Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Dunn about his choice of Revenge of the Cybermen (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Paul Dunn about his choice of Revenge of the Cybermen (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:26
  The. The.
• 1:46
  Welcome back to a Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 1:50
  Commentary podcast. Hello, Paul.
• 1:53
  Hello and. Now this is your first
• 1:56
  commentary. How's it going?
• 1:57
  Are you enjoying it? Yeah.
• 1:58
  I'm rather, I'm rather enjoying it.
• 1:59
  Yes, it's good. First story, isn't it?
• 2:03
  Well, your enjoyment stops here, I'm afraid.
• 2:06
  Because. I'm going to put you on the spot
• 2:08
  now in the mastermind chair for you to please try and explain to
• 2:12
  the fucking plot of this story to me, please.
• 2:16
  Right, OK then. We're trying my best.
• 2:18
  So the Doctor, Sarah and Harry are on their way back to the Ark
• 2:22
  after having defeated the Daleks.
• 2:25
  When they get there, they find that there's a lot of
• 2:27
  mannequins, sorry, a lot of dead bodies lying about, and there's
• 2:32
  been a plague. The station's being kept
• 2:35
  operation by a few people as a warning to spacecraft.
• 2:40
  Anyway, the crew are dying 1 by 1, so it's not actually a virus,
• 2:44
  it's that the Sidemen have got a Sidemen out there which is going
• 2:49
  around and picking people off 1 by 1.
• 2:52
  Sounds absolutely gripping so. Far I I know.
• 2:55
  It's just, it's Shakespeare, isn't it?
• 3:00
  I believe there's another planet about somewhere as well.
• 3:03
  Yeah, so, so Sarah gets infected.
• 3:06
  So the Doctor gets the gets the the the teleport working to get
• 3:15
  him Sarah, Harry down there. So and Sarah is killed but they
• 3:21
  can't get back to the to the Ark.
• 3:23
  So now the Doctor's got to go down after them.
• 3:26
  And whilst this has been going on, the giant penis ship with
• 3:30
  the Cybermen has now invaded the Ark.
• 3:33
  So we're waiting to see what happens now.
• 3:36
  And and the doctor was shot down in a hail of cyber gun head.
• 3:40
  Bullets. Oh yes, he was.
• 3:41
  So is it. Will he be dead?
• 3:43
  What do we think? Quite early to get rid of it
• 3:47
  really. Yeah, that was a terrible
• 3:49
  explanation of it, wasn't it? But.
• 3:50
  Better than I could have done. Jesus Christ.
• 3:53
  Actually, I thought that you had quite a lot of detail there.
• 3:55
  You know, maybe you should have been the script editor.
• 3:58
  You're going to help Jerry Davis out a bit.
• 4:00
  That's right. I mean out.
• 4:01
  I think Rob Andrew wrote it. Wasn't it a Page 1 rewrite?
• 4:05
  I think it was by the end of the story though, right?
• 4:07
  If I ask you that question again, there's so many bloody
• 4:10
  plot holes, I think you'll have a lot more difficulty.
• 4:12
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
• 4:15
  Well, look, should we head in? And let.
• 4:17
  You do that, Yeah. What on earth is going to do?
• 4:20
  You know, is this the episode where they all get the cyber
• 4:23
  bombs dropped to them? Oh yes, yes, that's good fun,
• 4:26
  isn't? It the fucking enormous
• 4:30
  backpacks. Yeah, don't push me.
• 4:32
  I might go off, Yeah. That's Christ.
• 4:34
  OK, yeah. I can't see why, Aged Nipper.
• 4:37
  We both like this a lot. Yeah, there's lots of excitement
• 4:41
  in there, isn't there? And risk in jeopardy so.
• 4:44
  Comic book ideas, isn't it? Yeah.
• 4:47
  None of it holds up to scrutiny, but as a kid, you.
• 4:50
  Don't know, but then, I mean, not much Doctor Who does hold up
• 4:52
  scrutiny, doesn't it? Let's be honest.
• 4:55
  Oh no, you suddenly make me feel as if I've wasted my life.
• 4:58
  Oh, we've all wasted our lives, but you know a.
• 5:00
  Lot of money as. Well, I know it's depressing,
• 5:03
  isn't it? Let's go and watch the thing
• 5:05
  then, shall we? Let's do that.
• 5:08
  It'll make us less depressed, yeah.
• 5:11
  Were you kerosene? You have no problem at all,
• 5:13
  right? Here we go, then. 321 play.
• 5:18
  Honestly, Paul, you're so polite.
• 5:20
  Used to people being very rude around here.
• 5:22
  I could be rude if you want to. Yeah, yeah.
• 5:24
  Yeah, shut up, You. I'm going to talk.
• 5:29
  Should I go straight in on a question?
• 5:30
  Yes. And we, like I said, there's
• 5:33
  plenty to get through. Hang on.
• 5:34
  Right. Oh, it's another Phraser
• 5:40
  question. Oh, hang on to your hat, folks.
• 5:43
  Is Harry Sullivan actually an imbecile?
• 5:47
  Yes. Oh, you think so?
• 5:50
  Yes, well, the doctor said he was, and he did try to blow him
• 5:53
  up, didn't he? Or he will do didn't this.
• 5:57
  Oh, this is a great question. Fraser again.
• 5:59
  My God, he's literally inundating you with questions.
• 6:01
  Here. Well done, Fraser.
• 6:03
  We all know what this story gets wrong about the Cybermen, but
• 6:08
  what does it get right? Oh, that's a trick question,
• 6:13
  isn't it? I think it's right that they
• 6:16
  fire from their heads. So I think that's brilliant.
• 6:18
  I think that's a, that's a work of genius, isn't it?
• 6:22
  What else do they get? I don't know.
• 6:25
  They get the heads right. I think their heads are really
• 6:28
  well designed and that that's almost like we get an earth
• 6:32
  shock. Isn't it a more refined version
• 6:35
  of that? And is it right that we've got
• 6:40
  the concept of gold? Do we think gold being a problem
• 6:47
  to them is a good thing or a bad thing?
• 6:49
  Does does it stifle plot in future stories?
• 6:52
  The trouble is, though, it's like you go back.
• 6:54
  Yeah. And what was it in the first
• 6:56
  one? They were just sort of sucked up
• 6:58
  into space, don't they? No, no.
• 7:00
  They fell to the floor, didn't they?
• 7:01
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 7:02
  Oh, it was magnetism. Or something.
• 7:04
  Yeah, that's right. It's in the moon base they will
• 7:05
  get. And the moon base is gravity in
• 7:08
  Tomb of the Sideman is ice. Yeah, they get.
• 7:11
  Frozen. Every Frozen, Yeah.
• 7:13
  In the invasion is emotions, yeah, it's gold like they've
• 7:19
  always had a weakness, but yeah, it's the fact that it's a long
• 7:21
  running weakness. Come Silver Nemesis, we're
• 7:24
  literally just firing gold coins at.
• 7:26
  Them. Yeah, they just drop.
• 7:27
  They drop like flies, don't they?
• 7:31
  Do you think the Five Doctors is to blame for that though?
• 7:33
  Because that massacre scene is so good.
• 7:35
  Oh, yeah. Obviously they think, well, you
• 7:37
  know, we're going to do that again and again as directed by
• 7:40
  Jane T, in fact, so. Yes, I think it's the only thing
• 7:44
  he directed, isn't it? And like.
• 7:45
  Didn't he do something on the cursed feather?
• 7:47
  The underwater stuff? I think he did.
• 7:49
  Well, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:51
  I mean, that's great as well. He should have directed more.
• 7:53
  Yeah. Did he not want to direct Black
• 7:56
  Orchid that he could have? Heard that?
• 7:58
  Yeah. Yeah, it would have.
• 8:01
  Been sort of made for him as well, wouldn't?
• 8:02
  He yeah, Yeah. That's his kind of thing, isn't
• 8:04
  it? Yeah.
• 8:05
  Glamour and the party. Yeah.
• 8:08
  Are you ready for a Lucy McCall question?
• 8:10
  Oh, Lucy. Yes, Lucy.
• 8:12
  OK, she says. Where do these Cybermen sit?
• 8:16
  Oh, no, it's sort of Oh yeah, OK, where do these Cybermen sit
• 8:19
  in your personal Cybermen hierarchy from Mondas to the
• 8:24
  modern, more robot versions. So yeah, the 10th planet
• 8:28
  Cybermen, these Cybermen, the Earth Shock Cybermen, and the
• 8:32
  new series Cybermen. OK.
• 8:34
  You've got a rank again, I'm afraid.
• 8:36
  OK, I'm, I'm afraid these would actually come fairly low the to
• 8:40
  the bottom, so I'd have earth shock Cyberman at the top.
• 8:45
  So I love the earth shock Cyberman.
• 8:48
  Yeah, me too. I'll have the Mondeisian ones
• 8:51
  next because I just think, are we talking Mondeisian from the
• 8:56
  new era or? The original, I think.
• 8:58
  She or we count them as one. Yeah, I.
• 9:01
  Mean. It's kind of similar, but I
• 9:02
  think she means Ted Planet. Ted Planet OK, I I think they're
• 9:05
  great. So I'll put those in second,
• 9:10
  then I'll put the invasion side men.
• 9:12
  OK. Who would we have next?
• 9:16
  The moon based side men and then I think the problem with the new
• 9:20
  side man is they are far too robotic.
• 9:23
  You just think because they all sort of March in order.
• 9:27
  Yeah, yeah. So my earth shock be at the top,
• 9:30
  Mondasian new series down the bottom.
• 9:33
  I've I've got a good idea of your likes and dislikes.
• 9:37
  Thanks guys, you're really helping me out.
• 9:39
  I'm a bit of a classic boy, as you might know, I think.
• 9:44
  Our generation, I think, oh, aren't we?
• 9:46
  I mean, I love the new series. Certain parts of it I really
• 9:50
  love. But yeah, I think our heart is
• 9:53
  always going to be with fantastic series.
• 9:56
  OK, one more question and then we'll jump back to the story.
• 10:00
  James Hadwin Bennett asks. I can't believe he's asking you
• 10:05
  this. Out of all the cyber stories, is
• 10:07
  this the one with the most coherent logic to their plan?
• 10:12
  Admittedly, that's not a hugely contested field.
• 10:16
  And is it really the non cyber side of the plot that lets this
• 10:20
  story's narrative down? So does this make logical sense
• 10:23
  to you, this plan? Well, it makes sense what
• 10:27
  they're doing. It doesn't make sense why
• 10:29
  they're doing it, but. Well, they just want to blow up
• 10:31
  the planet, don't they? Yeah, I mean, do we know why
• 10:33
  they want to blow up the planet? Is it made of gold?
• 10:37
  OK but but but do the but? I don't think the Vogans realise
• 10:42
  that gold is. Well, I mean this is where I get
• 10:47
  baffled when they those Cybermen beam down and they literally.
• 10:51
  Gunned down. So if they're talking about on
• 10:52
  the planet of gold, why do they not just not sort of
• 10:54
  combustible? Well, you think you'll be in the
• 10:57
  air right past that's. Right, they're just laying
• 10:59
  about. We've been told that, haven't
• 11:00
  we? Yeah, and they gunned down half
• 11:03
  the bloody Vogue an army and no one thinks to just hit them with
• 11:06
  a gun or something like that, you know?
• 11:08
  That's right. So I mean, yeah.
• 11:11
  So they're going to blow it up basically, aren't they?
• 11:14
  And that's because I forget the details now.
• 11:17
  If there's a great cyber war, wasn't there?
• 11:19
  And they lost the cyber war because of the glitter guns were
• 11:24
  manufactured on Vogue. Yeah, out of the gold.
• 11:28
  And so this is like a Oh yeah, revenge plot.
• 11:32
  Yeah, so it's the revenge of the cycle.
• 11:34
  That all makes sense. Doesn't it?
• 11:35
  I thought they weren't supposed to have emotions though.
• 11:39
  Well, that's right. But I mean, you see them and
• 11:44
  they're sort of like in Earth Shock.
• 11:46
  There's two of them stood there and they're having a chat.
• 11:48
  What's the sort of thing? I have a chat back.
• 11:49
  Did you see last night's EastEnders?
• 11:51
  I mean what? I know he's added a very the
• 11:55
  hand gesture isn't. It I mean they stood there
• 11:58
  saying outside the leader. What a bastard.
• 12:01
  Did you hear what he wants to do?
• 12:03
  Take this bloody shit back in time?
• 12:05
  Crash it into the planet for God's sakes.
• 12:07
  He's not right, is he? It's like those Daleks and
• 12:11
  Daleks in Manhattan, you know, that are gossiping down in the
• 12:13
  sewers. Oh look, the Doctor's got a
• 12:16
  bomb. Oh, has he's been scratched into
• 12:19
  it yet? Oh.
• 12:20
  I remember when I was young. I love this beer.
• 12:22
  You know where he does the detector and makes the other
• 12:25
  side man come up? Yeah, this fits great.
• 12:31
  Oh dear. I really don't like those
• 12:32
  costumes. No, they're not great, are they?
• 12:35
  I mean. If they fell over, though,
• 12:37
  they'd be well padded. Oh, that's right.
• 12:40
  I mean. In a minute the the Doctor gets
• 12:46
  a massage from the Cyber Leader. Yes, fancy one like that from
• 12:51
  the Cyber Leader. No, not really.
• 12:54
  I mean, my Barber asked me. I wanted a massage once and oh.
• 13:00
  My. Excuse me, a Turkey 1.
• 13:03
  He just smacked me in the back so I'm not having another one of
• 13:05
  those. My Barber asked me if I wanted a
• 13:09
  massage whilst while in the story there shall I?
• 13:12
  Well, how many hands did he use? Not his hands.
• 13:18
  It's a very odd shot. When he grabs the doctor, he's
• 13:21
  sort of going and the doctor's going.
• 13:26
  It's not wholly convincing, is it?
• 13:28
  I I don't believe that I got super strength.
• 13:33
  Let me ask you another question, because you and I have pointed
• 13:36
  out things in this story that don't work at all.
• 13:39
  Yeah. Or bad moments of direction or
• 13:41
  bad designs and things like this.
• 13:43
  Yeah. Does it matter?
• 13:47
  No. Why?
• 13:49
  Because it's such good fun, that's all.
• 13:52
  That's all you want from your Doctor Who, isn't it?
• 13:55
  But I think as well, what you said earlier, it's it's that
• 13:58
  love we had for this when we were young.
• 14:01
  Yeah. That means that you as adults,
• 14:03
  yeah, you can critically say this is terrible.
• 14:07
  It is terrible, but I mean, you know.
• 14:10
  I don't know, like, like you can say that about death to the
• 14:13
  Daleks. I love it.
• 14:15
  I just love it. It's.
• 14:16
  A fantastic story. Yeah, I.
• 14:18
  Can see that string pulling that Hoover attachment out of the.
• 14:21
  Lake. Yeah, OK.
• 14:22
  I mean, if you really love something, you can overlook it
• 14:25
  some shortcomings, can't you? But are you as kind to the new
• 14:29
  series? No.
• 14:32
  Why? Why?
• 14:35
  I think it's because this is so invested in my childhood that
• 14:39
  it's nostalgic and it's like, it's comfort viewing, isn't it?
• 14:43
  Do you watch your doctor? If you watch your doctor when
• 14:46
  you want a bit of comfort viewing, do you go classic?
• 14:50
  Yeah, always. Yeah, always.
• 14:52
  Yes, generally. But I am nostalgic about RTD one
• 14:57
  now because that's 20 years I was.
• 14:59
  If I if I put on something like End of the world, Parting of the
• 15:02
  Ways, it takes me back to 2005. Does it evoke feelings of that
• 15:07
  time? That just that era, just a.
• 15:10
  Way you ruin your life at that time.
• 15:11
  And it was a good time in my life.
• 15:13
  I was sort of preparing for my wedding and things like that.
• 15:17
  So yeah. But like, you know, 2 decades is
• 15:21
  a long time. Yeah, I think it's long enough
• 15:25
  that you can have nostalgia for those first couple of.
• 15:28
  Seasons, Yeah. Yeah, because, I mean, it was an
• 15:33
  exciting time, wasn't it? When it came back, did you
• 15:35
  manage to get hold of the the illistic copy of Rose that was
• 15:38
  doing the rounds? Although I was so
• 15:41
  technologically illiterate that I could only listen to it rather
• 15:44
  than watch it. I remember listening to the
• 15:47
  soundtrack going what the hell is this?
• 15:50
  There's dreadful music, it can't be just about this girl.
• 15:53
  Like I was wrong but. Yeah.
• 15:59
  See, now look here, we're on the vulgar, right?
• 16:01
  Yeah, we're about to have all out war with loads of guns,
• 16:05
  Cybermen shooting down lots of people.
• 16:07
  People strapped to bombs. I mean, there's lots happening.
• 16:11
  Yeah, there's a lot of excitement, isn't there?
• 16:13
  And actually, and that's quite unusual for a Part 3, it's
• 16:15
  usually they tend to drag a bit, don't they, A part.
• 16:18
  Three. Normally you get all the
• 16:19
  exposition in Part 3, don't you? We've done that.
• 16:21
  Yeah, yeah, we're just so we're just dare and do now, isn't it?
• 16:25
  Just in that poor assignment who had to duck underneath.
• 16:27
  Yeah, like actually. I've got a question.
• 16:32
  Go on. Now how do the Vogons reproduce?
• 16:37
  Because I've not seen a woman yet.
• 16:38
  Oh, we've done what? A question.
• 16:41
  That's the sort of thing I expect from Fraser Gregory.
• 16:45
  But I mean, the the thing I mean this is this is typical Holmes
• 16:48
  and Hinchcliffe. That's not the only woman I.
• 16:50
  See what you're saying? The only woman we got in here is
• 16:54
  this. I see what you're saying.
• 16:57
  Well, well, I mean, do we know they're all men?
• 17:00
  They might just be. Very vastly looking women sort
• 17:03
  of spoke like a bloke so. Well, it doesn't surprise me
• 17:06
  that all the men are in positions of power.
• 17:08
  It looks like a sexist sort of place.
• 17:10
  Yeah. I mean, you don't think I don't
• 17:12
  have to? I'm almost too scared to say
• 17:14
  this, that all the women are at home sort of dusting the gold
• 17:18
  goblets and things. I mean, do you think they've got
• 17:22
  like in their homes, they've got like gold sofas and yes, gold
• 17:26
  lavatories and have. You ever watched Star Trek?
• 17:30
  Yes. Yeah, for St.
• 17:31
  Space 9, yeah, you've been to Frankenaar where it's all sort
• 17:35
  of gold and yeah, I feel. Imagine that would be like that.
• 17:37
  Yeah, like that. Yeah.
• 17:38
  You know, sort of hideous. That's right.
• 17:42
  Golden hue to everything. Oh, you get so bored with it.
• 17:45
  Do they all live in these caves, I mean, or do have they all got
• 17:48
  like little alcoves they live in, I mean.
• 17:51
  Yeah, it isn't the best defined alien.
• 17:54
  Race. No, I mean there's not a lot of
• 17:55
  wool field in there, is there? I.
• 17:57
  Think, think of like Rebos, where we go into the souks and
• 18:00
  the slums and the palaces and all of that, you know, so homes
• 18:06
  can do it. He's choosing not to do it here.
• 18:13
  Oh dear. What's going on?
• 18:15
  Politicking. There I mean.
• 18:19
  Yeah, do you know what as well? I mean, I don't want to say
• 18:22
  they're all ugly, but oh, they are ugly those vocons, aren't
• 18:25
  they? Well, they're not lookers, are
• 18:27
  they? I mean.
• 18:27
  Look at that man there behind Kalman.
• 18:29
  You what have he started romancing you?
• 18:30
  I love Jesus Christ. Probably give you a nightmare,
• 18:33
  wouldn't he? How's he waking up in the
• 18:35
  morning, CNN? Have you ever been catfished by
• 18:37
  a Vogon? No, no, thank God.
• 18:40
  I mean, I was catfished once. He really looked as bad as that
• 18:44
  Vogon, if I'm honest. Oh.
• 18:45
  Dear, was it a second date then? I'm going to I'm going to take
• 18:50
  you out. And he sent a picture.
• 18:51
  Very beautiful man, dark hair because I'm going to bring
• 18:55
  strawberries and champagne. We're going to go up downs for a
• 18:57
  lovely picnic. We turned up.
• 19:00
  He was about 10 stone heavier than his picture and he was
• 19:04
  bald. I was like, OK, how old was that
• 19:08
  picture you sent me? And he's like, oh God, it was
• 19:11
  such a bad date, Paul, I can't even describe.
• 19:14
  It why do people do that? Because I mean, it's quite
• 19:16
  clearly when you get there, you're.
• 19:17
  Right, exactly. I mean, what's the worst?
• 19:21
  I'm going to ask you this. What's the worst date you've
• 19:22
  been on? Come on while we're sharing.
• 19:27
  Well, no, this, this isn't the worst date, but I, when I was at
• 19:32
  catering college, I was seeing a young lady and so I, so, you
• 19:37
  know, we all progressed and we did sort of like a year and a
• 19:42
  year and a half. Anyway, she came home one night
• 19:45
  and she came home 1 evening and, you know, we'd been out and
• 19:48
  about and she was like, and she said, I'd like to watch, watch
• 19:52
  one of your Doctor Who's. Oh.
• 19:53
  God deal breaker. Go on.
• 19:56
  So what do you think I got out to watch?
• 19:59
  Oh please, something good. Oh, don't tell me you put Delta
• 20:01
  and the Ballamen on, please. No, no, no.
• 20:05
  What she needed to see was mind walk.
• 20:09
  Why? I don't know, but we didn't go
• 20:12
  for much longer. Bless her for wanting to figure
• 20:17
  out, you know what this passion. Is.
• 20:19
  I mean what? Why the hell did I show her
• 20:20
  that? Of all the things I could have
• 20:22
  shown. I mean, you could have shown her
• 20:23
  remembrance of the Daleks or something like that.
• 20:25
  I could have done but you. Know I showed my ex-husband the
• 20:28
  first one I showed him was resurrection of the Daleks and
• 20:31
  he went are they all as excited as this?
• 20:33
  Let's watch another one. What do you got on is your
• 20:35
  second? Remember it's of the Daleks.
• 20:38
  He loved that one as well. I thought I did all the sort of
• 20:41
  Daleks stories 1st and then yeah, he sort of lost interest
• 20:45
  but watched all the new series. Did did he manage to get as far
• 20:48
  as time lash? I think he did he watch Time
• 20:53
  Lash. I can't remember.
• 20:55
  We were together 16 years. He watched a lot of Doctor Who.
• 20:59
  When we got divorced. It was so funny.
• 21:01
  He went, look, you know, not being in a relationship with
• 21:06
  you, all right, that's probably bad enough.
• 21:09
  But I'm leaving this relationship with all this
• 21:11
  useless information about Doctor Who I'll never forget.
• 21:15
  So sorry about that, you know. I don't think it'll ever be of
• 21:18
  any use twin but. No, you've never tried to seduce
• 21:21
  anyone with Doctor Who then? No, no, it's it's I learned my
• 21:25
  lesson. I have to show him my warp.
• 21:29
  Oh God, right, we're on the boat with Liz.
• 21:32
  Oh, oh, this is where she might have drowned.
• 21:36
  Sorry, there was us talking about dates and romantic history
• 21:39
  and all this excitement has been going on.
• 21:41
  I know, I know. You know how these commentaries
• 21:44
  go, you know. Yeah, yeah, you can go off
• 21:45
  Peace. Sometimes, you know these Fogans
• 21:49
  aren't having a great time of it.
• 21:51
  They're not. I mean, yeah, here we go.
• 21:55
  What I find impressive as well in this Part 3 is a lot of the
• 21:59
  location workers here a lot of the time because.
• 22:01
  Studio part what isn't it usually?
• 22:03
  One, yeah. I mean, the location he's, he's
• 22:09
  a better director, isn't he, on film than he is in the studio.
• 22:12
  Although I think his best direction is Robots are Deaf.
• 22:15
  Yeah, and that's all Studio. Yeah, that is all studio, you're
• 22:18
  right. But do.
• 22:18
  You remember those shots in episode 1 of Death to the Daleks
• 22:21
  where Sarah's running through the fog in the silhouette?
• 22:24
  Gorgeous. Yeah, lovely.
• 22:28
  I do like the bit in Death to the Daleks as well.
• 22:31
  You know, when after after the the roots come out the water and
• 22:36
  attack by Exelon and set him on fire.
• 22:38
  And then all the Daleks just start looking at each other like
• 22:41
  Oh my God. Let's get going.
• 22:45
  Yeah, I it is nice as well because we've got 3 Cybermen.
• 22:49
  There's clearly only three Cybermen, but there's three
• 22:53
  Cybermen. Yeah, and there's two Cybermen
• 22:56
  on it, so we're given the impression there's 5.
• 23:00
  Yes. Why does Voris want to blow up
• 23:05
  the wheel the the the Ark? Isn't that because he knows from
• 23:11
  Counter that they, well, it'd be too late now anyway, wouldn't
• 23:16
  it? Because they've sent the bombs
• 23:17
  down there. But is it just because he
• 23:19
  doesn't like outsiders, he thinks?
• 23:21
  Yeah, I think he's just just sort of like old and doesn't
• 23:25
  like doesn't want change and and he just doesn't want outsiders
• 23:29
  coming down. I assume on their question it's
• 23:32
  going going down. He was a bit of a dictator, you
• 23:36
  know, He sort of wanted to roll with an iron fist.
• 23:39
  Yeah. Going down.
• 23:42
  I beg your pardon? When they were going down the
• 23:44
  rocket, weren't they? Good grief.
• 23:46
  I mean, talk about jumping in head first on your first
• 23:48
  commentary. Well, I know.
• 23:50
  I can't help myself. People say it's me, you know,
• 23:54
  but I didn't start any of this. No, no, But you, you sort of did
• 23:59
  recently, didn't you? Wow.
• 24:00
  You set the tone. You.
• 24:02
  Listen to the first few. They're all very sort of, you
• 24:04
  know, academic. What happens?
• 24:08
  Well, you're not going to get my high brow with me, so you know.
• 24:11
  No. Well, or me, if I'm honest.
• 24:14
  Dear, I dear. Oh hang on, what the cliffhanger
• 24:17
  here? Is it that all the rocks going
• 24:19
  down onto the Doctor? Yes, it is.
• 24:21
  Because then Harry, because Harry does well, that's why
• 24:24
  Harry is an imbecile, isn't it? Because he pushes all the rocks,
• 24:26
  The Doc, because he's the other side and the doctor goes down
• 24:29
  and he's going to take his thing off, isn't he?
• 24:30
  But he's going to take the bomb off.
• 24:32
  Why do they keep trying to suggest the Doctor's dead like
• 24:37
  it's exciting though it is? Exciting.
• 24:39
  It's exciting. Like I TV literate me doesn't
• 24:46
  deserve this sort of Doctor Who. 5 year old me deserves this sort
• 24:50
  of Doctor Who because I I wouldn't be sitting there going
• 24:53
  oh wow the direction ain't too great and I just be going my God
• 24:56
  Doctor Who has fallen down and he's covered in rocks.
• 25:01
  It's Doctor. Who for children?
• 25:02
  Paul? Sorry, it's Doctor Who for
• 25:04
  children. It's for a family audience.
• 25:10
  What does that mean though? Well, that means that all we all
• 25:13
  of a sudden all can sit and watch your children's programme.
• 25:18
  Is it like reading Harry Potter with the adult covers?
• 25:21
  Yes. That's right.
• 25:22
  OK, yeah, it means we don't have to grow up.
• 25:26
  Spot on, spot on. But I mean, but we do doubt.
• 25:30
  I mean, this is part of the fun, isn't it?
• 25:32
  Because we're interested in how it was made and we know all the
• 25:36
  background to it. And you, you know so but.
• 25:39
  That wasn't our original win, was it?
• 25:42
  No, but I mean, once you know it so well, you want to know more,
• 25:45
  don't you? What, So like my original win
• 25:47
  was just that they were exciting stories, you know, And I think
• 25:51
  the thing that really captured me was the fact that it could go
• 25:56
  anywhere past, present, future alien planets.
• 25:59
  So I could never predict. Every time I got a new video, I
• 26:02
  had no clue where what where I was going in the universe.
• 26:06
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those.
• 26:09
  It was just magical to see the TARDIS landing somewhere new and
• 26:13
  you know who they were going to meet and what was going to
• 26:15
  happen. I can't believe I'm going to ask
• 26:18
  you this question, but I am, because like we've talked about
• 26:21
  critical faculties when you were a kid, what was the first one
• 26:24
  you watched where you went? Yeah, that one.
• 26:27
  Very good. Oh, oh, let me think, John.
• 26:35
  It was quite late for me, I think.
• 26:37
  What was yours then? I think it might have been
• 26:39
  Paradise Towers. I remember watching that and
• 26:44
  going, oh, and seeing Richard Bryers.
• 26:45
  And I really quite enjoy Paradise Towers now
• 26:48
  intellectually. But at the time I remember I
• 26:50
  think my family were watching with me and I was just deeply
• 26:53
  embarrassed because they were all taking the piss.
• 26:56
  Well, if we talk about the most embarrassing moment, I was sat
• 27:00
  watching Doctor Who Battlefield episode 1 when Sophie Aldridge
• 27:04
  goes and I like and I just could have the floor could have just
• 27:11
  opened up. What?
• 27:12
  Was all your family there? Yeah, well, Mum and Dad were
• 27:15
  there and you know, it's just you.
• 27:18
  What is it when you're watching Doctor Who?
• 27:21
  Someone will come in at the shittiest bit.
• 27:24
  Always, always. I used to try and like, have it
• 27:27
  on pause for a great moment and then when I could hear my mum
• 27:30
  coming down the stairs I'd press play really quickly, you know?
• 27:32
  Oh, she'll love this bit. Nah, she still laughed.
• 27:37
  I know. But do do you think?
• 27:39
  I mean we'd sit and watch OK Sam design.
• 27:42
  I think this is an absolute classic, brilliant bit of drama.
• 27:46
  And then and then you'd watch time lash and that's not so
• 27:51
  good. But to to the not we.
• 27:54
  Do you think they it just looks all the same to them?
• 27:57
  I think so. I think it just now all of
• 27:59
  classic hoochie sorts, like ancient television.
• 28:02
  Yeah, yeah. Because because TV is so
• 28:04
  polished and so cinematic, now, all of this is going to look
• 28:08
  like just. Going to look some out of the
• 28:10
  arc, isn't it end? Of the Pier TV.
• 28:12
  Yeah. Yeah, I think that is true.
• 28:15
  But I think we're in a better position to be able to see the
• 28:20
  differences. Yeah.
• 28:22
  The most shocking one for me was when I showed an ex-boyfriend
• 28:26
  talent Wing Chai Yang and time in the Ronnie and He.
• 28:30
  He said yeah. Time in the Ronnie, he went.
• 28:34
  That was a much more polished sort of bit of telling.
• 28:36
  I was like it was. Really.
• 28:41
  Bless him. Mind you, he was Asian.
• 28:43
  Can you imagine watching talent? He asked me to turn it off,
• 28:48
  actually. Halfway through.
• 28:49
  Oh dear. He said.
• 28:52
  When was this made? In the 30s?
• 28:54
  No, the 70s. Oh God, it's.
• 28:58
  Well, they're going to Oh, Harris is not.
• 29:03
  Yeah, say, look, all of this, this is very exciting stuff.
• 29:07
  Why'd you I even remember in episode 4, you know, terrible
• 29:11
  effects of them going round the planet.
• 29:14
  Yeah, somebody sort of turning the handle up.
• 29:16
  It was so exciting though, I was so excited.
• 29:21
  Christopher Robbie. The CARC is no less.
• 29:24
  Yeah. Oh what?
• 29:27
  I am at your command. Oh yeah, the very same.
• 29:30
  Number 64, what a great role. Brilliant.
• 29:36
  Do you think do you think he was miscast?
• 29:41
  Soberly what? Do you think this is so?
• 29:43
  You know, David. No, no, I mean no, he, he,
• 29:47
  that's not the soberly we've come to.
• 29:50
  He's so David Banks, is he? Let's be honest.
• 29:52
  I mean who he is, so, you know, yeah.
• 29:55
  Yeah, no, I mean, he's, yeah, he's just too camp, isn't he
• 29:59
  really? I mean, I don't mind camp, but
• 30:01
  you want your cyber leader to be he sort of.
• 30:03
  Puts his hands on his. Hip.
• 30:04
  Yeah, yeah, that's right. And declares his intentions.
• 30:07
  I thought you're going to do the Time War when he starts all
• 30:09
  that. Do you know which side man I
• 30:12
  love? You know the one who goes?
• 30:13
  He's a bit sort of catty and goes in Five Doctors, you know?
• 30:17
  Oh, I have found the ones from the TARDIS.
• 30:19
  He's my favorite. He's very pleased with himself,
• 30:23
  isn't he? He's a.
• 30:23
  Cyber Lieutenant, I'm not too sure.
• 30:25
  Could be. Is that Mark Hardy?
• 30:27
  I think it is, yeah. He might have been a bit mincy,
• 30:31
  you know, between scenes. Well, look, I know, I know.
• 30:36
  We pushed away from Revenge a little bit there to talk about,
• 30:39
  well, how we were much better critics as children.
• 30:44
  But OK, well should we try and stay Revenge focused for
• 30:48
  episodes? We will because it's all going
• 30:49
  to get very exciting and. You are going to have to give me
• 30:52
  your free fabulous things at the end.
• 30:56
  Oh shit, I've got to think up free as well.
• 30:58
  All right, I'll get my hat on. Right, yeah, then I'll.
• 31:02
  Cut it there.