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Can Casual Sex Ever Really Work?? · I Do, Part 2

0:13
Speaker 1: All right, we're back I do part two. This is
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Speaker 1: mister Wright and I'm joined once again by Luise. We
0:19
Speaker 1: had so much fun last time talking about all the
0:22
Speaker 1: questions and comments from listeners. I think we ran out
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Speaker 1: a time, we had so many. So we want to
0:27
Speaker 1: continue this and get right back into it. And of
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Speaker 1: course we have producer Heather who is our referee, keeping
0:33
Speaker 1: us on time and on topic.
0:36
Speaker 2: Yes, so let's dive into this is a good one.
0:40
Speaker 2: Mister right, We'll start with you. Should you talk about
0:44
Speaker 2: your previous marriage in early dates when meeting somebody new?
0:49
Speaker 3: You know, we're going to do away with the clock
0:51
Speaker 3: in this episode. I'm going to give you some.
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Speaker 4: Over give me Louise under two minutes because you know.
0:56
Speaker 3: Okay, I promise, but go ahead take it away.
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Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on talking about your previous marriage
1:01
Speaker 2: when first meeting someone new?
1:02
Speaker 3: Should you do it?
1:04
Speaker 1: Okay, it's the elephant in the room. I think you
1:06
Speaker 1: have to. I think you have to get it out
1:07
Speaker 1: of the way. I think you have to address it.
1:09
Speaker 1: I don't think you have to just dote on it.
1:11
Speaker 1: I don't think it has to be the main topic,
1:13
Speaker 1: on and on and on and on. You know, I personally,
1:17
Speaker 1: I want to know what happened. I mean, if somebody,
1:19
Speaker 1: especially if I think somebody's attractive and they're you know,
1:21
Speaker 1: they're energetic, and they're all the things that I'm looking for.
1:25
Speaker 1: The first question I'm going to have is what did
1:27
Speaker 1: the other person in their life not like about them?
1:31
Speaker 1: And so I think that that there has to be
1:34
Speaker 1: an addressing of what what happened in the previous relationship
1:37
Speaker 1: and you know why it ended the way it did.
1:40
Speaker 1: But I don't think that you have to sit there
1:42
Speaker 1: and commiserate about how bad the X was or commiserate
1:45
Speaker 1: about you know what, you know, how terrible the divorce was.
1:48
Speaker 1: I think you address it and you're able to move
1:51
Speaker 1: on and use it as a reference point, but you
1:54
Speaker 1: can't ignore it.
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Speaker 2: Okay, Well that's good, Louise. Before we get to you,
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Speaker 2: I want to ask mister Wright one follow up on
1:59
Speaker 2: that somebody says the reason why their marriage ended in divorce?
2:06
Speaker 2: What reason if you hear it is giving you pause
2:10
Speaker 2: as to if you should go on another date with
2:12
Speaker 2: this person.
2:13
Speaker 1: There could be a ton of reasons why, you know,
2:15
Speaker 1: a divorce ended, and things that would give me red flags.
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Speaker 1: You know, if that person isn't being really specific if
2:22
Speaker 1: they're just saying, ah, you know, it just wasn't working out,
2:24
Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna be like, well, why why wasn't it
2:26
Speaker 1: working out? Because usually there's a pretty simple answer along
2:30
Speaker 1: the way, and you know, people can fall out of love.
2:32
Speaker 4: People can you.
2:33
Speaker 1: Know, have you know, these very very kind of neutral things,
2:37
Speaker 1: or they can be dramatic things.
2:38
Speaker 4: He cheated, she cheated.
2:40
Speaker 1: You know, there was money issues, there was alcohol issues,
2:42
Speaker 1: there was drug abuse issues, there was physical abuse issues.
2:45
Speaker 1: So I think that you know, obviously those big ones
2:48
Speaker 1: are massive red flags, but there's also a lot of
2:53
Speaker 1: ways that people just grow differently and and so I
2:56
Speaker 1: think that's a natural thing as well.
2:58
Speaker 2: Okay, Louise, tell me, when dating, should you bring up
3:03
Speaker 2: your previous marriage?
3:05
Speaker 3: Yes?
3:06
Speaker 1: Or no?
3:07
Speaker 3: Dating somebody new.
3:08
Speaker 5: I don't think it's a straight rule.
3:09
Speaker 6: I think topics just come up organically when you're on
3:13
Speaker 6: a date and if it feels right. I would definitely
3:16
Speaker 6: be weary on the first date of somebody just dumping
3:21
Speaker 6: stuff if organically it didn't happen. I just feel like
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Speaker 6: everything is different in every connection and situation and commonality
3:29
Speaker 6: or whatever comes up. So it's just really situation by situation.
3:33
Speaker 6: But I think early on it's important to know why
3:36
Speaker 6: a significant relationship fell apart because it could be something
3:40
Speaker 6: that is like a red button issue for you, and
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Speaker 6: I would rather know that earlier than getting more invested
3:46
Speaker 6: in the person and then kind of having that knowledge
3:49
Speaker 6: come to light afterwards.
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Speaker 1: I want to add one thing to this, though, there's
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Speaker 1: also something to be said when it's taking over the conversation.
3:57
Speaker 1: And I have met people and their divorce, whether it
4:00
Speaker 1: was recent or a long time ago, whatever it was,
4:02
Speaker 1: is still occupying every moment and every piece of their energy,
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Speaker 1: and all they want to do is talk about their
4:09
Speaker 1: marriage and their divorce and how terrible the person wasn't gone,
4:12
Speaker 1: and on and on and on. And I just look
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Speaker 1: at that and say, well, you're not over it yet.
4:16
Speaker 1: You are still involved in this relationship, whether you know
4:20
Speaker 1: it's worked out or not, it has still consumed you,
4:23
Speaker 1: and that person isn't ready to move forward. And so
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Speaker 1: I think that's that's also a red flag, as if
4:27
Speaker 1: you cannot stop talking about your previous relationship.
4:31
Speaker 3: Well, let me ask you both this.
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Speaker 2: You're on a first date with somebody and you find
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Speaker 2: out in conversation that they're not divorced once, they're not
4:42
Speaker 2: divorced twice. They've actually been divorced three times. Oh, Louise
4:47
Speaker 2: is making a face. I want to know, if you
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Speaker 2: hear somebody's been divorced two plus times on a first date,
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Speaker 2: are you hearing them out or are you all of
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Speaker 2: a sudden like, yeah, I'm checking out of this date.
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Speaker 6: Now kind of neither. I think that first of all,
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Speaker 6: it shows me they can be in a relationship, which
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Speaker 6: I appreciate, and that they can make a commitment, which
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Speaker 6: I appreciate. I think a lot of times it has
5:11
Speaker 6: to do with the reasons for divorce. I mean, somebody
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Speaker 6: could get married the first time and they're not best
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Speaker 6: friends and it just organically falls apart, and then number
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Speaker 6: two hasband Number two you could love, and then he
5:21
Speaker 6: cheats on you. So I'm not going to make a
5:23
Speaker 6: judgment there either. I think it's just everything is unique,
5:27
Speaker 6: and as you get older, you give grace on different situations.
5:30
Speaker 6: I think for me, the most important thing to mister
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Speaker 6: Wright's point is if somebody is just sitting on a
5:35
Speaker 6: date and they're going on and on and on about
5:38
Speaker 6: their ex husband or their ex you know whatever, boyfriend,
5:41
Speaker 6: or whatever. I don't have time for that because they're
5:44
Speaker 6: not over it, and I'm not going to get involved
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Speaker 6: with somebody who stills looking in the rear view mirror.
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Speaker 2: Mister Wright, what do you think if somebody's on a
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Speaker 2: first date with you and they say that they've been
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Speaker 2: divorced three times?
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Speaker 1: I think I think at that point it's probably a
5:56
Speaker 1: commitment issue.
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Speaker 4: And you know, relationships are hard. Don't get me wrong,
6:00
Speaker 4: they are hard.
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Speaker 1: But if you've called it quits three times and there
6:04
Speaker 1: hasn't been some extenuating circumstances like a cheating or the
6:08
Speaker 1: things I talk about, the big ones, alcohol, drug abuse,
6:11
Speaker 1: physical abuse, you know, money issues.
6:15
Speaker 4: If it's just it.
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Speaker 1: Didn't work out three times, then that person didn't take
6:19
Speaker 1: enough time learning going in and didn't give enough commitment
6:22
Speaker 1: staying in.
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Speaker 3: So your red flags are going up.
6:24
Speaker 2: If somebody says to you on a first date, I've
6:26
Speaker 2: been divorced three times.
6:27
Speaker 5: Well, it depends on the circumstances, it.
6:30
Speaker 1: Does, but I think generally, if somewhere to say I've
6:33
Speaker 1: been divorced three times, I'm definitely curious about those reasons.
6:39
Speaker 4: You know that.
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Speaker 1: Three times, you know, for me once, for me twice,
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Speaker 1: so I think that three times would be would be
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Speaker 1: a hard.
6:48
Speaker 4: Thing to get over.
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Speaker 6: I do think they say that if you've been divorced
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Speaker 6: once and you get married a second time, it's easier
6:55
Speaker 6: to get divorced a second time because you've seen that
6:58
Speaker 6: you can survive it.
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Speaker 5: So for me, you almost take it that much more.
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Speaker 2: So if you're not even easier, it's it's more likely second. Statistically,
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Speaker 2: statistically more marriage second marriages end in divorce because yes,
7:10
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily that it's easier, but you've already gone
7:14
Speaker 2: through it before, so you know what to expect, and
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Speaker 2: that's why second marriages often and in divorce.
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Speaker 5: Yes, right, yeah, proceed with caution.
7:23
Speaker 6: If you're willing to make that commitment again, you have
7:26
Speaker 6: to really feel that it's going to be solid.
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Speaker 2: To me, not that anybody's asking, but it sounds like
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Speaker 2: quite a bit of paperwork and stress to go through
7:37
Speaker 2: a divorce. To have gone through it three times, you know,
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Speaker 2: and still back out there dating again, would definitely I
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Speaker 2: think give pause because it would also if I were
7:51
Speaker 2: on the receiving end of that, it would make me
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Speaker 2: wonder why are they so gung ho to date? It
7:57
Speaker 2: sounds like they're needing some sort of support if they've
8:00
Speaker 2: been through this three times already, which we all know
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Speaker 2: on this zoom that divorce is not cheap. It would
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Speaker 2: be to me, what's the motive, what's the reasoning for
8:09
Speaker 2: getting back out there again? Because you could date with
8:14
Speaker 2: no expectation of marriage, but it seems like marriage is
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Speaker 2: the expectation for somebody that's been divorced three times.
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Speaker 6: Right, But first of all, there's ways to get married
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Speaker 6: a second time. Right. You don't have to share money,
8:26
Speaker 6: and you're probably not going to share kids if you're older.
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Speaker 6: Or there's many people in my life where she wears
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Speaker 6: a ring and they live together but they're not legally married.
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Speaker 6: And then there's just a lot of you know, there's
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Speaker 6: different ways to do a long term committed relationship, especially
8:41
Speaker 6: as you get older. Heather, we got to get you
8:44
Speaker 6: feeling more positive about relationships. So we're gonna have a
8:48
Speaker 6: sidebar on this because I'm like hearing you say now
8:50
Speaker 6: this version of it, like we're going to do some
8:53
Speaker 6: work here.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So Louise, let's take this one to you. When
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Speaker 2: you're dating someone's curiously, how many mistakes do they get?
9:04
Speaker 2: How long till you are fully out. And let's say
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Speaker 2: mistakes are things like not texting back for a few days,
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Speaker 2: or prioritizing other things over the relationship, whether that's buddy
9:16
Speaker 2: buddy time, not kids, not work, but like things that
9:21
Speaker 2: are a choice, whether that's going golfing versus hanging out
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Speaker 2: with you, or maybe forgetting important things, whether that's dates
9:28
Speaker 2: or something that you ask them to attend. So how
9:30
Speaker 2: many mistakes do you let somebody have before you're out
9:34
Speaker 2: when you're dating somebody new.
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Speaker 6: Look, I don't look at a lot of small things
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Speaker 6: as mistakes, right, Like, I think we have to be flexible.
9:44
Speaker 5: We all have a lot going on.
9:45
Speaker 6: But I think there's a degree of respect and accountability
9:48
Speaker 6: and clarity and transparency in a relationship. So for me,
9:52
Speaker 6: you know, if somebody is forgetting to show up somewhere,
9:54
Speaker 6: he's just not that into me, right or it's just
9:56
Speaker 6: not that important. If he is, you know, not you know,
10:02
Speaker 6: dotting his eyes and crossing his t's on certain things,
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Speaker 6: then it depends on what it is.
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Speaker 5: Right. So it's just again, as.
10:09
Speaker 6: You get older, it's there's not it's not like the
10:11
Speaker 6: rules like back in the in the day, there were
10:13
Speaker 6: there were rules.
10:14
Speaker 5: I think It's just it's.
10:15
Speaker 6: Just different and everybody has different triggering kind of points
10:20
Speaker 6: that upset them versus don't upset them.
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Speaker 5: So for me, it just depends on the situation.
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Speaker 6: Now, I have some big red you know, big issues
10:27
Speaker 6: that are like there's no looking back. It's the big
10:30
Speaker 6: ones cheating on me, period, awful, you know, being disrespectful
10:34
Speaker 6: to my family and friends and children.
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Speaker 5: That to me just shows you.
10:39
Speaker 6: I don't like when people are rude to to waitresses
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Speaker 6: and leaders and help staff. That shows me who they are.
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Speaker 6: Different things like that I pay close attention to.
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Speaker 2: Okay, same question for you, mister right what kind of
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Speaker 2: mistakes do you maybe see or would you allow? And
10:57
Speaker 2: which mistakes would you say too many? Miss Now I've
11:00
Speaker 2: got to go this is this is not for me.
11:03
Speaker 4: Well, first of.
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Speaker 1: All, if you have been you know, intentional and communicating
11:06
Speaker 1: and you kind of know what the expectations and boundaries are,
11:09
Speaker 1: then I think there's very little room for for for
11:12
Speaker 1: mistakes in my personal opinion, if you know, things like
11:16
Speaker 1: communication super important, super easy to do too, responding to
11:20
Speaker 1: text super easy. Ghosting somebody even for a couple of
11:23
Speaker 1: days is.
11:24
Speaker 4: I think in my world.
11:25
Speaker 1: So it's like it's it's not that it's inexcusable, but
11:27
Speaker 1: it just shows that that person just doesn't really care
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Speaker 1: that much, you know, repeatedly canceling on things or not
11:33
Speaker 1: showing up, you know, I think is basically, I don't know,
11:36
Speaker 1: it's just a show a sign that to use Louise's line,
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Speaker 1: she's just not dead into you. And so I mean,
11:43
Speaker 1: if someone's doing the big issues of course, cheating or
11:46
Speaker 1: you know, lying or whatever else, that that's that's not
11:48
Speaker 1: gonna that's not gonna fly. But I think that if
11:51
Speaker 1: that person is showing continued disrespect of the boundaries that
11:54
Speaker 1: you've created again back to communication, showing up when you're
11:58
Speaker 1: supposed to, all those kind of little things, if there
12:01
Speaker 1: is a pattern that you're going outside of that, then
12:05
Speaker 1: I think you're I think basically the diet is cast
12:07
Speaker 1: and you know where you stand.
12:09
Speaker 2: Okay, mister Wright, we'll start with you. Who do you
12:13
Speaker 2: turn to for relationship advice?
12:17
Speaker 1: So this is an interesting one. I mean, usually I
12:18
Speaker 1: would say it's the guys. I looked as much to
12:21
Speaker 1: my girlfriends, to my sisters, to my nieces as I
12:26
Speaker 1: do to my guys now, And I don't know, maybe
12:29
Speaker 1: it's just you know, an age thing or a more
12:30
Speaker 1: maturity thing. But I'm you know, I commiserate with my guys,
12:35
Speaker 1: I guess, but I'm probably looking for more advice from
12:38
Speaker 1: the women in my life. And I'm lucky to have
12:40
Speaker 1: super strong women that aren't afraid to tell me, you know,
12:46
Speaker 1: maybe sometimes what I don't want to hear, but they
12:48
Speaker 1: give me good advice. And I think it's a lot
12:50
Speaker 1: more effective to get advice from the opposite sex when
12:54
Speaker 1: talking about relationships than it is going and talking to,
12:57
Speaker 1: you know, my buddies that just want to, you know,
12:59
Speaker 1: make you feel the good.
13:01
Speaker 3: Louise, you agree, tell me about that.
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Speaker 5: I agree.
13:03
Speaker 6: And this is why I think this episode is actually
13:06
Speaker 6: really interesting because I would listen to podcasts like this,
13:10
Speaker 6: and I do hearing the male's perspective, it's really important
13:14
Speaker 6: in terms of helping our side to navigate and to
13:18
Speaker 6: understand and to kind of read the coding and the messages.
13:21
Speaker 5: So I have a guy best friend.
13:23
Speaker 6: There has been zero romantic sexual interest for us since
13:27
Speaker 6: the nineties, and literally we FaceTime in the morning and
13:32
Speaker 6: we just kind of hammer it all out.
13:34
Speaker 5: And I agree with mister Wright.
13:36
Speaker 6: I think opposite sex advice is so valuable.
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Speaker 3: Okay, I like this that we're agreeing on a topic.
13:44
Speaker 4: It's surprising, a little surprising.
13:46
Speaker 5: I think we've agreed on a lot.
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Speaker 2: So Louise, let's start with this one for you. Is
14:01
Speaker 2: casual dating actually casual? And what about casual sex? Can
14:07
Speaker 2: it ever be casual? Let's not just say just for you,
14:10
Speaker 2: just in general? What do you think for men and women?
14:13
Speaker 6: I think it has to For me, it depends on
14:15
Speaker 6: the age. I mean, I'm not a casual dater. I
14:18
Speaker 6: want to I'm intentional about finding a partner, So something
14:22
Speaker 6: that's casual feels like it's kind of lukewarm, neither here
14:25
Speaker 6: nor there. So for me, that's definitely not a person
14:28
Speaker 6: that I'm probably sleeping with And I'm just going to
14:31
Speaker 6: put that to rest because I don't feel a romantic
14:34
Speaker 6: connection and keep looking.
14:35
Speaker 2: But in general, knowing other women, knowing other single men,
14:40
Speaker 2: do you think that casual dating is real and attainable?
14:45
Speaker 2: Do you think casual sex is real and attainable?
14:48
Speaker 3: Sure you do? Okay, great, mister Wright, same question for you.
14:52
Speaker 2: Tell me what you think about when it comes to
14:54
Speaker 2: casual dating or casual sex.
14:58
Speaker 1: So I think that in this kind of chapter two
15:00
Speaker 1: so you know, post divorce. As long as both people
15:05
Speaker 1: know exactly what it is they're getting themselves into, I
15:08
Speaker 1: think casual dating or casual sex is totally can be
15:12
Speaker 1: totally agreeable. The only time that it doesn't work is
15:14
Speaker 1: when one person doesn't realize that it's casual. When one
15:17
Speaker 1: person doesn't realize that actually, this doesn't mean anything or
15:20
Speaker 1: isn't going anywhere.
15:21
Speaker 5: Or catches feelings.
15:23
Speaker 1: Yes, or catches feelings along the way and doesn't explain
15:25
Speaker 1: that because you know, it might be that you know,
15:28
Speaker 1: you have a you know, a vacation coming up, and
15:30
Speaker 1: you know this person and you you know, you have
15:34
Speaker 1: sort of feelings for each other, but it's not serious,
15:37
Speaker 1: and so you go on a trip together, but maybe
15:40
Speaker 1: you're not calling on the Tuesday when you get back,
15:42
Speaker 1: and if one person's expecting that call, wondering why they'ren't
15:45
Speaker 1: you know, why this the next date isn't you know,
15:47
Speaker 1: isn't scheduled, that's when casual dating or casual sex can
15:50
Speaker 1: get really really complicated and destroy what could be a
15:55
Speaker 1: nice friendship or relationship. But I think as long as
15:58
Speaker 1: both people know what they're getting themselves into and are
16:01
Speaker 1: kind of aware of what the parameters are. Then I think,
16:04
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's totally fine, and I think
16:06
Speaker 1: it's it is casual. It is you know, it's because
16:09
Speaker 1: two people are kind of looking for the same thing.
16:11
Speaker 1: They're looking for someone to spend time with. I'mone to
16:14
Speaker 1: have fun with, but maybe not build their life with.
16:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's you said something interesting there in the sense
16:20
Speaker 2: of you made a comment about going on a trip.
16:24
Speaker 2: Let's define what we each think is of casual. Because
16:28
Speaker 2: when I think casual dating, I'm not thinking going on
16:31
Speaker 2: a trip.
16:32
Speaker 3: To me, going on a trip is serious.
16:35
Speaker 2: I'm not spending money and I'm not going a distance
16:39
Speaker 2: with somebody for something casual.
16:41
Speaker 3: If it's casual, that.
16:42
Speaker 2: Means I'm also probably not going to fancy dinners with
16:46
Speaker 2: that person. Right, the investment is low, the level of
16:50
Speaker 2: energy is low. If it's casual, what I would interpret
16:54
Speaker 2: is casual as a single woman would be drinks. And
16:59
Speaker 2: if it is leading to casual intimacy, we have to
17:04
Speaker 2: keep verbalizing out loud that this is casual. There can't
17:08
Speaker 2: be any telepathic communication going on. It needs to actually
17:13
Speaker 2: keep being said that this is fun, this is a hangout.
17:17
Speaker 2: And if I'm in chapter two, it means I'm not
17:20
Speaker 2: meeting your kids. It means you're not meeting my kids.
17:24
Speaker 2: There's no chance of that kind of happening. I'm not
17:27
Speaker 2: meeting your ex, I'm not talking to your ex. I'm
17:30
Speaker 2: probably not meeting your coworkers or your friends. You're not
17:33
Speaker 2: meeting my friends. Those to me, are levels of intimacy.
17:38
Speaker 2: When you start to bring somebody into your inner circle,
17:41
Speaker 2: that makes it not casual.
17:43
Speaker 3: Do you guys agree? Disagree? What do you think about that?
17:46
Speaker 6: When you're introducing this person in a meaningful way to
17:50
Speaker 6: important people in your life, like your kids, then it's
17:54
Speaker 6: not casual. A guy going out with you because your
17:57
Speaker 6: friends are all out one night and you're just hanging
17:59
Speaker 6: out with a guy, going to bring him into a
18:01
Speaker 6: fun night out that can be more casual. You need
18:04
Speaker 6: to have full transparency, and I think somewhere along the way,
18:08
Speaker 6: typically somebody catches more feelings than the other person, and
18:11
Speaker 6: that's when it gets diicy to go on a trip.
18:14
Speaker 6: For me with a guy, it means that we're sleeping
18:18
Speaker 6: together and you're waking up with that person and you're
18:22
Speaker 6: it's different. There's a different level of intimacy. So for me,
18:26
Speaker 6: that's not casual, and I would be pretty bummed if
18:28
Speaker 6: I went on a trip with somebody and he didn't
18:32
Speaker 6: call me the next day.
18:34
Speaker 2: I agree, and it's even. It would also be like,
18:36
Speaker 2: say he's going on a work trip and he has
18:39
Speaker 2: a hotel room being paid for by the company, and
18:41
Speaker 2: he says, come along, you can hang out, But that's
18:44
Speaker 2: still a trip, even if his company is paying for
18:47
Speaker 2: it and he's inviting you. That's you going distance, that's
18:51
Speaker 2: you putting time. I think that there's a difference between
18:56
Speaker 2: boyfriend treatment and.
19:00
Speaker 3: Ual dating.
19:01
Speaker 2: I do not do certain things with a man if
19:05
Speaker 2: he is not my boyfriend.
19:06
Speaker 6: Are you saying you or are you saying in general me, Well,
19:11
Speaker 6: you're a different You're in a different You're almost a
19:14
Speaker 6: different I mean, for me at least a different generation,
19:16
Speaker 6: right sure.
19:17
Speaker 2: But I'm also I'm not in my twenties, and I'm
19:22
Speaker 2: if I'm dating somebody at this age, there's a very
19:26
Speaker 2: high probability that he's in his chapter two at the
19:29
Speaker 2: age range that I'm dating. So I'm just saying, like
19:32
Speaker 2: in general, when we're talking casual, that's how I would
19:36
Speaker 2: define casual as like, casual means low effort, low level
19:42
Speaker 2: of money, being paid, low level of interaction of different
19:48
Speaker 2: parts of my life.
19:50
Speaker 3: That would be what casual is what I define it as.
19:53
Speaker 6: I think people want different things at different chapters. I
19:56
Speaker 6: have friends that are, you know, brand new divorced, and
19:59
Speaker 6: they want thirty one flour right, and they're just going
20:01
Speaker 6: to go out and you know, different night, you know,
20:04
Speaker 6: meet a different guy.
20:05
Speaker 5: Doesn't mean they're.
20:06
Speaker 6: Necessarily going to sleep with them, but then they get
20:09
Speaker 6: tired of it. But I just think it depends that
20:12
Speaker 6: the you know, kind of where you are and at
20:14
Speaker 6: what point, like did you just break up with somebody,
20:16
Speaker 6: do you just want to you know, have you been dating?
20:19
Speaker 5: Are you tired?
20:20
Speaker 6: Did you take a hiatus and now you're really there
20:22
Speaker 6: intentionally looking for your partner. It's not a one size
20:25
Speaker 6: fits all rule that applies, in my opinion, but transparency
20:30
Speaker 6: is the most important thing.
20:32
Speaker 5: Like and you could tell if the guy likes you
20:36
Speaker 5: or doesn't like you. I mean, you can read.
20:38
Speaker 4: A room well.
20:39
Speaker 1: I think you guys should include trips like weekend trips
20:41
Speaker 1: whatever in part of that casual because that that I mean,
20:45
Speaker 1: I think that's that's a big part of casual dating
20:48
Speaker 1: or casual relationships. I think is more than just drinks it,
20:51
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, not meeting face. I think
20:56
Speaker 1: trips are part of it.
20:57
Speaker 4: I think, I think then.
20:58
Speaker 1: And you know, if you're going somewhere where you're both
21:02
Speaker 1: want to have fun, you you're both single, you both
21:04
Speaker 1: want to go and go to a beach vacation or
21:06
Speaker 1: go to a skiing vacation, whatever else, you can keep
21:09
Speaker 1: that casual as well, in my opinion, And again, as
21:13
Speaker 1: long as both people understand what the rules are and
21:15
Speaker 1: one you know, they don't, no one's surprised or hurt
21:18
Speaker 1: or get feelings stomped on because it isn't actually progressing
21:22
Speaker 1: anywhere else. I think I think trips could be included
21:26
Speaker 1: in that casual dating.
21:27
Speaker 6: Okay, interesting, I actually think that that's more of a
21:30
Speaker 6: guy perspective than in my opinion. But maybe you've met
21:35
Speaker 6: different people, mister Wright, who are willing to pack and
21:38
Speaker 6: go and have a great trip and you know, have
21:41
Speaker 6: a wild time and are okay not getting a phone
21:44
Speaker 6: call the next day, I would feel pretty shy about it.
21:47
Speaker 6: Is it?
21:48
Speaker 3: Also?
21:48
Speaker 2: I mean from a man's perspective, is that a way
21:51
Speaker 2: of showing interest and showing a love language, you know,
21:57
Speaker 2: like gift giving is a love language, right, would some
22:01
Speaker 2: man if his love language is giving gifts saying I
22:06
Speaker 2: planned a weekend trip, would you like to come as
22:08
Speaker 2: a way of expressing his love language?
22:10
Speaker 3: Do you think?
22:11
Speaker 4: I mean?
22:11
Speaker 1: It can be, but it could also just be. Hey, listen,
22:14
Speaker 1: we're both single, we both like the beach, we both
22:18
Speaker 1: would you like to go to a spa weekend?
22:19
Speaker 4: Could you know? Whatever it is?
22:20
Speaker 1: And you both want a partner to do that with,
22:23
Speaker 1: maybe not looking to get married or spend the rest
22:26
Speaker 1: of your life with them, but you want to have
22:27
Speaker 1: an adventure, You want to have an experience, and you
22:29
Speaker 1: want to do it with somebody that you're attracted to
22:32
Speaker 1: to some degree. And I think that you know, trips
22:35
Speaker 1: are a great way to express that, and also you know, heck,
22:38
Speaker 1: it's a great way to fast track whether or not
22:40
Speaker 1: maybe you do want to take it to the next level.
22:42
Speaker 6: Well, it can change from casual to serious and a
22:44
Speaker 6: trip can help do that, for sure.
22:47
Speaker 3: It can. But that's only if that's what the intention is, right,
22:52
Speaker 3: But you.
22:52
Speaker 6: Don't have to spell out the intention, right, Like if
22:55
Speaker 6: you're willing to go on a trip with somebody because
22:57
Speaker 6: you have you're interested in.
22:59
Speaker 2: A But mister Wright is saying just to view it
23:03
Speaker 2: as casual and just like away, and you're saying, I
23:06
Speaker 2: only go on trips unless I'm getting serious. I mean,
23:09
Speaker 2: you'd have to you'd have to verbalize. That's where we're
23:13
Speaker 2: talking about the crossing of men and women. Is He's
23:17
Speaker 2: literally saying it's a casual thing. It's just you two
23:19
Speaker 2: being single, and you're saying, I'm only going on a
23:22
Speaker 2: trip with you if we're committed and or if we're
23:27
Speaker 2: leaning towards committed.
23:28
Speaker 6: I didn't say committed, I said but that they're I mean,
23:31
Speaker 6: for me, going on a trip with somebody is not
23:35
Speaker 6: as casual as for example, even of sleepover right and
23:39
Speaker 6: waking up and you know.
23:40
Speaker 1: No, I'm not trying to compare it, but I'm saying
23:42
Speaker 1: you can have these casual adventures. And in chapter two,
23:48
Speaker 1: like you know, if I you know, if I want
23:49
Speaker 1: to go and have an adventure with something, I want
23:51
Speaker 1: to go against skiing, go to the beach, or you know,
23:53
Speaker 1: go to Vegas or go to a concert, or have
23:56
Speaker 1: some adventure and do it with somebody I'm not necessarily
23:59
Speaker 1: commit to. I would you know, I would want to,
24:03
Speaker 1: you know, I would feel totally easy asking somebody that
24:06
Speaker 1: I'm casually dating or whatever else to do that with me,
24:10
Speaker 1: and hopefully they would also see it as not just
24:13
Speaker 1: like we're we're building a relationship together, but we're going
24:16
Speaker 1: and doing something fun and having an adventure. Now if
24:18
Speaker 1: a byproduct of that is that you get closer, that's
24:22
Speaker 1: all the better.
24:23
Speaker 2: I would fully misconstrue that if a guy asked me
24:26
Speaker 2: to go on a trip, I would most likely And
24:28
Speaker 2: it also depends, I guess on how long I've been
24:30
Speaker 2: seeing him. If I've gone on two dates with him
24:33
Speaker 2: and he says, let's go do a weekend in you know,
24:37
Speaker 2: a beach get away, then I'd be like, okay, maybe
24:41
Speaker 2: like we're he just wants to have fun or something.
24:45
Speaker 3: But if I've been seeing him for a month and
24:48
Speaker 3: he wants.
24:48
Speaker 2: To go do a beach get away, it's what the
24:50
Speaker 2: trip is to Like, if we're saying let's let's do
24:52
Speaker 2: let's do a get away to my sister's wedding, Okay,
24:56
Speaker 2: that's something different.
24:57
Speaker 1: But if you're saying let's go, let's go and you
24:59
Speaker 1: see a concert in Vegas for the night, I think
25:02
Speaker 1: everybody kind of has as a good idea of what
25:04
Speaker 1: that what that is, at least that's my opinion.
25:08
Speaker 6: Okay, have you had success, mister Wright, ever doing that
25:12
Speaker 6: in the time that you've been divorced.
25:13
Speaker 4: No, I mean I haven't.
25:15
Speaker 1: I haven't casually dated really, you know, I've I've dated,
25:18
Speaker 1: but dated with intention.
25:19
Speaker 4: So I but I.
25:22
Speaker 1: Do know, like a lot of my friends that you know,
25:25
Speaker 1: they have they have busy schedules, and they have certain
25:29
Speaker 1: weekends off and they don't have a significant person, they'll
25:32
Speaker 1: take They'll find a date to go and say, listen,
25:35
Speaker 1: and I want to go to you know, just to
25:36
Speaker 1: Mexico for for a long weekend. Come, you know, come
25:39
Speaker 1: with me. I want to go and go skiing for
25:41
Speaker 1: you know, for a weekend. Do you want to come
25:42
Speaker 1: with me? And I think everybody kind of knows the
25:45
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're going and doing something together. They're
25:48
Speaker 1: having they're having an adventure, they're having experience. They're doing
25:51
Speaker 1: it with somebody they're obviously somewhat attracted to, or even
25:54
Speaker 1: really attracted to, but maybe they're not just you know,
25:57
Speaker 1: five steps down the aisle towards marriage. But they're just
26:00
Speaker 1: again having a fun weekend, which you're allowed to do.
26:04
Speaker 1: I think I think that's as long as both people
26:06
Speaker 1: are bought in.
26:07
Speaker 6: Absolutely, but you would if you're gonna go do that,
26:11
Speaker 6: then you've dated a little bit and you're having fun.
26:14
Speaker 6: And the hope is is that it will morph into
26:17
Speaker 6: something more serious. Like I don't know many of my
26:21
Speaker 6: friends or girls that would just be like, yeah, this
26:24
Speaker 6: is casual. I'm just gonna go on a trip and
26:25
Speaker 6: we're going to do this and doesn't matter if I
26:27
Speaker 6: hear from him after and I don't know.
26:29
Speaker 5: I mean, Heather, what do you think.
26:32
Speaker 2: My whole thing is? If it's casual, it's a low
26:34
Speaker 2: dollar amount, it's a low time commitment. It's all the
26:37
Speaker 2: investment of it is because time is money.
26:41
Speaker 5: Well, low dollar amount meaning you're paying your way to
26:43
Speaker 5: get there.
26:44
Speaker 2: Right, I'm going on a trip. We're going to a
26:46
Speaker 2: concert in Vegas. That means I'm probably getting my hair done,
26:49
Speaker 2: my nail's done, I'm buying a new outfit. I'm maybe
26:52
Speaker 2: taking a Friday off of work, which means I'm not
26:55
Speaker 2: getting paid. I'm looking for somebody to watch my dog,
26:58
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's like that's money investing.
27:01
Speaker 2: Even if he's buying the plane ticket and he's you know,
27:04
Speaker 2: paying for the room. I'm still investing in it in
27:07
Speaker 2: myself in a way that I maybe I'm also getting
27:10
Speaker 2: him a gift as a thank you, or I'm buying
27:14
Speaker 2: you know, our first dinner when we get there, because
27:16
Speaker 2: I'm not just gonna allow somebody to take me on
27:19
Speaker 2: a trip and not you know, put in for it
27:22
Speaker 2: in some capacity. So to me, that's a bigger commitment
27:26
Speaker 2: investment in time and money on my end for something
27:31
Speaker 2: that I I really could be up or down if
27:35
Speaker 2: this guy ends up, you know, calling me back or
27:37
Speaker 2: not after this trip, you know what I mean, I'd
27:39
Speaker 2: have to I'm not a betting person.
27:41
Speaker 3: If we're talking about Vegas.
27:42
Speaker 2: I need to be a little bit more of a
27:44
Speaker 2: sure thing in order to not get my hopes up.
27:48
Speaker 2: Because that's also what's happening. If somebody's taking me somewhere
27:52
Speaker 2: on a trip. I'm probably telling my girlfriends, Oh, he
27:56
Speaker 2: wants to do a little weekend getaway.
27:57
Speaker 3: It's a good sign.
27:59
Speaker 2: I think we start without casual, but you know what,
28:01
Speaker 2: I think he wants to spend more time with me,
28:03
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And it's like if time
28:05
Speaker 2: is also precious in chapter two, right, time limited time
28:09
Speaker 2: away from kids and things like that, I want to
28:12
Speaker 2: spend it with somebody intentionally, I don't want to spend
28:16
Speaker 2: it with somebody that I'm like, I'm kind of iffy
28:20
Speaker 2: on Gorm exactly. That's what I'm reading. Unless it keeps
28:24
Speaker 2: getting verbalized, Hey, this is casual.
28:28
Speaker 3: I have an extra ticket to Vegas. Would you like
28:31
Speaker 3: to go? It's casual.
28:32
Speaker 2: It just has to keep being verbalized over and over
28:35
Speaker 2: again for it to actually be casual, because if it's not,
28:39
Speaker 2: my brain is doing all sorts of connecting dots and
28:42
Speaker 2: things and what's he saying with this? What's he not
28:45
Speaker 2: saying when he does this kind of thing? But I
28:47
Speaker 2: I I love to hear the man's perspective that you're like,
28:50
Speaker 2: it's just a trip. It's just like it's it's just
28:53
Speaker 2: it's it's just a weekend. I'm looking for somebody to
28:55
Speaker 2: have fun.
28:55
Speaker 6: With as you to go to Vegas to hear, you know,
28:59
Speaker 6: the Eagles coming, Just know that it's casual.
29:01
Speaker 3: Heather, exactly exactly.
29:04
Speaker 5: But I would go.
29:04
Speaker 6: I mean, Eagles was pretty incredible there at the Sphere,
29:07
Speaker 6: So I would say yes if I were you.
29:09
Speaker 2: I mean, this is all really really good intel though,
29:12
Speaker 2: mister Wright, is it ever good to date someone who's
29:15
Speaker 2: separated and not divorced yet.
29:18
Speaker 1: If someone just separated, there's always a chance that they're
29:21
Speaker 1: coming back and they're just testing the waters and they're
29:24
Speaker 1: just trying to feel out what life is like outside
29:26
Speaker 1: of the relationship. So I think I would be cautious,
29:30
Speaker 1: extremely cautious if.
29:32
Speaker 4: They're just saying, oh, we're separated.
29:35
Speaker 1: Oftentimes, both parties have different of the marriage, have different
29:41
Speaker 1: perspectives on what separated means. I mean, I hate to
29:44
Speaker 1: use the friends term, but you know, it was just
29:47
Speaker 1: a break. And I think that if the guy or
29:52
Speaker 1: the girl has a different understanding or a different interpretation
29:57
Speaker 1: of what separated means, we're just taking a break, we're
29:59
Speaker 1: gonna get together, we're working on things, We're going to
30:01
Speaker 1: get back together, or no, no, no, we're just waiting
30:04
Speaker 1: for the divorce to get finalized.
30:06
Speaker 4: I think you have to be super cautious.
30:18
Speaker 3: All right, Louise, tell us your perspective.
30:21
Speaker 6: So I was recently on a date a couple of
30:24
Speaker 6: weeks ago with a guy, and he is never going
30:30
Speaker 6: to get divorced because she's sick and does not want
30:33
Speaker 6: her to lose her medical you know, kind of benefits
30:36
Speaker 6: and I actually really appreciated it because normally, when I
30:40
Speaker 6: meet somebody and they're separated and not divorced, it does
30:43
Speaker 6: give me pause. Like mister Wright is saying, this was
30:45
Speaker 6: the one time where it actually showed me what his
30:48
Speaker 6: character was. And he wasn't for me, but it actually
30:50
Speaker 6: showed me what his character was. And the example he
30:54
Speaker 6: was obviously showing his son. But for the most part,
30:59
Speaker 6: I agree. But I also have friends they've been separated
31:02
Speaker 6: for you know, five, ten, fifteen years because quite fank,
31:05
Speaker 6: they don't want to separate the estate. It's just easier
31:08
Speaker 6: for the estate to stay together, and therefore they're clearly
31:12
Speaker 6: not married and they have long term relationships, but on
31:15
Speaker 6: paper they're still married and they're still filing joint tax returns.
31:18
Speaker 6: If somebody's newly separated, definitely proceed with caution.
31:24
Speaker 2: Good good intel. One more question for you guys. Louise
31:28
Speaker 2: will start with you. What do you think a man
31:30
Speaker 2: is looking for in his fifties versus his thirties? What
31:34
Speaker 2: do you think a woman is looking for in her
31:37
Speaker 2: fifties versus her thirties.
31:39
Speaker 3: Let's see if our answer is align.
31:42
Speaker 6: Are you asking specifically to a guy who's thirty didning
31:45
Speaker 6: a fifty year old woman, or just in general, what
31:49
Speaker 6: a thirty year old wants compared to what a fifty
31:51
Speaker 6: year old wants in general?
31:53
Speaker 2: What do you think a man in his fifties wants
31:56
Speaker 2: now that maybe he didn't want in his thirties.
32:00
Speaker 6: I think he wants a partner who he is best
32:04
Speaker 6: friends with. I think he wants somebody that he is
32:07
Speaker 6: really connected to physically, sexually, emotionally. I think he wants
32:12
Speaker 6: somebody that is aligned with him encore values. I think
32:17
Speaker 6: the stakes are higher. I think a thirty year old
32:21
Speaker 6: is looking for fun, doesn't necessarily know what is going
32:26
Speaker 6: to yet happen in life, where potentially you might need
32:29
Speaker 6: a little bit more in terms of stepping up to
32:34
Speaker 6: the plate. I think you haven't seen as much life
32:37
Speaker 6: at thirty as you've seen at fifty, so you might
32:41
Speaker 6: not be aware of what you.
32:43
Speaker 5: Would really need.
32:45
Speaker 3: And what do you think a woman wants in her
32:46
Speaker 3: fifties versus what she wants in her thirties.
32:49
Speaker 6: I think a woman in her thirties wants somebody who
32:52
Speaker 6: could be an incredible partner, Somebody who could raise children,
32:56
Speaker 6: who can be a great parent provider, Somebody who is
33:03
Speaker 6: a good person that you want to spend time with
33:05
Speaker 6: and hang out with.
33:06
Speaker 5: I think in.
33:08
Speaker 6: Your fifties the woman wants basically the same thing, but
33:12
Speaker 6: maybe a different version or iteration of it. But really
33:15
Speaker 6: a true partner in every sense of the word.
33:18
Speaker 2: Partner meaning contributes financially, does the invisible work at home.
33:24
Speaker 3: Like, what do you mean when you talk about partner?
33:27
Speaker 6: I mean I can speak for myself, right. I want
33:29
Speaker 6: somebody who I'm attracted to. I want to sleep next to.
33:32
Speaker 6: I want to cuddle with, I want to have sex with,
33:34
Speaker 6: I want to laugh with. I want to bring places
33:38
Speaker 6: in my life. You know, I don't need somebody to
33:40
Speaker 6: support me. I need somebody who can pay his own way.
33:42
Speaker 6: I'm not going to support somebody, but I can pay
33:44
Speaker 6: my own bills. Somebody who you know is a good
33:47
Speaker 6: human being, or God forbid the other shoe drops that
33:50
Speaker 6: I can count on him to be there supporting me
33:54
Speaker 6: and behind and somebody who I enjoy and want to
33:58
Speaker 6: laugh with and make coffee for, or just I'm looking
34:00
Speaker 6: for kind of what I didn't have in my marriage.
34:04
Speaker 6: I'm looking for a person that can know me intimately
34:08
Speaker 6: and be my home.
34:10
Speaker 2: For this next chapter, Okay, So financial stability, though in
34:13
Speaker 2: the fifties is probably more.
34:15
Speaker 6: I think it depends howether. I think it depends on
34:17
Speaker 6: so many factors. It's you know, I have friends that
34:20
Speaker 6: you know, completely rely on their partner to pay their bills.
34:25
Speaker 6: So if it's the if they're going to get rid
34:26
Speaker 6: of their monthly check from their ex husband, then they
34:29
Speaker 6: need to make sure that they're pivoting into somebody else
34:31
Speaker 6: who's going to, you know, basically support them. I have
34:34
Speaker 6: friends who earn their own money and that's not as important.
34:38
Speaker 6: I have friends who you know, got a lump sum
34:42
Speaker 6: of money, and it's not It just depends.
34:44
Speaker 5: It's not the same for anybody.
34:47
Speaker 3: But we still don't want to.
34:48
Speaker 2: What I mean is in our thirties, we could maybe
34:53
Speaker 2: not be caring about somebody's financial wellbeing, whether they have money,
34:57
Speaker 2: whether they can pay their bills or not.
34:59
Speaker 3: But when or in our fifties, you can't be broke.
35:02
Speaker 6: You can't be broken in your thirties, right, Like, if
35:05
Speaker 6: you're thinking about raising kids and building a life with somebody,
35:08
Speaker 6: somebody has to be able to generate an income, if
35:10
Speaker 6: not both people, right, sure, can't just you know, have
35:13
Speaker 6: two people just floundering and hoping for the best, and
35:16
Speaker 6: then bring children into the world right they need.
35:18
Speaker 2: Medical children is important to you at thirty. The cost
35:22
Speaker 2: of living could be lower in your thirties and you
35:26
Speaker 2: could maybe squeak by on, you know, one person picking
35:30
Speaker 2: up more of the slack. But in your fifties and
35:34
Speaker 2: maybe you are in chapter two and you do have kids.
35:37
Speaker 2: I'm just saying that the financial thing is maybe more
35:41
Speaker 2: of something that you look at at that age range
35:43
Speaker 2: than maybe you looked at when you were in your thirties.
35:46
Speaker 6: I think it depends on who you are. It's situation
35:49
Speaker 6: by situation. I have friends who will only date rich guys.
35:52
Speaker 2: But did they only date rich guys when they were
35:55
Speaker 2: in their thirties?
35:56
Speaker 5: Probably?
35:57
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, mister Wright, tell me about what you
36:00
Speaker 2: think men are looking for in their fifties versus when
36:03
Speaker 2: they were in their thirties, and the same thing for women.
36:06
Speaker 4: So I'm going to answer a little bit differently.
36:07
Speaker 1: So I think that both men and women in their
36:09
Speaker 1: thirties have a different worldview. They're looking at building their life,
36:13
Speaker 1: they're looking at adventure, they're looking at growing something, and
36:18
Speaker 1: they're looking for a partner to do that. With and
36:21
Speaker 1: you know, eating you know, rawmen out of a you know,
36:24
Speaker 1: off the stovetop. Is it sort of kind of a
36:26
Speaker 1: romantic thing still as you're bootstrapping your life together and
36:29
Speaker 1: building it together. Now, let's talk about in their fifties.
36:34
Speaker 1: And I think that women in their fifties, This is
36:36
Speaker 1: just my opinion. I think women in their fifties are
36:38
Speaker 1: looking much more for stability. I think they're looking for safety, security.
36:44
Speaker 1: They're still obviously adventure and all those sorts of things,
36:46
Speaker 1: but I think if you were to look at a
36:48
Speaker 1: pie chart, it would be heavier weighted towards a sense
36:52
Speaker 1: of security and stability. And I think guys in their
36:54
Speaker 1: fifties they're they're looking for that sense of stability, but
36:58
Speaker 1: they're also looking for probably, you know, to satisfy whatever
37:03
Speaker 1: it was they didn't find in their marriage.
37:06
Speaker 4: And I think that you know.
37:09
Speaker 1: That guys are probably less looking at in their fifties
37:13
Speaker 1: for a long term, committed marriage relationship than women in
37:17
Speaker 1: their fifties, and so I think there's a little bit
37:19
Speaker 1: of a disparate kind of outlook for that period. And
37:25
Speaker 1: I think that it merges again maybe as you get
37:27
Speaker 1: a little bit older.
37:28
Speaker 4: But I think that you know.
37:30
Speaker 1: In that fifties range, I do think that there is
37:34
Speaker 1: a different outlook that is more dramatic than in their thirties.
37:37
Speaker 1: I think thirties you're probably looking for sort of the
37:39
Speaker 1: same things, and that's why you see so many people
37:41
Speaker 1: get married when they're the thirties. In their late twenties
37:42
Speaker 1: and thirties, you're getting married, you're having kids, you're building
37:44
Speaker 1: a life together. Then you get into your fifties, and
37:47
Speaker 1: this is usually around the time when chapter two is
37:49
Speaker 1: are really prevalent. It's because they're looking for two different things.
37:54
Speaker 1: And I think women again are looking for a sense
37:56
Speaker 1: of stability and security, and I think guys are looking
37:59
Speaker 1: to to satisfy whatever it was they didn't get and
38:02
Speaker 1: they didn't see and they didn't achieve in their thirties
38:06
Speaker 1: and forties.
38:06
Speaker 4: Well, this is so fun.
38:07
Speaker 1: Thanks Heather for keeping us on topic and on time. Luis,
38:11
Speaker 1: You're amazing. Thank you for your perspectives, and obviously to
38:14
Speaker 1: all of the listeners that gave us riveting questions compelling
38:19
Speaker 1: comments that kept this podcast going right until the final moments.
38:23
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for listening. Louise over to.
38:25
Speaker 6: You to our listeners. If you are in chapter two.
38:29
Speaker 6: Whether you are enjoying it or not, you need help
38:32
Speaker 6: navigating it.
38:33
Speaker 5: You need different perspectives.
38:35
Speaker 6: Here we are at ID Part two in iHeartRadio podcast,
38:39
Speaker 6: where falling in love is the main objective. Send us
38:42
Speaker 6: an email, leave us a voicemail. All of the infos
38:46
Speaker 6: and the show notes. Follow us on socials.