Latest / NO FILTER / JRE MMA Show _175 with Shakur Stevenson

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JRE MMA Show _175 with Shakur Stevenson · NO FILTER

0:04
Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
0:06
Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. Well, anyway,
0:13
thanks for coming down here, man. Appreciate it. And congratulations
0:17
on that standout performance against Tiafimo. Because that was a
0:23
giant wake-up call for the entirety of boxing. The level
0:28
that you're on, was it so high that you could
0:30
be in there with a world champion... A world champion
0:34
and make him a guy who beat, I mean, legit guys,
0:39
including Lomachenko.
0:41
Speaker 1: Yeah.
0:41
Speaker 2: It was a big victory for him. And you made
0:43
him look like he had no business in there.
0:45
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's just hard work, dedication, and God-given ability. God-given ability.
0:55
Speaker 2: I think you have all that plus intelligence plus you
0:59
start real young. And there's something about those dudes who
1:02
start real young. You grow up with that. It's, like,
1:06
in your central nervous system as you're a young child. Yeah.
1:09
I mean, would you start boxing at, like, five?
1:11
Speaker 1: I started boxing at five, but honestly, you could say
1:14
the same for Tio, too, because he kind of started at, like, seven.
1:19
We both was kind of similar in, like, experience, but
1:24
I just feel like with me, the God-given ability of
1:28
my instincts always kick in, like, When we fought, I
1:31
felt like my brain just knew how to win. Everything
1:38
was just like my instincts kicked in and everything just
1:40
took over. I didn't even... It felt like an out-of-body experience.
1:45
Speaker 2: Well, you're a very tactical guy. One of the things
1:50
I love about watching you fight is I love watching
1:53
a guy who sets traps... And who avoids damage. And
1:57
you are one of the absolute very best ever at
2:00
setting traps and avoid damage. You take so few punches
2:03
in your fights. There was that one fight, recent fight,
2:06
where you decided to stand with that dude. Who was that?
2:09
Speaker 1: William Zepeda.
2:10
Speaker 2: That's right. Zepeda's a tough guy, man. He is. But
2:13
you fought that in a different way. Did you do
2:15
that on purpose?
2:17
Speaker 1: It was partly on purpose and partly to get his respect.
2:22
Because I really didn't have a choice but to get
2:24
his respect. Because if I had to try to outbox
2:27
him and move around the ring, I probably would have
2:29
made the fight harder than it had to be. So
2:32
I knew, like, I got to, like, make him respect
2:35
me early. And that's what I kind of, like, started
2:37
the fight hot.
2:39
Speaker 2: Why would it make it harder than it had to
2:41
be if you boxed him?
2:43
Speaker 1: Because sometimes when you, like, a guy, like, if you
2:46
watch today's boxing, judges give the fight to mostly the
2:49
guys that's coming forward.
2:51
Speaker 2: So.
2:52
Speaker 1: If I'd have went in there and bagging up and
2:54
moving around the ring while he was more active, it
2:57
probably would have looked as though he's winning the fight.
3:02
So I had to make sure, like, the judges know
3:05
who's winning. So I kind of had to take some
3:08
in order to give some in that fight.
3:11
Speaker 2: That was a very unusual fight for you. I saw
3:13
an interview with you after that fight where you're like,
3:15
I'm not fighting like that again. Fuck that.
3:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I know, like, I see the modern day,
3:22
the old school boxers and the punishment that they've taken.
3:27
You'll see them today, they can't really talk as well
3:30
as the Andre Wars and the Floyd Mayweather who can
3:35
talk good and still articulate things to their grandparents, to
3:40
their grandchildren, to their children. For me personally, I want
3:45
to make sure that I'm able to really speak. well
3:49
to my kids and my grandkids and all of that
3:51
so taking punishment ain't for.
3:53
Speaker 2: Me like yeah i support that 100 and i applaud
3:59
fighters like you for setting an example for young fighters
4:02
coming up like defense and tactics and understanding the game
4:08
is the most important thing these guys that want to
4:10
put on an entertaining fight and just go in there
4:12
and slug it out like Man, you are giving up
4:15
your brain for some people who don't give a fuck
4:17
about you. Oh, my God.
4:19
Speaker 1: That's the God's honest truth right there. I be seeing
4:22
a lot of fighters nowadays where they stand there like
4:25
punching bags and let people hit on them. You'll see
4:28
them after the fight, they marked up. In a few years,
4:33
I don't think that they're going to be able to
4:34
speak as well as somebody like me.
4:37
Speaker 2: No, there's a bunch of examples of that, obviously. We
4:39
could all see it. But, you know, it's a complicated sport.
4:42
And for... People that don't understand the sport and don't
4:47
appreciate the sport, they just see two dudes punching each other.
4:50
But they don't see subtle movements. And you were doing this, like,
4:54
half-out jab and then popping him with it. And you
4:57
could tell he had no idea it was coming. It
5:00
was so frustrating for Teofimo. I was watching, I was like,
5:04
there was a bunch of times where I was watching
5:06
and I just was yelling out by myself in my
5:08
house going, woohoo! That check right hook, ooh! It was
5:13
so pretty, man. You hit him with some pretty shots,
5:15
but it was, it was just you were just tuning
5:18
him up it was it was a beautiful performance man
5:20
because it was everything that i love in boxing yeah
5:24
skill movement understanding ring iq knowing what's happening and every
5:30
time he would get fired up and try to take
5:32
it to you the most he could do is touch
5:34
your body yeah it's all he was able to do.
5:37
Speaker 1: Uh honestly i for me personally i feel like i'm
5:41
like The best fighter in boxing. And I don't mean
5:44
this in no disrespectful way because I got a lot
5:47
of fighters in boxing that I still watch to this
5:49
day that I like. And I'm like, okay, I'm going
5:52
to steal this. Usyk, I love Usyk. I love Usyk.
5:56
I love Bavar. I love them Eastern European styles. But
6:02
for me, I just feel like I'm a fighter that
6:04
can do it all. I can do it all. Whatever
6:07
needs to be done to get the job done, I
6:10
can do that. So some nights you might see I
6:14
might outbox people. Then some nights I might stand there
6:17
and beat a guy up and beat them at their
6:20
own game. So I think for me, I'm the most
6:23
complete fighter in boxing.
6:24
Speaker 2: Well, that mindset is what you need, especially in a
6:27
sport where you've dominated divisions. Yeah. Right? So if you've
6:30
dominated divisions and you're still looking to achieve a higher level,
6:34
you can't just look at the guys that are your competitors.
6:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
6:37
Speaker 2: Because... At 135, it was so hard for you to
6:40
get fights. Yeah. At 140 now, what are you going
6:42
to do? You just do that to Teofimo?
6:45
Speaker 1: It scared a lot of people.
6:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nobody wants to look stupid. I mean, Teofimo's had
6:51
some good fights in the past, and he's lost in
6:53
the past, but he's never looked out of place. Yeah.
6:56
And he looked out of place in that fight.
6:58
Speaker 1: It's crazy, though, because when I seen him, when he
7:00
fought in New York on the Times Square card, I'm like, man,
7:04
this dude is nice. Like, I'm sitting there, I'm.
7:06
Speaker 2: Like, whoa, like.
7:08
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe how good he was, but it kind
7:11
of just made me get up. I'm like, okay, I
7:16
want to see what he can do with me. Because
7:18
the way he made Arnold Barboza look in New York
7:20
was like, he just made him look like he's not
7:23
on his level.
7:24
Speaker 2: Well, he wasn't on his level, but then Tia Fimo's
7:26
not on your level. I mean, this is the beautiful
7:28
thing about competitive sports, especially boxing, this one-on-one, which I
7:32
think is the purest form of competition, boxing and MMA.
7:35
is that you can show that as great as a
7:38
fighter is, like people could watch the Teofimo fight and
7:41
have no idea how good he is. Yeah, for sure.
7:43
And I would say, go watch the Barboza fight. Go
7:45
watch the Lomachenko fight. Go watch many of his fights.
7:48
The guy was an excellent fighter. Still is an excellent fighter.
7:52
But there are levels.
7:53
Speaker 1: Yes.
7:54
Speaker 2: And the mindset that you have, I am the best
7:57
fighter in the world, period, is what allows you to
8:02
beat guys like that. That and the hard work.
8:05
Speaker 1: For sure. Like I said, I'm God-given, and I work
8:09
super hard. I think the biggest thing that I don't
8:13
get credit for is my discipline. I feel like I'm
8:16
very disciplined when it comes down to making the sacrifices
8:22
and making the life changes that I need to make
8:25
in order to be 100% on fight night. And I
8:28
feel like a lot of people don't give me. I mean,
8:30
they don't know.
8:31
Speaker 2: They don't know. That's all it is.
8:33
Speaker 1: I be seeing fans tweet. And they'd be like, oh,
8:35
get off Twitter or get off social media. But I'd
8:38
be on social media, like, right after I just left
8:41
the gym. I'm like, what's the problem? I'm just talking
8:44
my talk on social media right now. Like, let me live.
8:48
Speaker 2: Well, people are always looking to criticize. But there's no
8:50
way you can have the kind of performances that you're having.
8:53
Speaker 1: And not be locked in.
8:53
Speaker 2: And not be locked in. It's not possible, especially over
8:56
12 rounds. Because, I mean, you know better than anybody
9:00
alive that the kind of discipline that it takes to
9:02
be in the kind of condition that you have to
9:04
be in to fight 12 hard rounds. They put on
9:07
a virtuoso performance. So it's like... It's crazy, though.
9:11
Speaker 1: Everybody, like... Like, y'all love the performance because y'all got
9:15
to see it that day. But, like, for me, when
9:19
I'm in the gym, it's still levels that I feel
9:21
like I haven't got to show to the world. Like,
9:25
I kind of only really shown, like, 70% of, like,
9:31
what I really could do. And I feel like with
9:34
that performance, it was just like, okay, this is like
9:37
an okay day in the gym. Like an okay day.
9:41
It ain't like my best day in the gym. Like
9:43
I have like days in the gym where I'm like, ooh.
9:47
I don't know how I just did that, but I'm
9:49
just like on point. So it was a good day though.
9:52
Speaker 2: The thing is you're getting better.
9:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
9:54
Speaker 2: You know, that's the thing. It's like those days that
9:56
you have in the gym and this performance and the
9:58
mindset that you have. Yeah. not saying i did it
10:02
all not seeing okay virtuoso performance still only 70 of
10:07
what you're capable of that's what takes a guy from
10:10
being a very good fighter to being an all-time great
10:13
yeah And it's a matter of maintaining that over years
10:17
and years and years that is so difficult for people.
10:21
And discipline is where that comes in. Enthusiasm and motivation
10:25
is great in the beginning. A lot of people have
10:27
enthusiasm and motivation in the beginning, but it's, when have
10:30
you been a champ for five years, six years? The
10:33
grind of it all, the 12-week training camp away from
10:37
your family. People don't think about that.
10:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I'm kind of glad that I got the,
10:44
All of the things that happened in my career where
10:47
I had a little trials and tribulations happened early. So
10:50
when I had my hand problem and I had like
10:54
a fight where I didn't perform as well as I
10:57
wanted to, it kind of got me prepared for like now.
11:01
Now it's like I'm 100% on top of my game.
11:04
Like you're not going to be able to like beat
11:07
me without me being like fully prepared. Like you're going
11:11
to have to be a bad dude to come in
11:14
the ring and beat me. Like, cause I just don't
11:17
see it happening with none of these guys.
11:19
Speaker 2: Well, it's like how far you've gone, right? Like you
11:22
started off at five and been intensely focused for all
11:26
these years.
11:26
Speaker 1: How old are you now?
11:28
Speaker 2: 20, 28, 28, which is prime.
11:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
11:31
Speaker 2: That's it. Like 28 to like 34 is the best year.
11:36
But then again, you look at Terrence, I mean, he's
11:40
at an age where a lot of people say it's over,
11:42
and he put on the performance of his career against Canelo.
11:46
Speaker 1: I don't know how he do it. He's like a
11:48
different human being.
11:50
Speaker 2: He's so smart.
11:51
Speaker 1: If I'm honest, he is like the reason. I'm not
11:55
going to say he's the reason why I am who
11:57
I am today, but he brought my game from where
12:01
it was at to a very high level, and he
12:05
don't even realize he done that. Like, me just being
12:09
in the gym able to watch him and pick up on, like,
12:11
the little things that he doing, his bad days, his
12:14
good days, his... I'm seeing everything. And, like, when he
12:18
come out there on fight night, how prepared and how ready,
12:21
how confident. Like, honestly, that dude kind of... He put
12:26
me into a whole different world now to where I'm like, oh,
12:31
I can. I can beat anybody. I can get in
12:33
there with Terrence Crawford, and if I can spar with him,
12:37
I can... How are you going to hurt me? How
12:40
are you going to beat me? I'm in the ring
12:42
with the best fighter in the world.
12:44
Speaker 2: One of the best of all time. You feel me? Yeah,
12:46
one of the best of all. And one of the
12:48
most versatile of all time. Yes. Because that's a guy
12:51
who switches up left, right.
12:53
Speaker 1: There's nothing he can't do in a boxing ring.
12:55
Speaker 2: Nothing. Nothing he can't do. And the way he sets
12:58
people up, we were talking during the podcast I did
13:01
with him. He did this one sneaky thing where he
13:04
was throwing a straight left right And then Canelo would
13:07
go to counter and he would hook it right off
13:10
of the punch. Like on the extension, Canelo would lean
13:13
back to counter and pop and catch him on the chin.
13:16
You could see it. It's like, oh, my God, that's pretty.
13:18
Speaker 1: I've never seen him throw that punch until Canelo, though.
13:21
That's the crazy part.
13:23
Speaker 2: Being in the gym with another guy who's an all-time
13:27
great pound-for-pound best, that is so valuable. And so many
13:32
guys don't like that because they don't want to be
13:36
the second best, or they don't want to be in
13:39
there with someone who's as good as them. You know
13:41
what I mean? Like, iron sharpens iron.
13:44
Speaker 1: For sure.
13:44
Speaker 2: And for you to be a young guy who have
13:46
a guy who's 10 years older than you, have a
13:49
guy who's further down the path and be able to
13:52
see him and absorb all that, that's better than any
13:56
coach in the world.
13:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's been going on for years. It ain't
14:00
just a new thing. People don't understand. When I was 19...
14:05
Years old, I was around Terrence.
14:07
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
14:07
Speaker 1: I was at his house playing him in 2K. We'd
14:12
go to the gym, argue. Like, he really one of
14:15
the most competitive persons I ever met in my entire life.
14:19
Speaker 2: You have to be.
14:20
Speaker 1: I just never, like, for me, I just know for
14:23
a fact my game has up because of that dude.
14:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. It has to. It's also... You're seeing this level
14:32
that is so high in boxing. Like, you can compare it.
14:36
You could go back and look at Sugar Ray Leonard.
14:39
You can look at Pernell Whitaker. You look at all
14:41
these guys, and you can compare Terrence to the people
14:44
that the pundits sit down and say all-time greats. Terrence
14:48
is unquestionably an all-time great.
14:49
Speaker 1: He might even be better than them.
14:50
Speaker 2: He might be. He might be.
14:52
Speaker 1: All due respect to the legends.
14:53
Speaker 2: I agree with you.
14:54
Speaker 1: He is that good.
14:55
Speaker 2: He's that good. I feel like there's a thing that
14:59
was happening before the Canelo fight where a lot of
15:02
people were sort of dismissing his previous opponents and saying
15:05
he never beat anybody and Canelo's another level. I know
15:09
a lot of people bet a lot of money on Canelo.
15:11
I was like, that's not a good bet.
15:13
Speaker 1: Man, it seemed like that's the thing in boxing to
15:16
where it's like, hmm. If they don't know the opponents,
15:20
if you're not fighting somebody that's, like, a bigger name,
15:23
they makes it seem like the opponents is not good. Exactly.
15:27
And that's, like, not true. Because at the end of
15:29
the day, it's low-level opponents that don't get the type
15:33
of shine that the high-level opponents get, but they will
15:37
beat the high-level opponent. And are they really high-level opponents
15:42
at this point?
15:43
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know. Well, there's high... There's high level
15:47
and then there's the elite of the elite, right? Yeah,
15:50
for sure. There's always that. There's like some guys that
15:52
if they're in, like I always said that about Roy
15:55
Jones during his prime. Like everybody said, Roy Jones didn't
15:57
find anybody. Not true. Roy Jones just made everybody look
16:02
like they weren't anybody. Yeah, for sure. Because he was
16:06
so elite. And that's kind of the problem that Terrence
16:10
was facing up until the Canelo fight. Because when a
16:13
guy goes up two weight classes all the way up
16:16
to 68. He's crazy. Right, I mean, starts his career
16:20
at 35.
16:20
Speaker 1: He's crazy.
16:20
Speaker 2: Last fight, he fights at 68 and then puts on
16:23
a virtuoso performance. Virtual shutout. Maybe Canelo won one round.
16:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:29
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, then everybody has to shut the
16:31
fuck up.
16:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, he shut everybody up because you had to see, like,
16:35
he used to say that he wouldn't fight Canelo. Like,
16:38
he used to be like, oh, Canelo's too big, I
16:40
wouldn't fight him. Then, like, it's like, out of nowhere,
16:43
he had to change his mind and, like, he just
16:45
went and attacked the situation and It was a bad
16:49
situation to be in. Like, you're going to go fight
16:51
somebody two weight classes higher, punch hard.
16:54
Speaker 2: Bigger than you.
16:56
Speaker 1: You're going to go do that? So, for me, he just,
17:00
dude is amazing.
17:01
Speaker 2: He's amazing. And another amazing example for young fighters. You know,
17:06
incredibly disciplined, never out of shape, and has all his faculties.
17:11
Don't smoke, don't drink. Doesn't do anything. All his faculties intact,
17:14
and he's leaving the game with 100%. no undefeated record,
17:20
no questions asked, fought everybody. There's no one lining up
17:24
to fight him right now. He's older, and he did
17:28
it all, and he came out unscathed. Bye-bye.
17:30
Speaker 1: That's my biggest goal.
17:32
Speaker 2: It's a perfect goal.
17:33
Speaker 1: My biggest goal is to leave boxing, and when I
17:36
leave boxing, be good enough, well, not good enough, great
17:42
enough financially to where I don't ever have to get
17:44
back in the boxing ring. Like, I don't want to
17:46
be one of them fighters that's like, need boxing. Like,
17:50
I hate that. Like, that's my biggest pet peeve. Like,
17:53
as long as I'm having fun with boxing, I want
17:55
to be doing it. But once it's not fun no more,
17:58
I don't want to have to, like, oh, we got
18:01
this $ 20 million payday. I need it. And I don't
18:06
want to feel that way, so.
18:08
Speaker 2: Like Floyd. Yeah. Like the situation that Floyd's in right now.
18:11
This is crazy. I was having a conversation with a
18:13
friend of mine right now, and he's like, why is
18:15
Floyd fighting again? I go, because he needs money. He
18:17
was like, What?
18:18
Speaker 1: How?
18:19
Speaker 2: Floyd made more money than anybody ever. It's like, yeah,
18:22
but he spent more money than everybody ever.
18:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I try to stay out of that because I
18:26
don't know, like, the real situation with Floyd because I'm
18:30
not really in tune on it. But the only thing
18:35
with Floyd that's kind of weird to me is, like,
18:39
he loves boxing so much. Like, you got to actually
18:41
be around him. Like, he want to be in the gym.
18:44
He want to, like. So it'd be hard for me
18:47
to just believe, like, okay, he's just dead broke. Like,
18:50
I don't know. It's hard to believe that.
18:52
Speaker 2: Well, if he's not dead broke, he's definitely got issues. Yeah.
18:58
Speaker 1: Right?
18:59
Speaker 2: So he's got a bunch of lawsuits where he owes money.
19:01
You know, Logan Paul says he owes him money. He
19:04
owes money for some other things. I don't know. I'm
19:06
with you. I don't know. But it's also, it's like,
19:09
I like a guy like Andre Ward. I like a
19:11
guy who goes out on top and, you know, they
19:14
offered Andre a ton of money to come back and
19:16
fight Canelo after Canelo beat Kovalev. Yeah. And he was like,
19:19
you know what? I think I serve boxing better as
19:21
a commentator and a spokesperson for the sport. I made
19:24
plenty of money. I'm undefeated. Two-division world champion, Olympic gold medalist. Bye-bye.
19:29
That's it. All faculties intact. No worries about his brain
19:34
health and everything like that. That's the way to go out.
19:36
Speaker 1: Andre Ward is another dude who helped my career. Yeah? Yeah.
19:40
He helped my career a lot, too. If I need something, right?
19:47
Let's say I need something and I need to find it.
19:50
figure out how to do it or what to do
19:53
in a situation with weight or whatever it is when
19:55
it comes to boxing, if I'm calling Andre Ward, he
20:00
going to give you the best explanation. Like, out of
20:02
all the guys, like, he explains things from detail, like,
20:07
He going to detail it and make me really understand
20:10
what I got to do. Like, Andre Ward is somebody
20:12
who I looked up to since a kid, so he
20:15
another guy. I just wasn't around him enough in the
20:18
gym as I was around Bud. But, like, Andre Ward
20:22
was my favorite fighter as an amateur.
20:24
Speaker 2: Oh, really? Yes. Well, most people don't know that Andre
20:27
Ward fought most of his career with one arm. Yeah.
20:30
Which is crazy. Which is crazy.
20:32
Speaker 1: That one arm is his best arm. He's left-handed for real,
20:36
for real.
20:37
Speaker 2: But it's still crazy.
20:39
Speaker 1: It is, it is.
20:39
Speaker 2: It's still crazy. Think about all the guys he beat,
20:41
and he beat them with a left hand. Yeah. And
20:43
then finally got shoulder surgery, and then had a right hand.
20:47
It's still kind of fucked up. It's not 100%.
20:50
Speaker 1: You know the misconception about his career? I feel like
20:55
when he beat Kovalev, people don't realize how good Kovalev was.
21:00
Speaker 2: Oh, he was good in the day.
21:01
Speaker 1: Like, he was insanely, like, Fucking dangerous. Power, boxing, length.
21:08
He had everything. A great jab, a great right hand.
21:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:11
Speaker 1: And for Andre Ward to go beat that dude, that
21:14
put the stamp on, like, his career.
21:17
Speaker 2: And got dropped.
21:18
Speaker 1: Yes.
21:18
Speaker 2: Got dropped and hurt and recovered and still won. Yeah.
21:21
I mean, that was big. Yeah, Kovalev. People see Kovalev
21:24
when he lost to Canelo. He was already kind of washed.
21:27
He was done. Yeah, he was already washed. He's been
21:29
drinking a lot.
21:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
21:31
Speaker 2: There was a lot of, you know, a lot of
21:33
these fighters, they get to, like we're saying, it's sustaining
21:36
that will, that drive, that discipline, that focus. It's hard
21:40
to do. But if you go back when he had it, man,
21:43
when he was in his prime and he was a
21:45
world champion, he was fucking everybody up, man. He was
21:47
a killer. And he was scary.
21:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a killer.
21:50
Speaker 2: Scary right hand. It was a piston.
21:53
Speaker 1: I'll go back and watch him, too. He's another guy
21:54
that I'll go back and watch. I like the way
21:56
he keep his distance. He keep his distance really good.
21:59
He got that Eastern European. Like, them guys are really
22:02
good boxers. Like, when I watch them, I'm like, okay, like,
22:05
I love watching Bivol.
22:06
Speaker 2: Bivol's amazing.
22:07
Speaker 1: I love it.
22:08
Speaker 2: He's got such an amazing style. I mean, him, Usyk,
22:13
Lomachenko's kind of a cat. That's a fight I really
22:16
wish would have happened between you and him, man. Was
22:19
there ever talk about that?
22:21
Speaker 1: I messed myself up. I kind of did this to myself,
22:24
so I understand. why a lot of fighters wouldn't fight me.
22:30
A lot of fighters wouldn't fight me because I sparred them.
22:32
And I messed myself up. When I was trying to
22:37
spar him at that time, I never thought it would
22:41
be a day of me and him fighting. Like, I
22:42
didn't think that far down the line. I really was
22:45
just thinking he was the best fighter in boxing, number
22:47
one pound for pound. I want to be able to
22:50
go get in the ring with him and see what, like,
22:53
How I can do. They told me they wasn't even
22:54
going to pay me for the sparring. I'm like, okay,
22:56
I'm cool. I don't want to get paid. I'm just
22:59
here to get in the ring with Lomachenko. Years later, yeah.
23:04
How'd that go? How the sparring went? I don't diss
23:10
nobody in sparring, so I can't say that.
23:13
Speaker 2: We don't have to diss them.
23:16
Speaker 1: I'll keep it real with the sparring. I felt like
23:19
I was outboxing him, but I also knew the level
23:24
he was on was like his conditioning and that's when
23:27
I it made me like okay I gotta be in
23:29
like tip top conditioning cause the first day we sparred
23:32
we did six rounds I feel like it was like
23:36
okay I'll box him the next time we sparred he
23:40
made me do 12 straight really yeah so he made
23:43
me do 12 straight for the first eight I'm good
23:46
like I'm I'm good for eight but like the last
23:50
four rounds I wanna say he started like picking up
23:53
the pace and He ain't get off on me, but
23:57
he got the better of the last four rounds, I
24:00
would say.
24:00
Speaker 2: And you feel like it was because of fatigue a
24:02
little bit.
24:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was for sure because of fatigue. But it
24:05
wasn't like the skills. Like, skillfully, I felt like I
24:08
was the better fighter. Like, I felt like my range
24:11
and my distance and my speed was kind of better
24:14
than his. But, like, from a standpoint of being in
24:18
shape and throwing more punches, I felt like he was
24:21
kind of. But he was getting ready for his fight.
24:23
I was getting ready for my fight, too.
24:26
Speaker 2: Well, that's a very valuable learning experience, right? Yeah. You
24:30
mean better to learn it then than to learn it
24:32
in a fight.
24:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, but for real, for real, it messed me up.
24:38
Because now it's like if I'm Lomachenko and I know
24:42
he was, what, 126 pounds at the time. He was
24:45
a kid. Now I see him all grown up. He bigger, stronger.
24:51
And I seen what he was doing as a kid,
24:53
I'd probably be like, why would I test the water
24:57
with him? I wouldn't really want to see that guy.
24:59
That's not the guy I would want to see.
25:01
Speaker 2: That's funny. So you think that those sparring matches were
25:06
the reason why you never got to fight with him? Yeah,
25:08
for sure.
25:09
Speaker 1: I was surprised he fought me. Honestly. I was very surprised.
25:14
Speaker 2: Did you spar him as well?
25:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. But when we sparred, we only did three rounds,
25:18
but He made it seem like he kind of got
25:22
off on me, but honestly, I felt like I was
25:26
the bad fighter.
25:27
Speaker 2: Well, Tio's a very headstrong guy. Yeah, he's tough. Very tough,
25:31
very confident guy. I mean, look, when he beat Lomachenko,
25:34
that was a standout performance. He had that piston jab, man.
25:37
Speaker 1: Ooh, he was sharp.
25:38
Speaker 2: He was sharp in that fight.
25:39
Speaker 1: I watched that fight a thousand times before my fight.
25:41
Speaker 2: Well, I just think he knew that Lomachenko was a ghost.
25:45
He was so hard to hit, and he came out explosive.
25:48
Speaker 1: He looked so good.
25:49
Speaker 2: In that fight.
25:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think Lomachenko had a speed to get
25:54
his respect. I feel like T.O. was kind of faster,
25:58
and he knew from a speed standpoint he was going
26:00
to use it to his advantage.
26:02
Speaker 2: Also, T.O. was a lot bigger, and he was dangerous.
26:05
He was throwing danger with every punch. Even that jab
26:08
had danger behind it.
26:09
Speaker 1: It was crazy. I felt like he was strong when
26:12
I was fighting him.
26:13
Speaker 2: Oh, he's strong as fuck, man.
26:14
Speaker 1: Everybody think that he wasn't, but I'm like, man, I
26:16
ain't going to lie. It was some shots like I
26:18
would catch on the glove and I'd be like, I
26:21
don't know what you're doing in your training, bro, but
26:26
don't cut in solid.
26:27
Speaker 2: But look at the size of that motherfucker. I mean,
26:28
he's jacked. He looks great.
26:30
Speaker 1: He's ripped.
26:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just, but you know, he's not done. And
26:34
a fight like that with you is a wake up
26:37
call for a guy like him too. It's like, man,
26:40
I got to.
26:40
Speaker 1: Tighten some shit up. It's 50-50 though. It's 50-50 because
26:42
sometimes they can play with your mental. So some guys
26:46
don't be the same after getting embarrassed in front of
26:48
the world like that.
26:50
Speaker 2: Well, he's come back before, like the Kambosis fight. Kambosis
26:53
dropped him early, and that was a crazy upset.
26:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was different because in this instance, he
27:01
got really embarrassed. With Kambosis, it was like it was
27:03
a 50-50. He felt like he won the fight. He
27:07
left feeling that way.
27:09
Speaker 2: But getting dropped by Kambosis, nobody saw that coming.
27:11
Speaker 1: No, I didn't see that coming either.
27:13
Speaker 2: I ain't going to lie. For sure. I think it was, like,
27:15
second round, too, right?
27:16
Speaker 1: It was the first round.
27:17
Speaker 2: But T.O.
27:17
Speaker 1: Was fighting dumb. I never seen T.O. even fight like that, either.
27:21
He went in there, like, just trying to knock him
27:23
out from the first round.
27:24
Speaker 2: I think after the Lomachenko fight, he felt like, this
27:27
dude is not on my level. I'm the best fighter
27:29
in the world. You know? That can fuck with your head, too.
27:31
Overconfidence can fuck with your head.
27:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'll be trying to, like, stay away from that.
27:38
Because I'm very, like, confident in myself, so. I be
27:43
scared of being too confident, so I be trying to, like,
27:47
make guys bigger in my brain. Like, oh, this guy,
27:50
he's the truth.
27:52
Speaker 2: That's smart.
27:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to. Like, I don't have no choice
27:54
because I'm very confident.
27:56
Speaker 2: We've all seen fighters that go in unprepared and think
27:59
that a fighter's not on their level, and then that
28:01
guy puts up. Knock him out. Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson.
28:05
Perfect example. 42-1 underdog. And it was a perfect storm
28:10
because Buster's mama just died.
28:12
Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
28:13
Speaker 2: And Buster was always one of those guys that was
28:16
known to be super talented in the gym. Super talented,
28:19
but not dedicated. Just not driven. Just didn't make the
28:24
most of his talent. But for that one fight, he
28:26
was like, I'm fighting Mike Tyson. I'm not scared of him.
28:29
My mom is dead. I'm putting in the fucking work.
28:32
And he came out throwing that jab with the hook
28:35
off the jab.
28:35
Speaker 1: Pop, whap. Pop, whap.
28:37
Speaker 2: And it was a totally different Buster Douglas. Like the
28:40
best Buster Douglas we've ever seen ever. That final combination
28:44
when he knocked Mike Tyson out, dude, I didn't even
28:47
watch that fight live. A friend of mine told me
28:50
about it. I was like, are you fucking serious? He
28:53
told me at the gas station. He's like, Buster Douglas
28:56
knocked out Mike Tyson. I was like, what the fuck
28:58
are you talking about? And then I went home and
29:00
watched it. And even while I knew that Buster Douglas
29:05
had won, I expected Mike Tyson to get up and
29:07
kill him. I was like, I can't believe this is happening.
29:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
29:10
Speaker 2: That's how much of an upset that was.
29:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was definitely one of the biggest upsets. I
29:16
don't know because I wasn't during that time, but from
29:19
what I've seen, it just looked like Mike didn't expect
29:22
him to be that good. It was a shocker.
29:26
Speaker 2: I think it was a shocker for everybody.
29:28
Speaker 1: But that's boxing. That's what can happen in the sport.
29:31
I done seen that happen plenty of times. Honestly, it
29:35
be some guys that I see in the gym that
29:38
I'm like, bro, if you do that stuff on fight night, bro,
29:43
you'll probably be champion of the world. I guess a
29:46
lot of gym fighters who really got talent, but when
29:50
the bright lights come on, a lot of fighters be
29:52
kind of different.
29:53
Speaker 2: And what do you think that is?
29:55
Speaker 1: I think it's pressure. I think it's nerves. I think
29:58
it's like, It's a lot. It's a lot. Because I
30:01
know I felt it. I felt it for my fight
30:03
with Tio.
30:04
Speaker 2: I felt pressure.
30:05
Speaker 1: I felt all of that kind of stuff. But I'm
30:09
too tough. I know my mental ain't going. It's me
30:13
or that person at the end of the day. My
30:15
life or your life. I'm going to choose my life
30:17
when it comes down to it. I was good. But
30:21
I know it's a lot of fighters that I see
30:24
in the gym. And I'm like, man, I don't understand
30:26
how you don't perform like this on under the lights.
30:29
Speaker 2: There's always guys like that. There's always guys that are
30:33
potential world champions in the gym. And, you know, some
30:36
people bank on them and some, you know, you go,
30:39
this guy just needs a mental coach, needs something to
30:42
get him over that hump. But it's always interesting to
30:45
me because what is the difference between a guy who
30:47
could just walk out there on fight day and perform
30:51
at 100% of his ability versus a guy who gets
30:54
dwarfed by the moment. The moment comes, The big pressure. Yeah.
30:58
Speaker 1: It's all mental. It's all in your head.
31:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:01
Speaker 1: What you thinking and what you believing and the things
31:04
that's going on in your brain is what's going to
31:06
come out. Like, I'm already telling myself. Like I said,
31:09
I tell myself it's either me or him. So my
31:14
life or your life. And one of us got to go. Yeah.
31:20
One of us got to go.
31:21
Speaker 2: But what do you think is going on? I mean,
31:24
everybody experiences pressure. Everybody experiences nerves. But what is it
31:28
about fighters that are so talented that let that overcome
31:32
them versus fighters, oftentimes they're maybe not even as talented,
31:36
but they rise to the occasion when those lights are on.
31:39
When those lights are on, there are fighters that fight better.
31:42
Like sometimes they look shit in the gym. And then
31:45
when those bright lights are on.
31:46
Speaker 1: I done had moments like that. I done had moments
31:49
where I'm like, man, I felt bad in the gym.
31:51
I don't know what. I had this camp. This was
31:54
a horrible camp. And then fight night coming, I'm like.
31:58
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's what they said about Ali when
32:00
he fought George Foreman. They said he looked terrible in
32:02
the gym and everybody was nervous about him, but he
32:05
had a strategy.
32:06
Speaker 1: I think with some fighters, it's fear. I think it's
32:09
fear of losing or fear of the negative happening. I
32:13
think with some fighters, they allow fear to control them.
32:17
As in some other fighters who, if I get fearful,
32:21
I'm going to attack my fears. I'm not scared to
32:24
even go and give it a try. Whatever happened is
32:28
gonna happen at the end of the day. It's all
32:29
written already, so.
32:31
Speaker 2: Is this something that you built up over time, or
32:34
is this something someone imparted on you when you were
32:36
young and you embraced it? Like, how did you learn
32:40
to have that champion mindset?
32:42
Speaker 1: I think it's wild to say, but I think it's
32:45
really my little brothers and my little sisters, but really
32:49
my little brothers. I used to go to amateur tournaments,
32:54
And if I lose and I got to come on
32:57
to my little brothers, oh, they on me. They on me.
33:01
And it's like, you got to come home and they
33:03
remember the name of the opponent that beat you and
33:06
they will throw it in your face. Oh, don't make
33:08
me go get Joseph Adorno. That's a real guy that
33:11
beat me back in the day. Shout out to Joseph Adorno.
33:14
But I used to have to hear that in the house.
33:18
And now... I still be with them. So it's like,
33:22
I know I got to go home to my little
33:24
brothers and see them after these fights. And I had
33:29
that in the back of my head. I'm not coming
33:32
home to them.
33:33
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
33:34
Speaker 1: Without the win. They got to know.
33:37
Speaker 2: Did you tell your little brothers that they do that
33:39
for you?
33:39
Speaker 1: No, I don't even think I ever said it to them.
33:43
It just was so natural because I used to always
33:45
get in fights with them and they used to always
33:46
bring up an opponent that beat me and I'm like,
33:49
Now if I beat everybody, they can't say.
33:52
Speaker 2: It no more. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Well, because different
33:57
fighters develop, you know, different ways of rising to the occasion,
34:02
different ways of maintaining a championship's mindset. And some of them,
34:06
they learn it from their coach, you know, Customato famously
34:09
trained Tyson and even hypnotized him and told him that
34:12
you don't exist, only the task exists. And he had
34:16
Mike Tyson just like a fucking machine when he would
34:18
get into that ring.
34:20
Speaker 1: I think, shout out to my grandfather, too, because my
34:23
grandfather is my coach. And, like, his energy during fight week, like,
34:29
they don't even realize, like, it wasn't even just the
34:32
coaching that he was doing. It's, like, the energy that
34:35
he kind of gave off to me, it reminded me
34:37
of me when, like, I was a kid and me
34:40
and him would go to amateur tournaments and, like, He
34:43
just so like amped up and like ready and like
34:47
it kind of brought on to me and it kind
34:50
of got me like amped up as him. Like, okay,
34:54
I got to stand on business for my grandfather. I
34:57
got to. I don't got no choice.
34:58
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
34:59
Speaker 1: That's awesome. But he's definitely a great coach.
35:01
Speaker 2: So family is a big thing for you.
35:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, family is everything for me. Like I enjoy spending
35:07
time with my family. Like I'm not like a lot
35:09
of these boxers, like with all due respect to them.
35:13
They like the fame, all that kind of stuff. The cars.
35:21
I'm more so like, I get a big check, I
35:23
want to go on vacay with my family or go
35:27
chill with my family. I don't like doing stuff. I
35:31
enjoy spending time with my daughter.
35:32
Speaker 2: That's great.
35:33
Speaker 1: I'm different. I'm not like them guys.
35:36
Speaker 2: That's so smart. It's so smart because all that other
35:39
shit just drains your bank account. distracts you from your
35:43
goals gets in the way of things.
35:46
Speaker 1: It's like when i was a kid i used to
35:49
want the fame i used to be like oh i
35:51
want to be famous i want everybody to know me
35:54
but it's like once you get it it's like ah
35:58
i don't like this i don't like this like you
36:02
go places people pulling their phones out and like It's weird, right?
36:05
They trying to record you. Like, bro, why you? I'm
36:08
just a regular person. Like, that's how I feel.
36:10
Speaker 2: Like, everybody bleeds.
36:12
Speaker 1: We all the same.
36:13
Speaker 2: We all human. Right.
36:15
Speaker 1: So I kind of move with that kind of thought process.
36:18
And I feel like a lot of people don't move
36:21
with that. Like, especially people in my position.
36:23
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can get inflated. Your head can get screwy.
36:28
It's like you got to balance two things at the
36:29
same time. One... You are the elite of the elite.
36:32
You are a world champion and one of the pound
36:35
for pound best to ever do it. And then on
36:36
top of that, you're just a human being. Yes. And
36:39
we're all just human beings. But what we like, what
36:43
people love about watching championship caliber fighters and championship performances
36:48
in any sport is watching just a regular human do
36:52
something extraordinary. Yes. And that gives us inspiration.
36:56
Speaker 1: Yes.
36:56
Speaker 2: When I watch a great fight, I feel better for
36:58
the rest of the day. When I go to bed,
37:00
I feel great. I watched that fight. I went to bed.
37:03
I was like, whoo. I felt great. I texted Josh
37:06
right after. Right after it was happening. And that's how
37:10
we got in touch. Josh Dubin. Shout out to Josh.
37:13
Speaker 1: Shout out to Josh.
37:13
Speaker 2: But I remember I texted him. I'm like, dude, that
37:16
was extraordinary. And then next thing you know, we're.
37:19
Speaker 1: On the phone. Definitely was a great... Great night. Great
37:25
night of boxing. I enjoyed it. I'm just glad to
37:27
be here. All glory to God. I'm glad to be here.
37:30
I've been here. I've been here. I've been telling people
37:36
I'm the best. I'm better than these guys.
37:37
Speaker 2: You have, but you needed that breakout. You needed that
37:40
breakout performance. And the problem is everybody knew you were
37:43
so good. It was hard to get someone to sign
37:45
up for that breakout performance. Because for a breakout performance,
37:49
you need another dude who's had breakout performances that everybody
37:51
respects and knows. Like Tia Fimo.
37:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was my main reason to fight him. I'm
37:56
telling you, I watched him in Times Square.
37:59
Speaker 2: I looked.
37:59
Speaker 1: I said, we fighting him.
38:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:02
Speaker 1: We fighting him. I want to fight him. He looked
38:05
really good. He looked really good.
38:07
Speaker 2: That Times Square card was weird.
38:09
Speaker 1: He was the best fighter on the card.
38:10
Speaker 2: 100%.
38:11
Speaker 1: No question.
38:12
Speaker 2: It looked like everybody was playing it safe on that card. Yeah,
38:15
it did. It did. Like Devin Haney. The Devin Haney
38:18
fight was odd.
38:19
Speaker 1: What I learned from that card, I felt like, I
38:22
felt like them fighters didn't have enough adrenaline pumping. I
38:26
feel like Ryan, I know when he got in the ring,
38:30
his adrenaline couldn't have been too high because it was
38:35
like sparring. It was not a lot of people there.
38:38
It wasn't that much pressure. You could hear everything somebody
38:41
is saying. I know Ryan heard me all night. He
38:44
had to hear me. I was cheering him on, telling him, like, man,
38:47
throw the hook, throw the hook, throw the hook.
38:50
Speaker 2: That was when he fought Roley, right? Yeah. Yeah, that
38:52
was a wake-up call too. That was another fight where
38:55
people did not expect Roley to beat Ryan.
38:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be throwing off. I didn't expect it either.
39:01
That was one of the fights where I kind of
39:04
vouched for Ryan. I'm like, man, he got skills. He's
39:07
a skillful fighter. Then he got in there, and I
39:09
don't know what he was doing. I didn't understand what
39:12
was happening.
39:13
Speaker 2: You know, it's one of them things where he has
39:17
the fight with Devin and He beats Devin, gets popped
39:23
for whatever he was on, Osterine. And then he's got
39:26
a long time off. There's a lot of people mad
39:29
at him. there's a lot of people you know which
39:32
is a such an unfortunate thing if you think about
39:35
his performance against Devin because that was incredible.
39:39
Speaker 1: Yeah but the problem is he got caught he got
39:43
caught yeah so like I don't know like for me
39:46
personally if you got caught it's like I can't really, me,
39:51
I can't give you the credit for that.
39:52
Speaker 2: Right.
39:53
Speaker 1: I don't give him credit for that night with Devin.
39:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, but steroids don't help you land punches.
40:00
Speaker 1: I get you.
40:00
Speaker 2: They help you recover in training. They help you train
40:03
a little harder. They might give you a little bit
40:05
more power, but that left hook was on point.
40:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that little bit of more power probably wasn't
40:10
enough to hurt Devin, because if you really watch the
40:14
fight and pay attention to the fight, and people might
40:17
not agree with me on this, but I feel like
40:21
Devin was winning the moments that was quiet. Like, when
40:25
people's not really, ah. Devin is winning most of the, like,
40:30
boxing match, but the moments where Ryan was so loud and, like,
40:35
everybody got to see him get hurt and knocked down
40:39
to where, like, I just feel like Devin, if he
40:43
didn't get dropped by them punches, he could have won
40:46
that fight.
40:46
Speaker 2: But he did get dropped. That's the problem. And also,
40:49
I think.
40:49
Speaker 1: What if the Oster ring was helping his power?
40:53
Speaker 2: I mean... What was his last fight against? Delgado? Who
40:57
was his last opponent? Who? Ryan.
41:00
Speaker 1: Who was the guy who just beat him? Mario Barrios. Barrios,
41:02
that's right.
41:03
Speaker 2: Barrios is a guy that was tailor-made for a guy
41:09
like Ryan. He's a tough dude. He's very durable, takes
41:13
a good shot, but he's not that fast. He's not, yeah.
41:16
And Ryan was super fast in that fight. Yeah. Ryan
41:19
looked good. He looked real good.
41:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looked good.
41:22
Speaker 2: He looked good. Real good in that fight.
41:23
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just, like, because people think when I'm saying, like, oh, well,
41:29
you don't know whether he's cheating or not. I'm not
41:32
saying that in the aspect of his boxing skills. Like,
41:35
he clearly got boxing skills, like, You can clearly see
41:39
Ryan know how to move his feet, you know how
41:40
to keep his distance, use his long length. He can
41:44
clearly box. I've been saying this for years.
41:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, he boxes very well. And also, he showed that
41:50
he has a right hand, too.
41:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was surprising.
41:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:54
Speaker 1: And he used it, like, the whole night. Like, he
41:56
just kept throwing it. So that was very surprising.
41:59
Speaker 2: But, I mean, of course, if you want to be
42:01
a complete fighter, he had to develop a right hand
42:04
and start using it more because that left hook is
42:06
just world class.
42:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was not only, like, throwing it straight.
42:10
He was throwing it around the guard. That was kind of.
42:12
Speaker 2: It was beautiful. Yeah, it was nice. That was a
42:14
beautiful performance for him. Has there been any talk about
42:16
you two matching up? Yeah, it has.
42:18
Speaker 1: But, like I said, everything got to make sense. Like,
42:21
people don't understand that I walk around in my 40s.
42:27
So if I'm walking around in my 40s, I don't
42:30
think me going to 147, when I fight at 147,
42:36
I think that would be my last weight class in
42:39
my career. I don't see myself going past 147 ever.
42:43
But I'm 28 right now. I got a long way
42:45
to go. I don't plan on moving to 147 no
42:49
time soon. If the fight happens at whatever weight class
42:54
that I say, then... I'm cool with it.
42:56
Speaker 2: Can he make 40 again?
42:57
Speaker 1: He said he could. He the one who came out
42:59
and said, like, let's fight at 140. He said that.
43:03
So if he said that, it's like, okay, you can
43:05
make the weight, then let's do it.
43:07
Speaker 2: What weight was the Gervonta fight? Was that 140?
43:09
Speaker 1: That fight was at 136.
43:11
Speaker 2: That's right. And then he gave him a rehydration clause, too.
43:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, 10 pounds, yep.
43:15
Speaker 2: Very smart. Very smart. Very smart, right?
43:20
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it was in that situation, but.
43:26
I mean, I just feel like with the rehydration clause
43:29
at that time, when you're already bringing somebody down to
43:32
a weight class that they haven't fought in years, you
43:36
could have not put the rehydration clause. It wasn't necessary
43:41
at that point in time.
43:42
Speaker 2: I think it was necessary. I think it helped a lot.
43:44
It did. It helped a lot. If you can only
43:47
rehydrate 10 pounds and you know he's way bigger than that.
43:50
Ryan's a big guy.
43:51
Speaker 1: He looked weak on fight night. He looked extremely weak.
43:55
Speaker 2: But I guess those dollars, that paycheck, was just too tempting.
44:00
I never understood that move.
44:02
Speaker 1: I never understood it. Because if I'm Ryan Garcia and
44:04
I got a big name in the sport and all
44:06
of that kind of stuff, why would I accept everything
44:10
into somebody else's favor?
44:12
Speaker 2: I think because that's the only way he could get
44:14
the fight. Well, this is the same thing when Canelo
44:19
fought Floyd. Floyd made him go down to 152. Remember?
44:23
Speaker 1: But it was no rehydration clause.
44:26
Speaker 2: Was it? Nope, it wasn't. Even if it's not.
44:28
Speaker 1: Floyd ain't never a rehydration clause, nobody.
44:31
Speaker 2: Well, that's good. But if you make a guy get
44:33
down to 152, even if you give him a rehydration clause,
44:36
like that's going to drain something out of your tank.
44:39
Speaker 1: But is it right? Because my question is, wasn't they
44:42
fighting at 154? Wasn't Canelo fighting at 154?
44:45
Speaker 2: Normally, yeah. So he only came down two pounds. But
44:49
you know that last, you're not a big weight cutter,
44:51
but if you were, that last two pounds is death.
44:54
Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
44:55
Speaker 2: When you're already drained out, because he was a big
44:57
guy for 154, and to drain out and get all
45:00
the way down to 152, that had to be hard.
45:03
He didn't look the same on fight day.
45:04
Speaker 1: You don't think so?
45:06
Speaker 2: Well, I think Floyd was just a virtuoso that night.
45:09
I mean, Floyd looks so good that night.
45:12
Speaker 1: That night, I don't think if he was 154, 160,
45:14
I don't think he was beating Floyd.
45:19
Speaker 2: I think you're probably right. But I also think Floyd
45:21
was smart to get him down to 152. For sure,
45:24
the business. Yeah, it's like every angle you can get,
45:28
every advantage you can get is a good one. I
45:31
do agree with you about the rehydration clause. Like, get
45:33
out of here with that.
45:33
Speaker 1: But we got to understand, too, right? Because I get
45:38
Floyd in that instance. If a guy is going to
45:41
blow up to, let's say, what? We'll just do me
45:45
and Ryan Garcia for example.
45:47
Speaker 2: Okay.
45:49
Speaker 1: I'm going to blow up, like, 148 he's gonna blow
45:54
up 168 to 170 now it's like you in a
45:59
ring with somebody that is like 20 pounds bigger than
46:02
you and Floyd still allowed Canelo to get big because
46:05
he got big at the getting down to 152 so
46:08
it's like I kind of feel it in a way
46:12
like I understand it now the rehydration gloves is kind
46:15
of crazy but I will only do a rehydration clause
46:18
for fighters if I go up to 147 pounds. Because
46:22
I'm not a 147 pounder, so why would I fight
46:25
at their weight class where they're comfortable and just make
46:28
it easy for them?
46:30
Speaker 2: Well, the thing about a fighter like you is it's
46:33
just difficult to find big names. I mean, if Gervonta
46:37
fights again, that's a big fight. But that would probably
46:42
be at 135, which you could probably still make easy, right? Easy.
46:45
No problem. So you have fights at 135 and fights
46:48
at 140, but it's just going to be hard to
46:51
get someone to step up. That is going to be
46:54
that big pay-per-view selling fight. Yeah. That's the problem.
46:59
Speaker 1: That is the problem.
46:59
Speaker 2: You're too good. That's the problem. You're too good.
47:03
Speaker 1: Somebody told me that before I went pro before. They
47:05
was like, you're going to have a hard time in
47:07
the pros. I'm telling you. Yeah. But I understand it now.
47:11
Speaker 2: Do you remember your first pro fight? You remember what
47:13
it felt like?
47:14
Speaker 1: It felt like a whole new experience.
47:16
Speaker 2: Really?
47:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:18
Speaker 2: How so?
47:20
Speaker 1: When I was in the amateurs, guys wasn't as dirty
47:26
as the professionals. You don't get introduced into dirty boxing
47:31
until you turn professional.
47:32
Speaker 2: Didn't you get headbutted in your first fight?
47:34
Speaker 1: I got headbutted. He headbutted me. On purpose, right?
47:38
Speaker 2: Yes. Not an accidental headbutt.
47:40
Speaker 1: That's what kind of makes me say, okay, I understand.
47:42
This is a whole different... atmosphere. It's not the same
47:47
amateur and the pros. A lot of guys from the
47:50
amateurs don't adjust to the pros as well as I did.
47:57
Speaker 2: Well, it's all about styles, right? There's some guys who
48:00
have styles that are just much better for point fighting and.
48:03
Speaker 1: Fighting the amateurs. You got to develop a lot of
48:06
things like punch placement. Punching hard is really a real
48:12
thing in the pros. You got to have something to
48:15
Make somebody respect you. That's why when I hear people say, like,
48:18
I got pillow hands, I'm like, y'all clearly must not
48:22
be watching.
48:23
Speaker 2: Who's saying that?
48:25
Speaker 1: It be a lot of people. They say I got
48:26
pillow hands.
48:27
Speaker 2: No, you just fight smart. Yeah, but I don't.
48:29
Speaker 1: Understand it because it's like, if I had pillow hands, right?
48:33
Why guys don't just go in there and just knock
48:35
me out? Like, if I'm fighting somebody with pillow hands,
48:38
I'm just going to put my shield up and... Just
48:42
swing for the fences because they can't hurt me. I
48:46
don't understand why nobody won't do that if I got
48:49
pillow hands.
48:49
Speaker 2: You don't have pillow hands. It's nonsense talk. What you
48:52
have is a boxing intelligence where you know when to
48:56
hit full blast and when to just touch them up
48:59
and crack them a little bit. And the accumulation of blows,
49:03
the frustration, the mental confusion that a fighter gets when
49:08
they can't hit you and you can hit them. and
49:09
then you start ramping it up, and then you start
49:13
tuning them up. I mean, the people that are saying
49:15
that just don't understand what you're doing.
49:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
49:18
Speaker 2: What you're doing is just perfect. You're fighting intelligent. And
49:22
that's what I love. I love watching a guy just
49:25
outbox the fuck out of somebody. I love it. Like
49:28
I said, you were doing this half-speed jab, and then
49:32
from right there, bop! And you could tell Tio was like,
49:35
Jesus Christ. You could tell he was confused. It was
49:39
so fast.
49:40
Speaker 1: It was too fast.
49:41
Speaker 2: It was so fast. But that accumulation of blows over time.
49:44
And his corner, it was crazy. Did you listen to
49:47
the fight? Did you go back and watch it?
49:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I went back and watched it.
49:50
Speaker 2: His corner's like, you got to hit him. Like, what?
49:53
Speaker 1: It's so crazy, though, because what I see with his
49:56
corner is he been doing this. His dad been getting
50:01
in the ring and giving him them type of instructions.
50:04
But T.O. has been always so good to where the
50:08
instructions he's giving him really does not matter because he's
50:12
in control. He's winning these fights. He's doing what he's
50:14
supposed to do. But that night, he did need.
50:18
Speaker 2: He needed a real coach.
50:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, he needed something better than that.
50:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, not that his dad's not a real coach,
50:22
but he needed some tactical advice. He needed some instruction
50:26
on what this guy's doing to you, and you got
50:29
to switch it up entirely. You got to do something
50:31
that confuses him.
50:32
Speaker 1: His dad is used to, like, something different. That's why
50:35
he went in there and said, like, where's your power, bro?
50:39
He's used to T.O. 's power showing up in... The
50:44
amazing things that T.O. does in the boxing ring, he's
50:47
used to that. But whenever you're going against somebody who's
50:52
on a different level, also you got to be well
50:55
prepared within like a game plan.
50:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
50:58
Speaker 1: All that kind of stuff. And I didn't see no
50:59
game plan.
51:02
Speaker 2: Did you know anybody that was his camp or ask
51:04
anybody after the fight? Like what was his game plan?
51:07
What did he think was going to be different?
51:09
Speaker 1: No, I didn't actually.
51:10
Speaker 2: I just. I'd be interested to know that.
51:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do too, but. I did run into him
51:16
after the fight. I ran into Teal in the back.
51:19
Speaker 2: Was he cool?
51:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was cool. It was actually a good conversation.
51:23
I felt bad that he was by himself. His manager
51:25
kind of cleaned it up. But during the moment that
51:27
I seen him in the back, he was by himself.
51:31
So I didn't like that.
51:33
Speaker 2: Oh, man.
51:34
Speaker 1: I didn't like that.
51:34
Speaker 2: No, that's a bummer.
51:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. But, I mean, they said they was with him
51:38
all night. So respect to them.
51:39
Speaker 2: So maybe he just... You just caught him in a
51:41
moment when he was alone.
51:42
Speaker 1: A bad moment, yep.
51:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the last thing you want to see is
51:44
a dude who gets abandoned after a loss. Like, oh
51:47
my God. And then you got to go back to
51:48
camp with those assholes?
51:50
Speaker 1: I don't even like how the sport is kind of
51:52
treating him now. Like, everybody acts like he's just this
51:55
terrible fighter, but.
51:57
Speaker 2: Oh, that's crazy.
51:58
Speaker 1: I don't understand it when you got to give him respect. Like,
52:01
this dude actually stepped up and fought a guy that
52:04
nobody else wants to fight, so.
52:06
Speaker 2: Exactly. He did it.
52:07
Speaker 1: He got in the ring and he laid it on
52:09
the line. It didn't go his way, but he did.
52:12
He tried.
52:12
Speaker 2: The thing is, I don't know if that guy's ever
52:14
going to separate from his father. I don't know if
52:17
that guy ever is going to bring in another world-class
52:19
trainer that maybe would be able to recognize some things
52:22
that he's doing that he can prove upon.
52:23
Speaker 1: You know what's so crazy? During the fight, he had
52:28
a coach in his corner, and I know the coach.
52:30
He's from Florida, I want to say. His coach was
52:34
telling him some good advice. I don't think he heard
52:38
him or was listening to him, but he was telling
52:40
him some good advice.
52:41
Speaker 2: Really? Yeah.
52:42
Speaker 1: I don't want to say what the advice is because
52:45
I got future opponents. Well, someone can go back and listen. Yeah.
52:49
I can't tell what the advice was, but he was
52:52
giving him some good advice.
52:54
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, it's hard. Those father-son teams, there's always a
52:59
lot of conflict with those.
53:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I done watched it over the years, I
53:04
feel like. Dads, like, stay on top of they fighter,
53:09
and they, like, they make it less fun. And I
53:15
feel like that's why I think my granddad is one
53:17
of the best coaches because he allowed me to love
53:20
the sport of boxing myself. Like, when I had my
53:24
football games and my Pop Warner games, he came to
53:28
my game, watched them, cheered on, supported me. But as
53:33
soon as I lost... I'm on the field crying. I'm like, oh.
53:37
He comes up to me. He say, you know, in boxing,
53:43
you only could lose because of yourself. And I'm looking.
53:48
I'm like, what do you mean, bro? I'm like, oh,
53:51
that is true because, like, you're the one in a
53:54
boxing ring doing the boxing. When I lost that football game,
54:00
he was basically trying to say it was my coach's fault. So, like,
54:05
he just allowed me to choose boxing, though. Like, he
54:09
always supported me when I did other things, but he
54:11
kind of, like, he ain't just stay on top of me, like,
54:14
hound me with it.
54:15
Speaker 2: Right.
54:16
Speaker 1: He just took me to the gym.
54:18
Speaker 2: Well, you got to let a young man become his
54:20
own man.
54:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, he allowed me to choose it. And I think
54:23
fathers in the sport don't allow their sons to choose it, too. Like,
54:28
they're choosing it for them.
54:29
Speaker 2: Right and a lot of them are overbearing in the
54:31
corner it becomes a problem yeah and they.
54:35
Speaker 1: Kind of be coaches should listen to what I'm about
54:39
to say the father coaches there has to be a
54:43
difference between a father and a coach so when you're
54:49
coaching your son you have to be a coach in
54:52
the boxing ring instead of the father because when you're
54:55
the father they're going to reciprocate things wrong and I
54:58
feel like with coaches, when you're coaching, they can hear
55:05
you a lot better.
55:06
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's also the relationship with the
55:09
father and the son where the father wants the son
55:11
to listen to him. Listen to me. I'm your father.
55:13
You go out and you're going to do this. And
55:15
you're like, fuck off of me. Yeah. Fuck off of me, Dad.
55:18
Speaker 1: And you're doing more harm to your son than actually
55:21
doing good for him.
55:23
Speaker 2: Well, especially not giving him technical advice.
55:25
Speaker 1: Yeah.
55:25
Speaker 2: Like, that is where he needed real technical advice. Yeah.
55:29
Because there was a lot of shit you were doing
55:30
that he just did not have an answer for.
55:32
Speaker 1: He didn't understand.
55:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
55:33
Speaker 1: He didn't understand. He didn't clean up his bad habits.
55:36
And that's the thing with these fighters. A lot of
55:38
them got bad habits and things that they do. And
55:41
I'm going to expose it.
55:43
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the environment that you came up in
55:47
and having a guy like Terrence and having other elite
55:49
fighters that you train with all the time, that's so important.
55:53
It's so invaluable. Because all that shit gets exposed in
55:56
the gym.
55:57
Speaker 1: It does. That's where you work on it at. Yeah.
55:59
That's where you work on it. If you ain't work
56:01
on it in the gym, on fight night, it's going
56:02
to be exposed.
56:04
Speaker 2: There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Yeah. How
56:07
important do you think an amateur career is? Do you
56:11
think a guy like Lomachenko maybe would have been an
56:15
even better boxer if he didn't have so many amateur
56:18
fights and went into the pros at an earlier age?
56:22
Speaker 1: I think. An amateur career is important because you got
56:26
to have the experience. But I done seen different to where, like,
56:32
guys have developed a lot more in the gym. Like,
56:35
I done seen guys stay in the gym, not go
56:38
to tournaments, and they'll get better and better. And then
56:41
out of nowhere, they'll go to one tournament, and then
56:43
you'll be like, who the fuck is this guy? Where
56:46
did he come from? How did he get so good?
56:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
56:50
Speaker 1: I think, like, developing in the gym is, like, the
56:52
biggest thing. Like, who you sparring, who you training with,
56:56
all of that stuff really matters the most. The amateur
56:59
experience is cool. Like, oh, Lomachenko. But if Lomachenko had
57:03
different things around him in the gym, I feel like
57:05
he probably would have been a better fighter. And he
57:08
was already good.
57:09
Speaker 2: With Lomachenko, it's so crazy because he really should have
57:11
been fighting at 126. I mean, he really was never
57:14
a 140-pound fighter. Yes. He's a small guy.
57:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't understand that. I didn't understand that because
57:21
I think it kind of tarnished his career in a
57:24
way to the way people look at him. People don't
57:27
look at him the same as they should because he
57:29
was really, really good. But he was at a weight
57:34
class that he really wasn't supposed to be at. So,
57:37
of course, you're going to have a harder time with
57:40
them bigger guys.
57:41
Speaker 2: Right, like Teo.
57:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, like Teo.
57:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a perfect example. Teo was huge in
57:45
that fight. He looked so much bigger than Lomachenko and
57:48
just so dangerous that it, like, fucked Lomachenko's strategy up. Because,
57:52
you know, you got missiles coming at you from a
57:54
giant dude. I mean, Teo's stacked.
57:56
Speaker 1: Yeah.
57:57
Speaker 2: And so you got to think, like, for those guys,
58:00
I guess it's just about chasing the multiple world titles
58:03
and the bigger money at the higher weight classes.
58:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what Lomachenko, though, he act like he wasn't really... Like,
58:11
super money hungry, so I never really understood. It seemed
58:14
like he was maybe, yeah, you're right about that. He
58:16
was chasing Undisputed.
58:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, Undisputed and world titles. I feel like he got
58:21
robbed in the Devin Haney fight, though. Do you think that?
58:25
Speaker 1: To this day, yeah, I do think.
58:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
58:27
Speaker 1: I scored the fight for Lomachenko.
58:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did, too. I watched it three times in
58:31
a row because I was like, what am I getting
58:32
wrong here? Am I getting this wrong before I start
58:35
talking about it?
58:35
Speaker 1: Yeah.
58:36
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, no, Lomachenko should have won.
58:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought Lomachenko won.
58:40
Speaker 2: That was one of those where I was like, ooh.
58:42
And I think that fight fucked with Devin Haney's head
58:44
a little bit. Like, that makes you feel like shit.
58:48
When you win a fight and everybody thinks that you
58:51
lost the fight and you got, like, then you have
58:53
to carry that around with you everywhere. Like, Lomachenko beat you.
58:56
You're like, no, he didn't.
58:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a mental battle.
58:58
Speaker 2: Fuck you. Yeah.
58:58
Speaker 1: It's a mental battle.
58:59
Speaker 2: And then you got to get it back.
59:00
Speaker 1: I think in that fight, he really wasn't even fighting
59:03
the best version of Devin because Devin was fighting at
59:05
a weight class he really shouldn't have been at.
59:09
Speaker 2: What was that fight? at? 135. Yeah. You think Devin
59:13
should have been at 140?
59:14
Speaker 1: At that time, yeah, he should have been at 140.
59:16
He was too big for 35.
59:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's interesting, man, that balance of we're all fucked
59:24
up in MMA because MMA, there's too few weight classes. Yeah.
59:28
And so there's giant gaps. Like huge gaps, like at
59:32
185 to 205, you know, 155 to 170. There's no
59:36
weight classes in between. I mean, that's nuts.
59:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's insane.
59:40
Speaker 2: I agree.
59:40
Speaker 1: I mean, it's guys that's like little fighting bigger guys
59:46
because it ain't enough weight classes for them to be in.
59:49
So that sounds crazy.
59:50
Speaker 2: It's stupid. It's the one major complaint that I've had
59:54
with the UFC for a decade. I was like, we
59:56
need way more weight classes. And they're like, no, we're
59:59
going to keep it pure. These are the champs. There's
1:00:01
only eight champs. Like, no, that's crazy.
1:00:04
Speaker 1: I need to start watching the UFC.
1:00:06
Speaker 2: Oh, it's fun. There's one this weekend in Vegas if
1:00:08
you're around.
1:00:08
Speaker 1: I'm going to watch some of it.
1:00:10
Speaker 2: It's a good one.
1:00:10
Speaker 1: I'm going to watch it because I'm like lost. Like
1:00:13
I'm not really in tune with like a lot of
1:00:16
the UFC guys. And the UFC people be kind of
1:00:19
mad at me when I say boxing is better. But
1:00:22
it's my sport.
1:00:23
Speaker 2: Of course you're going to think it's better. It's what
1:00:24
your life is based around.
1:00:26
Speaker 1: For sure.
1:00:26
Speaker 2: Of course. And if you talk to Max Holloway, he's
1:00:29
going to say MMA is better.
1:00:30
Speaker 1: Exactly. And they got good explanations. I understand what they're saying.
1:00:36
It's more like skills you got to learn in MMA.
1:00:39
But for me, I just feel like boxing, the skill
1:00:43
level and the talent, for me, I like better.
1:00:46
Speaker 2: Well, there is no question. The skill level and the
1:00:49
talent when it comes to punching is way better in boxing.
1:00:53
You see some sloppy shit that people do in MMA
1:00:55
with boxing. But you also have to think they're thinking
1:00:58
about takedowns. They're thinking about getting kicked. They're thinking about
1:01:02
their calves getting kicked out from under them, their legs
1:01:04
getting kicked, their body getting kicked.
1:01:06
Speaker 1: So they're messing up their punching, huh?
1:01:08
Speaker 2: Everything. Knees, elbows. And then there's stuff that you do
1:01:11
in boxing that you can't do in MMA because, like,
1:01:14
your leg's exposed. Yeah. There's certain positions that you would
1:01:18
throw punches in that a guy would just calf kick you.
1:01:21
And you get hit with one of those and you're like, oh, shit.
1:01:24
And all of a sudden your calf is numb and
1:01:26
you're not moving good and your ankle doesn't work. It's terrible.
1:01:30
That's the beauty of that sport is that it's so diverse.
1:01:32
But the beauty of boxing is that it's so concentrated
1:01:35
on hand techniques that the boxing techniques in boxing are
1:01:40
far superior than what you're going to see in MMA.
1:01:43
You see a few guys in MMA that could make
1:01:45
it as pro boxers, but you don't see your level or,
1:01:50
you know, or.
1:01:51
Speaker 1: They can't be elite level.
1:01:53
Speaker 2: No. There's no way you can. Impossible. No.
1:01:56
Speaker 1: You ain't been doing it for long enough.
1:01:58
Speaker 2: Just like you don't see these elite MMA fighters that
1:02:02
could compete in jiu-jitsu tournaments and win world championships. It's very,
1:02:06
very rare. The only way that happens is if they
1:02:10
were a world champion in jiu-jitsu before they got into
1:02:12
MMA and they still have those skills at a very,
1:02:15
very high level, then some of those guys can kind
1:02:18
of compete in world-class levels.
1:02:20
Speaker 1: What would you say is the best skill in the MMA?
1:02:24
Speaker 2: Wrestling. Wrestling. I knew it.
1:02:26
Speaker 1: I already knew it before I asked.
1:02:28
Speaker 2: Because wrestlers can take everybody down. And if you get
1:02:31
taken down, you're fucked.
1:02:32
Speaker 1: I want to learn how to wrestle.
1:02:33
Speaker 2: It's a great... Well, Terrence will show you how. Terrence
1:02:36
is one of the only boxers that are like, if
1:02:38
that guy fought in MMA, he could do very well.
1:02:41
He would. He would do very well.
1:02:43
Speaker 1: I watched him wrestle an actual USA team wrestler in.
1:02:48
Speaker 2: He was kind of good. He could wrestle.
1:02:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was good.
1:02:52
Speaker 2: He was good.
1:02:53
Speaker 1: He wasn't getting.
1:02:54
Speaker 2: He's not lost.
1:02:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:02:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, he knows what he's doing. And look, his son
1:02:57
just won a state title.
1:02:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. He's the truth.
1:03:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:03:00
Speaker 1: I want to learn how to wrestle, though.
1:03:02
Speaker 2: It's a good thing to know. It's a good thing
1:03:04
because it's a humbling thing.
1:03:05
Speaker 1: I feel like they're the strongest people.
1:03:07
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
1:03:07
Speaker 1: I feel like when it comes to strength, like real strength,
1:03:11
their bodies are stronger than most.
1:03:14
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a different thing. When they get a hold
1:03:16
of you, you feel like a child. You just get ragdolled.
1:03:19
You're like, this is embarrassing. That's the most important skill,
1:03:23
I feel. But every fight starts standing up. Every round
1:03:28
starts standing up. At the beginning of the round, you're
1:03:30
standing up again. So that guy's got to take you
1:03:32
down again. And in that transition, that's when you can
1:03:37
catch someone.
1:03:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I figured that.
1:03:39
Speaker 2: Look, there's an elite. Fighters that aren't great wrestlers in MMA,
1:03:43
like Alex Pereira, who's a two-division world champion. Yeah. But
1:03:46
he's just a destructive kickboxer.
1:03:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:03:49
Speaker 2: He's such a terrifying kickboxer.
1:03:51
Speaker 1: What is John Jones?
1:03:52
Speaker 2: John Jones is a wrestler.
1:03:53
Speaker 1: He a wrestler?
1:03:54
Speaker 2: Well, he's an everything fighter. He could do everything. Fair.
1:03:56
But he started out his career as a wrestler.
1:04:01
Speaker 1: I like him.
1:04:01
Speaker 2: Oh, he's the best ever. Yeah, I like him. The
1:04:03
best ever. He's the best ever because he's the smartest
1:04:06
of all of them. I mean, that guy studies.
1:04:09
Speaker 1: That's why I like him. That's exactly why I like him.
1:04:11
I've seen a video of him saying he watches everything
1:04:15
from top to bottom. He'll watch your interviews. He's going
1:04:17
to watch every single thing until he finds a weakness.
1:04:22
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
1:04:22
Speaker 1: That's why I like him.
1:04:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets inside their head. He knows every tendency
1:04:26
they do. He sets traps. He does everything. It's funny.
1:04:29
Daniel Cormier, who I love to death, is a great
1:04:31
friend of mine. When he fought Jon Jones, they were
1:04:34
talking before the fight about tendencies. And Daniel's like, oh,
1:04:39
I know what you think I'm going to do. You
1:04:40
think I'm going to lean towards the right and you're
1:04:41
going to kick me in the head. And Jon did
1:04:43
exactly that in the fight. It was so crazy when
1:04:46
he landed it. Look, I love both of those guys,
1:04:49
but Daniel's a close friend. And so we landed that
1:04:52
head kick. I was like, no. And I'm doing commentary,
1:04:57
so I've got to be balanced. And I do love
1:05:01
both of those guys. But I was like, damn, he
1:05:04
did exactly what he said he was going to do.
1:05:06
Speaker 1: You said it on the commentary?
1:05:08
Speaker 2: No, I didn't say it on the commentary. I don't
1:05:09
want to call it out there. But in the pre-fight,
1:05:13
they were talking shit to each other. And one of
1:05:15
the things is like, you have some tendencies, Daniel, and
1:05:17
I'm going to exploit those tendencies. And he was like, oh,
1:05:19
you mean how I dip to the right when I go?
1:05:22
Speaker 1: And he did exactly that.
1:05:24
Speaker 2: He caught him with that head kick. I was like, no.
1:05:28
Speaker 1: Wow.
1:05:29
Speaker 2: But, look, that's the GOAT. That's the guy, man. He's
1:05:32
the guy. He's the guy who always figures out a
1:05:34
way to win. He figures it out.
1:05:36
Speaker 1: I heard it was somebody that he was supposed to fight, though,
1:05:38
that wanted to fight him. It was, like, somebody really good.
1:05:42
Speaker 2: Oh, Tom Aspinall? Yeah, that's what I heard. Yeah, well, see,
1:05:45
the thing with that is... You know, John is at
1:05:48
the stage of his career where he's like, I want
1:05:51
to fight legends and I want to fight fights that
1:05:53
are like big fights against big names that matter. Tom
1:05:56
Aspinall carried a high risk. He wasn't a very well-known fighter,
1:06:00
even though he's the heavyweight champion. And he was really
1:06:03
the heavyweight champion because John resigned the title. All right.
1:06:07
So he was the interim heavyweight champion. So they had
1:06:10
like an interim title. And John was the undisputed heavyweight champion.
1:06:14
And they were supposed to fight. And they didn't make
1:06:16
that happen. But now, you know, after that fight, John
1:06:21
is still trying to figure out if he's going to
1:06:23
fight again. And if he's going to fight again, maybe
1:06:25
he'll fight because there's a big White House card. I
1:06:28
heard about that. Yeah. And the White House card is
1:06:31
a big one. And if that happens, it won't be
1:06:35
Aspinall probably because Aspinall just went through eye surgery. Yeah.
1:06:39
Two different eye surgeries. He got poked in the eyes
1:06:41
in his fight.
1:06:42
Speaker 1: Aren't you, like, involved in the UFC fight?
1:06:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the commentator. I'm one of the commentators.
1:06:47
Speaker 1: So are you going to be doing Zufa boxing too?
1:06:50
Speaker 2: No, no, no. That's Kellerman, Andre Ward. They do a
1:06:55
great job over there. I'll definitely watch some of those
1:06:58
fights though. I think it's interesting. I think it's good
1:07:02
to have more organizations that are competing to get the
1:07:06
fighters because then the fighters get more money. And I
1:07:09
think MMA could use that too. Unfortunately, the UFC is
1:07:13
the big name in MMA. MMA, unlike boxing, is all
1:07:18
about the UFC. In boxing, it's all about who's the champ.
1:07:21
Nobody gives a shit if it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum.
1:07:25
Nobody gives a fuck who the promoter is. It's like,
1:07:27
who is the fighter that's fighting? Is it Triple G
1:07:31
versus Canelo? Who are the fighters? And Unfortunately, with MMA,
1:07:37
it's not that. It's like if you are an excellent fighter,
1:07:40
but you fight for the PFL, nobody knows. Nobody knows.
1:07:45
There's a small audience of hardcore people that pay attention.
1:07:48
Speaker 1: I've seen somebody fight for the PFL. Clarissa, huh?
1:07:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, she fought for the PFL. She's crazy. That lady's wild.
1:07:55
Speaker 1: She's the best.
1:07:56
Speaker 2: She's wild. She's the best. She's the best.
1:07:58
Speaker 1: There's nobody better.
1:08:00
Speaker 2: I mean, she's the heavyweight champ now. It's crazy.
1:08:03
Speaker 1: I just wish she was kind of smaller so like
1:08:06
some of the smaller girls who really think that they
1:08:08
can be her.
1:08:10
Speaker 2: Right.
1:08:10
Speaker 1: Can see like.
1:08:12
Speaker 2: There's levels. Man. Yeah.
1:08:14
Speaker 1: She's the GOAT.
1:08:15
Speaker 2: She is the GOAT, but she's not getting, I mean,
1:08:18
as much as the love that she does get, she's
1:08:20
not getting what she deserves. And it's just because there's
1:08:23
just not a lot of competition.
1:08:24
Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I don't understand it. It's just
1:08:28
two Olympic gold medals.
1:08:29
Speaker 2: I know.
1:08:30
Speaker 1: Undisputed several times in the sport.
1:08:32
Speaker 2: I know.
1:08:33
Speaker 1: I just don't get it.
1:08:34
Speaker 2: Well, it's just women's boxing does not have the same
1:08:38
level of respect and appreciation that men's boxing does, unfortunately.
1:08:41
Speaker 1: Well, Clarissa, I respect and appreciate you, and you are
1:08:45
my goat.
1:08:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do as well. I've had her on. She's awesome.
1:08:49
I've had her on the podcast. I'm a big fan
1:08:51
of her. And just the only one that had the
1:08:53
courage to fight in MMA. I mean, that was crazy.
1:08:55
Speaker 1: She's tough. And she really did, like, not bad, but
1:08:59
she was fighting against LeBron. competition, so.
1:09:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:09:02
Speaker 1: But she definitely was, like, you could tell she was charming.
1:09:05
Speaker 2: She had to learn the grappling from a beginner's perspective.
1:09:08
Speaker 1: And she was breaking out of them, like, choke moves.
1:09:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's crazy. Well, she knows how to win, you know,
1:09:15
and sometimes that's enough. At that high a level, as
1:09:19
elite a level as she is. But I think she's
1:09:22
rightly just concentrating on boxing because I think she realizes
1:09:25
that to be a world champion in MMA, you kind
1:09:29
of have to abandon boxing.
1:09:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
1:09:31
Speaker 2: And it would be a long journey. And she'd probably
1:09:35
have to absorb a couple more losses.
1:09:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. It ain't really worth it.
1:09:40
Speaker 2: Fuck these girls up in boxing. Yeah.
1:09:42
Speaker 1: And I know she don't like losing.
1:09:44
Speaker 2: No, not at all. No. She's fun. She's a fun
1:09:49
fighter to watch, though. If anybody can get people to
1:09:52
pay attention to women's boxing, it's Claressa.
1:09:54
Speaker 1: Yes, because she's exciting. I don't see it. That's why
1:09:57
I don't understand.
1:09:58
Speaker 2: I don't get it.
1:09:59
Speaker 1: I don't get it. She deserves all her flowers. She's
1:10:02
the true fan. I've never seen nobody, no female as
1:10:07
good as her ever in my life.
1:10:09
Speaker 2: No, she's probably the greatest of all time. I think
1:10:12
everybody would agree. You know, you've had a few great
1:10:15
fighters over the years that have been female fighters, but
1:10:18
she's the real standout. Yeah.
1:10:20
Speaker 1: No question.
1:10:20
Speaker 2: It's just, unfortunately, that sport, I mean, there's not a
1:10:24
lot of women out there that want to get punched
1:10:26
in the face. If you had a room full of 1,000 women,
1:10:29
there might be like one or two that would be like,
1:10:31
I'll try that. You know what I mean?
1:10:33
Speaker 1: No, I think there's some solid female fighters in the
1:10:35
sport of boxing.
1:10:36
Speaker 2: Oh, there are. There are. But not in comparison to
1:10:39
the numbers in men. Men's boxing is just, you know,
1:10:43
a lot of kids grow up, they want to be
1:10:45
a boxer.
1:10:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
1:10:46
Speaker 2: Not a lot of women are like, let me put
1:10:48
the doll down and fuck some chick up. That's an
1:10:53
unusual mindset.
1:10:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
1:10:55
Speaker 2: You know, it's just, you know, it is what it is.
1:11:00
We're fortunate to be able to have her, though. Because, like,
1:11:03
if there's anybody that's going to elevate the sport and
1:11:05
bring in new fighters... is going to be someone who
1:11:08
is really the only person in the sport that gets
1:11:10
a tremendous amount of attention as a woman.
1:11:12
Speaker 1: Yeah. She done became a superstar.
1:11:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:11:15
Speaker 1: It's definitely interesting seeing her in, like, them big arenas
1:11:21
and having all the people walk out with her. It's
1:11:25
amazing to see. So I'm enjoying her process, and I'm
1:11:28
glad that I'm here to witness it.
1:11:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. Yeah. I mean, but, you know, other
1:11:33
than her in the past, there haven't been enough– Like
1:11:37
women that have like really, you know, Christy Martin, Layla Ali,
1:11:42
and there's like a few that.
1:11:44
Speaker 1: I like Ann Wolfe.
1:11:45
Speaker 2: Ann Wolfe was a beast.
1:11:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like her.
1:11:47
Speaker 2: She was one of the few that could flatline a
1:11:48
chick with one shot, too.
1:11:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like her. She was the truth.
1:11:52
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, man. She was the truth. And a great trainer, too.
1:11:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:11:55
Speaker 2: When she was training Kirkland. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Bro, they
1:11:58
showed those videos of what she was putting him through. And,
1:12:02
you know, when he fought Canelo, he didn't have her
1:12:03
in his corner.
1:12:04
Speaker 1: I was just about to say, the fights that he lost,
1:12:06
he kind of did not have her.
1:12:08
Speaker 2: Exactly. She was a fucking general, dude. She was a general.
1:12:12
She put him through some brutal shit. But those were
1:12:16
the fights that he was ultra prepared.
1:12:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:12:19
Speaker 2: You know?
1:12:19
Speaker 1: I think that's the, like, people don't realize. I feel
1:12:22
like the best coaches in the sport of boxing are
1:12:25
the people that kind of box.
1:12:27
Speaker 2: I bet, yeah.
1:12:27
Speaker 1: Like Robert Garcia. I think he's the truth as a coach.
1:12:31
Speaker 2: Sure. Bomack.
1:12:33
Speaker 1: Bomack, another fighter.
1:12:34
Speaker 2: Yep.
1:12:36
Speaker 1: Buddy McGirt.
1:12:37
Speaker 2: Buddy McGirt, yep. Oh, he was a great fighter.
1:12:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just feel like the coaches that's been in
1:12:42
there is kind of like they know.
1:12:44
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah. I think it helps a lot. I mean,
1:12:48
there's a few guys, like Emmanuel Stewart. Did he have
1:12:50
an amateur background?
1:12:52
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah.
1:12:53
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
1:12:53
Speaker 1: I think so, though.
1:12:54
Speaker 2: I think so. But Emmanuel just had a brilliant mind
1:12:57
for the sport.
1:12:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the way he talked, too. I'll be
1:12:59
watching some of his old videos.
1:13:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:13:02
Speaker 1: He actually, it was something that I was doing for
1:13:05
this fight, but I watched a video of him, and
1:13:08
he said, fighters overtrain, like they're overtrained. And when I
1:13:15
seen it, he started explaining the reasons why you know
1:13:18
that they're overtraining. And I seen it, and I started
1:13:21
cutting back on some of it. Some of the things
1:13:23
that I'm doing, I'm like, man, I don't want to
1:13:25
overtrain and don't come out at my best.
1:13:28
Speaker 2: Amateur boxing career. He compiled a record of 94 wins,
1:13:31
3 losses in the amateur, including winning the 1963 National
1:13:35
Golden Gloves Tournament in the bantamweight division. Wow, bantamweight. That's crazy.
1:13:40
Speaker 1: I mean, he was small.
1:13:42
Speaker 2: That's crazy. But, man, what he did with the cronk gym.
1:13:46
He also had this gym, like, cranked up. He made it, like,
1:13:49
98 degrees in there all the time. So everybody was, like,
1:13:52
training in the heat.
1:13:53
Speaker 1: Yep. He had a lot of boxers that was, like,
1:13:56
top-level boxers in there, so they was pushing each other
1:13:59
to get better. Yeah. That's the cheat code right there.
1:14:02
Speaker 2: Oh, it is the cheat code, right? Iron sharpens iron.
1:14:05
Speaker 1: Yep.
1:14:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't be the best boxer in your gym
1:14:09
and have everybody else that's way below you and really
1:14:11
get to that world-class level.
1:14:13
Speaker 1: Impossible. It's impossible. You got to bring in guys that's
1:14:17
on a high level. Honestly, for me... I keep the
1:14:22
young kids that's up and coming. My little cousin, he's
1:14:26
a great boxer. He's up and coming. I just was
1:14:29
in the gym with him yesterday and played sparring with him.
1:14:34
I keep a lot of good boxers around me. A
1:14:36
lot of good boxers. There's another kid, Emmanuel Chance. He's
1:14:39
19 years old. They are so skillful right now to
1:14:45
where when I'm around them, I'm still picking up things
1:14:47
from them. They probably don't even know it, but I'm definitely...
1:14:52
I got my notepad out everywhere I go.
1:14:54
Speaker 2: Well, it's so important, right?
1:14:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, mentally, it's locked in here. Like, I'm watching
1:15:00
and studying.
1:15:00
Speaker 2: Well, it's also, everybody does everything different. Yeah. You know,
1:15:04
and you can just pick up little things here and
1:15:06
there from what they do and start incorporating that. Yep.
1:15:09
Speaker 1: People don't know, right before the fight with Tio, it was,
1:15:14
I'm going to tell you a fight that I was watching.
1:15:15
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:15:16
Speaker 1: I'm going to give out a little secret. It was a,
1:15:21
Eight-year-old kid, Tremaine Williams. He fought a guy named Dusty Harrison. And, like,
1:15:27
they literally eight years old. But I liked the way
1:15:30
Tremaine was fighting in that fight. He was using his jab.
1:15:34
He was the shorter fighter, but he was keeping his
1:15:37
range and distance. And I was literally watching that eight-year-old
1:15:40
kid fight right before the biggest fight of my life.
1:15:43
Speaker 2: That's amazing. And you were studying it. Wow. I swear.
1:15:48
That's great. That's such a great mindset. I mean, that's
1:15:53
how you really grow and learn. You can absorb something
1:15:56
from everybody.
1:15:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can learn from anywhere.
1:15:58
Speaker 2: I was watching an interview with you once where you
1:16:00
were talking about Terrence and you said you really learn
1:16:03
more watching Terrence than being in there.
1:16:07
Speaker 1: I still feel that way. I feel like I learn
1:16:12
more from seeing the things he's doing than being in
1:16:15
the ring with him. When we're in the ring, it's
1:16:17
always chess. We're having chess matches, but When I'm watching,
1:16:21
I can see some of the things he's doing, and
1:16:24
I'm like, damn, this dude is just different. I knew
1:16:28
before the Spence fight what was happening. I knew before
1:16:31
the Canelo fight what was happening. Even when I was
1:16:35
in the locker room, I'm in the locker room, I'm
1:16:37
looking at him, call my Batman. I'm like, yo, put
1:16:40
me some more money in. I know what time it is.
1:16:45
No lie, though.
1:16:47
Speaker 2: But watching him in the gym, you got to see
1:16:51
hard training sessions. You got to see when he looked great.
1:16:54
You got to see bad days in the gym. You
1:16:57
got to see how he recovered, how he came back. Yep.
1:17:02
Speaker 1: Like I said, he's one of the most competitive human
1:17:04
beings I've ever met, so I do get to see
1:17:08
all of it. Like, I get to see, go home
1:17:10
with him, man. Okay, let me see how he thinking
1:17:13
about this. He'll go back and watch the sparring. And
1:17:16
when he watching it, oh, my God, he's adjusting. His
1:17:19
brain is just adjusting to the sparring that he just watched.
1:17:23
And then we'll go in the gym the next day.
1:17:25
And now he's just doing things and everything's just on point.
1:17:30
Speaker 2: So do you do that? Do you watch your sparring sessions?
1:17:32
Speaker 1: I learned that from him.
1:17:33
Speaker 2: Yeah?
1:17:34
Speaker 1: I used to really never used to do that. But
1:17:36
I had seen him. I forget what sparring session he
1:17:41
was watching. I want to say on his iPad. And
1:17:43
he was watching it. And then I seen him spar
1:17:45
the next time. And I'm like, ooh, what he look like.
1:17:49
A million bucks, like the adjustments that he made was
1:17:51
just insane. So I started doing the same thing. I'm like,
1:17:55
if I have a day I don't like, I go home.
1:17:58
Why did I have this day? Oh, my God, I
1:18:02
keep doing that. Why do I keep doing that? Okay,
1:18:05
I'm not doing that no more. Oh, I can hit
1:18:07
him with this. I see that shot is open. Okay,
1:18:09
now I'm going to hit him with this shot. I
1:18:12
think that helps me tremendously.
1:18:15
Speaker 2: That makes sense, like, watching yourself as an observer the
1:18:18
way you would watch an opponent. Yeah. Yeah.
1:18:21
Speaker 1: You got to see what you do good and, like,
1:18:23
what you do bad.
1:18:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:18:25
Speaker 1: And correct the things that you do bad.
1:18:28
Speaker 2: Instead of just remembering it from the training, watching it.
1:18:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I have, like, a bad habit sometimes when I'm, like,
1:18:35
in a boxing gym. I like a fight. I don't have, like,
1:18:41
I don't know why I would get in there. Sometimes
1:18:43
I just turn into a fighter instead of realizing that
1:18:47
I'm a boxer. And then sometimes I get hit with
1:18:50
shots and I'm like, oh, why am I getting hit
1:18:52
with that shot? I'm like, I know. My mental, my
1:18:55
brain was already locked in on fighting instead of being
1:18:58
locked in on boxing. Then you fight.
1:19:01
Speaker 2: Explain to people, what is the difference between your mentality
1:19:04
fighting and your mentality as a boxer?
1:19:07
Speaker 1: When I'm fighting... I'm emotional. And I don't want to
1:19:14
be emotional, but I'm emotional and I'm fighting somebody. I'm
1:19:18
trying to beat them up and I'm having a contest
1:19:22
of who's the bigger and stronger guy. When I'm boxing,
1:19:29
I'm just on top of my game and it's like
1:19:32
I'm able to hit you and you're not able to
1:19:35
hit me. And that's what I do best, so I
1:19:37
try to stick with what I do best, and it's
1:19:41
going to be a time to fight. So I have
1:19:43
that in my arsenal for sure, but I don't like
1:19:47
just doing it for no reason.
1:19:48
Speaker 2: Do you sometimes feel yourself get in an emotional fight
1:19:51
and have to pull it back?
1:19:54
Speaker 1: I never had it happen in a fight. Really? But
1:19:56
I done had it happen, like, in the spur to where, like,
1:19:58
all right, bro, your emotions is just taking control instead of, like,
1:20:03
you just having fun and enjoying what you're doing. Right.
1:20:07
Speaker 2: So I.
1:20:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I done had no moments in the gym for sure.
1:20:11
Speaker 2: So it's just like a composure thing. All of a sudden,
1:20:15
you're now not thinking as much. You're just trying to
1:20:18
beat his ass.
1:20:18
Speaker 1: Take the emotions out of the situation and just be you.
1:20:22
Be present. That's really my main thing. I want to
1:20:25
be present in what I'm doing and not moving off
1:20:29
of feelings. Right, right.
1:20:33
Speaker 2: That probably fucks up a lot of fighters, don't it?
1:20:35
Speaker 1: For sure.
1:20:36
Speaker 2: Because so many, especially men, they're so wrapped up in
1:20:39
their feelings and their emotions when they're fighting.
1:20:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, but fighters don't study they self. I study myself.
1:20:45
I gotta check in with myself and see what am
1:20:49
I doing wrong and what am I doing right and
1:20:51
I correct it.
1:20:52
Speaker 2: You think that's rare?
1:20:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a rare attribute because fighters depend
1:20:58
on their coaches. They depend on their coaches to do everything.
1:21:02
I depend on my grandfather when I need him, but
1:21:06
I know that I'm the fighter that's in there, so
1:21:10
I'm not trying to just depend on them. I want
1:21:11
to depend on myself also.
1:21:14
Speaker 2: So, like, do you try to get the other guys
1:21:18
in the gym to follow your footsteps and watch footage?
1:21:21
You tell them, like, help them out with that?
1:21:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, the younger guys that I just mentioned, my
1:21:27
little cousin and my little brother down there, Manny, I
1:21:31
try to tell them to, Tune in with they self
1:21:34
and do the same similar things. Watch yourself. See what
1:21:36
you're doing wrong and try to correct it. But they younger,
1:21:40
so as time go on, they will, like, pick up
1:21:44
on it. But I can't rush how I feel and
1:21:46
my beliefs on them right now.
1:21:49
Speaker 2: Well, the best thing you could do is lead by example. Yeah. Always.
1:21:52
Speaker 1: That's my main thing.
1:21:53
Speaker 2: Yeah. If you do all the hard work and you
1:21:56
put in, they'll see your success. Yep. When they have
1:21:59
harder moments, they'll go, okay, what do I need to adjust? Yep.
1:22:02
Let me follow Shakur.
1:22:03
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:22:04
Speaker 2: Well, let me see what the champ is doing.
1:22:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the goal. That's my main goal because, like
1:22:10
I said, I ain't going to be boxing forever. So
1:22:12
once I'm done, I'm going to sit back and I'm
1:22:14
going to help them out.
1:22:16
Speaker 2: Do you plan on coaching when you're done?
1:22:19
Speaker 1: I probably don't coach.
1:22:21
Speaker 2: Just help out in the gym?
1:22:23
Speaker 1: Just call me a secret weapon. Call me a secret weapon.
1:22:28
I'll be that guy.
1:22:29
Speaker 2: Do you already think about what you're going to do
1:22:31
when you retire? Because boxing is a sport where when
1:22:35
you retire, you still have so much life ahead of you.
1:22:38
Speaker 1: Man, that's the truth. But I've been trying to figure
1:22:43
it out because I know it's going to be within boxing.
1:22:47
But whatever I do, I'm going to do to the
1:22:49
best of my ability. I'm going to want to make
1:22:53
tons of money for what I'm doing. And if I'm
1:22:58
a secret weapon, shit, I might make money just being
1:23:01
a secret weapon.
1:23:02
Speaker 2: So we'll see. Right. Just someone to bring into camp.
1:23:05
Speaker 1: I'm the right guy for it.
1:23:07
Speaker 2: Yeah?
1:23:07
Speaker 1: I got all the IQ. I watch too much boxing.
1:23:11
My life is literally sit down and watch TV, watch iPad, watch.
1:23:18
Speaker 2: Right.
1:23:19
Speaker 1: I just live boxing, so I think that'll be kind
1:23:22
of easy. But I just see myself taking over the world.
1:23:28
Speaker 2: In what way? I don't know.
1:23:29
Speaker 1: I can't tell you.
1:23:30
Speaker 2: I don't know.
1:23:31
Speaker 1: My brain kind of different. I don't feel like... I
1:23:36
know for a fact I'm not going to be boxing
1:23:38
for long. I don't plan on getting in the ring,
1:23:41
doing the wrist, and doing all that forever. When I
1:23:46
take over the world, it's going to be more so
1:23:48
me just locking in and using the same focus that
1:23:51
I got for boxing into whatever else that I'm doing there.
1:23:56
take over like whatever i do i want to be
1:23:58
the best and.
1:24:00
Speaker 2: So you don't even have a thought of what it's
1:24:02
going to be you'll figure that out when you get
1:24:04
out of boxing.
1:24:05
Speaker 1: I journal a lot so i'll be writing things down
1:24:07
so i can't tell you exactly what it's going to
1:24:10
be but i do know that i'm gonna be somewhere
1:24:14
making millions in a different um atmosphere.
1:24:18
Speaker 2: Well that's a great attitude to have i'm glad you
1:24:20
say you journal because this is one of the things
1:24:22
that i wanted to bring up I wish more boxers
1:24:27
were interested in writing books because I think there's some
1:24:30
of the things that you're talking about today and some
1:24:33
of the things you're talking about in terms of watching yourself,
1:24:36
analyzing yourself, things you've learned, that would be very, very
1:24:39
valuable if it's written down. But boxing knowledge is all
1:24:46
word of mouth in the gym. It's all people who
1:24:49
know things, tell other people, and they learn things. And
1:24:52
you've got to go to these gyms and talk to
1:24:53
these people. Or you get boxing knowledge from the commentators
1:24:56
like Andre Ward will spit it out or Roy Jones
1:24:59
will spit it out. That is where boxing knowledge gets
1:25:05
sort of recorded. But I think it would be great
1:25:09
if boxers could sit down and write just on boxing.
1:25:14
because you think about like what a huge sport boxing
1:25:18
is huge sport, like one of the pinnacles of sports
1:25:22
of combat sports, but yet there's not a lot of
1:25:27
books written about technique and style and how they learn
1:25:31
things and what they learned and why and what changed.
1:25:36
And I learned that in this fight, in this fight,
1:25:38
this changed. And I adjusted this about my training sessions and,
1:25:42
I heard Emmanuel Stewart talk about overtraining, and so I
1:25:45
realized maybe I was doing that.
1:25:47
Speaker 1: It is one book.
1:25:49
Speaker 2: What is it?
1:25:50
Speaker 1: Andre Will book.
1:25:51
Speaker 2: Oh, that's right.
1:25:52
Speaker 1: People got to read it, but I'm not fully done
1:25:55
with it either. But as I read through some of it,
1:25:59
he's giving out some free game. It's free game in
1:26:03
there that people could go listen to and read it
1:26:06
and check it out because it's definitely like.
1:26:09
Speaker 2: Did he read it for the audio book?
1:26:12
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I know I got
1:26:14
the actual book, so I just read it. But I
1:26:16
didn't finish it. I won't say that I finished it.
1:26:19
Speaker 2: But he talks all about those things?
1:26:21
Speaker 1: It's a lot of things in there that's like free game. Like, okay, ooh,
1:26:24
I like that. I'm like, take that. Even if you're
1:26:28
training a fighter, you're training a fighter. It's something that
1:26:32
I saw that he said that I'm like, okay, I'm
1:26:35
going to take that if I'm going.
1:26:36
Speaker 2: To train fighters. Narrated by Andre Ward. Perfect. Killing the image.
1:26:40
A champion's journey. Fighting and forgiveness. He's the perfect guy
1:26:44
to do that, too. Because like I said, he's the
1:26:46
guy that did it right. Went out on top. What's that?
1:26:50
Speaker 1: He helped you understand.
1:26:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we need more books like that. I'll
1:26:55
read that book. I haven't read it, but I'll read it.
1:26:57
Because I think it's just there's so much knowledge out
1:27:02
there in certain camps. And it would benefit the entire sport.
1:27:06
If someone would document some of that stuff, because some
1:27:09
of that stuff is only told to the fighters that
1:27:12
this guy's training and only told to the other fighters
1:27:15
this guy trains with. And it's not it's not out
1:27:19
there and it could get lost. You know, I'm sure
1:27:22
there's some shit that Floyd knows that only people around
1:27:26
him know that have been told that will be lost. Yeah,
1:27:29
for sure. You know what I'm saying?
1:27:30
Speaker 1: It's something he told me before this last fight that
1:27:33
I took in, and I'm like, ooh.
1:27:35
Speaker 2: Really? What'd he say? I'm using that.
1:27:37
Speaker 1: It's simple, though. It's very simple. Like I said, it's
1:27:42
hard for me to keep giving up. Maybe when I retire.
1:27:46
Speaker 2: Oh, come on, man. What'd he say?
1:27:49
Speaker 1: No, he just told me stretching.
1:27:52
Speaker 2: Stretching?
1:27:53
Speaker 1: Stretching. How powerful stretching is. And I just gave up.
1:27:59
It's simple, though. People know it, but do people do it?
1:28:04
Speaker 2: Dude, people don't even do it in MMA. You know
1:28:07
how crazy that is? Where you have to kick and
1:28:09
people don't stretch? I was having a conversation with this
1:28:12
dude who was a world champion, and I was explaining
1:28:14
to him a jiu-jitsu position. I was like, this is
1:28:17
why it's effective. He's like, oh, I can't get my
1:28:19
legs up that high. I go, what are you talking about?
1:28:22
You can. You just have to stretch. He goes, I
1:28:24
don't really stretch. I go, that's crazy.
1:28:26
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Fighters in sports, that's like, I
1:28:32
don't see it.
1:28:33
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
1:28:34
Speaker 1: I don't see it.
1:28:35
Speaker 2: Well, Floyd has always been a guy who did everything right.
1:28:39
I mean, if you want to emulate a guy's career,
1:28:42
Floyd has been hit hard maybe three times in his
1:28:46
whole career. Yeah. Maybe.
1:28:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the truth.
1:28:50
Speaker 2: 100%.
1:28:51
Speaker 1: Every time I watch him.
1:28:52
Speaker 2: He's a wizard.
1:28:53
Speaker 1: I've barely seen anybody that good. Like for me personally.
1:28:58
Speaker 2: Yes.
1:28:59
Speaker 1: Barely, like, it's only a handful of people that I
1:29:02
could say, like, okay, they're that good. Like, his brain
1:29:06
just working at a different level than a lot of people.
1:29:08
Speaker 2: Also, just insanely disciplined, always in shape, always took care
1:29:12
of himself, would go out to a club, drink water,
1:29:16
and then run home in jeans.
1:29:18
Speaker 1: In jeans. That's tough. I heard he had on, like, boots.
1:29:23
Speaker 2: Boots.
1:29:25
Speaker 1: I never heard of that like that before.
1:29:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can imagine. I mean, but that's the results, right?
1:29:31
You get a guy who's just head and shoulders above
1:29:33
everybody he fights. And just a master of pinpoint precision
1:29:39
and movement and knowing where you are and hard to
1:29:42
hit but stood right in front of you. That's the
1:29:45
crazy thing about Floyd. There's a lot of guys that
1:29:47
are hard to hit, but they were like fleet of
1:29:49
foot and moving around and footwork and Lomachenko style, you know?
1:29:53
Not Floyd. Right in front of you. Right in front
1:29:55
of you, you can't hit him.
1:29:56
Speaker 1: Crazy. Kind of similar to me.
1:29:59
Speaker 2: Yes.
1:30:00
Speaker 1: But, no, I think he's definitely, he's a Chico.
1:30:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:30:05
Speaker 1: His mental was just too far ahead of everybody else's.
1:30:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:30:08
Speaker 1: That's the main thing.
1:30:10
Speaker 2: Well, the one fight between, like, guys who retired and
1:30:14
came back that I'm still interested in seeing is him
1:30:17
and Manny. And I know they're going to do that
1:30:19
on Netflix. Floyd. I think that's still a high-level fight, though.
1:30:24
That's what I love about it. Because I think Manny
1:30:26
is still a high-level fighter. And Floyd, even in these
1:30:31
exhibitions that he's been doing... He be looking good, huh?
1:30:33
He looks great, man. He looks great in sparring. You
1:30:36
see him in sparring, like, good Lord, man. It doesn't
1:30:39
look like he's lost a step.
1:30:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. Honestly, I don't see Manny being able to beat
1:30:45
Floyd Mayweather. Like, I don't see it. I think Manny
1:30:48
looked solid his last fight with Barrios, but.
1:30:53
I just don't see Floyd losing. Like, I think it's
1:30:55
some guys that he could come back today in the
1:30:59
sport of boxing and fight.
1:31:01
Speaker 2: I think so.
1:31:02
Speaker 1: Like, guys like Barrios. Even though he's 46.
1:31:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
1:31:04
Speaker 1: I think he would.
1:31:05
Speaker 2: He would light Barrios up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean,
1:31:09
there's levels. I mean, no matter what he's lost being 46,
1:31:12
they haven't gained that yet. I mean, they were never
1:31:16
there in the first place. So if he was here
1:31:19
and he's lost this much, they're still here. Yeah. Even
1:31:22
though he's not Floyd that fought Canelo or Floyd that
1:31:27
fought Ricky Hatton, it's not the same Floyd. It's not
1:31:32
that much different.
1:31:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's still so far ahead.
1:31:36
Speaker 2: Because he's not drinking. He's not fucking his body up.
1:31:38
He's not doing anything stupid. He stays in shape. He
1:31:41
eats right. Yeah.
1:31:43
Speaker 1: I appreciate Floyd, too, because that's one of the guys
1:31:47
that I never did no business with ever. And he
1:31:51
still kind of helped me. So I appreciate him, man.
1:31:55
I think he's a real dude. He got my love
1:31:58
and respect.
1:32:00
Speaker 2: Well, I always say that if you wanted to have
1:32:03
a style that you emulate where you want to have
1:32:05
a great career, look at that guy. Like, really, very
1:32:09
few times in his career ever got hurt. Very, very few.
1:32:12
You can count him on one hand, you know, where
1:32:15
he was in any kind of trouble at all.
1:32:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my goal.
1:32:18
Speaker 2: And then in rematches, oh, my God. In rematches, he's
1:32:22
always just like Maidana. Like Maidana, the first fight was
1:32:26
a rough fight. Yeah. Second fight, he looked like a master.
1:32:30
Speaker 1: I'm not going to lie, though. He's one of the
1:32:32
guys that makes me want to, like, feel the experience of, like,
1:32:37
getting hurt. Because, like, when he fought Shane Mosley, that
1:32:42
moment of, like, he lost his whole balance, everything almost
1:32:48
went to his feet, but he stayed up.
1:32:50
Speaker 2: Yep.
1:32:51
Speaker 1: And then he fought back harder. Like, I feel like
1:32:53
that was, like, an amazing moment of his career. And, like,
1:32:57
for me, I want to have the experience, like, of
1:33:01
that moment. Like, I have never got hit, like, cracked
1:33:05
like that yet in a pro. So I actually want
1:33:08
to experience that.
1:33:08
Speaker 2: You really want that?
1:33:09
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:33:10
Speaker 2: Really? That's crazy.
1:33:11
Speaker 1: Because I want to show, like.
1:33:12
Speaker 2: That you can do it.
1:33:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, you've got to see, like, I've got more
1:33:15
in me than just being, like, a good boxer. Like,
1:33:19
I'm a good boxer, but I'm tough, too.
1:33:20
Speaker 2: The Mosley fight was probably the fight where he got
1:33:22
hurt the most. Yeah. Yeah, and the most dangerous because
1:33:25
it was like, I think it was kind of in
1:33:27
the middle of the round, right? Yeah. Yeah.
1:33:29
Speaker 1: I want to feel that experience.
1:33:31
Speaker 2: Wow. And that was prime Mosley too.
1:33:33
Speaker 1: I told Andre Ward that. He told me, he's like, man,
1:33:35
why would you want to? Why would you want to?
1:33:39
But I'm like, I don't understand why, but I definitely do.
1:33:42
Speaker 2: Who do you think out there could do that? I
1:33:44
don't think nobody.
1:33:48
Speaker 1: I don't think they're like, Mentally, on the level of TV,
1:33:52
I think I'm just too far ahead.
1:33:55
Speaker 2: But that's the problem with being too far ahead, is
1:33:58
that it's going to be hard for you to get fights. Yeah.
1:34:01
What are they talking about right now? Is there anybody
1:34:02
that they're talking about right now for you?
1:34:05
Speaker 1: No, I haven't really heard none from a business standpoint
1:34:09
since my last fight, so.
1:34:12
Speaker 2: The problem is the last fight was too good. You know, like,
1:34:15
you would have probably got some offers before that fight,
1:34:18
but after that fight, everybody's like, hold on. I don't
1:34:21
know if I want that to happen to me.
1:34:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't... I have no clue who I'll be
1:34:26
fighting next.
1:34:27
Speaker 2: Who do you have your sights on? Like, who do you... Like,
1:34:30
if you could make the decision, who do you think
1:34:32
is interesting right now?
1:34:33
Speaker 1: If I could make a decision, interest, what interests me, maybe,
1:34:37
and this is crazy to say, um.
1:34:42
I may go back to 35 and get that ring belt.
1:34:45
Speaker 2: Really? I may.
1:34:46
Speaker 1: We'll see though.
1:34:47
Speaker 2: Yeah?
1:34:48
Speaker 1: I can't promise that I will, but I may.
1:34:50
Speaker 2: What makes that more interesting to you?
1:34:55
Speaker 1: I like the ring belt. I like the ring magazine belt.
1:34:58
I don't know what it is about it.
1:35:00
Speaker 2: It's a classic belt.
1:35:02
Speaker 1: But for me to have a ring belt at 130
1:35:06
and then I got a ring belt right now at 140.
1:35:11
But I never had a ring belt at 35. And
1:35:14
it's like, should I just go get that ring belt
1:35:19
just to have it?
1:35:20
Speaker 2: So it's the belt, not even the opponent?
1:35:23
Speaker 1: I know the opponent that I would have to fight
1:35:25
to get it. I'm hearing it's Raymond Moritaya. He's a
1:35:29
good fighter. He just beat Andy Cruz. So, nah, this
1:35:32
ain't the opponent. It's more so just to have the
1:35:35
ring belt.
1:35:36
Speaker 2: That's crazy. Like, you're at a position where you're not
1:35:39
even thinking about opponents. You're thinking about belts you'd like
1:35:41
to acquire.
1:35:44
Speaker 1: For sure.
1:35:45
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool, though. I mean, that's a beautiful place
1:35:48
to be in.
1:35:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:35:49
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. But what about opponents? Is there any opponents? Like,
1:35:52
if you had, like, if no one could say no
1:35:56
and you were like, I'm going to orchestrate my career,
1:35:59
who would you like to fight?
1:36:01
Speaker 1: If it was no opponents... I mean, and I was orchestrating,
1:36:08
I probably.
1:36:10
Speaker 2: Because the fight that I would think that would generate
1:36:13
the most amount of interest at 135 would be Tank. Now,
1:36:17
I know Tank's got some legal issues now, and I
1:36:21
don't know what his status is currently, but when it
1:36:25
comes to big names, Tank is the big name at 35. Yeah.
1:36:31
Speaker 1: I would love for it to happen, but Um, the
1:36:36
way that he went on, like, social media and kind of, like,
1:36:40
bashed me in a way to where it was like
1:36:42
he made it seem like I need, I need him. And, um,
1:36:48
I just feel disrespected about it because at the end
1:36:50
of the day, I'm a grown man. I make my
1:36:53
own money. I'm living a spectacular life. I don't need nobody. So, um,
1:36:59
if he feel as though I need him and if
1:37:01
it's that kind of stuff, then it's like, whatever. I
1:37:04
don't know. I'm not in need of that fight.
1:37:07
Speaker 2: The thing is, is, like, Tank had gotten a bunch
1:37:09
of those high-profile fights. He KO'd Ryan. He's had some
1:37:13
big high-profile fights. He looked great. And so for him
1:37:17
to say that, he's probably... You know, he's talking shit, obviously.
1:37:21
But he's, like, looking at you as, like, you haven't had...
1:37:24
Before the Lopez fight, you haven't had that big breakout fight.
1:37:28
But now you have. Now you have, and it was...
1:37:32
More spectacular than, I mean, if you wanted to write
1:37:35
out a perfect result on paper against a world champion
1:37:38
like Tiafimo, that would be the fight you would say. Yeah.
1:37:41
So that's, if I had to think of like a
1:37:44
big fight for you, if I was the guy with
1:37:46
the magic wand, that would be the fight that I
1:37:48
would set up.
1:37:49
Speaker 1: I would love to fight.
1:37:51
Speaker 2: That would be a big fight. I would love for
1:37:52
that fight to happen. Ooh, that would be a big fight.
1:37:54
Especially after you just beat Lopez, that would be a
1:37:57
big fight.
1:37:58
Speaker 1: I would love for the fight to happen.
1:38:00
Speaker 2: That might be the only big fight that I could
1:38:01
think of other than you going up. But 47, like
1:38:05
you said, that's a big jump, man.
1:38:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not. I'll make it, though. I'll make it soon. Soon,
1:38:12
I mean, later than sooner.
1:38:14
Speaker 2: Do you think if you did that, you would want
1:38:17
to prepare and put mass on, or would you just
1:38:20
stay at the weight you are and just get accustomed
1:38:23
to fighting bigger guys?
1:38:25
Speaker 1: If I was to go to 47, I would want
1:38:27
to prepare.
1:38:28
Speaker 2: I would.
1:38:29
Speaker 1: Want to do it slowly. I wouldn't want to just
1:38:34
jump to 147.
1:38:35
Speaker 2: You would want to put on weight, you think?
1:38:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, some type of weight, yeah. Because I'm little. I
1:38:43
can't just jump the ring at the size that I
1:38:46
am at 147 pounds when I know guys are going
1:38:49
to be a lot bigger.
1:38:50
Speaker 2: Right, especially when you're talking about Ryan being 170 when
1:38:53
he gets in the ring. He might even be bigger
1:38:55
than that. He was big and ripped in his last fight.
1:38:58
He looked fucking great.
1:38:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
1:39:01
Speaker 2: But it's like that's one of those things, too, is
1:39:07
if you do go up, going down gets real hard.
1:39:11
Going back, like if you go up to 47.
1:39:13
Speaker 1: They always say that. I don't understand the reason with that.
1:39:17
Speaker 2: Because your body gets accustomed to being bigger. For real? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:39:20
So if you put on mass, right, so if you
1:39:22
put on muscle and you go up to like 147,
1:39:26
and so you're walking around at 155, 160, something like that,
1:39:29
and you drop down to 47, you've got more shoulder muscle,
1:39:33
chest muscle, back muscle, leg muscle. If you stay at
1:39:38
that weight and then you've got to cut down to 35,
1:39:41
you're going to feel like shit. And the example that
1:39:44
I always use is Roy. Okay. So when Roy Jones
1:39:47
went up and fought John Ruiz, won the heavyweight title,
1:39:49
then he went back down to light heavyweight, he never
1:39:52
looked the same. Because he was 200 pounds solid at
1:39:56
a heavyweight. Ripped, like muscular, 200 pounds. For him to
1:40:01
lose 25 pounds of weight and go back down to
1:40:05
light heavyweight, that is fucking hard.
1:40:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. I get that. I feel like
1:40:11
when Roy did that, Roy was like, I think he
1:40:17
must have been trying to set up a big heavyweight
1:40:19
fight maybe, or was he just trying to just win
1:40:21
a title?
1:40:22
Speaker 2: I mean, I think he was just trying to be
1:40:23
like the only guy to go from middleweight to win
1:40:25
the heavyweight title, which he did.
1:40:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't understand why he did that because you're right.
1:40:30
When he fought Tarver, it was like, I don't know
1:40:33
what was happening. I didn't really think Tarver was as
1:40:38
good as Rory, but Tarver beat Rory.
1:40:40
Speaker 2: Tarver's a bad motherfucker though. Tarver's a very good fighter.
1:40:45
Speaker 1: But to me, Roy, he wasn't.
1:40:47
Speaker 2: I think Tarver in that fight, first of all, they
1:40:50
had fought before, right? They had a real close decision loss,
1:40:54
Tarver lost. And then Tarver got in his head at
1:40:57
the beginning of the fight and said, you got any
1:40:59
excuses tonight, Roy?
1:41:00
Speaker 1: That was crazy.
1:41:00
Speaker 2: That was crazy. That was crazy. Like, to hear that, like,
1:41:04
right when you're about to fight.
1:41:06
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:41:06
Speaker 2: Any questions for the champion? Any questions for the champion?
1:41:09
Got any excuses tonight, Roy?
1:41:11
Speaker 1: Oh, my God, Roy. Man, I don't know.
1:41:15
Speaker 2: That was one of the wildest things anybody's ever said.
1:41:17
Speaker 1: That would have turned me up, though. Like, if he
1:41:19
would have said that to me, like, I'm trying to
1:41:21
picture somebody saying that to me right before we fight.
1:41:24
Now I'm going to want to... I already want to
1:41:26
beat you bad. Right. Now I'm going to want to
1:41:28
beat you even badder. Like, then after the fight, I'm
1:41:31
going to get on the mic and... What did you say?
1:41:33
Did you say something?
1:41:34
Speaker 2: But when he dropped Roy and knocked him out, I
1:41:36
was like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. Yeah. But...
1:41:40
I was worried about him because I know what that
1:41:43
does to people when they drop weight. And dropping down
1:41:46
from 200 pounds to 175 will really wear your body out.
1:41:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you think it was more so the weight
1:41:52
than the skills of Tarva?
1:41:55
Speaker 2: I would never say that. Because I think Tarver has
1:41:57
elite skills. Elite? I think he's elite. Oh, come on.
1:42:02
I think Tarver's an elite fighter. Elite? You don't think
1:42:05
he's elite? No.
1:42:06
Speaker 1: No. With all due respect to Tarver.
1:42:09
Speaker 2: Great performances and not as good performances, but I think
1:42:12
in the performance against Roy, he looked elite.
1:42:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looked good that night.
1:42:16
Speaker 2: Because he rose to the occasion.
1:42:19
Speaker 1: I just don't know about elite. Elite level.
1:42:22
Speaker 2: I get it.
1:42:22
Speaker 1: For me personally, I'm not the biggest Tarver fan, so.
1:42:26
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I defer to your championship knowledge. But, I mean,
1:42:30
in that fight, you can't say that he didn't look
1:42:32
spectacular in.
1:42:33
Speaker 1: That fight against Roy. No, he did.
1:42:34
Speaker 2: He did.
1:42:35
Speaker 1: He looked on point. He looked like he was the
1:42:37
better fighter at that moment.
1:42:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, awkward, southpaw.
1:42:41
Speaker 1: When I watched the first fight, I thought Roy was
1:42:43
a way better fighter than him. I thought Roy just
1:42:45
stood on the ropes for way too long. I don't
1:42:48
know why he did that.
1:42:51
Speaker 2: Was the first fight before or after he fought Ruiz?
1:42:58
Speaker 1: It was after.
1:43:00
Speaker 2: Was it after the first fight they had, too? Yeah.
1:43:02
That probably wore his ass out, too. I just think
1:43:05
once you go all the way up like that, you
1:43:07
should probably stay there. Yeah. And I don't know how
1:43:10
he went up. I don't want to, you know, it's
1:43:13
hard for a guy in his 30s to put on
1:43:16
that kind of muscle. Yeah. And generally, you have some help.
1:43:20
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:43:21
Speaker 2: So... Generally some Mexican supplements involved and so the problem
1:43:26
is Once you have taken that stuff and then you
1:43:32
stop taking it because you want to go back to
1:43:34
your normal weight Your whole endocrine system gets fucked up.
1:43:38
This is the problem with juicers is Guys who take juice,
1:43:42
the thing that happens.
1:43:42
Speaker 1: Is- Man, don't tell me this. Hold on.
1:43:45
Speaker 2: No. Listen, I'm not saying this about Roy. Okay, okay, okay.
1:43:47
Speaker 1: I'm saying this about fighters in general.
1:43:48
Speaker 2: We just talk in general.
1:43:50
Speaker 1: Are we good?
1:43:50
Speaker 2: Fighters that gain weight and have lean muscle and put
1:43:55
on that kind of mass, generally, they're doing it with
1:43:59
some kind of supplement, some kind of either steroids or
1:44:03
something that juices up your endocrine system, whether it is peptides.
1:44:06
And it'll help you gain weight? Yes. Yes.
1:44:09
Speaker 1: Damn, I never heard of this.
1:44:10
Speaker 2: You didn't know?
1:44:11
Speaker 1: Nah.
1:44:12
Speaker 2: What? Come on, man. You don't... For real?
1:44:14
Speaker 1: Nah, I didn't know.
1:44:15
Speaker 2: Oh, come on. There's a lot of fighters that took stuff. Oh,
1:44:17
I know.
1:44:17
Speaker 1: No, I know that.
1:44:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:44:18
Speaker 1: I know that people is cheating.
1:44:21
Speaker 2: Oh, well, in the older days, before they were testing?
1:44:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:44:24
Speaker 2: Oh, come on, man. Like, in the 90s? Who knows
1:44:27
how many guys were on steroids?
1:44:29
Speaker 1: Damn, that take away the credit of them guys, because
1:44:32
I feel like when I watched them guys, they was
1:44:35
the truth.
1:44:35
Speaker 2: Now, you tell me. They are the truth. But I
1:44:37
don't think... I think, well, let me use what I
1:44:41
know for an example. An MMA. MMA is a better example. Yeah.
1:44:46
Because an MMA, fucking for sure, I could tell you
1:44:50
100% people were juicing. 100%. Because I knew guys who
1:44:54
were juicing. Yeah. They would tell me what they were
1:44:56
on and everybody was juicing. So then they started implementing,
1:45:03
so then the UFC starts getting sanctioned by athletic commissions
1:45:06
and they test day of the fight. Yeah. The day
1:45:08
of the fight test is an intelligence test. It's not
1:45:11
a steroids test. It's like, were you intelligent enough to
1:45:14
cycle off right before the fight with the right kind
1:45:17
of steroids so that on the weigh-in day when you
1:45:20
get tested, you don't test positive? That's all it is.
1:45:24
And a lot of these camps, like big MMA camps,
1:45:27
they have scientists working in the camps.
1:45:30
Speaker 1: That's helping them cheat.
1:45:31
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
1:45:33
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
1:45:34
Speaker 2: Now, not so much anymore. This is scary. Because then
1:45:37
the UFC, it is scary. But the thing is, everybody
1:45:40
was doing it. And then on top of that, you
1:45:42
had an organization like Pride. And I don't know if
1:45:45
you're aware of Pride, but Pride was the big organization
1:45:49
in Japan. I mean, they were selling out 90,000 seat
1:45:54
arenas in Japan for these promotions. They were fucking huge.
1:45:57
And everyone was juiced to the tits. I don't know
1:46:02
if everybody was, but a lot. I don't think Rampage was.
1:46:04
Rampage told me he never took steroids, and I believe him.
1:46:07
But a lot of guys were juiced up. And I
1:46:10
know for a fact they were juiced up because they
1:46:12
told me. They told me. And they also told me
1:46:16
like Ensign Inouye, who fought for pride, told me that
1:46:19
on his contract. Yeah, Ensign Inouye. Yeah, like not related,
1:46:25
but same last name. Ensign, he was a great fighter,
1:46:29
a pioneer at MMA. Ensign told me that on his
1:46:32
pride contract, it said in all capital letters, We do
1:46:35
not test for steroids. I had a friend of mine
1:46:39
in Japan. They encouraged him to take steroids.
1:46:42
Speaker 1: See, this scared me because I got to get in
1:46:45
a boxing ring and I know that people be cheating.
1:46:48
Speaker 2: Some people cheat.
1:46:49
Speaker 1: I know. It's be like low-level fighters that you'll go
1:46:52
there and you'll be like, why do this guy punch
1:46:55
way harder than a lot of people?
1:46:59
Speaker 2: Right.
1:46:59
Speaker 1: I don't understand it. And it's like, I don't know.
1:47:01
Speaker 2: Well, there's a few fighters in MMA that when steroids
1:47:05
started being tested for, their body shrunk, and then their
1:47:10
power went away. Like, there was guys that were knocking
1:47:12
everybody out, and then also they couldn't knock anybody out.
1:47:15
It's crazy. I mean, there's so many stories in MMA
1:47:19
where you see fighters' physiques just deflate. Like, they're a balloon.
1:47:24
They got air let out of it.
1:47:25
Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen it in boxing, though. I
1:47:27
see guys, they kind of, like, get caught with steroids.
1:47:30
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
1:47:30
Speaker 1: And then they have a fight after that, and it's like.
1:47:33
Speaker 2: They look like shit.
1:47:34
Speaker 1: Where did the power go?
1:47:34
Speaker 2: Exactly. You lost all of your power?
1:47:37
Speaker 1: That's fact.
1:47:38
Speaker 2: That's fact.
1:47:39
Speaker 1: I get it.
1:47:40
Speaker 2: That does happen. And then there's also ways that we
1:47:44
can't figure out what they're doing yet. I mean, this
1:47:47
has happened all throughout sports, right? This was the whole
1:47:50
thing with Barry Bonds and the Balco scandal in baseball.
1:47:53
They had developed a steroid called the Clear. And what
1:47:56
the clear was was a steroid that was undetectable. They
1:47:59
hadn't figured it. But eventually they got caught. And so
1:48:02
who knows what kind of shit. It's not like they
1:48:04
stopped trying to innovate and come up with ways to
1:48:07
get an advantage. There's definitely people doing it now. But
1:48:10
the way the UFC works now, first they brought in USADA.
1:48:15
Now they have a company called Drug Free Sport that
1:48:17
does the same thing. And they just show up. and
1:48:20
test you. You don't get a notification it's going to
1:48:23
happen next Tuesday. So you can take a bunch of
1:48:25
shit that clears it out of your system. So they
1:48:27
just show up, knock on your door, hey, it's time
1:48:30
for a test. That's what VADA do. That's how they
1:48:33
should do it.
1:48:33
Speaker 1: VADA do the same thing. They just show up.
1:48:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how they should do it. Urine, blood. Yep.
1:48:39
Speaker 1: Just any time. Actually, my last camp, they tested me
1:48:42
like four or five times.
1:48:45
Speaker 2: Like, God damn. Well, that's the only way to know.
1:48:48
You got to show up randomly and test guys. That's
1:48:51
the only way to know.
1:48:52
Speaker 1: I'm cool with it, though, because I ain't never ever
1:48:54
really did anything when it comes to cheating.
1:48:58
Speaker 2: But if you go, and this is, again, not casting
1:49:00
any disparaging remarks about Roy, who's one of the greatest
1:49:03
of all time. But if you went back to the
1:49:05
Ruiz fight, do you think they were testing him? I
1:49:07
fucking doubt it. I fucking doubt it. There was no
1:49:10
VADA testing back then.
1:49:11
Speaker 1: But then USADA was in boxing?
1:49:14
Speaker 2: No. No? I don't think so. No, no.
1:49:17
Speaker 1: I could have sworn they was in boxing.
1:49:19
Speaker 2: Okay, let's find out. Was the Roy Jones, John Ruiz Jr. fight,
1:49:24
did they utilize VADA testing? I don't think they did.
1:49:28
Speaker 1: USADA.
1:49:28
Speaker 2: USADA? USADA. Okay, USADA. I don't think they did. I
1:49:33
don't think, look, that was always a thing about Manny.
1:49:37
People always said that about Manny.
1:49:40
Speaker 1: I heard that, too.
1:49:41
Speaker 2: Right.
1:49:41
Speaker 1: Only reason why it was believable, though, because I.
1:49:44
Speaker 2: Never— He went up eight weight classes.
1:49:45
Speaker 1: I never seen that in my life.
1:49:47
Speaker 2: And kept the knockout power.
1:49:48
Speaker 1: I never seen that in my life.
1:49:50
Speaker 2: Right.
1:49:51
Speaker 1: I never in the history of the sport, you go from.
1:49:54
Speaker 2: One, what, 109 or— Whatever he started at.
1:49:57
Speaker 1: To 154, and you're just knocking guys out.
1:50:00
Speaker 2: I know.
1:50:01
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
1:50:02
Speaker 2: And his physique, you know? I mean, he looks fantastic
1:50:06
at every step of the way. And he also had
1:50:09
that dude— What did it say? It was not held
1:50:13
under a modern UFC-style USADA program. There's no record of
1:50:17
it being part of any independent year-round USADA-VADA scheme like
1:50:21
we see today.
1:50:22
Speaker 1: So they just depended on the Athletic Commission.
1:50:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, but again, the Athletic Commission.
1:50:27
Speaker 1: It's just fight day.
1:50:28
Speaker 2: It's an intelligence test.
1:50:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:50:30
Speaker 2: I mean, I will show you. Show him Alistair Overeem
1:50:36
when he fought Brock Lesnar at the weigh-in. Now, Alistair
1:50:40
Overeem is the greatest example in MMA of a guy who,
1:50:45
when he was on the juice, he was unstoppable. Unstoppable.
1:50:49
They called him Uber-eem when he was unstoppable because he
1:50:52
looked like a comic book superhero. He was so jacked.
1:50:56
And then when they started doing USADA testing- He looked
1:50:59
completely different. I mean, completely different. He got softer. He
1:51:03
still looked good, but he didn't look like Uberim. There's
1:51:07
an image of him flexing on the scale. Like, look
1:51:11
at him right there. Come on, son. I mean, come on.
1:51:15
Look at that girl. Look at Ariane's face when she's
1:51:18
looking at his back. She's like, what the fuck? And
1:51:22
that was... I mean, come on, man. He was a
1:51:26
fucking monster.
1:51:26
Speaker 1: He was knocking guys out.
1:51:27
Speaker 2: He was destroying everybody. He was destroying everybody when he
1:51:32
was juiced up. And he started his career as a
1:51:34
light heavyweight. So he started his career as a 205-pound
1:51:37
guy who was thin and skinny.
1:51:40
Speaker 1: That's light heavyweight?
1:51:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's light heavyweight. The UFC's weight classes are all
1:51:43
fucked up. I know, it's stupid. They have the same
1:51:46
names but different weight classes. So, like, welterweight is 170
1:51:49
in the UFC. Yeah, look at him. So that's the
1:51:52
difference between how he was when he was juicing versus
1:51:55
how he was. You see the difference?
1:51:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:51:58
Speaker 2: It's crazy, right? Isn't it crazy? It's crazy.
1:52:02
Speaker 1: Damn.
1:52:02
Speaker 2: So the guy on the right was just, he had
1:52:04
to move more. He was still very skillful. He's a
1:52:07
very skillful kickboxer. Very skillful MMA fighter. But, I mean,
1:52:12
when that guy was fully jacked up and juiced, man,
1:52:16
he was almost unstoppable.
1:52:17
Speaker 1: See, that's why.
1:52:20
Man, that's why I don't like that. Like, that's my thing.
1:52:24
I do not want to get in a ring with
1:52:25
somebody that's cheating.
1:52:27
Speaker 2: Right.
1:52:29
Speaker 1: But I'm so good to where it's like, even if
1:52:31
you are cheating, you ain't going to hit me. You
1:52:37
won't be punching on me.
1:52:37
Speaker 2: But imagine if you're fighting a guy that's at your level,
1:52:41
but he's cheating. Yeah. That's the problem. Yeah. That's the problem.
1:52:45
Right now, there's not really anybody in your division that's
1:52:47
at that level that's, like, really compelling. I mean, other
1:52:50
than at 135 tank. But imagine if there's someone that's
1:52:55
at your level and you're pretty sure they're cheating. That's
1:52:57
got to fuck with your head.
1:52:59
Speaker 1: Honestly, I feel like there's some competitive guys at these
1:53:03
weight classes. They just not known.
1:53:05
Speaker 2: Right.
1:53:06
Speaker 1: But there's some names that's like, okay, like. Even Lamont Roach.
1:53:10
Speaker 2: Lamont Roach is very good. That fight with Gervonta was
1:53:14
crazy because that was a knockdown. That's a fucking knockdown.
1:53:18
He won.
1:53:18
Speaker 1: He won for sure.
1:53:20
Speaker 2: The fact that he took a knee and the referee
1:53:22
didn't call it a knockdown, that's crazy.
1:53:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, he won. But to say, like, I'm just saying
1:53:28
it is guys out there for me.
1:53:30
Speaker 2: Lamont is a great example.
1:53:31
Speaker 1: Big fights and competitive fights. I don't spar with Lamont,
1:53:35
so I know Lamont is a fighter.
1:53:36
Speaker 2: He's legit. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people did
1:53:39
not know about him before that fight, but after that fight,
1:53:42
I mean, look, that sucks, man, because that goes down
1:53:45
on his record as a loss. Was it a draw? Draw.
1:53:48
That's right. It was a draw. And he won the fight?
1:53:51
Speaker 1: He clearly won.
1:53:52
Speaker 2: He won the fight? Yeah. I thought he won the
1:53:54
fight anyway.
1:53:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did, too.
1:53:56
Speaker 2: I did, too. But the knockdown, like, you can't say
1:53:59
I got shit in my hair and it got in
1:54:00
my eyes and that's why I went down. That's crazy.
1:54:03
Speaker 1: That was very amateurish.
1:54:05
Speaker 2: It was weird, right?
1:54:05
Speaker 1: It was amateurish.
1:54:07
Speaker 2: I didn't... It was weird.
1:54:08
Speaker 1: I never saw nothing like that.
1:54:10
Speaker 2: Well, it's like Gervonta just looked like his head wasn't
1:54:13
totally there in that fight.
1:54:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe.
1:54:17
Speaker 2: So do you require VADA testing for all your fights?
1:54:20
Every fight. And do you have that ability to do that?
1:54:22
Speaker 1: Yes.
1:54:22
Speaker 2: So in negotiations, you make sure that everybody's getting tested.
1:54:26
Speaker 1: I don't play when they come down.
1:54:27
Speaker 2: Good for you.
1:54:27
Speaker 1: I do not play that.
1:54:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, good for you, man. Good for you. I mean,
1:54:32
we're very fortunate that we have these. testing bodies like
1:54:36
that now available because again like if they had who
1:54:40
knows what a lot of fighters legacies would be if
1:54:43
they were testing them at every step along the way
1:54:45
yeah they'd get caught they'd get caught yeah so with
1:54:49
MMA it was the wild west for a long time
1:54:52
for a long time it was the wild wild west
1:54:55
everybody was doing all kinds of shit I.
1:54:57
Speaker 1: Wouldn't be able to do that like I would not
1:54:59
be able to get in the ring lose to somebody
1:55:02
and then know they cheated me Right. Because I don't
1:55:06
know how I will react to that. That will be
1:55:09
one of the moments I may crash out, and I
1:55:11
don't do crash out things. So I might crash out
1:55:14
about like, ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.
1:55:18
Speaker 2: Right.
1:55:18
Speaker 1: Ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.
1:55:20
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is with combat sports versus every other
1:55:24
sport is your goal is to hurt your opponent. And
1:55:27
if there's a thing you're doing that's cheating that helps
1:55:30
you hurt your opponent, That is a different kind of cheating. Yeah.
1:55:33
It's not like cheating in baseball. Like, who gives a
1:55:36
fuck if you hit another home run? I think they
1:55:37
should all cheat in baseball. I think they should all
1:55:40
get on steroids. Make it more exciting. Like, because the
1:55:43
only thing that's exciting about baseball is home runs. Right? Yeah,
1:55:46
I get you. That's the number one thing. If you
1:55:48
got a way that you guys can hit more home runs,
1:55:52
fucking give it to them. Will you?
1:55:54
Speaker 1: It's stupid, but it's getting better.
1:55:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like harmless.
1:55:55
Speaker 1: Like, it's not really going to hurt nobody.
1:55:58
Speaker 2: Exactly.
1:55:58
Speaker 1: So I get it.
1:55:59
Speaker 2: Exactly. But.
1:56:00
Speaker 1: And boxing is like.
1:56:01
Speaker 2: It's life or death.
1:56:02
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:56:02
Speaker 2: Boxing is real life or death.
1:56:04
Speaker 1: That's why I don't know how I would react. Anybody
1:56:08
watching this, please don't cheat me. I am not the
1:56:10
guy to be cheated. So just understand that.
1:56:14
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, whenever people are looking for shortcuts and
1:56:17
people want to win, there's always going to be someone
1:56:20
that's willing to do something that they're not supposed to
1:56:22
be doing.
1:56:24
Speaker 1: That ain't it, though. Like you said, it's life or death.
1:56:27
Speaker 2: Life or death.
1:56:28
Speaker 1: So you could... cheat and hit somebody with the wrong
1:56:31
shot and then they dead and what's the guy that
1:56:34
killed somebody uh sabrio matias right um killed the dude
1:56:39
and now he just got popped for cheating so it's like.
1:56:41
Speaker 2: Oh he did yeah i didn't know that what did
1:56:43
he get popped for i don't even know he lost
1:56:46
recently right he.
1:56:47
Speaker 1: Lost right before the loss they had popped him for
1:56:49
cheating i want to say dalton.
1:56:52
Speaker 2: Smith So he got popped and then he lost the
1:56:58
next fight?
1:56:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, they let him fight. Wow. Yep. But it's like.
1:57:03
Speaker 2: I wonder if he's the same guy after he got popped.
1:57:06
Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking too. I don't know either, but.
1:57:09
Speaker 2: Because he was killing everybody. Yeah, he actually... He only
1:57:12
killed one guy.
1:57:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he actually killed somebody. But if I'm the
1:57:15
family of somebody that he killed and now he comes
1:57:18
out as cheating, I will be like, hold up now, bro.
1:57:21
Speaker 2: Can you see what Matias got popped for? Um, that's crazy.
1:57:26
He was, who was the dude who just beat him?
1:57:29
Dude just stopped him. Yes. Yeah. That was a crazy fight.
1:57:33
Speaker 1: That was crazy. They were going to war.
1:57:35
Speaker 2: Ooh, they went to war. I mean, that was not
1:57:37
an easy fight for him. And Matias is a dangerous dude, man.
1:57:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a great performance by Darcy Smith, though.
1:57:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:57:44
Speaker 1: People don't know back in the day when I was
1:57:46
in the junior worlds, me and him went to the
1:57:49
worlds together.
1:57:50
Speaker 2: So, Osterine. Damn. Everybody's on Osterine. What is it about?
1:57:54
I don't even know much about Osterine. What does Osterine do, Jamie?
1:57:57
Let's find out what it does. Osterine, selective androgen receptor
1:58:05
modulator designed to treat muscle wasting conditions and osteoporosis by
1:58:09
promoting muscle growth and bone density without the severe side
1:58:14
effects of anabolic steroids. Popular amongst bodybuilders for enhancing muscle
1:58:18
mass and fat loss. It's not approved for human consumption
1:58:22
by the FDA, banned by WADA, and linked to side
1:58:26
effects like liver toxicity and testosterone suppression, and cardiovascular risks.
1:58:32
So it helps you keep muscle and bone density. Yeah. Well,
1:58:37
it makes sense that that would be a good supplement
1:58:41
for boxers. What are you showing me here? Before or after?
1:58:46
Look at that guy. The one you got your link on? Jesus.
1:58:50
He looks like he's faking it in the third picture.
1:58:52
I was going to do this. But, I mean, you're
1:58:58
always going to have certain people that are going to cheat.
1:59:03
I hate it. Are there any, like, world title fights
1:59:05
that take place that don't have VADA testing?
1:59:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is. I think people fight without it,
1:59:12
but I don't play that.
1:59:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:59:15
Speaker 1: I don't play that. I be thinking, man, I just
1:59:17
started to do it in the gym that was, like,
1:59:20
not good one time. Like, he's not good at all.
1:59:24
But I'm sparring him. I'm like, man, this dude punch
1:59:26
harder than everybody I ever been in the ring with.
1:59:29
And I wonder, like, dude, did that dude, do he
1:59:31
be cheating?
1:59:33
Speaker 2: Well, some dudes just have natural God-given power, too.
1:59:36
Speaker 1: But when you, like, fat, not kind of, like, you
1:59:39
out of shape, then you just punch super hard and
1:59:42
it's slow, but it's like, boom, boom. I be thinking
1:59:47
people be G.
1:59:48
Speaker 2: They might be, but they might just have the gift.
1:59:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
1:59:52
Speaker 2: The thing about boxing is punching power, you can enhance
1:59:56
your punching power, but that crazy punching power, that's a gift.
1:59:59
You're born with it. Yeah, you're born with it. Like
2:00:01
Ernie Shavers type punching power or Deontay. Wilder. Wilder. The
2:00:06
greatest example ever.
2:00:08
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
2:00:09
Speaker 2: One shot with Teddy Atlas is the best example. He
2:00:12
called it the eraser. All the mistakes you made, it
2:00:15
doesn't matter.
2:00:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I sit there and watch Wilder, and I'm like, dog,
2:00:19
it's some fights that I see him not punch at
2:00:22
all until the shot is there.
2:00:24
Speaker 2: Right.
2:00:25
Speaker 1: And when the shot is there, he got you, it's over.
2:00:28
Speaker 2: It's crazy how hard he hits.
2:00:30
Speaker 1: It's over.
2:00:30
Speaker 2: I mean, he might be the greatest one-punch knockout artist
2:00:33
in the history of the heavyweight division.
2:00:34
Speaker 1: I think he is. I think he's, like, no question. Like,
2:00:36
he's probably the hardest puncher that ever walks.
2:00:40
Speaker 2: He's up there. I mean, Ernie Shavers back in the day.
2:00:44
Speaker 1: Punch harder than Wilder.
2:00:46
Speaker 2: They all said Ernie Shavers was the, like, even Ali said,
2:00:49
nobody hit harder than Ernie Shavers.
2:00:50
Speaker 1: Wilder.
2:00:51
Speaker 2: I know. I know. And you think about Wilder, too,
2:00:54
is he's not big. He only weighed 209 when he
2:00:57
fought Tyson Fury the first time.
2:00:59
Speaker 1: That right here, he got.
2:01:00
Speaker 2: Crazy.
2:01:01
Speaker 1: I don't think nobody could take it.
2:01:03
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
2:01:03
Speaker 1: I don't think nobody could take it. I'd like a lot.
2:01:06
I saw Fury take it, but.
2:01:07
Speaker 2: You know what he's like?
2:01:08
Speaker 1: His size helps him.
2:01:09
Speaker 2: He's like a giant Tommy Hearns. Yeah. That's what it's like.
2:01:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:01:12
Speaker 2: Long, leverage, just torque. The width of the shoulders, the
2:01:16
snap of the punch, just blap.
2:01:19
Speaker 1: I wish he retired, though. I feel like he, what
2:01:23
else is there to do? Like, you done did a
2:01:25
lot in this sport. You done made a lot of money.
2:01:27
I just wish, like, certain guys just like, okay.
2:01:30
Speaker 2: I know. I know.
2:01:32
Speaker 1: What am I doing this for now?
2:01:33
Speaker 2: Well, he's going to fight Derek Jussara, which is interesting
2:01:36
because they're both the same age. They both have 50 fights.
2:01:40
They're both kind of in the same, but, you know.
2:01:43
Speaker 1: I like Derek Chisler. He's a cool dude, too.
2:01:46
Speaker 2: He seems cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a great
2:01:48
time for boxing. There's a lot of talent, a lot
2:01:50
of very, very compelling matchups. Are they going to do
2:01:54
a B-Vol, a better B of rebatch? Are they going
2:01:57
to do a trilogy?
2:01:58
Speaker 1: I don't want to see that. I want to see
2:01:59
B-Vol versus Benavidez.
2:02:02
Speaker 2: Ooh. Yeah.
2:02:02
Speaker 1: That's the fight.
2:02:04
Speaker 2: Well, the fight was Benavidez versus Canelo. That never could
2:02:08
get made for some reason.
2:02:10
Speaker 1: I mean, that dude is just too big for Canelo, though. Like,
2:02:13
I see both sides. Like, I love Benavidez, and I'm
2:02:18
a fan of him. So I see the side of, like,
2:02:22
fight me, bro. You the guy. I'm the guy.
2:02:25
Speaker 2: We number one. Number one.
2:02:26
Speaker 1: Let's fight. But then I see Canelo's side. He's like, man,
2:02:29
this dude is 200 pounds on the regular.
2:02:33
Speaker 2: Right.
2:02:33
Speaker 1: And I'm nowhere near that weight. So it's like. Why
2:02:37
would I fight this guy? Like, I don't think it's fair. Like,
2:02:40
that's how he feel himself.
2:02:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand it. But Canelo went up and fought B-Ball.
2:02:46
Speaker 1: But he knew. He didn't think B-Ball was going to
2:02:51
beat him.
2:02:51
Speaker 2: You don't think so?
2:02:52
Speaker 1: Nah. He didn't think. He thought he was going to
2:02:54
beat B-Ball.
2:02:55
Speaker 2: After B-Ball beat him, you think that killed the chances
2:02:57
of a Benavidez fight?
2:02:58
Speaker 1: Yes, he knew it was time. I cannot fight these
2:03:01
guys that are super big.
2:03:03
Speaker 2: I love watching Benavidez fight. Yeah, he's the truth. He's
2:03:06
a mauler. He's a killer. He is a fucking killer.
2:03:08
Speaker 1: He did something that helped my hands. He told me
2:03:10
to put on the gloves that I be wearing on
2:03:11
fight night, and they helped my hands, so I appreciate him, too.
2:03:15
Speaker 2: Do you do anything to strengthen your hands?
2:03:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:03:17
Speaker 2: Do you do exercises?
2:03:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't tell everybody. I can't tell you that
2:03:23
right now.
2:03:24
Speaker 2: All right. Tell me later.
2:03:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you later.
2:03:26
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of different things people do, like buckets
2:03:29
of rice is a big one.
2:03:31
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, for sure.
2:03:31
Speaker 2: I do that, too. Yeah, moving your hands around in buckets.
2:03:34
What is it? Benavidez targets to beat you, Bivol. Oh,
2:03:38
there we go.
2:03:38
Speaker 1: That's the fight.
2:03:39
Speaker 2: That's the fight.
2:03:40
Speaker 1: That's the best versus the best. I think that's one
2:03:42
of the best fights to make in the sport of boxing.
2:03:44
Speaker 2: Well, he's fighting Ramirez at cruiserweight, right? Yeah. And then
2:03:47
he's going to drop back down to light heavyweight and
2:03:49
fight Bivol. I like that. Yeah. Want to make the
2:03:53
biggest and the best fights happening. Fuck yeah.
2:03:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the best fights in the sport.
2:03:58
Speaker 2: Arthur better be a... But better be of his, like,
2:04:00
40 now.
2:04:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:04:01
Speaker 2: He's a truth, though, too. Oh, he's a truth. He
2:04:03
was a crusher forever.
2:04:04
Speaker 1: He punched too hard.
2:04:07
Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
2:04:08
Speaker 1: He had another one.
2:04:09
Speaker 2: He just bangs dudes out. He's got a crazy style. Yeah.
2:04:13
Speaker 1: I mean.
2:04:14
Speaker 2: I mean, it's funny when people sparred him, they have
2:04:16
these stories.
2:04:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:04:18
Speaker 2: Like, he hits you, and you're like, what just happened?
2:04:20
Speaker 1: Yeah. I could see it, though. When I watched him
2:04:22
fight Bavar, I'm front row.
2:04:25
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
2:04:25
Speaker 1: And, like, Bavar liked to catch shots on his glove. And, like,
2:04:29
I could see, like, how hard he was punching his glove. Like,
2:04:32
I'm like, damn. I don't know how Bavar is taking that.
2:04:36
Speaker 2: I know, and he was 39 back then. Yeah. That's
2:04:39
what's crazy. It's like we missed his prime. Yeah. Unfortunately.
2:04:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, we seen one fight where he fought the overseas guy,
2:04:49
Gavard something, and he beat him up.
2:04:52
Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
2:04:54
Speaker 1: He beat him up.
2:04:55
Speaker 2: Well, he was at one point in time, wasn't he
2:04:57
like 39-0 with 39 knockouts? Yes. Which is just nuts. Yeah.
2:05:02
At that level, that is just nuts.
2:05:04
Speaker 1: Punching too hard.
2:05:04
Speaker 2: It's just nuts that he stopped everybody.
2:05:07
Speaker 1: And it looks natural, too. It don't look like he's
2:05:09
on like... No, it looks natural. It looks very natural.
2:05:13
Speaker 2: But didn't he get in trouble, caught with something?
2:05:15
Speaker 1: He got caught with something?
2:05:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, put that better be if.
2:05:19
Speaker 1: Not better be if, man.
2:05:22
Speaker 2: I feel like I might be wrong, but I feel
2:05:27
like maybe there was a tainted supplement.
2:05:31
Speaker 1: Man, come on, not better be.
2:05:34
Speaker 2: I think so. I might be wrong. If I'm wrong,
2:05:38
I apologize.
2:05:38
Speaker 1: You've got to be wrong for better me. This was 2024?
2:05:42
Speaker 2: Atypical. Yeah, this is what it was. Atypical drug test result.
2:05:48
Adverse findings may have threatened. Now, what does that mean?
2:05:51
What does it say? Look at Conor McGregor. Look at
2:05:53
Conor McGregor screaming and yelling. What does it say? What
2:05:57
did he get caught with? Um... Atypical finding is not
2:06:01
a violation. Requires more testing. Better be have underwent those
2:06:04
examinations at VADA request. VADA reported negative results from the
2:06:08
follow-up test. So what was the positive test? Hmm. What
2:06:14
does that mean? Yeah, what do that mean? Oh, here
2:06:17
it goes. He received atypical findings for human growth hormone
2:06:22
and 5D androstanediol. Both occur naturally in the body. When
2:06:28
an atypical finding is received, further testing is required to
2:06:31
determine if an athlete naturally produces the substance in his
2:06:36
or her body at a greater level than the average
2:06:39
or elevated levels, which were signs of anti-doping. Interesting. Okay.
2:06:43
So it could just be that he just has naturally
2:06:46
high levels of HGH and this 5D androstenediol. So that
2:06:55
might be what it is. Or could be some sneaky shit.
2:07:00
You know? I mean, did you ever see the documentary Icarus?
2:07:08
There's a great documentary about the drug scandal in the
2:07:14
Olympics in Russia. And so this was, what was this, 2016?
2:07:20
Which was it, Jamie?
2:07:22
Speaker 1: Was that the Olympics I was at? Yeah. I was there.
2:07:25
And they banned the whole Russian team?
2:07:28
Speaker 2: Exactly.
2:07:28
Speaker 1: I thought that was 2020, though.
2:07:30
Speaker 2: They banned the Russian team in the follow-up Olympics, I believe.
2:07:33
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, 2020, yeah.
2:07:34
Speaker 2: Because of the 2016. So this guy, Brian Fogle, did
2:07:37
this documentary. It's a crazy documentary. And the documentary was
2:07:40
not supposed to be. 2014 Winter Olympics. 2014 Winter Olympics.
2:07:44
So what happened was Brian Fogle was doing a documentary.
2:07:49
So he's a cyclist and a documentary guy. And so
2:07:53
he said, I want to do a cycling event, a race,
2:07:57
completely natural. And then... I want to do it on
2:08:01
steroids and I want to document it all. And then,
2:08:03
you know, make this documentary on what is the difference
2:08:06
and just show it. Because cycling is a very dirty sport.
2:08:10
Like Tour de France. Those guys, they put engines in
2:08:13
their fucking bike to make it easier to pedal. They
2:08:16
do a lot of crazy shit. Blood doping. So he
2:08:19
does this naturally. And then he gets this guy. What
2:08:24
was his name again? Grigory Rechenkov. Who was the head
2:08:31
of the Russian anti-doping federation. But it was really a
2:08:35
doping federation. So what they were doing at the time was...
2:08:41
He starts working with this guy. This guy's telling him
2:08:44
what steroids to take and how to get better. At
2:08:47
the same time, the Russians get caught while he's filming
2:08:51
all this. And that guy has to leave the country.
2:08:53
And that guy spills the beans. And he tells them
2:08:55
exactly what they did. And what they did was they
2:08:58
took the clean urine. They made a hole in the wall.
2:09:00
So the place where they stored all the urine, they
2:09:03
made a hole in the wall where they could swap
2:09:05
out the Russian urine and swap it in for good urine.
2:09:10
And they found these micro abrasions on these supposedly unopenable jars.
2:09:16
And so when they looked at it with a microscope,
2:09:18
they said they figured out a way to open these jars.
2:09:22
So they would pass it through the hole in the wall,
2:09:25
open the jar, empty it out, put in clean piss,
2:09:29
and give it back to them. So essentially the entire
2:09:32
team was doped up. Yeah.
2:09:34
Speaker 1: So basically that's why they say– In the Olympics, they
2:09:38
wasn't sure if Russia was going to be able to compete, right?
2:09:40
Speaker 2: Exactly. And so in Brazil, the follow-up Olympics, the next Olympics,
2:09:44
the entire team couldn't compete.
2:09:47
Speaker 1: The cycling team?
2:09:49
Speaker 2: No, the entire Russian team. So the cycling thing was
2:09:53
just this guy that was doing this documentary, and he
2:09:55
was using the head of the Russian anti-doping agency to
2:09:58
help him do it, like openly. So it was just
2:10:01
for a documentary. It wasn't like trying to win a
2:10:03
race and cheat. He was like saying, let's see what
2:10:07
you would give me and how much better my performance
2:10:09
would be. So in the middle of doing all this,
2:10:11
this scandal gets exposed. And this guy who he's using
2:10:16
is at the head of the scandal. And then this
2:10:18
guy tells him everything. And it's nuts.
2:10:20
Speaker 1: Russia did compete in the Olympics, though.
2:10:23
Speaker 2: They did compete in 2016. They must have didn't compete
2:10:27
in 2020 then. Well, it was one of the— I think
2:10:30
they allowed individual athletes to compete, whatever the subsequent Olympics was,
2:10:35
but they didn't allow them to represent Russia.
2:10:38
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, because there was a guy from Russia in
2:10:41
my weight class.
2:10:42
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah?
2:10:43
Speaker 1: In the 2016 Olympics. He definitely was kind of.
2:10:46
Speaker 2: Strong, too. Yeah. Well, the Russians, I mean, they were
2:10:52
the beginning of all this stuff, like the Eastern European
2:10:55
women weightlifting.
2:10:57
Speaker 1: So they came up with the cheats.
2:10:59
Speaker 2: Well, they figured it out. They figured it out early on.
2:11:02
They've been doing it a long-ass time.
2:11:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:11:05
Speaker 2: So who knows with Better Be Ev or any of
2:11:10
these guys. You've got to always assume that without something
2:11:14
like VADA or Drug Free Sport or USADA, there's always
2:11:19
going to be someone who's trying to figure out a
2:11:21
way to get a competitive advantage.
2:11:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate it.
2:11:25
Speaker 2: It's gross.
2:11:25
Speaker 1: I hate it. It comes with it, though.
2:11:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, it comes with it. It is what it is. So,
2:11:31
anything else you want to cover before we wrap this up?
2:11:35
Speaker 1: Nah, I ain't got nothing else.
2:11:36
Speaker 2: I think we're good. Listen, man, congratulations on everything. It's
2:11:39
been beautiful to watch you fight. I'm a giant fan.
2:11:41
Thank you. And I'm happy to see after the Lopez fight,
2:11:45
you get all the respect and the credit that you
2:11:46
deserve and And I can't wait to see what happens next.
2:11:49
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate you. And I appreciate you giving
2:11:52
me the opportunity to come on the podcast.
2:11:56
Speaker 2: One of the best podcasts in the world. I appreciate you.
2:12:00
Thank you very much. My honor. All right. Bye.