Latest / Pastor John Piper's answers / Does God Condemn Nations Today?

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Does God Condemn Nations Today? · Pastor John Piper's answers

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  Speaker 1: Well, we've looked at national sins in the past, particularly
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  Speaker 1: over the racial sins of our American forefathers, in the
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  Speaker 1: systematic enslavement of Africans and in the forced removal of
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  Speaker 1: Native Indians from the land. Sobering history here, and you
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  Speaker 1: can see what we talked about in the past in
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  Speaker 1: the EPJ book on page fifty six. There are some
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  Speaker 1: uncomfortable things in America's past that we need to face
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  Speaker 1: and deal with. It's hard to face them, honestly. So
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  Speaker 1: while we don't often talk about national sins, we do today.
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  Speaker 1: In a really interesting question from a listener named Brian
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  Speaker 1: in Chicago, in a question built off two statements in
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  Speaker 1: the Gospel of Luke in our recent Bible reading that
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  Speaker 1: we've seen. Here's what Brian wrote, quote Pastor John, Hello,
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  Speaker 1: and thank you for this podcast. I've been thinking a
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  Speaker 1: lot about the judgment Jesus pronounces on the cities of
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  Speaker 1: a Korzon, Mesaeta, and Capernaum in Luke ten, verses thirteen
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  Speaker 1: to sixteen, as well as his declaration of woe upon
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  Speaker 1: an entire generation in Luke eleven fifty one. My question
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  Speaker 1: is what actually happens to these groups of people and
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  Speaker 1: the individuals within them. When Jesus condemns a city or
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  Speaker 1: a generation, does this kind of judgment mean that every
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  Speaker 1: person within that group is judged the same way? Were
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  Speaker 1: there faithful believers in those cities who were spared or
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  Speaker 1: does the judgment apply corporately even to those who might
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  Speaker 1: have personally repented. It's hard for me to fully grasp
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  Speaker 1: the weight of this, and I'm struggling to understand whether
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  Speaker 1: these judgments were referring to an earthly destruction such as
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  Speaker 1: the fall of Jerusalem in eighty seventy, or if they
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  Speaker 1: point to an eternal judgment, meaning these people would face
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  Speaker 1: condemnation after death. How do we understand collective pronouncements of
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  Speaker 1: judgment like this in light of individual accountability before God?
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  Speaker 1: Does God judge people corporately or individually? And how does
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  Speaker 1: that work? Lastly, I want to know how to understand
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  Speaker 1: this in relation to today. How should it shape the
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  Speaker 1: way we think about God's judgment, whether over nations, cities, communities,
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  Speaker 1: even over our own time, our own general I want
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  Speaker 1: to grasp the weight of this sobering reality.
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  Speaker 2: Well, let's start by laying down the pervasive New Testament
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  Speaker 2: reality of radical individual responsibility responsibility before God for salvation
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  Speaker 2: and personal holiness and final judgment. There is such a
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  Speaker 2: thing as corporate reality. I'm not denying that the church
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  Speaker 2: is a corporate reality. It's a bride, it's a body
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  Speaker 2: of Christ. I get that. I love that. I don't
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  Speaker 2: want to minimize that. But pervasively in the New Testament,
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  Speaker 2: God deals with individuals for salvation and whether they are
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  Speaker 2: part of corporate realities, for holiness, for final judgment. So
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  Speaker 2: just do a word search, is what I did anyway
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  Speaker 2: on the singular Greek word pass every. You can do
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  Speaker 2: it in English. Every Every is a singular word and
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  Speaker 2: it means each person. And what you find are dozens
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  Speaker 2: of statements like God will repay everyone, everyone who hears,
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  Speaker 2: everyone who has left home, everyone who is trained like
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  Speaker 2: a scribe, everyone who asks, everyone who acknowledges Christ, everyone
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  Speaker 2: who exalts himself, everyone who is born again, and on
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  Speaker 2: and on and on. These are all individual everyone, every
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  Speaker 2: single person matters and has dealt with by God for salvation,
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  Speaker 2: foreholding this for eternal judgment. If you confess with your
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  Speaker 2: mouth singular one mouth, one head, that Jesus is Lord,
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  Speaker 2: and believe in your heart singular one heart to hearts,
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  Speaker 2: not a corporate heart. Believe in your heart that God
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  Speaker 2: raised him from the dead, you singular, you will be saved.
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  Speaker 2: God deals with individuals in the New Testament when it
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  Speaker 2: comes to salvation and their own personal lives of holiness
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  Speaker 2: and their final judgment. Now, the question is, how does
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  Speaker 2: this pervasive reality of individual salvation relate to corporate judgment
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  Speaker 2: when God says that a whole city or nation will
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  Speaker 2: be judged. Now, the first part of the answer is
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  Speaker 2: that statements about corporate judgment can be judgments of devastation
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  Speaker 2: in this world, like Brian already said, or at the
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  Speaker 2: end of the world in a day of eternal judgment.
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  Speaker 2: For example, Jesus clearly predicted the destruction of Jerusalem, which
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  Speaker 2: took place forty years after he had gone back to heaven.
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  Speaker 2: It was in history, it wasn't at the end of time.
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  Speaker 2: Luke nineteen, when he drew near and saw the city,
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  Speaker 2: he wept over it, saying, would that you had known
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  Speaker 2: the things that make for peace, For the days will
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  Speaker 2: come upon you when your enemies will set up barricades
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  Speaker 2: against you and surround you and hem you in on
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  Speaker 2: every side. Because you did not know the time of
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  Speaker 2: your visitation that's Jerusalem predicted, happened forty years after that,
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  Speaker 2: and that's historical. So that's an example of a divine
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  Speaker 2: judgment in this world before the end comes. But in
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  Speaker 2: Matthew eleven, when Jesus pronounced judgment upon the cities of
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  Speaker 2: Corasine and Besseeda, he said it will be more bearable
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  Speaker 2: on the day of judgment entire for you. That's an
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  Speaker 2: example of final judgment at the end of history, that
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  Speaker 2: the day of judgment that results in damnation or salvation. So, now,
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  Speaker 2: what about individual believers in Christ who are in Jerusalem
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  Speaker 2: as judgment comes, or who are in Corazine and Besseta
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  Speaker 2: when they are told they're going to perish at the
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  Speaker 2: last day. And there are three biblical answers at least
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  Speaker 2: to this question of how individual believers in cities or
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  Speaker 2: nations that are to be judged in this world or
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  Speaker 2: at the end. There's three biblical answers to how they
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  Speaker 2: relate to that situation. Number One, every individual who believes
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  Speaker 2: in his heart on the Lord Jesus for salvation will
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  Speaker 2: never be damned ever, doesn't matter what group he's in,
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  Speaker 2: or what city he's in, or what nation he's in.
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  Speaker 2: He will never come in to judgment. He has passed
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  Speaker 2: from death to life. He may live in corasine or
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  Speaker 2: best saida, but he's not of corazine, to use the
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  Speaker 2: language of Jesus. He's not of corazine or Bethseta. He's
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  Speaker 2: not counted as part of that corporate group that perishes,
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  Speaker 2: because he has individually been saved by God already. Second answer,
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  Speaker 2: genuine believers may indeed endure the destruction of their property,
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  Speaker 2: even that lose their lives in God's historical judgment on
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  Speaker 2: a city or a nation, they will not experience that
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  Speaker 2: judgment as punishment, but as purifying. God's design is not
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  Speaker 2: the same when his judgment falls on his enemy as
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  Speaker 2: when his judgment falls on his child. They may die.
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  Speaker 2: That the child may die. The same disease that kills
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  Speaker 2: the unbeliever by way of judgment may kill the child.
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  Speaker 2: Now here's the reason I say that. In one Peter
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  Speaker 2: chapter four, it says this beloved, that's Christians, do not
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  Speaker 2: be surprised at the fiery trial that comes upon you
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  Speaker 2: to test you as though something strange were happening to you.
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  Speaker 2: For it is time for judgment to begin with the
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  Speaker 2: household of God. There it is, and if it begins
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  Speaker 2: with us, what will be the outcome for those who
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  Speaker 2: do not obey the gospel. So from that and other teachings,
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  Speaker 2: I draw the conclusion God's judgment may begin with the
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  Speaker 2: household of God, and if it does, Peter says in
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  Speaker 2: a verse earlier, the spirit of glory and of God
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  Speaker 2: rests on you. Even as you're enduring this hard hand
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  Speaker 2: of God, and you may die under it, the spirit
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  Speaker 2: of glory and of God rests on you. Don't view
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  Speaker 2: this as punishment. That would be a big mistake. Christ
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  Speaker 2: has endured our punishment. If we are Christians, that's past.
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  Speaker 2: We're never going to be punished for the sins that
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  Speaker 2: Jesus has covered. This is God's purifying fire. Trust him
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  Speaker 2: and your faith will come through as gold and redown
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  Speaker 2: is what Peter says in the first chapter, redown to
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  Speaker 2: the praise and glory and honor at the revelation of
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  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. So that's the second way that individuals relate
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  Speaker 2: to corporate judgment. We may go through it and even die,
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  Speaker 2: but God designs for us not punishment but puref caation
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  Speaker 2: and final reward. And the third way individual Christians relate
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  Speaker 2: to corporate punishment of cities or nations is that God
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  Speaker 2: may make a way of escape. For example, Jesus predicted
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  Speaker 2: the destruction of Jerusalem, and he told his followers how
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  Speaker 2: to get out. He said in Luke twenty one, when
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  Speaker 2: you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its
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  Speaker 2: desolation has come near. Then let those who are in
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  Speaker 2: judeea flee to the mountains, and let those who are
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  Speaker 2: out inside the city depart, and let those who are
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  Speaker 2: out in the country not enter it. For these are
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  Speaker 2: days of vengeance to fulfill what is written. So God
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  Speaker 2: has plans for his people, often to escape the very
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  Speaker 2: situations where he is bringing judgment. So, in summary, if
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  Speaker 2: God pronounces final judgment on a city or a nation
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  Speaker 2: and destines them for fire, judgment and destruction, no Christian
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  Speaker 2: who lives among them will share that destiny. They are
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  Speaker 2: justified and will never be condemned. They will enter eternal life. Second,
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  Speaker 2: if God pronounces historical judgment on a city such that
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  Speaker 2: the say the black plague or Ebola or COVID, is
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  Speaker 2: going to wipe out three fourths of the population for
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  Speaker 2: the sins of the city or the nation, many Christians
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  Speaker 2: may perish of that disease. Indeed, we have seen this
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  Speaker 2: in history. Sacrificial Christians stay in the dangerous places and
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  Speaker 2: care for the dying, and catch the disease and die themselves.
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  Speaker 2: They're not being punished. And third, God may warn his
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  Speaker 2: people to flee from a particular city because a historical
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  Speaker 2: judgment is about to befall them. It's like Lott's family
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  Speaker 2: was saved. All three of those situations are true today,
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  Speaker 2: and we need to saturate our minds with God's word,
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  Speaker 2: the Bible so that we are deserning when we seek
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  Speaker 2: to read the signs of the times.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good, hopeful word. Pastor John, thank you
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  Speaker 1: and thanks for joining us today. If you, like Brian today,
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  Speaker 1: have a great question to ask Pastor John, find a
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  Speaker 1: link to email us at Askpastor John dot com. Well,
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  Speaker 1: we don't often talk about national sins like we did today,
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  Speaker 1: but we do often talk about money and wealth because
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  Speaker 1: you send us a lot of great questions here and
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  Speaker 1: we address it a lot. Because there's an ever present
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  Speaker 1: danger in thinking that Jesus is the means to getting
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  Speaker 1: wealth in this life, the false gospel of the prosperity gospel,
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  Speaker 1: and it is alive and well today, so people come
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  Speaker 1: to Christ for all the wrong reasons, and there are
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  Speaker 1: many wrong reasons to come to Christ. As we're going
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  Speaker 1: to see next time. I'm Tony Rank. Will see you
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  Speaker 1: on Monday.