the state.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the the that misinformation or disinformation doesn't is being vindicated um one piece at a time.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on another good front, the Maha movement is growing internationally.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: We now have make Europe healthy again, the Miha movement.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they call it, which is great.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I heard uh one of the founders of the Miha movement speak, and she said that they are they are modeling their Miha movement after the American Maha movement.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So finally, Joel, America is leading in something positive, right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're not leading in, you know, the sickest Americans anymore, or you know, the kids that just want to be social media influencers instead of engineers and scientists.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that's come up is this um digital ID that's been introduced in Great Britain, this mandatory digital ID.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that that Miha movement is pushing against.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I think this is very concerning, something that in America we should be aware of because I think this is one of those kind of Trojan horse things.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there it's going to snowball very quickly.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's a press release from the UK government website, and this is what it says a new digital ID scheme will help combat illegal working while making it easier for the vast majority of people to use vital government services.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Digital ID will be mandatory for right-to-work checks by the end of the parliament.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: This will result in a service that takes the best aspects of the digital identification systems that are already up and running around the world.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the UK government cites Australia, where citizens can access a range of private services from banking to buying alcohol with their digital identification.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: In Estonia, the digital ID has apparently revolutionized parents' lives, according to them, by enabling access to child benefits, their health records, applications for a nursery.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you don't have to provide the same information twice.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: In Denmark, students can use their national digital ID to log in, to retrieve education records and for qualifications and job and university applications.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they cite India, where the government has saved apparently$10 billion every year by reducing fraud and leakages in their welfare schemes.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So again, another government program that apparently you have to have this digital ID to access.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: The UK government then says the new plan will offer significant benefits for reducing identity theft and preserving privacy with security at its core.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: It will limit personal details being shared unnecessarily by only sharing the relevant information for the specific scenario in question.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they're going to use encryption and make sure that the data is held and assessed securely.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I believe them.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like why would I so anyhow, there's of course promoting this mandatory digital ID as a benefit?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing this for your own good.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you can already see between the lines here, it will probably be connected with oh, you want to um get your license, right?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: You got to go down to, you know, like their equivalent of the DV and get your D M V and get your license.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, where's your digital ID to prove that it's you?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you want to access your bank account, where's your digital ID?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Russell Brand actually has just reported that he thinks this digital ID is now being tied to a carbon score, potentially through banking records.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he mentioned that someone reported to him that in the UK, when you at this grocery store, when you bought a sandwich, it has a moniker near the barcode, and it said something to the effect of this is eight percent of your carbon allowance.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very concerning, and so this is why Miha came out, uh I believe it was last Saturday in protest against these mandatory digital IDs.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: So on the positive though, there's a movement there as well that's standing up and doing something about it, and we were the influence for that.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, go America.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, with all of this movement and momentum happening and spreading globally, our government, big ag, big food, big pharma, like I said, is not happy and they are fighting back.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna give you three ways in which they're fighting back.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: But Joel, did you want to first chime in and say something?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm I'm I'm oh, all right.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the first is they are renting social media influencers, so traditional media is becoming less effective for big food, big ag, big pharma.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: They are now turning to social media influencers, and that's because of the big return on investment.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: The average return, according to reports, is between five to eight dollars for every dollar they spend.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a five to eight times return on investment.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have a top social media influencer, your return on your investment could be 11 times.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's huge.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge return on investment.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh that that's that's bigger than any kind of advertising you could imagine.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, uh a one to two, one to three is is you know kind of industry standard for general, you know, at advertising.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um I I I think what what this shows, well, A, it's the it's the demise of mainstream media.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, literally, literally the numbers.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Joe Rogan has way more subscribers than CNN MSNBC combined.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean, the just the sheer numbers.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing is that I think I think um with uh see what you think, but my sense is that when things become so uh complex, confusing and and uh and convoluted from you know from norms people are desperate for somebody to trust.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: For for some for some uh screener, a screener.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I remember long time ago, uh long time ago when I mean when the internet was just in its infancy and websites were coming on and all this stuff, um, you know, I was asking somebody about, well, how do you how do you uh how do you vet?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do you decide what site, what place you're gonna go to?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, well, that's why people are looking for screeners to um you know to vet their stuff.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and and so so somebody, I mean he was talking about me, so somebody like you who sifts through and says, you know, here's the good, here's the not, that's where the influencer comes from.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's all about I need a I need a um a coach that I can hold the hand and who will vet for me because life's too complicated and too and too confusing for me to sort it out myself.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I completely agree.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and and that that's why an influencer now has more credibility than a news anchor.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and they spend more time with the social media influencer, right?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: The news anchor may may come up like in in our day, and I'll group me with you because it, you know, we're of different generations, but it was still the same where you would see the nightly news and the news anchor came on once, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't have great contact with them, you didn't have interaction with them, but social media has changed all of that.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: These people, especially younger people, spend a lot of time with these social media influencers.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: They have become their role models, and part of this is in the absence of in-person connection, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: That they are now, they're not looking at their peers necessarily as being these role models.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're looking for these social media influencers, these icons, you know, who's doing the craziest thing, who has the most followers?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's easy for them to do because they spend so much time on the screens.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it depends on the study you're looking at, but it's really easy to find many studies that say the average teenager spends about seven hours a day on screens for entertainment.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's not schoolwork, seven hours a day for entertainment.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So they're they have a relationship in their minds with these social media influencers and they feel connected to them.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, they're going to believe them.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh this and and big food, big ag big farmer, they know it.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: They know that this has shifted our culture and this is where the trust is.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So for this year, 2025, it is projected that their spending on US social media influencers alone will reach 10 billion dollars.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: 10 billion dollars just to get social media influencers to shift our or the market to shift the culture.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And Joel, we're in the wrong business, man, because I was looking up how much people got for a post, a single post.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: The smaller influencers will get about a thousand dollars per post.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: The larger influencers can receive like five hundred thousand dollars per video or more per video, Joel.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it which incentivizes them, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: That who would be able to say no to that?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really, really hard proposition to turn down, and so but there's a there's obviously responsibility that comes with that, and they're not being forthright.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So let me give you an example.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are not.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So let me give you an example, and this is one that Dr.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Eric Berg has brought to light.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's a doctor called Dr.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, who is a social media influencer and he supports pharmaceuticals.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Allegedly, he's been paid over a million dollars by Abbott Labs.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yet on camera, he has said that he's never taken money from a pharmaceutical company.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not even being transparent, they're not disclosing these conflicts of interest.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's actually estimated that somewhere between 40% of social media influencers and up to 95% are actually not appropriately disclosing these conflicts of interest.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yet people believe them.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, especially the young people believe them.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So the Maha Commission actually called this out because the FDA is not happy with it.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the Maha Commission has been citing a loophole that's in the current law that's actually allowing this to happen.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what they said is um, quote, egregious violations demonstrating harm from current practices will be prioritized, including the harm by social media influencers, including dissemination of risk information and quality of life through misleading and deceptive advertising on social media and digital platforms.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the FDA is trying to initiate a rulemaking process to get rid of this loophole.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the loophole, what it does, it allows the pharmaceutical companies to hide safety information by putting it in another format or location, like through the social media influencers.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: There was a 2024 review that the FDA cited where it said that 100% of social media posts for the top pharmaceutical manufacturers and products included drug benefits.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: So 100% of these social media posts told you the benefits of the drugs, and only 33% of them mentioned possible harm.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the FDA is saying that's probably because 88% of the advertisements for the top-selling drugs are posted by individuals, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: These social media influencers, and then some organizations, and they're not following the FDA's fair and balance guidelines.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the point is the industry has figured this out.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're now renting social media influencers, and they're getting paid a lot of money for making these posts.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason they're doing that is because they have great sway in our culture.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And this is, you know, this is not surprising to any of us, but it did shock me how much money is actually being thrown at these people.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think this is an area that we really need to focus on and try to shift what's happening.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know this sounds like a David and Goliath proposition, but we need to start shifting what's happening in social media because it is so influential.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if we if we lose the younger generation, then we're gonna lose the progress that we've made in, for example, in the food supply, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're the ones that are supposed to pick up the baton from us.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now, uh, I thought this was also really cool.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought you would like this too, Joel.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that when I was hearing Callie Meen speak, it sounded like you or me because he flat out said the federal government is not where you go for fast change.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So all these people are saying, Oh, they're not doing enough, like the FDA is not doing enough, USDA is not doing, or the USDA is doing bad things, in my opinion, but they're not doing enough, they're not doing it fast enough.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Callie Means agrees.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: He says that's not where you go if you want fast change, just like you and I have said, he's talking about how it's going to be a 10 plus year battle.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, culture is how we change the world.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is the culture, which is the free market.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you and I have been saying for a long time.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really go ahead.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and that's how you change fast.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about think about how fast uh, you know, a fad, uh you know, I'm I'm thinking of a fad, but but uh a good fad uh can you know can go through a culture.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm thinking of 1906 when Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I you and I were not around then, but you know, when 1906, when John Upson Sinclair wrote the jungle, those seven meat companies lost half of their market in six months.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, think you talk about a culture change.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: That was a culture change.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: When those seven big companies lost half of their in half of their sales in six months.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a that's a profound, it's a profound thing.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the same thing could happen today.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've, you know, I've I've talked about, you know, we we have this um this one-day great American smoke out, you know, that they've done for years and years and years, you know, one day when when uh you have this uh nobody smokes their cigarettes.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I don't know if it's still done.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it used to be done, and maybe now it's so few people are smoking, maybe now it's kind of gone into disfavor.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I've thought, wouldn't it be cool to have a a one-day or a one-week uh American fast food out?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and and I'll tell you what, if if for one week Americans did not go to a fast food joint, you talk about a cultural shift, it would bring every company to its knees in in literally in days, in hours.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine going down hamburger alley and there's no cars in the I I mean it it that that kind of thing just excites me.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'd I'd love to figure out how to how to pull such a thing off.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: But um uh you know that that would be a that would be an exciting um exciting cultural thing.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and it would it would give it um uh payback for all of the sit-down restaurants that went out of business during COVID.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we you know, we lost, I don't know what, 40, 50 restaurants, you know, in 2020.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, our farm lost almost a million dollars in sales in 2020 to restaurants that all went out of business and they'll never come back.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because if you didn't have a drive-in window in 2020 as a restaurant, you were, you know, you were in trouble.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and so it was the biggest transfer of um of of restaurant the the pool uh spent on restaurant food was the biggest transfer of that money from sit-down dining to take out fast food that the culture's ever seen.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: The the numbers were were uh profoundly dramatic.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Shifts can happen so fast, you know, and positive and negative shifts.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look at just the diet trends that have come through, you know, people doing the keto diet and then clean keto and you know, gluten-free, like all of these, you know, trends that come come and go.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it it's overwhelming how much is out there and like you said, how to sift through it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that um I have concluded, Joel, that you and I need to work on our marketing skills because we we admittedly are not good at marketing.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like boasting, but you know, they need uh I think that they need to hear voices like yours out there um and to try to grab some of the younger audience so that we can kind of shift them away from some of these other people who are on the take, you know.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: So so who who who's gonna pay us to preach um self self-responsibility in a in in in a in a world where uh nobody wants to take responsibility, you know, and they want to blame everybody else.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a you know, it's a it's a it's a catch-22.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, how do you how do you move that forward?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let uh okay, so you so all right, so so you got the first one.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: The first one.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so second one moving on.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Bring social media influence.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Number two.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, social media rental.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the number two is they're lobbying Congress.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the industry is lobbying Congress.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this I reported on during the QA, so I'll be quick.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: That um there's news out there, so we got word out there that industry has uh built a war chest as somewhere maybe between 30 to 40 million dollars.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: That number is not um substantiated though, but but this war chest to help them get Congress to pass a bill to stop states from banning chemicals in our food.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it may be added to the farm bill.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we're not sure.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's just you know, news on the street.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my question is well, why don't you take all those millions of dollars that you're spending on lobbying and just reformulate the foods to match what you have in other countries, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why this big pushback against Americans wanting to have the same foods and like get the get these ingredients out of our foods that are not in other countries?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Why unless they push back, spending all this money on it, just spend the money to get it out of the food?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they can even say, oh, you know, they've done this before in the past when companies have responded to the market, they've sent out press releases saying, we listened to our consumers, we heard what you wanted, and so we're doing this.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, do it like that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just say we hear you, like we hear you, and you know what?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: We want what's best for our consumer.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: We want to do what you want.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is your food, so this is what we're doing.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna answer your call to action.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then you can get some good grace, but no, they're kind of trying to go behind closed doors and go through Congress.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third one, oh, go ahead.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, before you go on, because I was just in DC with the group of 200, 300 farmers uh that that did a fly-in lobby uh day, two days in DC just two weeks ago on this very issue.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the the tip of the spear on that, just so people want, you know, where where is the where's the tip of the spear on this on this effort about about states uh trying to clamp down on the states?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh California Prop 12 that eliminated uh that that that came in uh whatever six years ago, uh that in California you can't buy pork from you can't buy pork from pigs that were farrowed in farrowing crates.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so that's been an effect for 12 years.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um and roughly what's interesting is that roughly 60 percent of the industry has already converted to comply with Prop 12.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and uh mas uh uh Massachusetts also has I think it's Massachusetts or Connecticut, one or the other, uh that that that has a a similar situation.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, um if you you you you cannot sell pork into California or now I'm confused.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure it's Connecticut or Massachusetts, anyway, cannot sell pork into those states unless it is certified um compliant with that state law that the piggies were not farrowed in a crate.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that so they they've got they've got a fleet of inspectors, these states are sending out inspectors to actually stamp and certify, you know, this this farm does not farrow, does not make piggies in, you know, in farrowing crates.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Farrowing crates, for those that don't know, are simply uh cubicles that that the sows, the mother pigs, sows, they're called a sow, um, lives in, and they can't even turn around.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: All they can do is is lie down and stand up, lie down and stand up.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: They can't they can't walk, they can't turn around, anything.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it you know, it's it's it's worse than being confined to your shower.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine being confined to your shower stall for life.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: For life.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's worse than that, because in a shower stall you can at least turn around.
• 30:20
  unknown: Wow.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: In a feroe crate, you can't even turn around.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's um, you know, it's unbelievably um, you know, i inhumane.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so so uh 60 percent 60 percent of the industry over the last six years has already complied with this.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: 40 percent has not.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's the it's the 40 percent that are crying foul and uh and saying we need we need to make sure that a state cannot determine you know what it's um you know what it's wanting to do.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so so you know it's interesting that we have, you know, uh over over time, we have so eroded state state freedoms and state initiatives in the in our in our country.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this this was this was the this was the American experiment.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: 50 states, 50 experiments, you know, and and and and of an extremely, extremely small federal government.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Until the Civil War, the federal government was not even, nobody even thought about the federal government on a day-to-day basis.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was no IRS, no welfare, no SNAP, no EPA, no Energy Commission, no USDA.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, just go down the line, okay?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: There was none of that.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: So literally, the federal government was like a like a like a footnote, you know, to the average person, it was a footnote in life.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: It it did it simply did not exist.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Today, you can hardly go a minute without thinking about something at the federal government level that that affects your life, that impacts your life.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so here we've had this steady erosion, erosion, erosion of states' rights over you know, the over time.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And now suddenly, as people realize, oh, let's claw some of this, let's claw some of this, uh, this the way we want to live, let's claw some of this back, the folks who have benefited from arrogating our daily life to the federal level uh are trying to prohibit or criminalize a return to state sovereignty.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's um it's it's not it's not slavery now, it's other issues, but it but it but it it's it's it's a similar it's a similar thing.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's the same it's the same uh arguments that were going on then.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's quite it's quite an interesting uh interesting thing.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the and the people that are asking for the federal penetration or the federal intervention in this in this particular case are the Republicans, are the conservatives who are in bed with big ag.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I talked, I asked um what you're talking about for uh in terms of the pigs being created?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and and and and state laws regarding herbicides, pesticides, anything regarding agriculture, that a state uh what they're trying to do is just eliminate a state's ability to um to create a rule that has any impact on sales, on what can be sold in that state.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: The the argument is that the a state should not be able to do that because it interferes with interstate commerce, which is a federal function.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And since interstate commerce is a federal function, California can't say we're not gonna take Iowa, you know, uh crate faroed piggies because then an Iowa, an Iowa pig outfit cannot engage in interstate commerce across the state lines.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: But goodness, Cena, states have had states have had all sorts of laws, you know, within states that affect interstate commerce from day one.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, that this is this is part and parcel of our of our country.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh states can have the have this right to you know to make these kind of rules within within the state that they they want to make the state in.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um so the push for this is very much coming from conservative Republicans who are basically in bed with big ag.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And according to Callie Means, I can tell you, he says big ag is ten times worse than big pharma.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: As big as big as big pharma is, big ag is ten times bigger.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so the the core, you think about the politically, the core of the of the conservative Republican caucus, if you will, uh group in the Senate are Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, you know, Indiana, Ohio.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: They are the big the big ag states.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and whenever you have uh big ag questioned, um, these senators, you know, they're they're they're absolutely terrified of offending big ag in in these big states.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: And those those like those five states and those ten Republican senators are the heart and soul of the you know the re the conservative Republican, you know, voting block in the Senate.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's why you see such a you know such a strange um you know assortment of allies here, you know, people that you would think uh are for you know a smaller federal government, states' rights, those kinds of things.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're completely owned by big ag, which has flourished because every time, every time the federal government gets bigger, big ag gets stronger.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: You you can't have you can't have big government and small business.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and so you will not be surprised that they're involved in the third tactic, not the list.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: But by the way, it is California and you are correct, Massachusetts that prohibits the sale of the pork from pigs where the mothers were in the crates.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I just looked that up as you were talking.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um, case anybody wondered.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so to your point, they're involved with the third tactic that I want to talk about, and that is a new front group.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a new food and beverage industry front group that just launched.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And get this, Joel, for talking about a label.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: The name of this organization is called Americans for ingredient transparency.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds like a great thing, right?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they're claiming that it's so it's AFIT, right?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Americans for ingredient transparency, aim fit.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: AFIT claims to want a uniform national standard for ingredient safety and transparency that is rooted in science.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: So far, that that sounds good to just not to me, because I don't want a national standard, right?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: I want it to the states, but the average consumer who isn't in the nitty-gritty will look at that and be like, oh my gosh, that sounds great.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: So now what are they um what are they trying to push as their reforms?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: The website lists front-of-package labeling standards that will require a national front of package nutrition labeling system to guide consumers to healthier choices.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, geez, that sounds like what Kennedy's talked about.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a QR code reform that would require the placement of a QR code on food packaging nationwide to allow consumers to scan and instantly access product information.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: That also sounds like a good thing.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then they want reform of grass, generally recognized as safe.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: They described it as a federal legislation to provide a nationally uniform regulatory approach for new ingredients used in food and beverage products.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, geez, that also sounds like stuff Kennedy's talked about, right?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when you first look at this, it sounds like this is a consumer advocate group that could even be part of the Maha movement.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing peel back the layers, and you will first find some of the bank rollers, right?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the supporters of this group are some of the nation's biggest food and beverage companies, including General Mills, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, Tyson Foods, Nestle, Conagra, Kraft Heinz, Hormel, Cisco, the Meat Institute, the National Restaurant Association, the Food Industry Association, American Beverage Association, American Soybean Association, and the American Farm Bureau Federation.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the list goes on and on, but you can see here, right?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: You got Big Ag in there, like you're talking about.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: You got big food.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: This roster reads like an industry coalition to me.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: It disguised as a consumer advocacy group that will, in fact, advance the interests of food and food companies, you know, big food, uh, big ag.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I highly doubt that their national standard would be rooted in, quote, you know, real science.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like they, like they want.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, now, Joel, it gets worse.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: The co-leader of this group is is named Julie Gunlock.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what she said about this new uh, you know, this new group.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: She says, families deserve common sense and signs-backed transparency they can rely on.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's why a national standard for food safety and labeling is of the utmost importance to ensure every parent can make safe, informed choices for their children, because protecting our families starts with the truth.
• 40:41
  unknown: Okay.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, she is the author of the book.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: I almost don't even want to say the name of the book, but I want to promote it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: But the book is called From Cupcakes to Chemicals: How the Culture of Alarmism makes us afraid of everything and how to fight back.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: She is um somebody who has been pro-chemical, pro-GMO, pro-pesticide for a long time.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: She um she has social media posts that favor industry.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna just read you a couple examples.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: In one of her posts, she says, there is no evidence that tiny amounts of titanium dioxide cause harm to anyone.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: But at least the food babe is happy.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, folks, the environmental working groups dirty dozen list is a lie designed to get you to buy expensive organic produce.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Eat your veggies and ignore this stupid alarmist list.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Another one, it's incredibly depressing for those who work hard to push back on Dr.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oz's nonsense for little, no financial reward.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Legit orgs shouldn't partner with him.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just last week, Oz promoted dumb theory that toxic pesticides lurk in cereals, fear-mongering to moms, unforgivable, and then which we reported on that ourselves.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another post.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing wrong with GMO crops.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Another post, good news.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Judge May got 20 250 million Monsanto Roundup verdict.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: So she was excited, she celebrating that the judge gutted the verdict um in favor of people who have been injured by a Roundup.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, and her list goes on and on, but you get the point.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's the co-founder of this organization.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is their real mission?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were talking about, Joel, the real mission is they want to block states' rights, they want to stop these state laws that are requiring companies to disclose or remove harmful chemicals from our foods.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they want to ensure that states can't adopt any of these similar safeguards in the future.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: They want to actually amend the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act to make the FDA the sole authority over food and beverage uh regulations.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: This would strip the states of their rights to an act on their own.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: And as we laid out, they're doing this because states are now stepping up and taking their own action.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: This tells us that we are winning, right?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: And states, it's so important to fight back against this group.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so the reason why I'm talking about it now is so that people are aware, because this group just formed.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the people are aware of it, they don't fall victim to it.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully, if somebody sends them information, you know, uh from this group that or that's connected to this group that's promoting something, they can then dispel this information and share it with others and tell them this is the true motivation behind this group.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because we need the states to step up.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: That is how we can change the food.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's how we win the war on big food.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we have states that are stepping up and say, okay, now these you can't put these ingredients.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: In our cookies, for example, or in our soda.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: The companies are not going to formulate 50 different products for America alone.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: They will have to formulate one product to go across the United States.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they will have to do it based on the one, the one state that has the strictest regulations.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: So this is one way that we can move the market faster and more efficiently than the federal government ever could.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, federal standards take usually years to change, right?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: To change a federal regulate regulation, it could take years.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they have tons of money in it tied up in lobbyists, like we talked about, so they can water down those federal laws, right?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they have an invested interest in getting it on the federal level, where the consumer has an invested interest in getting it happen in getting the movement on the state level.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: And my last part about this is that even consumer reports has come out calling out this front group.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they actually call out the labeling part of this front group.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is the quote from Brian, who's the director of food policy for consumer reports.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: He says, and I quote, if there were truth in labeling laws governing the naming of campaigns, this coalition would be prohibited from disguising their true intention, which is to wipe out all the state laws that protect consumers from harmful chemical ingredients in food and hold the industry accountable.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: So another thing, the power of labels, there's no law on how you can have on that you have to have truth and transparency in your label brand.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: So Americans for ingredient transparency sounds fantastic.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's legal, but it's it is a front group that is trying to undermine states' rights and undermine our right to have clean food for our families.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it goes.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wanted you to finish because I want I I want to bring one more aspect to this that we saw back several years ago when um I'm not sure whether it was federal or state that mandated that we had to have nutrition labels on our all of our food.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um you mean at the farm?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: On every every item of food had to have a nutrition label on it.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Then they kind of eased that off and said that it could be at point of sale.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um so this was a bit I can't remember how this has been, I don't know what, maybe eight, nine years ago?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so suddenly, you know, overnight when this law went into effect, we we had to have nutrition, you know, nutrition um uh labeling on suddenly our T-bone steaks, our ground beef, our boneless chicken, uh, all this stuff.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and I don't think people realize how much that costs.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when you send a sample of food to a lab to get a government-approved nutrition label, uh, you know, this costs thousands and thousands of dollars.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a small farm like us that has let's just say we have you know 300 different products, you know, from whole broilers to boneless, skinless breasts to you know, uh ground beef to um you know, eggs.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um this this is is literally it it it uh it puts you out of business.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can't you can't afford, you simply can't afford those tests, which by the way, cost the same for us if we're if we're selling five chickens as it does for Tyson if they're selling 10 million chickens.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Same test, same money.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is the scale prejudicial element of it.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we here at our far, we stewed about well, how do we what do we do about this?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and what was interesting was they would allow you without any testing to use the official USDA nutrition information.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and so we of course we we have had a couple of things tested.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, we know our eggs have you know 25 times the folic acid of you know USDA, uh, USDA eggs.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um, so we just we just copied for all of our array of products the USDA information, put it in a notebook, put it on the on the counter in the uh sales building with a great big note on the front.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Here are the nutrition um, here's the nutrition whatever requirements.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um this notebook makes us comply with the law, but there is absolutely no truth whatsoever in any of this material.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it is completely fraudulent and has nothing to do with what you're gonna buy here, but it does make us comply with the law to uh to to give you the ingredient.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was you know, is is a and of course everybody, I mean, they just cut what you know, what is this?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's so preposterous that you you look you can't make this stuff up.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's it's that it's that outrageous.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, so all that to say, one of my big concerns with this, you know, with this group is that they will push this label agenda to where nobody can sell an item without a without a customized, a certified, customized product um nutrient label.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, what we did to comply with that, with that kind of you know first effort eight years ago will now not be possible.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: We'll actually have to put it on the package, and it will have to be a certified, customized of our actual product, which suddenly requires a ten thousand dollar test for every single item we sell.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and so so um knowing the history of the way these guys operate and think, it wouldn't surprise me if that actually you know uh um is part of that agenda, you know, uh down the down the lane.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I would not be surprised either.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, to your point, uh one one national label, it will be watered down and it will be more cost prohibitive for the smaller companies and farms.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what it will serve to do as well, I think, is it's gonna kind of level the playing field for them.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if all the foods have to have this same level, the healthier foods, you know, are not gonna stand out.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're all gonna carry this, you know, very similar label.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: So uh why even do it?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not like the average consumer is not gonna walk in there and be like, and they're gonna say, Oh, it all has the same label, they're all the same.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're not gonna flip it over and start looking at the ingredients.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I never did.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you're not gonna actually do that unless you have some compelling reason to do it.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if the front of label is the same, why flip it over?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because because it's it's um the the labeling itself, we've talked about this, is just calories, protein, fats.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it it it doesn't actually it doesn't actually say anything.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it it and and and so yeah, none none of it uh none of it matters.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh yes, you're exactly right.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: They are they are um fighting back uh uh aggressively.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um so that that brings me to, we've got just a couple minutes here to finish up, but so I was just seen a um at the uh healing for the ages uh conference, and uh their motto in Texas, and uh this is this is organized by um Dr.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Brian Artis, Dr.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Henry Ely, Dr.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: Edward Group, and Dr.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: uh Jana Schmidt.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: And their last names are A G E S.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's healing for the A G E S.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is the four doctor group that that um that put it together.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: And their slogan is my ha.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Make yourself healthy again.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you like that?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: So so every everything is um is is my ha.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um and the first speaker was Rebecca Wilson, the founder of Stand for Health Freedom.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: And she was talking about their and and this goes right along with with what we've it's been um so I'll just give you a couple of my notes from her talk.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we're experiencing a cultural shift.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: The the industry is angry.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not the word she used, but um the angry.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's our family-friendly version.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, family-friendly, and she's and and the industry is showing up like never before.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so, of course, standing for and so stand for health freedom is is um making some pretty big changes.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um by 2026, we will reach a tipping point for health freedom, she said.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and we're trying to create moral boundaries to the public health authority.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: The wind is at our backs.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh health freedom, health freedom, she said, will be the issue of the 2026 midterm elections.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and they're they've they've worked so far in six states, and all six states we've worked with are winning on this issue.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so so the the the the discussion, she said, has moved from exemptions and in other words, there's before now their efforts have been in trying to secure exemptions and um and change compliance requirements.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now the whole issue, the whole conversation is no medical mandates, period.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: No medical mandates, period.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's see.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh even uh this was interesting.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: She said that who, WHO, the World Health Organization, has received 665,000 requests to exit who, and even the staff at WHO took a no-confidence vote on their own leadership for who.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the enemy imploding.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um and so the three pillars of disentangling are transparency, self-governance, and decentralization.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there's five core focuses.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is no medical mandate agenda, period.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: Zero medical mandates.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, um, stop Bayer's bad liability shield bill, which we just talked about.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: That was your that was your number, your number two, the lobbying Congress.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's all wrapped up in this Bayer is leading the fight to stop liability shield, which is all wrapped up in this pig, you know, this this pig crate uh thing.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's all part of that.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Then um D number three, deregulate small farmers and homescale vendors.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, that's near and dear to my heart.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, deregulate small farmers, homescale vendors.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think what they need to do there, if I could edit or if I could give them some advice, I would say don't call for deregulating small farmers and homescale vendors.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: I would say deregulate direct producer to consumer sales.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: Quit talking about small and big.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: That that that pits, that's not the issue.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: The issue is not small and big.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: The issue is relational transactions.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's the issue.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you if you have relational transactions, you don't need a bureaucrat in the middle of it.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you're if your transaction has no relation, if it's coming on Amazon, Walmart, you know, Costco, whatever, then then you know that's where the regulation, that's where you know government involvement can you know uh go.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: Number four, stop spraying skies with weather modification.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and number five, um uh water should hydrate and not medicate.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's the fluoride issue.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and so those are the five core issues that they're doing.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um they have sued the Centers for Disease Control for being reckless with our children.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they have ongoing suits now.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and what we want is the court to say, because you've been reckless, vaccines should be a shared decision.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: And she talked a little bit about that because there's been some pushback on that language, a shared decision.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and she she explained why they're going to a shared decision and not just um parental, because shared shared sounds better, and it's inherently involving the parent in the decision.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so from a messaging standpoint, it's not as offensive, but it accomplishes the same goal.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, that's so smart because if if you say it's a parent's decision, that immediately alienates the doctor, right?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and and so people can think of that as being dangerous.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're not consulting your doctor, and also there's a there can there's a lot of ego involved often in you know the medical field.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: We we a lot of us think of them as gods, and so it also puts them the medical doctor on the defensive.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's shared, then it's like, oh, I'm gonna come to you, who are who is still the expert, and we're gonna talk through it together.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's actually so brilliant in terms of a marketing strategy.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I thought the way she explained it was really good.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't alienate the medical community.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: It it automatically brings them in uh to shared.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so um so this whole this whole so she talked a lot about um digital uh artificial intelligence and genome sequencing.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and she she used the term this this was, I mean, I know you're all over this, but it was a little bit new to me the way she explained it.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um that this gene sequencing, genome sequencing is all based on a presupposition of determinate outcomes from from uh from mapping genomes.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh what she said is that their newest information indicates that uh only three to ten percent of genome sequencing that that that that indicates a determinate outcome, okay, you're gonna get this, um, actually results in that because your body adapts and you can't foretell your health future based on genome sequencing.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was seeing you smiling, you're you're dying to to throw in on something like that.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it was just wonderful to listen to her explain the fallacy of these.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, um, every newborn, every newborn, unless you opt out, and most people don't know they can opt out, is now testing for 30 to 75 biomarkers.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: So just think you've got this beautiful little newborn child, and a biomarker comes back when he's 12 years old, he's gonna have leukemia.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just think what that, I mean, it it's unspeakable.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and they tell this to the parent as if, okay, you know, you got the short straw, uh, or you know, whatever.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's um it's obscene.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's just obscene.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um you so while you can opt out in like most states, it's my understanding, the it does vary state by state.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, I didn't know about it until I had my third child.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a little bit alarming, right?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: I uh or sorry, my second child.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I had one child in California, nobody even told me that they were doing this testing.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then I found out by the time I had my second child, and um, they would basically did not allow me to opt out.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, I don't want to do the genetic markers, and then they told me that I was being a negligent parent if I didn't get my child tested for these genetic markers because they're like, we're only testing for ones that we know we could do something about.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, uh you can't even do anything about the ones you know about.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, yeah, right, yeah.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, they she gave me the riot act, and and then I was like, no, I'm only doing these, but who knows?
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: I still had to take my baby down there to their government office and get the get him tested.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: And who knows if that's all they tested it for?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: I opted out of many of them, but you know, I didn't get to see the results.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: They just told me, oh, he doesn't have X, Y, and Z.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: That was it.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, she said that that China, China has made a uh uh commitment that by 2048, the goal is that every single person in China will be in the genomic database, and they're on track to get there right now by 2048.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: The national database will build out a compliance requirement by saying their future is determined, and this was great.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: She said gene determination, gene determinant thinking is sorcery.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, and and of course, you know, if they find something, how severe is it?
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: So she was talking about baby KJ in July, um uh that that became a darling of the big pharma saved by CRISPR gene therapy, uh, was overstated.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she's still dependent on daily medications.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: And in July, she needed three transfusions.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and um, you know, it by gene determinant.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: Gene determinism is a lie.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: But imagine being, I'm quoting her, imagine being new parents told your baby will get cancer.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's not informed consent, it's extortion, unless you're also told that gene determinism is a lie.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, Joel, this is a real thing.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have a girlfriend who's close to me who her her her son is um you know very young, under the age of 10.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to give too many details, but under the age of 10, I kid you not, her team of medical doctors said that he has a mitochondrial disease and he will not live past the age of 35.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what?
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what can you imagine?
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, and now they live in this constant state of fear, and they've convinced her that there's nothing that can be done about it.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's criminal.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, and and you and I know what's the single biggest um catalyst for disease.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: Label.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well well, but but but but yeah, but label, yeah, label your kid's gonna die at 35.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean the stress that comes with the label.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, the stress that comes with the label.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: So HR 4709 right now, HR 4709 in Congress is uh once the goal is for a national database in America for every newborn.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the messaging, the messaging is a promise we're gonna stop rare disease or find out before it happens, and this is gonna be the way of the future for medicine.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and of course, she said we've just spent three years learning the devastation of gene therapy with mRNA in COVID, and now all newborns are.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are going to be labeled, you're gonna love this.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: She said, newborns should not be labeled a patient in waiting.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh look, see, are you?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, you know, I'm I'm a prodigious note taker, you know.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: She said, This is medical kidnapping.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that not a powerful word?
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: Medical kidnapping.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: I got goosebumps.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so it limits the child's future.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: All crazy diagnoses define the kid's future based on probability and and and that epigenetics do not exist.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was a a profound and powerful speech.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then one of the other speakers was our our buddy pal friend, you know, uh the poop doctor, Dr.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um Sabine Hazan.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and and she did her latest uh findings on on what enabled a person to get COVID, COVID based on microbiome uh um counts.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, so she she's done thousands and thousands of stool samples.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she loves to be called the poop doctor.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and so she like she's the world's foremost uh expert on on trying to get the patterns that are showing up in the microbiome for all sorts of problems.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh obviously the latest one from COVID.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when she finished, when so I was up on stage with her during QA, along with Dr.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tenpenny, uh, who most of us know.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so the three of us are up there.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here with these two doctors and me, you know, in the middle of these two women.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and the question is doc is to Dr.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um Hazan about, you know, the COVID and all this stuff.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so she she you know explains what she's found.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just turned to her and I said, so the takeaway is that instead of s sticking a swab up our noses, we should have been sticking it up our butts, you know.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, the whole place just rolled with laughter.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was so funny.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, then then you conjure up the views of all these drive-through, you know, sticking up your imagine if you had sticking up your rear, you know, and I mean it would be like moon pies, you know.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we just went off, you know.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was wild.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was, it was, it was great.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was the um it was the joke of the day.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, I love that.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was a good time, but um, I'll tell you what, this um this Rebecca Wilson stand for health freedom.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that is that is an outfit that is um that that's a good outfit.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I love them.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, um what was Sabine's main takeaway?
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she looks at these uh patterns of the microbiome for for all kinds of diseases, not just acute for chronic.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: Did she have a main takeaway?
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, just that she has found she has found patterns for COVID.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I can't remember she had the name.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: I she throws around these Latin names for all this bacteria like it's well before she was pinpointing bifidobacter.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: What yeah well, before she was pinpointing um people who are more susceptible to COVID, for example, um, had low levels or even devoid of bifidobacter.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is she somewhat yeah, that's that's exactly what she was talking about.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually I actually was doing an interview uh during her speech, so I didn't actually hear her speech.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was just with her on stage with the Q ⁇ A period.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't I didn't get all the you know the the background stuff.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, that is the bacteria she mentioned.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now that you mentioned it, yeah.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I get I get the uh the language similarity.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so so here we are.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um so yeah, we've got a we've got to shut down here a little over time, but um it's been a it's been a good uh it's been a good time, and thanks for thanks for bringing us up to speed.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh my question for our group today is you know, we've talked a lot about cultural cultural shifting.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um can you name two things in the last two years?
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm giving you a nice big uh entry ramp here, two things in the last two years that you have quit buying, that you have decided I'm going to defund that.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: It can be any anything from pharmaceuticals to foods to um entertainment to whatever.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just we we just talked about how slow the government is to change.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about how fast culture can change.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to encourage and and have people uh appreciate you know, if if millions of people quit buying something, it goes away.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: It goes away.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, unless you're a soybean farmer, and then you get a bailout.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that's another that's another topic for another day.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: But we did that one.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Quick follow-up.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Have they gotten the bailout yet?
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I don't think so, but it it's coming.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's no there's no coming.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's no question.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and and so so um uh name name two things, two things that that uh up until two years ago you would buy, even occasionally, that now you've just nope, done, not gonna do it, uh, out out of that, out of that uh market.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh might might be interesting to see what folks come up with.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you all for being with us on another uh episode of Beyond Labels.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for visiting with us.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_00: We just appreciate you greatly.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you like this content, please share it with others so that um C and I can, Cena and I can uh um stay out of jail with our bills and no uh no so so that so that we can actually um you know continue to put the time and effort in sleuthing for you to help uh coach us all through to a better, a better future.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being with us.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: We look forward to being with you again next week.