Latest / One Voice Many Conversations / Crushing Strongholds #063 Kathrin Shaffer- UNPOLISHED But Called

Transcript

Crushing Strongholds #063 Kathrin Shaffer- UNPOLISHED But Called · One Voice Many Conversations

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Hello everyone.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to another great episode of Crushing Strongholds.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is a place where we turn pain into power, trauma into triumph, and a place where we get to expose the lives of the enemy.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: And how do we do that?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: We do that through testimonies of people's faith and how they have overcome the strongholds that they have been faced with.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: And today I'm excited because we have a wonderful guest who I've been excited to have come on.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm glad that she's able and here.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so this guest is a author and a podcaster, and um just a delightful, uh wonderful lady.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: And her name is Catherine Schaefer.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, Catherine, welcome in.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: Pleasure to be here.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you um as we get started here, why don't you um kind of tell our listeners like who you are and what you do?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you wrapped it up pretty nicely.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I started out as an author um and then uh kind of migrated into podcasting, and that now I have two podcasts uh the Lord led me to, and uh I'm continuing to write and just trying to be uh a testimony uh for the Lord and and glorify him.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's important that um as we walk out our our our Christian walk walk that um we share testimonies with um people that we meet.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one of the ways that we crush strongholds, like I said at the beginning, is through one another's testimonies because sometimes what we're going through or or have already gone through, somebody else is going through at that exact same time.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: And when they hear our testimony, it helps them to um overcome and kind of know what to do, so to speak.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: So um as a faith-based Christian, um, I I love following you.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like we we do a lot of chatting on Facebook, and and I know I I I did tell you this, but I I you probably already knew that I was gonna bring this up.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: But we had a conversation um a couple about like a week or so ago about um talking about um confrontation with um people agreeing on certain subjects.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's interesting how um when you're when you're thinking about this and you have a conversation and there's a conflict between shh is it okay or isn't it okay?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: So the question that we were talking about was was it okay for women to be preachers?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember that con that topic?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: There were a lot of comments on that topic.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I had posted something like a like a week or so before you had, and and uh out of curiosity, because I read somebody else who had posted the same thing, and I was really curious to see um what people thought about it because it's all over the board, like people are really not sure.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there's not a right or wrong answer almost.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's very divided.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it really depends on who you talk to.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is and and and that's where I think is the divide is because it's not clear in the Bible, because there's scripture kind of supporting one way or another, if depending on who you talk to.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where the confusion is.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So depending on where you go in scripture, there is like, well, this scripture says that God did use women, and then there's this scripture that says clearly only men are supposed to be preachers.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's this absolute divide on the topic.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm not gonna say which which answer is right or wrong because I'm still trying to figure out myself.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just know um that I'm never gonna be behind the pulpit.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, that's not what I'm called for.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if there's women that feel led to be, um that's between them and God, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna leave it there.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: I I I think it's interesting that you say that because I I have been asked to preach um for a youth uh youth group.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I just want to share this quick story.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um he came and asked me, the main pre pastor came and he said, Hey, I'm gonna be gone for the weekend.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: Can you fill in and preach for me?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, No, I'm not a preacher.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: And he goes, Well, of course you are.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: I said, No, I'm not.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a teacher.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: I teach, you know, I teach like Sunday school, like you know, I teach lessons and whatnot.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I've never preached.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: I go, I don't look at myself as a preacher, never have and never will.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Well, I really was hoping that you would fill in for me.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, I'm really thinking that you should ask God that before you ask me.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we kind of had gotten this conversation, it was kind of funny because I was really shocked that he had asked me.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Well, I really feel like you're the one who needs to be preaching that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, I really feel like you should have that conversation with God because I'm disagreeing.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it was like it was a really weird, I was it was awkward for me to say no to somebody who asked me to do something at church.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Oh my gosh.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it I had six weeks, so I I was praying about it.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: So two weeks go by and he comes and he said, So have you prayed about what I asked you about?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, have you?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because I said, I already, I still stand firm on my no, you know.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: And um, he's like, Um, you don't have to look at yourself as a preacher.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, you asked me to come and preach.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't do that.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and he said, Well, would it make a difference if I said, Would you come and teach?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I think it would.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, Well, then I I want you to come and teach.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Okay.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Let me just pray about it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I really had to pray about it because I was like, I didn't want to, you know, um overstep anything, you know, in that position.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: And and, you know, have anybody look at me like, Well, you think you're a preacher now?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I really don't.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up I ended up doing doing it.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And but I I I wouldn't do it up on the stage.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: I had them bring the podium down, so I was at a classroom level, you know, and brought it down like I was teaching.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I we changed up a couple of things, but um, and I gave a lesson.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I'm here, I want to I want to teach you guys a lesson.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: I I didn't say I didn't go in there saying I'm gonna preach the word of God today.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right, you know, because I just was really sticking to my gun, you know.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: But it was really awkward, and there's been a few times in in um my Christian walk where people have called me a preacher and or have asked me to preach on on multiple occasions, and I felt very uncomfortable doing it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't mind stepping in and helping at any point in time, but to step up to the pulpit is a huge responsibility.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yes.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: So scary.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and it is, it's very scary.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know even at my church, um, I know the pastor's wife even uh doesn't like even standing and speaking to the congregation about announcements.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like even for her, she's even uncomfortable being behind there just to give an announcement, you know, because it is like it, there's so much responsibility behind that pulpit.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: The moment you step behind that pulpit, you have a responsibility.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and that's what I think a lot of people don't realize.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: That pulpit means more than just a platform, there's a responsibility and a weight that that pulpit carries.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's not one that'd be taken lightly.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't matter if you're male or female, it there is a weight and a responsibility.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I think because the Bible isn't very clear on this matter, and yes, God did call, you know, in in the Old Testament, there's many, you know, scriptures regarding uh God calling women to do um, you know, certain um male maybe performing acts of of preaching and things like that um when men weren't around or weren't available or things like that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, so so there is that debate constantly, but um in nowadays, I don't know, like I don't know what what what to do with that.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um is it's is it a hard stance that you're gonna take on it?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um I had a conversation with a fellow um member in my church, and there was uh a good conversation we had about it, and you know, he's uh uh an older member, he's very uh learned in in scripture, and we had a conversation, and it was a beautiful conversation.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't anything, you know, authoritative or anything that he was like, this is the way, you know, and it was a beautiful, beautiful conversation.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, you know, there's some things in the Bible that are not clear, and this is where we have to look at it with discernment.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And is this something that we're going that is um a hard stance?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's some things in the Bible that you there is no compromise on, there is a hard stance in there, and then there's some things where is it something that we believe because that's how we interpret it, and but we're not going to teach on, right?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's our belief, and so I thought that was a really beautiful way of putting it because we don't know what God meant with that, because it be depends on is He calling us to that and what we believe, and that's where prayer comes in.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, a lot of prayer, much needed prayer, right?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that um we sometimes we also get wrapped up in just um the the entitlement of having a title, and um, you know, the Bible does talk about being very cautious of that as well, you know.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and that's why when I talk to people about, you know, when I do crushing strongholds or my podcasts are Christian based or I have Christian content, um people have asked me um questions about um the authority, you know, where where do where do I fit in in that authority?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I I said, you know, Jesus said, you know, pick up your cross and follow me.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: And we are supposed to be the hands and feet of Jesus.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And how do I do that if I don't pick up my cross and follow after Jesus and do what Jesus did?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: If he says to preach the gospel or share the gospel or tell the good news, you know, I mean he tells everyone, it says everyone, every man, woman, and and and and to to all nations, you know.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and if I don't do that because I want to um not step on anybody's toes in the authoritative realm of being a preacher, then I'm missing my calling.
• 10:46
  unknown: Right.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so that's another area where people go, I'm not, you know, again, I'm not real sure.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I try to just make sure that when I talk about Jesus, I, you know, I I let people know I'm a disciple of Jesus and that's where I stand.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's where I want to stay.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: You can you can think of me however you want.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: If you want if you if I'm up on the worship team and I'm asked to share a message or whatever, or um to deliver a message, you know, we there are messengers all day long.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't feel like I put myself in a position as a preacher or or minister.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not a licensed minister.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um I have uh a degree in um ministry, but I am not a licensed minister.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um just because I wanted to study the Bible.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted that degree for my my own learning purposes, you know.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um but it it wasn't to, you know, to do anything in an authoritative figure uh position.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I do know that when it comes to the enemy, we all have authority if we have Jesus in in that aspect.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that we need to look at some of the whole picture in some, you know, it's like the half glass full or, you know, is it half full or half empty, you know, kind of situation.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right with that conversation.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: But there, I mean, there's there's a lot of conversations in the Bible where where people can go there.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think the enemy wants to cause that confusion with people and um not go because um we want to question, well, you know, are will we offend someone?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it I know it does say that we need to be careful, you know, not to cause someone else to stumble.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think when you're I I honestly feel like if God is leading you, God's not going to allow you to stumble.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: For one.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: And for two, I think that um just this is just my personal take on it, that if people want to um take your words out of content, then that's on them, not on you.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, because you know, people will do that as well.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: So we have to, you know, and no matter what you say, there they'll be like, well, you know, you you know, the and and it's like um I was doing another podcast with a gal that was saying, you know, they sometimes we're often misread, you know.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: But look how much Jesus was misread, you know.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean it started right there.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because they misunderstood him, you know.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, a hundred percent.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I try not to seek validation.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: I used to have a I used to have a um a problem with validation.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: I used to want to try to be a people pleaser with everyone.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um I spent some time just sitting at the feet of Jesus, and basically Jesus said, you know, it was almost like, I mean, it was one a slap in the face for me because I I was an eye-opener.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um because I thought how insulting I I was by allowing other people to validate me when Jesus validated me on the cross.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: And um, when God revealed that and showed that to me, I, you know, obviously I repented and asked for forgiveness, but from that day on, I didn't really feel like I needed the approval of anyone else.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think that if I if I've asked to do something, I'll pray about it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: And if God leads me to do it, I'll do it.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because 99% of the people in the Bible that were chosen, they weren't chosen because they were qualified.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: They were chosen because of because they said they would go.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: They they would do it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the willingness.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, none of their hearts were were were you know 100% where they needed to be.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Especially Saul.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Saul for the Saul to Paul transformation.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's a huge one.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's massive, yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's just it, I think.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just it, right?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like the ones that are called, none of us that are called to do anything.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and I mean, and that's exactly it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody that you look in the Bible that followed, um, they weren't qualified.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: They were so far, they were tax collectors, fishermen, um they murdered Christians.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were so far away from godly, you know, they didn't know anything, but they were willing.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: They said yes, and it was just one small word.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: They said yes.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's it.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And God took the qualifications, He qualified them.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: We can't qualify ourselves, God qualifies us.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that some of the problem that we have is we're the ones trying to put the qualifications on us.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we're missing the bone.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we think we can do better because we're humans.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're still we have that sinful flesh that we always we say Jesus take the wheel, but you know, we always want to take it back.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we still have that little bit.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: We we have those little tiny fingers still gripping.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, just just let me just a little bit.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just let me uh just let me help you.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: We got this, I'll help you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and no, no, you've got to candid all over.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's really does got it.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: He really, he really does know what he's doing.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I I really think that God has so much um patience for how for I and I'm not and I'm talking about myself, but there's so many times I'm just like I'm kind of like an idiot, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm thinking he's up there just shaking his head like this all the time.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but he already took that into account, how stupid we really are.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think about that too.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, I know you're laughing up there because I'm so dumb.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm like, I know you took that into account.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, I know she's gonna mess this up, and you're probably already laughing up there.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I'm just waiting for you know her to face plant because I know I'm gonna, you know, like and he's I know you're laughing at my because I'm gonna freak out, I'm gonna just panic.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have like complete panic mode, and you're gonna be up there laughing, like, why is she panicking?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does what happened to trust five seconds ago?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: She was trusting me five seconds ago.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: What why is she panicking now?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I know that because 10 minutes later I'm gonna be like, oh yeah, I forgot I was trusting you back there.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then I had a pan, uh then I don't know what happened, and then I was like, I came to my sense and I was like, Oh yeah, I'm trusting you, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, they say you can't walk in fear and faith at the same time.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: So if you if you what you know when Peter took his eyes off from Jesus, it wasn't that he didn't have faith in Jesus, it's just that he allowed the fear to overtake him.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, and you can't do both.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: You you can't help.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that we get that, you know, fight or flight sometimes moments where um we allow the fear to overtake us.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And when we look back on it, we go, you know, we sometimes we shake our I I mean, I shake my head at myself thinking it was that simple.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: Why why was I so afraid?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Why you know, why did I have so much fear?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, God was there the whole time.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I do that more than I like to admit.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna more times, sometimes all in the same day, more times.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, multiple times.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like so many times in one day.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, why, why?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes I have to like say it out loud like, stop panicking.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: God's got it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then my husband looks at me like I'm a crazy person.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Who are you talking to?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, myself.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about it.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna get worse with age, just to let you know.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: I do it more and more because we our our our care, our care less is there.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we we could care less if someone hears us at this point because we know what we need.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: I tell my kids that I'm like, don't bother me, I'm talking to God.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, Well, can you do it quietly?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, no, I can't.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's not your conversation, stay out of it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm always talking to God.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh man, and they're like, What is wrong with you?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Oh, me and God are talking.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I mean, I feel like I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be able to survive anyway without him.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: So out of with this being crushing strongholds, um, would you mind sharing with us and our listeners um maybe um a moment or an obstacle in your life that you've had to overcome um through the the faith and the grace of God?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um that is a good one.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's there's probably plenty, um, but to share one, right?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do I know?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh to narrow down, yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um the biggest, well not the biggest one, I mean they're all pretty big, but um was probably at the beginning uh when I first got saved was trust.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I've always had trust issues.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um the only person I ever when I I learned very early on in my life that the only person I could trust was myself.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um my family, I couldn't trust, you know, family, there was no real trust there.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just the way I kind of grew up.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't really feel like I could trust um my parents, my you know, my stepdad.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was uh there was just a lack of um trust in general.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I learned very early on that if there was anything I needed, I would have to provide for that.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would have to solve the problem, I would have to figure it out, I I would have to do it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: This was before realizing that God was the one orchestrating things in my life.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a very by the time I got saved, I mean I got saved when I was how old am I now?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: So at 45, this was very deeply rooted, uh, that I was the one getting these things done.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so when I got saved, I then had to learn.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I read this book about um who Jesus is and the shepherd.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to wrap my head around that I had to give my trust, I had to let go and now hand over all this trust and break that cycle of I had to hold all this in.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: I had to keep that trust in.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I think that was one of the hardest things because I didn't trust easily.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I remember being in my car, driving home one day, and um during that time I was trying, I was trying to get into prayer, and I did most of my praying out loud in my car because my commute was 45 minutes one way, so I had plenty of time, and I remember driving home one day, and I was just talking and I was praying, and my Prayer was very unstructured.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was not fancy.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was just talking.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it was just talking to Jesus.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we doing?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you sure you didn't make a mistake?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would you want me?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm a mess.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm nobody.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I'm I'm 45.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have so much, like, I'm I'm a sinner.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I am a mess.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have done bad things for a lot of years.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would you ever want me?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not somebody you want to love.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would you want me?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in this very, very, and I was weeping and I was crying and I was like, why would you want me?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sure you made a mistake.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably the Catherine down the street you want.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she's probably not full of sin.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was very much um just breaking down.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't know if I can give you my I don't know if I can trust you.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how how do I know I can trust you?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would you want me?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, I'm supposed to trust you.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I can't even see you.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know why you do why why why is this ever gonna work?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is how is this relationship ever gonna work?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it was like it was just such a um a raw, um I don't know how to explain it, it was such a raw um conversation that it was just like I was just pouring everything out.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I felt, everything that I was just like, this is just me.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna, there's no like I'm not gonna be nice to you right now.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna be uh, you know, formal.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's no gonna be like, you know, father, God, there's not gonna be any of it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna pour it out, whatever's in my heart, whatever I feel and think.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he already knows, but you know, I'm just gonna say it and you do with it what you want.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're your Jesus, you for you figure it out.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: You let me know because I don't know anymore.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it was the strangest thing as I was just pouring everything out, and I was saying it all, and I was like, I don't know how to trust you because I it's always just been me.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um it was like this clear as day feeling washed over me, and it's it was just why not you?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the most powerful feeling, and at that moment I was like what just happened, and this peace washed over me that I was like, maybe I can trust you, and I can't explain it.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I drove and all of a sudden the tears just kind of dried up, and everything just calm, like I just this calmness washed over me.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just that one answer, why not you?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was just like, Okay.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I it wasn't even an answer, like it was an answer to no answer, but at the same time it gave me such peace, like, well, why not me?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why not me?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: What like why can't I be redeemed?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why I'm I can be redeemed.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like if if prisoners who've done horrible things can come to Jesus and he can save them, why not me?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I drove the rest of the way home and I came in the door, and my husband looked at me, and he looked at me and he was just like, What's what's going on?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I had this like I guess I had this like just smile on my face, and he was like, What's happening?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, I just had the best conversation with Jesus, and he's just like, Okay.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh that moment, I just I gave it all to him.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I gave him my trust, I surrendered to him, I just that was it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't look back, I didn't question him.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just I mean, you know, as you go walk as you get further in your walk, you sometimes you still question, you know, like what am I doing here?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, what are you sure about this?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: But in that moment, it was just like, okay, I'm all yours.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, that was um, that was uh a very powerful like 45 minutes.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I it was just raw.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: I find with a lot of people that I talk to, it's in that moment of surrendering all that brings the most peace, the peace that, you know, because Jesus is our redeemer, you know, and you know, yeah, and um he's gonna bring that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think it's funny how sometimes when we're not at peace that we forget how easy it is to gain that peace.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we we have the answers, um, but yet we don't pick up the book that gives us everything, gives us everything that we need to fulfill what we're what we're dealing with.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: And and sometimes like sometimes we'll even share with somebody else, you know, because we're listening to their circumstance or whatever, and we're sharing it with them.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: And and sometimes God's over here going, Why aren't you taking that same advice, you know?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: See you know what to do.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're telling them, you know, why aren't you why don't you do it?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and it's that surrendering all of it, laying it all at the feet of Jesus, and being, you know what, I you already know everything.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what God requires more than anything, is that we just be real and that we're completely raw, and that we just lay it all at his feet.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's the ones that try to act like um we're gonna sugarcoat it and flavor it and and and paint it up, make it look like our mess is pretty.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: That you know, because we're gonna be like, oh, but I can make my mess look really great.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the performance, the the polished, the perfect.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yes.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I and people know God's like, no.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because God doesn't want it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where that's where the podcast came from.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, as I started going through, um, you know, I started to look around when I got into church and I started to really look around and and see what's out there in Christianity.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I really start to, you know, as God started to kind of open my eyes and lift the veil and and and all those things, I started to really see the performance side of Christianity.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what is happening?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where unpolished but called came from.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Where I was like, why can't we just be real people?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why can't we show that it's okay to be messy and raw and real and talk about things that are not polished and not perfect?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And because that's not what Christianity is.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Christianity is ugly sometimes, and it's it's you know, ugly cries and the tears and the messy conversations and the the gross crying in my car where I'm not praying perfectly and I'm just laying it all out at his feet, and you know, that's what Christianity is.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's dropping to your knees, you know, at 2 a.m.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: and laying it all out.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's the hard conversation, like it's all of it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the polished prayers, it's not the perfect, you know, uh conversation.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not on that, that's the performance.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what we are putting out there for people that are new, and there's this expectation that nobody can attain.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then this is why we're losing people to Christianity because they think they're not good enough, and they're they have to look a certain way, and they have to dress a certain way, and they have to sound a certain way, and it's so frustrating, and that's um, and I'm kind of going off on a tangent a little bit, I'm sorry, but it's so frustrating to me as because I was that new Christian, and it really did keep me out of church for a very long time because I saw the legalism and the and the the polished side of things, and it really turned me away from all of it because I was like, that's not me, that's not my personality, that's not who I am.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I'm having a bad day or I'm having a rough life, I'm gonna if I need Jesus, I'm gonna roll in in sweatpants and a hoodie because I don't care.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I need Jesus, I don't need polished anything.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I need Jesus.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if that means rolling in to church to lay myself at his feet in sweatpants, that's what I'm gonna do.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because he doesn't care.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't care what I look like.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't, you know, and and we need to stop um as Christians, you know, having this like ugh, this gross mentality of we have to be perfect.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: We need to stop doing that.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to just uh encourage all Christians to come to Christianity raw and real and and make it okay and make that the narrative that it's okay, you know, and it's okay because Jesus wants us to be real, He doesn't want our performance, He doesn't want our perfection because we're never gonna be that.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: But He wants our realism.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I think you know it reminds me of um the scripture in Revelations where it talks about don't be lukewarm.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because if you're he'd re you know, he wants you to be hot or cold, not lukewarm, because if you're lukewarm, he'd just rather spit you, you know, spew you out of his mouth.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um means either you're gonna come to me like this or you're not gonna come to me at all.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: And people like to go, well, I'm gonna come to God and I'm gonna act like this, or I'm gonna, you know, and and and what have you.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: And God would it just uh it's gotta be infuriating to him, I can only imagine.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because he already knows who we are.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: He created us, he knows every hair in our head.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: We can't fool him.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: But why would we try to go to the master with a master plan to fool him?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think about that, we do that.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and it's like we go to meet Jesus, we go to sit at Jesus' feet, and we we think we're gonna tell some tell Jesus something new.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: And Jesus is like, What are you doing?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing to tell me.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: But how about you tell me really what's going on?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I already see it.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I already see what's going on.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Lay it all down.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: He wants us to lay it all down.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I've had experiences in my, you know, um upbringing, and I had one experience where I was trying to get a family member to go to this church, and it was a very um stringent, it was very strict church, and I'm not gonna call it, I'm not gonna put it on blast, but um, I'd only I went there for probably about three or four years, and they had very tight rules.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember we were told how to dress and how to act, and how to, you know, and as a new Christian, I felt like, you know, it was like I had to keep up with the Joneses in order to walk into that church.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like I had to put on the facade.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I couldn't walk in having a bad day, or I couldn't walk in having a bad attitude, I couldn't walk in with a heavy heart or burden or or any of that.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: I had to leave that at the door.
• 33:26
  unknown: Right.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: But see, the church is the hospital.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: We're supposed to be bringing that in so we get that healing over that stuff.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: But here we're leaving it at the door because we feel like we're not gonna be accepted one step further if you if you don't.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: So backwards.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: And my cousin, I was trying to get him to go to church and trying to get him to go to church, and and um he I finally get him to go.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's it was a sports night, and I'm like, hey, we're having sports night, and he loves sports.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, all right, I'm gonna get him to go, right?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, okay, I'll go, I'll go.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: And he gets there and he's wearing like a wife beater tank top.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and and he's got his thug socks up to his knees, and and he's a Mexican boy, so just imagine it.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, in his big baggy sweats, he's Mexican.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm related to Mexicans, but it's okay.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: I love them all.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I should have been a Mexican.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Tacos are the best thing on the world to eat in the world to eat.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I always say, why did God make me Mexican?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love tacos.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love tacos.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: So he's out there on the and he's outside on the basketball court, and one of the pastors went and asked him to leave because he was dressed inappropriately.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I was like, he came in, he's like, hey, we we gotta we gotta bounce.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, I gotta get out of here.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: I was just asked to leave.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, what do you mean you're just asked to leave?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: What are you talking about?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I was a teacher at this school.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was a Sunday school teacher and a school teacher.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: I taught all week long at this school.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: They're these people's kids, you know, including my own.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I was I was really furious.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: I I wasn't there much longer at that church because some stuff started unraveling.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: But um I was like, you know, I like, what do you mean you were asked to leave?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, some guy it came and told me I had to leave because I was dressed inappropriately and there's kids around, and I can't be dressed like this.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: And he had a shirt and shorts and socks on and his shoes.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh my gosh.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Oh, can you point him out?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: And and my cousin was really, you know, really hurt and embarrassed.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, This is why I don't go to church, and I'm never, I'm never going back to church again.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we leave and I go, I go to the church and I I go and I address this this pastor, and I said, It took me three months to get him to take one step into our church, and you kicked him out because of how he dressed.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: I go, Do you think Jesus would have done that to the prostitute?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Nope.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: I go, he would have said, Come and sit next to me.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're welcome here.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: I said, What?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: I go, you want to know what's wrong with our church?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's what's wrong with our church.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I was so I was really angry and I was really hurt.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I'm not anyone to tell you guys how to run your church, but you just keep on running these people out of your church and see see why it doesn't grow.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I got to say, you know?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then I ended up leaving their church because I I just it was just it was saddening to me, you know.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's and then I think that's and your church is not like that church wasn't the only one.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so many churches that forget that Jesus sat with lepers and diseased people and the broken and the people that were so sick they sat in their own urine and and he sat with them and healed them and you know comforted them.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they forget.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: They forget he didn't sit with the rich and the wealthy and the people that were clean.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, he sat with the poor and the sick.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think the sick back then were clean?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 36:47
  unknown: No.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Far from it.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when when I ran the homeless ministry um in an in a different church for two years, it opened my eyes to so many things.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it and I remember it I was it was a new church for me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: And the pastor was like, right off the bat, the very first week he's like, hi, he called me woman of God, and I'm like, Okay, you know, like, you know how when people say you're not when you're you don't you're not used to it, you know, used to certain things, you don't know how to react, you know.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm kind of like, okay, you're strange, you're strange.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Aren't you married?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Call me whatever.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: He's like saying this stuff to me.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, I love you, woman of God.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, You don't love me, you don't even know me.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like, and every week he because he saw something on me that I didn't know I was on me.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: He he saw the spirit of the rejection and abandonment and hurt and and the lack of love in my life.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: He could see that on me.
• 37:38
  unknown: Okay.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: Every time I'd come to church for six months, hey woman of God, how you doing?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love you, I love you, and I'd be like, Stop doing that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: And finally he picked, like, he literally got me to the wall, and he's like, I want to talk to you.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Don't you move all the way through the church in front of the whole congregation?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, I want to talk to you right now.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: And because he would always say this, and he's like, You're not gonna run.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna run for me.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: And he he said, He said, I love you.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I think that's strange.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, We are commanded by the Bible in the Bible by Jesus to love one another.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have to know anything about you to love you.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: I just do.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it really was like, I go, but what does your wife think about that?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, because I was like, you know, and he goes, My wife has nothing to do with loving like Jesus.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: That has nothing to do with I love her like Jesus loves her too, you know.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I go, guess what?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: He goes, My wife loves you just like Jesus loves you.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then next thing I know, everyone's telling me they love me.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, y'all need to stop this is weird stuff.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: But it really taught me to, you know, because I wasn't just used to people just saying, I love you.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, those were not words spoken to me in my life in my childhood.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: They they were never spoken to me, hardly ever.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so to hear a pastor just and to be able to see it, that I needed to hear it and to be told it and to recognize it was really huge for me.
• 39:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I I was like, whatever he's doing, he you know, he's led.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: He's got he's Holy Spirit led to do that.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because not everybody can do that to someone, you know, and get them out of that comfort zone.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: He took me about six months of doing that to get me out of my comfort zone.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: Finally, I finally quit fighting him on it.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then finally one day I said, Okay, I love you too.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then we started the homeless ministry, and then I was able to go love on people.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it was it was such an experience that I can't even explain to people how overwhelming it was to go down to the river bottoms and just love on these people.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: It was it he just showed us how to do it, you know.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, he said, we have to love like Jesus, and we're not doing it enough.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we just don't love people.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: We look at people, we don't love people.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's the problem.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're looking, yeah, we're looking for what we want from them or out of them or how they we think they should be instead of what you know how Jesus looks.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus looks on the inside of us, he doesn't look on the outside of us.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: And we're too busy doing that, you know, and and so he was a really good, he was a really good pastor.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: I was really glad I said his church finally, but because he taught me so much about that.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it made me made me kind of sad because for the age that I was at, I felt like I lost a lot of time where I could have loved a lot of people along the way that I did it because I didn't have I didn't understand the the agape love that God had.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when you become a Christian and you start learning these things, you need to think, man, I lost some valuable time that I could have been doing some different things.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, I know God meets us where we are, you know.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: I know that I don't feel I'm not trying to beat myself up.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that was I think a lesson that I had to learn because, you know, being not being safe till I was 45.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when I started to read the Bible and really get into um my walk and you know, having grown children, and I was like, oh man, I missed out, like my kids missed out.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm there was a lot of uh regret initially and guilt.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then there's the verse, you know, um, about um the what the locusts eat, right?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: You get back, right?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: He uh God gives you back.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I realized that I had to I had to realize that God had a plan.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: There was things I had to experience in order for me to now in my Christian walk be able to talk about um better.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: So God, if God wanted me to be a Christian in my twenties, he would have led me to Christianity in my 20s.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a reason that he waited for me, um, that he he wanted me to experience things in my 30s and 20s, and there was there was things I had to do, um, you know, and I I because I can see him in my life, I can see moments in where he was in my teens and my twenties, because I was not I was doing dangerous things.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I should have I should have been I should have been dead.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be honest.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: I did dumb things as a teenager, especially.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: There probably is times I should have been dead, you know, and I went unscathed, like I we did stupid things.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad we had no cell phones, just dumb.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: We had no TikTok, thank God.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, none of this is documented.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, anyways.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I can see him where he is in moments in my life where there things were orchestrated around where I was like, oh, okay, that was weird how that happened, and then magically it just solved itself.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I always thought it was like, oh, because you know, oh, I must have done something.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, that wasn't me.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Magician?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, like who, like, but in my head back then, I was like, oh, you know, oh, because of, you know, because we always call it like uh what did I used to call it?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what you put out in the universe, you always get back, and you know, all these stupid things that we said when before we got saved.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, uh, but it was God.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, really, if you think about it, these are all things that God orchestrated to get us to where he wants us to be, which is to be where I was when I got saved.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like there's a there's a direction, you know, it's like he corraled me into this place, right?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but I can see him in my life, I can see where he worked in.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Certain places, or um, he directed me in certain areas, or kept me out of dangerous places, or you know, where I should have been in that place, but something kept me from that spot, which would have been really bad for me.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, so I can see him, I can see him.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: His fingerprints are all over my life, and it's uh it's amazing.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: But um, so I I initially, when I first started walking, there was regret and there was guilt.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm grateful that I am here now and I'm able to speak on the things that I can speak on now.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I have the perspective of how I I was or how I grew up and and the things I experienced because I feel like I have a better blueprint um of my life experience.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, you know, you you don't want to wait as long as I did, or you don't want to be, you know, have all this time kind of wasted, you know.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and my kids, uh, my kids are my testimony because they see a different mom.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're in their early 20s and um they're amazing.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: They just see a different mom now, and you know, they see a praying mom and a mom that loves, and we go to church, and um, you know, they see a mom who talks about Jesus all the time, and sometimes they're like, Oh, are you talking about Jesus again?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yes, I'm talking about Jesus again.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, uh, my daughter, my oldest, is autistic, so she's really blunt about things, and uh, or I'll be watching um a show or documentary, and she's like, Is this a documentary about Jesus?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yes, honey.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Oh, okay.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: So she's really funny because she's my blunt girl.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she's very, very blunt.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she's just cracks me up.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my son is uh he comes to church and and he has actually his friend is the one that got him into church.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody that he met on Xbox.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't even know he was the pastor's son.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: He was ended up met meeting him on Xbox.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Funniest story, and then he got invited to church, so he ended up just going for the fellowship meals because he's a foodie.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you get my son to church is with food.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it started.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, whatever gets you in the door.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's how he got him in the door with hey, there's they're having a free meal.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: My son was like, sold.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then he took Yeah, so that's uh yeah, and then he was like, Hey, mom and dad, I'm going to church.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we were like, You're free to church.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how we started going, and then yeah, we all got saved.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, good that's amazing.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: I love that testimony.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's I mean, there's a little bit more to it, but yeah, that's kind of the summary short version.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it was the strangest, yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Wild.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: When I when I did foster care, I did foster care for seven years, and I would take the kids to church.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, the kids would have their visits with their families, and I felt like um God wanted me to help like repair, you know, help repair pain, you know.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: And the way you could do it sometimes is through is the reversal from the you know, the parents aren't taking the kids to church, so take the kids to church, and then they take the kids take the church back to the parent, you know.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: And um one of our one of my foster kids said, Do you think my my mom could come to church?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, it's not a s you know, a scheduled visit, you know, per se, I'd have to talk to um your worker and see what they say.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: And um, um sorry about that, I thought my volume was off.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I said, Let me find out.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Well, it's a public place, and if they run into each other at a public place, you know, they can still enter, they can talk, they just can't go anywhere or take off or leave with each other, whatever.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: You have to be mindful.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Okay, but what if it's church?
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: What if they want to invite their parent to church?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Well, that would be up to you.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want their their family with in your church?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Why wouldn't I want their family in the church?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, why wouldn't I want them to come to church?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, I remember one time the pastor said, Um, I have to leave two rows clear because Mickey brings all of the kids' parents to church.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, two full rows.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because I, you know, sometimes I'd have eight or nine kids with me and they were bringing all their families' cousins and aunts and uncles to church.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: And all these family, you know, we we had our own little family congregation right there at the church.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and you know, I just had to be careful because you know, these kids needed to be to they needed still to be protected, you know, they're in protected care.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, um, I had to make sure I was picking and choosing who got to come and whatnot.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: But but I mean I didn't want some guy from the mafia, mafia showing up.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean it came close, it came close to that happening.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I was like, oh my gosh, and and I thought, you know, if if if I could help these kids, if these kids are inviting their wanting to invite their family to church, then some then God's doing some such some good work, you know, within them.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, you know what, God, I I will do this all day long if you want me to.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it was it was a lot of fun, and it was, you know, it was a lot of work it, but it was great to see that, and I was glad that's beautiful that that door was able to be opened.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I I don't I don't think that you know we should, you know, close people from church.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think like I said, the church is the hospital, and that's where we get the healing.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: One person told me said it wonderfully, he was a guy I had on my podcast.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: He said, you know, the church is like the army, except for we're shooting our own soldiers.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, that is terrible.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I go, that's a horrible thing to say.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: And he goes, but it's the truth.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's terrible.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: He goes, We cannot be shooting our own soldiers.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: If we're the army, we cannot shoot our own soldiers.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Oh my gosh, I go, that's really a crazy way to look at it, but there's a lot of truth to what he was saying.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know, and that made me really sad.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's very sad, but it's yeah, kind of true.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: So we gotta be careful when you know, when you know, people are like, Oh, you're being churchy.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, no, no, you've actually never been to my church, so you can't stand being churchy.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, um, I I think that we want to, you know, always invite people in, welcome them and let them know they're accepted.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then and they say, Oh, well, so everyone is accepted.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, You know what, to God, everyone is accepted.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because we're all sinners.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: We are all sinners.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're all have sinful flesh.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: Look at Paul Paul, you know, Saul to Paul.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: That I mean, his his story, he's like the worst one in the entire Bible.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: And and um, if God can change that man, yeah, you know, he can change anyone.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: But it starts with you know, taking him to church, getting them into the church, you know, getting his you know, and and God getting a hold of his heart, you know, getting that seed planted.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and then he became an apostle to the Gentiles.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean Right.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like how churches.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: Look how many churches he started.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like hello.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, nobody is unredeemable.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: So exactly.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's wonderful.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: So um, can you share with our listeners um some of your information?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, can you tell us a little bit about your book?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: I I I love the title of your book, by the way.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: The rightish.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: Rightish?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: Rightish, rightish.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: I said rightish.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: Rightish.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so rightish is um my Christian ethics book.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know it sounds scary, but it's really it sounds scarier than it is.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a Christian ethics book, but I wrote it in a way that's um I I wrote it in a way that is it has a lot of like humor in it, so it is easy to digest.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do have a couple, I think, um, reels up about the the book itself.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it is easy to digest.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Writish is about what God says about Christian ethics.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it talks about like the commandments, uh, what it actually means, uh, what we should be doing, what um the word of God actually talks about, but it's really easy to digest.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a big theology heavy textbook style.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's gonna be three volumes I'm working on, number two.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the first one is the Right-ish.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the second one is coming out.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can't tell you.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still in the making of it.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh they're they're they're very convicting for me to write, so it might take a little bit longer.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: But um, right-ish is uh, yes, uh, it is it's it's it's a fun book.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually really fun to write.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I learned a lot, so it was good.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is available on Amazon um throughout uh worldwide.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can also get it on my website, Katherine Schaefer.com.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then um, can you talk a little bit about what about your podcast podcast, Unpolished but called?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: So unpolished but called is exactly what it's outside.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's kind of my walk uh through faith with uh Jesus, uh my walk with in my journey.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um we talk about kind of all the topics, anything that kind of we run into.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's about um struggles, real world issues, uh, the mess, the the daily walk.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes we talk about things we see um online, things we have um encountered.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of talk about anything and everything, uh, but mostly it's just uh me, uh things that we run into as a newish Christian or just in our walk in our faith.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's really awesome.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: I I love your covers on all of your episodes too.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_03: They're great.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_03: Did a great job with those, by the way.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um Thank you.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: So um, with this being crushing strongholds, can you share with our listeners um a little bit of advice on um if someone feels like they are struggling with a stronghold of their own and they just can't seem to overcome it um or get over that hurdle obstacle, whatever it is that they're facing?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: What what little bit of advice could you share today that would um encourage them and help them along?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Strongholds are I think the the thing is with strongholds is they're they always seem bigger when you're in them.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the big thing is that we we look at them from um a viewpoint of um I know for myself uh they always seem so much larger when we're staring straight at them, but we tend to forget that nothing is too big for God.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, God is bigger than anything that um is is attacking us or is got a hold on us or any chain that's uh got us bound up.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: God can break anything that is is, you know, um, what's the word I'm looking for?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is kind of um um is there, you know, um God is one, he's not afraid, he's he's not going to shy away, he's not gonna abandon us.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's literally nothing that God is going to leave us with and walk away from.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes I know it seems that there's something that is happening to us or that we're in that obviously nobody else has ever encountered, but God has.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, God has encountered every scenario because he's God, he already knows, he already knows what's happening.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: So take whatever's happening to God.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Pray, surrender.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um take whatever's happening to God because he is your savior, he is our savior, he can break the chains, he can break your your stronghold, he can break whatever is happening, but we we have to take it to him.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is where I know I struggle with is that we think we can solve it ourselves, but when we really look at it, um we have to take it to him because I know for myself, um there's a lot of times that I think I can fix it, but I've already tried that route, you know, for 45 years.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not a very good fixer of things, I've as I've discovered, because I have a lot of issues that I still have, but I know God can.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: God can fix anything.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and we need to just surrender to him and let go of that wheel and hand that wheel off to Jesus because that's that's who's really got us.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: God's got us.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to trust him.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: We have to let him do his work, stop taking the pen from him, let him finish our story and break those chains for us.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's good advice.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's wonderful.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so all of so with that, um, and wrapping up um to all of our listeners, um, you I will put all of Catherine's information in the show notes, um, links to your podcast and to your website and um to your book as well.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I I love the title of it because I think that we always want to do things right, but sometimes we're we don't always hit the mark.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_03: So when you when I read the title of it, I was like, that is perfect.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: So um I think we do strive to be right, you know.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we we just gotta take it for what it is.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: And Catherine, I I've really enjoyed actually talking to you face to face and having a conversation with you.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I love to talk about Jesus all day long and and um just you know, just different things, different topics that come up and whatnot.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so for all of our listeners, again, this is Crushing Strongholds.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you are struggling with a stronghold that um you are facing and you um need some advice or or want to just talk, you can reach out to myself as well at crushingstrongholds.com.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's a place for a free clarity call.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_03: And also I offer free prayer to anyone that um is in need of prayer at any time.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: And um on that note, um, Catherine, again, it was wonderful talking with you.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: I've been excited to actually to meet the face and talk to the person that we've been chatting with on on Facebook and social media and whatnot.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing wonderful.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's I I I love what you're doing with your podcast.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: And um uh we only get better, I think, in time.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: With Rory, you know, being our our coach, um, you know, he's really good at seasoning us, I think.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, he is.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: But so thank you for coming on the show today.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: I've really enjoyed talking with you and to all of our listeners.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you all have a great afternoon and we um love you, God bless you, and take care.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.