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Ivan's Hill · SpeakSmart English

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Usually, you know, when we look at a map, there's
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: this expectation of complete objectivity. Like, it's just facts. Right.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Total detachment.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You see the topography, you know, the little
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: concentric contour lines that tell you there's a hill, the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: winding blue lines for a river. It's just geography.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: It exists entirely outside of us.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: We just pass through it.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Right. The landscape is just a backdrop to human action.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: But then you encounter a situation where the map isn't
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: on paper at all.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Which is such a fascinating shift in perspective.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: It really is. It's a situation where the topography of
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a place, like the literal shape, the severe incline, the
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: harshness of a specific hill, is recorded directly into the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: skeletal structure of a human being. Wow. Yeah. The boundary
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: between the landscape and the human body just like completely dissolves.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: You're talking about physical symbiosis.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly that.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Where an environment basically ceases to be just a place
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: you live in. and instead becomes this active force that
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: physically sculpts you over, you know, decades.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: And that is exactly the reality we're stepping into today
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: on this deep dive. We're exploring this profoundly moving narrative about, well,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: the anatomy of uprooting a life.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: It's a really heavy topic. It is.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: We are looking at a man named Ivan Duke, who
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: was a farmer in a Ukrainian village, and his whole
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: existence is inextricably tied to this barren, rocky hill.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Now, the core conflict here is it's devastatingly simple, but
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: also universally resonant, I think. Right.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: It's basically what happens when the land you've sacrificed your youth,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: your energy, and literally your spine to conquer, what happens
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: when it can no longer sustain your family's future?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And how do you even begin to pack up
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: and walk away from a piece of dirt that holds
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: your actual identity? Exactly.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Exactly. I mean, to understand the sheer gravity of walking
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: away from this place, we first really have to understand
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: the mechanics of how that identity was forged in the
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: first place.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Definitely. Because even Duke isn't just a farmer. I mean,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: in the village, he's known almost exclusively by a physical descriptor. Right.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: They call him the broken man.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: The broken man. Yeah. Because he walks slowly. His back
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: is permanently bent. His shoulders are low. And his face
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: is just entirely weathered by the sun.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: He never stands upright.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Never.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Which, you know, implies a very specific kind of trauma
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: because it's not like he was born with this affliction.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Not at all.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: In his youth, the text says Ivan was tall, incredibly strong,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: and he spent years serving in the army.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: So we're talking about a physically robust, highly capable young man.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Right. But returning from the military, he finds his parents
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: are gone and his inheritance is basically reduced to an
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: old house, a few tools, and this steep, dry, rocky hill.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: And it is universally acknowledged by everyone in the community
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: as just the absolute worst field in the village.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: The absolute worst. Totally. The soil is thin, the wind
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: is relentless, and whenever it rains, the water just causes
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: severe erosion. Right.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: It washes whatever fertile earth actually exists straight down the incline.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: So from like an agricultural or economic standpoint, cultivating that
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: hill is an irrational act.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, completely.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a lost cause. But Ivan makes this conscious,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: defiant decision to force that specific piece of land to
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: yield bread.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: And the methodology he employs to actually achieve this, that
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: is what physically breaks him.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: It's wild.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because he doesn't just work existing soil. He engages
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: in a decades-long process of basically manual terraforming.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Which is... Just staggering when you think about the logistics
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, every single year he carries soil, grass, and
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: animal waste up this steep incline. He pulls heavy loads
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: alongside his horse.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: And because the hill is so steep, he's constantly slipping.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: He's constantly fighting gravity.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Right, and when the rain washes the soil away, he
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: just replaces it.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: When the wind damages the field, he goes out and
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: repairs it.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: The text mentions he sleeps very little, he eats rapidly,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and he just works through the hours when the rest
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: of the village is resting.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: You really have to consider the biomechanics of that kind
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: of existence. I mean, humans are bipedal, right?
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Our skeletal structure is designed to support an upright posture.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: So to become physically bent in half, that requires a sustained,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: relentless application of heavy force over years.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: The hill literally grinds his skeletal structure down.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Every step up that incline is a literal battle
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: against the Earth's pull.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: You know, I look at Ivan and I see an artist.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Specifically, like a sculptor working with a massive, unyielding block
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: of marble. Over decades, the marble dust ruins the sculptor's lungs,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the chiseling destroys their joints, and they become physically disfigured
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: by their own masterpiece.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: That's a powerful image. Right.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: The art demands absolutely everything. It breaks the creator, but
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the creator willingly gives their body to the work because
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the creation provides their life's entire meaning.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Let's analyze the psychological underpinnings of that analogy, actually, because
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: The sculptor doesn't resent the marble for being hard.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: No. The resistance of the medium is actually what makes
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the art valuable. And for Ivan, the resistance of the
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: hill is what makes the bread it yields so deeply
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: precious to him.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: He isn't just farming. He's creating a habitable ecosystem out
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: of barren rock.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: There is this great visual juxtaposition in the source material
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: that perfectly captures this dynamic.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: How about the shadow? Yes.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: High on the hill, Ivan and his horse look tiny
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: from the village below, like just insignificant specks against the earth.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but when the setting sun throws his shadow across
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the land, he looks like a giant.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The shadow is the reality of his willpower.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: But, you know, I have to challenge the romance of
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: this narrative just a little bit.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, lay it on me.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Looking at it objectively, is this level of physical destruction
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: driven by pure survival, or is it like a toxic,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: irrational stubbornness?
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Ah, I see where you're going.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Because economics would label this A classic sunk cost fallacy.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Like he keeps investing his body into a losing proposition
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: simply because he's already invested so much. Right. Did Ivan
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: actually conquer the hill or did the hill conquer him?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Well, framing it purely as a sunk cost fallacy kind
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: of ignores the concept of topophilia.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Topophilia. Break that down for us.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: So it's this strong sense of place and the deep
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: emotional attachment humans can develop for a specific physical environment.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Sunk cost implies a desire for return on investment in
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: a traditional economic sense.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Like getting your money's worth.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly. But Ivan's wealth isn't monetary. He and his family
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: operate on the absolute margins. Everything is reused, repaired, or shared.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: His wealth is entirely experiential.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the depth of his local knowledge is... immense. The
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: text says he knows the exact shift in the wind
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: before a storm.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: He knows the precise spot where the sun disappears in
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: winter and where the birds return in the spring.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: And he recognizes the specific tone of the church bells,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: the cadence of the village songs, the voices of his neighbors.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: He knows exactly who will show up in a crisis
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and who will merely watch.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: So his poverty is absolute, but his belonging is also absolute.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: That's a brilliant way to put it. To walk away
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: from that hill is is not merely cutting financial losses.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: It's an amputation of his expertise. Wow.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the erasure of his mastery over his environment.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: The hill conquered his body, undoubtedly, but he conquered the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: meaning of the hill.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: He literally forged his identity in its dirt.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Which really sets the stage for a catastrophic collision when
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: the outside world finally breaches the borders of this isolated village.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: It's the ultimate disruption.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Right, because once you have tied your entire physical and
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: psychological being to a specific piece of land, what kind
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: of force does it take to break that bond?
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: It requires a force that completely redefines the metrics of
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: a quote-unquote good life. Right. It requires the intrusion of
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: the capitalist migration machine. And in this village, that intrusion
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: arrives in the form of a single, highly charged word.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Canada.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Canada.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: At first, it's just a rumor, right? a distant place
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: across the ocean where the land is allegedly rich, vast,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: and essentially free.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: And the promise is that a poor farmer can work,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: save actual wages, and build a prosperous future.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Which for a community accustomed to fighting the elements for
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: every single calorie, that proposition sounds completely alien.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: It fractures the village immediately.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Some view it as this genuine path to salvation, while
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: others suspect it's a predatory lie designed to lure cheap
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: labor across the Atlantic.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: But regardless of the skepticism, The psychological virus of opportunity
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: takes root.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: It always does.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: The social fabric of the village begins to tear. Houses
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: empty out. Ancestral fields are sold off to finance train
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: tickets and steamship passage.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: We see that classic traumatic imagery of mass migration. Weeping mothers,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: children staring through the windows of departing wagons, old men
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: looking back at a village they will never see again.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: It becomes a communal trauma.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: And Ivan's initial response is absolute rejection.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Of course it is.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: His logic is airtight. Based on the experiential wealth we
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: just discussed, he argues, my land is here, my work
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: is here. Why should I go to a place where
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I know nobody?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: But the external pressure quickly becomes an internal domestic crisis.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: A severe generational divide opens up within his own home.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: This is the crux of the immigrant dilemma, isn't it?
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Ivan's sons belong to a transitional generation. They have
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: watched their father break his back. They've engaged in the
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: same grueling labor, yet they remain fundamentally poor.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: And they're reading letters from former neighbors who have crossed
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the ocean, letters detailing wages and expansive land.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: They no longer want to optimize for sheer survival. They
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: want to optimize for prosperity.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Right. So the sons start demanding that the family leave.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Ivan refuses, asking why they should abandon everything they've built.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: to travel to the end of the world.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: But it isn't just the sons.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: No. Katerina, Ivan's wife, who has labored beside him for decades,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: begins to side with the children.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Because she is exhausted. Yeah.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: She suggests that perhaps life for the children could be
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: better across the ocean. And when Ivan challenges her, asking
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: if it could really be better than home... Katarina hesitates
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: and uses a very specific word.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: She says, maybe not better, Ivan, but maybe easier.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Easier.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Ivan's reaction to that word reveals the absolute incompatibility of
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: their worldviews.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: He laughs, right? Yeah. But it's a bitter, hollow laugh.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the concept of an easy life is offensive
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: to his entire operating system. Nothing in his existence has
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: ever been easy.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: His dignity, his self-worth, his literal skeletal shape is defined
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: by doing something extraordinarily difficult and surviving it.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: So to seek an easy life sort of invalidates the
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: suffering he's endured to keep his family alive.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I look at the son's desperation to leave and I
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: really wonder about the underlying psychology there. Like, are they
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: rejecting Ivan's sacrifices?
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: It's a fair question.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Are they looking at his bent back and thinking, we
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: refuse to waste our lives like that?
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Or.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Is their ambition actually the ultimate validation of his suffering?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Well, because Ivan kept them alive long enough and made
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: them secure enough to have the luxury of wanting more.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Ah, I see. It's definitely the latter, though it undoubtedly
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: feels like a profound rejection to Ivan.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure it does.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: We are witnessing the clash between agrarian intrinsic value and
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: capitalist wage-labor value. Ivan defines a successful life through connection, endurance,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and history.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Right. And his sons define it through possibility, mobility, and accumulation.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: They are speaking two completely different socioeconomic languages.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And neither side is objectively wrong.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: That is the tragedy of it. For nearly two years,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the house is just consumed by this friction. Arguments. Silences. Resentment.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: More arguments.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: But eventually, Ivan faces a stark, undeniable reality. The children
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: are going to leave, with or without him. Right.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: If he holds his ground, the family unit will permanently shatter.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Facing the disintegration of his family, Ivan finally capitulates. He
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: agrees to sell the farm and buy the tickets.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: He chooses the preservation of his family over the preservation
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: of his own identity. It is an act of total self-erasure.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And the moment that decision is finalized, Ivan's entire psychological
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: state pivots. He stops cultivating his future and becomes obsessed
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: with cementing his past.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: The decision to leave fundamentally breaks him. He grows incredibly quiet.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Every mundane daily chore transforms into a morbid goodbye. Touching
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: the barn door, he wonders whose hands will touch the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: wood next.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Looking at the field, he envisions a stranger walking across
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: his soil.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: He is experiencing anticipatory grief.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Precisely. He realizes that by leaving, he is effectively dying
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: to this ecosystem. His life force is locked inside the
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: soil of that rocky hill.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Because every ounce of fertile dirt up there was carried
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: by his hands. Leaving is an existential death.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Which drives him to a fascinating, almost desperate action. Yeah.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: One morning, he climbs the hill alone. He looks down
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: at the roofs, the smoke from the chimneys, the church tower,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: all of it saturated with his personal history.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: And he touches the dirt and whispers, what will happen
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: to you?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: He's speaking to the earth as an equal partner.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: And right then, he decides he must build a monument.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: He commissions a heavy, simple stone cross to be erected
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: high on the hill.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And he demands that his name and Katerina's name be
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: carved deep into the stone.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: We really need to analyze this through the lens of
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: terror management theory.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, what is that?
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: So this theory suggests that humans experience deep existential anxiety
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: about our impermanence. And we combat this by creating things
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: that will outlast our physical bodies, our children, or in
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: this case, literal stone monuments.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: So because Ivan cannot take the land with him... He
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: attempts to enforce permanence by leaving a physical anchor behind.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: It operates like a time capsule or planting a flag
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: on a newly discovered continent. He is demanding that the
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: universe acknowledges existence.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: The Natans look strange when they're carved, right? Almost like
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: names on a grave.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But he wants the cross placed high against the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: open sky so that people passing by will see it.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: So that unborn children might ask, whose names are on
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: that stone? And someone will answer, That was Ivan's hill.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It is a profound attempt to buy immortality in a
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: place that is exiling him.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: But I want to push back on the romanticism of
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the cross just a bit.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Sure, go ahead.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Is this a healthy processing of grief? Or is it
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: a dark, deeply morbid inability to accept reality? I mean,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: he is literally carving his living wife's name into a
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: tombstone while she is standing right next to him, simply
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: trying to pack for a new life in Canada.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: That's a very fair point.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: It feels suffocating.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not really about health. It's about psychological survival.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: It is heavy and objectively morbid. But it is the
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: only mechanism Ivan has to process the sheer scale of
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: his loss.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: The cross serves a dual purpose. It provides him with comfort,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: and it serves as a permanent manifestation of his deep hurt.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: He is externalizing his internal state.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: His heart is breaking, so he is turning his legacy
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: into unyielding stone.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Turning his broken heart into stone.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Exactly. And having built this monument for his own metaphorical death,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Ivan proceeds to do the only logical thing left. He
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: hosts his own funeral.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: The farewell feast. A deeply complex social ritual.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: A few days before the wagons arrive, Ivan invites the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: entire village to his home. Friends, relatives, neighbors.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: People arrive slowly, wearing their formal clothes, bringing dishes of food.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Their rooms fill to capacity.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: But this isn't a celebration. The atmosphere is suffocatingly solemn.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: The community is gathering to witness a severance. Everyone in
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: that room understands that they will likely never see Ivan
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: or his family again.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: The guests try to maintain normalcy. They attempt small talk
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: about the weather, the impending harvest, the livestock.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: But the trivialities just collapse under the weight of the reality. Right.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: The conversations inevitably, magnetically pull back to the journey. How
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: long will you be on the ocean? Do you know
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: anyone waiting for you? Is there guaranteed work?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: They are trying to apply logistical parameters to an emotional void.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: The tension builds until Ivan stands up to address the room.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: The silence is immediate. His voice is rough.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: He looks around at the faces of people he has
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: known since childhood.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: He reminds them of their shared survival. How they endured
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: brutal winters, famine, and sickness together. How they buried their
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: parents in the same soil.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And then he says... Now I am leaving.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: He admits he doesn't know if Canada will ever truly
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: become his home, stating, That statement.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Just shatters the polite facade of the room. People begin
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: to openly cry.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: And then he delivers his final request. He tells the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: room about the stone cross on the hill.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: He begs them to look at it occasionally, to pull
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: the weeds so the grass doesn't swallow it, and to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: say a brief prayer if they remember him.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: He finishes by saying, That cross is my grave here.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: It is an overwhelming emotional burden to place on the guests.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: He is forcing them to accept their role as the
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: caretakers of his ghost.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: It's too much for his old friend, McClo. McClo stands up,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: walks over, and physically interrupts the speech.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: He puts a hand on Ivan's shoulder and rebukes him.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: He says, do not speak like that, Ivan. You are alive.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: You are not dead, brother. You are going because your
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: children need a future.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Mikio tries to pivot the room back to optimism. He
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: utilizes the spreadsheet logic of migration.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Right. He says, maybe the land will be fertile. Maybe
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the sons will become wealthy. Maybe Canada is full of gold.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Mikio represents the pragmatic, utilitarian necessity of progress. He is
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: offering the standard justification for uprooting a life. We endure temporary,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: acute pain for the guarantee of generational gain.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: But Ivan's response to Mikio completely dismantles that logic.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Ivan shakes his head and says, maybe Canada is full
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: of gold. Maybe bread grows there without anyone touching the soil.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: But if my heart remains here, what will I do
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: with all that?
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: That is the philosophical core of the entire narrative.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I want to pause and really sit with that question
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: because it transcends the 19th century agrarian setting.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: If my heart remains here, what will I do with
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: all that gold? This is the exact crisis of the
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: modern human condition.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: How so?
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Well, today we constantly uproot ourselves for a better title,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: a higher salary, a more prestigious zip code. We move
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: to cities where we know absolutely no one. Right.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: We abandon our deep communal ties, our local knowledge, our
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: support networks.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: We optimize entirely for capital. And in the process, we
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: bankrupt our sense of belonging. Miyoko is looking at the
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: spreadsheet of Ivan's future, and Ivan is looking right back
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: and saying, the currency you are paying me in has
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: no value to me.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Survival without a soul is hollow. Ivan is pointing
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: out that a higher standard of living does not equate
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: to a higher quality of life if your core identity
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: is left an ocean away.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: And the villagers, including Miyoko, realize they have no counter-argument.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: They cannot offer solutions. They can only offer shared memories.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: And as the feast continues, those memories become a form
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: of torture. An old man recounts a story from Ivan's youth.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Someone else brings up a terrible winter they survived.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: With every story, it feels like another A thick rope
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: is thrown over Ivan, tying him tighter to the village.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: The community's attempt to honor his life is actually making
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the act of leaving infinitely more painful.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Which brings us to a breaking point. The polite, seeded
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: sorrow of a dinner party cannot contain the sheer volume
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: of psychological pain Ivan is experiencing.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: No. We transition into this eruption of raw, kinetic emotion.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: As the evening gets dark and cold, Ivan suddenly stands
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: up and leads the guests outside.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: He forces them to walk up the difficult, steep path
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: to the hill. They gather around the stone cross in
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: the night air.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Ivan touches the cold stone where his name is carved.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: He touches Katerina's name.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: And Katerina begins to weep uncontrollably.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Ivan looks out over the dark expanse of the field,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: notes how the hill permanently deformed his spine, but reminds
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: them that he forced it to yield bread.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: And he asks the crowd, so who won?
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: It is a rhetorical question born of pure anguish. Neither one.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: They simply consumed each other.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Ivan then bends down, picks up a handful of freezing earth,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and rubs it between his rough fingers.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: He brings it to his face and deeply inhales the
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: smell of the dirt.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Katerina is terrified by this intimacy with the ground, begging
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: him to stop. He drops the soil and leads them
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: back inside.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Notice the shift in sensory processing there. Up on the hill...
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: He is engaging in a quiet, tactile absorption of his environment.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: He is trying to inhale the molecular reality of his
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: home before he is thrust into a landscape he cannot comprehend.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: But back inside the house, the quiet absorption violently shifts.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Someone begins singing a traditional village song about autumn, falling leaves,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: and people departing.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: The song acts as a catalyst. The entire room fractures.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Men who pride themselves on stoicism are wiping their eyes.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Women are sobbing openly. Inside Ivan, the realization of everything
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: he is burying hits critical mass.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: The collective mourning peaks. The cognitive dissonance of being alive
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: but feeling dead becomes unbearable.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: And Ivan snaps. The song fades into silence. Ivan stands up,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: his face entirely changed.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: He shouts at the musicians, Music! Come on! If I'm leaving,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: then let us dance!
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: A profound and jarring pivot.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Very jarring.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: He grabs Katerina, who is still weeping, and pulls her
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: into the center of the room. A lively, frenetic tune
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: starts playing.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Ivan begins to stamp his feet, pulling her in circles.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: His bent, broken body is suddenly infused with a terrifying,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: furious energy.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: This is not a celebration.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Not at all. It is a man physically fighting his
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: own grief.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: He drives his boots into the floorboards so hard, it
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: seems he wants to shake the physical structure of the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: village into his marrow.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: He shouts over the frenzied music, tomorrow I will be gone,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: but tonight I am still here.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: He dances until his trembling legs are on the verge
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: of total collapse.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Consider the physiology of what is happening there. The psychological
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: pain is too immense for his cognitive faculties to process.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: It has to be expelled physically. Right. He's converting his
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: unbearable grief into pure, violent kinetic energy.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of the astrophysics of a dying star.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, a supernova. Yeah.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Right before a star runs out of fuel and collapses
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: into a dense, silent dwarf or a black hole, it
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't just fade away. It detonates in a supernova.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It burns blindingly, violently bright for one final spectacular moment.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Exactly. That dance is Ivan's supernova. It is his final,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: absolute assertion of existence and power before the void of
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: tomorrow swallows him.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: That is a brilliant framework. He is refusing to go
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: quietly into the dark.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: But consider the collateral damage of a supernova. I have
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to question his actions in that room.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Okay. What do you mean?
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Well, he forces his wife to dance while she is
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: actively crying. He terrorizes a room full of grieving guests
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: with his frantic energy. Right. Is he being intensely selfish,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: dominating the emotional space to soothe his own fragile ego?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Or is this a calculated act to leave them with
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: a specific memory?
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: It's incredibly complex, but I would argue it's a desperate
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: assertion of dignity.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Dignity over comfort.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Ivan has always been the physical pillar of this family.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: By forcing the dance, he is refusing to let the
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: village's final memory of him be one of pathetic weeping.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: He is commanding them to remember him as powerful. As
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: a man who could still shake the floorboards, even when
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: his heart was broken.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: When he finally stops, gasping for air, he looks at
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: his wife and simply says, Tomorrow, old woman. Tomorrow.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: The inevitability of the sun rising. Which brings us to
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: the final act of this tragedy, the solitary goodbye and
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the sufferance.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: The kinetic fury of the night burns itself out, leaving
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: only the cold, stark reality of the morning mist.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: It's near midnight. The house is emptied of guests. The
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: possessions are packed or sold. The rooms, which held decades
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: of vibrant life, look hollow and bare.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Ivan paces through the house, touching the walls. opening empty cupboards.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: The sheer, mundane emptiness makes the reality inescapable. Unable to sleep,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: he slips out of the dark house before sunrise.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: He walks out into the wet, sharp morning air and
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: heads up the path to the hill one final time.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: The feast was a performance for the community. This moment
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: is the private closure, just the man and the dirt.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: He reaches the stone cross. In the absolute isolation of
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: the pre-dawn mist, He places both hands on the cold
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: stone and whispers, I am going.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: And leaning against his own monument for the very first
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: time in this entire narrative, Ivan breaks down.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: He cries, alone.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: His shoulders shake. His tears fall onto the stone. He
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: weeps for his lost youth, for the village, for the
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: heavy burden of his children's future, and for Canada.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: He cries because it is a devastating truth that a
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: human being can love a place with the entirety of
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: their soul and still be forced by circumstance to abandon it.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: It is the brutal, hidden tax of migration.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: The necessity of tearing out your own roots simply to survive.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: He wipes his face and walks back down the hill.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: By morning, the logistics of departure take over.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: A wagon waits outside.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Bags are loaded. There is no music, no feasting, no
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: long speeches. As the narrative states, there was only leaving.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: The emotional paralysis gives way to the practical mechanics of moving.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Ivan steps out of the house and stares at the door,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: the windows, the roofline desperately trying to permanently etch the
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: geometry of his home into his memory.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: His son calls out from the wagon, urging him to hurry.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Ivan stands frozen.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: But then, Katarina steps closer. Ivan looks at her. She
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: is standing by the wagon, looking small and intensely frightened.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: And in that brief moment, Ivan experiences a profound emotional expansion.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: He realizes that this is not just his tragedy.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Katarina is losing her entire universe as well.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Throughout the entire ordeal, Ivan has been utterly consumed by
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: his own internal battle, his hill, his legacy, his cross.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: But standing by the wagon... His peripheral vision finally returns.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: He sees his wife's grief.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: He reaches out, takes her hand gently, and says, Come.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: It is arguably the quietest, most tender beat in the
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: entire story.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: They climb into the wagon. Ivan raises one hand toward
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: the hill, where the stone cross stands small against the sky.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: The wagon lurches forward.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Neighbors walk alongside the wheels for a while, calling out
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: final goodbyes, until they slowly fall behind.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Notice the brilliant physical positioning inside the wagon as it
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: rolls away.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, the physical direction of their gaze tells the entire
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: psychological story.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: The children are sitting at the front looking forward, their
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: eyes fixed on the road ahead.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: But Ivan and Katarina are turned, looking backward over the tailgate.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: The young are traveling toward a future, but Ivan feels
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: with absolute certainty that he is traveling away from his life.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Their physical orientation embodies their temporal reality.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: The village disappears behind a bend in the road.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Ivan leans out as far as he can to catch
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: one last fleeting glimpse of the stone cross against the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: morning sky. And then the road turns sharply, and it
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: is gone forever.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Ahead of him lies a terrifying sequence of trains, ports,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: the massive expanse of the ocean, and the total unknown
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: of Canada.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: And here is the element of this story that truly
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: haunts me. The unwritten future.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Because the narrative ends before the new life begins.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. We have no idea how the story concludes.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: We don't know if the Canadian soil was fertile, if
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: the sons found the prosperity they craved, or if the
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: sacrifice was ultimately vindicated by success.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: We only know the staggering cost of the ticket. We
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: don't know if the ride was worth it.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: That is the ultimate gamble of the transitional generation, isn't it?
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: It is. You surrender the certainty and belonging of your
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: past for the mere statistical probability of your children's future.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Makes me wonder about those children. decades later, perhaps sitting
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: in a warm, comfortable house in a Canadian city. will
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: they ever possess the capacity to truly comprehend the magnitude
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of the ghost their father left anchored to that rocky
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: hill in Ukraine?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Will they understand that their prosperity was purchased with his identity? Right.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: They cannot fully understand it because they did not bleed
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: into that specific soil.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: The narrative smartly refuses to follow them to Canada.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Instead, it remains on the hill. It concludes by focusing
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: on the enduring monument.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: The stone cross stands on that harsh incline, weathering the wind,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: the snow, and the sun.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: It remains there to declare silently that a man lived there,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: loved a difficult piece of earth, poured his body into it,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: and left his name carved in rock because he could
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: not carry the land across the ocean with him. Wow.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: As we bring this deep dive to a close, let's
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: distill the core insights we've unpacked today.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: We've explored the profound phenomenon of topophilia, how human identity
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: can become inextricably woven into physical geography.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: We've examined the brutal psychological friction between agrarian rootedness and
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the capitalist demand for mobility.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: And the heavy, often unacknowledged price paid by the transitional
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: generation in any immigrant family.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: And we have looked at the profound lengths to which
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: human beings will go to defy their own impermanence.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: The desperate need to leave a mark, a monument, a
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: stone cross, to prove to the universe that our suffering
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: had meaning.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: While you listening to this right now might not be
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: cultivating a barren rocky hill in a 19th century village,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the emotional architecture of Ivan's story is entirely universal.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Every single one of us has poured our time, our energy,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: and our heart into something. Whether it's a massive project
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: you built from scratch at work, a home you meticulously renovated,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: a deep relationship, or a local community that circumstances eventually
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: forced you to pack up and walk away from.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: We all know the unique, hollow grief of leaving a
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: piece of ourselves behind in order to move forward.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: The logistical mechanics of the separation change depending on the era,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: but The human heart processes the uprooting in the exact
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: same way.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: So true.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: So I want to leave you with a final thought
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to mull over today. Examine your own topography.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: What is your hill?
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly. What is the difficult, frustrating, yet deeply meaningful thing
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that has shaped your life, demanded your energy, and bent
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: your back?
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: And if you were forced, by time, economics, or circumstance,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: to walk away from it tomorrow, what stone cross would
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you leave behind? prove to the world that you were there?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: A vital question for anyone trying to build a legacy.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Because in the end, a map is never just a
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: piece of paper with contour lines on it. The landscape
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: isn't just a backdrop you walk across.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the land becomes the literal map of your soul.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: And the most terrifying journeys aren't the ones that require
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: you to cross an ocean. They are the ones that
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: force you to walk away from yourself. Thanks for joining
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: us on this deep dive. We will catch you next time.