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Unlocking New Paths in Trauma Recovery with Dr. Janell Royster · Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Denny thanks man, hey listeners, hey, welcome to another episode of Broken Brains, the only show in America that we know of right now that's focused on the huge problem that's being caused by repeated head impacts in sports, repeated blast exposures to our military personnel, and the enormous amounts of suffering and silence and mental illness that's accompanying individuals that have been exposed.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: With us today is a very special guest because she's in an area that I really want to dig into.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Very special guest because she's in an area that I really want to dig into.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: It's Dr Janelle Royster, and she is a psychologist out of Lakeland, Florida.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: We got introduced by one of our I think our second guest on the show, which was Marissa McCarthy.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So, Dr Royster, tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure to have you on the show.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for inviting me, thank you for Dr McCarthy for connecting us and thank you for your service.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: So what I do is very interesting.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I've had a lot of trauma myself and with that I had to figure out a different way than talk therapy.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I had to figure out a different way than talk therapy.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: So for me it was after I received my doctorate.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I decided to get help and that didn't go so well because, talking about my betrayal traumas, I had a very negative reaction to talk therapy.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: So I luckily went back to school because you know, doctor, heal thyself.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: And I got a second master's in clinical mental health counseling.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: So I have an associate's, a bachelor's, in psychology, a master's, doctorate in industrial organizational psychology.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: So I'm a psychologist but I am not a clinical psychologist.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So the degrees are considerably different, because an IO psych is more about streamlining and simplifying and you kind of associate business with psychology together.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: And then I went back to school to get licensed.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: On the licensure track to get a clinical mental health counseling, I was on 12 different medications.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: It was not great, it was just you was just basically treating one medication with side effect after side effect after side effect.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: So for me I knew there was a better way, just didn't know what it was.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: When I graduated with my master's in mental health counseling I met a few people who had served like I did.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I served in the Air Force, they served in the Army National Guard, several other places.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: So I was lucky enough to bond with some of those people.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I said thank you for your service to them.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Oh you're worth it yeah.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Now they are.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: So I decided to kind of follow his lead and he's dragging me around to all these different trainings, so now I'm trained in about 37 different therapeutic modalities.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a Chinese menu right there.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Anyone?
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, yeah.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So and they talk a lot about trauma and different interventions.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: So you have trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapy.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: You have prolonged exposure, which is what the VA used to put everyone through.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Now you have eye movement desensitization, reprocessing, which is what the VA used to put everyone through.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Now you have eye movement desensitization, reprocessing, which is the big one.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Accelerated resolution therapy, reconsolidation, traumatic memory.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So for me, I got certified in everything trauma-related I could find so that I could help myself, so that I could help other people.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: But what I've realized is there's a lot of therapists and psychologists out there that get trained in one or two different modalities and they just kind of stick with that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: It's like that's what's worked for me.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: So that's what I'm going to choose to use with you, and a lot of people who go to therapy have a preconceived notion that it's going to be talk therapy.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: You have to talk through every feeling you have.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: That's not necessarily true with us.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I mean us, because I created a private practice and I'm currently getting a second doctorate traumatology so I can specialize.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Traumatology, that's.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: That's like a specialty.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, traumatology, that's, that's like a specialty.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's a study of trauma specifically designed for those who deal with trauma focused individuals.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: You know individuals who have been through significant trauma.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: When I started out, you have to do your internship and then your clinicals and all this.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I worked in acute care psychiatric facility first.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Where does all the trauma go there?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: The reason they call it a revolving door is because you will do all the completion of the intake paperwork.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: You bring an individual in who's really struggling, you get them on the right medications and then they leave.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Well, 30 days after that they may not be able to get to the bus, they may not have money for the next prescription, you know so.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: There's so many varying factors so that when they, when they uh stop taking their medications, their symptoms come back and then they're back in the acute care because they're behaving in such a way that they don't have a choice, because if they don't have money to take a bus to get a medication fulfilled, luckily now we have everything.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: This is after covet, but this is back.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: You know 15 years ago that we didn't have, uh, the benefits we have now with telehealth or doing podcasts like this, right right?
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: no, absolutely after that I did.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I worked um in a psychologist's office and we worked with human traffic survivors on the south side of Chicago.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: So that was interesting.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: So it just.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I continued to be exposed to individuals who were struggling through their traumas and having my best friend die of suicide, and you know I have an ex-husband who put a bullet in his chest while I was on the phone with him.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: So those are the huge traumatic events in my life and those are what transitioned me into being trauma focused and helping as many people as I can.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Well, luckily, the way my brain works because all the streamline and simplify education I've had, I've taken a myriad of different modalities and connected them together and created what's called trauma recovery intervention protocol.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Now, this is a visual imagery process.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I use numbers within and it streamlines the process without anybody having to tell me one how they feel, because sitting in those feelings is something you do all the time.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I don't need you to do it with me.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: No absolutely, and uh, you don't have to tell me your story, we just go through this protocol.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: So these, these protocols, you know, and when we deal with the brains that we're talking about, they're heavily impacted by contact, sports or military service, especially blast injuries and, of course, trauma.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: You know seeing, you know, dead people being able to, or being asked to, perform horrific acts in order to come back to your family.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: You know, we noticed that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: You know, with the VA and a lot of the programs that they go to, it's it's therapy and drugs.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: You know, there's not a lot of treatment options, even though we know there's a lot of treatment options now that are available, not not covered.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So do you use before we get to that?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: So do you?
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: The therapy practices that you use right now are visual?
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Are they designed to not use pharmaceuticals at all or to try to minimize that?
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Because that is the number one concern we're hearing from parents, and you know so parents of children, the athletes themselves and soldiers.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Just, I don't want to be on these drugs.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: These drugs are not doing me any good at all.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Well, like I said, I was on 12 different medications at the same time and one of those was a depression med and I was by no means depressed and I saw I actually had active visual hallucinations on that medication.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So rather than take me off that medication for depression that I didn't have and no one screened me for so there were no evaluations done to determine if I was truly depressed or not, they just told me I was because of what I went through, so they put me on a medication, then another one, then another one.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Then by the time I saw, you know, I mean, there was just one day I opened the medicine cabinet, there were 12 medications with my name on it and I just grabbed them all and dumped them in the garbage.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Now I will tell you, there were considerable I had.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I mean it's it's no different than getting off any drug that you're addicted to, you know.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: So my, I had to go through a series of processes that I knew about.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Luckily, as a therapist, there are things that I can use, that I advocate to my clients, that I can.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I can pull these resources right, but a lot of people don't have those benefits.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I met Dr Dutourie at a fundraiser.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: He's also known as Dr Deepsea and I'm sure you met him.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: He spoke at your conference, you said, and he's a very, very, very good friend of mine.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: So I met him and he saw the benefits of my work because I put him through it.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: He called me on a Sunday and he was going through some things and I showed up at his house because that's what I do.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So I drove about two hours to get to him and I ran him through a couple of protocols and we've been friends ever since since.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: But what happened is after this event?
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Um, because he was a navy commander for about 28 years, so he's seen, been through lots and lots, plus I mean diving at almost 3 000 feet, like that's.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of pressure on your brain yes, so he got into a car accident where he was t-boated and, uh, the hospital had sent him and I'll let him tell you his story but there were a couple protocols that I put him through that really helped.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: So he decided he was going to pave the way, and what he did is he created a hyperbaric clinic, and what it is is it's a bunch of veterans Well, yeah, a bunch of veterans and he did a study with the university of South Florida, because that's where he's a professor at as well.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: So he owns um H2O, which is a hyperbaric oxygen place right off of West shore.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: And then he uh did a study with USF.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: It was a small study I think he had for like 40 participants with individuals, veterans, that had traumatic brain injuries, and then 40 sessions of hyperbaric medicine and it was life-changing.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: But on top of that he was also doing a tbi clinic, which is hyperbaric exercise nutrition.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Uh, they work with me, you know, once or twice a week.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: They have physical therapy, massage therapy, um, and the massage therapist does this um different type of therapy where it's your occipital lobe, in the back of your neck, and it's just unreal yeah, so there's a chiropractor involved.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: There's just this whole person wellness program but no drugs.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, no, no medication yeah, that's so important and we do recommend so.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: There is another veteran.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: His name is scott yotes and he practices out of tampa as well, but what's cool about him is him and his wife.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I think his wife is a doctor and she uh they work side by side and what he does is he does an assessment and then you go get a blood panel done and then you take it back to them and they determine what amino acids and peptides that your deficit in okay, yeah and they give you what you need, so that you're not looking for the only challenge.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I know there are a lot of people and I don't run, I'm not.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I'm not pro or anti medication, but I will say that, uh, we don't know what it does to the brain, unfortunately, because these medications are universal and our brains are individualized.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I keep hearing that as a theme.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: That's why there's no single silver bullet for mental illness, or especially when it comes to the brain Trip is doing very well.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I will say it's a neurological intervention that disconnects the emotions from the events.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: So what happens is your brain doesn't understand chronology.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: It has no idea that something same, similar, that's happening now to make you angry, happened when you were eight years old.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: It just thinks you're eight, all over again.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: So on a subjective unit of distress level is what we use all the time, on a scale of one to 10.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: You go into the primary care physician's office and you have this lovely little scale and it's got a bunch of happy faces on it right and one is angry and one.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: You know where you're in the most pain 10 is the most pain and one is happy.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: That's kind of how we assess where people are emotionally.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: So we really focus on, like, where are you at?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Are you at a level three?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Do feel it?
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Does it feel farther away?
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: You know, so we, when we go through this protocol that only takes six or seven minutes.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Uh, what we do is is we see the shift.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: We see the shift in the person.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: The person has let go per se, because the challenges is our prefrontal cortex sends us down rabbit holes.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Well, what if this, what if this, what if that?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Because our brain is always trying to find a solution to a problem, and sometimes, when you have a traumatic brain injury, the highways are no longer connected.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the reasons the benefit of hyperbaric is because that's 100% compressed oxygen and it opens all of that back up.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the work that Joe's done right now with HBOT is really promising.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: It's how do we scale it, how do we make it available, how do we go?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Well, so he just received a huge grant and he's going to treat.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: He's got six hyperbaric chambers.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: They just got him in.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: He showed me pictures two Sundays ago and I saw him in an event, I went to a dive fundraiser and he was there.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, they got six new beds and I'm pretty sure they're going to treat up to 600 veterans in the state of Florida.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Wow, good for him, man.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I mean it's amazing.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: We need more studies.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: You know to to.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: You know, for some reason, you know HBOT's considered and you know, on the edge, where you know the stuff that you know you see me doing the protocols that you're that you're that you've developed right now are a little bit more acceptable within the medical community right now.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I mean it's.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: You would be surprised.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I do contract with a few companies.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: One of them is called Telemind and I contract with them as a clinician and you're only allowed to use evidence-based protocols.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: So my you know.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, is there's no harm done in some of these interventions?
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I ask you what your favorite food is, that doesn't harm you.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: No, but that's one of the questions in the protocol.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Well, the issue is that the evidence-based protocols have failed to, you know, provide the relief or the improvement in our suffering veteran populations, and we're not even really using them for our well.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: That's all we use our children right now and we have no indication of understanding why they might be suffering.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: As a psychologist, have you ever received training in the area of repeated head impacts, repeated blast exposure and the links to those to brain damage and the subsequent mental illness that arises from that brain damage?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a lot, and it's typically because the same area, like I said, the neural highways, that's what I call them right Neuropathways neural highways.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: The highways of the brain are actually broken and you have.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: There are different ways that you have to approach those and you know Dr McCarthy sends me a lot of clients because that's your bet.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Well, part of it is if you don't heal the brain, you can't.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: It's hard to heal the body, right.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Well, the problem that we're having right now is that, because of sub-concussive trauma, unlike a TBI or a concussive event, there are no symptoms, there is no known damage to the brain.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: So these individuals are coming across, they're coming to psychologists and they're going in front of them and they're being like when I lost my son, I went to a psychologist.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: You're going to end up in front of one and she's looking at me, she goes, she goes.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Our entire community is not trained in this issue.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: So these kids come in.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: They have no known concussive pass, no known TBI pass.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: They're being evaluated as crazy children and nobody's asking them hey, how long have you played contact sports?
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And that's what, to your point, damage your, the damages their brain.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: And that's where your protocols are so valuable is that you're coming up with a different way of addressing this damage.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: But first of all, we got to get these kids and veterans and adults assessed for long-term exposure and the damage.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: You know, because if they never had a TBI, then you're just you as a psychologist.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just dealing with a PTSD case or a crazy person.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: No, that guy's shot thousands of 50 caliber rounds, or he's been.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: He played football for 20 years before he joined the military, whatever it is Right and um.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: So we really got to start getting this education expanded for you to be informed on that.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I mean it's amazing because we don't run into a lot of psychologists and the need is dire to to put this in education somehow.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I agree wholeheartedly and I think you're spot on with regard I did.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I did go to a conference and I saw, you know, there were a couple of people that were talking about like neuroscience, cognitive behavioral therapy, and I also think it's got a lot to do with our intakes.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: When we first take on a client, you know cause I am in private practice so I get to see the the business side of it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Right, and normally you know you contract with a therapist, you give her a client, she does what she does and they're on their way, whereas if you're a business owner you see a little bit more of that and you can go okay on this first mental health intake.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: So that I get to know you like what are the common questions.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: But for me, because I'm trauma focused, I have to ask different things.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: And sometimes when you have a child who comes to you and they're 13, 14, 15 years old and there's been no significant life changes, nobody's getting divorced, nobody has passed on, they have all the same friends.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Nothing has changed except for the fact that they've been playing hockey since they were seven.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Right but you asked that question.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Most psychologists do not.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: And that's what we're trying to understand is how, in your opinion, how would we expand that awareness?
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Because it is, you know, it's just like in the military now.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: They're now starting to understand the importance of how long have you been a Navy SEAL or Green Beret, or you know how many blasts have you exposed to that didn't cause symptoms?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Right, we're looking at lifestyles now.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: So how do we get these lifestyle questions into psychology so that the average psychologist out there, if you're mentally ill, I mean, there is a statistically significant sampling of the child and adult populations who are playing or who have played extensive amounts of sports in their lives, but they're not being, you know, and sometimes the symptoms can't.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: It won't emanate for 20 years, right?
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden I'm 35, 45.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I have this midlife crisis.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to run down the street with my 25 year old neighborhood, I'm done with my family and nobody said that guy played hockey from seven all the way through college.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Right, how do we?
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: You know, because that's that's what you know our foundation is is focused on is expanding the awareness of this issue so that we can identify people that need your modalities that are properly aligned with the causality that put them in front of you in the first place.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: How do we get that all start?
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: because I think it's.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: It's creating awareness and letting people shift, uh, their thought process and um also, you know, making these standardized intakes and have them elaborate on them, because you can ask 60, 70, 80 questions on that thing and, yes, it's tedious to you as the client, but at the same time.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: How much time do you want to spend in therapy?
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Do you want eight sessions or do you want 42?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Right, I prefer eight.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And you're one of the yeah, that's the other side.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Is that?
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: How do we get off this?
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: You know this, uh ka-ching, you know wheel in psychology, where you know people are, we have to get these people back to work on the job parenting the whole nine yards.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: You have a remarkably a remarkable uh you know perspective on this.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: It's very enlightening and I really appreciate the type of truth.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I rejected the snot out of therapy, which is why I have to do it different.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: So for me, I have created.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I've been so lucky to be exposed to the individuals I've been exposed to.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I have a dude who's a diplomat in here hypnotherapy, so if you can't seem to let something go, he will help you and he's army, so he just like talks at you and you feel better.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how he does it yeah, I close my eyes and he's talking to me and I'm driving on this windy road.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I visualize this and all the trees are like hanging over the road.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: You know, like that southern moss, and you know because I'm all right, I need to see this guy and all you see is the trees kind of hovering over the road, and then, I don't know, seven minutes later I feel better.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I have no idea what he said to me, but that's the difference between clinical hypnosis and talk show hypnosis, where they make you bark like a chicken, like that's not things we can do.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: We don't make anybody bark like a chicken or dance naked and you know sing bob seger songs like that's not a thing, so don't be worried, uh.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: But what it is is it's kind of talking and breathing and kind of giving you a different perspective.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: And what it does is it slows down that prefrontal cortex, the thing that's causing you anxiety, fear, the hesitation of trust, right?
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: So when you're with a therapist, you want to be able to trust this person has the skills to help you get better.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Now I also tell my clients, like I am not the person who's going to sit here and go.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I understand, I hear you.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Wow, that must have been difficult.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Like that's not me.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I have, I have other therapists.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I can tell and they will listen to you and they will let you verbally process, because it's all great, it's whatever you need.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Look, you need to be jumping up and down on a unicorn and singing Kumbaya, go to go forth.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I don't care.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of people that talk about ayahuasca and MDMA and microdose and psilocybin.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, ketamine, sure.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: What do you need in the moment?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Because we need to get you from the point where you're thinking about choosing between a bottle and a bullet.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my concern.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Let's get you away from that, right, and then we'll focus on the other stuff, but I'm very direct and very focused.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Explain if you could, um for the audience, the difference between your approach to psychotherapy and, like you know, cbt right, cognitive behavioral therapy, some of the more evidence-based approved therapy models that just aren't working, I mean, are I?
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I am part of a research, my own personal research project, where I'm using a lot of different psychedelics.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to retreats like facilisibin, ayahuasca, ketamine, and you know, because there is on the treatment side, you know, evidence they do improve brain function, they rewire the brain, because we have brain damage.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: We don't just have, you know, we have, you know, the highway problem, right, that you were talking about.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: We have chemical imbalances, you know hormonal imbalances, but we've got structural damage that we have to fix and these things, can talk, won't fix this right.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: So we need to.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: You know we have this other aspect of the brain.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: You're a whole nother level.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: That's another.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Well, this is just another aspect of it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: We have, you know, a little bit of you know.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Drugs when necessary, lots of therapy that that works like yours, and then we get the treatment options.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Drugs also create neural, new neural pathways to build brand new bridges to get you from a to b okay, and which drugs are you talking about that?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Do that, because psilocybin m, MDMA oh no, the plant medicines, absolutely yes, yes.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: The pharmaceutical drugs, I don't think are known for that.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I think they calm down.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: So there are people and I'm not going to.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I don't go either way.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I am very client-focused, so for me, I don't happen to be on any medication.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I was diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder because I had some childhood trauma, adult trauma, adult trauma.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: You know, my situations are very complex and intertwined.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: So I got diagnosed about 12 years ago, I think it was, and what I've learned is what works for me may not work for you.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: So let's figure out what works for you.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm that therapist.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here, it's not.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: You need to do TRIP.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: No, if it doesn't work for you, that's okay.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: How do you recommend that you know individuals suffering, that you know, from mental illness, find that you know that balance between you know medication, therapy and treatment options that are out there.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Is it purely experimental?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Is it based on the types of trauma that they have?
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: You could make some recommendations and give them a head start.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: We're looking at some legislation now in Florida We've been approved.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: We're submitting it now where we're going to look at treatment options therapy.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: We're submitting it now where we're going to look at, you know, treatment options therapy, psychedelics, things that are not covered by insurance plans because veterans we can't let veterans just die anymore.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And we got it.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: We get these things.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: All of them have had thousands of veterans say, hey, this helped me with this.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Ayahuasca, ibogaine, psilocybin.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: You know your therapy models HBOT, photobiomodulation.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Why aren't these available?
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Tms, whatever works Right.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Why aren't these available to veterans?
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: And if there are there's multiplicity of modalities on the you know medication, treatment and you know psychedelic side, how do we help these veterans find that?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I will tell you that the VA has sent me a significant amount of veterans lately.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I got on their.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I think it's Community Care Network, right.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Veterans, lately I I got on their.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's community care network, right, something like that you sign up for and then, uh, the veteran will say I want to see dr royster, and they're like, oh, she's on our list.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: And then they fax me a form that says that they're approved and that way I can take tricare, because sometimes I automatically get it and other times I don't, but I take insurance.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And then, uh, if they do have a co-pay, I get that sponsored through a non-profit called project vet relief.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: No, it's a non-profit arm of the american legion and they help a lot of veterans with um funding and resources and connecting them to whatever their needs are.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: There's a place in tamp, tampa and she actually cleans houses and she's an Air Force veteran and she did so well in the private sector, as you know, with the civilian.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: She decided to pay it forward and she's creating a cleaning nonprofit organization that assists those with disabilities.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So veterans who can't clean their house because they're struggling, you know.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I mean a lot of us already have a rating.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is super sweet man.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: That's good for her.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And then I have another other nonprofit organizations.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: There's one called SOF missions.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: It's a four day clinic that does mild traumatic brain injury work and it has, you know, chiropractor, massage therapy.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: It has a lot of group work, physical activity, mental health.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: So I'm a provider for that as well, because I went through it, realized its benefits and decided to become a practitioner there.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: So I'm there sometimes.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: They have two female groups.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: They run in April and October and then the rest of the time they're male groups so they stick the same sex together, just in case someone is struggling with military sexual trauma, to kind of alleviate that aversion.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: You know we don't want anybody.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: We want everybody to feel welcome and accepted.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Uh, there's another one.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: He's out of webster, he's actually running for sheriff.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: His name is eric ryan anderson.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: He's running for sheriff in sumpter county.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: So he's a marine who was a police officer and then he was a volunteer fireman.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: But he owns a ranch and he's got like 10 or 12 horses and he'll take you out there and do mounted shooting, which is like a cool kid's way to blow off steam.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: But he's got a nonprofit that's sponsored by Project Vet Relief so he brings you out there for free.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: So I've heard of equine therapy.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: You're talking about shooting on the backs of horses, like shooting from a helicopter and those horses don't run around Shooting off the back of the horse, and all of the horses are trained dang any horse you pick.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the wife is a world champion.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I believe he is too.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: He was on that they put earplugs on those horses?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: yeah, no the horses are used to it.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: They don't even nod, they don't nudge they don't notice nothingudge.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: They don't nudge.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: They don't notice nothing.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: They just, they know the bam bam bam, because you're shooting balloons.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: It's not the balloons, it's the rounds going off without you know.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: That's loud man for a horse too.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: They know where they're going.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I guess man All right Well good for him.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: We need more Marine sheriffs around here.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: But okay, but back to the question.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Your approach to therapy obviously has been refined through your personal experiences.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, at what point should anybody consider talking to you?
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Because it sounds like you've stumbled onto something that is relevant, is innovative, it's not widely practiced and you got people being sent to you from the VA, so that's, you know, that's an indicator that you're you're pressing a button.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: So what do you?
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: You know your modalities, you know I mean you just like you said it was, it was mostly visual, right?
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Is that?
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Is that the?
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Is that the significant difference?
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Or?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: It's vision.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I use numbers.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: So if you find somebody who is extremely anxious and need to end distress now, this cost me about sixty thousand dollars to learn, but I'll share with you I know you share what you can't.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not looking for the secret sauce or your magic like when a kid is misbehaving, you say you know you better fix your attitude, or I'm going to come over there.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: One, two and they behave right.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: It's because you're shifting hemispheres of the brain.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: So what I've learned is complex numbers disconnect emotions.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, good, all right, well, I mean that's part of my protocol as well.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: And that's working for you, that's working for them.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: More importantly, wow, okay so it's a neurological disconnect.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: That's helped that you immediately feel relief, like as soon as you go through it.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Like you, most people take a big deep breath and they're just like it's gone.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: It's farther away.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: You know, I can still see it, but it's farther away doesn't bother me as much right and that's the idea we want to get rid of the visceral emotion.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: You know dr vanderkoek talks about the body keeping the score and it's basically you know.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: The information comes through your prefrontal cortex, because that's in the front right, typically runs through the neural pathways into the amyg's in the front right, typically Runs through the neural pathways into the amygdala.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: The amygdala checks whether or not it's safe and if it's something that's happened before.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Like you know, your brother took your toy away when you were eight years old.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So you were angry and it was unjust, right?
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: How dare they take it away?
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: And they let him take it.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Well, that continues to happen in our life and we have all these patterns.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: So when you get to the injustice of somebody cutting you off in traffic, you're losing your mind, right?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: So what does it look like if we take care of the little eight-year-old who felt injustice?
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: It alleviates everything else and it brings that number, that level 10, down to a one.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: So that is like the goal with the protocol.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're able to get them to find that eight year old, that moment in time which is tied to.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when you ask for it, they can pull it up pretty quickly and a lot of people with traumatic brain injuries don't understand that they've had things happen before in their life to trigger these reactions.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: So Dr Tutori had me work with an individual who lives up North and you know he was in a horrific accident.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: He should not have lived at all and now he's just thriving.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: That's amazing, he's still mad at some of his family members, but I, you know I mean, some things are legit.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you have a car accident and you're mad at your family, I mean that's, yeah, that's that's going back.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I mean I you know on on, I know that undergoing ayahuasca you're able to I was remembering things, and under ketamine I remembered memories, like fond memories of my son that I couldn't remember anymore.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: You know, just because of all the grief and stuff, you know.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: so if you're getting there without you know getting an IV in your arm or you know, because those ayahuasca that's work, man, that's not.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Anybody thinks that ayahuasca is a recreational drug.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: No, it's a lot.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: All I hear about ayahuasca is that, yeah, I went and vomited and I found my.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: You know I I went on a visual journey or something and I'm like, okay, what was the end result?
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: That's all I care about.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Like, what happened afterward?
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Did you get sleep?
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Because you haven't slept in six years?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Like what happened.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: But that's the focus that dr mccarthy has.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: She specializes in like sleep hygiene, so I'm constantly just revert, like regurgitating everything she's ever said to me about sleep.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: No, I mean it's so important, I mean so many people don't get it.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: It's a number.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I mean that's actually, I do believe, contributed to my son's decision to take his life.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: He wasn't sleeping.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Well, and if they ever did a study on it, uh, behavioral patterns of people who have a suicidal attempt or plan.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: The majority of the time is they haven't slept in the past 72 hours.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I would doubt it, I wouldn't doubt it.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: He was done, man, and I just, you know, I wouldn't even know what I would have done, if you know, if we would have found he was struggling because we had no idea.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Now, like we know now, because back then there was no information on, you know, rrhi and brain trauma, and you know we deal with so many families that have had their children arrested or because they act out.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: My son never acted out, he was just a good boy.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: He just ate it till he couldn't eat it no more and decided to leave me behind.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: So, um, you know, but you know I didn't have any, any cause, so that's what we're did he have any?
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, how old was he?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: 17.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Yep, the only thing we can look sorry.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the only thing we can look back and really identify as being mental illness was apathy and um, he just really didn't care about too much.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: But we had a blessed life, um, and you know he's 17, getting ready to join the army, and um, and then I just remember the day before his eyes are really red and I asked him doing drugs.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: He came up and I just don't think he slept and I think he was just done and, and even if we would have, I'm surrounded by him.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: This is his whole room.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Everything he had is all right here and you know if he would have talked to me or you know he just didn't he was done.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: You know he's been suffering with schizophrenia for two years, depression for three, and he left this video and then ran off.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: We posted it on Snapchat, took off on me, so, but that's why, you know, we became very involved with the psychology side of this, because you know that's just.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's this subconcussive trauma, its impact on the brain and mental illness is not trained in any institution of medical learning, it's not trained to nurses, doctors, and it's not trained to psychiatrists and psychologists either.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: So the first line of response for a parent when a kid's suffering and the number one indicator of a damaged brain is mental illness.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: And nobody, like you said, your intake forms the fact that you have this in there.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: You know nobody is educated to ask on that intake.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Hey, has Tommy played or Susie played?
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: We've had girls take their lives who like to practice hitting the soccer ball because everybody thinks that's innocent.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: But every time that ball hits that brain shakes.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: You know, stuff shifts, things get damaged and after years of doing it you've got a damaged brain and a damaged adult.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a quarter inch between the floating brain and the dura and I don't think people understand how really it uh, how little it takes to damage the brain.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: But we have two million megabytes of information that come in your brain every single day and if you're not sleeping for seven, you know 72 hours.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: That's six million megabytes of data just floating around, not not going anywhere.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Because when you sleep, the REM is super important because you process the information and you store it in the files where it belongs.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: But the deep sleep is super important because that's where you're healing right.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: You're healing your body, you're healing your brain, brain.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: You're kind of it's it kind of you know, at the end of the day, when you, when you shut down your computer and restart it, it's cleaning all those unnecessary files.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what you do when you're resting and you hit that deep and run sleep.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: So it's required and you can't do it with less than four hours a day trust me.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I try all the time.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I know I keep asking God for another 12 hours a day to get through all the stuff I've got going on right now.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's not happening.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just an angry old man with not enough time on his hands, right.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: So you asked me a question and I kind of want to follow.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Reach back, circle back.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: So cognitive behavioral therapy is pretty much a foundation of talk therapy and it basically disputes irrational beliefs.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Now, rationally motivated behavioral therapy goes a little higher.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Basically, they do what's called taking out the masturbations legit.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Dr ellis coined that phrase.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I did not come up with masturbations.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, even though I am a certified sex therapist, I didn't do it so masturbations are about must, should, ought, need all that finite language.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: You always, you never.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I do a lot of marriage counseling and I will tell you that that is the premise of most is the lack of communication or the incorrect communication, the different styles that people come at each other with.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: They don't learn how to speak to each other, so they can't resolve any issues.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: All they do is internalize everything that's coming at them as opposed to saying I feel angry when you don't take the trash out, so it's all about communication.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: I'm huge on that.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: So there is one that's that's not evidence-based and it's all about communication.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: I'm huge on that.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: So there is one that's not evidence-based and it's called Neurolinguistic Communication.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Right, Neuro, what is it?
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Nlp?
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: So Neurolinguistic Programming.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: But I don't really agree with the programming part.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: But I do like the language that they use in some of the trainings because it helps give that alternative perspective, Because someone who's coming at you is hyper-focused on what they know, the information they have.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: My job is to educate, give you a different perspective versus perception.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Just because your sister-in-law looks like she ate a fart does not mean she's upset with you.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, right, oh yeah, I'm a comic therapist.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I get called the comic counselor all the time because I think laughter is good for the soul and it establishes rapport so fast.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: But I call trip the orgasm.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like if you want the orgasm, if you're tired of foreplay, let me know.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Like, let's go, let's move the needle.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Let's get going, see, and that's why me and Joe are friends Can you tell, I can see this.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'd love to.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: We're going to be bringing this awareness because we do have to address this huge gap in education for the psychological psychiatric community and we need to get you know, more work between you know the therapy side and the treatment side.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: You know the drugs, the medications.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't necessarily Okay, but we have to get more work there.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: So so you know, as we come up to the end of the podcast, tell us a little bit more about how people find you.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: And then, what do you have going on?
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: What do you have?
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: like you know what kind of projects you're working on right now.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, so many.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: All right, give us top three.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: So I have been presenting.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Oddly enough, I presented at the University of Central Florida last week.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: They had a summer symposium, but the outline he's the clinical coordinator, the guy who is the lead professor for the counseling department, I guess is the best way to say it uh, dr bryce hagedorn.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: He, amazing, he's a marine vet and so he does summer symposiums and he educates these uh counselors on how to treat veterans and first responders, because their brains are different.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Us going to war for a country that we just graduated high school is a different kind of person.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am, you know.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: So, like the thought process is different, and that's one of the reasons I won't hire a individual.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Because after what happened with my ex-husband when he shot himself, they sent me a crisis counselor.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: This crisis counselor was one and inter.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: They sent me a crisis counselor.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: This crisis counselor was one and inter.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I was her second client ever and she was fresh out of her master's program.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: She was 26 years old and I said you shouldn't even be hearing what I have to say.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: What I experienced, let alone trying to treat me like this is not a good situation.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Me like this is not a good situation, and I throat punched, her and I almost got arrested, so I work for the police force now on your side.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: I totally would have been a homicidal lesbian.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: You know, it is what it is I'd only been gay for the stay, though, but that's not the point.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Not that there's anything wrong with that.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I don't care you fly your flag.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: I fly mine, you do yours you know I always tell people I said norm, normal is a setting on a dryer right, it is my drum beats way over there and out of tune you got boots if you're cool with that.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Come see me so how do people find you?
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I have a website.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: It's, uh, sempermodusllccom, I think of the htpp, whatever.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: So it's s-e-m-p-e-r-m-o-t-i-s-l-l-c.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: And it's at gmailcom for the email.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Uh, my phone number is 757-818-0499.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Leave a message, because if you're not in my phone you will go to voicemail.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: And I have a collective.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I have a Navy CB who is a licensed clinician.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I have Army retired Army, another Army MP, you know.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I have people who work for the police force, who focus on grief and loss.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I have one who works specifically with children.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: I have another lady who's married to an officer, a current officer, and you know just a collection of individuals who understand the purpose of serving, they understand trauma, they've had a lot, lot themselves and they've worked through their own healing journeys, which is, I think, is amazing.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: But I don't hire anybody under 30.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Let me just put like you have to have some life before you come in I would never ask you know like I?
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I was exposed to a very difficult situation and I just would not do that to anybody else.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going to treat you the way I want to be treated.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: You know, that's a good comment too, because we talk about children, athletes and military a lot in the show, but we cannot forget our first responders, the people that pick up.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: You know, pick up the parts and you know, and, and, uh, oh, can you hear me now?
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, but we tend to forget our first responders, you know, those that pick up the parts, the body parts that clean up the mess, that are responding and suffer that so much other types of trauma that you know obviously that end up in your good hands.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: So, dr Royster, I can't help you.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for coming on the show.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: This has been amazing.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I'm so honored to meet you guys and the work you're doing, I would love to join your mission.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Let me know what you do.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: You're part of the family now, man, you'll be on the email list, right?
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: We'll keep you posted.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: We do a lot of great stuff.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: We are producing an app now, a concussion awareness app for parents.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: It's a free app, it'll be out and then, for this area, you know, we'll be listing all the concussion specialists and people that know how to deal with concussion related trauma, how to ask this right, these right questions, the fact that you were asking I don't know if you ever heard of traumatic encephalopathy syndrome, but there's only four questions you have to ask to determine the high probability of a brain injury.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: And then now you have a point of causality which causes parents and veterans and military guys to have a reason to act.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Right, I can fix this.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: I can fix this with therapy and treatment and maybe a little bit of medication or whatever, if I have to have it.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: But what you're doing is an amazing job.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: An amazing job, well, it's always to be medication free, even if you're doing is amazing job.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: An amazing job to be medication free, even if you're on medication initially.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: That's fine do what you need, to move the needle and keep you from choosing between a bullet and a bottle, like if you need a fixer for your anxiety because you're terrified all the time, it's okay.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: But now, now that're on medication, now that you're not feeling those ruminating thoughts, those uh you know tornadoes of emotions in in, you can actually function, then come talk to us and we will work with you, because I don't know anybody that goes.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I love my meds.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: No, I've met one yet either myself.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Right and we're not designed to be on medication for the rest of our lives.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: It's like that's okay for now.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: It's fine for now.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Do what you need to do for now.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: When my best friend took her own life, she was on her medication.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: She still made that decision, and then I had to deal with survivor's guilt for 25 years because I thought if I came home from the restaurant earlier I would have intervened.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: And then what?
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: I was active duty, I had to go to work, so it would not have mattered.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: She had made her decision, and sometimes I think we don't give ourselves that grace or that space to realize that it's not on us.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Sometimes no, ma'am, we are harder on ourselves than anybody else and we do need to learn to love and like ourselves.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: And you're right, just give ourselves a break, man.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: We don't do it.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: So right now I'm working on, like I said, I'm furthering my education.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I'm getting another doctorate in traumatology specifically, kind of honing in on some of the.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: I'm tweaking my protocols and doing different things, but also I do a lot of presentations at critical incident stress management trainings.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: I train on serious mental health, what to look for, how to respond.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: You know, I played college volleyball so you know they don't have helmets.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what you miss a bump you hit your noggin, that ball.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: That ball moves too, man.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: You get creamed and you get smacked in the head with that ball.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: It's, there's no joke, right I?
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: went to a small high school.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: I played middle linebacker.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: I played you know just all different things, so I can't imagine how many concussions I've had in my lifetime.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: You know, I can't I rode a three-wheeler.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I drove a three-wheeler.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I'm from michigan, so we drag raced like we did hard stuff.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: So I can't.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: I would be a little concerned if I had an MRI in my head.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I'd be like whoa, what happened there you know, so I get it.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Well, you are now part of the family.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: We thank you for coming on the show.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: We're going to thank Marissa for actually inviting you.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: We will have the conference.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: We'll keep you posted on that.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Any new work, any papers you write, anything you have that's helping, that can help veterans, parents, children, athletes, please send it away and we'll get it out.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: On what I've learned in, you know, the 15 years I've been doing mental health stuff.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Is that people beat the snot?
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: out of themselves.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: And you know, my thing is is I dig that down with each client, but at the same time, why does it need to be there?
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Because we're afraid to be a narcissist.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: That's like being resilient.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Those two words are just buzzwords to me.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, do you have that diagnosis?
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: One, two, you came to therapy.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: So are you truly a narcissist?
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: This I need to know.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: If you're trying to help yourself, you know yeah, they don't normally do that.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: nor do they, you know, take uh.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: They don't normally do that, nor did they, you know, take uh any accountability for their behaviors.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: So if you're sitting there going I was in the wrong, I screwed up You're less likely to have personality disorder than someone else.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Doesn't mean you don't have tendencies of narcissism, but it doesn't mean you have a personality disorder either.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Well, you let us know when that book comes out and we will go ahead and blast that all over the place.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: So we're doing a lot on moral injury in talking about that, and that's basically the dichotomy between your core beliefs and values in which you're ordered to do, sometimes in the military, sometimes in policing, sometimes by your parents.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Right, you don't believe that this is something you should do.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: However, the abuse wheel continues, right, so it's building that foundation back up, bringing it down and building it back up, you know, just like the military does.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, they take you to basic training.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I was in the air force, so I don't know if that that was kind of a country club there.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: That's not military.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: I went to war with the air force was the best.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Best out of four different combat zones was the best one best time I ever had.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: I mean it was great yeah, we do have amazing food too.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: We always had to take money and beer your food yeah, that's right, that's true, and beer.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Well folks, dr joyce rusher, dr um janelle reister dr jay.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: I love dr jay.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I cannot thank you enough for your time on the show today.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: We're definitely going to have you back on.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Please stay in touch and let us know when that book comes out thank you will thank you for everything.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Anything you need, let me know.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: If you want me to connect with somebody, I'm happy to I'm just honored to be here no, you know, joe detour, that's good enough for me, man.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: He's a good dude.