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Emails: Healing Em, Healing Me · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you. We have an email today, and it's an epic one. Sarah says, hi, Emma and friends. Wow.
• 1:11
  It's all I can say because there are never enough words to express how much I've grown just listening to your podcast. I started listening years ago. I think it was around when you first started, But I was in so much denial listening and relating so deeply left me angry without understanding why. I grew up with a mom having DID, and I remember so many nights praying to God that I would not have DID when I got older. Little did I know that damage had already been done.
• 1:43
  So wrapping my head around the diagnoses now ten years later has been something of a miracle. And I use the word wrapped loosely as I'm not sure I will ever get used to it. I'm now at the episode where your new book, If Tears Were Prayers, was just released. And man, oh, man, are you brave. Good for you.
• 2:07
  I cry in every episode about your therapist as I have had many. Mai first told me after a year, after my first ever flashback that he doesn't do trauma, and I'd have to find another. The next one, well, she lasted one session when she told me not to do anything crazy because she doesn't wanna put me in the hospital at Christmas time. And then the next one who I had for four years, not knowing that four to five hours of flashbacks every session, holy water thrown on me and demons being cast out was not normal. Nor was her telling me that God was telling her that she was my new mother.
• 2:51
  Oh, I can't. I can't. Talk about confusing. My little still struggle with trusting therapists after her. A few more bad therapists later, and I've successfully been with my now therapist for three years, and I'm seeing a light or what I think is a light.
• 3:17
  I also relate with the big family life. We have seven kiddos, and three of them are adopted. And then there are some details I wanna keep private. Sorry. This is so long.
• 3:28
  I've chickened out from writing this for so long, and it's all backed up. I hope you all know just how much you mean to those around you and those who have the pleasure and privilege of listening to you share. Thank you so much. Oh my goodness. This email.
• 3:47
  I can't even there's so many things I wanna say. First of all, welcome. Welcome. I'm so glad you're here, and I'm so glad the podcast has been helpful. That always encourages me because to do what we do takes an enormous amount of support, And I am talking about emotional and mental and relational support because we are diving so deep into our wounds.
• 4:20
  I think also so many people can relate to what you're saying about your mom because even if our moms did not have DID, so many of us had moms or carers who were themselves either frightened or sometimes frightening, plus the whole gamut of everything in between. And so it felt very DID, even if it wasn't really. But that is really hard. And then also as being a mom myself and wanting to do well, not just by the children, but by their biological families who are even more important. Like, that is always their first attachment.
• 5:07
  Right? So it matters to me what they experience in life, and I know I'm gonna cry. I know we cannot prevent life from happening, and I know they will have their own stories of their own experiences and that our family has been through so much for lots of reasons. And also, they're amazing souls, and I'm so honored to know them and to continue to watch them grow and heal and their families grow and heal. And for that reunification that's coming is such a beautiful thing.
• 5:52
  For you also recognizing or understanding what it's like to have a big family, what it's like to have medical trauma and some of the more private things that you shared. I so appreciate that. I really, really do. Coming to the book, I can't believe you're there. I feel a little bit called out because we still have not released the audiobook because I have to listen to those files, and it is so intense.
• 6:29
  I wanna tell you an experience, and I think I have permission to share this. I have a friend who actually waited to read the book and is only just now getting into it. So it's wild that I got this email because I'm having this parallel experience in real life. And my friend mentioned something from the book that took me back to the time, like, more recent memory time, back to this, to what you're writing about from when we were releasing the book. And how long ago that feels now, and in hindsight, how difficult things were and how desperate I was for getting through that season and trying to turn all of that journaling into something that means something.
• 7:32
  And I know that our book is not the same as everyone's experience. I know also there are overlaps with experiences related to my mom and some of the things that she was enacting and acting out, kind of like you were talking about moms with DID. But I think that, and I have talked recently in therapy about that season in our life and how hard it is, and also the healing that I finally feel like that we have experienced, that M part of me. And I think it goes there's so many things I'm trying to share at the same time. I think part of it is one of those experiences of a retired A and P where I am not that kind of mom anymore, which I think is a good thing.
• 8:38
  And also, Em was so deeply grieved at trying to be what was literally impossible to be. Because we could not live up to shiny, happy expectations that were not even reality based and unfair to us and the children. So maybe also some moral injury in there, like, I'm sorry they had to grow up in any of that, Even though we also, my therapist keeps reminding me that we've brought them through to the other side and that's what matters, but it's a hard thing. And also I think part of what is so healing, and I might even use the word integrative, like I would not have thought of using that word or inviting in into anything of my experience. But in talking about it with my friend this week and talking about it in therapy, I think what heals her, what brings her into now time and hope and healing, what gives her peace at last in a way that is wellness instead of death is literally the peace of coming full circle to understanding those expectations that she could never meet or live up to were never even real.
• 10:25
  And that her distress about it was a witness to the injustice of it. And very similar to a right to run kind of concept, if you've heard that episode. She was right to drown. I'm glad we did not actually drown. But she was right.
• 11:00
  What was being asked of her was too much. What was being demanded of us was too much. What the external world and system put our family through was cruel. And her feelings about that were on target, were on point, were exactly right. And I think that is something I can gift myself now that I could not at the time.
• 11:36
  What to do about the book itself? I don't know. I don't know. But your email and the conversation with my friend this week and taking all of that to therapy and talking about it, I truly feel like healed something in me, like settled. And, you know, my kids are literally right now, I'm recording this while I wait for them to get here from the airport.
• 12:13
  Nathan and the kids, they've been gone all summer, and they're coming back now right now. And we're getting ready to have a big weekend of events and time together, and we're trying to teach him about family reunions because the kids are gonna be the triplets will be 18 next year. And so we did this. We bookended the summer visits with a whole weekend together where we had hotel time and and touristy kinds of things and outings and kind of really a big celebration of who we are as a family, even though our family is such a completely different shape than it was back at this time at this book when we were writing the book in this episode, releasing the book. And you guys, I think I I have been feeling sad leading into this, and partly because, I'm gonna cry again.
• 13:18
  There's I'm having so many big feelings. I had as good of a summer as last summer was impossibly painful and devastating. I had as good of a summer as all of the hell that violated me over the last few years. I had as good of a summer as I had like, better than I had ever daydreamed for my life, except it was real. And the healing of that and the showing up, and the being back in the community, and the seeing friends.
• 13:59
  I just saw M today in a group randomly. I didn't know M was gonna be there, but people in the community know who M was. M was back, and I was so completely delighted. I just cried. And the healing of the pain from this conversation where we release the book and talk about releasing the book and everything that has happened literally in the five years since you sent this email almost on the anniversary of the episode recording.
• 14:39
  And it has been five years, and we are in such a better place. And I think that is what heals and integrates that M experience because she was right to be distressed about all the things she was distressed about. She was right to feel overwhelmed. She was right to feel isolated. She was like, that was accurate information she was trying to tell the rest of us as a system.
• 15:16
  It was never that she was bad. It was never that she was wrong. She was right. And bringing that full circle to now, we didn't run away from the family. We healed our family.
• 15:34
  We didn't escape a marriage. We claimed our life. And coming full circle to today, when the kids get here, and tonight, I've got dinner in the crock pot, like comfort food they love. We're going to watch a football game, and football season has started, and we've got our outfits ready. And there will be snacks and all the things, And we will be happy, and we are healthy.
• 16:14
  We are so much better. I hope that gets reflected as you all get to hear some of this. After hearing, I feel like you all have heard the worst of the worst. And because you don't always get to see the other side of what that looks like as we heal and grow, that that doesn't always come across because that's real life. And here, we're showing up to talk about the trauma and the dissociation.
• 16:40
  Right? But to be present in our own life and for it to be good, for us to come out on the other side and be okay, I think that's where the healing is. That's what healing is, and it's amazing. And I so appreciate the opportunity to reflect on that and even share that m update if I can. I didn't expect it to be an integrative experience, but I just had chills all over my body because I feel that.
• 17:14
  And to gift her a weekend like we're about to have, where she can see the kids are okay. We're okay. Everyone is so much better and healthier and happier because what she gave, because what she did, because of what she brought to our attention. I think that is everything healing is about. And I love that I got to share this.
• 17:42
  Thank you so much for writing that. The other piece that you wrote about that I can't not share is this piece about the therapist saying she's your new mother. Because, y'all, that's not a thing. That's not a thing. And you are right to be distressed about that happening.
• 18:11
  There are actually episodes about this coming in November and December. In different ways, I talk about it, But here's what is really, really important to understand, and I'll try to keep it simple because this is emails, and we do talk about it later. But here's what is really important and very painful to understand. But if we can hold hope in this space of, like, I'm coming full circle to this place of healing and light, this piece also comes to healing and light. I promise it does.
• 18:45
  But it is a dark and painful piece to soak in before you get to the other side. And that is we can never ever have a new mother, not like the daydream, Because whatever has already happened with our parents, when we were little, when we were babies, happened already in the past. It's already done. And that can feel like hell. That can feel so deeply painful.
• 19:26
  That can feel like death because it very well could have been. And just like with the example of Em, which I now love, has she's become this symbol of healing. That is so restorative to me. I tears are just pouring down my face. I wish you could see.
• 19:49
  Just like that, the pain that we feel that is so devastating and debilitating is the pain that witnesses our wounds. But there is no one who can go into memory time with us to pick up that baby. We have to pick up our own babies. I was talking about that with someone this week. Y'all, if I was downtown, we have the cutest little downtown and it's right by the river, so I get to spend all this time healing my soul at the river.
• 20:35
  But there's people and families out everywhere and restaurants all along the way where you can sit. And there's families there all the time. Do you all know what would happen if I just walked up to one of those families, grabbed their baby, and took off? We cannot pick up other people's babies. We have to pick up our own baby.
• 20:59
  I know also that it sucks because we have already reparented ourselves. We have already had to parent ourselves for the first time. That is part of what we mourn and grieve. And yes, it hurts. And also, we don't leave babies behind.
• 21:26
  Therapists can help us pick up the baby. Therapists can help us find the baby. Therapists can walk alongside us while we carry the baby, but we are the only ones who can pick up the baby. The other reason this is very important is because sometimes we will find ourselves in situations where we are expecting our partners or our dates to pick up the baby, or someone expects us to pick up their baby. We cannot.
• 22:01
  We cannot. And there cannot be sexual relationships where there is anything involved even close to picking up the baby because we do not rape babies. I know that's heavy, and I know that's heavy language, and we'll talk about it again at the end of the year. But it's really, really important because when we have been abused and there are sexualized children in our systems, I'm not saying that's what has happened to everybody, but those of us who that is what happened, acting that out with someone else's skin is not going to make that wound better inside. And then we get set up in a reenactment or an enactment when we're not using the words.
• 22:59
  We're just doing the things. We're showing through behaviors what's happening, and then we do it again, and we do it again, and we do it again. Those are the reenactments. And as long as we run around this planet, as long as we're running around looking for someone else to pick up the baby, it will continue to be enactment. It will continue to be reenactment as we do it over and over again.
• 23:28
  We have to stop running from the baby. We have to stop trying to get away from the pain. We have to turn and face it and look at this tiny, tiny witness of our pain and feel it and pick up that baby and welcome that baby into safety in now time, not because now time is perfect. I am not talking talking about external circumstances and now time. When we say now time is safe, we are talking about I am safe with my self.
• 24:17
  That is the only thing I have control over, is how I treat myself, how I respond to myself, and how I respond to the world around me. And I cannot be healthy and well if I am picking up other people's babies. Even in the external world, I have adopted other people's babies, externally physical babies that had nowhere to go. Even then, my job is to keep those babies safe until they can go live their lives, until their families are safe enough also, until they themselves are adults and don't need me in the same way. I do not still carry them around.
• 25:09
  They are off driving. They are off walking to the park. They are off doing their things. Right now, they are on their way back from the airport to be home. Y'all, they're not coming to see me.
• 25:23
  They're coming to swim. I mean, they will also see me, and we will be delighted to see each other. But do you see what I mean? We pick up the babies and help the babies grow. We are the ones in charge of keeping the babies safe.
• 25:43
  I am sure if we give this therapist that you wrote about the benefit of the doubt, that this therapist meant well. But when you say it was distressing and you felt it in your gut, that is part of why, and it is a learning moment for that therapist. Because to heal, we have to pick up our own babies. Sarah, thank you so much for writing in. I hope that you get to this episode eventually.
• 26:20
  If you are at the episode where we release the book, you're about to have the whole experience. You may not even hear this until later. You are about to have the whole experience of time jumping because of the episodes that are still missing. I'm still trying to get those up. I'm sorry it's gonna be out of order for a hot minute.
• 26:39
  And also, and also, that's how much that season hurt. And that's how unsafe I have felt since until now. And now the episodes are coming back. We are so much better. The kids are so much better.
• 26:55
  Even Nathan is so much better. I don't know if by the time this airs, you will have heard him back on the podcast. That time we were at the park with the kids, and I was just randomly recording. But we are all so much better, and there is strength and hope in that. And I am so grateful for you bringing this up.
• 27:18
  Thank you. And Em? Em got it right. Oh my goodness. Thinking about getting it right and thinking about writing the book totally makes me think of Galileo.
• 27:31
  I think we should do Galileo specifically to honor Em. And I think that we will do the song Because Em got it right. And I could thank her. Thank me. And just let that something more than inclusion, something very integrative happen as I feel that and play that and sing that.
• 28:06
  Oh, this is magic. Again, it is as good as it was hard, and I think that is the beautiful math of healing. Galileo, let's do it. Maybe for her, this is one we sing as a family.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: As the bombshells of my daily fears explode, I try to trace them to my you. Then you had to bring a reincarnation over a couple of years the other night. And now I'm serving time for mistakes made by another in another lifetime.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in Community together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
• 32:37
  We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also care for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community, and not there for dating, and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too. That's what peer support is all about.
• 33:05
  Being human together. So yeah, sometimes we'll see you there.