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Inside The Data: Will The Eagles Be Next To Join The NFL's Tight End Craze? · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hello, welcome back to Inside the Data on Inside the Birds.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Mosher, and of course we got Sam Finkel
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: here to talk a little analytics and data as it
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: pertains to the Eagles, who, by the way, we'll be
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: starting training camp very soon. It's been a while since
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: we've had Sam on. It's good to see him back.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: And here's the thing. Tight ends are all the rave
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: in the NFL. I mean, there are so many of them.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Especially why tight ends who can actually catch a little
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: bit too were drafted on from day two. From round
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: two really to round four, there were a bunch of
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: them drafted some by teams. You've already had a lot
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: of tight ends, so we'll talk about that. And I
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: know Adam and I Sam on our Inside the Birds
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: podcast have sort of talked about it in reverse, meaning
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: we have talked about defensively being excited about what might
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: happen in Week three and Week four when the Eagles
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: play the Bears and or the Rams and then the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Bears back to back, because we all know the Rams
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: blew everybody out of the water last year, playing three
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: tight ends at a thirty percent clip, which is like
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two football. If right, and then the Bears
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: played a lot of twelve personnel, a decent amount of
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: thirteen and then they just drafted another tight end. So
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: we've talked about in reverse and that's what gave me
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the idea. Hey, Sam, we know the Eagles of Sean
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Manniner running this kind of McVeigh shanahan style offense and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: are going to incorporate tight ends. Let's talk about tight
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: end usual what we expect from the Eagles, right.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really exciting project, and I think the
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: results make a lot of sense, but they're really interesting
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: when you look at them, especially from an EPA perspective,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: and how successful they are from each perspective, position or
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: personnel group.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about how the conversation has changed a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: lot since the end of last year. The end last year,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of people thought it was gonna be Dallas
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Goddard's last year as an Eagle. He's gonna hit free agency.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: He had eleven touchdowns. Figured to be a good market.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: They have not hired a new offensive coordinator at the
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: end of last year. It's still Kevin Batulo. We're talking
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: about days after the season, okay, and then nobody else
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: other than Cam Lawtu was actually the only tight end
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: under contract for two thousand and twenty seven. Okay, so
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: our conversations were man the Eagles have no tight ends.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Fast forward to now, Godard comes back on a one
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: year deal, Grant Kalkatera comes back on a one year deal.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: They draft Eli Stours, cam Latou is here, they sign
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: a guy named Stone Smart from the Jets, and they
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: get an explosive rookie free agent and day kwon right
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: out of oh I mean right now. And then in
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the process, right they hire Sean Nanyon, who comes from
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: this chain of coaches and West Coast offense who love
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: to use tight ends. Right, So what do you just
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: before we get into the data, what does that signify
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: to you? With the Manion hiring and with all the
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: load up on tight end that they've done.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it just personal versatility is really important
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: in the league because especially when you can find matchups
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: to exploit, when you see what a defense does when
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: they're when an offense goes in twelve personnel, there are
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: certain rules that you know, specific defenses have to address that,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: and if you can manufacture you kind of figure out
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: the rules. You know, what kind of scheme they are,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: and you can manufacture mismatches, and having the ability to
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: go from eleven personnel the entire game one day, to
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: twelve personnel another game, and to thirteen personnel, it gives
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: you some versatility and ability to win games differently. It's
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: really important to be able to win games differently because
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: matchups are so key.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: And along those lines, Sam, I think what you saw
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: last year is not just the versatility of being in personnel,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: but when you are in that personnel, when you are
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: in two tight ends, when you were on three tight ends,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: when you are in a running back and a fullback
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: and a running back right with a tight end there.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: And this really came to light last year with the Rams,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I would say, but other teams too. The ability to
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: run one pass plays that are basically eleven personnel plass
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: like three wide receiver pass plays out of these multiple
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: tight end packages is really the CounterPunch, right, because what
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: you just said is so true. You're trying to dictate
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: with tight end usage what the defense is going to do.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: You're hoping the defense gets bigger and slower because they
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: feel like a run is coming with multiple tight ends
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: on the field. But then you're just popping passes to
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: either wide receivers or a flex tight end who can
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: run routes like a wide receiver. So now you have
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: two different dynamics going on, which is dictating defense and
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: then being able to run multiple optional offense out of
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: those offensive formations that you're throwing on the field.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: And another thing I'd like to add that I just
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: kind of thought of it.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: It also helps you mitigate if there are injuries, right,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: especially as you're losing aj Brown, you know you're losing
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: a nick very explosive receiver on that side. If you
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: get thin at that position, which they have some pretty
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: decent depth at this point.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: It's nothing crazy, but they have some depth there.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: If you get thin at the position, having this extra
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: tight ends and move it, being able to move it
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: around and change your personnel is just an added benefit.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Great point. I mean, I think that the Bears are
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: a good example of that because I think it was
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: doing today who missed a bunch of who was hurt
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: last year at the end of the year with a
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: foot injury. The Niners, right, they had a lot, as
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: they always do, had a lot of injury. They never
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: got Brandon Iyuk back there were times Pierce all miss time,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: and so they throw Kyle Yuschek out there, they throw
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Jake tongan is out there right, Kittle is more and
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: then they wind up looking like they're just gonna run
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the ball up, but then they just pop hit play
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: action at different kind of guys from that tight end
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: fullback chain. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah, great point, awesome stuff. So
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: this led to me hitting up Sam being like, you know,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: we should really look at last year's usage of the
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: teams that run these McVeigh Shanahan offenses, how much they
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: used tight ends last year and how successful they were.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: So I asked Sam to put together the day to
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: do some studying and then also put together his thoughts
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: on what it meant and share that with our audience
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: here inside the data. Before I bring up the data
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: that you presented, was there anything you say you discovered
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: along the way that surprised you or you didn't know
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: or you know, positive negative, anything that hit you.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: So I think one of the things that I thought
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: was really interesting is when you look at the EPA
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: for the lead average, just in general, it makes sense.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: It's it's pretty close to zero and all these personnels,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: it was interesting that eleven personnel was the only positive
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: EPA personnel and the other two were negative, they were negligible.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: It was all pretty close to zero, so it's almost
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: like it didn't matter. But it gets a little complicated
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: because obviously teams run things differently, there's different persons, different
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: people in the personnel, and then coaching is different. But
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I just think that was a really interesting point. And
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: then the other interesting point that I found that I
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: want to mention is when we look at the Eagles
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: specific in their EPA personnel. Uh, they were not great
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: at anything besides twelve personnel, which I thought was really interesting.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was fascinating. By the way, real quick though,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: before I bring up the data, the rams at a
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: thirteen personnel were higher than zero though, right, weren't. They pretty.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Were very They had the best EPA per per out
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: of thirteen they had the best.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: It was not Yeah, yeah, which it probably won't surprise
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. That became their identity after they
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: played the Eagles. When they played the Eagles, they were
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: on eleven personnel team. And then sometime around week six seven,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I think, like your point, I think someone it wasn't
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: the cool or was it Devanta Adams they had some
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: something going on where they had to like compensate, uh,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and then went to this thirteen personnel look and it
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: was really good for them. All right, So this is
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: what we did. We asked Sam Sam put together these
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: six or seven teams were going to discuss usage of
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: tight ends. And then, as Sam just mentioned, EPA, there
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: are different personnel groupings and for those who need a refresher, Sam,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: what is EPA and why is it important? Or tell you?
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's expected points added.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: It's an approximation of how many you know, how many
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: times your plays like lead to scoring opportunities and plays.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: It's an approximation.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: It's all formulaic, an algorithmic based on you know, you're down,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: your distance, those kind of factors and how much you
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: gain on a play. It's it's it's a chart basically
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: that dictates it. It's pretty standardized, it's pretty readily accepted.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: In this community. I think it's a pretty decent metric
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: to show agree though.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: There's very often like a team has a really good EPA,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: it's something that you think that they're visibly bad at
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: or vice versus, so.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: They don't have its limitations, but it's a pretty good
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: indication of efficiency and success rate.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Awesome. So that's where we're gonna look at right now
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: inside the data personnel story. Look, you're even getting like
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: cute with your headlines and everything. I thought you'd like that.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought it up.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I thought, I thought it was really good. So here
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: are the teams we focused on. The Bears, Packers, Jags, Rams, Eagles,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: forty nine Ers. Just so people understand, right, Bears head
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: coach Ben Johnson runs a very similar offense to what
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Sean McVay does. Okay, Green Bay Packers Matt Lafleur, he
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: was the offensive coordinator for Sean McVay in LA for
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: a year. He's been the Packers head coach for a while.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: People know that. Jaguars head coach Liam Cohen another offensive
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: coordinator who worked under Sean McVay. The Rams are coached
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: by Sean McVay. Eagle Sean mannion offensive coordinator played for
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Sean McVay. Is everybody getting the the you know, the
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: the pattern here in trend. And then of course the
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: forty nine Ers coach by Sean Kyle Shanahan, who coached
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: alongside Sean McVay for Washington, I believe under Jay Gruden
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: on a real star studded staff that had a lot
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: of studs in that coaching there. So I think I
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: think that pretty much explained why we're doing this, right.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: I think that's a perfect explanation.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Is there anybody who's come across Sean McVay that is
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: not on this list? Somebody remember there was a time
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: in the NFL where we used to say who was it?
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: It was like Andy Reid, Like if you got if
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Andy Reid like touched you, like your shoulder, like you
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: were an automatic head coach and can't. Well that's now
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: become Sean McVay. If you know, met came across Sean
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: McVay in any kind of way, you will automatically be
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: a head coaching can in the NFL easily.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, he definitely has that reputation and that's just
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: the state of the game right now.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: That is quite amazing. You know, I know that Ben
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Johnson has that influence, but I know he worked for
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: the Dolphins for six years. Maybe he was under Mike
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: McDaniel free I'm I'm trying to.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Mike McDaniel was a part of that Washington team I think.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Right, But actually he was. He was there under Adam
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Gaze and Joe Philben, so he has West Coast pedigree.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I think he's just someone who has incorporated very similar
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: concepts into his offense from studying McVeigh, where he may
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: not have actually coached with Sean McVay, but they do
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: similar things.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about this your personal story. Personnel
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: by team, Explain what we see here on the chart.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so these are this is simply just a count chart.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: It just counts the amount that they were in each
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: relative formation. So if you look, there's the blue column,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: the blue row, I guess it's the eleven personnel, and
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: then twelve is the orange, thirteen is the green, and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: then that lighter blue is other. That's just any other formation,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: you know, that's your twenty two, it's your you know,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Zero running back, zero tight ends.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: It's two weirder formations that we didn't want to go
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: to complicated on here. So basically that's that's it. You
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: can see each team respectively in eleven. The Jaguars led
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: in eleven personnel with seven hundred and thirteen. The forty
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: nine Ers had the least at four to sixty one
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: with twelve personnel. You have the Bears, I believe, leading
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: at three sixty and then you have the Rams trailing
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: at one oh four at thirteen at not surprising at all,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: the Rams led at three one hundred and thirty one,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: and the forty nine ers, believe it, not only had five.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: But interestingly enough, the forty nine ers positional versatility is
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a big thing for them. They have four hundred and
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: ninety two in that other category and the Rams only
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: had fourteen.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Right, So the forty nine ers had let's see, they're
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: in first place for other at four ninety two, second
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: place as the Jags at one forty seven. So you're
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: talking about three hundred and fifty ish snaps more than
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the second leading team and other and that's important. And
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I'll let me let me give a background here. So
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: you look and you see that the forty nine ers,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: who everybody knows, places what looks like a lot of
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: twelve personnel or heavy tight end usage. You see, they
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: only had one hundred and twenty four snaps of twelve,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: which is second lowest to the Rams. But I would
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: say you'd probably agree, Sam, right, the way they use
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Kyle Yushik as a full back instead of a tight end,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: right makes it twenty one personnel because they'll have McCaffrey
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and Yushik as the two running backs and then Kittle
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: as a tight end. But realistically, Kyle Yushik plays the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: game like a tight end. He just has an alignment.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: He's called a running back because he's a full back,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: but he aligns himself more all right, like a tight
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: His responsibilities are like a tight end. He blocks, I
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: want the shrimage, he detaches and catches some balls every
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: once in a while, as the Eagles remember the playoff game.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: He's much more like a tight end than he is
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: running back. You would agree, right.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I would totally agree with that, and that is the
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: distinction that changes them from other to probably somewhere closer
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: to the more twelve and thirteen personnel.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if you took those those snaps
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: that they play of twenty one personnel with u Check
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: on the field and Kiddle right, and consider that twelve personnel,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: then they probably blow everybody out of the water in
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: twelve personnel.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: I would guarantee with you on that.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Let me just I can actually look it up as
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: we're talking.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you can do that while we're talking
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to if you want. But I mean that's the point
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: we're trying to hammer a home is. Don't be fooled
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: by the forty nine ers being second last and twelve personnel.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: If you really look at how they play the game,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: they're a heavy tight end usage team and they play
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: like a twelve personnel team.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, which is why it was important to have them here,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: even though it's a little bit strange. Right, So they
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: had three hundred and ninety three plays in twenty one personnel.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's three I'm sorry, stay again, three hundred
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and what three.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Hundred and ninety three. So out of the four hundred
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and ninety two, three hundred and ninety three of them
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: would be essentially twelve personnel.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: So basically, add a four hundred more to the twelve
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: personnel you get five twenty four. And like we said,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: they blow everybody out of the water in twelve it's
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: an l all right. And then as you can see,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: in eleven personnel, they trail everybody, so they are not
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: a three wide receiver team. They are also I think
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: when we talk about the Eagles will probably probably we
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: haven't have to see. We'll look to compare them a
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: little bit more to the Packers Rams where it might
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: be a little bit more balanced.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Agreed, all right.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I also want to point out that you have the
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Jaguars as the leaders in three wide receiver sets eleven personnel,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: it's seven hundred and thirteen, and the Jaguars were in
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: year one of Liam Cohen's offense, they weren't really blessed
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: at the tight end position. I mean, Brenton Strange is
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: a good one. They didn't have a ton of like
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: guys you could call hy tight ends or versatile. But
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: they drafted Nate Brooks, they shocked everybody. They took a
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: tight end in the second round named Nate Berkshire out
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: of A and M, and then they gave Strange a
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: contract extension that was pretty decent. So I would imagine
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: by this time next year that eleven personnel number and
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: twelve personnel, that differential is going to shift highly towards twelve.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree completely. And the thing is, having
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: coached Breton Strange, I know what he's capable of, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to see what he can do.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, for any of our new listeners, Sam, remind remind
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: them how you coached Brenton Strange.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: So I was an assistant quarterback coach, and I know
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: he didn't play quarterback, but I you know, I had
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: my hand in a little bit of it as well
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: at Penn State University, and so that's that was what
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I did before my new career as a sports entertainment
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: attorney and inside the data co hosts.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: So that's a good background that I have here.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: If you weren't the sports and entertainment attorney, I might say,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you're you're going down or wrong, my friend from Penn
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: State as distinct coach to inside the data host on
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: inside the Birds. However, we're so happy to have you,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: and you're.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Doing it never down and wrung. And this is truly
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: an honor and a privilegion.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I enjoy it awesome, all right, So what else can
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: we what deduction can we make just in general about
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: tight end usage. I know we don't have the history here,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: but these are big numbers, right, of twelve personnel as
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: far as total snaps. When you see three sixty for
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the Bears, three forty for the Packers, and then of
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: course the five hundred and whatever from the forty nine ers.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: It's it's definitely interesting. One thing I wanted to say
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: is that if you look at twelve personnel, the average
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: league usage is around If you go to the second chart,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: if you don't mind, we can see a little bit better.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Maybe it'll be easier to explain.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: The league average for twelve personnel is around twenty two
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: zero point three percent, Okay, and the twelve personnel's orange.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: So anyone over that twenty two point three percent is
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: above league gaverage.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Anyone under it is obviously below the gaverage.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So just I think that's a really interesting way to
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: kind of look at this figure out, like what teams
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: are using twelve more And you can see a couple
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: that jump out, or the Bears and the Packers, and
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I believe the Eagles were right above that number as well.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Right, it looks like they were right about or above yeah.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: And then as we said, the Jaguars will probably be
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: over that number yeah this coming year, and the forty
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: nine ers because of if you added the twelve personnel
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: to from their other then they're like probably the highest
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: orange bar of any team.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent, one hundred percent. And I believe if
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I might have to check it again, but thirteen personnel,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: the average, I believe is five percent, five point three
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: eight percent.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I love that you said that the average personnel thirteen personnel,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: just three tight ends across the league is five point
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: eight percent. Is that what you said?
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Five point three eight five.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Point three percent? Do you know what percentage the RAMS
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: used it last year? I do? I want to see
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: if you have that information.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: I did have it, I don't have it currently, but
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I am assuming it is much more than that.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Let me, I believe it was not thirty. I believe
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: it was thirty. Yeah, you actually do have it. You
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: have it in green right.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: There, right, thirty eight point thirty seven.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: So look at their usage of three tight ends compared
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: to all these other tight end heavy teams. I mean,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: they just blewe they you could, you can honestly say
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: they redefined how thirteen personnel is used in the NFL,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: both in usage and as we'll get to in a minute,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: in success. Agreed.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Yep, So it's right around thirty percent. Yeah, that's meant
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: I'm at thirty point eight Sorry.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thirty point eight percent. Yeah, No, it's okay, that's right.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I mean you have it right here on the graph.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: You're you're there, You're you did the work. So I
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: think that's fantastic information. I'm gonna add something to this
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: as well. I wrote about this recently on Philly Voice. Okay,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: last year, tight ends accounted for forty eight one hundred
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and two offensive snaps that that's from sports Radar, which
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: is the most in the last twenty years, and two
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: tight end personnel groups, which is twelve personnel we're deployed
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: at twenty five percent, which is the highest usage of
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: twelve personnel since they started tracking that in two thousand
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: and seven, So we're talking about almost twenty years and
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: maybe longer. Well tight ends are in.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: It's super interesting because you see a lot of teams
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: going base nickel, so I wonder if that's a response.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: And you can see linebackers, you know, off ball linebackers
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: are getting smaller, so I wonder if you know the
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: counter punch from the offense is just using more tight
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: ends and bigger bodies.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I think it is. I think it is smaller defenses
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and trying to get bigger. But because teams like the
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Rams are really using it to also pass a lot
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: out of I think it's also to dictate pass matchups
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: when you have fast tight ends, Like who's the kid
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: the Rams draft last year, Oregon Dixon Dickerson? Why can't
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: think of his name?
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, I know exactly who you're talking about.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: What it'll hit me in a set. But he's a
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: guy who Ferguson, Sorry, Terrence h. He's a tight end,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: but he runs like a wide receiver. You know, so
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: DOA's brock Bauer is a tight end, but he runs
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: like a wide receiver. So if you can create matchups
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: with tight ends against linebackers because the defense came out
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: in base instead of nickel, then you've got yourself a
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: really nice matchup.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Well, you're just putting the defense in conflict, in their
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: personnel in conflict, Like you have to decide are you
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: gonna beat beat you know, because you have a bigger
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: body out there, because you have something faster, you're gonna
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: put a smaller body out there, and then if they
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: run the ball, you're just beat. So you're kind of
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: forcing the defense in conflict from a personnel perspective as
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: opposed to a schematic perspective.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Right now, the Eagles to to really understand, like the
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Eagles have been a twelve personnel heavier team compared to
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: league average already before hiring Sean Mannion success out of
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: it has been okay. I mean, we'll get to that
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: in a second, but I think we're about to see
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: a difference in how they're used in terms of being
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: able to both block and catch and the people that
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: they assign those responsibilities to.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, the one thing with the Eagles, I'm sure
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: you I've talked about it is Calcatarra's blocking issues, and
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: you know hours there there is the perception of that too.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: So that's going to be something that I'm going to
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: be interested to see how they adjust for because there
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: are some limitations when they go into twelve or even
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: thirteen with the potential blocking.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: That's something that they'll have.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: To account for, I think, And I'm sure you're probably
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: better to talk about that than I am.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Well, look, I mean it's just something that we all
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: are are we have to see we can presume I
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: ask Calcata anymore to make those kind of like trap
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: and wham blocks coming across the line of scrimmage on
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: an opposing d N and if you're running wide zone
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: and he's your second tight end, but he's not your
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: place side tight end. I think you're okay, he's just
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: trying to help somebody take somebody else for a ride horizontally.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: That's probably more within his realm of abilities than gap
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: blocking or just one on one blocking. Yeah. All right,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: so let's get into some EPA. So we just showed
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: you how much these teams use these personnel groups. Now
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: we're going to show how successful they are. I love
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: these charts that you put together, Sam, really good stuff.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I love that you have the league average in there
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: as well. So what do we find out about just
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: straight eleven personnel?
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Something interesting on eleven personnel is that you know, basically
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: everyone is kind of close to that zero mark.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Then you have people, you have the Packers.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Which is really interesting leading at eleven personnel, which is
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a very reassuring things as the you know, they're getting
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: their new offensive coordinator, they have their new offensive coordinator
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: from the Packers, so it's it's pretty you know, reassuring.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: And if you look at that Packer's wide receiver room,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: it didn't have that crazy time. I mean there were
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: decent receivers on the team, including one that is on
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the Eagles now importantly in Wicks. But I think it's
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: it's really interesting to see that they did really well
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: from an EPA you know, success perspective, uh, with that
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: eleven personnel.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Right, and then they probably leaned on it more than
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: normal last year five hundred and sixty two snaps of
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: of eleven because they lost Tucker Craft, right, and like
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: you said, they had guys like doves. They had Jaden
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Reid came back, Christian Watson came back, played really well.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Matt they drafted Matthew Golden, they had Dantavian Wicks.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: So there were but nobody, they said, there's a lot
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: of decent receivers, but nobody really jumps out as like
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: a top guy. And for them to have that success
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: rate with you know, a bunch of decent receivers is
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: pretty reassuring for how it would translate to the Eagles,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: who I think have a better receiver.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Room for sure. Absolutely. All right, so twelve personnel success
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and if you see these teams, I'm just surprised by
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the Rams not having success but also or not having
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: a positive success for EPA on twelve personnel. But that
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: was their least used personnel group, So I can't It's
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: not really that big of a deal.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think I would be interested to see
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: the split of run versus pass how their EPA was
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: from that perspective, because I think that might be telling.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: And I'm pulling it up as we speak.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: It looks like from the past perspective on twelve they
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: were zero point zero five, and then from the rush
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: perspective they were minus zero point one seven. They were
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: they were better at passing the ball out of twelve
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: than running the ball.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Very interesting, Okay, maybe that's what led to their thirteen.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe they felt they needed more upfront because there's such
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: an insight running team that an extra body would help
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: them there.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think that makes a lot of sense.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: So the Bears, Packers, and Jags were all positive e
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: p as so and hired way hired, way higher than
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: higher than the league average. I'll say the Eagles were
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: surprisingly really efficient out of the best of the group,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: despite all their issues with run blocking and running. Because
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: this count, this counts for everything. This is e p
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: A for entire offense.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I'm curious to split for the Eagles. I'm gonna I'm
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: gonna pull it up as we speak just because I.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Would imagine that the passing e p A was far
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: better than the running e p A.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: You were right, they're both positive.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: The passing e p A was zero point one seven
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: in the EPA per rush was zero point zero seven.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Sort of surprised that the e p A per rush
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: was in the positives there at a twelve personnel with
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: all the struggling that now, I guess we'd have to say,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, Well, I wonder if they how. I
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: wonder how Cam Latu was considered in this data collecting,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: because he's sort of listed as a tight end, even
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: though they played him as a full back.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I believe for the purposes of this, I believe he
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: was listed.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: As a tight end.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: That's what I thought. Okay, so that helps you a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: little bit, Yeah it does.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Fine because, like we said with the Niners, that's still
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: really twelve personnel more than anything.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: And so this data, just to be clear, it came
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: from Schumor Sports. They're really good at tracking personnel data. Uh,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: they're probably the best out of all of them. Just
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: to be clear where our data source from that this
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: in particular study.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Was from that I just want to put that out
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: there as well.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that and our findings on thirteen personnel.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I mean the teams that are negative, like the Eagles,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: well most of them are. I mean, it's only really
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: to be relevant discussing the Rams and Bears because they
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: they used it like kind of come more commonly than
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: anybody else.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when you talk about the other teams, right,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: the Packers had fourteen thirteen personnel snaps, the Jaguars had
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: thirty one, their forty nine Ers had five, and the
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Eagles had eighty. So I mean, I really think only
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the Rams are the ones that we can talk about
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: because the Bears had ninety four, so that's I mean,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: that's fourteen more than the Eagles had.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: So it's it's I don't know, I think you still
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: worth maybe you're going to talk about the Bears.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: You should talk about the Eagles too, and that as well, yes,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: because they're not that far apart. But it is interesting
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: to see, you know, the success rate so drastically different.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, the teams that did it were depositive teams
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: were the Rams and the Bears, like you said.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Right, So I'm really this makes me wonder, you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: are the Eagles going to jump into the thirteen personnel
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: craze and put three tight ends on the field, or
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: there's still going to be more twelve personnel, but even
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: more than last year. And what this shows, your chart
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: epavid personnel shows that teams that relied a lot on
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: twelve personnel bears and the Packers especially did well. I
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: mean they had positive epas. And even though the forty
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: nine ers are minus zero point oh seven, that's because
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: it's not including the other category that we talked about.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I imagine if you put those four hundred and fifty
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: snaps of twenty one personnel and there the EPA from
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: that into it, that would become positive. I would think.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: So their EPA for twenty one personnel m hm is
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I would have to do the math on it, because
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I had to do the math divided by place hold.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: On I don't want to have. Yeah, that's a lot.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: It might it might be a lot on the fly.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: I might be able to get it. I might be
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: able to get it.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: While you do that, Sam, while you do that. The
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: other observation I would say is, hey, the Eagles had
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: a point one what they were the best of them
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: all already out of twelve personnel. So they have a
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: good solid foundation to build from.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So the forty nine ers for their out of twenty
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: one personnel is point one point one.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Oh that's good. Yeah, So I would basically say they're
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: a positive EPA twelve personnel team.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, guaranteed that they would be one hundred percent in
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: the pot. It probably wouldn't be that high, but it
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: would probably be around point oh eight point oh seven
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: somewhere around there.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: We could flip it completely true.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: So that's good. So so in general, we live in
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: an era now where we're entering an era where teams
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: are using more twelve personnel, and as the charge shows,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: twelve and thirteen personnel, the teams that do it are
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: generally successful. Paris Packers, Jags were, Jaguars were the Rams.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Decided they were going to be heavier thirteen personnel. They
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: had a point two three That is astronomical compared to
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the league average of minus point oh two. I mean,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: that is that's almost like unfathomable.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: It is, it is insane. But also you got to
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: think about it this way. It's a volume statistic right too,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: because they ran it at such a high clip compared
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: to every other team. If they did it, well, they're
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: going to blow other teams out of the water just
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: by virtue of the fact that they really were the
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: only team that was doing it to that extent.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Great point, because some people, I think sometimes there's a
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: temptation to look at the number as an average instead
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of a cumulation. Right, Yeah, it's kind of like war
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: and baseball. That's like accumulation, you know, especially really is yeah, yeah,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: good stuff. All right. So the chart below here is
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: sort of just showing I guess exactly what you have
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: in the bar in the other graph, but just in
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: a different kind of format.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and just for you and everyone else listenings
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: just understanding the next team. So the Rams ran it
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: three hundred and thirty one times, the next team underneath
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: them one hundred and forty Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Just going to say, I think that's the Steelers, yep, yep.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: And then then it was the Cardinals and the Colts
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: and the Bears were five. So that's that's if you
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: look at that. And interestingly enough, from an EPA perspective, again,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I would have to do the math specifically to see
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: the rate of it, but just for pure points added.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: The Bills and the Ravens were the next teams down.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: So interesting fact there.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I would have never guessed the Cardinals were in that
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: that group.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't have either, but they they ran it
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: at the third highest at one hundred and thirteen plays.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know they have McBride. I can't even
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: think of who their backup tight end is at the moment.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I wonder if they just faced an abnormal number of
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: like third and fourth and ones and goal line situations
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: where you would, you know, put your jumbo package on,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: they would call that more like thirteen personnel in obvious
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: uses as opposed to creative or identity uses.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Well, they have Tip ryman, this is how you saying that? Yeah,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I remember he was like a Swiss army knife when
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: he was coming out. And Elijah Higgins, right, that makes sense.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And the Colts had Tyler Warren and Mohali Cox right,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: and somebody else who I'm not thinking of at the moment.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely who is their third tight end for
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: the Colts?
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Oh man, now you're really you're you're testing my knowledge
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: on Colts third tight end. Uh, come on, you don't
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: know that I was pretty impressed with myself forgetting their
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: top two.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Threw Ogletree and Will Mallory.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course I didn't know that.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: You should have known that.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Come on, I did not know that. But that's also
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: a team that makes sense because they run so much
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: with with Uh why can't I think of his freaking name,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: the running back Jonathan Taylor that you know, they they
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: and then they had some injuries, uh, specifically their quarterback
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: that they might have just gone like really really big
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: and heavy at times.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: You know, sure, I think that totally explains it.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: But just just for everyone's understanding, just to see like
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: what that actually means. And just because they have zero
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: point two to three compared to everyone else, it's worth
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: noting that volumeism does impact this quite significantly.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: There you go, so good stuff. So I mean, what
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: do you kind of kind of expectations you have for
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: the Eagles then? From tight end usage, let's think about it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Goddard Calcultara's got to make the team. Stowars is on
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the team, lat too is on the bubble. Not quite
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: sure what we can expect from Stone's mart, but he's
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: there to compete, you know. Sure, Hey, Philly fans, game
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  Speaker 1: feel taken care of every time you walk in. Plus,
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  Speaker 1: so whether you're stocking up for the tailgate, the watch party,
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  Speaker 1: or celebrating a big win, you know you're getting the
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• 35:33
  Speaker 2: I would say from just my expectations of it, I
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: think they're going to be in twelve a lot. I
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: think twelve is definitely going to be a comfortable place.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I think it has to be a comfortable place for them,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: regardless of who they put at that second tight end spot.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Probably Stours, but I mean Calcuatara, if he makes the team,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: will have an impact. We'll at least have a role.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: I would go as far as to say role. I
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: don't know if i'd say necessarily.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I've neglected Johnny Munt. I keep forgetting to mention that
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: he's in the mix as well, Johnny mart who has
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: played in this offense before.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I don't know how much thirteen they're gonna run.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I expect them to run more thirteen than they did
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: last year, which again was only eighty snaps, right, But
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: I do think twelve is gonna be a very comfortable spot.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I think the split between eleven and twelve is probably
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: gonna be like maybe two to three.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: You know right, You're right, right, And I would say
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: that they I would agree with you. I'm not sure
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: if they're ready for thirteen so much yet, because what
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: you really need is two guys who can block and
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: one guy who can catch. Right. So got Her he
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: dropped off a little bit last year as a blocker.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: But I suppose you could put Munt, got Her and
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Stours out there and be pretty confident in saying, depending
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: on what the defense wants to do, if he could
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: have run or pass, But it's some of that will
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: also be dependent on how well Stours has passed, you know,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: pass catching translate here, he's still kind of new to
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the position, only played I think for two years. But
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: even if you subbed him out and put Calcatar in
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: to your point, but all these guys have to make
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: the team first, so I think we will know by
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: the way. We will get an idea of that based
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: on what their initial fifty three looks like and how
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: many Titans make the fifty three.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would be a really good indication
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: of their plans. I'd be shocked if they didn't. If
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: they kept a small tight end room that they would
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: still do twelve. But if they kept the big tight
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: end room, I'd expect thirteen at least introduced a little
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: bit more in the game plan for sure.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: I bet Sae Kwon Barkley wouldn't mind seeing some thirteen
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: personnel out there on a regular basis, right.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine he would complain about that, especially if it's.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Like cam Law two Mount and god it like three
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: guys you know who can you know, block a little
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: bit but also catch a little bit.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it'll be really interesting to play action.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I think that's what I'm most excited about out of
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: you know, those heavier formations.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Great point, Sam, great work as always, and we will
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: have you back very soon as we get very close
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: to training camp in the regular season.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Sounds good, all right?
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: That is going to do it for this edition of
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Inside the Data on Inside the Birds for Sam fink Lam,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Jeff Mosher, and we will catch you all on the
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: next one.