Latest / Beheaded / Arsenic and Black Widows | Catherine and Margaret Flannagn

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Arsenic and Black Widows | Catherine and Margaret Flannagn · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_04: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_04: This is season five, episode 10.
0:09
SPEAKER_04: I'm Megan Moore.
0:10
SPEAKER_04: And I'm Elizabeth Lack.
0:12
SPEAKER_04: We're here.
0:13
SPEAKER_04: You made it over.
0:14
SPEAKER_04: We're back.
0:15
SPEAKER_04: Ask Megan why this took so long.
0:19
SPEAKER_04: Multiple reasons.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Primarily, we uh, you know, last episode, Elizabeth was a little snuffly.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Complete allergy, so you weren't sick.
0:29
SPEAKER_04: I wasn't sick at all.
0:30
SPEAKER_04: I was purely just like runny nose, stuffy nose, allergies.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: I got full on sick.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: I I was like out for gosh.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how many.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: I started drawing lines on the wall of like counting the days on the couch.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Four scores and seven years ago.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: It felt like forever.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, when you're sick and you're just like watching a show or TV and you're like, oh, they take for granted how healthy they are.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: Just walking through the park outside.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: And I just had a bad cold.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04
SPEAKER_04: Just it took me out.
1:05
SPEAKER_04: It is true when you're sick, you have this weird feeling of like you're never gonna get better.
1:10
SPEAKER_04: Like you wonder what it felt like to even be healthy because you're that sick.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: I always think about how I was I just took it for granted.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Like you just, you know, you breathe and you don't have a sore throat, and you can your head is clear, and I'm like, wow, I really just took advantage of that.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: I didn't appreciate every day that I just walked the earth in perfect health.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: And then as soon as you're healthy, you just don't give a shit anymore either.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I'm on the so if if I'm the one nasally this time, I apologize.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: There might be some breaks for some noseblows and honkers.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
1:42
SPEAKER_03: You know, you supported me last time, I support you this time.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:45
SPEAKER_04: I hope you don't get me sick and we just continue this throughout the season.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I did have very guilt-free.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: I had third well Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Guilt-free.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, I finished a book, didn't watch TV.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I watched like three series.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Hey.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was actually kind of great because my husband and I were sick at the same time.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: And it was almost a joke because he was every symptom he he and like I had, he had it two hours before me.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: And then he was like, I feel fine, I feel better.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Well, I don't.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: And then two hours later, I was like, Whoa.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: We had the same exact thing with the same timeline.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: So we were just sick together.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: We just laid on the couch together, argued over the remote together.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: We ordered pizza and Thai food.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: We were just disgusting.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: And who took care of who?
2:38
SPEAKER_00: We we were very um, you know, whoever was up, whoever got their like aching body off the couch, or it was like, do you need water?
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Like we we kind of helped each other out.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: We had like trash cans with our tissues around.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: I felt kind of like if you have siblings and when you when you got sick with your sibling and your mom would just, you know, if you have like couches that go in an L shape and one was on one end and one was on the other.
3:03
SPEAKER_04: And I don't know, I never experienced that.
3:05
SPEAKER_04: I had cousins, so I guess we did something similar.
3:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
3:09
SPEAKER_04: But no siblings.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Like if I got sick with my sister, you know, we would just like lay on the couch together.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: That's what Jake and I did.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: It was kind of nice.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: It was just, you know, when you when you binge watch shows and you eat bad food and you order takeout, you just like kind of feel gross.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: It's guilt-free.
3:24
SPEAKER_04: It's when you're a pity party that you're having together.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're like, oh, I was like, well, we can't go out, we can't go grocery shopping.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to cook dinner.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: So let's just get pizza and Thai food.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And we had pizza tonight again.
3:35
SPEAKER_04: You're welcome.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: That pizza was way better.
3:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's good pizza.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: I just had some like basic, like commercial brand.
3:42
SPEAKER_04: Pizza Hut.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: No free ads.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Might have been Domino's.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: No free ads.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Pizza Hut's better.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Ew, are you serious?
3:49
SPEAKER_00: You're kidding me.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Then Domino's?
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: I thought you oh, you like Papa John's.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Papa John's.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm thinking.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Papa John's.
3:56
SPEAKER_04: I guess no free ads, but if we had to rank them, Papa John's.
4:01
SPEAKER_04: 1A.
4:02
SPEAKER_04: Domino's.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't even have to do that.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: No, I did have Dominoes.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: I did have Domino's.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't Pizza Hut, it was Domino's.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: That's what you said.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm on Pseudafed.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: I I I don't even this is gonna be a fun episode.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm a little concerned.
4:18
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna we're gonna take it real slow with Megan.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna let her do her talking.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: Am I not gonna interrupt?
4:24
SPEAKER_03: My head feels soft.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
4:26
SPEAKER_03: Feels like a blanket.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: Keep going.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: I just want to see what you're gonna say next.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Feels like my nose went into some slippers.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh right.
4:36
SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm gonna take over now.
4:39
SPEAKER_04: Um, I was not sick.
4:40
SPEAKER_04: I got over my illness from last time.
4:42
SPEAKER_04: Again, just allergies.
4:43
SPEAKER_04: Um, but then I did go to Denver.
4:46
SPEAKER_04: I had a little trip to the mountains.
4:48
SPEAKER_04: Um, so flew into Denver, saw a little bit of my family from there, and then we went up to um like Silverthorne, Frisco area, if anyone knows the Colorado Rockies.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: No idea.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well beautiful country.
5:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and um, I skied for the first time.
5:03
SPEAKER_04: So I grew up in Colorado and I snowboarded in like high school, but I never really knew what I was doing.
5:08
SPEAKER_04: It was more like your friends take you and you figure it out, and I was never great at it, but it was fun.
5:14
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, as an adult, I'm gonna like learn how to ski, I'm gonna figure it out.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: As a as a 35-year-old woman, you're like, now is the time to break my bones.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Kidding?
5:24
SPEAKER_03: You know, it feels so chic in my little ski suit, my skis and my body.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: Your ski outfit was really cute.
5:29
SPEAKER_04: You looked like um a Bond girl, because that was what I was going for.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: Kind of.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Good, thank you.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: I felt like you you you were um you could have belonged in like the cool group.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: No, not the cool group.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Fuck you.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, remember like Johnny Tsunami, like a Disney original show, but you were like the the prep school group.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: That's what you that's what you were emanate emanating.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So funny word, emanating.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: That's what you fed.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is gonna be.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Emitting.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: Emitting.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: The the Pep Girl Disney original.
6:04
SPEAKER_04: I love that.
6:05
SPEAKER_04: I'm like the kid villain of a uh yeah, like a sports.
6:11
SPEAKER_04: I'll take it, man.
6:12
SPEAKER_04: I'll take it any day.
6:13
SPEAKER_04: Um, so did that.
6:15
SPEAKER_04: I even did like ski school, like took lessons, which was cool.
6:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
6:19
SPEAKER_04: Ski school and um God make it.
6:24
SPEAKER_04: Uh, you'll be fine tonight.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: This is great.
6:27
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, um, didn't break any bones, was fine, didn't tear any seal.
6:30
SPEAKER_04: That was the goal.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: Fell a few times, no big deal.
6:33
SPEAKER_04: That's part of it.
6:33
SPEAKER_04: You have to fall.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Was the was it powdery?
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Was it how was the snow?
6:37
SPEAKER_04: It like we had snow the night before, so the morning was really soft and fluffy.
6:42
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
6:42
SPEAKER_04: But by the time I got to like a little bit more of an advanced area for me at least, it was like pretty damn icy.
6:48
SPEAKER_04: So I was getting a little nervous towards the end of the day because I couldn't even like stop.
6:52
SPEAKER_04: I couldn't stop on my skis.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a that's a key, that's what they teach you in ski school.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, I know I could stop.
6:57
SPEAKER_04: I could stop in ski school, but once I got on a real mountain, I was like, oh my god.
7:01
SPEAKER_04: The snow is different up here.
7:03
SPEAKER_04: So anyway, I do like it.
7:04
SPEAKER_04: I do want to go more often.
7:06
SPEAKER_04: In Arizona, we have mountains up north.
7:08
SPEAKER_04: So I do want to spend more time out there next season and like figure it out.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: That'd be fun.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: That'd be a fun little trip.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: So if you ever want to go.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't want to.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: But thanks, Megan.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, Jake loves to snowboard.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go snowboarding with Jake.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can go with my husband.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
7:26
SPEAKER_04: Robbie, Robbie actually figured it out too.
7:28
SPEAKER_04: It was his first time skiing.
7:29
SPEAKER_04: He didn't go to ski school and just like did it.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: You guys are so annoying like that.
7:33
SPEAKER_04: It pissed me off.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel you.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: It pisses me off too.
7:37
SPEAKER_04: He was like escorting me down my first mountain.
7:39
SPEAKER_04: He's like, Oh, you got this.
7:40
SPEAKER_04: He's like going backwards.
7:41
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, what the fuck?
7:42
SPEAKER_00: You just learned this.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm going roller skating next weekend, and I do have a pair of vintage roller skates, and I've been practicing.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Not this past week.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Why are you going roller skating?
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have a friend.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Name rings with Shmishma.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: Shmisa.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: You're friends with Isma?
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Lisa.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: I know.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: We're doing like a couple's skate night.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Like um, her husband and Jake and like a skating rink?
8:08
SPEAKER_00: At the botanical gardens.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: They're doing like an adult night evening skate.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's cuter.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's good.
8:14
SPEAKER_04: I pictured you guys going to like where middle schoolers hang out.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: It's like a retro night of of like nighttime adult skating.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: So I've been before I got sick, I've been practicing my roller skates and I've been going around my neighborhood.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Is it easy?
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, can you pick it up again?
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I haven't fallen yet, but I want to get better at going backwards.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: So I think to do that, I think I need to get some like wrist pads to make myself feel more confident because I'm getting decrepit after this cold.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Like everything hurts.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: You'll never be healthy again.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I will be.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't think my back will be the same.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: You'll be fine.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, um, yeah, I'm not into skiing, but I I like skating.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:57
SPEAKER_04: Is that similar?
8:58
SPEAKER_04: I mean, it involves balance and you can potentially die over the age of 35.
9:02
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I guess it's the same.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh it's fine.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so like I said, all I've been doing is watching shows.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: There's been some really good ones out there.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Kind of up our alley.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a a new Holocaust um, you know, themed show on Hulu.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, that one was good.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: But what I wanted to mention though, what was cool is I was watching a f a few episodes, a few shows on Disney, um Renegade Nell, and a couple others.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, um, so much of it is filmed at Hampton Court Palace.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: And that was really that was fun.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: That's dope.
9:37
SPEAKER_03: So I was like sitting there and just like I've been there, and you know, I'll never be healthy again and never go to Hampton Court again.
9:43
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna be able to travel ever again.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: That's where the beauty is the beautiful days of my life behind me.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so you've been skiing and I've been binge watching, and here we are, and we're alive.
9:54
SPEAKER_04: We're finally back together.
9:55
SPEAKER_04: It took us a long time to get back here, so thank you for being patient with us.
9:59
SPEAKER_04: But I will say Megan being sick was super helpful because she like was posting tons and tons of content.
10:05
SPEAKER_04: We've been better about that, we as in Megan, for the last like month and a half.
10:10
SPEAKER_04: So thank you, Megan.
10:11
SPEAKER_04: She's been like blowing up our Instagram, putting out a lot of reels.
10:15
SPEAKER_04: One a day.
10:15
SPEAKER_04: I've been trying.
10:17
SPEAKER_04: We are super happy to announce, not announce, but like a lot of them are doing really well, getting like hundreds and thousands of views.
10:24
SPEAKER_04: But we have one that's literally about to hit a million.
10:26
SPEAKER_04: I don't mean a million views.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't get the algorithm.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't get why it's like that one.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to know something triggered, and it just I get why the term is viral, like because it spreads, and the more people that are commenting and liking it, ever so it's kind of like this been this joke.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, Elizabeth and I are trying to like, you know, gather our nose and eat pizza tonight and whatever, and we are we're like we're so tempted to look.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, I don't want to like get obsessed and keep looking.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: It's cool.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: Every 10 minutes we have another like 30,000 views on it.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Is this is this what fame feels like?
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is exactly what fame feels like.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Be ready, Megan.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: It's um, you know, it's addictive.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: A little I get it.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's I just feel loved.
11:11
SPEAKER_04: Thank you for liking my lock video.
11:15
SPEAKER_04: Like you said, it I like it because it's something that just came out of nowhere.
11:18
SPEAKER_04: It's not like we like calculated it and really thought long and hard about how to make this happen.
11:23
SPEAKER_04: It was like, hey, we're just doing what we do.
11:25
SPEAKER_04: It's a lot of our own content that we had in London.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just little clips that we grabbed while we were there.
11:31
SPEAKER_04: And like yeah, but I want to like emphasize that none of it is like stuff you just found online.
11:35
SPEAKER_04: No, they're our own original videos.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Even like um, even like the video of the forest, that was in England.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, all of it is just random little video clips we have on our own phones, but um, yeah, I've just been, you know, trying to be diligent with that.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate everyone.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: And and if you're new and you're listening because of one of those, I I never, you know, I never really caught on to the big like we were not we've always said we weren't good at social media, and uh that's my been my 2024 goal is to change that.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um you're doing awesome.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, evidently people like locks.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: We just like just post more videos of a lock and people lose their fucking minds over.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: The comments section is wild, it's so entertaining.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: I love hearing from people who think that I was in England yesterday and like I saw you filming.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, thank you.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Just say yes.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, you did.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: No, I I truly actually do, especially when I was just laying on the couch decrepit.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of fun just chatting with random people and commenting back, and um, you know, one person like didn't believe the lock was real.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: She's like, bull crap.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then it's so funny to see people counteract and come in there like, do your research.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, do your research.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: But anyways, I love the not just for our content, for any content.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: We said that last episode too.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: The comments, people just go frickin' off the hook.
12:56
SPEAKER_04: Shh, I never I never read those, but now I'm kind of getting pulled in.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's hilarious.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Some of them are are fun.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh anywho, well, I'm glad to be here.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Snot at all.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me to your lovely home.
13:11
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
13:12
SPEAKER_04: I'm glad you were here with some some shamps and some red wine.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: On the pseudo fad, you're really, you're really making me seem like I'm not sure I should let you drive home.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: A responsible adult here.
13:24
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, um, speaking of female duos, we have a really good episode tonight for you all.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: Because we're a female duo.
13:32
SPEAKER_04: That's what I was going for.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: I understand.
13:34
SPEAKER_04: Power couple, if you will, who have like, you know, a million plus views on our reels.
13:40
SPEAKER_04: No big deal.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: We haven't had a duo execution this season, have we?
13:46
SPEAKER_04: That's a great question.
13:47
SPEAKER_04: You're making me think now.
13:48
SPEAKER_04: I put me on the spot now.
13:50
SPEAKER_04: We've had a lot of duo executions.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: We had like, um, didn't Jack Rackham go down with someone and uh You can't put me on the spot like this.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: William Burroughs had uh Who were the lovers?
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, Alice and uh her boyfriend.
14:04
SPEAKER_04: Alice and Alice's boyfriend.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: And we're not gonna get into that.
14:08
SPEAKER_04: We don't know.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: We don't have a lot of duos, but tonight's a duo episode.
14:12
SPEAKER_04: Yes, and these two ladies are known as the Black Widows of Liverpool.
14:17
SPEAKER_04: So um it's a really fascinating story.
14:20
SPEAKER_04: Uh we're set in like the late 1800s, which is if you're an American, it's more like the Gilded Age of America.
14:27
SPEAKER_04: But um in this era, a lot going on in Liverpool.
14:31
SPEAKER_04: So um I'll go ahead and just like kind of jump into who these sisters were and how they got their names.
14:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, so we have two sisters, right?
14:40
SPEAKER_04: Catherine Flanagan and Margaret Flanagan.
14:43
SPEAKER_04: They're both Irish, uh, I believe born and raised in Ireland, and um around this time in like the mid, I'd say, 1800s, we'll say 1840s, that's when if you know history, like what's going on in Ireland at this time, it's a great famine.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: I know history.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, potatoes.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Potatoes, the potatoes were an issue.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
15:04
SPEAKER_04: So a lot of people had to leave Ireland because of the famine.
15:07
SPEAKER_04: And so one of the biggest places people uh kind of fled to was Liver Liverpool, because it's not too far away.
15:13
SPEAKER_04: Um and Liverpool is a port city in England, or not England.
15:17
SPEAKER_04: What's actually Yeah, it's England.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: Is it England?
15:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know it's like the mainland, but is it England?
15:21
SPEAKER_04: It's like not.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll believe you.
15:24
SPEAKER_04: I don't know my geography that well over there.
15:26
SPEAKER_04: Um, so yeah, so so Liverpool's a port city, and at this point in time, so many people like came to Liverpool that about 25% of the population was Irish.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a gross name.
15:36
unknown: Okay.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: You know when you kind of keep thinking of a word and you kind of break it down?
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: Liver in a pool of liver juice.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: If you're from Liverpool, I'm really sorry, but that's we just lost so many listeners.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: And that million views just dropped.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I just like this grow Okay, am I am I crazy?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: The Beatles are from Liverpool.
15:59
SPEAKER_04: I believe so.
16:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
16:00
SPEAKER_04: Because they have that Liverpool Liver Pudle accent.
16:03
SPEAKER_04: Is that how you say it?
16:04
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: Oh god.
16:05
SPEAKER_04: Pud?
16:06
SPEAKER_04: Lost a hundred more.
16:07
SPEAKER_04: We're embarrassing ourselves.
16:09
SPEAKER_04: Continue.
16:10
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, I know that in the movie like Across the Universe, which is supposed to have all the like Beatles songs.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: We like historical.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: We we we do it's an artistic movie.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: The 1960s isn't really our forte.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: We apologize.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: We are into old history, not the Beatles mania.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: It's fine, but in in that one movie Across the Universe.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: I was just saying that's like the main character's from Liverpool.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: So I assume and it's a port city, yeah.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a there's docks, and it was a lot of people coming in and out.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Megan.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: Excellent analysis.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And this episode has been brought to you by Sudafed and Champagne.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: Andrew.
16:50
SPEAKER_04: No, no, let's not say the brand of Champagne.
16:53
SPEAKER_04: Okay, so back to our sisters.
16:55
SPEAKER_04: So Catherine and Margaret.
16:56
SPEAKER_04: Um, there are a little bit of an age of an age gap in between them.
16:59
SPEAKER_04: So Catherine was born in 1829, so she's the older sister, and Margaret was born in 1843.
17:06
SPEAKER_04: So, what is that, like 14 years later?
17:08
SPEAKER_04: That's a pretty big gap for them.
17:09
SPEAKER_04: Um, but they're very close sisters.
17:11
SPEAKER_04: Uh, again, they both come to Liverpool when they're fairly young.
17:14
SPEAKER_04: And remember that, like at this point in time, with the like Liverpool being a dock city, being full of so many, I guess, migrants, um, it's not like a great place to be if you're not wealthy.
17:27
SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of slum areas, like heavy drinkers that are working at the docks.
17:32
SPEAKER_04: It's just a an area where it's just you know, it's it's you don't have a ton of options, you don't have a ton of resources.
17:38
SPEAKER_04: It's a little clue with the liver juice.
17:41
SPEAKER_04: Stop saying that, man.
17:43
SPEAKER_04: So um, but Catherine is uh being the older sister, I think she's really like determined to make something of her life in this area.
17:51
SPEAKER_04: So what she does is because it's a heavy drinking town, the first thing that she does is she like opens a beer house when she's um it doesn't say an age, but I assume she's a bit like I don't know, maybe twenties or thirties when she's doing this.
18:03
SPEAKER_04: Smart.
18:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it goes really well.
18:05
SPEAKER_04: She's even selling alcohol on like Sundays, which she's totally not allowed to do because it's Catholic.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's Irish though.
18:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and like people you need their drink on a Sunday.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I get it.
18:16
SPEAKER_04: Um, so she really does well on this until I think the crown kind of cracks down on liquor laws, and she eventually knows she has to move on from this because it's she's gonna, you know, put her business at risk.
18:25
SPEAKER_04: But what she does next is then she becomes like a money lender.
18:29
SPEAKER_04: So she, you know, she herself again has done what she can with her money.
18:33
SPEAKER_04: So she has enough stored away to have some sort of like, you know, uh credibility to her name.
18:38
SPEAKER_04: So what she does is she like goes to more reputable lenders, lens like borrow borrows a bunch of money, and then she loans out tiny sums to her neighbors who are like in the slum areas.
18:48
SPEAKER_04: And you know, she charges like very reasonable interest rates, but enough to really like make money herself.
18:53
SPEAKER_04: So she's helping the community because she's getting people that would otherwise be denied for loans, you know, some sort of uh some sort of like financial help, and she's making money on top of it.
19:04
SPEAKER_04: So she's sitting here, like you know, had a beer house, didn't quite work out, you know, is now blending money, and that went pretty well for a while, but then she knew she wanted to get back into like the hospitality business, we'll call it.
19:16
SPEAKER_04: And you know, with the beer house thing not super uh super great the first time, she decides, well, let's just have a regular like lodging house where they're just gonna, you know, have a little place with tenants.
19:27
SPEAKER_04: So she invites her sister Margaret to help her.
19:29
SPEAKER_04: So Margaret is now helping her in the household, and it's a small household, it's not like it's not a motel, it's not like it's a boarding house.
19:37
SPEAKER_04: It's yeah, it's not an Airbnb with 10 rooms, it's a boarding house.
19:40
SPEAKER_03: For those who um grew up in the 90s and watched Hey Arnold.
19:44
SPEAKER_03: Oh, how funny you mentioned this.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't pick up on that when I was a kid.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: That's I don't know why that's where my brain went, but yeah, Arnold's grandparents ran ran a boarding house, and there was a quite like an eclectic group of adult individuals, but they they rented out the individual rooms, but then there was common space areas for the kitchen and bathrooms and living room and all of that.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: It's a house, but you pay it's a bunch of roommates based adult roommates, I guess you can say.
20:11
SPEAKER_04: So they pay per room, but they share common spaces.
20:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah.
20:15
SPEAKER_04: Or hey Arnold, if you don't know, it's like an American TV show cartoon on Nickelodeon, yeah, which canceled.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh God.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Another one.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, we won't get into it.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: I know, but I've been to watch that one as well.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: For those who know, know what I'm saying.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: Don't get into that.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: I won't.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, I won't go on that tangent right now.
20:31
SPEAKER_04: Um, so they ran this rooming house that is on 5th Scurving Street in Liverpool.
20:37
SPEAKER_04: Um, and they have a small household.
20:39
SPEAKER_04: So the household consists of the two sisters, Catherine and Margaret.
20:43
SPEAKER_04: Catherine's son John, who at this point is like 22, he's very much like an adult man.
20:48
SPEAKER_04: Um, and then they have two lodger families, and both families are like fathers and daughters.
20:53
SPEAKER_04: So one family is Thomas Higgins and his daughter Mary.
20:57
SPEAKER_04: Um, she's a young child, and then the other family is Pete Patrick Jennings and his daughter Margaret, who's like a teenager.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, disclosure, there's a lot of Margarets in this story.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: I know, and I don't know what this happens a very Irish name.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: I think it's just Catholic name.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: We can call the little one Maggie if that helps.
21:15
SPEAKER_04: Well, she's a teenager, but yeah, the daughter, whatever.
21:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there's two daughters, Mary and Maggie.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: I got curious and I looked up Five Scurving Lane, Liverpool, England on Google Maps.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, good for you.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: And um, it's right on the docks, like you can because you know you can do the like look around on in Google Maps, yeah.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: And you can see that there's still a working port there and it's right on the water.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: And there are current residences, um, 10 Scriving Lane.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: If you live there, that is it looks like you just can't imagine.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: They're like, um, why are you saying my address on a podcast?
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's kind of funny because number five is just this overgrown empty lot.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: It's right at the corner.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, nothing's there.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: If you're curious, Google five scurving.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's just this overgrown lot.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: And I really want to know what happened.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: It obviously it looks like very clearly there was a there was a house there.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: It got torn down and it's just bush and garbage.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Like it's so beautiful, Megan.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: It's just an overgrown lot.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: I want to know what happened.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: And can we buy that lot and build on top of it?
22:24
SPEAKER_03: You think it's cheap right now?
22:26
SPEAKER_03: Might be.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: There's a big uh billboard for an egg in front of it.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: It's like a billboard for eggs is facing.
22:35
SPEAKER_04: Well, if anyone has any information about said lot, Megan and I are uh looking for some plot of land.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: We're in the market, evidently, for some real estate in Liverpool.
22:45
SPEAKER_04: So that's essentially a snapshot of what's going on in this household at the time.
22:48
SPEAKER_04: But just when we think, like, oh, Catherine's got it figured out, she's making money, she's doing well, shit starts to get weird.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so there's seven people in the household.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: There's the two sisters, her son, the two dads, and they each have a daughter.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: So John is Catherine's son.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: He's 22 years old in the years 1880.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And he's like overall a pretty healthy and robust young man.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: For whatever reason, Catherine has put this image out that he was unhealthy, but there was no no evidence that would indicate that.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Everyone else would say, yeah, he's a normal 22-year-old young man and he seems healthy.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: He dies very mysteriously and very suddenly.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Really, no cause.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: But there wasn't a lot of suspicion around it.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: Again, Liverpool was not the safest, healthiest, most wealthiest of places.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a lot of death going around.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: When you're working out in the docks all day, heavy drinking, not a lot of death.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Disease is coming around.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, disease floats around, and folks are coming over from Ireland when there was the famine happening.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this was years later, but still, there's just this overall presumption that you know shit goes down and not a lot not a lot of people cared, which is sad.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: And maybe that happens today as well when you're kind of in the the lower, it's sad, right?
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Like there's just there's not a big microscope of what's happening if people are just unfortunately it's to be expected in some places.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're you know, so that happened.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: And what results from that is Catherine collects payment.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna explain what this is.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: So back in 1880 in England, there was something called the Burial Society.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: It was basically a non-profit organization that provided money and funds to help cover funeral expenses and the cost of death.
24:40
SPEAKER_06: Right.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Basically, it was life insurance, and it's what we have nowadays where you have to pay into it and you have an insurance number on your head.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: But back then it was a non-profit organization that handed out benefits to people if someone had died.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Never heard of this before.
24:55
SPEAKER_04: I know.
24:55
SPEAKER_04: Certainly not, it's certainly for profit today.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
24:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's almost interesting to me because back then you would think even more so, it was like I don't care, get this body out of here.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of generous that they would give money if a loved one died like that suddenly.
25:11
SPEAKER_04: And one YouTube video we watched said something along the lines of like, you know, yes, they were living in these like not ideal conditions, but they didn't want to have a pauper's death.
25:20
SPEAKER_04: Like they didn't want to die like they had nothing.
25:22
SPEAKER_04: They wanted some dignity in death, you know.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Which is fair.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
25:25
SPEAKER_00: Funerals are not cheap.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: I think almost everyone can attest to that at some point.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember my grandparents got their cot their their their coffins at Costco for a really good deal, but coffins are expensive.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Funerals themselves are very expensive.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Expensive to die.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Don't do it.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: So Catherine collects 71 pounds for her son's death.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: In converting that 20 in 2019, 71 pounds in 1880 in 2019, and I know that's a random number.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: I get it, we're in 2024.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm just lazy and I got what I was reading from the article that was made.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: You didn't do the actual conversions.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: But in 2019, actually, that'd be funny.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it's very different now with inflation.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say that's nothing now.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: It was 7,120 pounds.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: That's I mean, especially if you're coming from, you know, the shambles.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty good.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And adjusting for inflation of today.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: And you can imagine Catherine gets dollar signs in her eyeballs.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Spinning.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Like I just I picture Scrooge McDuck just like exactly what happened.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Fast forward a couple years.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: Let's not forget about Margaret.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: Margaret's the younger sister of Catherine, about 15 years her junior.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: And Margaret falls in love with one of the tenants, Thomas Higgins.
26:50
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Thomas Higgins has the little girl.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: Um her name is Mary.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: She's about eight years old.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Um Margaret and Thomas fell in love pretty quickly, and perhaps it's a sign of the times.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: They got married within the same year.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: And just months after they got married, in October of 1882, Mary dies mysteriously.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Little Mary at eight years old.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: Little, it's kind of sad, right?
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Eight years old.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Um no cause?
27:24
SPEAKER_04: Not really.
27:25
SPEAKER_04: No one.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: No one looked into it.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: She was healthy one day.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: Bouncing around in her pigtails.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh, Mary.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: Playing in the docks.
27:37
SPEAKER_04: And who collected burial payment for that?
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Margaret.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: The step the new stepmom.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: She gets a payout.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Tail as old as time.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: One year later, kids were so there were seven people in the household.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: We're down to five.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: 1883, a year later, Margaret Jennings, the daughter of the other tenant, Patrick Jennings.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: She's 19 years old, has her whole life ahead of her.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Out for her the love of her life.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Waiting.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: You're just making up stories about her life.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: She's she might have a job in the pub and she's waiting for her Prince Charming to come along.
28:16
SPEAKER_04: She's like a barkeep maiden.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: She's got great boobs.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: She's young, she's fair.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful flowing locks.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Redhead, I imagine.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: She dies.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh mysteriously.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Suspiciously, one might say.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Mmm.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: At this point, it becomes suspicious.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: It becomes suspicious.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: And what's weird, Catherine got the pay got the payout from the Burial Society for Margaret Jennings.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Which I do not understand.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand.
28:47
SPEAKER_04: Like, did she, you know?
28:49
SPEAKER_00: How did she finagle that?
28:50
SPEAKER_00: She put it in her name somehow.
28:52
SPEAKER_04: As like the landlady, perhaps.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: As the owner of the woman.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
28:57
SPEAKER_04: Maybe she advised Patrick to do it, the father, and then was like, hey, if anything happens to her, like I'll collect since I've advised you to do this.
29:04
SPEAKER_04: Who knows?
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Or like, yeah, like I've done this before.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Let me just take the money, like, let me do the paperwork for you.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: No one likes paperwork, right?
29:11
SPEAKER_00: She's done it a few times at this point now, and she's worked very closely with the burial society.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: She understands how it works.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: You're taking a lot of creative liberties.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: I am taking a lot of creative liberties.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Please, please uh notate all of that.
29:24
SPEAKER_04: The basic facts are there.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh pseudofed.
29:28
SPEAKER_04: That's okay.
29:29
SPEAKER_04: Um, so at this point they decide to move because whispers are happening in the community that all these deaths may or may not be related.
29:36
SPEAKER_04: Again, it's a small household, and yes, people do die in this, like, you know, slum area often, but not this often.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Three people in three years, all mysteriously.
29:46
SPEAKER_04: So there was these like whisperings around the community, so they finally decide, hey, like, let's move from this location.
29:52
SPEAKER_04: So they moved twice really quickly.
29:54
SPEAKER_04: They moved to 105 Um Lit Latinur Street and then to 27 Ascot Street.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: I didn't look up those on Google Maps, I didn't, but I will.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: I love Google Maps.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: Let us know what you find.
30:06
SPEAKER_04: You're gonna find Pokemon.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: You know about that.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: No, obviously.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay, just making sure.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh do they have them in Liverpool?
30:17
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I thought that was an Arizona thing.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: The Pokemon are worldwide.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, isn't that?
30:23
SPEAKER_04: My ski trip, we weirdly talked a lot about the Pokemon Go game, which I thought died like 10 years ago.
30:27
SPEAKER_04: Apparently it's still a thing.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: That was a weird time in our.
30:29
SPEAKER_04: Remember that?
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was weird.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:32
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, so tell us what happens next after they move.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's still me?
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: After they move.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: So there were seven people.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: We're down to four.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: They move.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's Catherine, Margaret, Margaret, and Thomas.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Margaret's husband.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
30:48
SPEAKER_04: Patrick, who knows?
30:49
SPEAKER_00: Patrick was like, a few guys, you took my daughter's money and whatever.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: I think he's still in the picture, but who knows?
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Thomas Higgins comes down with a little bit of a stomachache.
30:59
SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: And it hurts, and he's in pain.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: They bring in Dr.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Whitford and he owns it up to some cheap whiskey.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: He's he he claims it's dysentery.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Is that the word for it?
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Dysentery.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Dysentery.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: What what explain?
31:13
SPEAKER_04: So if you've ever played Oregon Trail, you always you always die of dysentery.
31:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
31:17
SPEAKER_04: Your character is always dead of dysentery.
31:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, I looked it up because I actually wasn't sure what it was, and I might have to look it up again because I already forgot.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: It's when you get the bottom shelf whiskey.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: It's not about whiskey.
31:32
SPEAKER_04: But it's it's extreme dehydration.
31:34
SPEAKER_04: It's like you have like bloody bowels, like your your stomach's not okay.
31:38
SPEAKER_04: It's some sort of intestinal problem, but it can lead to death, yes.
31:42
SPEAKER_04: Um, maybe cheap whiskey, maybe bottom shelf whiskey.
31:45
SPEAKER_04: My first thought when I read that, and how embarrassing is this, is I was like, oh my god, I gotta buy fancy whiskey now.
31:50
SPEAKER_04: Like I didn't think, oh, I should stop drinking whiskey.
31:52
SPEAKER_04: My first thought was like, Well, I can't buy cheap whiskey anymore.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, I remember when I turned 21, and you know, you like buy your alcohol for the first time.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: And I I had no idea what I was buying, right?
32:05
SPEAKER_00: There's and I remember I was having some friends over, we decided we were gonna try to make like Cosmos or something at my place.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, here's all these like vodka options.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking up top and there's gray goose velvet, and I'm like, holy crap! And you know, I'm poor and in college, I'm like, these are like$30,$40,$50 a bottle.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: And then you look down and there's something called like UV label, or like it was there was like a barcode, like it was like weird.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: I was like, wait, is this vodka or whiskey?
32:33
SPEAKER_00: It was vodka.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: It's called like UV.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: It's on the bottom shelf.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is only$4.99.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, why would anyone pay for that when you can pay for this?
32:44
SPEAKER_00: And I thought I was like, I was like, these idiots.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Make it hack the system.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: I thought at that time, you know, when like you don't you don't know anything really about alcohol and drinking, and I just thought vodka was vodka and alcohol is alcohol, like it's all gonna get you drunk.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: What's the difference?
33:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure so many of us, like, you know, uh, like at Sharon in his song, he said, buy cheap spirits and drink them straight when like they were young, you know.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a mistake.
33:09
SPEAKER_04: Don't do that.
33:10
SPEAKER_04: I shouldn't laugh at you because probably my entire 21st year I drank like Long Island iced teas.
33:15
SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's too much.
33:16
SPEAKER_04: Because I was like, Oh, this is a cheap drink, and it gets you so drunk so fast.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, so if if you hear any movement, there's a little puppy at our feet.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: So sorry, he likes to make an appearance.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: But he's such a good boy.
33:28
SPEAKER_04: He is, he's being very quiet, so it's okay.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, you can stay there, it's fine.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: You can stay there.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: But uh if you're gonna be able to do it.
33:34
SPEAKER_04: I don't think you plans on moving.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but if it's banging the thing, just know it's forgiven because it's because of a dog.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's allowed.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Um anywho.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: So dysentery.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: So if you drink the UV from the bottom shelf, you get dysentery.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: And they claim that that's what Tom Hi boy.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: They claim that's what Tom has had.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh two days uh oh well first Dr.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Wifer goes like um, you know, cure this with some opium and and castor oil.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Perfect combination.
34:02
SPEAKER_04: Are you supposed to drink castor oil?
34:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't think you're supposed to.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: But what is that about?
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they had I mean they also had opium as a cure for everything in 1883.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Two days later, he dies.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: Surprise.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: How mysterious he dies mysteriously and suspiciously.
34:25
SPEAKER_04: And then the doctor did say he died of dysentery, which is crazy.
34:29
SPEAKER_04: That's what's on his death certificate.
34:30
SPEAKER_04: It's dysentery.
34:32
SPEAKER_04: But alas, Thomas Higgins has a brother.
34:36
SPEAKER_04: The brother Patrick, who is not associated with the boarding house, he is not the same Patrick.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: All these multiple names.
34:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this episode, and it's gonna get worse in terms of duplicate names, but we'll be as clear as we can be.
34:46
SPEAKER_04: Um, but Thomas's brother Patrick, he was extremely surprised that Thomas just dropped dead.
34:53
SPEAKER_04: Because again, similar to John, who is 22, like Thomas is only 45.
34:57
SPEAKER_04: He's in excellent health.
34:59
SPEAKER_04: Like, they've never had a reason to worry about him.
35:01
SPEAKER_04: He's always been strong, he's always fought off like sickness well.
35:04
SPEAKER_04: So immediately Thomas wants to go and figure out what's happening.
35:09
SPEAKER_04: And the first thing he figures out is that um Margaret, his new widow, she had profited 108 pounds, which is again like if if 71 pounds in that era was about 7,000, then this is probably like 10,000.
35:25
SPEAKER_04: You think you looked up a more exact colour?
35:28
SPEAKER_00: 100 pounds in 1883 in t in 2024 would have been 15,000 pounds today.
35:36
SPEAKER_04: Pounds or American dollars.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: 15,000 pounds, 19,000 American US dollars.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: She's making almost 20 grand on this thing.
35:45
SPEAKER_04: That's crazy.
35:46
SPEAKER_04: So Patrick finds out, again, not only did she profit that much, but one of the reasons she did is because Thomas Higgins was insured with five different burial societies.
35:56
SPEAKER_04: So at this point, the sisters aren't even putting all their eggs in one basket, they're like spreading it around, like to get maximum payout.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, none of them talk to each other.
36:05
SPEAKER_04: Probably not.
36:06
SPEAKER_04: You know, they didn't have the world wide web.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: No one's no no one had phones, like matching records, they don't realize that they have this man in every city society.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:18
SPEAKER_04: So crazy.
36:19
SPEAKER_04: So Patrick immediately is like, something is going on deeper than just my brother dying and just this payout happening.
36:27
SPEAKER_04: Um, so he alerts the authorities and he says, Hey, you need to do a full-on autopsy with this body because it's not dysentery, he's healthy, like, figure out what's going on.
36:37
SPEAKER_04: So, what the authorities plan to do is really sneaky and really brilliant, that they decide to literally interrupt Thomas Higgins's wake.
36:45
SPEAKER_04: Like they go in in the middle of it to take the body.
36:48
SPEAKER_04: So all the before it's buried.
36:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and all the mourners are like surprised.
36:52
SPEAKER_04: They're like, What the hell?
36:53
SPEAKER_04: Like, we're sitting here trying to like honestly, they were kind of having a party.
36:57
SPEAKER_04: It wasn't even so much of a sad wake or like a sad gathering.
37:01
SPEAKER_04: Like they said people were drinking and hanging out and having fun, and like cheap whiskey, cheap whiskey, you know.
37:07
SPEAKER_04: And then um, the authorities come in, the coroner like gets the body, and then they start running tests and trying to figure out what exactly happened.
37:13
SPEAKER_04: And what happens when that coroner and the authorities come?
37:17
SPEAKER_04: What Catherine leaves the house, like please.
37:20
SPEAKER_04: Catherine is gone.
37:21
SPEAKER_04: Not suspicious, yeah.
37:23
SPEAKER_04: And obviously, Catherine's the older sister, she's not the widow of Thomas, but hello, you know, she are you running, yeah, like physically, literally running out of the house.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: She went to the back door.
37:33
SPEAKER_04: So, um, so finally, coroner comes back and he says, Yes, like arsenic, which is a poison, was found in the autopsy.
37:41
SPEAKER_04: After the coroner came back and found the uh arsenic from the autopsy, the home was searched naturally because they want to find more evidence.
37:49
SPEAKER_04: And what do they find?
37:50
SPEAKER_04: They find like a tiny bottle that had um remnants of arc arsenic in it.
37:55
SPEAKER_04: And then they found like a it's called a market pocket, which was worn by Margaret.
38:00
SPEAKER_04: I'm not sure if that's like a purse or a like satchel or literally a physical pocket on her clothes.
38:05
SPEAKER_06: Pocket, yeah.
38:06
SPEAKER_04: Um, but they found this, they found this pocket and they examined that and there were remnants of arsenic.
38:12
SPEAKER_04: So they had this uh this poison expert come in, his name was Dr.
38:16
SPEAKER_04: Campbell Brown, and he confirmed yes, there was arsenic there.
38:20
SPEAKER_04: And immediately Margaret, his widow, because she was there, was um was arrested.
38:26
SPEAKER_04: Catherine, on the other hand, was gone, so it took them about a week to find her, but they did eventually find her because she didn't leave the city, she would just like left the house.
38:34
SPEAKER_04: Um, so at this point, there's enough evidence the sisters are formally charged with the murder of Thomas Higgins.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Not only that, but they had orders to exhib the rest of the bodies.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Being uh the the son, John, little little Margaret, Mary, little Mary, like get them all.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Maggie, Mary, Margaret, all of them.
38:57
SPEAKER_04: The two daughters and the son.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: All of them.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: They and they found arsenic in their bodies.
39:02
SPEAKER_04: All the bodies.
39:03
SPEAKER_04: What's interesting about that too is I guess arsenic's kind of the preservative, so the bodies weren't as decayed as you'd think for being in the ground.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
39:13
SPEAKER_04: I think they were like more fresh than you'd than you'd think because of the arsenic in there.
39:18
SPEAKER_04: So they're like once they took them out, they're like, oh yeah, pretty sure there's arsenic.
39:23
SPEAKER_04: And then the test confirmed that there was arsenic in their bodies.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, they were trying to figure out how the sisters even got the arsenic.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: They're both illiterate, they don't know how to read or write.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: It's not like they're walking into a chemist shop knowing exactly what they need.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: There's no records of them in a chemist's shop.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Or speaking to a chemist trying to figure out.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, they thought maybe it was rat poison.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: They did.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Right, but what where did that fall flat?
39:49
SPEAKER_04: Well, they they were like, oh, there's arsenic in rat poison, so maybe that's where they got it, but then they found no other like uh ingredients from rat poison in the bodies.
39:58
SPEAKER_04: There was no identifiable rat poison.
40:01
SPEAKER_04: So what they figured is there was also arsenic in fly paper, like what you use to stick and catch flies.
40:09
SPEAKER_04: Um, so they they found out that what you can do is actually put fly paper in water, and when you do that, the water has like this arsenic like buildup or whatever that goes in it.
40:21
SPEAKER_04: Just think about that for a sec.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Who the hell needs to kill flies so bad that the papers, the sticky paper wasn't enough?
40:30
SPEAKER_00: They want to kill them with arsenic as well.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
40:33
SPEAKER_04: I mean, this is 1800s, man.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the doctor also they had lead and the paint.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who knows.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: He also prescribed opium and castor oil for his upset stomach.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's just like really the there's arsenic just in everyday household things.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: You you think you'd kind of pull back on that, but okay, sure.
40:51
SPEAKER_04: Let's just say cheap whiskey was the least of their concerns.
40:55
SPEAKER_04: Everything else was trying to kill them.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: So they know how they got the arsenic now.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Every all the all the dots are coming together.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, Catherine tells her lawyer um about six to seven other deaths, not necessarily directly related that she committed murders, but um other deaths that are of the same nature that other people have orchestrated.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: They're trying to pull from her name.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: So they're pretty sure the enforcement, they're pretty sure that this isn't just Margaret and Catherine.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: They think there's more of a network happening here.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: And they want to give them leniency by sharing those details, but she's pretty silent lift.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: All she said, she didn't tell this in trial, she only told her lawyer privately.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: There's about six to seven other deaths that I know of.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: There's about five women who who are a part of this network.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: She kind of did a dirty for her sister, she kind of threw her under the bus a little bit.
42:01
SPEAKER_04: A little bit, yeah.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: She she named her basically with, you know, mm-hmm.
42:06
SPEAKER_04: She said essentially that there's a whole like burial fraud network, and who knows whether they call themselves that or other people named them this, but they called themselves the Black Widows.
42:17
SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
42:17
SPEAKER_04: Again, I don't know if it's themselves, but they were called the Black Widows.
42:21
SPEAKER_04: So of the Black Widows, there were um, I believe, four poisoners, three insurers, and then one like arsenic accomplice who secured the arsenic.
42:31
SPEAKER_04: So the poisoners were the two Flanagan sisters, so Catherine and Margaret.
42:36
SPEAKER_04: There was also another person named Margaret Evans, who they said kind of started the whole thing and wasn't the first one.
42:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, she was like the ringleader of it all.
42:42
SPEAKER_04: Which we'll get into in a second.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: And then another Margaret.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: We apologize.
42:45
SPEAKER_04: Not our story.
42:46
SPEAKER_04: And then a Bridget Bagley.
42:48
SPEAKER_04: So those people are the ones that actually did the poisonings.
42:50
SPEAKER_04: But then they said they had women on the other side who worked as like insurance agents, which I was like, that's very progressive of the 1800s.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: I do appreciate that.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: But they were also the ones who are probably totally cool with having the same guy in five different records of different societies.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: Probably.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: So they were just brushing things under the rug.
43:07
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
43:08
SPEAKER_04: So those women were Margaret Potter.
43:10
SPEAKER_04: Sorry.
43:11
SPEAKER_04: Another Margaret.
43:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, Mrs.
43:13
SPEAKER_04: Fallon, and a Bridget Stanton.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Two Bridgets.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, in this story, we have four Margarets, two Bridgets, two Patrick's, and two Catherines.
43:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we'll name the next Catherine in a second.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
43:25
SPEAKER_04: I jumped ahead, I got excited.
43:26
SPEAKER_04: That's okay.
43:27
SPEAKER_04: So then the arc the arsenic accomplice, the person who like secured the arsenic, her name was Catherine Ryan.
43:33
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, so a lot of Margarets, a lot of Catherines, a lot of Bridgets and a couple Patricks.
43:38
SPEAKER_04: Oh, interesting.
43:39
SPEAKER_04: And a partridge and a pear tree.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: Those Irish not all of them.
43:43
SPEAKER_04: So um Catherine came forward and said, again, because she was trying to be compliant and also like reduce her sentence.
43:49
SPEAKER_04: So Catherine said that, hey, Margaret Evans is actually the one who started this all because she murdered a mentally handicapped teenager and got paid out.
44:00
SPEAKER_04: Like from his death, because I guess she was I don't know if it was involved with or had a certain connection to the boy's father.
44:07
SPEAKER_04: So she probably like coerced the dad into you know doing the burial society payments, whatever it was was at the time.
44:15
SPEAKER_04: And then she collected from that.
44:16
SPEAKER_04: So they said Evans was the one that started it because she was trying to get rid of this mentally handicapped boy.
44:22
SPEAKER_04: And then from that.
44:23
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
44:24
SPEAKER_04: From from that, that's where how the network started is people saw, oh, look at these big payouts you could get.
44:30
SPEAKER_04: It is really messed up.
44:31
SPEAKER_04: But I mean, and again, whether that's true or not, we're not sure, but that's what Catherine said.
44:34
SPEAKER_04: She was trying to pin it on Evans.
44:36
SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: We don't know what's true because all of these women, it there's it's just all allegations.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: They didn't have evidence for these other women.
44:44
SPEAKER_04: No.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, so really all of it fell on Catherine and Margaret Flanagan.
44:49
SPEAKER_04: He did.
44:49
SPEAKER_04: Um, and they even said Stenton too, uh, Bridget Stanton, she was linked to three deaths that involved burial fraud.
44:57
SPEAKER_04: So again, so this whole time Catherine's the one kind of pointing fingers and saying, Well, here's this network, I'll name them all, here's everything that they've done.
45:04
SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, and there were other witnesses who kind of came forward and said, Yes, I've actually seen different combinations of these women right before mysterious deaths.
45:14
SPEAKER_04: They even said when Thomas, I'm putting like air quotes around this, when quote unquote Thomas Riggins was getting his insurance policy, they had like this insurance company supervisor come to the house to meet him.
45:26
SPEAKER_04: And he said there was a man who was not Thomas Riggins who posed as him.
45:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh, sorry, yes, thank you.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: You're saying Riggins.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
45:33
SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, Tim Riggins, Friday Night Lights.
45:36
SPEAKER_04: Um, so they they came forward and said, Oh, Tom Higgins, that's not him, it's an imposter.
45:42
SPEAKER_04: And the woman who posed as um Margaret, his wife was like some mystery woman.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: The audacity.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: If this were to be in modern day times, could you imagine the scandal?
45:54
SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
45:55
SPEAKER_04: So a lot of shady shit going on regardless.
45:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: 1884, they had their trial.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, I think the evidence all pointed in one direction.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, both sisters were hanged together.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: They were on March 3rd, 1884, at Kirkdale Prison.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: They had a bit of a spectator crowd.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: Like they were viral.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: They were viral for the day.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: They were viral for the day.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: They had about a thousand people come and watch him get hanged.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: And it was like and a Catholic priest there in a partridge and pear tree.
46:30
SPEAKER_04: Um, and they said that it was a snowy day, so like not the best weather, too, and people still wanted to come out and witness this hanging with the two sisters.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: We were watching one documentary on this, and I I kind of wasn't paying attention, so maybe you were.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: But they were saying something about how um since the 1850s or so, it was uh or 1860s, apologies.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: It was since the 1860s, the the prisons had closed down public executions.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: For whatever reason, they opened it up at this time in 1884, so it was like kind of a big a big deal.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Everyone wanted to get their eyes on the Flanagan sisters.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
47:07
SPEAKER_04: See them hang.
47:08
SPEAKER_04: I wonder why they did that specifically, like be maybe to again, I mean, like any execution to be public about it and kind of sell magazines, sell some newspapers and media purposes.
47:19
SPEAKER_04: But you know, being like, hey, maybe we recognize that insurance fraud's now a bigger thing, so maybe we need to stop it.
47:25
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: That's actually a good point, and that's what they that's typically why they would ever do a public execution is to make a point.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: Going back going back all the way, you know, talk about the dawn of time, yeah, Tudor Dynasty.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: Like they were saying, don't go against the king, ancient Egypt.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all of it.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: It goes way back, right?
47:42
SPEAKER_00: Um so and and I love this.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: Shortly after their execution, uh, Madame Tucson, as we all know, the famous wax figures in London.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: In London.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: To this day, we can go and see Madame Toussaint's wax museum.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: They had wax figures of the Flanagan sisters.
48:00
SPEAKER_01: That's pretty cool.
48:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they were total shit.
48:03
SPEAKER_03: They're like effigies.
48:04
SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, the women were older when they died, right?
48:07
SPEAKER_04: I think they were.
48:08
SPEAKER_04: I mean, not that old women aren't cute, but like, yeah, they were getting on in years.
48:13
SPEAKER_04: I mean, uh, Catherine was born in the 1820s.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: Didn't we say at this time in Liverpool, the average lifespan was like 30 years?
48:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they said because of the conditions in Liverpool, like being 30 to 35 was generally the only Damn, was he the only life you had?
48:29
SPEAKER_04: So I like the fact that when um uh when Higgins, when he when he died, he was 45, and people were like, What he was so I said Higgins.
48:38
SPEAKER_04: He did, okay, sorry.
48:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, when Higgins died, it was like he was so young and vibrant.
48:43
SPEAKER_04: They were surprised as brother Brother Patrick intervened, and I'm like, well, in this day and age, I mean 45's like an old man.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: But um I've never heard this story before.
48:54
SPEAKER_04: It's such a cool story.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how I came across it.
48:56
SPEAKER_04: To be honest, suggested it.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: It might have been a suggestion, yeah.
49:00
SPEAKER_04: But this was a this was a great one.
49:02
SPEAKER_04: I love anytime you have any kind of like larger conspiracy type of thing going on.
49:07
SPEAKER_04: Because you know, individual stories are awesome.
49:09
SPEAKER_04: I love I, you know, I love all of our victims of our execution episodes.
49:13
SPEAKER_04: But something about a network, it just speaks to me.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, and sometimes it's kind of fun when uh I mean they were murderers, right?
49:20
SPEAKER_00: They were serial killers, they murdered an eight-year-old girl for money.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think sometimes these episodes can be a little bit like we have some um um excuse to be a little bit more lighthearted because I do think that they were criminals versus some others when it's it is truly like they didn't deserve that.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, these ladies were batshit crazy, they're just looking to make a little money.
49:48
SPEAKER_03: I think they were entrepreneurs, and there's a play.
49:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh, so I didn't know this, and I've actually never seen the play myself.
49:55
SPEAKER_04: I know my high school put it on when I was there, I wasn't in it.
49:59
SPEAKER_04: Um, not that I auditioned.
50:00
SPEAKER_04: I did the musicals, not the place.
50:02
SPEAKER_04: Oh no, but um there was uh I mean there is a play called Arsenic and Old Lace.
50:09
SPEAKER_04: And while I was researching this episode, I kept thinking of that because Arsenic was mentioned so much.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: Arsenic and Old Lace.
50:14
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, oh, we should name the episode something cute, like Punny, you know, arsenic and old lace.
50:19
SPEAKER_04: And then we watched a YouTube video and it was like, oh, you probably have seen the play, Arsenic and Old Lace.
50:24
SPEAKER_04: And apparently that one of the two characters in that play are these older like women that are poisoning people, and they think they're loosely based on these two women, these two sisters, which I thought was hilarious.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea about that.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: And there's even um some old classic movies that they've based on it on that play, right?
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Called Arsenic and Old Lace, and I kind of want to go back and watch that.
50:47
SPEAKER_04: We should.
50:47
SPEAKER_04: We should remember we did that one movie night.
50:49
SPEAKER_04: I don't know if we've ever talked about it on our podcast.
50:51
SPEAKER_04: Um, but we we had that movie night where we watched the 1940s Rebecca.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:56
SPEAKER_04: And like it was cute.
50:57
SPEAKER_04: We dressed up and like we had brandy.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: We had a little brandy and little like sh well no uh we bought branding glasses.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: Like little sh- Yeah, we had braining glasses and uh we had steak pies.
51:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
51:07
SPEAKER_04: Meat pies.
51:08
SPEAKER_04: So I think we maybe do an old school movie night like that.
51:10
SPEAKER_04: That'd be fun.
51:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think Robbie's out of town soon if you want to.
51:13
SPEAKER_04: If I'm not sick this weekend.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: I hope I don't get you sick.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm really sorry if I do.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: No, I I think I'll be fine.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: But this was you took one for the podcast.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: We were already a week late and posting like Well, we have a million views on the reel.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: I gotta do something.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, so you took one for the team, and I really hope I don't give this.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm kinda like trying to like talk in if I'm if my voice is terrible, I'm trying to like sit back and not Why are you leaning so far away from me then?
51:38
SPEAKER_00: Because I don't wanna I'm at the tail end.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm on day seven.
51:43
SPEAKER_04: I'll take it.
51:44
SPEAKER_04: I'll be fine.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: I think I won't touch you.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm sick.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
51:50
SPEAKER_00: I'll give you my list of shows to binge watch on.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: I'll just I appreciate you too, my lady.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: I'll just create the next viral video while I'm sick.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: You know, I set the bar pretty high.
52:02
SPEAKER_04: I I don't know if we'll ever get to that again.
52:04
SPEAKER_04: But hey, don't say that.
52:05
SPEAKER_04: A lot of the beginning are doing excellent, and that's just a testament to you and all your hard work on social media.
52:12
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any more final words of complimenting me?
52:17
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: Good night.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay.