Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #704 From the Doctor's Desk

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#704 From the Doctor's Desk · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now the research suggests that life is genuinely for so many,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: getting hard, getting harder, speed of life, expectations, pressure, financial worries,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: mental health. It keeps on stacking up.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: And now here's the scars of our show, my mom
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. Welcome to the Happy
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Families Podcast. I'm joined once again and as always by
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: my wife and mum to our six children, missus, Happy Families.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Kylie who helps you? I can't believe you're still going there?
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  Speaker 2: All right, So if you missed it two days ago,
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  Speaker 2: I mentioned that Kylie had helped me to raise our
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  Speaker 2: six kids, which is true.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, you've done the majority of the helping. You've
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  Speaker 3: done the majority. Let's just move on.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: So once a month we on the podcast have a
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: conversation called the Doctor's Desk.
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: This is sure, it's more than once a month. This
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: comes around way too quickly.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: You say that you don't like it, but you get
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  Speaker 2: very curious and you ask a lot of questions and
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  Speaker 2: you always smile when we're talking about it. The Doctor's
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  Speaker 2: Desk is essentially an opportunity for me to geek out
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  Speaker 2: on the latest parenting science and talk to you about
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  Speaker 2: things that researchers are discovering that are important for how
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  Speaker 2: we're raising our kids.
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  Speaker 4: So where are you going to take us today?
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  Speaker 2: We have two studies. I always get in trouble for
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  Speaker 2: trying to cram too much in, so today it's just
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  Speaker 2: two studies. The first one that I'm going to talk
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  Speaker 2: about relates to what is known in the biz as ACES,
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  Speaker 2: that is, adverse childhood experiences. But we're looking at aces
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  Speaker 2: across birth generation, so essentially looking at whether or not
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  Speaker 2: kids today have more or less aces. Now normally it's
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  Speaker 2: so in tennis, if you have an ace, that's a
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  Speaker 2: good thing, right, The more aces you hit, the better
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  Speaker 2: you're doing. But in life, in the Adverse Childhood Experiences questionnaire,
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  Speaker 2: the more aces you have, the worst life is for you.
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  Speaker 2: So we're kind of flipping the idea of ACES on
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  Speaker 2: its head. The Adverse Childhood Experiences questionnaire asks questions like,
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  Speaker 2: when you're a child, did you live with anyone who
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  Speaker 2: served time or was sentenced to serve time in a prison, jail,
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  Speaker 2: or other correction or facility, or before Ajaten. How often
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  Speaker 2: did a parent or adult in your home ever hit
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  Speaker 2: or beat or kick or physically hurt you in any way?
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  Speaker 2: So aces, we're talking about trauma, we're talking about danger.
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  Speaker 2: We're talking about the genuinely adverse things that happen in
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  Speaker 2: childhood that can have an impact on resilience and well
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  Speaker 2: being and motivation throughout the rest of a child's life.
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  Speaker 3: As they become an adult.
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  Speaker 2: So this is a research article that looks at aces
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  Speaker 2: across birth generations. Are our baby boomers or our millennials,
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  Speaker 2: or our Gen x's or wives or z's, are they
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  Speaker 2: experiencing more or fewer aces? What's the trajectory across time? Now,
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  Speaker 2: of course, just because we're seeing this across the board
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  Speaker 2: doesn't mean it's happening for every single person. But we're
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  Speaker 2: looking at generational differences in aces. But what these research
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  Speaker 2: which is also did Philip Hughes, Tabitha Ostrout, Monica Joel,
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  Speaker 2: and Kathleen Thomas. What these researchers also did in a
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  Speaker 2: very carefully done study, was they examined the odds of
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  Speaker 2: experiencing these aces, not just across these generations, but also
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  Speaker 2: in relation to sexual identity. So LGBTQ plus identity, and
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  Speaker 2: the results are pretty interesting. If I was to ask
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  Speaker 2: you which generation was more likely to experience higher levels
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  Speaker 2: of ACES, that is, adverse childhood experiences, what would you suggest?
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  Speaker 2: Do you think that it's our parents generation, the baby
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  Speaker 2: Boomer generation, or do you think that it's our kids generation,
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  Speaker 2: the millennials, or was it us Gen XGen Y, jen Z.
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  Speaker 4: I think it's really hard to qualify because I think
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  Speaker 4: the experiences that we're having a different But if I
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  Speaker 4: had to, if I had to pick one, I would
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  Speaker 4: think that it was our parents' generation.
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  Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, I would have gone the same way. But
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  Speaker 2: here's what the results showed. The odds of experiencing four
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  Speaker 2: or more ACES were higher for Generation X, Millennials and
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  Speaker 2: Gen Z than for Baby Boomers. And in fact, as
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  Speaker 2: each generation has come through from the Baby Boomers, the
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  Speaker 2: ACES has gone up. The number of adverse childhood experiences
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  Speaker 2: has increased as generations have passed.
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  Speaker 4: So I'm thinking about things in relation to education and
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  Speaker 4: how research has enabled us to I'm wanting to believe
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  Speaker 4: improve and grow in our understanding of what is appropriate
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  Speaker 4: behavior and best practice to keeping our kids safe and
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  Speaker 4: happy and healthy. But if I think about what society
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  Speaker 4: we live in today, I also recognize that we are
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  Speaker 4: living in a time never experienced before. In the speed
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  Speaker 4: with which we live life, there is more time pressure
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  Speaker 4: on us now than I think our parents' parents experienced.
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  Speaker 4: Life was in so many ways a lot simpler in
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  Speaker 4: what we tried to put into our day.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I don't want to get all nostalgic about the fifties.
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  Speaker 2: There was certainly some really challenging things, and I also
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  Speaker 2: don't want to downplay the severity of the trauma that
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  Speaker 2: many people experienced. But what you're suggesting, I think has
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  Speaker 2: a lot of credence to it, because when we speed
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  Speaker 2: things up, we have less time to invest in relationships
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  Speaker 2: we have.
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  Speaker 4: We can't think as clearly more pressure. Yeah, the pressure
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  Speaker 4: is intensifies, and our ability to actually process and think
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  Speaker 4: through our decisions is less. Like it's just that's the
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  Speaker 4: way it works.
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  Speaker 2: Let me read to you what the research has said.
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  Speaker 2: As they described their findings, they said, we examined adverse
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  Speaker 2: childhood experience exposure through a new lens by exploring generational
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  Speaker 2: differences in aces in general and by sexual orientation status.
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  Speaker 2: They say the proportion of people with four or more
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  Speaker 2: ACES considered to be an indicator of potential toxic stress
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  Speaker 2: and trauma. So four is that magic number that's the cutoff.
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  Speaker 2: Four or more is substantially higher for generations following the
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  Speaker 2: Baby boomers. Millennials reported the highest proportion of four or
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  Speaker 2: more ACES, followed by gen Z and then Gen X.
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  Speaker 2: Household depression, drug use, incarceration, divorce, and emotional abuse appeared
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  Speaker 2: to be universally higher across Gen X, millennials and Gen Z,
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  Speaker 2: while several other unique ACES were elevated for each generation.
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  Speaker 2: This finding is consistent with a recent systematic review on
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  Speaker 2: trends in individual ACES that found increases in drug overdoses
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  Speaker 2: from nineteen seventy nine to twenty sixteen and an increase
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  Speaker 2: in the divorce rate from nineteen fifty to two thousand.
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  Speaker 2: And then they step into the LGBTQ plus identity issues,
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  Speaker 2: and I probably don't need to ask you whether you
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  Speaker 2: think that the ACES would be higher according to sexual orientation.
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  Speaker 2: My guess is that massively. Yeah, the answer is kind
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  Speaker 2: of obvious, And this is what they said. LGBTQ plus
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  Speaker 2: identity was associated with greater differences between generations when compared
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  Speaker 2: with Baby boomers.
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  Speaker 3: But not gen X.
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  Speaker 2: Then they dived into a little bit more and they
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  Speaker 2: found that aces were higher overall for LGBTQ plus individuals,
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  Speaker 2: and there are also differences in ACE exposure across generations
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  Speaker 2: for those individuals. So we're talking about the relevance of
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  Speaker 2: this in terms of long term health implications, mental health,
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  Speaker 2: resilience and so on. And I just think it's a
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  Speaker 2: fascinating study to look at overall, whether you look at
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  Speaker 2: it with the sexual identity and orientation stuff included or not,
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  Speaker 2: we see the same pattern. And that is this conversation
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  Speaker 2: that I have consistently with people. The research suggests that
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: life is genuinely for so many getting harder, getting harder,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: speed of life expectations, pressure, financial worries, mental health. It
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: keeps on stacking up. So the reason I wanted to
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: share this on the doctor's desk was number one, to
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  Speaker 2: let people know that if they feel like life is
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  Speaker 2: tough and it feels like it's unfair, the research is
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  Speaker 2: on your side. It's showing that life is tough and
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  Speaker 2: it does seem to be unfair, particularly if there are
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  Speaker 2: any kind of LGBTQ plus identity challenges and orientations that
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  Speaker 2: you are facing, and I use the word challenge not
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  Speaker 2: in a pejorative way, but in a recognition that this
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  Speaker 2: does add a layer of complexity and complication and stress
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  Speaker 2: to life. If you identify in such a way, then
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  Speaker 2: life is almost certain to provide a slightly more challenging
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  Speaker 2: path for you to navigate. And therefore, all the things
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  Speaker 2: that we talk about on this podcast in terms of
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  Speaker 2: connection and helping families to be active and involved and engaged,
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  Speaker 2: all the stuff that we write about and talk about
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  Speaker 2: on this podcast and at happy families dot com dot
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  Speaker 2: you is so important for helping with your well being.
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  Speaker 2: So that's our first study. Let's talk about studying number
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  Speaker 2: two and just a second. It's the Happy Families podcast,
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  Speaker 2: the podcast for the time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 3: Now today it's a doctor's desk study. We've just talked
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  Speaker 3: about aces.
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  Speaker 2: But now it's time to talk about something that shifts
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  Speaker 2: the focus just a little bit.
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  Speaker 3: Kyle, I've come across a study that.
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  Speaker 2: Looks at the way technologically assisted communication relates to the
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  Speaker 2: way our brains work together. That is, if you're having
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  Speaker 2: a whole lot of time on zoom and I don't know,
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  Speaker 2: I mean in the last couple of years, What do
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  Speaker 2: you reckon has been happening a little bit? What does
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  Speaker 2: that do to our brains? So this was a study
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  Speaker 2: that looked at kids and their parents, specifically kids around
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  Speaker 2: about the age of twelve stepping into our lessons and
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  Speaker 2: their mums. And the researchers looked at mums' brains and kids'
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  Speaker 2: brains while they were talking in one of two situations
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  Speaker 2: face to face like you and I are talking right now,
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  Speaker 2: and digitally via zoom to have a look at what
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  Speaker 2: was happening inside their brains.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I'm curious to hear what the findings were.
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  Speaker 2: So let me ask you, what do you think would
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  Speaker 2: there be much different? I mean everyone talks about zoom
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  Speaker 2: fatigue and having like that computer brain thing that happens.
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  Speaker 2: Do you get that same kind of thing if you
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  Speaker 2: sit in a conversation with somebody for too long? Do
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  Speaker 2: you find that your brain slows down? If you're sitting
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  Speaker 2: on the beach with me and talking, or if we're
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  Speaker 2: going for a walk and talking, if we're face to
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  Speaker 2: face and engaging with each other, or if you're spending
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  Speaker 2: time with the kids and they're telling you about the day,
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  Speaker 2: do you still zone out in the same way that
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  Speaker 2: you can when you're on a zoom call.
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  Speaker 4: No, I don't think.
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  Speaker 2: So what's your capacity for attention on a zoom call? Like,
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  Speaker 2: how long until you start to wonder if you can
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  Speaker 2: flick between screens without anybody noticing?
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  Speaker 4: Well, I don't do zoom meetings like you do, so
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  Speaker 4: I don't really have much to navigate.
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  Speaker 3: Sure, but you've done plenty of them over the last
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  Speaker 3: couple of years.
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  Speaker 4: What I will say in my own experience is that
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  Speaker 4: I definitely get more out of our conversation if I
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  Speaker 4: can't be with you in person, if I can see
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  Speaker 4: you as opposed to just the typical landline hanging up
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  Speaker 4: against the wall conversation.
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  Speaker 2: So what are you saying, you'd rather FaceTime me than
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: just have a phone call. Yeah, see, I find it
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  Speaker 2: the opposite. I would rather have a phone call than
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: do the FaceTime. I feel like there's more connection in
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  Speaker 2: a phone call than in a FaceTime call.
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  Speaker 3: So if I'm.
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  Speaker 4: Talking to you, yes, because I see you and I
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  Speaker 4: get time with you. But for people that I don't like,
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  Speaker 4: so I've got friends in America, I would much rather
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  Speaker 4: FaceTime with them because I feel like even though I'm
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: not with them, I can actually just be with them
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  Speaker 4: in that moment, if that makes sense. I get that
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  Speaker 4: visual connection as well as the voice recognition.
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  Speaker 2: See, I just like to face on them because I
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  Speaker 2: don't have to pay for a phone call. I can
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  Speaker 2: use Wi Fi and.
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  Speaker 4: I would rather Yes, I agree with you. If it's
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  Speaker 4: people that I have in my life on a regular basis,
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  Speaker 4: then I will have a much better conversation with them
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  Speaker 4: if I am just having a phone call.
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  Speaker 3: So here's what the research has found.
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  Speaker 2: We've got sixty two mother child pairs and they're signed
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  Speaker 2: up to what's called.
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  Speaker 3: A preregistered study, which means that the researchers.
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  Speaker 2: Have done all of this the right way, and we're
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  Speaker 2: looking at their EEG. Brain to brain synchrony. What's happening
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  Speaker 2: in mum's brain is that happening in the kid's brain.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: What's happening in the kid's brain. Is that happening in
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  Speaker 2: mum's brain. Okay, these kids are on average around about
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: twelve years of age. They range from ten to fourteen.
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  Speaker 2: They're having a live, face to face interaction, and they're
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: also having a technologically assisted remote communication. Now here's what
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  Speaker 2: I think is fascinating. The live interaction face to face,
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  Speaker 2: no screens involved, elicited what the research has described as
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  Speaker 2: nine significant cross brain links between densely interconnected frontal and
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: temporal areas of the brain. In other words, they identified
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  Speaker 2: the brain really lighting up. There's a high level of
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  Speaker 2: engagement in nine significant cross brain links.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, well, the experience that you have when you're face
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  Speaker 4: to face with someone is three dimensional. Yeah, you actually
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  Speaker 4: you get to see the nuances that you don't pick
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  Speaker 4: up on the screen, like because when I'm looking at
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  Speaker 4: somebody on zoom, I'm seeing their face more times than night. Right, Sure,
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  Speaker 4: but when I'm having a conversation with you, I can
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  Speaker 4: see that your body stiffens up if I say something
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  Speaker 4: that you're you're not happy about, or if it kind
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: of rubs you up the wrong way, or I get
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: to smell you, and it could be you, it could
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: be your friend. But do you know what I mean,
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  Speaker 4: there's just.
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  Speaker 3: All of my things, like puppy dogs, all.
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  Speaker 4: Of my senses are engaged in a face to face conversation.
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  Speaker 2: And that's that's what the research found. So there's nine
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  Speaker 2: significant cross brain links. Now for those who are nearer
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  Speaker 2: anatomically focused and aware and trained mothers right frontal region
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  Speaker 2: connected with the child's right and left front temporal and
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: central regions, suggesting its regulatory role in organizing the two
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: brain dynamics. Okay, but here's the here's the really important thing.
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  Speaker 2: Looking at the remote online interaction, that conversation elicited only
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: one significant cross brain cross hemisphere link. Essentially, what that
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: means we're comparing nine links to one in a face
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  Speaker 2: to face versus a digital interaction.
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  Speaker 3: The results of this.
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  Speaker 2: Are I think fascinating in terms of highlighting that our
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: brains simply do not attend nearly as well to what's
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: going on online as what they do with what's happening
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: face to face.
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  Speaker 4: Our eight year old has discovered FaceTime with her friends.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: We've obviously moved to the coast, and she's keeping in
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: touch with a couple of her friends, and I wasn't
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: aware until recently. I was kind of a bit more
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: intent and listening to the conversation. I realized it was
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: quite stilted, right, and she was actually asking the same
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: question numerous times. So I kind of just stepped in
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: to check in on her and recognized that she's got
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: her friend up in a tiny, little screen on the
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: left hand side. But she's playing a computer game right
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: on my phone while she's talking. So she's worked out
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: that I won't let her play games on my phone,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: but if she asks for a phone call that she
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: will be able to do it because spin a little
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: bit sneaky and just the recognition that if she was
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: in that space with her friend, I wouldn't see them
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: for hours. Yeah, like they are completely engaged, have so
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: much fun together.
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  Speaker 3: But introduced the screen.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: Introduce the screen and there's too much distruction. Yeah, there's
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: too many other things that are pulling for her attention.
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  Speaker 2: So I asked before how long you can sit on
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: a zoom call before you get distracted and want to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: start scrolling or checking out other websites or well, you.
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: Would have lots of experience with this, So where do
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: you sit.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I'm good for about twelve seconds, I really am. But
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: if I'm with somebody, I want to put my phone
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: as far away from me as I can. There's an
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: intrinsic draw towards being in relationship when I'm face to
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: face that you introduce a screen as the method of interaction.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Even people who mean a lot to me. I struggle
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: to sustain focused attention and if we go back to
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: that study that brain to brain synchrony, I believe I mean,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: in hindsight, this is kind of from the University of Duh,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: but I believe them when they say there's only one
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: link that they're finding versus the nine that they're finding
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: in high quality face to face interactions. I guess to
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: take home message really is keep your kids off screens.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Get them to interact face to face as much as possible,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: and if they are going to be interacting with others
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: on screen, do it you can to help them to
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: focus intentionally on the interaction and not disappear into games
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: and other web pages. Like the purpose is interaction, the
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: purpose is conversation. I really hope that you've enjoyed our
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: doctor's desk conversation today. The Happy Families podcast is produced
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: executive producer. Hey, thanks so much for joining us. We'll
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: talk to you tomorrow.