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I Choose … to Bridge the Bedroom Gap with Dr. Maria Sophocles · I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

0:01
Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi, everyone,
0:09
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
0:12
Speaker 1: the choices we make, even as especially as our bodies
0:17
Speaker 1: change and realign as we age. Today we're talking about
0:22
Speaker 1: midlife and menopause, but not the stuff you already know about,
0:26
Speaker 1: not the stuff we've already talked about, hot flashes and
0:29
Speaker 1: mood swings, but a lot of the stuff we don't
0:32
Speaker 1: talk about, like desire and pleasure, things that make us
0:37
Speaker 1: quietly wonder is something wrong with me? Am I broken?
0:42
Speaker 1: My guest today is doctor Maria Sophocles, a gynecologist and
0:46
Speaker 1: sexual medicine specialist who is on a mission to close
0:50
Speaker 1: what he calls the bedroom gap, or the difference in
0:54
Speaker 1: sexual expectations and capabilities of men and women in mid life.
1:01
Speaker 1: Will you get a little uncomfortable perhaps? Will you have
1:05
Speaker 1: a new way of thinking about your body? Yes, you will.
1:08
Speaker 1: Will you be confident that you are not broken? Absolutely?
1:14
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to welcome doctor Maria Sophocles. Hello, Hello there.
1:20
Speaker 1: First of all, I love the story of you meeting
1:23
Speaker 1: Gloria Sinum in a coat closets I know, and how
1:27
Speaker 1: did that explain to everyone how that encounter made it
1:30
Speaker 1: impossible not to write this book.
1:32
Speaker 2: Sure, so I guess it was a book that needed
1:38
Speaker 2: to be written because I had been in Obiqun for
1:42
Speaker 2: over twenty years and I was watching women age and
1:45
Speaker 2: go into midlife and start having menopause issues and sexual issues,
1:50
Speaker 2: and I kept trying to help them one on one,
1:53
Speaker 2: and I just started thinking, I do have to scale this.
1:56
Speaker 2: I need to get help out in a bigger, broader way.
2:00
Speaker 2: And so I thought I'll write a book and then
2:03
Speaker 2: maybe do a Ted talk. And I had written some
2:06
Speaker 2: of the book and just shoved it on a shelf.
2:08
Speaker 2: And then when I saw Gloria Steinem, Hillary Clinton, and
2:13
Speaker 2: Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the same night, and it was
2:15
Speaker 2: like this, like sunlight was like streaming onto me, going,
2:19
Speaker 2: you better channel your inner like feminist goddess. But oh,
2:24
Speaker 2: I have four kids and I'm busy, and I have
2:26
Speaker 2: this huge practice and I don't think I have time
2:28
Speaker 2: for anything. And then she was just so fiery and adamant.
2:32
Speaker 2: She didn't really ask me, she demanded it, and I thought,
2:36
Speaker 2: this is a you know. We bumped into each other
2:38
Speaker 2: to coke closet and she wanted to know who I
2:40
Speaker 2: was and what my deal was, and I told her
2:42
Speaker 2: I was an obgi n, but that I really felt
2:45
Speaker 2: like there was this need for information for midlife women,
2:50
Speaker 2: and especially around sex and the whole influence of the
2:53
Speaker 2: patriarchy and porn and pharma and politics and all this
2:57
Speaker 2: shit just putting into our brain making us feel bad
3:01
Speaker 2: for not being Instagram perfect. And she just looked at
3:04
Speaker 2: me and like leveled a finger at me and was like,
3:07
Speaker 2: you better write that damn book. And I've never had anyone, really,
3:11
Speaker 2: I'm a doctor. I'm used to being like people are
3:14
Speaker 2: respectful and everyone. She was like, you write it right now.
3:17
Speaker 2: And I realized she was saying it as part of
3:19
Speaker 2: the sort of continuum of feminism, saying we do not
3:24
Speaker 2: have time to take our foot off the gas pedal.
3:26
Speaker 2: We do not have time for any of this bullshit.
3:29
Speaker 2: And until people start learning to care about themselves as women,
3:35
Speaker 2: to value themselves as patients, as mothers, as sisters, as partners,
3:41
Speaker 2: and to think about sex as something other than a
3:44
Speaker 2: way to serve men, how are we going to ever
3:46
Speaker 2: move forward? And the way she put it was so
3:50
Speaker 2: sort of adamant, And you know, I said, good night,
3:54
Speaker 2: and I thanked her, and I just thought, you know what,
3:56
Speaker 2: I've got to write this down and hopefully someone will
3:59
Speaker 2: buy this book and read it. But in the meantime,
4:01
Speaker 2: I was asked to do a Ted Talk, so that
4:03
Speaker 2: was a way to at least get over a million
4:06
Speaker 2: people to start hearing what I felt was important. And
4:10
Speaker 2: the family the people at TED were Adaman two. They said,
4:14
Speaker 2: we get doctors all the time wanted to teach us
4:16
Speaker 2: about heart disease and kidney disease. But they said, this
4:19
Speaker 2: message is universal. You know, if there's a billion midlife
4:23
Speaker 2: women on the planet and maybe seventy percent of them
4:26
Speaker 2: are suffering silently with sexual issues, that's seven hundred million
4:30
Speaker 2: women that could hear this TED Talk.
4:32
Speaker 1: That need to hear it.
4:33
Speaker 2: Say yeah, that could be me, and I'm too ashamed
4:35
Speaker 2: to say anything. So I think when I did the
4:38
Speaker 2: Ted Talk is when I really said, shoot, I better
4:41
Speaker 2: finish that book, you know. So then I just just
4:44
Speaker 2: dug in in Princeton. There's a beautiful library, Jenny, and
4:47
Speaker 2: I just dug in for a year and just went
4:50
Speaker 2: there and wrote it. And you have it. I'm so
4:52
Speaker 2: happy you have the book.
4:53
Speaker 1: Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I've got to go back
4:56
Speaker 1: because there's so many things I need to listen to
4:59
Speaker 1: relearn and honestly just based on my upbringing and where
5:03
Speaker 1: I am in my life. But explain to us to start,
5:06
Speaker 1: what is the bedroom gap.
5:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a term that I coin to encapsulate the
5:14
Speaker 2: difference in expectations and abilities between partners in a bedroom,
5:18
Speaker 2: mostly between men and women, but it could be between
5:21
Speaker 2: same sex couples. And it has to do with the
5:24
Speaker 2: fact that there are so many forces that play on
5:28
Speaker 2: how we as women show up in a bedroom. Whether
5:32
Speaker 2: it's Catholic school. Nothing against Catholic school, but whether it's
5:35
Speaker 2: the lessons you learn in Sunday school or at home,
5:38
Speaker 2: or in your sex ed class in eighth grade where
5:41
Speaker 2: they basically just say, don't ever have sex. You know
5:43
Speaker 2: you'll get pregnant or you'll get STDs, where it's all
5:46
Speaker 2: fear based and they urge you to really not have sex.
5:50
Speaker 2: And that just doesn't work for teens. So we kind
5:53
Speaker 2: of start our sexual career like confused, like what should
5:57
Speaker 2: we be? And then the difference between how men women
6:00
Speaker 2: are thought of as sexual beings, how men are considered
6:04
Speaker 2: it's okay, to masturbate from cradle to grave. It's okay
6:07
Speaker 2: to be sexual. It's really cool to be an alpha
6:09
Speaker 2: man and judge yourself by your sexual conquest. But women
6:13
Speaker 2: are just supposed to know how to be good in bed,
6:15
Speaker 2: but really supposed to be chased somehow. And all the
6:18
Speaker 2: mixed messages in Hollywood, which I'm sure you were exposed
6:22
Speaker 2: to at a young age of who am I supposed
6:25
Speaker 2: to be?
6:25
Speaker 1: Me?
6:26
Speaker 2: Someone popular, someone slutty, someone chased? Right, look at all
6:30
Speaker 2: those crazy messages. And I remember Brick Shields telling me
6:34
Speaker 2: she was sixteen and she walked in to do a
6:37
Speaker 2: photo shoot and the photographer just said, oh my god,
6:39
Speaker 2: your thighs are just so heavy. What am I going
6:41
Speaker 2: to do with that? And as a sixteen year old,
6:44
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, now you're already imperfect. And she was
6:48
Speaker 2: pretty darn not imperfect, you know, right, and right, brock Shields,
6:52
Speaker 2: Brookshields is already freaking out. You know, what chance do
6:56
Speaker 2: I have? Right? And so the bedroom gap explains how
6:59
Speaker 2: women come into a bedroom either worried about their mole
7:03
Speaker 2: or their fat or their rash, or they don't look
7:05
Speaker 2: great in their neglige or whatever. They worry that they're
7:08
Speaker 2: supposed to have an orgasm every time that they're supposed
7:12
Speaker 2: to orgasm from penis and vagina sex. So I wanted
7:15
Speaker 2: to call bullshit on some of that and say, you know,
7:17
Speaker 2: only about twenty percent of women actually orgasm from penis
7:21
Speaker 2: and vagina sex routinely. Most of us need literal stimulation,
7:26
Speaker 2: and could we please undo some of the crazy myths
7:29
Speaker 2: and images that Hollywood and porn absolutely necessary and so
7:35
Speaker 2: making us all feel lucky. And then when we get
7:37
Speaker 2: to midlife and we're menopausal, we don't have the estrogen
7:41
Speaker 2: down there that we used to guess what that can
7:44
Speaker 2: really make for changes both in our brain and libido
7:48
Speaker 2: and in sexual pleasure, in orgasm, And so I just
7:52
Speaker 2: felt like women don't hear that in a doctor's office,
7:56
Speaker 2: And I was almost embarrassed for my own profession, like
7:59
Speaker 2: we don't train doctors to talk about sex, even obgn's
8:03
Speaker 2: no training.
8:04
Speaker 1: Now true, I read that in your book you said
8:07
Speaker 1: that you were a part of the Menopause and Sexual
8:09
Speaker 1: Health Uninformed Clinical clips. Yeah, eight years of training to
8:13
Speaker 1: become an OBGYN and never learned anything about menopause or
8:18
Speaker 1: sexual dysfunction.
8:19
Speaker 2: I trained at a super world famous place, and I
8:22
Speaker 2: came out of there thinking I am a great surgeon.
8:25
Speaker 2: I'm great at delivering babies. And I didn't realize how
8:28
Speaker 2: clueless I was until my patients would come in saying
8:32
Speaker 2: I have palpitations, i have neuropathy, I'm losing my hair,
8:36
Speaker 2: I'm getting teary all the time. And I was like,
8:39
Speaker 2: I guess she needs a neurologist, a psychiatrist, a cardiologist.
8:43
Speaker 2: That's how bad a job I was doing. But it
8:46
Speaker 2: turns out I just needed to learn menopause. And one
8:49
Speaker 2: of my missions is that we really revamp medical schools
8:52
Speaker 2: so that all clinicians can look at a woman with
8:55
Speaker 2: palpitations and say, hey, you're fifty three, are you on estrogen?
8:59
Speaker 2: Because it could be it's maybe not anxiety, You're maybe
9:02
Speaker 2: not just a hysterical woman.
9:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it seems crazy. It seems we get
9:07
Speaker 1: dismissed a lot that opqians weren't taught about this.
9:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you're obiguian isn't know, you can be
9:14
Speaker 2: sure your cardiologist doesn't know, and your endogrenologist doesn't know.
9:18
Speaker 2: And so women are turning to the internet and influencers,
9:21
Speaker 2: and some of that is okay. Because they're learning, but
9:25
Speaker 2: some of it. Of course, there's snake oil out there,
9:28
Speaker 2: you know, by this supplement and everything will be cured.
9:31
Speaker 2: So I do think too. Remember we still have a
9:33
Speaker 2: fear of estrogen from this twenty three year old bad study.
9:37
Speaker 2: We have to unhook that too and help women understand
9:40
Speaker 2: that most all of us are candidates after menopause to
9:45
Speaker 2: take estrogen to preserve our bone, our heart, our brain,
9:49
Speaker 2: and to use local vaginal estrogen, which literally every woman
9:54
Speaker 2: on the planet is a candidate for. There is no
9:56
Speaker 2: one that it's contraindicated for, and that there's zero risk
10:00
Speaker 2: of cancer with that. This is typical topical. It goes
10:03
Speaker 2: in the vagina, although some people, even someone on this podcast,
10:08
Speaker 2: puts it on her face because we do have.
10:11
Speaker 1: Two people on this party too.
10:15
Speaker 2: Because we know there are receptors in our skin and
10:18
Speaker 2: just nobody wants more wrinkles than they have to. Yeah,
10:21
Speaker 2: vaginal estrogen. I think the government should mail it to
10:24
Speaker 2: all women when they turn forty eight, for like twenty
10:27
Speaker 2: straight years, free of charge.
10:29
Speaker 1: I love your ambition there, but yeah, I don't see
10:32
Speaker 1: that happening.
10:32
Speaker 2: I know I'm not holding my breath and I'm out
10:34
Speaker 2: running and I would never get elected on that platform.
10:37
Speaker 2: But in some fantasy world it's so darn save and
10:41
Speaker 2: guess what it even prevents UTIs as we get older,
10:44
Speaker 2: so there's real health benefits. It's not just a sex thing.
10:48
Speaker 2: It's really I really.
10:50
Speaker 1: Just talk for a second about how historically women's pleasure
10:55
Speaker 1: has been framed as a secondary need want.
10:58
Speaker 2: For sure, for sure, historically literally going back four thousand years.
11:03
Speaker 2: In the book, we look at how you know, women
11:05
Speaker 2: were property, so as property, of course their pleasure was
11:09
Speaker 2: totally irrelevant, and that lasted for almost all of recorded history.
11:14
Speaker 2: I would say we had a little blip of interest
11:17
Speaker 2: in maybe the sixties when we got the birth control
11:20
Speaker 2: pill and we were liberated. But even today, Jenny, my
11:25
Speaker 2: practice has women from all over the world, and I
11:28
Speaker 2: mean their celebrities and CEOs and PhDs and olympians like
11:33
Speaker 2: I have some pretty amazing, badass women as patients, and
11:37
Speaker 2: yet in the exam room they confess to me, Oh,
11:41
Speaker 2: my pleasure isn't what I'm here for. I want him
11:45
Speaker 2: to be able to have sex, so you just have
11:46
Speaker 2: to help me have libido so I can get my
11:49
Speaker 2: mojo up, so his needs are met and I'm like,
11:52
Speaker 2: wait a minute, You're running a billion dollar empire and
11:57
Speaker 2: you have ten thousand employees, and yet in the bedroom,
12:01
Speaker 2: you're like, it's not about me. And I just would
12:04
Speaker 2: love women to say, what if sex could be about
12:07
Speaker 2: mutual pleasure because your partner wants that too. Really, So
12:11
Speaker 2: more women are starting to understand that vibrator sales are up,
12:17
Speaker 2: but partly that's because women are designing vibrators now that
12:21
Speaker 2: aren't just little plastic rubber penises. You know, they look
12:25
Speaker 2: they look like something you could keep in your shower
12:27
Speaker 2: and no one would know what it was. And so
12:29
Speaker 2: I think we're having a little bit of a revolution
12:31
Speaker 2: now where it's coming out of the closet. I think
12:34
Speaker 2: other countries do it better. You know, in Holland they
12:37
Speaker 2: teach sex ed as something for mutual pleasure. So even
12:41
Speaker 2: Dutch teens when they first have sex, use more contraception,
12:46
Speaker 2: wait longer, and focus on pleasure for both. Like that's
12:51
Speaker 2: so easy.
12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's just education. I know, it's knowledge.
12:56
Speaker 2: So that's also in the book. My other small little
12:59
Speaker 2: wish is to revamped sex said, you know, so that
13:02
Speaker 2: teens don't get taught don't have sex or you'll get
13:05
Speaker 2: pregnant or die.
13:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, those statistics in your book were bananas about how
13:10
Speaker 1: many states you know, teach certain things, and it's.
13:14
Speaker 2: All different abstinence, religion based, learn it at home. It
13:18
Speaker 2: sounds lovely, but in general those are states with the
13:21
Speaker 2: highest teen pregnancy rates and the unwanted pregnancy rates. So
13:25
Speaker 2: we're not doing anybody as service by that, And I
13:28
Speaker 2: think it's not Teaching about sexual pleasure is not going
13:32
Speaker 2: to make teens run out and have unprotected sex. Teaching
13:36
Speaker 2: teens about pleasure makes them good, responsible adults for the
13:40
Speaker 2: next seventy years of their life, and that gives them
13:44
Speaker 2: better relationships so that when they have a rectile dysfunction
13:48
Speaker 2: or vaginal dryness, they know how to talk about it.
13:50
Speaker 2: They say, Hey, let's work on a different script, let's
13:53
Speaker 2: reinvent this.
13:54
Speaker 1: So true because the script that I was, that I
13:58
Speaker 1: was given and read and leaved and so much goes
14:01
Speaker 1: to the point that you speak about in your book.
14:03
Speaker 1: You say, speaking your mind, speaking up for your needs,
14:06
Speaker 1: speaking out for your rights. Heck, speaking at all was
14:09
Speaker 1: not modeled either in Disney animation or mainstream live action Hollywood.
14:14
Speaker 1: And you nailed it. Because my first learnings about love
14:18
Speaker 1: and desire and what makes me desirable were shaped solely
14:23
Speaker 1: from Cinderella and snow White's kiss, all of those things
14:28
Speaker 1: that are complete bs. I thought, okay, well then I'll
14:33
Speaker 1: just wait here for the prince to come and make
14:36
Speaker 1: everything okay.
14:37
Speaker 2: And it impacts how we are as young women. And
14:40
Speaker 2: it's why when you look at orgasms with hookup culture,
14:44
Speaker 2: there's a huge orgasm gap. Men orgasm much more than
14:48
Speaker 2: women in their twenties and thirties because the women are
14:50
Speaker 2: still trying to please. And you say, cool, he got
14:53
Speaker 2: with me. I'm so psyched, you know, I'm so lucky
14:56
Speaker 2: to have gotten with him. And it's only I think
14:58
Speaker 2: in our forties and fift she's that we sort of
15:00
Speaker 2: take a breath and go, wait a minute, couldn't there
15:03
Speaker 2: be something for me? Is there's something for me out there?
15:06
Speaker 2: And you know, so women's corn of split in two groups.
15:09
Speaker 2: The oh god, forget it, it's too late, there's nothing
15:12
Speaker 2: for me and now I'm getting older, or the no,
15:14
Speaker 2: I think, I think I'd like to see what's out there,
15:17
Speaker 2: and whether that's internet dating because they're divorced or single
15:21
Speaker 2: or widowed, or it's just learning about their bodies. You know,
15:24
Speaker 2: it's never too late, never too late to do that.
15:33
Speaker 1: My teenage daughter, who I you know, watched as she
15:37
Speaker 1: went through high school. The things that she would tell
15:39
Speaker 1: me and the things that she thought were true blew
15:43
Speaker 1: my mind. And just the whole, the whole narrative behind
15:47
Speaker 1: what you just said a minute ago, about you know,
15:50
Speaker 1: hooking up or giving him what he wants so that
15:52
Speaker 1: you'll be something that's desirable or you know, talked about positively.
15:58
Speaker 1: It's so upsetting, I know.
16:01
Speaker 2: And yet you need almost the maturity of time to
16:04
Speaker 2: look backwards and go, you are better than him. You
16:07
Speaker 2: do not need to feel it's an honor that you
16:11
Speaker 2: had sex with him or got with him. It's like
16:14
Speaker 2: he got pleasure and he didn't even care about you,
16:16
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah.
16:16
Speaker 1: I mean I try to tell my girls it's the opposite,
16:19
Speaker 1: like you know, because just to try to counterbalance it.
16:22
Speaker 1: But I don't think it works until the person is
16:26
Speaker 1: ready to understand it in a different way. How do
16:29
Speaker 1: we break this messaging from our brains? Though?
16:32
Speaker 2: I think it's about valuing ourselves younger, and it's about
16:36
Speaker 2: I think revamping sex d so that it's not fear
16:40
Speaker 2: based it's pleasure based. I mean, you can always teach
16:43
Speaker 2: about disease and pregnancy, that's smart, but that each gender,
16:48
Speaker 2: whatever gender you identify as, it's irrelevant, you know, and
16:52
Speaker 2: whether you're straight, gay, trans, that pleasure is something you
16:56
Speaker 2: should be aware of for yourself. How do you give
17:00
Speaker 2: it to yourself? How do you experience it on yourself
17:03
Speaker 2: or from others? And to be comfortable talking about it.
17:07
Speaker 2: I had a gay friend who said to me, said,
17:10
Speaker 2: you know, the gay community does this way better than
17:12
Speaker 2: the straight community. We ask each other very openly, like
17:16
Speaker 2: what do you like? And straight people don't do that.
17:19
Speaker 2: They sort of assume each other already knows and sort
17:23
Speaker 2: of come together and do it.
17:24
Speaker 1: They play their roles.
17:25
Speaker 2: The play their roles, and I think those roles really
17:28
Speaker 2: fail us when we get older. When you know, I'll
17:31
Speaker 2: share a story of an eighty two year old patient
17:34
Speaker 2: of mine. She's been my patient almost twenty years. I
17:37
Speaker 2: thought I knew her really well, but it turned out
17:39
Speaker 2: she was keeping a secret from me. And she came
17:42
Speaker 2: in the other day and said, I want you to
17:44
Speaker 2: know that I've been married for sixty two years. And
17:47
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I know you have. She said, I've
17:49
Speaker 2: never experienced sexual pleasure ever, and my husband has no
17:53
Speaker 2: idea how to please me. And I know I want
17:57
Speaker 2: it before I die, and I want to have it
17:59
Speaker 2: before I Can you teach me how to get And
18:03
Speaker 2: she said, I see all your toys, because I have
18:05
Speaker 2: beautiful cabinets of sex toys in my office that I use.
18:08
Speaker 2: And of course I was guilty of having never even
18:11
Speaker 2: asked her about it, which was my own bad. And
18:14
Speaker 2: we shopped. We went shopping and we found something for
18:17
Speaker 2: her and she came, I didn't. I said, I'll see
18:20
Speaker 2: you in a few months. She came in like three
18:22
Speaker 2: weeks later. She said, I have some news for you.
18:24
Speaker 2: She said, I love the toy. I had an orgasm.
18:27
Speaker 2: I know, I know. I just wanted you to know.
18:30
Speaker 2: And she said, I'm never going to tell my husband
18:32
Speaker 2: what I'm about to tell you. But I've had a
18:34
Speaker 2: really close male friend my whole life and he's widowed.
18:38
Speaker 2: And I went over to his home and we had
18:40
Speaker 2: the most wonderful intimate relationship and he was so caring
18:44
Speaker 2: and loving, and I experienced sexual pleasure from a man
18:47
Speaker 2: for the first time, Like I almost cried in front
18:50
Speaker 2: of her. Jinny, Yeah, and I stay married. My husband
18:54
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with that, but I didn't want
18:56
Speaker 2: to die without experiencing that, and I just thought, good
18:58
Speaker 2: for her.
18:59
Speaker 1: I mean, it's never too late. Poster child right there.
19:03
Speaker 2: She is my poster child. So when women come in
19:05
Speaker 2: and they're like, I don't know, I guess I just
19:08
Speaker 2: give up. It's like, why why you know? We have
19:11
Speaker 2: FDA approved medications for low libido? Right. But to be honest,
19:15
Speaker 2: the best thing you can do if you don't have
19:17
Speaker 2: desire is, first of all, look make sure you're healthy.
19:20
Speaker 2: Make sure you don't have a thyroid issue or something
19:22
Speaker 2: like that, or depression, and your doctor can help you
19:25
Speaker 2: with that. And then look at your relationship. Are there
19:28
Speaker 2: things that are keeping you from desiring that person and
19:31
Speaker 2: affair someone's mother moving in, you know, money problems, loss
19:36
Speaker 2: of job, all kinds of things, stressors. If those aren't
19:40
Speaker 2: the case, then I would say, you know, make sure
19:42
Speaker 2: you're healthy down there. And then also communicate. The book
19:46
Speaker 2: helps you try to figure out how to have that
19:49
Speaker 2: first awkward talk.
19:50
Speaker 1: Yes, you say, something that I love so much about
19:53
Speaker 1: communication is lubrication.
19:56
Speaker 2: That's right, it's a version. Right. If you can just
19:59
Speaker 2: begin to talk about sex as easily as we talk
20:02
Speaker 2: about paying bills or a calculus grade, or how much
20:06
Speaker 2: your sister bothers me, or you know, the million things
20:09
Speaker 2: we talk about in a long term relationship, and yet
20:12
Speaker 2: we don't talk about sex as something. Look, we talk
20:15
Speaker 2: about taxes, right, How boring is that? Yeah? No, thanks right,
20:19
Speaker 2: Well I don't, but my thank god my husband talked
20:22
Speaker 2: to himself about them. But what if every quarter we
20:27
Speaker 2: had a date that included a little check in, just
20:31
Speaker 2: like and in a positive way, not a judgmental way.
20:33
Speaker 2: Like Jenny, I loved it that when we went away
20:37
Speaker 2: to the mountains a month ago, we did a long
20:40
Speaker 2: walk and then had a hot tub and then you
20:42
Speaker 2: gave me a massage. I know you think that was
20:44
Speaker 2: no big deal. I absolutely loved it. That gives you
20:48
Speaker 2: positive feelings about what you did, and you know that
20:52
Speaker 2: made me feel really good. And eventually you even say
20:55
Speaker 2: things like, you know, I actually get really turned on
20:57
Speaker 2: when you do the dishes or whatever.
21:01
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's actually true.
21:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know about a million women have told me
21:05
Speaker 2: that that's not my line. I have a really cute
21:09
Speaker 2: cartoon to send you of a man holding like all
21:11
Speaker 2: kinds of cleaning supplies and the woman's in bed, and
21:14
Speaker 2: he goes, don't any of your fantasies have to do
21:16
Speaker 2: with anything other than me cleaning? So, you know, but
21:21
Speaker 2: the more we say it out loud, the more that
21:23
Speaker 2: person gets positive feedback and says, I'm going to give
21:26
Speaker 2: Jenny another massage. Actually, I'm going to give her a
21:28
Speaker 2: gift certificate for her massage. Actually I'm going to give
21:31
Speaker 2: her a massage and take her away for the weekend.
21:33
Speaker 2: You know. It's all positive.
21:34
Speaker 1: Feedback, positive reinforcing.
21:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and novelty is good too, Jenny. That's another thing
21:39
Speaker 2: that people forget. They've been married for so long. They
21:43
Speaker 2: get into this routine, and as delicious as cheerios are,
21:46
Speaker 2: it's really good to get some new cereal in your
21:49
Speaker 2: cupboard sometimes I mean not sexually, that it's okay to
21:54
Speaker 2: change things up. Your partner will be kind of jazzed.
21:56
Speaker 2: Mostly they'll be like, whoa, what are you watching?
22:00
Speaker 1: What's going on?
22:00
Speaker 2: And you can be like, oh, I wish I could
22:02
Speaker 2: tell you, but just know that it's good. You know. Anyway,
22:05
Speaker 2: I think novelty the brain loves that dopamine hit of novelty,
22:10
Speaker 2: and none of us need any more dopamine. Hits from
22:13
Speaker 2: social media, so try to get some in the bedroom
22:16
Speaker 2: and or even put that on your quarterly check in,
22:19
Speaker 2: like what, like, do you have any fantasies? Because I
22:22
Speaker 2: know you told me about that woman the cheerleader ten
22:24
Speaker 2: years ago, but you know, I'm a little like, I'm
22:26
Speaker 2: not sure that's dubbing it for me? Is there anything else?
22:29
Speaker 2: You know, Like it's okay to be a little don't
22:32
Speaker 2: have to do everything, but it's kind of nice to
22:35
Speaker 2: let your partner feel not ashamed to share that kind
22:38
Speaker 2: of stuff.
22:38
Speaker 1: It's important, it's really important.
22:41
Speaker 2: And men are afraid of being judged. They are worried
22:43
Speaker 2: about being judged or.
22:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a reaction that could be unpleasant.
22:49
Speaker 2: They're very afraid of being told they're not good in
22:51
Speaker 2: the bedroom, so you have to couch. You never want
22:54
Speaker 2: to point a finger and be like you're not good
22:57
Speaker 2: at this. You always want to frame it as I
22:59
Speaker 2: really love it when and I almost wish we could
23:02
Speaker 2: do more of that, or even a little differently, like
23:05
Speaker 2: you have to make it into a soft compliment that
23:07
Speaker 2: also implies I'd love to build on that, right, because
23:12
Speaker 2: they're terrified that you're gonna be outing them as mediocre.
23:16
Speaker 2: Or something, you know.
23:18
Speaker 1: Right, God forbid?
23:20
Speaker 2: I know.
23:22
Speaker 1: Well, let's get into it, because it's said that sex, desire,
23:26
Speaker 1: and pleasure are missing in the menopause conversation until right now.
23:31
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the orgasm and desire gap. Desire
23:35
Speaker 1: doesn't disappear, it changes. What does that mean?
23:40
Speaker 2: Well, look, for some people, they come in and say zero,
23:44
Speaker 2: They use the word zero, they say I have zero desire.
23:47
Speaker 1: I want it.
23:48
Speaker 2: I would just as soon watch the Late Show scroll
23:51
Speaker 2: through photos. I'd rather watch puppy videos like it's that bad,
23:55
Speaker 2: right yea? And I hear that all day long. So
23:57
Speaker 2: I don't want you to think it doesn't. It sort
24:00
Speaker 2: of does disappear. But I think it's that we change
24:04
Speaker 2: and we well, our lives get frankly more complex. We
24:09
Speaker 2: are this Sandwich generation. Sometimes older parents are an issue.
24:14
Speaker 2: Jobs become we're at the peak of our career, so
24:17
Speaker 2: they become a bigger issue. Kids as they get older,
24:20
Speaker 2: as you know, just have different problems, not smaller problems.
24:24
Speaker 2: Rect politics, current events. Man, I'm not even going there,
24:27
Speaker 2: because you know, that's that's its own loss of desire,
24:31
Speaker 2: like desire to engage with the news. And I think
24:34
Speaker 2: that we become almost partners in life rather than sexual
24:40
Speaker 2: attraction objects. And so somehow we have to re engage
24:44
Speaker 2: and remember that this long term partner with someone that
24:47
Speaker 2: at one point we were just really physically attracted to.
24:50
Speaker 2: That gets hard when people lose their hair and get
24:53
Speaker 2: menopause bellies and cellulate or wrinkles. It does, but it doesn't.
24:58
Speaker 2: I mean, if you still are attracted to that human being,
25:02
Speaker 2: you really can still be attracted to them sexually too. Now,
25:06
Speaker 2: our estrogen and testosterone does drop in menopause, there's no
25:10
Speaker 2: question they overary stop making it. And there's no question
25:13
Speaker 2: that hormonal plummet affects both sexes. Men's testosterone is dropping too, remember,
25:20
Speaker 2: and so sometimes I do give women topical testosterone as
25:25
Speaker 2: a libido booster or even injections. Does it help? Yes?
25:29
Speaker 2: Is it a magic bullet that The New York Times
25:32
Speaker 2: makes it out to be? Not really, because I think
25:36
Speaker 2: desire is multifocal, and for women it's contextual. You know,
25:40
Speaker 2: more men have something called spontaneous desire. They're standing in
25:43
Speaker 2: line at the market, there's a super hot woman in
25:45
Speaker 2: front of them, and they're like looking at her like
25:48
Speaker 2: and they're thinking, I would love to have sex. I
25:50
Speaker 2: don't even care with who. I would just love to
25:51
Speaker 2: have sex. For women, they need context and they have
25:56
Speaker 2: what's called receptive desire, which means you can star kissing
26:00
Speaker 2: your partner and you kind of get a little aroused
26:03
Speaker 2: as you're kissing, and once you're aroused, desire sneaks in
26:07
Speaker 2: through the back door. So the good news is you
26:09
Speaker 2: don't have to have baseline desire and walk around with
26:13
Speaker 2: that every day to have a fulfilling sex life. That
26:16
Speaker 2: you can get it after arousal. Does that make sense?
26:19
Speaker 1: Yes? I love that part of your book about you
26:21
Speaker 1: can get you can have desire after arousal. Yeah, they're
26:25
Speaker 1: not se.
26:25
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be that writer, and many women
26:28
Speaker 2: identify with that. You know. Sometimes it's a love language.
26:33
Speaker 2: Some women love when their husband do active service, you know,
26:36
Speaker 2: like the cleaning thing. Or Oh, my husband brings me
26:38
Speaker 2: coffee every morning and I'm just so appreciative and he
26:41
Speaker 2: always puts a rose next to it. We have sex
26:44
Speaker 2: in the morning. That's not me, I'm just giving an example.
26:46
Speaker 2: But the point is for that woman, it's contextual, and
26:50
Speaker 2: yet that coffee and that little sweet touch of the
26:53
Speaker 2: rose does something in her that makes her feel cared
26:56
Speaker 2: for and loved and supported, and that morphs in her
27:00
Speaker 2: into an attraction. And then when you add kissing and
27:03
Speaker 2: cuddling and nuzzling and the speeling of skin against skin,
27:07
Speaker 2: it's enough. It's enough.
27:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know for me, the word intimacy is often misunderstood,
27:19
Speaker 1: and you know, it's been one of the things that
27:22
Speaker 1: I need more of, quite honestly, like intimacy on a
27:26
Speaker 1: non sexual level, which could then eventually, as you say,
27:30
Speaker 1: turn into a sexual level.
27:31
Speaker 2: But it doesn't have to, right, don't have to.
27:34
Speaker 1: I think that's more important for women than men. Is
27:37
Speaker 1: that fair to thing?
27:37
Speaker 2: It is? But I'll give you something a hint because
27:40
Speaker 2: I do a lot of speaking about longevity and long
27:43
Speaker 2: term health optimization, and believe it or not, when couples
27:48
Speaker 2: maintain intimacy long after they're in their sexual prime, but
27:53
Speaker 2: they still have intimacy, those couples have lower rates of depression, anxiety, lonelyiness,
28:00
Speaker 2: lower blood pressure, They have real health benefits in old age.
28:06
Speaker 2: So there's actually also a mental health and physical health
28:10
Speaker 2: benefit to sex in older life, but it's specifically around intimacy.
28:15
Speaker 2: So you hit the nail on the head for the
28:18
Speaker 2: most important word in the sexual health world in terms
28:22
Speaker 2: of bang for buck for overall health and happiness. You
28:25
Speaker 2: just you nailed it, mic Drop Yep, yep, yep.
28:29
Speaker 1: That's how it feels for me at least.
28:31
Speaker 2: Well, it's very common, Jenny, and it's also what a
28:34
Speaker 2: lot of women wish their partners knew, but they don't
28:36
Speaker 2: know how to tell them.
28:37
Speaker 1: I'm not seeking for myself exactly, but oftentimes you can
28:41
Speaker 1: tell someone what you need and they're just not equipped,
28:45
Speaker 1: or they don't know how, or they have never learned
28:48
Speaker 1: how to deliver.
28:49
Speaker 2: I know, and to be honest, my book's cover is
28:54
Speaker 2: very sweet. It's a bed split in half and there's
28:56
Speaker 2: little roses sewing it together because it's people like you
28:59
Speaker 2: and I that I hope read it and learn how
29:01
Speaker 2: to mend this bedroom gap. But if you want to
29:04
Speaker 2: know the truth, I really want our partners to read it.
29:07
Speaker 2: I really want the men to read it so they
29:10
Speaker 2: can come to women and go I think we should
29:12
Speaker 2: talk about this whole thing, because I didn't realize, like,
29:15
Speaker 2: you're okay if we just cuddle, and I'm not always
29:18
Speaker 2: okay if we just cuddle, but I am sometimes, and
29:21
Speaker 2: then that's how you negotiate.
29:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the things I thought of when
29:25
Speaker 1: I was reading, is like, I want my husband to
29:26
Speaker 1: read this, because when I was reading and I thought, oh,
29:29
Speaker 1: I need to talk. We need to talk more about this.
29:32
Speaker 1: And in order for us to have a conversation about it,
29:35
Speaker 1: I think it's important that your partner kind of has
29:39
Speaker 1: the information too.
29:40
Speaker 2: That's right. It's not fair to them to make them guess.
29:43
Speaker 2: You know that famous line of like what women want
29:46
Speaker 2: it's the big mystery. Well, it's a mystery if no
29:48
Speaker 2: one talks. But if, and especially if you can get
29:51
Speaker 2: by directional communication and ask him what he likes or
29:54
Speaker 2: does he have a fantasy, or does he ever wish
29:57
Speaker 2: you could have sex in the morning instead of at
29:59
Speaker 2: night because he's talked whatever. You know, men have their
30:01
Speaker 2: own pressures. They're not just the bad guys that always
30:04
Speaker 2: want sex. They have their own pressures to be something.
30:07
Speaker 1: A lot going on in their heads too, they do.
30:10
Speaker 2: So I don't know, maybe we need a second edition
30:13
Speaker 2: of the book with a male cover, right, so.
30:17
Speaker 1: Sex doesn't have to look the same as it's always looked.
30:20
Speaker 2: And orgasm. You mentioned the orgasm gap. The orgasm GAP's real.
30:26
Speaker 2: There are five different orgasm gaps, and they have to
30:29
Speaker 2: do often with you know, we know, for example, that
30:32
Speaker 2: the biggest orgasm gap is heterosexual couples. In fact, once
30:35
Speaker 2: you put a penis in the room, the rate of
30:38
Speaker 2: female orgasm drops a lot, which kind of sucks for
30:41
Speaker 2: those of us in heterosexual relationships. But I would really
30:45
Speaker 2: argue a lot about what we're saying that if we
30:48
Speaker 2: take orgasm as the goal away and just focus on
30:52
Speaker 2: a pleasurable experience for everyone, it takes a lot of
30:55
Speaker 2: the pressure off of the men to have to get
30:58
Speaker 2: hurt orgasm, the women to have to keep doing whatever
31:01
Speaker 2: they need to do till he orgasms, and then they
31:03
Speaker 2: can go to sleep, all these sort of memes, if
31:06
Speaker 2: you will, sexual tropes, and it allows just pleasure for
31:10
Speaker 2: pleasure's sake. And I think when couples can take the
31:15
Speaker 2: predictability out that that really helps and it helps orgasm
31:20
Speaker 2: happen in a very natural way, and then when it
31:22
Speaker 2: does happen, it's wonderful, and when it doesn't that when
31:24
Speaker 2: it doesn't that's also okay. So I would hope people
31:28
Speaker 2: could read that chapter and come away saying, Okay, what
31:32
Speaker 2: if I didn't put all that pressure on it. What
31:34
Speaker 2: if there wasn't this goal, What if just the sex
31:37
Speaker 2: could be for a pleasure itself.
31:38
Speaker 1: You know, you talk about why pleasure matters for relationships
31:43
Speaker 1: but also for our self esteem, which I think is
31:46
Speaker 1: really important. It kind of goes with the whole philosophy
31:50
Speaker 1: behind this podcast, which is choosing yourself, choosing pleasure for yourself.
31:55
Speaker 1: How about that, right?
31:57
Speaker 2: And why do women think that's selfish?
32:00
Speaker 1: Well, because that's how we're trained, how it's been since
32:03
Speaker 1: the beginning of time.
32:04
Speaker 2: I know, And that's why I did the whole history throwback.
32:07
Speaker 2: It was like, my gosh, we've been fed this for
32:10
Speaker 2: so many generations. It's like our brains come out of
32:14
Speaker 2: the womb wired that way. Why to apologize for everything?
32:18
Speaker 2: Wired to put ourself second, third, fourth, seventh. And I
32:22
Speaker 2: write about my mom and how she just always felt
32:25
Speaker 2: like she couldn't eat meal, the meal till we were
32:27
Speaker 2: all finished or whatever. And the term guilty pleasures, Why
32:31
Speaker 2: are guilty pleasures of female thing?
32:33
Speaker 1: Why is that even in the same sentence exactly? And pleasure?
32:37
Speaker 2: And why do you other than why do I not
32:40
Speaker 2: know any men who are like I'm going to watch
32:42
Speaker 2: a football game on TV? It's a guilty pleasure. They're
32:45
Speaker 2: just like, I'm going to watch it.
32:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm doing exactly.
32:49
Speaker 2: So we could definitely use some rewiring. And I hope
32:52
Speaker 2: that books like this will help women feel a little
32:54
Speaker 2: empowered and a little like they're not normal for wanting
32:58
Speaker 2: to just you know, have the best life they can
33:00
Speaker 2: because we're living longer, so it's crazy to think like
33:03
Speaker 2: a menopausal I guess that's it. You know, we live
33:05
Speaker 2: a third of our lives after menopause, so as well enjoyed.
33:09
Speaker 1: I read that statistic to my girls in the room
33:12
Speaker 1: earlier today about the you know, our age expectancy. Yeah,
33:17
Speaker 1: and how relevant that is and how much it has changed.
33:20
Speaker 1: But talk to me about the importance of viagra and
33:24
Speaker 1: the gender divide, because this is the hot subject for me.
33:30
Speaker 2: Well, the original title of the book was Viaggravation because
33:35
Speaker 2: I started wanting to write it to show women that
33:38
Speaker 2: it's not your fault if you don't keep up with him,
33:41
Speaker 2: because he's now on viagra and you've gone from having
33:44
Speaker 2: sex usually once a week to now he wants it
33:47
Speaker 2: four or five times a week, and you're fifty eight
33:50
Speaker 2: and exhausted and running four careers and three kids, and
33:54
Speaker 2: you're still in charge of throwing out the carrots and
33:56
Speaker 2: the refrigerator that get soggy, you know, like all those
33:59
Speaker 2: women things that meant some things, and you just want
34:02
Speaker 2: to crawl in bed and go to sleep. And so
34:04
Speaker 2: viagra may it widened the bedroom gap because instead of
34:09
Speaker 2: aging in parallel, because we know couples in their thirties
34:13
Speaker 2: have sex x times a year, and their forties a
34:15
Speaker 2: little less, fifties a little less, sixties, a little less,
34:18
Speaker 2: seventies a little less. That's just normal, that's okay, And
34:22
Speaker 2: actually people keep having sex, so it's great. But when
34:25
Speaker 2: you get a fifty to sixty year old man, because
34:28
Speaker 2: that's the peak infidelity decade, and you give him viagra
34:33
Speaker 2: and his wife rejects him, and because she's having vaginal
34:36
Speaker 2: dryness or she's tired or whatever, you're setting yourself up
34:40
Speaker 2: for marital problems or relationship problems or possibly infidelity. And
34:45
Speaker 2: I'm not saying viagra leads to infidelity or I'm but
34:49
Speaker 2: it certainly makes the playing field uneven. And we have
34:53
Speaker 2: not done a good job in medical research and pharma
34:57
Speaker 2: at researching women's diseases. Take making women seriously doing women's
35:02
Speaker 2: specific product development, not nearly enough. Only seven percent of
35:07
Speaker 2: the whole NIH budget goes to women and children lump together.
35:11
Speaker 2: You know what, we're fifty percent of population.
35:13
Speaker 1: That's brain rattling.
35:16
Speaker 2: I don't under forty seven billion dollars and only two
35:20
Speaker 2: percent of that goes to women only disease research Like
35:24
Speaker 2: that's so insulting. Insulting is certainly one word. It's it's
35:30
Speaker 2: flagrant hard to hear. Well, I don't know that that's
35:33
Speaker 2: going to change like this year, you know. I mean,
35:35
Speaker 2: we would need a really big turnaround of thinking, you know,
35:40
Speaker 2: to change it. We're getting little bits.
35:42
Speaker 1: We're getting little bits finally, but it was just never
35:44
Speaker 1: talked about before this whole movement. In the last few years,
35:48
Speaker 1: I would say, of making my mainstream conversation we taught.
35:52
Speaker 1: We started by talking about depression more openly, which was
35:56
Speaker 1: so freeing and helpful for so many people. Yeah, these
36:00
Speaker 1: conversations are so necessary too. I think the whole viagra
36:04
Speaker 1: thing sort of even further shifted the expectations or the
36:09
Speaker 1: mindset to performance, yes, being more important than pleasure.
36:14
Speaker 2: That's right. It did us a true disservice. And then
36:17
Speaker 2: what happened was Pfizer launched it for men with a
36:21
Speaker 2: rectile dysfunction. Great, a true disease, and it was it
36:25
Speaker 2: happened to be the same time we were allowed to
36:27
Speaker 2: start doing TV ads, so they put all the TV
36:30
Speaker 2: ads on with Bob Dole have the courage to go
36:33
Speaker 2: to your doctor, and men did it. So suddenly there
36:35
Speaker 2: were millions of prescriptions out there. And then Pfizer said, gee,
36:39
Speaker 2: why don't we just see if like every man on
36:41
Speaker 2: the planet wants it, and then we make more money,
36:43
Speaker 2: which was brilliant. And the problem is that meant it
36:46
Speaker 2: became you didn't have to go to your doctor and
36:48
Speaker 2: go I'm really ashamed I have a rectile dysfunction. You
36:51
Speaker 2: could just say I want it, and so more and
36:54
Speaker 2: more men got it.
36:55
Speaker 1: Not only that I want it, and I also like
36:58
Speaker 1: it to be covered by my insurance.
37:00
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, that's what we call the
37:03
Speaker 2: pink tax. If it's for women, we up the price
37:05
Speaker 2: and make it not covered. So I know. And remember,
37:09
Speaker 2: testosterone is FDA approved for men but not for women.
37:13
Speaker 2: Even though both genders make it, both genders lose it,
37:18
Speaker 2: and both genders need it. But we've genderized our hormones
37:23
Speaker 2: so even at the FDA, they think of testosterone as
37:25
Speaker 2: a male thing, even though we benefit from it. So
37:29
Speaker 2: do not hesitate to say to a doctor, I have fatigue,
37:34
Speaker 2: I have low energy, my libido is gone. I'd love
37:38
Speaker 2: you to test my testosterone level because I'm pretty sure
37:41
Speaker 2: it's going to be close to zero. And I'd like
37:44
Speaker 2: you to help me with that and help me. And
37:46
Speaker 2: I understand it has to be compounded, but I accept that.
37:50
Speaker 2: I really, you know, in sixty bucks it lasts for
37:52
Speaker 2: three months, I'd really like to spend that money. And
37:55
Speaker 2: for many women, it's really a lovely, like just nudge.
37:58
Speaker 2: It's not mind blowing, but it's really a lovely nudge
38:02
Speaker 2: forward and we deserve that.
38:06
Speaker 1: I want to talk really quickly about GSM. I won't
38:09
Speaker 1: even attempt to say the oh.
38:11
Speaker 2: It's so long genito urinary syndrome. Why do we have
38:16
Speaker 2: to have a syndrome by the way of menopause?
38:18
Speaker 1: Like the whole thing, this whole conversation is actually infuriating me,
38:22
Speaker 1: which I hate to do to our listeners, but maybe
38:25
Speaker 1: it's necessary. We need to get a little angry about
38:29
Speaker 1: what has happened to women in our healthcare systems and
38:34
Speaker 1: I think that that's what's finally happening with so many women,
38:37
Speaker 1: thank god.
38:38
Speaker 2: Well it's what's making them demand some answers and some information. So,
38:42
Speaker 2: I mean, women go on my Instagram all the time,
38:45
Speaker 2: Maria Sophocle's MD, and they're like, I don't know what
38:49
Speaker 2: this is. I mean, they they're angry. They ask really
38:51
Speaker 2: basic questions because they were dismissed. Their doctor says, look,
38:55
Speaker 2: you had cancer, I got rid of it all good,
38:58
Speaker 2: you know. Or you at high blood pressure. I'm here
39:00
Speaker 2: to fix that. That's enough, you know. And it's like, yeah,
39:03
Speaker 2: but I can't have sex. Why is that not okay?
39:06
Speaker 2: Why is that okay? You know? So GSM is the
39:09
Speaker 2: medical term for what happens to our vulva and vagina
39:14
Speaker 2: and bladder when we lose estrogen. And the best fifteen
39:18
Speaker 2: second video to see was created for me for my
39:22
Speaker 2: Ted Talk. So if people google ted talk marinosoftly, you'll
39:25
Speaker 2: see this beautiful animation of a thick, ridgy, juicy, dark
39:30
Speaker 2: pink vaginal wall becoming thin and inelastic and sort of
39:34
Speaker 2: yellowish white. It's fairly depressing, but you'll understand why. It
39:39
Speaker 2: feels like there's shards of glass in the vagina when
39:41
Speaker 2: you're trying to have sex.
39:43
Speaker 1: And also just makes you feel less alone, like this
39:45
Speaker 1: is not just a you problem.
39:47
Speaker 2: This is a real problem, exactly exactly, and again, probably
39:53
Speaker 2: about seventy percent of all women eventually in their life
39:56
Speaker 2: will experience this. It often is about five years after menopause,
40:00
Speaker 2: so the average agent menopause is fifty one. It's usually
40:02
Speaker 2: the fifty six, fifty seven, fifty eight year old coming
40:05
Speaker 2: in my office with tears in her eyes saying, it
40:08
Speaker 2: feels like sandpaper in there. I cannot do it. I
40:11
Speaker 2: cannot do it, and my beg, I beg you all,
40:14
Speaker 2: don't wait until it's that bad. Come to the doctor
40:17
Speaker 2: in your late forties early fifties and say, I want
40:20
Speaker 2: help now. It wasn't a it's an AS or B.
40:24
Speaker 2: Plus I don't want to ever get worse than that
40:26
Speaker 2: because it's always fixable. But it's much easier to climb
40:29
Speaker 2: a LESSTI pill, and we can do it with vaginal estrogen.
40:33
Speaker 2: There's a carbon dioxide laser that I actually brought to
40:37
Speaker 2: America from Italy called Mona Lisa Touch, so you can
40:40
Speaker 2: find someone in your zip code that has that. There's
40:44
Speaker 2: even a medication, a non hormonal pill that will turn
40:47
Speaker 2: on the receptors and fix things so you can fix
40:51
Speaker 2: all that. Lube is great too, By the way, Lube
40:53
Speaker 2: doesn't make any new cells. Lube does not cure GSM,
40:58
Speaker 2: but it will always be a love additive, a lovely
41:02
Speaker 2: band aid. And lube can be at any age. And
41:05
Speaker 2: I would beg you to make lube something you giggle about,
41:08
Speaker 2: you shop together for, you proudly display on your end table.
41:12
Speaker 2: You don't hide it under the pillow and hope nobody
41:14
Speaker 2: sees it. It's it's okay, just say hey, I would
41:18
Speaker 2: love to have even more fun tonight. And I got
41:21
Speaker 2: this lube and it says it's got alo vera, which
41:23
Speaker 2: makes me very happy. So we're gonna use a. You know,
41:26
Speaker 2: it's not about shame.
41:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, So everybody listening, ask the doctor, ask about GSM,
41:31
Speaker 1: ask about vaginal estrogen, ask about all the things. To
41:34
Speaker 1: let go of the shame and just reject the idea
41:36
Speaker 1: that suffering is normal and that you are the only one,
41:39
Speaker 1: because that is certainly not the case. You are not broken,
41:44
Speaker 1: you are not around you.
41:46
Speaker 2: You are like such an awesome advocate.
41:47
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because I'm in it. I'm here with you.
41:50
Speaker 1: Everybody that's listening, either you're in it, you've been in it,
41:53
Speaker 1: or you're gonna be in it, So deal with that.
41:57
Speaker 1: The bedroom gap is available where ever you buy your books,
42:01
Speaker 1: and I highly recommend it. Buy one for yourself, buy
42:03
Speaker 1: one for your partner, your friend. But before I let
42:06
Speaker 1: you go, Yes, book group, let's all talk about it
42:09
Speaker 1: before I let you go. Doctor Maria Sophocles, what was
42:13
Speaker 1: your last I Choose me moment?
42:16
Speaker 2: My last I choose me moment? Oh, that's a really
42:20
Speaker 2: brilliant question, and I think it was. I was watching
42:25
Speaker 2: my daughter, she's a stand up comedian and actress in
42:27
Speaker 2: New York, and I remember thinking I had something really
42:33
Speaker 2: important to do, a patient emergency, and I kind of thought, no,
42:38
Speaker 2: it's really important that I see her and support her.
42:41
Speaker 2: And I got someone to take care of the patient.
42:42
Speaker 2: And I went to see this stand up show and
42:45
Speaker 2: I just loved got I got so much like heart
42:49
Speaker 2: and soul swelling from watching this beautiful human being on
42:53
Speaker 2: the stage just owning herself as a young woman, because
42:58
Speaker 2: I get to see so many young women struggling and
43:00
Speaker 2: suffering with guiani shoes or self esteem is shoes or
43:05
Speaker 2: eating disorders, and you know, it's hard that generation. She's
43:08
Speaker 2: twenty three. That generation had COVID and so much to
43:12
Speaker 2: deal with. And in a weird way, it was choosing
43:14
Speaker 2: myself because I think I have three sons and I'm
43:17
Speaker 2: so proud of them. They're amazing humans. But to see
43:21
Speaker 2: her just flourish and flower, I think one of my missions, Jenny,
43:25
Speaker 2: is that our daughters, the next generation, learn about all
43:29
Speaker 2: this that we spoke about, so that they can choose
43:32
Speaker 2: themselves right in their twenties and have ask the questions
43:37
Speaker 2: they want, communicate for what they want. I didn't really.
43:41
Speaker 2: I was really that twenty year old nervous to impress
43:44
Speaker 2: someone and pretend I was better at sex than I
43:47
Speaker 2: was and had sex when I didn't want to. And
43:50
Speaker 2: you know, I admit that freely because every other girl
43:53
Speaker 2: I knew in college was doing the same thing. And
43:57
Speaker 2: I think my daughter Kat is you know, Cat Martin
44:00
Speaker 2: is her name. She's just really more informed. And I
44:04
Speaker 2: brought books to all her roommates in college and the
44:07
Speaker 2: whole dorm, and so unfortunately for the dorm, they all
44:10
Speaker 2: got way more sex said than they wanted. Probably, But
44:13
Speaker 2: I just I choose me because it's it gives me
44:17
Speaker 2: so much pleasure to impact people of different generations, and
44:21
Speaker 2: obviously for your and my generation. I love those women
44:25
Speaker 2: to kind of have their own little sexual renaissance. So
44:28
Speaker 2: you know, I I love what I do and I'm
44:31
Speaker 2: so honored to get to do it. So I think,
44:34
Speaker 2: in a way, that's choosing me.
44:35
Speaker 1: You know it is, and your your passion is just
44:39
Speaker 1: so inspiring and it's meaningful. I can imagine being a
44:43
Speaker 1: patient of yours, and your passion just you know, requires
44:46
Speaker 1: that I get passionate about it too, like it just
44:49
Speaker 1: you know.
44:49
Speaker 2: But look at the time you're giving to this. I mean,
44:51
Speaker 2: you are so inspiring because you're willing to say, Guys,
44:55
Speaker 2: this concept of I choose me is valuable. It's valuable
44:59
Speaker 2: to everyone of us. So I love it. I've embraced it,
45:02
Speaker 2: I've shared it. I hope you don't mind. I've totally
45:06
Speaker 2: borrowed it. I've given you credit, but I'm totally borrowed it.
45:09
Speaker 2: And I think more women need to be able to
45:11
Speaker 2: say that. And we spoke about how hard that is
45:14
Speaker 2: for so many women. So the Bedroom get Book does
45:17
Speaker 2: touch on a sort of I choose me concept. If
45:19
Speaker 2: you think about Absolutely, we need a double book toward Jenny.
45:25
Speaker 1: It's a must read, honestly, a must read. This is
45:28
Speaker 1: information we should all have. Thank you so much for
45:31
Speaker 1: being us you guys. I'm very excited to share that
45:35
Speaker 1: my book I Choose Me Chasing Joy, Finding Purpose and
45:39
Speaker 1: Embracing reinvention is coming April fourteenth, and it would mean
45:44
Speaker 1: the world to me if you would pre order a
45:47
Speaker 1: copy or the audiobook wherever you get your books. And yes,
45:51
Speaker 1: I am definitely narrating the audiobook, so it's going to
45:54
Speaker 1: be so fun.