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China Has Big Plans for Mars · Made of Stars

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  Speaker 1: Warning, the following podcast contains an entertaining look at astronomy, physics,
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  Speaker 1: and space news throughout the known universe. Listeners have been
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  Speaker 1: known to learn about astronomical phenomenon, the scientific method, and
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  Speaker 1: expand their vocabulary to include terms like quasar, asterism, and Uranus.
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  Speaker 1: Listen at your own risk.
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  Speaker 2: Go ahead. We're made of stars. Made of stars. Made
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  Speaker 2: of stars.
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  Speaker 3: We're made of stars.
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  Speaker 2: We really are. You could be from Hollywood, New Mexico,
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  Speaker 2: or Mars.
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  Speaker 1: We're all made of stars.
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  Speaker 3: We are made of stars. I'm Wes Carroll joined by
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  Speaker 3: my good friend, Dr. Sean Cruz and executive director at
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  Speaker 3: Columbus state university's Coca-Cola space science center.
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  Speaker 4: Hey Sean.
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  Speaker 2: Hey Wes. Good to be here.
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  Speaker 3: Uh, so we finished up dragon con. It was another, uh, 75,000
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  Speaker 3: plus people gathering together to celebrate everything nerdy, including all
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  Speaker 3: of the science fiction and fantasy stuff. But as we
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  Speaker 3: have focused on many, many times for many, many years,
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  Speaker 3: also the science and the space tracks that they have
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  Speaker 3: there as well. And over the last few weeks, you
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  Speaker 3: and I have been chatting with some of the guests
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  Speaker 3: who attended as professionals, former NASA JPL staff that did
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  Speaker 3: some incredible work over the years. And we had a
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  Speaker 3: chance to talk with both of them and they were
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  Speaker 3: there this year. Now DragonCon, because it's so big and
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  Speaker 3: there's so many places to go and so many people
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  Speaker 3: moving around and, And one of the things that makes
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  Speaker 3: DragonCon different than other conventions is the fact that it
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  Speaker 3: is not all in one big convention center. And that's
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  Speaker 3: kind of typical for conventions, and that means at like
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  Speaker 3: 5 or 6 o'clock, the doors close and everybody leaves
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  Speaker 3: and goes back to a hotel or goes out for
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  Speaker 3: a meal. DragonCon, there's a convention center there. It's America's Mart,
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  Speaker 3: which is like a convention center where they put in
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  Speaker 3: all the vendors and things and multiple floors. But the
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  Speaker 3: actual activities of DragonCon take place in the host hotels.
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  Speaker 3: So it's just constantly this giant costume party that does
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  Speaker 3: not stop from Thursday until Monday. And truthfully now it
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  Speaker 3: kind of starts on Sunday or Monday and it runs
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  Speaker 3: all the way through. So it's basically a full week
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  Speaker 3: of this huge party that takes place. And you are,
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  Speaker 3: you know, it's sometimes it's hard to get to all
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  Speaker 3: the hotels to all the things and you kind of
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  Speaker 3: have to pick the things that you're going to get to.
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  Speaker 3: And as much as I wanted to go visit our
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  Speaker 3: new friends at the space track, I had other places
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  Speaker 3: to be at different times. So catching up with them
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  Speaker 3: will be something we'll have to do down the line.
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  Speaker 3: But anyway, I just wanted to say thanks again to
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  Speaker 3: you guys at the Coca-Cola Space Science Center for sponsoring
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  Speaker 3: our coverage of Dragon Con this year and for many,
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  Speaker 3: many years. And that also includes for the DragonCon pregame
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  Speaker 3: show that was on about 200 radio stations around Georgia
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  Speaker 3: and Alabama and Tennessee and all the states it bleeds
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  Speaker 3: over from, from the stations that are kind of, most
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  Speaker 3: of them based in Georgia, but some of them have,
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  Speaker 3: you know, towers in those other states nearby, Florida and
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  Speaker 3: the Carolinas. So anyway, and then of course the DragonCon
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  Speaker 3: pregame show podcast where We've got this year's interview with
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  Speaker 3: Tricia Helfer from Battlestar Galactica and a certain guy named
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  Speaker 3: Sean Cruzan is on there as well talking about space
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  Speaker 3: and science fiction and all that fun stuff. And then
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  Speaker 3: I did a game day edition as well this year
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  Speaker 3: where I actually met with some of the vendors and
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  Speaker 3: talked to them to spotlight them because, you know, DragonCon
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  Speaker 3: for all the things that it is, it's also, you know,
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  Speaker 3: the vendors are a big part of what makes the
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  Speaker 3: convention happen and one of the big draws for it.
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  Speaker 3: So I had a chance to do that as well.
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  Speaker 3: But wherever you're listening to this podcast, you can find
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  Speaker 3: the DragonCon pregame show podcast with this year's interviews as
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  Speaker 3: well as all of the interviews from past pregame shows.
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  Speaker 4: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: And the impact right here on this podcast, too. First
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  Speaker 2: of all, if you can't imagine the future, you can't
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  Speaker 2: create it. And so from a scientific perspective or an
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  Speaker 2: engineering perspective, if you can't imagine... the kinds of technologies
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  Speaker 2: that could exist, you're not going to be the one
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  Speaker 2: that's going to lead the way in creating them. So
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  Speaker 2: this is where I feel like science fiction is really
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  Speaker 2: important for the thinking process of future scientists and engineers.
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  Speaker 2: And besides here at Space Science Center, you know, where
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  Speaker 2: we deal with a lot of college students, there was
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  Speaker 2: that one kid who actually really liked sci-fi. Oh, no, wait,
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  Speaker 2: that's all of them. I'm sorry. All of them, right?
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  Speaker 2: And so we kind of know that it's a... It's
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  Speaker 2: a secret glue that kind of bonds the science community together.
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  Speaker 2: They also enjoy science fiction. So that's why we're proud
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  Speaker 2: to be part of the DragonCon coverage. Now, if you're
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  Speaker 2: listening to this podcast and you haven't yet gotten a
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  Speaker 2: chance to hear Kim Stedman and Trina Ray, both JPL
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  Speaker 2: engineers who we interviewed as part of our lead up
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  Speaker 2: to DragonCon and both guests at DragonCon in the space section,
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  Speaker 2: go back and hear those interviews. They're really great. They
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  Speaker 2: talk a lot about what it takes to become a
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  Speaker 2: team member at JPL and some of the amazing and
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  Speaker 2: fascinating stories behind some of those missions out to the
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  Speaker 2: outer solar system, like the Cassini mission, like Voyager, like
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  Speaker 2: the upcoming Dragonfly mission to the moon Titan around Saturn. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: go back and make sure and check out those interview
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  Speaker 2: podcasts here on Made of Stars.
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  Speaker 3: Let's get into some science that's taking place in this, uh,
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  Speaker 3: this particular first story that we have this week is
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  Speaker 3: one of those ones that, uh, much like last week's
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  Speaker 3: first story pains me a little bit to even talk
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  Speaker 3: about it because we we've talked many, many times over
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  Speaker 3: the years about this new space race that we are
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  Speaker 3: in and how it is very different, uh, in so
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  Speaker 3: many ways to, you know, the, the OG space race. Um,
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  Speaker 3: because we have these private companies involved and we have
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  Speaker 3: all these different things that are sort of part of
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  Speaker 3: this space race that's going on, but you can't have
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  Speaker 3: a true space race without having, you know, the good
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  Speaker 3: guys and the bad guys and just putting it bluntly. And,
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  Speaker 3: and this first story we've got is about, you know,
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  Speaker 3: the other team in, in the space race, uh, that, uh,
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  Speaker 3: may be able to accomplish something before we can. And, uh,
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  Speaker 3: it's kind of a big thing.
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  Speaker 2: You know, there are times when other nations work quite
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  Speaker 2: well with the United States on joint programming in space.
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  Speaker 2: And of course, the International Space Station, I believe, is
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  Speaker 2: maybe America's greatest example of collaborations with other countries on
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  Speaker 2: the space mission, but also Hubble Space Telescope, working with
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  Speaker 2: the European Space Agency, James Webb Space Telescope, even the
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  Speaker 2: Artemis II mission, with the Canadian astronaut Jeremy Hansen. There's
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  Speaker 2: lots of times where we work just fine with other nations.
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  Speaker 2: And so we're not trying to say what we're saying
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  Speaker 2: just to be, oh, I don't know, provocative in an
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  Speaker 2: international sense. However, there are other nations that clearly are
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  Speaker 2: competing with the United States on many fronts and in
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  Speaker 2: many arenas, economically, militarily, otherwise. that we might consider a, well,
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  Speaker 2: it's a competitor that has a bit of a negative
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  Speaker 2: edge to the competition. And China is certainly one of those.
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  Speaker 2: And without going into political depths here, just to say
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  Speaker 2: that they are a nation, I believe, that we recognize
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  Speaker 2: that we don't necessarily want to just abdicate authority or
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  Speaker 2: leadership in the world in the world arena to them
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  Speaker 2: necessarily because they have just kind of a different view
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  Speaker 2: of geopolitical matters. Okay, so let me get off that
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  Speaker 2: stool and just say, well, here's what's happening, friends. China's
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  Speaker 2: doing really well with their space program. And the story
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  Speaker 2: I have here for Wes and I to discuss is
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  Speaker 2: a story on how China is on track to launch
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  Speaker 2: a Mars sample return mission in 2028. which is a
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  Speaker 2: mere two years away. But before I jump into that story,
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  Speaker 2: I want to also say that if you're a fan
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  Speaker 2: of Artemis and you're a fan of NASA and its
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  Speaker 2: efforts to return to the moon, remember that the place
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  Speaker 2: that we want to go is a crater on the
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  Speaker 2: very south pole of the moon called the Shackleton Crater.
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  Speaker 2: Why do we want to go there? Because inside of that,
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  Speaker 2: we've recognized several pieces of evidence that lead us to
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  Speaker 2: believe that there are water resources. Embedded in that crater
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  Speaker 2: and once on the moon water can help you make
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  Speaker 2: well water so you can drink it but what water
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  Speaker 2: ice can also lead to things like fuel and breathing
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  Speaker 2: air and other things that are very important for colonists
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  Speaker 2: on a world that does not necessarily have an atmosphere
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  Speaker 2: or liquid water, so It's important to understand that China
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  Speaker 2: has a mission called the Chungha 7 And the Chang'e
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  Speaker 2: 7 mission is going to that same crater. And you
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  Speaker 2: might think, well, you know, the moon's a big place.
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  Speaker 2: We can all just explore in peace and share resources
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  Speaker 2: on the moon, and there's plenty to go around. No. No,
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  Speaker 2: not at the South Pole. There's only one big crater
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  Speaker 2: called the Shackleton Crater that has water resources identified in it,
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  Speaker 2: and that's where we're going with Artemis IV, That's also
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  Speaker 2: where China is going with Chang'e 7. So just keep
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  Speaker 2: in mind, there's already a bit of robotic exploration competition
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  Speaker 2: ahead of possible human missions to that very remote, but
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  Speaker 2: yet very resource important part of the moon. Now, putting
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  Speaker 2: that into context, here's a story on space.com that says
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  Speaker 2: China is on track to launch Mars sample return mission
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  Speaker 2: in 2028. So China is apparently making progress on bringing
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  Speaker 2: Mars samples back to Earth By 2031, and quoting the
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  Speaker 2: source of the China National Space Administration, they say the
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  Speaker 2: Tianwen-3 mission to Mars will have a lander, an ascender,
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  Speaker 2: a service capsule, that's a part that stays in orbit
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  Speaker 2: to act as a ship to go back home, an orbiter,
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  Speaker 2: and then an Earth re-entering module. So the orbiter will
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  Speaker 2: bring the Earth reentry module back to Earth orbit and
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  Speaker 2: then drop that module back into Earth's atmosphere. If all
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  Speaker 2: goes to plan, the Tianwen-3 will launch in 2028 in
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  Speaker 2: two pieces on the two Long March 5 heavy lift rockets.
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  Speaker 2: That's the Chinese version of something that's on par with
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  Speaker 2: the Falcon Heavy or something like that from SpaceX. They're
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  Speaker 2: going to launch from their launch site in the southernmost
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  Speaker 2: part of China's province. Anyway... They're going to go up
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  Speaker 2: to Mars, collect samples, and with all of those mechanisms
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  Speaker 2: we just described, return them to the Earth. Now, the U.S.
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  Speaker 2: space program has had a sample return mission in planning
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  Speaker 2: for a long time. In fact, we have a rover
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  Speaker 2: up there called Perseverance that's collecting really important samples that
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  Speaker 2: we think are maybe like at the 90% level of
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  Speaker 2: having evidence of life. on Mars, and we're sticking those
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  Speaker 2: samples in tubes, we're shoving them into the dirt, and
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  Speaker 2: we're waiting for a future Mars mission to go up
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  Speaker 2: there and collect them. Well, the problem is that NASA's
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  Speaker 2: plan is still, according to some, a tad murky at
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  Speaker 2: the moment. We don't have a clear plan. Well, China
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  Speaker 2: is actually making a clear plan that has really clear
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  Speaker 2: milestones for bringing back samples from Mars. Now, what would
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  Speaker 2: that mean? Well, it might mean that one of our
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  Speaker 2: major competitors in space, maybe our most major competitor in space, China,
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  Speaker 2: will be the first country to actually bring back evidence
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  Speaker 2: of finding life on another planet. Don't believe me, friends.
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  Speaker 2: Listen to Scott Hubbard, who's the former NASA, they call
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  Speaker 2: him the Mars czar, but leading the NASA Mars Investigation
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  Speaker 2: Program's Scott Hubbard says this, quote, if accurate, this represents
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  Speaker 2: a Sputnik moment for the United States. China will not
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  Speaker 2: only grab the headlines, but may actually be the first
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  Speaker 2: to find evidence of life on another planet. Unquote. Now,
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  Speaker 2: Scott Hubbard was previously the director of the NASA Ames
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  Speaker 2: Research Center in Silicon Valley, and he shared this interview
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  Speaker 2: with Space.com. But that's a very important former NASA official saying, hey, friends,
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  Speaker 2: this in our minds ought to be equivalent to the
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  Speaker 2: Sputnik moment, which triggered the space race with the Russians.
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  Speaker 2: So that's an important comment. It's an important moment in
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  Speaker 2: our competition to lead the way in space exploration. And
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  Speaker 2: so wake up, everybody in the U.S. We have a
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  Speaker 2: full-fledged space race on our hands. And it's with China.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't think we want to abdicate leadership to
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  Speaker 2: that country or program.
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  Speaker 3: My question in this, and I feel like this is
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  Speaker 3: probably not necessarily one for you to answer. I'm just
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  Speaker 3: throwing out this as a question in general. And when
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  Speaker 3: I saw the story, I thought, oh, this could be
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  Speaker 3: really bad, obviously, in a space race. And then I
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  Speaker 3: can't help but wonder, like, Do we think that they're
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  Speaker 3: in a place where this is going to be something
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  Speaker 3: that they're capable of doing by this point? I mean,
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  Speaker 3: have we seen anything from them that makes us think
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  Speaker 3: they are pacing towards being able to do all of
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  Speaker 3: these things that they're saying that they're going to do?
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  Speaker 3: Because as we have discussed many, many times before, space
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  Speaker 3: is hard.
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  Speaker 2: Space is hard, and it's true. But what they have done,
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  Speaker 2: they put an autonomous rover on the far side of
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  Speaker 2: the moon. That autonomous rover worked very well. It collected samples,
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  Speaker 2: and they were able to return those samples back to Earth.
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  Speaker 2: So they have already done an autonomous sample return mission
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  Speaker 2: to the lunar surface. So they have definitely demonstrated some
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  Speaker 2: of their technological capabilities on the nearest external body to
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  Speaker 2: the Earth, which is the moon. That's what we're trying
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  Speaker 2: to do with the Artemis program. Quite frankly, some of
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  Speaker 2: our private companies like Intuitive Machines, that's what they were
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  Speaker 2: trying to do with their various missions. And so our
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  Speaker 2: spacecraft are falling over in craters and not operating. China's
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  Speaker 2: rovers were very successful in collecting those samples and returning
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  Speaker 2: them to the Earth through a similar set of systems.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, they have demonstrated their ability to do this.
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  Speaker 2: And we're probably not going to beat them to Mars
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  Speaker 2: by 2031. So the question is, are we going to
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  Speaker 2: even try to compete? Like, are we going to have
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  Speaker 2: missions that are going somewhat close to that so that
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  Speaker 2: we can, you know, say, hey, if they drop the ball,
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  Speaker 2: we're going to be right there in their shadow to
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  Speaker 2: pick it up and run, right? So that's really the question.
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  Speaker 2: And as you know, the NASA space program is very
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  Speaker 2: much focused on the moon right now, not necessarily on Mars. Right.
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  Speaker 2: So in terms of our national space program, well, that's
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  Speaker 2: just kind of the status of things. There is this
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  Speaker 2: company with an X in their name that are building
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  Speaker 2: these giant starships that, yes, are trying to complete NASA contracts,
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  Speaker 2: but could also take people to Mars, potentially in a
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  Speaker 2: reasonably short time, potentially to let them walk around and
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  Speaker 2: grab samples themselves. You know what the best sample return
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  Speaker 2: robots are that we've ever sent to another world? Human beings.
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  Speaker 2: They just kind of know how to pick up rocks
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  Speaker 2: and stick them in a bag and bring them back
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  Speaker 2: home again. So, yeah. That's the one dark horse that
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  Speaker 2: we have on the American side of the equation.
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  Speaker 4: And you have to just assume that they're capable of.
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  Speaker 3: Doing everything that they say that they can do if
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  Speaker 3: you're going to truly be in sort of a space
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  Speaker 3: race with them.
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  Speaker 4: And so that's, I guess, where we are.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, unlike other competitor nations and, you know, Nations
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  Speaker 2: that somehow get in the news on occasion, North Korea,
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  Speaker 2: whoever that might be, sometimes what they claim they can
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  Speaker 2: do and what they actually do, and quite frankly, even
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  Speaker 2: the Russians on occasion are in this category, there's a
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  Speaker 2: little bit of a delta there. There's a bit of
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  Speaker 2: a gap. Well, China, though, is actually demonstrating it. They
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  Speaker 2: have their own space station. They've completed successful robotic lunar missions.
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  Speaker 2: They are working rapidly towards sending their own people to
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  Speaker 2: that South Pole crater on the moon where we're trying
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: to get and actually claim those resources. By the way,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: it may be subject for a future podcast, but there's
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: a whole interesting story about the legality or the international
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  Speaker 2: law pertaining to mineral rights and access on another world
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  Speaker 2: and who actually has the rights, things like that. So,
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  Speaker 2: you know, there's what international law might say or international
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: agreements might agree to. But then there's also the rule
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: of possession, like possessions nine-tenths. If I just go there first,
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  Speaker 2: what are you going to do about it? And so, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so we're watching that all unfold both as we get
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  Speaker 2: ready to explore the moon and Mars. So clearly China
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  Speaker 2: is our number one competitor in both of those arenas.
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  Speaker 3: More made of stars right after this. It seems that
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: the launch of the Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope could
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: not have gone any better. And by most of the,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: you know, just recapping everything that happened with the launch
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: and its placement, I mean.
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  Speaker 4: Could it have gone any better? It doesn't sound like it.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: And then I guess what's the next step for the
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: telescope itself?
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, I'm going to say this. I try
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: never to be a SpaceX fanboy on here, but there's
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: a lot to say about SpaceX. And we had a
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: lot to say about SpaceX last week. But one of
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: the other things is... is the SpaceX Falcon Heavy delivered
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: a near perfect deployment of this giant space telescope, the
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope. They launched on the 30th
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: of August. And What is now being said by NASA
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  Speaker 2: officials is that this delivery by the SpaceX Falcon Heavy
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: of that important space telescope was so picture perfect that
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: the telescope itself, which is a spacecraft, by the way,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: will have to use so little of its fuel in
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: order to adjust its trajectory that it's going to have
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of fuel to extend its life. So the
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: original onboard fuel that was planned for was something on
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  Speaker 2: the order of five years of ability to modify its
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: orbit and keep it where it needs to be to
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: do its science. But they had to use so little
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: of that fuel for a trajectory adjustment burns because the
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Falcon Heavy delivered it so perfectly that they think they
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: now may have a full decade of operation on that telescope.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: In other words, an additional five years of fuel beyond
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: the five years of fuel they were planning on. That
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: is a staggering success for the rocket and for its
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: ability to deploy that heavy payload near perfectly. So now,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: without much help at all from the telescope itself, that
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope is on its way out
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: to the L2 point, which is the second Sun-Earth balance point,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: or called a Lagrange point. It's going to take about
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: three months to get out there, about a three-month voyage
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: out there. It's going to be situated about 750,000 miles
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: beyond the moon, so nearly a million miles from the Earth.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: The Roman Space Telescope, when it gets out there and
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: gets exactly in the orbit around that L2 point that
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: it needs to be, it will begin to do its
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: science mission there. And again, this should start in roughly
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: a little bit more than three months. And at that time,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: the Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope will begin recording data
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: on dark energy, dark matter, and exoplanets, three of the
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: leading mysteries of our universe that we need to know
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: more about in the astronomical community. Julie McHenry, the Roman's
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: senior project scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, had
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: this to say, quote, A launch is such a transition point.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: It's a transition because it's the end point for the engineers,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: but it's the starting point for the scientists. And they
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: go on to say, quote, the Roman Space Telescope will
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: contribute to world-changing science. Roman will become a household name
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: along those great instruments of discovery, unquote. And those great
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: instruments of discovery include the Hubble Space Telescope, and the
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: James Webb Space Telescope. The latter quote there from Jared Isaacman,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: the director of NASA. So yeah, we're seeing now almost
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: perfect deployment of the instrument. It's gliding out right to
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: where it needs to be, and we'll be able to
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: use very little fuel to be able to do that.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Leading that fuel to keep it in its proper orbit
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: around the L2 point for a much longer period of time.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Things are going swimmingly. for the Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope. Now,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: that doesn't mean it's completely out of the woods. It's
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: got to get out to that point and then be
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: able to deploy its science instruments. But things are sure
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: going well with all of the milestones that it's checked
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: off to this point, Wes.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: So we have this new telescope to talk about. We
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: have James Webb to talk about.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: And we can't forget about Hubble. Hubble's still hubbling.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Hubble is still hubbling. It's amazing, actually. And there's a
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: new discovery from the Hubble Space Telescope, which is this.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: It took a good long look at the planet Saturn.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: You might think, well, hasn't it looked at the planet
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Saturn before? Remember this, folks. The planet Saturn's orbit is
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: 30 years, roughly. And so it takes a long time
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: for it to go around the sun, which means sometimes
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: we're looking at the north pole of Saturn. Other times
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: during that long 31-year orbit, we're looking at the south
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: pole of Saturn and That's where we're moving to now.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: We're moving into a relative position that reveals the South
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Pole of Saturn a bit better here from the Earth.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And that's where the Hubble Space Telescope is. It's still
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: around Earth orbit. It's not out there at one of
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: these Lagrange points. So that means we have a new
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: opportunity to observe the South Pole of Saturn. And what
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Hubble Space Telescope has discovered is a weird, evolving, 10-sided
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: atmospheric structure Called a Decagon.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: Decagon.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Well done.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: That was good. It just seems like the right way
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: to say it. It's a Decagon.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Straight from Dragon Con.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so yeah, the Decagon.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it sounds like maybe like a.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: As a guy who collects dice, I'm just saying, you know.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know if we've ever discussed that on the show,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: but I have an extremely large collection of dice and...
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: It comes up often in conversation around my house with
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: my bride, who's like, that's enough.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Does she ever say, that's a decagon?
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: She hasn't said that.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: No?
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: But, you know, I got a very thoughtful gift, by
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: the way, for my buddy Jay, who gave me a
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: 50-sided die for my 50th birthday. And I was like,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: this is so on point. And, you know, so I
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: figure it's worth mentioning. Jay Holt, by the way, he
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: deserves getting his whole name said for that. It's very thoughtful.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Good on you, Jay.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well done.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: That was a good call.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you get those gifts where you go, this is
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: so thoughtful. Like, this is just dead on the nose.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Where does one find a 50-sided die?
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: He ordered this thing from somewhere. I don't know. But
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: you could probably find a Decagon, you know, if you
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: wanted to.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I would think. I would think there's probably a Decagon
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: out there.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: There's one on the South Pole of Saturn, as it
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: turns out. Oh, wait, that's the story.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: I want one made out of whatever this thing is.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, you do. You want it made out of Saturn material.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: That would be great. This discovery marks the first time
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: that a large, regular-sided jet pattern has been observed in
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the planet's southern hemisphere. So the feature appears remarkably similar
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: to Saturn's famous hexagon shape in the northern hemisphere. polar
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: region of Saturn. Now look, so you're hearing the story,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: you might be going, wait a minute. I kind of
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: remember this. There's like, you know, Saturn has these sort
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: of concentric, we call them belts and zones, the light
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: stripes and dark stripes. But then as you get down
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: to the pole, it kind of breaks down into this
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: kind of flat sided geometric figure. Why do I remember
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: this story? That's the hexagon story. It's from several years
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: ago that the hexagon around the North pole in Saturn's
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: atmosphere was discovered. This is a decagon in the southern
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: polar region. It's weird, friends, that these very flat-sided geometric
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: figures are somehow forming due to the rotation and turbulent
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: processes taking place in the magnetohydrodynamic environment of Saturn's outer atmosphere.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: It's not necessarily a shape we see in fluid environments
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: very often, which is what makes it strange. And so
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: that's leading to the head scratching and back to the
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: chalkboard behavior among the theoretical scientists, which study the magneto-hydrodynamic
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: environment of Saturn's atmosphere or gas giant atmospheres in general. Okay,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: so from the University of California, Berkeley, Mike Wong, study
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: co-author said this, quote, we expected compelling surprises. but we
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: didn't know what to expect specifically. A lot of the
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: discoveries we are seeing come from OPAL, which is an
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: instrument aboard the Hubble Space Telescope, and a data processing
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: of instruments up there, come from OPAL and are not
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: based on one observation, but on years and years of
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: data collection. Regular observations over time are enabling a lot
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: of new findings. Mike Wong, University of California, Berkeley. The
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: new finding, a decagon. An unexpected, as he says, decagon.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: All right, so the team plans to continue observing Saturn
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: to determine whether the decagon settles into a long-lived, stable
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: configuration like the northern hexagon or if it continues to
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: evolve into something else. that's the that's the interesting thing
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: once you see a feature that is so pronounced in
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: one of the atmospheres of one of the gas giants
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: or ice giant planets with these incredible thick atmospheric structures
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: you have to say well is this something we're just
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: we just happen to be seeing because we picked a
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: coincidental time just the right time and it suddenly formed
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: a decagon but that's not going to be around long
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: or is this 10-sided structure going to be up there
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: for a prolonged period of time, and it's a stable configuration?
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: That's what remains to be seen, friends. So there we are.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: We're now waiting on a new series of observations of
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the South Pole of Saturn to see whether or not
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the decagon will be around for a while, or whether
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: it's a very transient and short-period phenomenon.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: More made of stars right after this. They have narrowed
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: it down to four and now you have your chance
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: to vote.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: On the name of.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Virgin Galactic's new space plane. I first saw this, I
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: think there were definitely more than four names the first
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: time I saw it, but they've whittled it down at
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: this point to the final four. And I'll be honest
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: with you, the four names, I have one that I
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: like the most.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: But.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: These are all solid names for this ship. But basically,
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: to suggest a name, you had to be, what, an
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: employee of Virgin Galactic or a ticket-holding customer. That's right.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: And I am neither, so I did not get to
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: suggest my name of Decagon.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: I thought that would be a good name.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: But you've been so appropriate and on point. It's almost
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: like I saw this coming. Before we jump into the
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: depths of the story, I'm sorry, Virgin who? I mean,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I don't mean to be mean to Richard Branson, but
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: they've kind of been out of the picture for a
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: little while. And the last time they took a flight,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: it was all employees. And then when they got off
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: that flight, Richard himself went. The ship was kind of broken.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: It had cracks all over it. And then we just
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: kind of didn't hear from them for a while. They
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: had that big spaceport built out in New Mexico. Are
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: they even using that thing anymore? We don't know.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: So Virgin Galactic. Hey, you know, 15 years ago, Wes,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: you and I were talking with bated breath about the
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: potential commercial spaceflight options that were out there. And Virgin
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Galactic was one of those early adopters, right? So they
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: were one of the early companies providing potential flights into
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: suborbital space. And we were rooting for, I would say
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: we were actively rooting for them at that time. Now
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: they just kind of, I don't know why they feel
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: a bit irrelevant with what's going on at SpaceX and
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: at Blue Origin. But okay, all right, but they're not irrelevant.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: And as you say, they're trying to do some good PR.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: They built a new plane that hopefully doesn't have cracks
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: in it anymore, a space plane. And they're letting their
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: potential interested parties name it. And as you said, the
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: first round of name whittling were with employees and ticket holders.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: That's great. The four names they got it down to
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: were Horizon, Explorer, ascend, and apiron. If you don't know
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: what apiron is, neither do I. I don't know either.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have known. But apparently, I don't know my
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Greek that well, especially not my ancient Greek. So the
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: word apiron comes from the ancient Greek philosophy, and it
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: is often translated as unlimited, boundless, or infinite. That seems
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: like three more names.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it also seems very ambitious considering the last
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: time they were on the plane or a different plane.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: When they were clearly limited, bounded, and not infinite.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it just seems a little presumptuous, that's all.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: It's like, you know, It's like a golden delicious apple.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Like that's just too much. Just be golden or be delicious.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: You're doing both and it's showing.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: Off is what you're doing.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Just be granny or Smith. One or the other.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: Red delicious is fine. I don't have an issue. Red's
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: not like, you know, you're just doubling down on this
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: golden delicious thing. That's all. I just think it's a
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: bit much.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: So you think that the golden delicious is more presumptuous
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: than the red delicious? Is that what I'm hearing?
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: Yes, I do. I think Red Delicious.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: I don't have any issue with Red. It's the golden
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: and the delicious I got problems with together. But nothing
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: beats it.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: What about the unlimited, boundless, and infinite apple? What about
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: that one?
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a bit much.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: But that might have complied to the Granny Smith, which,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: of course, is the best apple.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: So I'm glad you mentioned Granny.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: I like Ascend for a name, by the way. If
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I were voting, if I were casting a vote on
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: this American Idol that is this game that they're playing
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: here with Virgin Galactic, I would have voted for Ascend.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: And when I first saw the like 10 names or
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: whatever they were down to, I'm like, that should be
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: the name.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: But they're going to go with this Greek thing. That's
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: what they're going to do.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Possibly, possibly. So Explorer, I mean, Explorer was the name
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: of the early NASA satellite.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Horizon, I think that was an oil well in the Gulf.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Was that?
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: You know, those are fine. Those are fine.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: They're not as good as the other two, but, you know,
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: they're going with one of the A's.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Appiron clearly seems like the golden delicious of the spacecraft
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: naming community.
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: It's just a bit much. It's a little bit much.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you. I like Ascend as well. Ascend
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: seems like a good one.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Well, we're going to know soon enough. How do people vote?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: They actually opened this up for the month of August.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: for folks to vote. They extended the voting date. I'm
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: sorry we didn't let you know earlier, Made of Stars fans.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: But if you're like Wes, you already knew. So they
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: extended the date for naming suggestions through the September 3rd.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: They allowed you to vote on one of those four names.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: And now the world awaits to see.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: All the voting is done.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: I thought we were still able to vote.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no. September 3rd, they shut it down. We
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: are now in the wait and see mode, friends. And
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: the company hopes to resume space tourism flights February or
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: March of 2027, hopefully before that period of time, they'll
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: actually have a name. So, you know, in the next
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: few months we'll, we'll hear possibly the name. Hopefully it's
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: a sin. That does seem like the best choice. Uh,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: but here's the, here's the interesting thing that as Virgin
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Galactic gets ready to resume its space tourism flights and,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: you know, God bless them. I wish them the best
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: of success on that. Uh, picking on them a little
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: bit at the first of the story, just because we
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: haven't heard from them in a while. They kind of
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: went into the dark, silent engineering mode. They're back out
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: of that now, but it's very fortuitous timing because Blue
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Origin in January is going to be halting all of
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: its commercial operations, which means, you know, the Katy Perry,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Michael Strahan flights to space are going to pull up.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: And the reason they're doing that is because Blue Origin
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: is going to focus all of their engineering attention to
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: the artemis program friends and getting their mk their mark
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: ii lunar lander called blue moon set to go to
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: the moon carry some cargo missions up there compete with
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: spacex to carry human beings back to the moon and
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: and so they're focusing on their human transport which means
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: virgin galactic could be the only company flying customers to
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: the edge of space above the atmosphere in 2027 so
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: So there you go, friends. Virgin Galactic is picking not
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: only a good time for a naming contest, but a
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: really good time to return to flight and make bank
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: for some space tourists.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about Music Under the Dome. We haven't talked
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: about this in a little while, but it's now back
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: to Music Under the Dome season. We have a show
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: coming up in October as we get underway for the
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: new school year. You guys do it around the school year,
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: so the season of it coincides with the start of
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: the school year, and October will be show number one
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: for this season.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: And there are still season tickets available. That's probably the
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: biggest headline. We only put out a few of those,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: put out about half the theater, about 50 seats. And
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: so when those season tickets go on sale, they are
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: often very popular. And so I would tell all the
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: people listening to this program who are also fans of
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: the Music Under the Dome series, go get your season ticket.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Buy all the shows. It's not that expensive. It's 50
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: bucks for the entire season per seat. Let me say
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: that again, friends, $ 50, not for one show, not for
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: one concert for the entire season. You can be a
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: season ticket holder for $ 50. And that allows you to
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: attend all five of the music under the dome concerts,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: both in October and November of 2026. And then throughout
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: the spring in 2027, concluding with the Dan Tepper concert
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: that will be in May. Anyway, friends, Check it out
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: at the website. Go to www.ccssc.org and buy your tickets
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: for the Schwob School of Music musicians and the artists
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: who create original content for our Planetarium Dome and the
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: choreographed concert between musician and visual artist inside our Omnisphere
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Theater Planetarium. That's music out of the dome. Don't miss out.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Once again, the website www.ccssc.org.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Sean and I thank you for listening, and we'll do
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: this again next week. Overhead Door Company of Columbus has
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: all of your garage door needs covered. Residential and commercial,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: service and repairs. If you need a new garage door
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: or you're just looking to upgrade or repair your current door,
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: Overhead Door Company of Columbus has you covered. Plus, they've
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: got your emergency repairs or service covered as well.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: 706-358-4500, 706-358-4500, odccolumbus.com.