Latest / Teacher Approved: Elementary Teacher Tips & Strategies / 227. 5 Smart Ways to Respond to Student Work Refusal
Transcript
- 0:00Heidi: This is episode 227 of Teacher Approved.
- 0:06You're listening to Teacher Approved, the podcast helping
- 0:09educators elevate what matters and simplify the rest. I'm
- 0:12Heidi.
- 0:13Emily: And I'm Emily. We're the creators behind Second Story
- 0:16Window, where we give research based and teacher approved
- 0:19strategies that make teaching less stressful and more
- 0:22effective. You can check out the show notes and resources from
- 0:25each episode at secondstorywindow.net.
- 0:28Heidi: We're so glad you're tuning in today. Let's get to
- 0:31the show.
- 0:36Emily: Hey there. Thanks for joining us today. In today's
- 0:39episode, we are sharing practical strategies for
- 0:41handling student work refusal, and we have a teacher approved
- 0:45tip for creating a simple prevention checklist you can use
- 0:49during lesson planning.
- 0:50Heidi: Let's start with a try it tomorrow, where we share a quick
- 0:53win that you can try in your classroom right away. Emily,
- 0:55what's our suggestion for this week?
- 0:57Emily: This week try the Choice to Skip strategy. So when you're
- 1:00giving an assignment with multiple problems or questions,
- 1:03tell your students that they can choose one to skip. You might
- 1:07say something like, everyone needs to do problems five and
- 1:09eight, but you can choose one of the other problems to skip.
- 1:12Heidi: We know that this sounds counterintuitive, but giving
- 1:15kids permission to skip something often makes them way
- 1:18more willing to tackle the rest.
- 1:20Emily: I know, it's such a good strategy. So if you like this
- 1:23idea or anything else we share here on the podcast, we would
- 1:25appreciate it so much if you would take a second and give us
- 1:28a five star rating and review in your podcast app.
- 1:31Heidi: Alright, let's talk about one of those classroom moments
- 1:35that can make or break your day. That is when a student just will
- 1:39not work.
- 1:41Emily: Yeah, we all know how it goes. You've taught a great
- 1:44lesson, given clear directions, and most kids are happily
- 1:47working away. But there's that one student, or, you know, maybe
- 1:51a few, that are sitting there with their arms crossed,
- 1:53scribbling on their paper or finding every possible way to
- 1:57avoid the task.
- 1:59Heidi: As a teacher, this is so triggering, it feels personal
- 2:03like they are provoking us on purpose. And I'm not fully
- 2:07convinced that they're not.
- 2:09Emily: Right. But if you only remember one thing from today's
- 2:12episode, we want you to remember this, work refusal is
- 2:15communication.
- 2:17Heidi: And even if it feels like what they're communicating is
- 2:21defiance, I promise that it is much more than that. These kids
- 2:25are telling us something, and it's our job, as the grown up,
- 2:29unfortunately, to figure out what that something is.
- 2:32Emily: And that does not mean that it is not frustrating, but
- 2:35that does mean there's a lot we can do about it. And let's start
- 2:38with the single most effective way to deal with work refusal,
- 2:41and that is to prevent it from starting in the first place.
- 2:44That is basically our behavior management mantra. What can we
- 2:47do to stop it before it starts?
- 2:49Heidi: And with work refusal, that really comes down to this.
- 2:52Are your lessons clear, engaging, and broken down in a
- 2:56way that supports student success?
- 2:58Emily: And we promise this can be much simpler than it may
- 3:01sound. It just means asking yourself, am I giving students
- 3:04enough opportunities to do the work with me before I expect
- 3:07them to do it on their own? The more you build that in, the less
- 3:11likely you are to hit a wall of refusal when it's time for
- 3:13independent practice.
- 3:15Heidi: Now this doesn't mean that you have to hand out a
- 3:17worksheet mid lesson for your students to work on. There are
- 3:21lots of quick and easy ways to get students thinking and doing
- 3:24while you're teaching, without having to get out paper and
- 3:27pencil.
- 3:28Emily: If you want lots of examples, go back and check out
- 3:30episode 161 where we talked about how to add active
- 3:34responses to any lesson using choral response, signals, signs,
- 3:39writing, and technology.
- 3:41Heidi: Now, hopefully this single step of preparing
- 3:44engaging lessons magically solves all of your work refusal
- 3:47problems before they start.
- 3:49Emily: Yeah, please, fingers crossed.
- 3:51Heidi: And to help you with that task, at the end of this
- 3:54episode, we have a quick checklist that we'll share that
- 3:58you can use to evaluate any lesson before you teach it.
- 4:01Emily: Okay, but let's be honest, even the best, most
- 4:03engaging lesson isn't going to prevent every instance of work
- 4:07refusal. Sometimes what worked great yesterday may totally flop
- 4:10today.
- 4:11Heidi: So let's get you set up with a toolbox for what to do
- 4:14when, despite your best efforts, work refusal shows up anyway.
- 4:18The first tool is to understand what not to do.
- 4:22Emily: Yeah, we want to avoid the "don'ts" that can take a
- 4:25rough moment and turn it into a full scale disaster.
- 4:30Heidi: But if you see yourself in any of these, please be
- 4:33gentle with yourself, because it is so easy for this to happen.
- 4:36When kids refuse to work, it triggers some pretty strong
- 4:39emotions, and our first instinct might be to double down or to
- 4:43start threatening consequences, but don't get caught in a power
- 4:47struggle.
- 4:48Emily: Right. A power struggle is the absolute least helpful
- 4:51solution to this problem. We are after cooperation, not
- 4:54compliance. The moment it becomes a battle of wills,
- 4:57everybody loses.
- 4:59Heidi: Our second "don't" is don't punish, especially by
- 5:03taking away recess. Kids need that movement, and the break
- 5:06time, and taking it away will likely cause more problems later
- 5:09in the day, not fewer.
- 5:12Emily: And don't assume students are being lazy or difficult on
- 5:14purpose, even if it seems like 100% that is what is happening.
- 5:19There is usually something else going on.
- 5:21Heidi: Now, in desperate moments, we know it can be so
- 5:24tempting to resort to bribes, something like, if you just do
- 5:28this page, you can have extra computer time, but don't do
- 5:31this. Bribes will work in the moment, but they're not solving
- 5:36the underlying issue, and they can actually make work refusal
- 5:38worse over time.
- 5:40Emily: The last "don't" might be the most important. Don't react
- 5:44out of frustration. When you feel that emotional reaction
- 5:47rising up, you know, the irritation, the anger, pause and
- 5:51take a breath before you respond. Regulate yourself
- 5:54first, because whatever you do next will either help the
- 5:56situation or make it a whole lot harder.
- 5:59Heidi: And really, we know it is so easy to feel triggered in
- 6:02this moment. So please, if you have experienced any of these
- 6:05"don'ts" in the past, be kind to yourself, because we have all
- 6:09done it. Probably we've all done a whole combination of those.
- 6:13Emily: Yeah, in tough moments, we don't always respond as the
- 6:15best version of ourselves. And I can, like, just feel my blood
- 6:18pressure rising just talking about this and remembering what
- 6:21it feels like in these moments where you want to just get into
- 6:24it, like, no, no, you are going to do it, because I said so. But
- 6:28now that you have got some clarity about how work refusal
- 6:31might trigger you, remind yourself to pause and breathe
- 6:34before reacting in the future.
- 6:36Heidi: And then once you have avoided that minefield of
- 6:39don'ts, you're in a much better place for the next step in
- 6:42managing work refusal, which is to get curious.
- 6:46Emily: Remember, work refusal is communication, like we said.
- 6:49Every time a student refuses, they're telling you something,
- 6:51even if it's coming out sideways through crossed arms and
- 6:56dramatic size. Our job isn't to win the battle. It's to figure
- 7:00out what's going on underneath.
- 7:03Heidi: When you are 10 minutes into writing time and one kid
- 7:05still hasn't picked up a dang pencil, shift your focus. Try
- 7:09pretending you're a doctor, and challenge yourself to evaluate
- 7:12this patient. Start by asking yourself, what might this
- 7:16behavior be trying to say, and what does the student need right
- 7:19now?
- 7:20Emily: If one student is refusing to write their
- 7:22persuasive essay because they had a fight at recess, and
- 7:25another is refusing because they don't understand the assignment,
- 7:28they need completely different responses from you.
- 7:31Heidi: So try running through a list of diagnostic questions.
- 7:34Does the student have the academic skills to complete this
- 7:37task? Maybe the directions don't click, or maybe they're missing
- 7:40background knowledge. What looks like defiance might actually be
- 7:43a quiet panic.
- 7:45Emily: And sometimes the issue is attention, not ability. Look
- 7:48around the environment. Is it too noisy or distracting? Is the
- 7:52student dealing with something outside of school that makes
- 7:55focusing nearly impossible in the moment? Maybe their little
- 7:58world is crumbling, and the last thing they have the bandwidth
- 8:01for is writing a persuasive essay.
- 8:03Heidi: Also consider if the student actually knows how to
- 8:06get started. This is an executive functioning challenge.
- 8:09The student might have the right understanding, but planning out
- 8:12the steps feels overwhelming, so they just shut down instead.
- 8:16Emily: And don't forget basic needs. Are they hungry, tired,
- 8:19uncomfortable? Nobody can do their best work if their body is
- 8:22struggling.
- 8:23Heidi: Now, if you can't diagnose the problem from the
- 8:25outside, just try asking the student what they need in order
- 8:28to get started. When you approach with curiosity instead
- 8:32of judgment, the student feels seen instead of shamed, and that
- 8:35really changes everything.
- 8:37Emily: And curiosity also gives you options. If it's a skill
- 8:40issue, you can scaffold. If it's planning, you can break down the
- 8:43task into smaller steps. If it's focus, you can offer a quick
- 8:47regulation break.
- 8:49Heidi: So instead of asking, why won't they just do this work,
- 8:52flip it to what's getting in their way right now, and how can
- 8:56I help clear that path?
- 8:58Emily: Of course, kids can't always articulate what's wrong,
- 9:01and you'll likely get a response like nothing, or, I don't know.
- 9:05Heidi: And when that happens, use your past history with the
- 9:08student to make your best guess about whether the problem is
- 9:11academic, emotional, or environmental. Then once you
- 9:14have a theory about what's going on, you can respond in a way
- 9:17that actually addresses the root issue.
- 9:20Emily: Once you've managed any outside issues that might be
- 9:22impacting the student, you're ready for the next step,
- 9:25offering support that helps students re engage.
- 9:28Heidi: Now let's imagine that you have just wrapped up your
- 9:31top notch, super engaging geometry lesson. Next is time
- 9:35for independent practice. You explain the assignment and you
- 9:38turn the kids loose. It seems like everyone is getting to
- 9:41work, but then you take a closer look, and you notice one kid is
- 9:44drawing Pokemon on his paper, one is playing with the Gibbets
- 9:48on her crocs, and another hasn't even noticed there's a paper on
- 9:51his desk.
- 9:52Emily: Ugh, those Croc Gibbets. You can feel your blood pressure
- 9:57rising by the second. Why did these kids have to make
- 9:59everything so hard? So the first thing is to remember the don'ts,
- 10:03don't react, don't get into a power struggle. Take some deep
- 10:06breaths and let your brain reset.
- 10:07Heidi: And then while you're breathing, get curious. What
- 10:11does each situation need? Use what you know about your past
- 10:14interactions with these kids to diagnose the problem. Are there
- 10:17any deeper, academic, emotional, or environmental problems at
- 10:21play?
- 10:21Emily: Then address the issues you can and provide the support
- 10:25students need to get started. Maybe the girl with the crocs
- 10:28just needs a reminder to leave her shoes alone. But if students
- 10:31need more support, we're going to use a tool from Fred Jones'
- 10:34book Tools for Teaching, called praise, prompt, and leave.
- 10:38Heidi: Now I swear by this technique, it can absolutely
- 10:41save you in a tough moment, and it has saved me in plenty of
- 10:44them. So let's talk about how this works in action. You walk
- 10:48over to the desk nearest you, maybe it's the kid drawing the
- 10:51Pokemon pictures, and you find something to praise about what
- 10:54they have done right so far. Now this might be tricky if all he's
- 10:58done is draw Pokemon pictures.
- 11:01Emily: Yes, but even if all you can say is, I'm glad you've got
- 11:04your pencil ready to go, starting with connection will
- 11:07help keep the situation positive.
- 11:09Heidi: The type of praise you use in this moment really does
- 11:12matter. Try to focus on effort, not ability. Something like,
- 11:15"look how quickly you got started on that first problem"
- 11:18is more useful than "you're so smart."
- 11:21Emily: After praising whatever action they've taken, give them
- 11:24one simple prompt about the very next step they should take.
- 11:27Don't go over the whole assignment, just the next step.
- 11:29Say something like, "the next thing you need to do is circle
- 11:32all the angles."
- 11:33Heidi: And then you leave. Don't hover or wait for them to
- 11:36complete that step. You will circle back in a few minutes to
- 11:40check on progress, but don't wait for them to get started
- 11:43before you move on. The goal is to scaffold their independence,
- 11:46not make them dependent on you, walking them through every step.
- 11:51Emily: Now let's say you've calmed your emotions, you've
- 11:53gotten curious about what's going on, and you've tried to
- 11:55praise, prompt, and leave, but the work still isn't getting
- 11:58done. We have all been in those situations, it can leave you
- 12:01feeling really stuck.
- 12:03Heidi: But we promise you are not stuck, because you have got
- 12:06some more tools to try. When you find yourself in this moment,
- 12:09the next step is to make the work feel more manageable. A lot
- 12:13of the time, work refusal comes down to the task being too big
- 12:16or too out of the student's control.
- 12:19Emily: Yeah, think about how you feel when someone hands you a 10
- 12:21page form to fill out. Oh, the worst. Large assignments can be
- 12:25daunting, even to adults, so let's do what we can to limit
- 12:28that overwhelm for our kids.
- 12:30Heidi: So how do we shrink that mountain down into a hill that a
- 12:33student can actually climb? Two of the best tools we have for
- 12:37this are chunking and offering agency. Emily, can you tell us
- 12:41more about chunking?
- 12:42Emily: Yeah, well, when we say chunk an assignment, isn't it
- 12:45such an elegant word to describe it? This means we're breaking
- 12:49the work down into smaller, bite sized steps. So instead of
- 12:51expecting students to face a whole page of math problems,
- 12:54cover all but the first one or two and say, work these, then
- 12:58we'll check in.
- 12:59Heidi: This also works with other assignments, like writing.
- 13:02Instead of "write a paragraph about your favorite animal," you
- 13:05can try chunking your directions. "First choose the
- 13:07animal you're going to write about, and then write one
- 13:10sentence about what it looks like."
- 13:12Emily: You can also try chunking the time. Use timers to create
- 13:15mini deadlines, like, "Work for three minutes, then let's see
- 13:18how far you get." Each small win builds momentum, and before you
- 13:22know it, the student who couldn't even start five minutes
- 13:23ago is suddenly halfway done.
- 13:25Heidi: Besides chunking, you can make work more manageable by
- 13:28offering agency. Kids are much more likely to engage when they
- 13:32feel that they have some say in what happens.
- 13:34Emily: Now before you have a heart attack, that absolutely
- 13:37does not mean turning your class into a free for all. Think of it
- 13:40more like choices within structure.
- 13:43Heidi: Yeah, you're likely to find students much more engaged
- 13:47in their work if they have some say in how it gets done. So try
- 13:51offering limited options and see how quickly it changes the mood
- 13:54in your room. Just make sure that you can live with whatever
- 13:57they choose.
- 13:59Emily: Yeah, don't offer students the choice to either do
- 14:01their work independently or with a buddy if you don't want to
- 14:04manage partner work at that moment. It's fine, there are
- 14:07lots of simple ways to give students options that don't make
- 14:09your job harder.
- 14:11Heidi: An easy one, for example, is to try offering students the
- 14:14choice of where to work. "You can stay at your desk or take
- 14:17your paper to the carpet," or, "You could work at the top of
- 14:20your desk, or you could turn around and use your chair as a
- 14:23desk." You know, little tweaks make a big difference.
- 14:25Emily: You can also give students the choice of how they
- 14:28work. Can they use pen, pencil or crayon to complete the
- 14:31assignment? Or maybe give options about the format of
- 14:33their response. "You can write this out, type it, or draw your
- 14:37response."
- 14:38Heidi: One of my favorite options for students, and one of
- 14:41the easiest was to let them choose the order they do the
- 14:43problems. If it doesn't really affect the outcome, just let
- 14:46them pick. "You can start with the first three problems or the
- 14:49last three problems. It's up to you."
- 14:51Emily: And that choice to skip strategy from our try it
- 14:54tomorrow fits perfectly in this category.
- 14:57Heidi: Kids love that one. Honestly, it will make you their
- 15:00favorite teacher.
- 15:02Emily: Another way to offer choice is to invite the student
- 15:04into helping solve the situation. Ask them, "what part
- 15:08feels hardest," or "what would make this feel doable?"
- 15:10Empowering students to solve their own problems can be just
- 15:13the nudge they need to turn things around.
- 15:16Heidi: As helpful and powerful and useful as these tools are,
- 15:19sometimes the wisest decision you can make is just to do
- 15:23nothing.
- 15:24Emily: Yeah, as a teacher, you need to learn to recognize when
- 15:27the battle isn't worth it. If anything you try is just going
- 15:31to escalate the situation, just leave it alone. Assuming the
- 15:34child isn't in any danger, a short reset or coming back to it
- 15:37later can be more effective than forcing compliance right now.
- 15:40Heidi: Maybe they need a few minutes to cool down, or maybe
- 15:42the timing just isn't right. You can always circle back when
- 15:45they're in a better headspace.
- 15:47Emily: When things have calmed down and it's time to have that
- 15:49conversation, the most important thing is to listen. Don't jump
- 15:52in with your thoughts about what's happening. Let them talk
- 15:54first. You really might be surprised what you learn.
- 15:58Heidi: And if work refusal becomes a persistent pattern,
- 16:00that's when you might need to involve other support, school
- 16:03counselors, administrators or parents. You don't have to solve
- 16:06everything by yourself.
- 16:08Emily: Okay, let's do a quick recap of our strategies for
- 16:11handling work refusal. First, prevent it when you can with
- 16:14engaging, well-scaffolded instruction that sets students
- 16:18up for success. When it does happen anyway, avoid power
- 16:22struggles, punishment or bribes. Regulate yourself first, get
- 16:26curious about what the behavior is communicating, like, is there
- 16:29an academic, emotional or environmental issue at play?
- 16:33Heidi: Next, provide support with praise, prompt, and leave.
- 16:36Make the work feel manageable by breaking it down and offering
- 16:39choice within structure. Involve students in collaborative
- 16:42problem solving, and know when it's better just to let it go
- 16:45and come back later.
- 16:46Emily: Remember, work refusal is communication, not defiance. You
- 16:50have tools to respond without burning yourself out. These kids
- 16:53aren't trying to make your life difficult. They're trying to
- 16:55tell you something, and now you know how to listen.
- 16:57Heidi: We would love to hear how these strategies work in your
- 17:01classroom. Come join the conversation in our Teacher
- 17:03Approved Facebook group.
- 17:05Emily: Now for our Teacher Approved Tip of the Week, where
- 17:07we share an actionable tip to help you elevate what matters
- 17:10and simplify the rest. This week's teacher approved tip is
- 17:13to create a simple prevention checklist for lesson planning.
- 17:16So tell us about this, Heidi.
- 17:18Heidi: Well, we mentioned earlier in the episode that
- 17:20prevention is your best strategy for avoiding work refusal. So we
- 17:24want to give you some specific questions that you can ask
- 17:26yourself during lesson planning. These literally take one minute
- 17:30to run through, but they can save you 20 minutes of
- 17:32redirecting and re-teaching during work time.
- 17:35Emily: Here are the questions. First, academic readiness. Can
- 17:38most of your students do this independently after your guided
- 17:41practice? Is there a clear model or example they can refer to?
- 17:44What's the hardest part of this task, and have you taught that
- 17:47piece well enough?
- 17:49Heidi: Next, engagement and motivation. Why would a student
- 17:52care about this assignment? Is there any choice, movement or
- 17:55novelty built in? Can you explain the why behind this work
- 17:59in kid friendly terms?
- 18:00Emily: Then overwhelm prevention. Does this look
- 18:03doable at first glance, or does it look like a lot? Can you
- 18:07break this into smaller chunks or steps? How long will this
- 18:10realistically take your slowest worker?
- 18:12Heidi: Also consider environment and logistics. Do students have
- 18:16everything they need to complete this? Are there too many
- 18:18distractions happening during this work time? Is this the
- 18:21right time of day for this type of task?
- 18:24Emily: And finally, differentiation reality check.
- 18:26What will your struggling learners do when they get stuck?
- 18:29What will your fast finishers do so they don't become
- 18:31distractions? Do students understand what being done with
- 18:35this assignment looks like?
- 18:37Heidi: And here is my favorite question of all. If you were
- 18:40tired and this assignment landed on your desk right now, would
- 18:43you want to do it? If the answer is no, your students probably
- 18:46won't want to do it either.
- 18:48Emily: These questions help you catch potential work refusal
- 18:51before it happens, and honestly, they make your teaching more
- 18:54engaging for everyone, not just the kids who might refuse to
- 18:57work.
- 18:57Heidi: We will put the full checklist in the show notes so
- 19:00that you can reference it easily during planning time.
- 19:02To wrap up the show, we're sharing what we're giving extra
- 19:08Emily: I'm giving extra credit to Noco cookie cakes on
- 19:08credit to this week. Emily, what gets your extra credit?
- 19:11Instagram. She's also on Tiktok. I randomly stumbled on her
- 19:16account like a month ago, and I got sucked in watching these
- 19:20videos. So it's this woman who, last year, I believe, lost her
- 19:25job, and I don't really understand why, but she got this
- 19:29idea of making cookie cake. So she's making just like a big
- 19:34chocolate chip cookie, and then using frosting to decorate it.
- 19:38But the best part is she does a voiceover of the recording of
- 19:39But she is not a decorator. She's not really good at writing
- 19:43or drawing anything. So already like the outcome is hilarious.
- 19:53her, the sped up, you know, clip, edited version of her
- 19:56making this cake. And it just delights me. She's hilarious. I
- 20:01saw on her Instagram, she described herself as a cookie
- 20:03cake comedian. And I was like, yeah, that's accurate. I wish I
- 20:07lived in Colorado. I'd get myself a cookie cake so that she
- 20:10could make fun of me while she makes it. Because she always
- 20:13makes fun of like, what people request on their cake, or
- 20:16laments, why do people keep making me write things, and
- 20:19anyway. And the other funny thing is, she says all the time
- 20:22that she doesn't like frosting, like she would not want to eat
- 20:25one of these cakes, which makes it even funnier. It's so good.
- 20:28If you need a laugh, I will link to it in the show notes. Noco
- 20:31cookie cakes.
- 20:32Heidi: Highly recommend. I did see though today, I don't know
- 20:34if you saw this, she hurt her hand.
- 20:36Emily: Oh no.
- 20:36Heidi: She hasn't been able to decorate her case.
- 20:39Emily: No, I haven't seen that. What a tragedy.
- 20:41Heidi: I know. So everyone's a bit concerned. Hopefully Noco
- 20:45can continue.
- 20:46Emily: Yes, please. I'll have to check in on that. What are you
- 20:49giving extra credit to, Heidi?
- 20:51Heidi: Well, I'm giving extra credit to the picture book A
- 20:53Fall Day for Bear by Bonnie Becker. I love these bear books
- 20:58so much. It's about like a grumpy, surly just want to be on
- 21:03his own, introvert, bear and a peppy, extroverted mouse who
- 21:08adopts him as his best friend.
- 21:10Emily: Against as well.
- 21:11Heidi: Yeah, so they have all kinds of hijinks together. Yeah,
- 21:16a fall picture book is always a win. And then this is just so
- 21:19cute. And this one, though, it's a bit of a role reversal,
- 21:22because mouse is having a really bad day, and so bear has to step
- 21:25up to cheer him up. So it's very sweet. It's a perfect book for
- 21:29fall. I know we did some vocabulary for Christmas for
- 21:33Bear and Mouse. I think we have a vocabulary resource.
- 21:36Emily: Yes.
- 21:37Heidi: So if you have not met bear and mouse, this is the
- 21:40moment you need to jump on that.
- 21:41Emily: Yeah, and I did not know about this new book, so I'm
- 21:43excited to check it out.
- 21:44Heidi: It's very cute.
- 21:46That is it for today's episode. Remember, work refusal is
- 21:49communication. Your job isn't to force compliance. It's to figure
- 21:53out what your students need and to help them get there.
- 21:56Emily: Try our strategies for handling work refusal with
- 21:58curiosity instead of frustration. And don't forget
- 22:01our Teacher Approved tip for creating a prevention checklist
- 22:04during lesson planning.
- 22:07Heidi: We hope you enjoyed this episode of teacher approved. I'm
- 22:10Heidi.
- 22:11Emily: And I'm Emily. Thank you for listening. Be sure to follow
- 22:14or subscribe in your podcast app so that you never miss an
- 22:17episode.
- 22:18Heidi: You can connect with us and other teachers in the
- 22:20Teacher Approved Facebook group. We'll see you here next week.
- 22:23Bye for now.
- 22:24Emily: Bye.