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Top Tips for Happy Cats with Kitty Sitty Clinical Cat Behaviourist · Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond

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Welcome to the Pause Between Us podcast co-hosted by best friends Natalie and Sasha.
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We're lifelong animal lovers and proud pet parents and between us we share our lives with
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lovely cats Weaver and Murray and Betty the pug. In each episode we'll dive into the joys and
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challenges of living with our furry companions, sharing honest stories, laughter and maybe
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sometimes a few tears. We'll also bring in special guests to offer expert-backed tips
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and proven practices for keeping your pets happy, healthy and loved. Please note some episodes may
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touch on sensitive topics or contain strong language. Lister discretion is advised.
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Hey Sasha, how you doing? Welcome. Hi Nat, welcome. How are you? Yeah, I'm all right,
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thank you. Not too bad. You? Yeah, same here. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to speaking to
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Kitty City. I know it's going to be, it's one that's close to my heart because obviously
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everyone knows I've got Murray and Weaver so I'm dead excited to kind of find out a little bit more
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and share with the rest of the world her advice and information. That'd be really good. Yeah,
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it'd be great. I mean Amanda's got what, over 30 years of experience with cats so I'm sure
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you're going to learn something new. As am I. I mean I, before Betty, had a cat called Jagger
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which feels like some time ago now. So I haven't had cats in my life for a while but
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have always had cats which I've talked about before. Yeah, it'd be good for me to have a
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little bit of a refresher to think about lion behavioural problems and yeah, how Amanda is
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helping her clients to sort of, her cat clients and her human clients overcome some of those things.
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Yeah, it'd be good to know like what's a common kind of concern. I mean I think I'm quite lucky
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with Murray and Weaver. They don't seem to cause me too much trouble though. I mean it's funny
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because I talked to some other cat people on socials and their cats are getting them up in
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the middle of the night, they're like begging for food, they're shouting. Oh gosh. I know,
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yeah. Mine are like, I have to drag mine out of bed sometimes. Just fit in with our lives so easily.
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I think I'm very lucky. Yeah, it'd be really good to talk to you because one of the things I've
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started to think more about is because they're indoor cats, you know, how to keep them entertained,
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how to make sure they have a rich life and that they're not bored and like becoming too sedentary.
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So, hopefully we'll get some tips from Amanda on that. Yeah, no, I mean he just sort of reminded
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me really about that waking up in the night thing when I had my cat. He had been a street cat before
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I adopted him. He was from Romania and he'd been injured trying to cross a busy road I think and
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then someone had handed him into a cat rescue and yeah, he loved to wander but he also would wake
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me up in the middle of the night. He'd have a habit of sort of pawing my head or trying to
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kind of like pat me and wanting food. But he didn't start to do that at the beginning. It was
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only sort of after a couple of years. So, I don't know what changed. I don't know what was driving
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the behaviour at the time but I like my sleep. I'm not very good at being woken up in the middle
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of the night. I mean most of the time I went back to sleep but sometimes I'd be like, oh it's 5am
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and now I'm not gonna get to sleep. I might as well just get up. So, yeah, he just reminded me
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of that. I think it's quite common from what I've heard. Yeah, it sounds like it then, doesn't it?
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Yeah, no, we were really good. I think we have quite a routine for bed. We kind of start to
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switch off around the same time. We have the same kind of routine and I think the cats just seem to
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kind of follow. I don't know. I've never had a problem with cats. The only thing I had was Diaz
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when she got older but I think that was due to some dementia as she got kind of old. She's quite
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shouty, bless her. But no, otherwise I've been lucky. But yeah, it'd be great to know what
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Amanda is finding and how she's helping cat parents and, yeah, learn a little bit and share
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more with you, the listeners. Yeah, no, and I think she's got an amazing social media presence as well
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so I would definitely encourage anyone who is listening today and likes what Amanda has to say
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to check out her socials where she also shares advice but I'm sure she'll tell us more about
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that. Shall we speak to her then? Yeah, let's go for it. Brilliant.
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Right, hello everybody. Today we're joined, I'm so pleased, joined by Amanda from Kitty City,
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a clinical cat behaviourist with over 30 years of experience helping cat owners understand and
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solve feline behavioural problems. I have seen Amanda not only on telly but also through my
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socials on TikTok and we've connected through that. She's been amazing and what drew me in was
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your lovely sort of warm, non-judgmental, really encouraging approach to giving advice and I
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think there was a little time when I was worried about something and I saw you kind of, it was
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about cats announcing once they've gone to the litter tray and I was like, oh do you know that's
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made me feel so much better just hearing what you had to say, all the kind of different things around
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that and I felt really reassured and thought this is a brilliant, brilliant advice and I thought
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wanted to follow. So thank you Amanda for coming on and joining us. Welcome to Pause Between Us.
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Thank you very much for having me. Nice to see you both. Yes, likewise. It's lovely. So yeah, Amanda,
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tell us a little bit about yourself from your point of view and your kitty family. It'd be lovely to
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know a little bit who's in your cat world. Hey, well I think you've said quite a lot about me
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already and thank you for those nice words. That was lovely. I feel all fluffy and important now.
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You're welcome. So as you said, I am a clinical animal behaviourist but I specialise in cats only
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which I think there are a few of us that just specialise in cats but for me that is my primary
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drive. I'm passionate about cats so I specialise in cat behaviour, their welfare and also the human
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cat bond as well. That's really, really important and with my job I work with cat parents around
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the globe actually and that is helping them better understand their cats and help them with any
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behaviour challenges they've got but always in a kind and science-based way. I've got five cats of
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my own. They all were rescues actually from kittens, believe it or not, some of them.
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I've got Hugo who you've probably seen on a lot of my videos. He's a Bengal cross.
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I've got two Snow Bengals that were from the Bengal Cat Association. That's Rocco and Eska.
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I've got two Ragdolls, Bueno and the newest arrival is Nugget and he's just six and a half
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months old now so they keep me really on my toes and I have to say my home is very, very cat-centred
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obviously and I'm constantly learning from them every day. I think I draw a lot of inspiration
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from my cats and if I'm unsure about anything then I go and pick up some learning and find out
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why they're doing something because I think when you think that you know everything that's the
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time to give up and certainly I enjoy learning. My cats have all got different personalities as
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you can imagine. The Bengals are very different to the Ragdolls and I don't think, regardless of
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breed, I don't think there's any such thing as a typical cat. Cats are all different.
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That's interesting. I've had cats all my life and even literally since I was a baby
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and they've all had different personalities. They've all kind of like trade themselves in
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all these different ways and they all kind of want different things in different ways and some
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like petting, some don't and you really have to, I think, take their lead on knowing what's right
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for them a little bit and sort of not just kind of following a cat kind of like this is how a cat
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likes to be petted, this is how a cat likes to be fed. I've kind of like learned to adapt to them a
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little bit and learn them first of all. I've gone off a little bit but tell me a little bit
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first of all about what a feline clinical behaviourist is, what that means, what you do,
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what you focus on. Okay, so you work with the clients, obviously the cat parents and a lot of
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the job can be counselling them through education. They may be stressed or anxious and you try and
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deep dive into exactly what's going on. Now, hopefully they'd have been to the vet first to
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find out what actually is it going on and the vet, if it's nothing medical, then the vet will
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refer to an animal behaviourist and you pick up there. So, you're the bridge between the vet and
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the clients and I think because cats are so misunderstood a lot of the time, you can help
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the cat parent analyse their behaviour, put in different strategies using a multi-modal approach
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in the home that's going to benefit the cat's welfare mentally, everything. Yeah, I mean you say
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though about like reassuring pet owners because I'm constantly sort of like worrying if they're
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all right and any sort of small change in their behaviour, I'm like sure something's not right
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here. But then, you know, I always want to read more and learn if there's anything that's going
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on about them so I can sort of keep them in better health and better care and do the right thing for
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them. I can help with anything such for it could be inappropriate. I say inappropriate in inverted
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commas because it's never inappropriate for the cat. Inappropriate toileting, aggression, geriatric
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issues, you know, if the cat, the geriatric cat is going out of the tray and the cat parent can't
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understand why that's happening. Well, it could be just some simple modifications to the litter tray,
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it could be the litter itself, introductions as well is another big one or stress and anxiety,
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you know, all of those things. It could be that there's a new baby in the home or a new pet,
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a new dog and people just think that or they could think that well it's okay, the new baby,
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it's going to be part of our family but for a cat, it just means that their environment, the
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predictability of it has just changed completely and that can be hugely stressful for the cat.
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So, that's when you'd see symptoms. So, that's really what I help parents with and it's as much
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helping the parent to understand why the cat's doing what they're doing as much as it is helping
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the cat itself because I think if a cat parent can understand the why then they don't see it as
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the cat's being naughty or spiteful and during the process of engaging with a client, there's
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obviously the clinical history that comes from the vet, the vet referral itself but then there's
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also a really, really deep dive into the antecedents of the cat and a targeted questionnaire of,
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for example, if it's spraying, all the right relevant questions that I'd want to know what
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could be the cause of the cat spraying, is there another new cat in the neighbourhood,
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is the cat stressed, have they got enough resources in the home, that sort of thing.
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Yeah. Go on, Sash.
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So, on that with the introduction piece, you just touched on that a moment ago and you said that I
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think, is it Nugget, your newest cat? Yeah. So, what have you done to introduce Nugget to the
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rest of the family because it sounds like you have a lot of cats which is wonderful but
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how do they take to a new arrival and how was Nugget found meeting all your other cats?
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That's a great question and I'll probably go off a tangent here because what was really funny,
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I had Bueno, he came when he was nine months old and I thought this is going to be brilliant
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because I can create content to show cat parents in real time exactly how long and how strategic
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an introduction plan needs to be. So, I set myself up, I did the non-visual introductions
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first and then we went on to the visual introductions quite quickly because there was no
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aversive behaviour shown by my resident cats and within an hour and a half, he was in with all the
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others. I was absolutely gutted because I thought, I just knew it was ready. I didn't force anything,
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I could just tell by the other cats, they were so welcoming and curious and displaying all the
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signs that were telling me that we were ready to move on. So, it's not something that I would
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suggest is normal. I think maybe because my cats have been used to having some cats in the house,
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some kittens when I've taken in an emergency foster care but also when my son came to live
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with me a couple of years ago, he brought two adult female cats with him. Now, I knew from the
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get-go there was no, I never wanted them to get on with my other cats. I was always going to keep
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them separately and organically with the odd accident of a cat coming upstairs and that
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probably took within 10 months and then all of the cats were again really cohabiting really well and
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that's something that I never set out to do. I think what I learned from that, Sasha, was
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take the pressure off yourself when it comes to introducing cats to other cats. It might take
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a long time, it may be very quick but as long as you are cat-led, there won't be any mistakes.
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I had a lovely message from Yvette actually that I helped. She got in touch this morning and I
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probably helped her about six months ago and it was introducing two cats into her life, into each
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other's life and she messaged this morning to say, fantastic, we're now probably at 10 months and the
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cats are cohabiting really well. Really pleased I followed your advice and it just shows how
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how much cats need time and if you take the time it takes with them, it actually takes less time.
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I also think it takes a good cat mum as well to build that bond. Do you know what I mean?
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Your lovely nature and your interest in them and your just genuineness care towards them
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surely helps them come along as a team as well, do you think or not?
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I think anyone can do that. I think if they understand their cats and are cat-led and are
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compassionate about their cats and they don't think that cats are small dogs, you know, because if you
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introduce a dog to another dog, generally it'll be tails wagging, they'll be spinning, they'll be
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so excited and they'll want to go and play. Whereas if you do it with another cat, they're so
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territorial that's going to be a failed introduction from the start and that's why the very, very first
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steps of an introduction are non-visual and you just sense swap and that is crucial because once
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you get what I would call a negative interaction and that could be them seeing the cats before
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they've actually had chance to get used to the smell or even hear them in the home, that could
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be negative because then they're going to think that they've got an imposter in their environment.
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So with scent swapping then, how do you do that? Do you take a little bit of the cat's bed or like
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what is it that you have to do to get that scent swapping going?
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Well there's different things that you can do. One thing that I tend to always do is have the
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blanket for example. If the cat doesn't sleep on a blanket, I'd say okay start putting the
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resident cat and the new cat on a towel or something or even a t-shirt that you've worn
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in bed for a couple of days so that way your scent is going to be immersed onto the both cats
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and then you'd swap that over. And then once both cats are actually engaging with that
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surface as in they're going on the bed and they don't seem reluctant to use the bed, you know
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that they've accepted that scent and that could keep going for days or weeks, however long it takes.
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Another top trick is to put a little sports sock or an ankle sock on your hand and then literally
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use it as a glove and wipe up the cat's mouth and swap it over to the other cat and then put
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that sock in the bed. Cat attractants such as valerian or silver vine can be helpful but never
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catnip because in a multi-cat home, I think I've said to you before Natalie, catnip can be really
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not the type of cat attractant that you want because it is a stimulant and that can exacerbate
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any sort of behaviour that we don't want to see. Yeah, actually just something that came up this
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morning, I was talking to somebody about catnip and kittens. Is it right that you shouldn't really
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use catnip with young kittens or is that a sort of... No, you can use, you can try catnip with
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kittens but they haven't developed the receptors that will be affected by the catnip and it's only
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a certain percentage of cats that actually will be receptive to catnip as well. So, not every
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cat will like catnip or Nepeta cataria is its posh name because there are different variants
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of catnip as well. So, I think always go for valerian, silver vine, gall fruit, tatarian, honeysuckle, go for
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the calming, soporific types of cat attractants. They're great to put in different puzzle feeders
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and forage boxes for your cats. Oh, because I've got some valerian root pouches as well as just the
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regular catnip toys that they have actually. I didn't realise there was a difference in their sort of
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the way they'll change their behaviour. So, that's useful to know. What are some of
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the most common behavioural issues that people come to you about then? Definitely introductions,
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that's a big one. Aggression, that could be cat-to-cat aggression or cat-to-human aggression.
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Anxiety, that could be from loud noises, separation anxiety, every case is different.
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I mentioned, you know, the introductions, new babies in the home, other pets, obesity, boredom,
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stress-related behaviours or pica, where the cat's eating random objects that aren't of any
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nutritional benefit. Over-grooming, obviously that would come under the anxiety umbrella potentially.
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So, those seem to be the most common ones that I get and most of my client base,
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you'll find this funny to know, seem to be Bengals and Ragdolls.
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I know Bengals are dead chatty and I know Ragdolls seem to have a lot of stomach problems. I don't
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know if that's true in reality. They can be really sensitive in the
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GI. So, again, it's about, that's obviously more of a medical question that a vet would rule out
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first, but it's the same with any foods that you're going to be giving to your cat or your dog.
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You introduce it slowly over a period of several days, so it doesn't cause any gastric upset.
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Yeah. So, is it true that Bengals are the more talkative ones?
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They are certainly very, very vocal and Rocco will be screaming at me very,
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very soon. If I'm up in the office a bit too long, he'll be letting me know. So,
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they've got a very distinct piercing meow. You know, like Siamese are very vocal as well.
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Yeah. So, there are breeds that are very vocal, but certainly Bueno's very vocal. If I'm outside,
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he'll run out into the catio and then start shouting at me to come and walk around the
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corner so I can see him and give him some hat mints from the garden. You know, he's really vocal
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too. Have you seen any changes over the years in behavioural challenges? Are there any sort of
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things that have evolved over time? Do you think I'm starting to see more trends now towards certain
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types of behaviours or is it a real mix of things? It's still a real mix, but I think that I get a
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lot more of the designer breeds having problems. So, it's not the breed itself that's having the
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problem per se, but people will think, oh, I've seen this celebrity with a Sphinx cat or this
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celebrity with a Bengal cat and it's like having a little leopard in the house and they have them
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and they don't understand the welfare, the needs that they have. Or Scottish Fold, for example,
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you know, there's celebrities that have Scottish Fold cats, Munchkin cats. I mean, the list goes
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on about these designer breeds and it really makes me sad because some of them have got their
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own genetic unfortunate disorders anyway. But then when you pair that with lack of education by the
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cat parent who's having the cats, that's when you have a real problem and hopefully someone like
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myself or the vet can certainly step in and help those people then. So, we saw a lot of different
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type of behaviours after Covid. Cats weren't habituated to seeing visitors come in the home.
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So, because they didn't have exposure to all different people, they could be very reactive
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to different noises and certainly people coming to the home. So, a lot more aggression and then,
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of course, when people went back to work, then the anxiety then also impacted the cat's lifestyle.
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You talk about, you've mentioned a few times, cat aggression. I personally have never had an
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aggressive cat. I don't know if I've just been lucky, but I have heard friends who've had quite
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aggressive cats and always been scared of the cat. What's coming from that? Why would cats be
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aggressive? What normally kind of sparks that off? Besides illness, obviously.
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Yeah, so obviously the first differential would be refer to the vet and get the vet to check for
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any pain or any underlying health conditions. That is really important. After that, generally,
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if a cat has been adopted to hand rear or it hasn't had maternal habituation, then the mum cat
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hasn't really taught the cat or the kitten at that time boundaries, manners and how to behave
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appropriately. It doesn't learn bite inhibition from its siblings, its litter mates. So, that can
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very often, that will be a cause for cats to own aggression. It could be redirected aggression. So,
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if, for example, territorial cat is looking through the window and it sees another cat in
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its outside environment that the resident cat thinks, assumes that that's their environment,
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they get frustrated and then they could take out their frustration on the cat parent. I had a client
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that he had, I think it was a Bengal or a tiger or something like that. The cat, every time
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another human came up to the door and rang the doorbell, the cat would actually launch to the
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owner. This owner, poor owner, had to go to hospital several times because of the lacerations
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and the puncture wounds. So, that was fixed by a lot of counter conditioning and training. But also,
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we used film, an opaque film up against the window partially for a short period to try and
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retrain this cat. But what was really funny that he actually then learned the sound of the doorbell
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and then he would climb up to get a view so he could then do it. But it was fixed. He was all
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happy. Again, that's another happy client that is in regular touch with me now and still lets me know
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that the cat's okay and it's all solved. So, you've also obviously mentioned your cats sound
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like they're indoor cats because you talked about a catio. Obviously, mine, I've got rag dolls,
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mine are indoor cats as well. I've been quite being made more and more aware recently about
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boredom and making sure there's plenty of enrichment for them. So, what should we look
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out for as cat owners with indoor cats? What does boredom look like? What should we be looking for
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and how could we improve their life? Well, boredom in cats can look really,
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really different and that can depend on the individual. So, some cats could become destructive,
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hyperactive and you could see over grooming, attention seeking, overeating or not eating at
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all, repetitive, stereotypic behaviours. We've all seen the videos of the tigers walking up and
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down. So, performing strange little rituals, all of these could indicate that the cat is bored and
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then of course you could have the ambushing of ankles or becoming more reactive simply because
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they don't have enough appropriate outlets for play and hunting behaviours. Sasha, going back
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to the previous question you said, have there been any other changes that I've seen in clients
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and behaviour? I think we're generally, as a nation, I think we're going more towards having
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indoor cats. So, it's really important then to think about the outlets that these cats need in
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the home. You've got to support not only the physical health but also the mental health as
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well and if you don't, that's when behavioural problems will arise. Yeah, because I get quite
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conscious. Sometimes I worry like, are they sleeping too much? Is that a problem? I know cats
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do sleep and they like to nap all the time but like, do I need to get them moving? Is that
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something we should be looking out for if they're oversleeping? Is that a thing?
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That's a great question. Generally, a cat will sleep for about 16 hours a day. So, I think rather
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than just let them sleep their whole day away, they probably could then become more active at
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night and you don't want them to be more active at night. So, a great way if you try and get to
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interact is have predictable play times for your cats. So, I mean, if you're going to do it once
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at four o'clock, then do it at four o'clock every day because the cats know they soon learn what a
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predictable timetable is and that is really going to help them feel secure and they'll be waking up
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ahead of the scheduled play time. So, I think engaging with your cats and it isn't always about
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waving a wand in the air. It could be using puzzle feeders, using forage boxes and switching up a
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timetable. For anyone who's got children, they'll know that a toddler gets really, really bored if
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you leave your toys out all the time. So, putting the toys away all the time and then bringing new
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toys out every day and having a different activity every day would be really good. So, for example,
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on a Monday, you could have a tunnel out. Don't leave a tunnel out all the time because then the
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cats get bored of that. Bring it out and let them run around and appreciate it because when they see
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it the following Monday, they're going to think, wow, this is brilliant. This is a new great toy
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and I can play ambushing and darting and hiding. So, yeah, it would be very easy, Natalie, just to
27:37
think when my cat's asleep, I'll leave it to sleep all day because then the cat wouldn't be getting
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any interaction with you. But it's a fine line between disturbing a sleeping cat as well.
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Yeah. No, I love the idea of changing it up and not having everything out because currently we've
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floor is covered in toys thinking they'll pick them up when they want. But I'm going to try that
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actually and hide some stuff away and bring different ones out different days. Yeah, that's a
28:02
really good tip. Thank you. I even do a generic timetable for my cat clients so that they can then
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fill in the blanks, but I give them some ideas and using those cat attractants that I meant,
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not in terms of necessarily catnip, everyone thinks about catnip, but using that because
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that can be fun for a cat too. And think about textures. So, water play, you can buy freeze-dried
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sprats, which are lovely and smelly, but you could hide those. The cat doesn't necessarily
28:33
have to eat them, but it's a great for a scent trail because cats have got fantastic noses. So,
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why not do scent work with your cats? Do food pattern games with your cats? We do them for
28:46
dogs. Why shouldn't we do them for cats? And a lot of my toys that I put in, and I say toys,
28:52
could be puzzle games, puzzle feeders, are for dogs. So, think outside the cat-specific
28:59
toy box really as well. I mean, I don't have cats. I did when I was,
29:04
you know, throughout my life when I was younger, but I know like my dog, she resource guards her
29:09
toys. She gets a bit jealous if the dogs go near her toys. Do cats get like that as well or are
29:14
they happy to share? Because I don't know, it's a silly question, but can they get quite possessive?
29:19
Yeah, yeah, cats resource guard. Normally, it could be over a cat tower, a favourite resting
29:26
spot. It could even be you as the caregiver. So, and the signs of this is, and people actually
29:34
think, oh, the cat's being dominant. Well, there's no such thing as dominance in cat hierarchy
29:39
whatsoever. It's just that one cat will have a desire to have something more than the other cat,
29:44
and that's when you'll see one cat push another cat off the cat tree because they want it more
29:50
than the other one, and then the other cat will actually give up their place. But the way to,
29:54
obviously, you can't make two of you, but the way to ensure that you can limit resource guarding is
30:00
by having two of everything. And if you've got more cats, then obviously don't just have one
30:06
cat tree. You're going to need two. And this is where it comes to thinking about vertical space
30:11
for your cat because you don't have to buy a bigger house. You could actually just extend the
30:17
cat's environment by thinking vertically, and that's why there's so many fantastic cat platforms,
30:24
trees that you can put in, and some of them are space-saving too, the floor-to-ceiling ones. So,
30:30
I've got a plethora of cat trees and everything in my home. Obviously, having five cats,
30:35
I've got to make sure that all of their welfare needs are met, and they've all got their own
30:39
little places. So, I tend to get resource guarded. So, if one cat's on my knee, I'll
30:46
generally see that. And I can't make another one of me, so I have to try and distract them.
30:50
I was just about to ask that. I was thinking you only have one lap. So, if all five decide to
30:55
descend on you at the same time for cuddle, that could get interesting.
30:59
It does sometimes. So, yeah, we have to make sure that they all have their quiet,
31:04
independent time as well. So, they don't get jealous. Cats don't get morally jealous like we
31:10
do, but they do feel jealousy. It's really cute at the moment because I can hear Betty
31:16
snoring, and then you've got your kitty with you, Amanda, now.
31:22
If you do hear anything, it won't be me snoring. It'll be Hugo purring.
31:26
And on that, how do you build a bond with your cat? So, say you've adopted a new cat,
31:33
or you've got a new cat in your life.
31:36
Yeah, there's lots of love and attention you can give your cat. But is there anything specific
31:42
that people can do to sort of build that close bond, or does it just happen naturally?
31:46
Well, you can certainly help it. I mean, yes, it can happen over time, but cats bond through
31:51
their trust, the predictability of their routine. And I mentioned it earlier, being cat-led,
31:58
don't overwhelm your cats. Some cats don't want to come and sit on your lap. They're not lap cats,
32:03
some cats don't want to be picked up. The more you try and bond with your cats, it can actually
32:09
have the opposite effect. It can actually push them away. So, cats really need to feel that they
32:14
have control of their autonomy, their environment, that's really important. So, and people think
32:20
sometimes that affection is the only form of bonding, but some cats can show affection just
32:27
by sitting next to you, by slow blinking, by lying next to you, exposing their belly,
32:34
that's all affection. Even if they turn their back on you, that's affection because it shows
32:39
that they trust you. Whereas some cat parents would perhaps think, oh, my cat's being really
32:43
rude. Because in our culture, it's really rude, isn't it, if you turn your back on someone.
32:49
But for a cat, it's the opposite. It's, I really trust you, you've got my back,
32:53
so take it as a compliment.
33:03
Amanda, you mentioned there like the autonomy because my vibe of bringing my cats up is to
33:11
give them as much autonomy as possible because I just feel that deep respect for them as another
33:17
being. But I know the opposite is for dogs where actually they like training and you've got to
33:22
give them rules a little bit to have that sort of pecking order and not pack mentality. Am I
33:27
doing the right thing feeling that way about my cats or is there something more I should be doing?
33:32
Sorry, in what way there, Natalie?
33:34
So, like giving them autonomy, giving them the choices and letting them decide,
33:39
to a lot of degree, because I even do that with food as well, feeding.
33:43
Absolutely. Just stick to timetables, feed them at regular predictable times.
33:48
What you could do is give them choices of how they want to engage and have their food.
33:55
Say to a lot of people, bin the bowl. I'm not a fan of bowls at all for feeding cats. I like to
34:01
make them work for the food. That's a great thing for obesity as well because, yes,
34:06
if you are free feeding, that's a mouthful, free feeding kibble, yes, it is out there,
34:14
but they've got to work for it. So, they've got to engage and part of foraging is a natural
34:20
behaviour for cats too. So, I think, yes, allow them to do what they want to do, but at least
34:26
invite them to play and have those special times with you rather than just think, oh, they're just
34:32
sleeping, I'll let them do what they want. It's good to have a timetable in the day because that
34:36
does make them feel safe and secure. Yeah, I really like that term,
34:41
cat-led. I mean, I know it's an established term, but as a principal, I think it's brilliant.
34:46
It's really important, especially when it comes to affection and very often cat parents want to
34:53
bestow all the affection on the cat and, you know, this is my new cat, my new kitten. I want to pick
34:59
it up. I want to cuddle it. I want to, you know, we want to, like you've just heard me kissing Hugo,
35:04
but he was head bunting me, which is his language, that he wants to have that interaction
35:10
and he's jumped up on my knee. I haven't picked him up and put him there. So, I think that's
35:15
another thing is just be aware and always have, think of consent. That's another buzzword in cat
35:23
terms now, but it's quite crucial that, let the cat decide what they want and you'll actually get
35:31
more from your cat than less. Yeah, you're absolutely right because my two cats now,
35:36
I really want cuddles from them, but Weaver is very cuddly and will come and sit on my lap.
35:42
Murray is the opposite. If I want to stroke his head, I have to let him sniff my hand first
35:48
and then he'll let me stroke him, whereas Weaver, I can pick up, kiss and do everything. She's fine.
35:53
So, I've learned over the years with them that they're very different and I have to be patient
35:57
and, you know, lead by Murray, him telling me what he needs. Oh, it's the same with Bueno.
36:03
He seems to be, you can't just go and stroke his head. You always have to offer your hand,
36:08
like you've just said, and let him sniff and then he'll rub up against your hand and that would,
36:14
I think that's a great equivalent of a handshake for us humans. So, I think if everybody gives
36:21
their cat an outreached hand and see how the cat reacts and if they want to engage, they will,
36:27
you'll soon know and if they don't or they walk away, then they're not wanting to engage at that
36:31
moment in time and it doesn't mean that they don't like you. It's just they are just being
36:37
their own person, as you said. Yeah, some people are cuddlers, some people are handshakers,
36:43
some people are kisses on cheeks. Exactly, yeah and it's the same for cats and I don't think
36:51
ragdolls particularly, I've got hair up my nose now off you guys, I don't think ragdolls
36:58
particularly are big lap cats but I think they like to sit next to you. I think they're
37:05
very wanting to be close to you. Yeah, yeah. My big balls are all over me. They always want to
37:10
sit on my lap, which sort of you think it was the other way around really and then you go,
37:16
he's always on my lap but again, it's his choice. Well, people do talk about ragdolls as being like
37:21
super attentive, really cuddly and like floppy cats. My two ragdolls are nothing like that. I
37:29
had one before that absolutely was but these two aren't and again, I've adapted and learned from
37:35
them. Giving them the best life possible. Yeah, I'm just a new ragdoll parent, aren't I? So,
37:40
I'm finding all this out now as we go along. Thank you very much. Oh, I love my ragdolls.
37:47
I've learned that you can't go to the toilet on your own with them.
37:49
No. Oh, wow. I'm learning this as well. I haven't heard this before.
37:53
They are little shadows. I did a little video of Murray trying to push in through the toilet
37:57
door the other day. I was like, oh bless you, come in, come on. So, do they follow you everywhere
38:02
then? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Weaver is my shadow for sure. Murray's a bit more independent but Weaver
38:09
and actually, Amanda, it's really funny as well because I definitely think there's a difference
38:12
between girls and boys. It's particularly my ragdolls. Weaver has got so much personality.
38:18
She is funny. She's silly. She interacts with us in a very much different way. Murray to me is
38:24
very kind of one level. He's a little love boy or he's kind of like, I'll be on my own or I love
38:29
you but Weaver's just got so much personality and my other cat was a bit like that, my Persian. I
38:34
don't know if that's just me but I don't know. What do you think to that? I think it is down
38:39
to the personality. I mean, I've had some female cats that are really, really affectionate and
38:47
others that are really quite aloof. So, I do think it's down to personality rather than gender. The
38:54
gender, right. I was just going to ask the one bit of advice that you wish every cat owner knew
38:59
that you'd like to share. I think I'd say be cat-led because I've said that a few times.
39:05
Always try and see the world from your cat's perspective and just remember that cats have
39:11
behavioral and emotional needs that are just as important as food and veterinary care for them.
39:20
All these implementations of everything positive for a cat can have a huge difference to their
39:26
welfare. So, small environmental changes, I mentioned the perches and things like that,
39:31
can make a huge difference to a cat's life. Yeah, I could talk to you all day about this.
39:36
It's just so fascinating to me and I suppose I want to, I've not come to the end, but I wanted
39:40
to thank you for all the information you're sharing, not only on socials because you're
39:45
giving so much away for free for people to have better lives and for cats to have better lives
39:52
with their pet parents. So, it's just an amazing thing you're doing, just sharing all of this with
39:57
the world. So, thank you for that. Thank you. I mean, I started that, I didn't, I mean, I don't
40:04
think of myself as a content creator by any means. I never wanted to be a content creator. I wanted
40:10
to be an educator and I wanted to put all of my years of knowledge to help other cat parents and
40:17
where better to reach them. The new cat parents of tomorrow, we're going to get them on social
40:22
platforms and I'm a mid-century modern aged woman on TikTok. I mean, crikey, what's that all about?
40:30
But I really try to learn the platform so I could deliver good content and
40:37
yeah, it's definitely got better. I think the first few videos were horrific, but
40:42
it's important, I think, if somebody gets a kitten or a cat, that they've got somewhere to go
40:48
because not everybody wants to look at Google and there is so much misinformation out there as well.
40:54
It's important because this is a non-regulated industry. So, anyone can call themselves a cat
41:01
behaviorist, a dog behaviorist, anyone can call themselves a vet nurse. It's a non-regulated title.
41:08
So, it is important that at least if I'm getting positive, science-based, fear-free information
41:16
out there, that maybe people will watch it and think, okay, so that's why you shouldn't put food
41:22
next to your cat's water or no, we shouldn't be scruffing cats now. Or even, you know, advising
41:29
them on looking out for a feline-friendly vet as well. Advocate for your cat and pick
41:37
a vet that is feline-friendly. So, how do you do that? Is it just about asking the
41:43
vet the right questions or is it seeing if they've got the right info on their website or
41:47
how do you kind of gauge whether your vet is feline-friendly? You can go on to International Cat Care
41:52
ISFM and you can find a directory there of all of the cat-friendly clinics.
41:59
Generally, a cat-friendly clinic will display a logo on their website or on the door and they'll all
42:05
have varying awards which means that they've achieved certain standards in feline welfare
42:12
and that could even be from the fact they have separate waiting rooms, the fact that they treat
42:17
the cats with respect and they've all passed certain courses and they've got a certain
42:22
amount of knowledge that are going to help your cat when your cat goes to the vet. Because going
42:28
to the vet, I don't know about you, but going to the vet with an animal is... I used to get so
42:34
stressed about it, let alone my cat getting stressed and then we'd be bouncing off each other.
42:39
Whereas now, you know, I plan it plenty of time ahead and it's almost a treat now when I go. I love
42:45
to meet my vet team when I go, they're fantastic. The cats have... they lock the door and the cats
42:50
have free roaming around the clinic room and they really think it's a great treat and I'll actually
42:55
take them there even when one doesn't have to go and but one does, I'll take a few along so it's
43:02
just a positive experience for them. But that's how you find a feline-friendly vet.
43:08
And of course, there are cat-only clinics that are popping up around the country now as well.
43:13
That would be good. Yeah, I mean, Nat and I can talk all day, can't we, about our experiences at
43:18
the vets with our cats and, well, Nat's cats and my dog because I think, yeah, we completely agree.
43:24
It's stressful all around and the more we get stressed, the more they get stressed and then we
43:29
get more stressed. It's this like vicious circle and I have seen a difference when I've intentionally
43:33
tried to be a lot more relaxed, so was my dog, but it's really easy to get stressed because, say,
43:39
there's a cat in the same waiting room, my dog gets very, very agitated and it all can go a bit wrong,
43:46
can't it? So, yeah. I know, I'd like to do more. I think there are methods that you can use and
43:51
certainly I've done lots of videos on this because, again, it's not necessarily the most
43:58
engaging to watch, but if somebody is taking their cat to the vets and they think, okay, well,
44:03
how do I make a cat visit to the vets stress-free? Yeah. Then they can go and watch that content.
44:10
Again, my content isn't about numbers or views, it's about providing day-to-day living support
44:17
for feline cats' parents and just making sure that we can help them, really, just by prior
44:25
planned preparation. They can have a much more positive experience when it comes to vet trips.
44:29
Definitely look them up, I think. I definitely need some help there.
44:32
And also, when you come back from the vet, because if you've got more than one cat and
44:38
you just bring your cat from the vet, you can get some sort of non-recognition aggression as well.
44:44
So, that's something else that I've helped with before and people don't think about that. So,
44:48
there's before the vet visit and after the vet visit videos to watch. So, that'll give you
44:53
something to watch at bedtime. This is really interesting because, coming to the final question,
44:59
because I never knew about behaviourists for cats because it never seemed like a thing.
45:05
Cats, I always feel, get left behind. There's lots of stuff to support dogs. So, if people are
45:10
interested in either getting your help or looking for a professional, what's the best way they could
45:16
do about it? How could they get in touch either with you or learning more about the sector and
45:20
kind of where other support might be? Well, first and foremost, I think there's, for behaviour
45:25
support, you've got to go to your vet first and get vet referral. If it's what we would call
45:31
first aid advice, so if that's introducing a new cat to the home or things like that, then
45:37
you don't need vet referral, but that would be down for a clinical animal behaviourist to
45:42
guide you on that. So, you need to look for qualified science-based professionals who use
45:48
kind and welfare-based focus methods. Go into the APBC or the ABTC. They have a register of
45:58
everybody who is suitably qualified and they have been tested with the breadth and depth of knowledge
46:05
so you can be sure that you're getting a reputable professional because the services aren't cheap.
46:12
In fact, I think I'd be more cautious if somebody was charging cheap methods, sorry, cheap prices,
46:18
because would they be qualified? I think not. You do want to look for those clinical credentials as
46:25
well. Anybody can get hold of me via the website, which is www.kittycity.net and that's city with an
46:35
S. Of course, on all my social platforms, YouTube and people can reach out on here for guidance,
46:42
support and behaviour education. I do regular lives. I also do a live on cats.com once a month
46:52
and that's on their YouTube channel. Then the Cat Show Live, of course, they've got the Cat Club
46:58
and they're doing lots of educational behaviour clinics on there, which are live.
47:03
I've got two of those coming up. There's always something somewhere that somebody can reach out
47:09
and get help and advice. Amazing. Thank you so much. That's brilliant. Get in touch, go and
47:15
seek out Kitty City if you need any advice and follow some of her content and hopefully can help.
47:21
Thanks so much for that, Amanda. It's a brilliant chat. Thank you so much for all your interesting
47:25
insights and advice there. We've got so much to share and it's just been so useful.
47:32
Yeah, brilliant to have you. Thanks so much. I really appreciate you coming on and speaking to
47:36
us. You're welcome. I've enjoyed it and lovely to meet you both. Hopefully, people who will be
47:41
listening to this will pick up some hints and tips as well and make their cats happy.
47:47
Yeah. Thank you so much. Take care. We'll see you soon.
47:50
Take care. See you soon. Bye.