Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Lady of the Dunes

Transcript

Lady of the Dunes · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: The Golden Age of serial murders was a span of
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: forty years when murder ran rampant through the United States
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: of America with the likes of prolific killers and cold
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: case murders. Today we cover a case known as the
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Lady of the Dunes, which is a cold case from
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the Golden Age in nineteen seventy four, which gained some
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: new life in twenty twenty two when her identity was
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: finally uncovered. My name's Ben and.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast. The following podcasts and material
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. We're
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: recording in the morning this time instead of late at night.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: How's it going. Good morning.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's no beer opening or anything.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I guess no, I don't even have coffee this morning,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: so it's just tea.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: We're tea slurping.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm out of coffee officially ran out yesterday. Had
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a panic attack. And I mean
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: the tea's actually doing the job, Okay.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I was like, what a terrible day.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean I don't drink the coffee for the caffeine.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I drink it for that warm hug feeling in the morning,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and then the tea is it's sufficing. I don't think
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: it would day after day, but it is. It is
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: definitely sufficing. It can fill that voice.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: It's doing the trick for the day. Hey, well, I'm
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: going out later, so I'll get you some more coffee.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Appreciate that. Thank you. That's what marriage is about you
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: out of coffee. I got your back.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's also for myself too, right, what what
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: because lots of times they say like coffee wakes you
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: up and makes you in a better mood and stuff.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: So I'm doing it for myself too. Oh.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I thought you meant like the part of marriage was
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: for you specifically. I was like, okay, yeah, and generally
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: people get something out of marriage. I would think there'd
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: be something for you in there.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I would think so too. Yeah. Wow, Holy I love
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: what you took that so differently.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm a little bit slow this morning. It's freaking
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: daylight savings time, like two days ago or one day. Yeah,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: when was it Saturday? Saturday? Well, technically Sunday.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Sunday morning or early Sunday morning. Yeah, isn't it like two.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: In the morning in the morning. Yeah, I hate daylight
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: savings time. It's the most It's the dumbest thing in
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the world. In my opinion. I think it's absurd.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's probably not necessary.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Really, I don't think it is.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: They talk all like every year. I feel like there's
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: a discussion about, you know, not having it anymore, but
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: well there.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Are places that don't have it across Canada and the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: States even.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I don't know. I just it is what
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: it is. I feel like I don't even worry about
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: because I can't change it.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Right, touche too shape. I just think it's absurd. It's like, oh,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you don't have enough light at this portion of the day,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: so we're going to give you light at that portion
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: of the day. But in order to do so, we're
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: going to take it away from this part of the
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: day because we can't just extend it.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, and especially if you have kids and stuff like,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: it messes it up.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It does. It's like, just schedules and let people have
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: their natural cycle. Come on.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Now. Yeah, I don't know.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: That's my view of it.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I think that's a pretty common view.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I think so too. Anyways, we got to say thank
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: some patrons who support the show. So this week we
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: had a few awesome people sign up and I'm probably
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: going to butcher their names, but I am going to
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: try my best. So here we go. Thank you so
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: much to Laurie de Laurentis, Jessica Smith, Paul Montoya, and
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Daniel Supernat. So thank you very much to all of
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: you for signing up on Patreon, supporting the show and
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: being here and listening and just being freaking on Wicked.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, thank you so freaking much, freaking much
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: freaking and us speaking of Patreon, this case comes from
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Patreon today. It does. Yeah, they get a lot to say,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Actually they do in cases that we end up choosing.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: So we did ah give us some recommendations on the
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: last Patreon case, and so they put out a bunch
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: of recommendations and we took like, I think it was
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: the top four that kind of peaked our interest. And
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: then we did a poll voting on Patreon and the
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: top one was the Patreon episode exclusive, the exclusive one
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: for the month that we did. But this one was
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: number two in that voting poll and it kind of
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: piqued my interest. So that's what we're doing today.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: We're doing it too.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't even tell the patrons that this this was
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: going to be the case until, like, I don't know,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I think it was like last night when.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: We were going to bed something. Yeah.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So they only knew that this was going to
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: be their recommendation on this case just slightly before you guys.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they seemed so stoked.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Were stoked. I'm stoked on it too.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Well. It sounds very interesting. I mean your intro. I
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: was just like, oh, wow.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Well it is. It's a cold case from back in
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: the seventies that there was literally no trail. And I'm
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you right now, this case there's
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: not a whole lot of information because the trail was
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: just so cold for so long. Okay, So yeah, that's
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: all it is. So yeah, we're going to dive into
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: this cold case and how it actually got it. Its
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: a breath of life metaphorically speaking in twenty twenty two. Okay, okay, okay.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: So on July twenty sixth, nineteen seventy four, a little
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: twelve year old girl was out on a mission. She's
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: running after her barking dog in Race Point Dunes, in Provincetown, Massachusetts.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure many people have been there before, you know,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: chasing after your dog gets off the leash, or the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: leash gets yanked out of your hand.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Right yeah, And the dog's just like what yeah.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: No matter how much you call its name, it, she
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: just goes and goes and goes, probably chasing a squirrel
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: or something. But that's exactly a situation for this little girl.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: She's going after her dog who is not listening to
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: her whatsoever and just taken off. So the only thing
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: is something was different. Soon this little girl would find
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: her dog would stop and allow her to catch up.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: The dog was now distracted intensely sniffing, and when the
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: girl approached. In that moment, things took a very dark
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: turn as this little twelve year old girl realized she
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: was now looking at the remains of a human body
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: where her dog now stood.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Oh oh no, hey A, I mean, finding a body
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: is horrible, but a little twelve year old girl finding
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: a body, I know, I don't love that.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: We Actually, we just had a case a couple of
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: cases ago, the case with Bussy McLean who murdered his mother,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and there were parts strewn about the trash and the
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: dog found those parts as well. Yeah, so we had
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: a case just like this not long ago. And you
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: said that was like a fear of yours.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean just running across a body. But
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I just feel like, I mean, it would be traumatic
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: no matter what age you are, but a twelve year old,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess the trauma would last with you
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: a little bit longer.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Well, I think adults are generally speaking more adapt to
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: handle trauma. Not that they are necessarily able to deal
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: with the better, but we're more adapt to I think
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: about it. You know, we're not It couldn't impact us
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: as hard. Maybe I don't know what I'm saying.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean also, a twelve year old may not
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: even I mean, they would know what death is, but
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: they may not, you know, know what it is to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: the extent that like an adult would right.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Or understand why someone could do that, you know, maybe
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: not really fully understand murder. Death. I could probably understand
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: a twelve year old understanding that murder might be a
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: bit of a different concept.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: And it's too young of an age to know that
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: the world shit, yeah right, it's really the ultimate thing.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, authorities though regardless of this, little girl were
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: notified immediately and they quickly began their investigation at the scene. Now,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the body that was found was that of a woman
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: who is estimated to be between the ages of twenty
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: five and forty years old. There were some reports at
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: saying that she could be even as young as twenty
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: and upwards of even forty five years old, but generally speaking,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the consensus was between twenty five and forty.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: That's quite arranged.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: It is quite a range. And you'll understand why here
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: in a moment, because her body was giving off a
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: very horrible odor as investigators did their work, because she
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: was very badly decomposed.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's kind of what I figured.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there was a very apparently significant insect activity
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: on her body. Nice, which this actually helps give a
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: timeline to her death as they can actually estimate based
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: off the type of insects present at the scene and
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: on the remains, and not only that, but how far
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: along their life cycles is. So they're like, Okay, if
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: this insect is here and it's in this stage of life,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: then we can estimate that it's the body's been here
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: for Okay, this amount of time.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew that they would use the insects to
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: their advantage, but you forget about that kind of thing.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I think I learned that one in like CSI way
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: back in the day. Yeah, yeah, back when we were
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: probably like, I don't know, twenty one years old watching
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: CSI on our weekends. Good times. In this case, though,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: it was estimated that she would have been deceased for
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: approximately two weeks. Okay, yeah, so she's been in this
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: spot decomposing for the last two weeks. The woman had
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: long red hair that was pulled back into a ponytail.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Under her head was a pair of Wrangler jeans and
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: a blue bandana. She had pink nail polish on her
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: toes and was laying on a blanket. Though she was
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: nearly decapitated from a reported extremely brutal strangling, her cause
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: of death was instead from blunt force trauma to the
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: side of her head. Reported that the weapons was something
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: that was suspected to be such as a shovel or
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: a entrenching tool, which is kind of like a really
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: big like pickaxe almost. It's like a pick axe with
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: like a shovel end, so it's like you can swing
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: in like dig trenches in the war or whatever sort
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: of thing. Okay, so it's something along those lines could
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: have been used to deliver that final blow to the
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: side of her head. Now, strangely enough, though, there were
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: absolutely no signs of struggle present, which includes no defensive wounds,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: but there was evidence that sexual assault took place. Okay,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: So with those two things in mind, no defensive wounds
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and sexual assault took place. So does that mean it
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: was post It was most likely that this occurred post mortem.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: You know, Oh, it's so terrible because it just like
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: it almost just sounds like that you're describing this beautiful
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: woman and she's just like laying peacefully on this blanket,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: and then you go deeper and like her head's almost decapitated.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Like it's just, oh yeah, it's a good way to
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: start the day listening to this.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean that whole like she's laying peacefully on
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the blanket sort of thing that actually plays a rather
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: big role in this. And like, I mean, honestly, everything
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: we've talked about so far is actually very big if
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: you really break it down, like, for example, the post
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: mortem thing and the fact that it was like no
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: defensive wounds, it's a very big piece of evidence, especially
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: when coupled with the idea that the attacker may have
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: been laying right next to her.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's almost it's of someone that she probably knew,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe had a relationship with.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Exactly how There was reportedly some sort of impression in
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: the ground, which also depending on how you look at it,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: but most likely how they were looking at it. The
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: angle of the blow on her head suggested that the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: person was laying next to hers all which began raising
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: questions was she sleeping at the time, and more importantly,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: did she know her attacker attacker because she probably was
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: sleeping next to her attacker on the ground in this
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: position when they struck.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, Okay, that's terrible, it is, I mean, but
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: what the heck? They say, Well, there's a reason why
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: the main suspect is always the significant other, the partner. Yeah.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's usually someone in the most immediate family. Like
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: a child goes missing, it's you know, the parents, right,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: or you know, parents go missing, it's the children, or
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: a wife it's the husband, the husband, it's the wife.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: It's immediate family. Yeah, and it's usually nine times out
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: of time, I think pretty spot on an estimate. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, now,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: it was the most likely scenario that she did know
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: the attacker and that she was asleep when the assault
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: initially took place. The two have me been laying next
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: to each other when she drifted off and the person
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: had simply struck.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Then took the opportunity.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Yep. One of the biggest details about the remains that
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: were found, however, I've yet to mention both her hands
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and several of her teeth had been removed and were missing.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: She had no hands on her body, they were cut
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and multiple teeth were pulled from her mouth.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: It appeared as if whoever had committed this horrific crime
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: did not want the authorities to identify the remains that
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: they had just found, taking away dental impressions and fingerprints alike.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, do you want to know something ridiculous? Is apparently
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: I haven't woken up whatsoever, because I didn't even think yeah.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I was actually kind of waiting for you to chime
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: in and say it, but you didn't. So I just
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: got to read my script and I was like, okay,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: oh that.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Is the worst. I was like, oh, that's so weird.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: In my head, and then oh, yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: That's why taking away her identity.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense, yep.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Which is exactly why this case was cold for.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So long, because then no idea who the fuck she was?
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: You bet you now. An autopsy revealed both the cause
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: of death and the sexual assault that took place post mortem,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: but it also revealed her last meal, a burger and fries,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: which could potentially be a useful piece of information when
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: trying to piece together her last steps before the assault. Now,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: other than this and two sets of footprints that were
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: found leading away from the crime scene and a set
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of tire tracks, investigators didn't have a whole lot of
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: information to go on to identify the woman or what happened.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: They began trying to run license plate numbers for everyone
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: who had visited the park around the time in the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: woman's murder. It unfortunately didn't help them identifying her at all,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: and there was no record of her or who they
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: thought she could have been arriving in the area. So
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: they're going through these records. No one matches a missing
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: person's report, no one matches the description of her. It's
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: just simply she has no record of being in this area.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: That's so bizarre.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and now brought up the possibility that her body
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: may have been dumped here after being killed somewhere else. Now,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: we do know many of these things happened post mortem, right,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: so it is a possibility she was killed somewhere else,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: dumped here the post mortem things occurred in this spot
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and then the killer left.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that could very well be.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if that is the case, it only complicates
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: the matter further because now they may not have a
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: crime scene even Yeah.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, gosh, I feel like solving a murder
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: is hard enough, and then this just makes it tenfold.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Oh and this person whoever committed this is doing all
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: this on purpose to ensure that they don't get caught.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: They had this plan, which is just so disgusting.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Now. She was buried three months later in October of
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, after the case went cold. She was
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: buried as a Jane Doe in Saint Peter's Cemetery near
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: the center of town. Her grave held a small stone
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: headstone with the words that read quote unidentified female body
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: found Race Point Dunes, July twenty sixth, nineteen seventy four.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, I hate that I know.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: It's something that I don't think anyone should have on
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: their their headstone, but in the very least, at least
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you do have a final resting place.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's nice that they do give them that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: But oh yeah, I mean someone would have had to
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: loved her and knew.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Her, oh for sure. It's just who and where are they?
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And where did she come from? That's the only question.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I guess technically she could even be from
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: another area of like the country. She could she could be.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: From another country. Yeah, we have no clue.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Now, despite the short time period that had passed at
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: this point, police did not give up easily. They poured
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: over thousands of missing persons cases and of course the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: already mentioned vehicles, the information on what had gone through
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the area in the time for death, and no matter
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: what they did, it seemed like they just could not
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: get any leads, no matches, know nothing. There was nothing
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that they could find. No other evidence was found despite
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: consistent revisits and searching through the surrounding area where she
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: was initially discovered. So even though that they can't find anything, like, well,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: what if we go back and maybe we could find
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: something else. Consistently they're doing this and they just can't
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: find any more information. They can't get a lead, they
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: can't get any farther ahead.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like they're not giving up though, and
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I do not really love.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: That they are not giving up, and it is awesome.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Though the case was cold, it didn't mean investigators even
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: forgot about her. A few years later had passed by,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: and still they wanted to find who she was. They
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: were certain that if they could find her identity, they
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: could find who killed her. In nineteen seventy nine, they
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: took the skull of the Jane Doe, which was not
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: buried with her body, because in hopes that it would
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: you know, help identifying her, okay, and they did a
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: clay facial reconstruction of what she may look like. In
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty her remains were also unearthed and hopes to
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: collect any missing possible evidence and obtain a DNA sample. Still,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: regardless of their attempts, there were no advancements in the case.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I'm actually shocked that they're just I mean, I know
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: that that happens, Like you know, they half close the
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: case for lack of evidence, but it's still ongoing. But
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: it just seems like they're really you know, yeah, it
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: affected them and they want this solved. I like that.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, they definitely do. And I don't think they were
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: they ever closed this case. It was just left open
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: as a cold case. Okay when they when they close
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the case, I'm pretty sure it generally doesn't get reopen
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. It's like, yeah, this isn't going to
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: get solved sort of thing.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean there's I could be wrong, but
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: there's this asshole running around that they that needs to uh,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: you know, be in prison.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely I can agree with you on that one. Now,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: there were a few leads that investigators had looked into,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: and including in nineteen eighty seven when a Canadian woman
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: allegedly told a friend that she saw her father strangle
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: a woman in Massachusetts around nineteen seventy two. Police attempted
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: to locate this woman, but unfortunately they were unsuccessful. And
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I just want to say, Okay, why the fuck would
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: you not come forward if you saw someone strangle someone sooner?
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unless you there's many reasons, right, maybe
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: you were like afraid or something, but yeah, for any reasons,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: but not many excuses. Yeah, I don't know good reasons,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I guess, I don't know.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I can understand, because if you think that you're you
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: yourself are a danger, I totally get it makes sense.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: But also this to me just sounds like she's having
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: a passing conversation with like a friend at a nail
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: slawan sort of situation. Oh this one time, I thought
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: my dad strangled this check. And it's like, why is
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: this such a casual conversation for you right now? That's
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the impression I get.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it should not be a casual, yeah, conversation.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: If it's a casual conversation, you should have loved already
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: have gone to the police.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the police should definitely have already known, because.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: If you have, like we already talked about an excuse
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: or a reason why you're not doing it, you're not
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: having a casual conversation about Yeah. So, regardless of the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: police could not attempt this woman, and there is a
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: possibility that it was even.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Just a rumor, so oh okay.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Another woman claimed that the reconstruction of the victim looked
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: like her sister who had disappeared in Boston in nineteen
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: seventy four, But no luck. Okay, investigators also followed a
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: lead involving a missing criminal, Rory gene Kessinger, and other
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: missing women. However, all of them were ruled out. No
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: matter who they looked into, no matter what lead they
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: did have, they still found themselves with a mystery and
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: a cold case.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just no smoking gun, hey.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it remained a mystery for years to come,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: like despite her body being exhumed two more times.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: For sample more time.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, once in two thousand and another in twenty thirteen. Now,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: during this time, her skull sat on the desk of
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Provincetown Police Chief. The police chief, it was sitting there
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: as a reminder of the case that they have yet
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: to solve.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Good God.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: And in twenty ten, the skull was scanned for a
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: computer generated facial reconstruction. This time even still, the case
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: remained cold, just as it was since the day arrived
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: on their desk her first time.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, Wow, I can't believe just how how much they're
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: not giving up on this, Like the skull is just
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: there as a daily reminder, yeah, that this is not solved,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: and like we got to find this person.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Right wow. Like at first when I read that that
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: the skull was just sitting on the police chief's desk.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Like when I say it's a daily reminder, that's my words.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Because at first I was like, well, that's kind of
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: almost disrespectful sort of thing, right, Like why would you
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: do that? But also in the same sense, I've got
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a bit of a morbid curiosity, and I would love
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: to own a human skull because I would love to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: take care of it.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's where that conversation came from. Yes, yes, well
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Ben was researching this. He's like, hey, would you want
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: to own a human soul? It's like that's so random,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: And also.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think so, well, I I would love to
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: have it for the fact that it's, hey, it's could
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: be a beautiful piece. It's like beauty after death sort
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: of thing, right, And it's like I feel like, if
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: you respect that piece of that person and you still
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: like let them rest and you take care of them,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I think it could be a beautiful thing sort of thing.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: And then I kind of got thinking about that in
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: this police chief police chief sense, I'm like, okay, well,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: what if he's not just like, oh, it's a it's
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: a fucking paperweight, right, what if he does have a
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: reason for keeping it. And what better reason for a
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: police chief to keep a skull on the desk like
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: that would be for a simple reminder to say, we
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: got to solve this and you got to find out
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: who this person is, not only for us, but for
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: her so she can rest totally.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: And it also, I feel like is kind of a
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: symbol of why they do the job too. Like it
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: it doesn't. It represents her, but it also just represents
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: you know, it's that one case that got away, but
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: also you know, we're here for this reason and like
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: we're protecting people and like solving unimaginable things that happened
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: to them.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we honestly, we could talk about the skull and
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: being on his desk for I could go on for
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: hours about this because it is a fascinating topic to me.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: But my best guess it was there for that reminder.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: It was there, as you said, to represent, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: what they're there for, and that's where the skull sat.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: And because of that they were able to use it
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and make a computer generated reconstruction as well. Now it
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: would take another five years until the next lead came in.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: In August of twenty fifteen, there was talk of an
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: unidentified woman that might have been an extra in the
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: famous movie Jaws. You know the shark movie right, which
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: was filmed in nineteen seventy four in Martha's Vineyard, not
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: too far from where the woman's body was found, only
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: about one hundred miles away now. Joe Hill, the son
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: of the writer Stephen King Jaws, brought this idea to
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the attention of the police because he noticed a woman
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: in the movie's beach scene who resembled the description of
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the lady in The Lady of the Dunes. Now. She
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: was wearing a blue bandana and jenes very similar to
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: the ones found with the body. Really, yes, now, it
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: was a very interesting lead to some others dismissed it
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: right away, but ultimately it would not lead to identifying
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the woman, just like any of the other leads before it.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, the skeletal remains of Jane Doe
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: were sent off to AUTHOROM for analysis. Using new age
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: advanced DNA technology. They created a DNA profile from the remains,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: which were then used to find distant relatives through a
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: process called genetic genealogy, which combines DNA testing with traditional genealogy.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Research the same way how the Golden State killer was identified.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, they were finally able to find the
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: identity of the Lady of the Dunes.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Okay, I mean this is cool because
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: it's like they almost knew that technology would advance, right,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: and they're keeping her well. They had to exhume her
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: a couple times. When it sucks, but this is good.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's good. They held out hope, They did not
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: give up, and like you say, they were just waiting
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: for the moment when they had the break in the case. Yeah,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and this is where it comes. So on October thirty first,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: on Halloween of twenty twenty two, the FBI office in
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Boston released a public statement that revealed that the victim
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: was a woman by the name of Ruth Marie Terry.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Ruth okay so.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Ruth Terry was born on September eighth, nineteen thirty six,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: in Whitwell, Tennessee, to John and Eva Terry. In nineteen
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: fifty seven, Ruth lived left Whitwell after a short lived
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: marriage and found work as a Fisher Body automotive sorry
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: at the Fisher Body Automotive Plant in Livnona, Michigan. The
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: following year, she gave birth to her son, Richard. However,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: facing financial struggles, Ruth made the difficult decision to allow
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: her workplace superintendent to adopt her son, and after the adoption,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Ruth had moved to California. On February sixteenth, nineteen seventy four,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Ruth would marry a man by the name of Guy
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Rockwell Maudivin, who was an antiques dealer in Reno, Nevada.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Four months before her death, the couple visited Ruth's family
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: in Whitwell. Ruth's grand niece, Brittany, later recalled that Ruth
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: seemed different whenever she was with Guy, who seemed to
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: display apparent possessive behavior. After visiting family, Ruth and Guy
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: mentioned plans to travel across the US in search of
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: antiques because he is an antic dealer, right including stops
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: in Massachusetts. In late summer that same year, Guy returned
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: to Tennessee alone and informed Ruth's family that she had
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: gone missing from her California home. He stayed briefly with
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: them and claimed not to know where she went. Ruth's brother, James,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: decided to travel to California in search of his sister,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and here he hired a private investigator to find her.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: The investigator reported that all of Ruth's belongings had been
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: sold and that she had left the state voluntarily, possibly
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: joining a religious group. So he just spat a whole
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: bunch of bullshit. So that shit. Yeah, that private investigator
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: took their money, made a story up, and walked away
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: with hyash.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: She didn't even do the fucking job. Correct, that's a
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: piss off. Hey, that's the fucking douche canoe in a
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: half holy shit. Yeah, And so she didn't even really
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: get reported as a as a missing person then, or
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: she was also being reported I guess in a totally
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: different state, wasn't she. Yeah, she's intendsh okay Okay.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: So over the following years, Ruth was presumed or sorry
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: her home was in California, then her family, and then
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: where she went missing. So it's three different. So over
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: the following years, though, Ruth was presumed dead, but Ruth's
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: sister in law, Jan speculated that Ruth might have been
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: in a witness protection program unable to contact her family. Now,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: reasoning behind that, I'm not too certain it could have
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: been with what the PI told them being you know,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: joining a religious group or something like that. Yeah, maybe
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: things going south, who knows for whatever reason, because those
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: groups tend to have some sort of big blowout fallout,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: and then she might have had to leave the group
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: and then being a protection because against maybe the leader.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I can only speculate what her speculations were.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: So when a person goes missing or is murdered, their
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: family or spouse is always, of course the first suspect
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: investigators look at, and in this case it was no different.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: They immediately honed in on Guy who was just.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Fucking living his life, like I uh hate that.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Guy had a complex history. He was born
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: as an orphan and was adopted by Abraham Albert Zawownski
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Mudevin and Sylvia Lily Silverbod. He had a brother named
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Michael Semyon Jay Mudavin. In nineteen forty two, Guy lived
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: in New York City and attended the American Academy of
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Dramatic Arts. He married Jolene May Eloup on May eleventh
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: of nineteen forty six in Bellevue, Pennsylvania, but they divorced
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: in July sixteenth of nineteen fifty six. In nineteen fifty eight,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: he remarried a woman by the name of Manzanita Eileen
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Mansie Ray in Cootney, Idaho. Manzanita had a daughter named
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Deloe's and Mearns from a previous marriage. Both Manzanita and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: her daughter, Delo's, went missing in Seattle on April first
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty, with Guy becoming the main suspect. He
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: tried to run, but was arrested by the FBI for
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: avoiding giving testimony into their deaths. Shortly after, on July
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: twenty ninth, nineteen sixty, Guy remarried once again, to Everly
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Marie Emerson in King County, Washington. He later faced larceny
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: charges for cheating his wife's third or sorry, cheating his
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: third wife's family out of ten thousand dollars around the
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: time of his second wife's disappearance. He was convicted in
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, but had his sentence suspended in nineteen
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: sixty two on the condition he repaid the money.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, I'm still on the wife and the daughter
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: that went missing, and you've already moved on.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I didn't really move on. Gosh, did not really
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: move on, because investigators found human body parts and guy's
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: septic tank in nineteen seventy four.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, But.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: They couldn't prove they were from the missing women or
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: even tie him to the remains, so he walked free
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: from that.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Are you fucking kidding me?
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: He was also a suspect in the murder of Henry
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Lawrence red Baard, a bread truck driver, in the disappearance sorry,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: and the disappearance of Barbara Joe Kelly, a waitress in
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: June of nineteen fifty. Barbara went missing and was found
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: on the beach with a gunshot wound to the head.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: So this guy is a fucking serial killer.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: You could say that, Yeah, yeah, Okay, how.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Many freaking people did he end up killing by the
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: time he gets caught.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I mean that's speculative because he was never technically tied
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: to any of those So even saying calling him a
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: serial killer is still speculation. No, I'm doing it though,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: totally gets you. I'm on board with you. I just
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: playing devil's advocabe I or the facts. It is only speculation.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: He was never charged, he was never found guilty, he
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: was never prosecuted. He was only a suspect in all
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: of those. It's just not being said, I'm with you.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: He's a douche canoe. He fucking did it.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: It just pisses me off because it's almost like a
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: luck thing like that. He's like a lucky son of
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: a bitch that just gets away with all these things. Yeah,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: can I have a little bit of that luck for
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: something else?
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Why what do you want to get away with? What
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the fuck?
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: No? I don't want to get away with anything. I
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: just it would be cool if something nice happened. I
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: would like some luck in my life that didn't involve
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: like luck from killing.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Someone to che to sche I don't know. I feel
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: like I have to sleep with one eye open.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. She just doesn't deserve that luck, you know.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah what I'm getting? Okay, I got you, I got
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: youa like he just this is just pissing me off.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Now, yeah.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Guy eventually moved to California around nineteen seventy six, where
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: he went into retirement from his job when he was
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: at the time working as an executive vice president of
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: a silver store. He worked at a radio station in
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: a tobacco shop a little bit there after as well.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Now it was clear to authorities that with his history
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: and what they had just uncovered now with the relationship
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: with Ruth, that he was the man responsible for the murder.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: The only problem was they were about twenty years too late.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Guy had passed away in his home on March fourteenth,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: two thousand and two, at the age of seventy eight
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: years old, and he was deemed responsible for her murder.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, he is the murderer. He would though he's
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: passed so he's not convicted technically, but he did it.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: But he is dubbed Ruth's murderer.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: When okay, At first, when you said that they were
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: too late, I was just like, what do you mean,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: like that they weren't going to be able to convict
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: him or something like.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I was just picked, Well, they're not able to convict him.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: He's dead like you not.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: But like I thought, like he was. They weren't like
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: he was going to just continue being like a free man.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Oh I see, well he did though, as you said,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: he just got to just live his life. You said
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: that about like five ten minutes ago. He's just out
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: there living his life and that's exactly what he did, yes,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: which is horrible.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: But I was thinking that once they figured this out,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: that he still just got to continue living his life,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: which would be even more horrible. But it's all just
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: a beg of shit. Really, it's just.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: A bag of He's a bag of shit.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it all just sucks.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: So that is where this story ends. They found the
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: lady of the dune's name, they identified her as Ruth.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: They found who killed her, and there's no prosecution, There
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: is no resting easy. The only thing that we can
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: really say is is those two things. She's been identified
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and so is her killer. But with his history since
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four to two thousand and two, it begs
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the question, what else could he have done it?
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, like how many lives did he take?
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Yikes, Oh you know, that's just gonna make me have
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: a terrible day. Sorry, my bad, because that is just
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: like it's such a piss off really that he just
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: like I mean, we're talking about Ruth here, so like
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: takes her life and we don't even know much about her.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: But for some reason, I just have like this picture
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: of this like beautiful woman that's just like shines so brightly,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: and and like he just takes her life and then yeah,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: just gets to live on and keep doing this shit
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: that I'm sure he kept doing well. Yeah, oh my gosh.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Just yeah, yeah, I'm gonna bring up Ruth's Wikipedia here
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: just so you can see what she did look like.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Oh no, do I want to know?
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Well, you said that she sounds like she's such a
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: beautiful person, and I mean physically she she is very beautiful.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't know what she was like as
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: a human being, but we can at least take a
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: look at the photo that they have up of her. Sorry,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: if you guys are listening to this, just give a
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: quick Google search and you'll find her phone.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, Oh, I mean she's a beautiful smile.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: She is a very bright and very beautiful smile.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. How old was she when she passed?
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Then I would have to do the math. She was
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: born in thirty six and passed away in seventy four,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: so she was forty two?
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Was she?
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I believe? No? Thirty seven thirty seven?
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, my bad. I was trying to do that math.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: My math. My head is horrible. Math is not my
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: strong suit. I think we've gone over this before. Yeah,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: we're terrible at math.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Well and especially too like now you just like I
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: almost was like, hey, let me get my calculator, but
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know. You shouldn't need your calculator for that,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I guess, so I don't know. Huh, that's terrible. Wow.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: She was identified though, and her her gravestone is not
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: going to read what it did before, right, which is.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Good, very very good. And it's so like, I feel
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: so much effort was put into this case, which is
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: slightly I don't know the word, but it kind.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Of puts person at ease a little bit. It's almost, Yeah,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: they didn't give up. They kept hope even over decades.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: They were patient, and that right there is what solved it.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: The patience of the investigators, the patients, of passing it
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: on to new investigators and everyone being willing and doing
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: their job.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: And I almost hope. I don't know. I just had
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: this picture in my head that like, as they're putting
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: this new tombstone on there with her identification, right, that
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: people involved in this case are there and there and
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: they're feeling like they did like a really good job
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: and you know, gave like the family and stuff closure.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So one thing, and this is this is a speculation.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I couldn't find information on it. But
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: you when you said, like you picture like everyone laying
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: her to rest, I honestly picture the moment that they
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: put her skull to rest with the rest of her
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: remains too.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Oh whoa ben Okay, I don't know if they did,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: but I would assume that they did.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, And I think that would have been the
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: moment that really put it all together.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Huh. Yeah. I was just saying these like last little
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: ends of this, like what we're picturing and stuff, This
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: would be like kind of a really good movie.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Hey, it would be. It's it's very heartbreaking and it
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: would make a good film.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I like, her story just turned into a movie.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: And this freakin' asshole guy, I can't eve remember what
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: the hell his name was.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't need to know.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: But him, you know, and like what he's done and
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: it's quite bizarre that he was able to get away
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: with this stuff. But so many douche Canoes are able
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: to get away with a lot of things, I think,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: which is terrifying.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: And such is the world out there. Unfortunately, that's it's
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: just the world we live in. It's a scary fucking place.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: You would think, though, if they found freaking remains in
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: a his septic tank that that could be pinned on him.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't I don't know how it wasn't,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Wow. Well, I mean them, depending how much they were
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: the bodies were left, there was probably no evidence in stuff, right.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Well, they couldn't identify DNA or anything clearly because it
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: couldn't pin the remains to the missing or link remains
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: the missing women.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: So you have to wonder if like their hands and
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: stuff were removed as well, because he might have had
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: a that could have been like his.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: What calling card? Yeah, he could have pulled teeth and
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: hands from them too.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, and one more thing I just want to state
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: is it was very interesting the date that they chose
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: to release all this information being on Halloween. I know,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I almost feel like it's interesting that they didn't wait
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: today or or something because that it almost it just
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: seems like a very interesting day to release it in
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: my opinion.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: So anyway, good job.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't think to the authorities that releasing it
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: on Halloween makes any difference. It's just get the information
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: out there. It's just another way.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: When they have it ready.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so that is the case of well
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Lady of the Dunes, but also Ruth Marie Terry. Yeah,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: so thanks to our patrons, because you guys turned us
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: onto this case, very interesting one, and I'm glad that
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I got to research it, no kidding, And I'm glad
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: that Ruth got to finally be named and laid to
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: rest properly.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a terrible end, but it's
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: it's a good end as well. I mean it's it
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: ended the best way it could. It ended the best
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: way it could after terrible things had happened.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, there's other things I wish could have happened but didn't, like,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: like the douche Canoe actually being prosecuted would have been fantastic.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but well yeah, okay, there's.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Always a silver lining, and we have a silver lining.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Here, a little bit of one. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Hopefully you guys enjoyed
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: this episode, And if you want to check out more,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: you can go ahead in the description of this podcast
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: where we have all our links, but you got things
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: like Instagram, Facebook, YouTube or we're really active and Patreon
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: where you can go get the behind the scenes access
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: to all the good content. Maybe you can have your
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: say and what our next episode's going to be, so
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: you can go check it out there and if not,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: you're listening here, and that means the world twists two,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: thank you very much.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't tell until next week when it will
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: be my turn.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, I wasn't going to call you on it. Nicole's
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: finally doing a case next time. She's diving deep, so.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I am reading a book, so about it,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: and yeah, it will be it will be ready next week.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, well we're holding you to it. Next week I
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: might be doing an episode now, I'm just next week
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Nicole will be doing the episode.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: So until then, stay wicked,