Latest / The Aaron Day Show / Five Eyes DESTROYED Bitcoin for Securities
Transcript
- The Aaron Day Show starts now. All right, welcome back to the Aaron Day Show. This is season three, episode thirteen. We have an incredibly important interview tonight, an episode. Actually, I'm going to do a little bit at the very beginning to talk about a big update to Technocracy Atlas, and then that's actually going to bleed into our episode tonight, which is quite a story, a fascinating story that is unfortunately too common. As we know, if you just saw the Free Ian music video, we have several of our crypto prisoners that are in prison or awaiting prison sentences or potentially being retried, as in the case with Roman Storm today. who had a hearing. But today we're going to be talking about an entrepreneur named Chris Horlocker. And I'm not going to give you his whole bio now, but this is a guy who, you know, basically his story sounds like a James Bond story, James Bond book or novel. It's just incredible what's happened, the deep state attack. And His area of expertise is something that I happen to be incredibly passionate about. He was one of the earliest people to start talking about tokenizing equities, so stocks and bonds and financial instruments, and actually created a solution to do this. that allowed what are called atomic swaps. So we'll get into all the details on this, but the stock market, as we've discussed many times on this show, that has many intermediaries. You do not own stocks in publicly traded companies. You don't own ETFs. There are layers and layers of intermediaries. And he created a system to get rid of those intermediaries, and he was destroyed by the equivalent of the CIA in Canada, literally run out of Canada. Several aspects, like I said, it's a Bond story here, but he is currently suing the canadian equivalent of the cia in canada for a hundred and forty million dollars so what i want to try to do tonight is lay out his story even though there are some complexities to it i want to lay out the story and with him and see what we can do to help elevate his story and package this up in a way with sound bites and so on and so forth where we can start spreading this around to help him get momentum in his lawsuit because that lawsuit will have huge implications well beyond Canada. But before we get into that, I want to talk about something that I deployed this week to Technocracy Atlas, and it actually stemmed from last week's episode. You may recall Craig and I went through and talked about the technocratic state of Ohio. And frankly, I think we were both shocked as we both prepared for the episode. I mean, Craig even lives in Ohio, so he's lived this for a long time. but it's stunning the amount of surveillance, the data centers, the overlap of data centers with Jeffrey Epstein and Les Wexner. I mean, literally Ohio is a major focal point for technocracy. And so I put out a tweet, you know, I've been putting out after we do a podcast every day, I'm trying to post a, essentially one of the slides with a description of the slide is one post and then a video clip. which will hopefully be a viral video clip, but an impactful video clip. We did five hours last week, so I was able to find at least seven of them. And I put out the one on Ohio, and it went viral. It had well over a hundred thousand views, but more than the views, and this is the really important part, is people started commenting and sharing information back and forth. We had a gubernatorial candidate from Ohio in the discussion comments. We had a state rep. We actually had Palmer Luckey, who is the CEO of Andral, which is one of the companies that we focused on. And so what I learned from that and what we probably have gathered as well, there's a huge backlash right now across the country around data centers, but data centers are just one part of it. And so what I've done is I've created an entire index of technocracy score by state and state rankings. And I'm going to go through the website with you in a minute and explain what the methodology is. But to rank the states and to allow people to drill in and see what's going on around seven different dimensions. And then ultimately to be able to comment on the Technocracy Atlas site, I'm gonna bring a community around that. And you can actually sign up for free, submit your email and get a detailed report, a PDF, With a full background on what's going on in your state, along with links to the relevant politicians or groups in the state, if you're going to go the political side. But of course, what I'm recommending is that people start exiting the system. That's what I've always recommended. But I figured we'd do both. So that, you know, hey, maybe I'm wrong. Some of these people are having some success pushing these things back. So I want to help empower people on that front. But even if they're unsuccessful, it gets them down the pathway to realizing that the only way out is to exit the system. So I see this as a huge tool. So every day for the next. Fifty days or forty five now. There's going to be a new post that shows the ranking and some of the key shocking points for each of the fifty states. And I'm tagging... some key influencers and people in each of those states that I think would be interested in the hopes that this spurs a conversation in all of those states and that that gets people going to the Technocracy Atlas site and gets people around the country talking about this issue. Because as I've said time and time again, the big issue that we have in front of us is educating people about technocracy. If you don't understand what technocracy is, the world won't make sense at all. You'll just view things like COVID and some of these other staged events or whatever as one-offs or where it's a handful of bad actors. But once you really understand technocracy, you realize this is a plan to completely shape society and effectively strip us of our free will. So I'm excited about this site. I'm excited about the fact that the site has quite a bit of traction. The other thing about all of this, and this actually is where it ties into our guest tonight, is who will be joining probably around is that there are multiple layers to technocracy, but in essence, it's technocratic firms, it's individuals, it's people like Peter Thiel, Larry Ellison, and others that are using and manipulating government at all levels to push their technocratic agenda. I've heard a lot of people recently talk about we're moving towards a multipolar world. And so people are starting to talk about things like, oh, we're going to have China, and then maybe we're going to have three or four different areas of concentration. And I think we may be moving towards a multipolar world, but it's not based on nation states. It's based on corporations. You're going to have Palantir. You're going to have Oracle. You're going to have Microsoft. You're going to have different countries vying for control over the global technocracy, because this is what we have going on today. When you dig into these individual companies, when you dig into Oracle or Palantir, and this was really revealed when I studied Operation Stargate, which was the first big announcement of Trump's second term, this big investment announcement. It was a five hundred billion dollar deal that he presented as being critical to securing American dominance in AI. And then you look at the deal, and it's like, OK, well, first of all, the lead investor is SoftBank from Japan. The companies involved are Oracle. Oracle is heavily involved globally. I mean, not only do they run the Federal Reserve system here, their first client was the CIA, but they're embedded in countries all around the world, including China. They do a massive amount of business in China. The same is true with open AI. So when Trump or a politician tries to tell you that a multinational corporation that has clients and is pushing surveillance technology in dozens of countries is, you know, it's an investment on the basis of national interest, that's just not true. These corporations are very good at using tax incentives. They're very good at influencing legislation to block out competition. A couple of episodes back, I discussed the new White House AI policy, and I also discussed the Blackburn bill coming out of the Senate with respect to AI. What they're pushing for nationally is a system where the Department of Energy has control over whether or not a new AI model can even be released. That is a go-no-go decision that according to this bill, the Blackburn bill, is put into the hands of the Department of Energy. As to laws, they're stripping away, and there's been a lot of conversation about stripping away state laws. And in fact, that's true. In this bill, the Secretary of Commerce is given the authority to basically go after and sue any state that comes up with a law that is trying to encumber AI development. Well, who is our Secretary of Commerce? It's Howard Lutnick. I don't know if I just said Secretary of State, but it's Secretary of Commerce. It's Howard Lutnick. So Howard Lutnick invested the authority to shoot down state-based laws on AI. And then it gets worse. You then have the FTC is involved with running programs to ensure that there's no political bias. So essentially, these AI models will be examined and people will have to go through some kind of training to make sure that that the AI isn't biased courtesy of the FTC. Other things in there is they strip away section two thirty, which is what is used for by online platforms to to make them essentially a neutral publisher. not excuse me a neutral platform as opposed to the publisher so that they don't get sued so in other words this is what gives you know twitter the ability to offer a platform where we can communicate and twitter is not held liable for our uh what our views are and what we post and they want to get rid of that through this bill that that edition was made by lindsey graham And so you package all of this up and then there's liability for the developers. So in the end, what you have is a situation where the big tech companies are the ones lobbying for this. This essentially puts any innovation on hold because no startup can afford. The only people that can comply with this are the large tech companies. So that's how the technocrats, technocratic firms are influencing things at the national level. But then you get down to the state level and you start looking at these data centers. And most of these data centers involve tax breaks at the state level. So these data centers that are being built, I'm a complete free market guy and I'm pro-AI. There's nothing free market related. or pro-AI about AIs that can only exist if they meet the standards of the DOE, the Secretary of Commerce, and the FTC. That's not a free market AI. And it certainly isn't the case where now these data centers are going to be processing and providing the compute for these authoritarian models. using crony tax credits and a whole variety of other mechanisms. And so this is not, so I'm making a different case than most people make. And you can make a whole variety of other cases for why you don't. want these to be implemented, health concerns, water consumption. You can make all of those arguments. I'm actually making the argument from the perspective of someone who is interested in capitalism and free markets that what is happening here is a technocratic takeover and not free markets. And so I'm trying to add another component to that. And so what I want to do is show you the site. And it's live now. I'm going to say that it's going to be in beta for fifty days as we work through the inevitable bugs and the inevitable issues that come about with the site. Because as always, I have to remind you, I'm creating these things myself. I'm doing all of the tech myself and somehow I'm not managing everything. Seven sites and a US Senate campaign and a whole variety of other things. And so I'm stating up front, I do want your feedback. And in fact, even on the methodology itself, which I have published a... a white paper that explains how I came up with the rankings. And so I very well may have left something out or there may be a better way to do it. So I'm always looking for input on how to make all of this better. But let me tell you what's in here and what the methodology is. So the methodology And just to give you a little background, so the whole purpose of this, it's the first comprehensive state-by-state rating system that measures the degree to which technocratic governance structures have replaced or subverted democratic processes across the United States. And these are the seven dimensions that I have in the weightings. And so, again, these could be These could be changed. I used AI heavily to collect the data and actually think through and analyze all of this. But what I found so far is based on the feedback that I'm getting from people in each of the states as I'm putting out the reporting is that It seems fairly accurate. I mean, I'm sure it's not going to be perfect, but it seems like a pretty good first start. So the seven dimensions are, you know, surveillance. So what is the status of surveillance in your state? Things like face recognition, AI fusion platforms, drones, body cam AI, various regulation gaps. What is the status of your state with respect to digital ID? Real ID compliance, mobile driver's licenses, state digital ID programs, biometric collection, and so forth. Three, what is the state of data centers and tech capture? I will be working on an additional element to this site, which is going to be a map with a full breakdown of all of the data centers. that are that exist currently and that are in the process of being built or going through the legislative process now not all data centers are bad so there's going to be i'm going to get into the to the detail of okay what do these data centers do I mean, because there are applications of data centers that aren't bad, but it turns out it's about providing compute to one of these federally controlled and manipulated databases. Essentially, it's a surveillance system. That's one way of looking at it. What is the state of political connections? One of the things I've been digging into, which is fascinating, is what Peter Thiel is up to as one dimension of this. Peter Thiel and Palantir and their presence. I mean, certainly that's not the only lens, and I will expand that out. But it is my opinion that if anybody is playing five D chess with technocracy, it's Peter Thiel. I don't agree with Peter Thiel, but I will admit that he is smart, he's effective, and he actually thinks things through long in advance. I've been following some of his political stuff for a long time, and it turns out he's making investments in more than just J.D. Vance or the U.S. Senate race. In Arizona, which people know about, he has been placing bets at the state level. I even found in my own state of New Hampshire that he contributed ten thousand dollars to the New Hampshire GOP. So I think what's going to be interesting is to find working with all of you as we kind of crowdsource information on this. what is the influence that's being had at the state legislative level? What is the influence that's going on even at the local level? Because at the local level, it's often town councils, depending upon the structure of your government, that's where the developers in a particular town usually own and bankroll the town council. So there's a way, I'm going to use some of the skills that I acquired working for a decade in New Hampshire on political stuff, I'm going to try to share that knowledge and try to crowdsource different town and state political contributions. Number five, what's the state of public-private partnerships? What's the financial architecture of the state? And what are the civil liberties protections, if any? And so those all go into a score. And so then you can go to state map and you can see. Hold on, let me see what's going on here. All right. All right. You can see here's the state map. It's color coded. You can see which states are ranked in which order. And you can click on your individual state. So, you know, clicking on Ohio. And then that will give you kind of a summary snapshot of how your state ranks and what the overall score is, along with the key bullet point facts. A tweet that you can copy and share maybe to get the story going within your community. So, for instance, in Ohio, Ohio gave Amazon two and a half billion dollars in taxpayer subsidies for data centers that create twenty to two hundred jobs each, while Peter Thiel bought J.D. Vance's Senate seat for thirteen and a half million dollars. Again, each state has their own. Teaser like this, and then if you submit your email address, I will send you a link to a website as well as a PDF that you can download with the full report for your state. Part of the reason I want the email address is a couple things. One, I'm going to send out notices, probably updates at least monthly, but then maybe more frequently if there's some kind of emergency going on. So I want to be able to communicate with everyone and be able to send out updates on a regular basis. The other is I will tell you that I very much have the feeling it feels a lot like twenty twenty with some of the stuff that is going on with social media. And censorship, once again. And I felt it in March of twenty twenty. And I even did a series of fourteen videos, the purpose of which was to teach people to get off of centralized tech for everything from, you know, use library instead of YouTube, use Jitsi instead of Zoom, use cryptocurrency, decentralized cryptocurrencies, use Signal, so on and so forth, because I sensed that the censorship was coming before it did. I mean, not too much before it did because I had Facebook pages and groups that totaled over two hundred thousand followers. And by the end of day five, my reach was capped at fifty. So I have that same feeling again. And, you know, we're already starting to see things like Bitcoin.com, which has had a very popular YouTube channel for a decade and is one of the most popular crypto wallets out there. They were removed from YouTube and they were given some flag that something like they're unsafe and they're dangerous or something along those lines. They've never had a strike. And so this feels a lot like websites that were just getting shut down related to COVID. that were providing information that, you know, at the time, you would have looked at getting the channel banned as, well, this doesn't make sense. What made a lot of sense, ninety days later, when you saw that we were fully moving into lockdown mode and that there were vaccines on the horizon. And so it makes me wonder, something like Bitcoin.com, what might be in store next. But you're also seeing things like There's a bot purge on X, which is good. I mean, the bots aren't great, but then we're seeing things like implementing a facial recognition system for people that want to have their accounts unbanned. And so we already have a heavy level of screening. As I've said time and time again, X was designed, well, not as I've said, as Elon Musk said in a video clip that I played, X was designed to replace WeChat, which is the heart of the social credit system in China. And that's exactly where it's going. So now we're talking about facial recognition, biometrics, algorithms that define freedom of reach, so on and so forth. So you can provide... again, your email and I'll send you the report, which I encourage you to share. And then the next thing I'm going to add to this is a discussion section because I want this to be a place for people to be able to organize and share additional information. But I'm excited about The traction so far, I just did another interview this afternoon. And, you know, this topic came up. And so people have been reading this and talking about it. And so I did an interview with Sarah Westall. which I think will be out, may even be out during this podcast. I think that happened once last time, but we discussed this. So people are passionate about this. And so I encourage you to check it out, technocracyatlas.com. Go to the state map section. So I see that Chris has hopped in. So I'm going to have him pop in. Hey, Chris, how are you? Hey, Aaron, I'm good, thanks. Excellent. Thank you for doing this. Yeah. It's been a while since I've been doing interviews. Hopefully all of my AV is set up. I've got some new things here I haven't used. I can hear you fine. Oops. Sorry. I knocked you off accidentally. I can hear you fine. Everything looks great on my end. Fantastic. I see you've got a lovely AI-generated photo of me and a Past age, looking at the beard. Yeah, I know from talking to you earlier, this isn't your look now, but in any event, I thought we'd go with it. It's good. It looks very polished, very corporate boardroom. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, just before we jump into this, I wanted to say that my audience is fairly used to. And by the way, if you're watching this, please like and share. This is my traffic is getting a bit shadow banned. We should have higher numbers than this. uh by this point so something's happened i don't know how the algorithm works but please like and share this this is incredibly important information uh to get out and like a lot of these cases so i talk about technocracy as the main focal point of this podcast but i also talk about exiting the system, getting out of all of these systems using privacy coins, cryptocurrency, tokenization, private tokenization outside of the system. And then unfortunately, I've had to spend quite a bit of time talking about crypto prisoners of war. which started with Ian Freeman back in twenty twenty three and unfortunately has continued to expand to include Roger Ver and Roman Storm and many, many others. And so so this audience and my normal audience is is fairly familiar with, you know, a lot of these concepts in a. In a general sense, but one of the things I wanted to try to do with this is because I know even when you look at these court cases, like Roman Storm, who had his hearing today as to whether they're going to retry him on some of the charges where there was no definitive conclusion the first time around. When you look at these court cases, oftentimes what happens is the jury has no idea that What's going on? And they don't understand the technical concepts. And so they see the Department of Justice there with five lawyers in suits and they see them showing all of these diagrams and everything else and their eyes glaze over. And in the end, it's just kind of like, you know, either out of a combination of fatigue or it's just, you know, they baffled them with bullshit is another way to describe it. Oftentimes, these people find themselves convicted because the concepts are difficult to understand for a general audience. So what I'm hoping we can do tonight, and the reason I put some of these slides together is I'm planning on making a lot of clips out of this. And so that hopefully we can get some short clips out that hopefully one or more will go viral and then push people forward. to the full interview because the whole story needs to be understood and there are ramifications. Chris's story has incredible ramifications for the entire world and for our ability to engage in voluntary trade outside of a technocratic prison system. So this is really that important. And Fortunately, Chris isn't a prisoner, so this is a rare case where I can actually talk to the person directly and they're not facing immediate incarceration. Not that you haven't had your fair share of challenges, but Chris is actually suing the equivalent of Canada's version of the CIA for a hundred and forty million dollars. And my understanding is that this case is moving forward. So this is huge. This is something that never happens. And my guess is we're going to find that the deep state actors probably move into the entire Five Eyes. This probably digs into the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand, in addition to Canada. So this is really important. I urge you to listen to this. If you have comments along the way, certainly put them in. But my goal here is, to the best I can, to help try to get this story out in a way that that people can understand. And I'll just do a brief background on Chris. Before he was thirty, Chris Horlacher was CFO of Peter Schiff's brokerage firm, managing billions. And so he saw how the securities industry works from the inside. and then tried to fix it so he has an incredible background to be able to do this by the way he was a cpa from deloitte where he was involved with auditing fortune five hundred companies as i said cfo of euro pacific canada which is peter schiff's brokerage uh mesey's institute board member so and austrian economics author i mean how how aligned could that be And then he learned about Bitcoin in twenty ten. So he was one of Canada's earliest adopters, even earlier than me, which is which is great. So this guy is an absolute OG. So with that, welcome. Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me on. Thanks for that great introduction. Absolutely. Absolutely. One thing before we get into this, I want to just refresh. I've talked about this a lot. The great taking. And essentially, you know, the idea and what I've been trying to explain to people is that you already don't own your stocks anymore. And you don't actually have them in your physical possession. And most people don't know how this works. Would you would you mind explaining to people, you know, how kind of seed and co how this whole high level system works and kind of the scam behind how securities work? Yeah, yeah. And you said something, you used an old saying called, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. And the world of finance and economics loves jargon. And they use jargon to conceal how they operate. And the fact that what they're doing is not actually particularly unique or difficult is one of the many things I've learned working in this industry. But essentially the same model of central banking and money creation exists in the world of securities. They just call them different things. So instead of like a Forex market, you have a stock market. Instead of banks, you have brokerages. Instead of clearing houses, you have transfer agents. And instead of central banks, you have central depositories. And the depositories are the ultimate legal owner. This is where your company like Seed & Co comes from. They are the registered owner of over ninety percent, I would say, of all the publicly traded securities in the country. And this is done Basically, by law, from a system that was set up in the We had this problem called the paper blizzard in the nineteen seventies where Wall Street, Bay Street, the securities market or the securities industry is just choking on its own output. They literally cannot take all of these traded securities, cancel and reissue them under the new owners. That was the old model. And when you have your name on a stock certificate, that's called direct registration. In the nineteen eighties, they couldn't maintain this system with couriers and basically just couriers biking backpacks full of paper all over downtown New York or Bay Street in Canada or Vancouver. So to fix the mess. they decided well we're just going to have one single owner of all of the securities and then we're going to have uh credits or beneficial interests uh in these and these that that the account that you have at your broker is a lot like the account that you have at your bank you do you you have the cash and the cash is like the stock certificate you give that to your banker And it's not yours anymore. The bank is going to take that. They're going to lend it out, whatever they do with it to make a fat spread. And you, in return, just get a credit on the bank's balance sheet that you call the bank account. But the bank calls it a liability. And we trade around these liabilities of banks as if they were cash, which incidentally is also the liability of a bank. It's the liability of the central bank, the Federal Reserve or the Bank of Canada or the ECB or whatever you have in your area. And so this system was transplanted into the securities market around that time. And we've kind of hobbled along ever since. But there are some obvious problems to this, particularly when one of the major institutions goes bankrupt, like a Lehman Brothers or an MF Global. And you have a problem because whenever somebody goes bust, you have three days of executed trades that are still up in the air that you haven't settled. And now one of the counterparties is gone. or the person who is supposed to be processing that settlement is gone. So how do we, somebody has got to sweep in, figure out where all of this stuff is supposed to go and then hopefully get it right. And that takes lawyers and accountants and all of those all big legal process. So, and you know, it's a mess. We saw that, twenty eleven Lehman Brothers, Terrible time to be a client of... Sorry, MF Global. Terrible time to be a client of John Corzine. But this is what we have, folks. It's the same system. And so just like the banks are lending out your cash and it's being lent out to multiple people, the brokers are doing the same thing, only they don't call it... they just call it rehypothecation or hypothecation. And so this is especially true if you own securities in a margin account, because of course, I think we all know or ought to know that all the securities in a margin account is the collateral on that margin loan. And so, yeah, it's technically the broker's securities at this point. They're going to lend them out to other people who want a short sell or... do whatever, whatever you need to borrow security for. And so it introduces a lot of transactions into the system that otherwise actually wouldn't happen. Finance is very boring, folks. If we got rid of most of the problems with money, a lot of what you see in the marketplace is not going to happen because so much of it is people trying to stay ahead of the debasement of the currency. So you get back to more, I guess, traditional vehicles of saving and actually like whole insurance was super popular way back in the day, because not only did you have something that functioned a lot like a savings account, but you had insurance coverage that came along with it and you could borrow against the built-up value of your insurance policy these days though people call that infinite banking and i don't know why but it is what it is whole life insurance folks check it out it works it's worked for a hundred years a lot of wealthy families still use it because it works they they do what works they've survived this long because what they do works But back to this system, I spent a lot of time hands-on with it at Euro Pacific. And it's called, in the world of brokerages, it's called the back-offense or the post-trade cycle. And a lot of people's attention spans end at the exchanges and the brokerages, and they don't open the hood and look into what is happening after the exchange has executed your trade. And what happens is all of these executed orders are batched together and sent off to another company called a transfer agent. And just like a clearinghouse, the transfer agents are looking at all of these movements of securities from one account into another account, and it's netting everything and then coming up with the net settlement. And then that is sent to the depository, who then updates the beneficial owners of each of these groups of securities. And so you have this daisy chain sandwich of risk And if any part of it collapses, it's big trouble. For that reason, a lot of depositories are actually the government. They're a crown corporation. They're a federally registered corporation. They're like the Federal Reserve. and they operate with a government monopoly. That is not the case in Canada or the United States. They write some regulations and then you can, if you fit into that, operating model, then you can pay for the right licenses, then you get to start a depository. But your job's not done there. You still need to go to the exchanges and say, you know, please allow me to act as a custodian or as a depository. so if you look up uh if you go to like the new york stock exchange or you go to nasdaq or the tmx and you look up you can you can just search for the list of authorized depositories and this is important if you're an issuer because that's who you deliver what's called a master certificate to so a master certificate say i'm say i'm google or apple or whatever and i want to issue a billion shares And I'm not going to write, I'm not going to break that billion up piecemeal and write out, you know, thousands or tens of thousands or millions of share certificates. I write one single certificate for one billion shares in the name of seed and company. And then that gets shipped off to the depository and it kind of just sits there in a warehouse forever. Super exciting stuff, guys. And that's how this works. And then the next layer I mentioned were the transfer agents and the transfer agents They're the clearing houses, the bookkeepers. From the issuer's side, if I want to do an earnings distribution, again, I don't know who to mail the checks to. All I know, my only shareholder is Seed & Company, as far as I know. So I write a big fat check for the total amount of the distribution to the transfer agent who then parcels it out and mails out the individual checks or does the bank transfers to the ultimate beneficial owners. And so we have a system fraught with risk, eliminating counterparty risk, especially after the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was a very, very big focus. That changed the way we audited companies and we implemented lots of new policies and procedures and now evaluating counterparty risk became a part of this. So if I was a company and I had a hedging portfolio full of interest rate swaps or currency futures or something, then previous to the two thousand eight collapse, We would not necessarily look at this, but now we start we had we started to because now counterparty risk was the name of the game. And so you had to look at all of the underwriters of those swaps who was going to pay out if these things went into the green. And are they capable? Are they liquid? Or are these guys just gonna evaporate the moment you call them up and say, oh, we're activating our swap now, and you have to start paying us instead of us paying you. And if they're the kind of organization that's just gonna vanish into nothing, as soon as that starts happening to any respectable degree, it's like redemptions on a Ponzi scheme at this point. It will cause it to instantaneously collapse. And so actually, your billion-dollar hedging portfolio, sir, is not worth a billion dollars because the people underwriting it don't even have a billion dollars. So we really started examining that. And it got to the point for me where I like, it just looked like a mess and is this big giant mess, lots of problems, just trying to just limp its way forward. And then Bitcoin came along and, and it landed on my radar right after it started gaining some monetary value. And that was about mid-twenty-ten, right after the Bitcoin pizza. I still celebrate Bitcoin Pizza Day. It was the day I found out about Bitcoin, the day my life changed. For better or for worse, we're still figuring that part out. We all are. Yeah. And almost instantly, because I was already up to my eyeballs in the securities industry, and I realized instantaneously, whoa, this tech... This blockchain thing, if it can do money, it can do all intangible assets. And that was really the key application of the tech for me was in intangible assets. A lot of people are using it for real estate now, real estate titles, car titles. Cool. Great. But you still have a reconciliation that needs to be done with the real world, and you can't use that system to enforce your property rights. government comes along and says we're taking your house sorry get the fuck out That's that. And you can wave your blockchain or your private keys or your wallet in their face as long as you want, but they're still gonna take your house. So the intangible asset application was a big deal for me. And knowing that the securities industry was as big as it was, it's an order of magnitude larger than the money markets. And we haven't even considered the unlisted companies yet. So worldwide on all public stock exchanges, about ten thousand companies, there's hundreds of thousands of companies trading over the counter. And that was really where I really wanted to introduce this system because of a lot of people tend to perceive, again, things just. from what they know. Most people don't know a depository or transfer agent. They've never dealt with one. And so they assume it was, I was rolling out something like what they did know, which was an exchange. And so a lot of regulators would come to me and ask me about the exchange or my platform. And I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? We're software developers. We're not a financial institution. We don't match orders. We don't execute anything. We don't hold anybody else's assets. We write code. End of story. That's all we do. But the regulators didn't want to hear that because, of course, they can't tell me how to run my business if all my business is writing code. So that was sort of the beginning, I think, of our hot and cold relationship. Yeah, so I just want to say a couple things before we move into this too much further. It's my understanding that the CEO of Seed and Company is ex-CIA. Is that true to your knowledge? I don't know personally who that is, but I would not be surprised. The financial industry is infested with intel agents, informants, officers, and just your run-of-the-mill communists because communists love other people's money and that's where you go to get other people's money. That they do. And so, you know, so we've talked about the great taking on the show and the fact that in the US, all fifty states have made changes to their UCC laws that that make it so that next time there's a collapse, which there's likely to be possibly imminently. everything that Chris was talking about. I mean, if your broker goes under, they've made it actually easier for secured creditors to end up with the economic ownership in the investments that you think that you own with a particular preference for larger banks and kind of too big to fail banks. So this is a... Right. Because the big brokerages and the big banks are typically the ones that actually provide the margin. And so they will do that... with the secure and the knowledge that that broker's entire book of assets is on the chopping block just to satisfy them before any account holder. Yep. So this is important to know. So I often say on the show, I'm glad you're on here to explain it in more detail, but I'm like, you do not own, you don't own the money in your bank account. You don't own Chances are you don't own these financial instruments. Again, ten percent of the time you might. But, you know, usually they're through these multiple third parties. And now I'm curious before we move in. So I got involved with a blockchain called Ravencoin in, I think, late two thousand eighteen, two thousand nineteen. Where are where are you with what you were doing in terms of timeline? Well, the project's dead. We have no funding. We have no employees. It's just me and the lawyers prosecuting the case. I think probably if I actually tried to start up the project again, I would be attacked immediately. relentlessly because of the panic that I am seeing from the other side of this lawsuit. The tactics that they've employed have been absolutely shameful and just downright illegal. Some of the things they're doing will land them in jail under criminal sentences for life in prison. some of the things that they've done. So I guess the incentive to stop me from doing anything at all apparently is very high in the halls of the Canadian government within the Five Eyes community. And I mean, I don't necessarily know why, because I mean, if they can handle Bitcoin, I'm sure they could handle the Equibit system. So yeah, I think surveillance-wise, I don't think the Equibit system necessarily threatened what they were doing because it's a fully open transparent system and you don't need to recruit brokers and exchanges to tell you what's happening in the marketplace. You could just go look yourself and anybody else can. So it really kind of epitomized the stated virtues of these financial regulators. But what about the unstated virtues? And that's where you have to start thinking, well, and this is where the great taking happens. comes in and you have these entrenched big players in the industry that don't ever want to take a loss it's the whole reason why they pushed to have a central bank as that lender of last resort meaning bailouts and it was never there for anything other than bailouts yeah so i when i got involved with ravencoin the the idea behind ravencoin was uh and you know actually just i sent a text right now to bruce fenton who was one of the co-founders of that uh blockchain it was a fork of bitcoin but he was working with patrick byrne and patrick byrne had started a company started a company called t-zero and patrick byrne's whole idea was hey We have all this naked short selling going on in the market and Wall Street doesn't want transparency because there's a whole bunch of, you know, shenanigans going on behind the scenes. So the original idea was, hey, let's take, you know, it sounds like you already had the idea, but take, you know, Bitcoin, Bitcoin transparency and a blockchain that doesn't require third parties. And let's apply it to a whole variety of to everything, not just, you know, securities. But he actually created a a Koretsu of companies that were working on everything from supply chain for agriculture. He created something called the Blockchain Tech Stack for Human Civilization. His idea was you could apply this to voting. You could apply it to capital markets, land registration. Anything could be tokenized and Ravencoin was positioned to be the blockchain for that. It was an open source project, no corporate structure, so on and so forth. And I'm interested in the parallels between your stories because I had, if you go back to season one, episode four of The Aaron Day Show, I did an interview with Stephen Nerioff, who was... was arrested in the middle of the night by eleven FBI agents and was threatened, threatened and told that if he didn't basically turn over information or give dirt on a laundry list of people. including Roger Ver and Patrick Byrne and Bruce Fenton, that he'd never see his kids again. And so he's currently suing the U.S. government for just a massive amount of money. They ended up dropping the charges. But one of the things that they were really trying to pressure him on was that his claim anyway was that he created the legal structure behind the security token model as opposed to an ICO actually doing a legitimate STO. And he claims to have created the legal structure behind that. And claims that they were trying to take down Patrick Byrne. And this was in twenty nineteen as part of this whole thing. And so I bring this up because I think it might be interesting to compare notes. If we're looking at this from the perspective of kind of the five eyes more broadly, it seems very clear. that any effort to uh get involved with the trading of securities in a way that is truly peer-to-peer that gets rid of these third parties there has been massive effort um to stop that you know more aggressive reckless and just in your face criminal than anything that ever came out of the banking industry against bitcoin or or any of the cryptocurrencies I was really shocked by just the absolute brazenness of the regulator. And I have them on tape. We were the first ICO of Canada, the Equibit Group ICO. If you ask the Ontario Securities Commission, they're going to say it was this other company, but that was just one company that went to them ahead of time and said, oh, please let it, they tried to, they did it like an IPO and they went and they got a pre-approval and they went through, they jumped through a whole bunch of regulatory hoops. But what I was doing was a true, what I consider a true ICO. We were pre-mining a mineable open source blockchain. So these used to be called pre-mines, pre-mine sales. That's a true ICO, at least in my opinion. Others don't necessarily agree, but it is what it is. But that's what we were doing. And as far as I was concerned, or as far as any of the other security lawyers in the world were concerned, this was a software pre-sale. And software presales are a thing that have existed. Lots of software projects get funded with presales. So you just get a... you get the first release of the software, you get it, maybe you get it early or you get it at a discount. So, you know, you paid fifty bucks in the presale for a piece of software that is going to retail for eighty bucks. Things like that. No securities regulator ever stepped in to any of these things. No, but no securities regulator ever stepped in to stop a condo presale either. But Again, this is the same thing. You're paying for me to build a property for you. And whether that's real property or digital property, at least legally, philosophically, shouldn't matter. But that was not the agenda. The agenda was we're going to use securities regulators to stop all development of this technology. Anybody who tries to raise money for this technology, put an end to it, lickety split by any means necessary. And yeah, the whole OSC experience was just wacky. After I delivered the speech at an event in Toronto called TechTO, I was speaking to a room of like seven, eight hundred bankers and lawyers and accountants and people who worked in the financial industry. And I delivered a speech. And right afterwards, I was approached by a partner and an associate from a very big law firm in Canada called Davies Ward Phillips and Weinberg. They became the company's external counsel. And they liked what we were working on because, of course, they did a lot of securities transactions. They're the people creating all of that paperwork, and they freaking hated it. They wanted me to finish this system so that they could then introduce it to all of their clients. And they weren't the only law firm that wanted to start doing this and big firms and asset managers. We had one asset manager who wanted to migrate their entire portfolio onto Equibit that was managing over a trillion dollars. But so big money wanted to use this. And so naturally we had to be stopped. But we set to work kind of analyzing the Equibit coin from a securities law standpoint because we wanted to do a presale. And they were pretty convinced that there was... Oh, sorry, my... Okay, thank you. They were convinced... Sorry, it might be my nanny. It's just telling me one of my kids has fallen asleep. But so we wanted to do this. We wanted to do the presale. We analyzed the shit out of it. And they concluded not a security. So that's that. No need for registration. No need for a prospectus, anything like that. We went to the OSC in December, we had a meeting with the leaders of a group in there called Launchpad, which turns out to be an entrapment scheme. Literally every company that went to this group in the OSC was ultimately destroyed. And we met with the head of Launchpad and their top legal person and presented the whole system to them, which by all accounts, they loved. They said, this is cool. This is really interesting. Keep going. And I asked them, well, do you think the coin is a security? And they declined to comment. They just said, ask some lawyers. And OK, well, we've already been to the top law firm in the country. They say it's not a security. So it sounds like we've got our green light to proceed. And we did. And we opened up the presale in February of twenty seventeen. And a couple of weeks into it, we get an email from the Ontario Securities Commission. Oh, we've received an anonymous tip. that you might be engaged in in the unregistered uh or the sale of unregistered securities and we need to talk to you or you blah blah blah blah blah and you need to start answering all of our questions because we might begin an enforcement action against you And so we start talking to them and all of our audio recorders are running. And not only did we get them to admit they had not read anything in our terms and conditions, they hadn't read our white paper, they'd literally done no research on us at all before calling us and taking action. And they were pretending like we never even... were at their offices like two months ago. And so they weren't, we got them to admit that. And then we got them to tell us, well, go ahead and finish your presale, which we did of course. And then a few months after that, they slapped us with an enforcement action for conducting the presale. So of course we, play their own words right back to them. And then that enforcement action immediately vanishes. And I guess at this point, the deep state realized, oh, well, we can't take this guy down via an entrapment scheme. So we're just going to destroy the company. And so one of my, as it turns out, one of my business partners was a CSIS officer. And I had known this man for years before I even started the Equibit project. We met in twenty ten shortly after I had conceived of the idea and I had mentioned