Latest / Bourbon & Rum / Borders, Beliefs, and the Burden of History

Transcript

Borders, Beliefs, and the Burden of History · Bourbon & Rum

0:08
Welcome to another episode of Bourbon and Rum.
0:11
This is a podcast of two brothers from opposite ends of
0:15
the spectrum. My name's Kent, I'm a rum
0:22
drinker, and I'm from the left side of the aisle.
0:24
And I'm Kyle. I, like bourbon, tend to be a
0:26
little more conservative. Join us as we explore this
0:32
experiment. Can two brothers from different
0:35
sides of the political spectrum have a civil conversation and
0:39
celebrate our differences? What are you drinking?
0:54
Well, I'm in a hotel a little limited on the bourbon
0:57
selection. So I just went through the
0:59
standard Woodford Reserve, which I don't even know if I've ever
1:04
drank it on the podcast, but it used to always be my my go to.
1:07
I mean, it's, it's been around for a long time and it's a, a
1:11
good consistent poor. Most hotels or, or someplace
1:14
will have it. So yeah.
1:16
Wouldn't you say that's probably the most common premium brand
1:20
that you see places? I would think so, yeah.
1:24
What are you drinking on? Well, I I don't know if I drink
1:28
this one on here before. It's a Santa Teresa Venezuelan
1:33
rum. You sound very cultured when you
1:36
say it that way. Well, you know, I mean, you
1:39
know, trying to be the citizen of the world that drinking $30
1:45
Venezuelan rum makes you. But this is it's a solera.
1:50
Oh, this is the one. I said it before.
1:51
They call it triple age and I don't know what what that means
1:55
but. So that's Venezuelan.
1:57
I bought a bottle of that diplomatico and it's Venezuelan.
2:02
How are we getting stuff from Venezuela?
2:04
I thought they were embargoes and stuff on Venezuela.
2:06
Oh, I don't know. Might be that it was here.
2:08
It might be stuff on the shelves from a while ago too.
2:11
I don't know. I like Venezuelan.
2:14
I like that Diplomatico. That's that's good stuff.
2:17
Well, I interrupted you. What?
2:18
Tell me about this stuff. How do you like it?
2:20
Oh, yeah, it's, it's good. It's just really, it's really
2:23
nice that the smoothness of these rums and I think that they
2:27
do stuff with it. I think your neighbor one time
2:30
told me that some of these add sugar after the fact that I'm
2:34
sure they do that level stuff out.
2:36
But man, for not a lot of money you can get a really nice
2:39
sipper. Yeah, no, I mean, and there's so
2:43
many, there's so many now there's so many really good rums
2:47
you see on the shelf. It sounds like there is some
2:52
stuff that they do let through. I guess it's mainly the
2:55
petroleum that has the sanctions.
2:58
I guess they don't care about rum maybe.
3:03
Well, I think it's it's saying if the brand or distributor is
3:07
not tied to a sanctioned Venezuelan government entity.
3:11
Interesting. So you can't.
3:14
Drink. You can't get oil, but you can
3:15
get rum. We've been out of pocket for a
3:22
little bit between the both of us kind of busy and thinking we
3:26
should maybe try to keep pretty topical now.
3:30
There's a lot we could talk about government shutdown,
3:32
things like that, but I I think that of all of the noise that we
3:37
hear, Gaza and the things that are going on there have I think
3:41
the biggest potential to be to have long term positive impact
3:46
on the world. I hope there's positive
3:48
elements, but that man, it's certainly seems a tenuous
3:53
agreement of any kind. I mean, getting that, although
3:56
what I thought was amazing is they said that the negoti, I
4:00
don't know if you saw the interviews, but the negotiators
4:03
at one point, the Qatari and Israeli negotiators, I think I'm
4:10
getting this wrong, but it's like the people that I don't
4:13
know, I don't know if it was Hamas or it's Qatar.
4:16
I thought it was Qatari and Israeli negotiators.
4:18
When they came to agreement, they all hugged each other.
4:20
It's like, man, that's that's pretty significant.
4:24
Well, I can remember would have been, what, 93 when Arafat shook
4:32
hands with? Who was that?
4:35
Yeah, Was that Sharon? Yeah, yeah.
4:41
Which didn't fix everything, but it was, it was pretty nice to
4:44
see, you know, kind of powerful moments.
4:49
You know, it's weird because I think you probably got, if
4:52
you've got good negotiators, you got people that like, those are
4:55
people that are looking for a solution, right?
4:57
Those are people that want to make things better,
5:00
unfortunately with a lot of conflicts.
5:02
This is a notable example of that.
5:05
I hate to sound like a cynic, but there are a lot of people
5:08
that do not want it to change that are perfectly happy with
5:11
the status quo. Well, what was the big thing?
5:14
After they released the hostages, the, you know, Hamas
5:19
starts executing sympathizers in the streets, you know?
5:22
OK, this is great. Good job, guys.
5:26
Yeah. I don't know it, it really is a
5:30
thing the I think we've talked about it here a little bit the
5:34
it's a really kind of an insane history of where we are where we
5:38
are with this. Maybe maybe some of our
5:40
listeners haven't really paid attention to it.
5:42
You, you had, you know, obviously from biblical times,
5:48
the territory of Israel, historically the hopeless of the
5:53
Jewish people, although the diaspora started, I mean, way
6:00
back during Roman times with the destruction of the temple in 70
6:04
AD, the Romans were, you know, really attacked Jewish society.
6:11
And, and so there was this diaspora and, and that's why you
6:14
wind up with Jewish populations in all over Europe.
6:19
The prior to World War 2, the, the German and especially Polish
6:25
Jewish communities, There's huge, huge communities there.
6:28
Spain, there's a long standing community there.
6:32
But in the aftermath of World War 2 and most of the people
6:34
that remained that were living in the territory of Palestine
6:38
slash Israel were of Arabic descent Palestinians.
6:43
It's interesting that that is, we think of it mostly as a
6:47
Muslim issue, but there are a lot of Christian Palestinians
6:51
too. But after World War 2, you know,
6:55
there was a a lot of agreement on the world stage that the
6:59
Jewish people needed a homeland and they just created it kind of
7:03
without the regard for the people that are there.
7:06
And now we have this thing where the Palestinians feel like
7:10
they've been disrespected and booted from their homeland, but
7:14
the Israelis think that it's their homeland.
7:18
I think it's interesting, you know how we got here, that you
7:21
have two completely different populations, both of whom think
7:25
that they have ancestral rights to this land.
7:27
There's a little similarity with Native Americans.
7:31
I mean, you know, yes, there were Palestinians living there.
7:34
There was no state. There's no established
7:37
government or sovereignty or anything else.
7:39
So it's kind of like a lot of these conflicts that we talk
7:44
about, you see in the news, it's kind of like our conversations
7:46
about Ukraine. It's like, OK, well, that's
7:50
Russian. OK.
7:50
Well, it was Ukraine before, and then it was Russian.
7:53
Like, you know, it seems like a almost a bit of a fool's errand
7:59
to sit there and try to say, well, this belongs to so and so
8:01
and this is this person's land. I mean, we are where we are.
8:05
All these people are in these places, and they got to figure
8:07
out how to live together, you know?
8:09
Yeah. But I think the problem that a,
8:12
the reason I think that you'll, I, I'm not sure you'll ever get
8:14
to peace with A2 state solution, but I promise with A1 state
8:18
solution, you never really get to peace because it's it, it's
8:24
the perception of the Palestinian people that the
8:26
whole reason that the Jewish state exists, that state of
8:29
Israel exists is to get rid of them from the land.
8:34
And, you know, the maybe outside the scope of what we want to
8:38
talk about, but the Israelis have adopted a policy over the
8:43
last 30 years or so of actively settling in the West Bank
8:49
territory that was historically Palestinian.
8:52
And I mean, they're creating retirement communities for
8:55
American Jews to return to Israel.
8:57
And you know, I mean, I'm sure it's good economic development,
9:02
but if if if you're people that you're living there and you get
9:06
moved out of your village so that they can build a retirement
9:10
home, that's not going to a retirement community, it's not
9:13
going to make people happy. I don't know.
9:14
Every time I've talked to others with or you, you dig into the
9:20
the two state solution. I mean, that's been offered and
9:24
that's been extended by the Israelis on, I don't know, like
9:27
5 times. And every time it's shot down by
9:30
the Palestinian Authority because, well, no, there can't
9:34
if we recognize 2 States and we recognize your legitimacy.
9:37
And so it's like, how the hell do you have a negotiation with
9:40
somebody that won't recognize the fact that you're there?
9:43
You know, and I feel like it sounds like that's probably the
9:47
biggest progress. I think that's some of the
9:49
biggest progress in the current state of the negotiations is at
9:52
least not so much the Palestinians, but at least the
9:54
Gulf states are recognizing Israel's legitimacy.
9:58
I mean, the fact they're establishing relations with them
10:00
is pretty exactly significant. Maybe we can get out of this
10:05
nonsense of like, oh, I'm going to pretend you don't exist, but
10:09
that thing very much exist and we've got to deal with that so.
10:13
But to your point, it's that's part of the strategy too,
10:17
perhaps of the Israelis to blur the lines so that there's never
10:22
a place where you could draw the line and create a state.
10:25
Well, you know, one of the reasons that I wanted to talk
10:28
about, it's because, you know, and, and you, you would expect
10:32
no less of me. I've looked really hard to find
10:36
ways to bash Trump in this. And you know, I, I, I'm grateful
10:43
that he's done this and been able to be a part of, of
10:47
brokering this. Yeah, I mean, I, I feel like I
10:50
said, and it may not work. I just, you know, and I've said
10:53
it before, I like the fact he's trying stuff and yeah, even if
10:57
it doesn't work, it's better than not trying anything, you
11:00
know, I mean. I think this is the kind of
11:02
thing where, you know, the US as a convener or as a part of it is
11:08
just, I don't know, you know it, it does.
11:11
I'm getting a little philosophical here, but you
11:13
know, it's funny because even long before Trump started
11:17
talking about America first and by that meaning like, we're not
11:21
going to just jump into every foreign war that we can.
11:26
You know, I've said I thought the Iraq war was that was a deal
11:30
breaker for me with the Republicans.
11:33
And so I tend to be like, we don't need to be the world's
11:37
policeman and don't need to fix everything.
11:39
And kind of despite politics, it's interesting to see, like,
11:44
where do you draw that line? And does your opinion change
11:47
when your guys in the White House?
11:49
Yes, I think it it does for me. And but what's the appropriate
11:54
level of that? And when do we want to back off?
11:56
And how do you pick that? Well, and I think there's a
11:59
difference between diplomatic overtures and conversations and,
12:05
you know, leading agreements and troops.
12:07
You know, if he says, hey, we're going to, we want to send the
12:10
82nd Airborne, the parachute into Gaza, I'd have a huge
12:13
problem with that. But hey, you want to go to and
12:16
develop peace treaties? I mean, great.
12:18
You know, you're not getting people on the on the ground
12:21
involved. Yeah, it's, you know, it's funny
12:26
because at one point they were talking about some of the behind
12:30
the scenes in the negotiations. And I thought about this a
12:32
little bit because I don't know, we've talked about, you know, in
12:39
the past Trump's propensity to inflate or exaggerate or stretch
12:45
the truth or, you know, however you want to characterize that.
12:47
But they were saying part of the negotiation process like at one
12:51
point, and I'm probably screwing this up.
12:53
So if somebody facts that completely correct, but it was
12:56
something to the effect that like they're in the middle of
12:58
the negotiations and like Trump's like, well, Hamas, you
13:02
know, they're all for this and this and this and this.
13:04
And they were like, no, we didn't say that to like, why the
13:06
hell is he saying that? But like, you know, he's using,
13:10
you know, he's, he's trying to get people to think he, he's
13:12
creating a perception, even though it's BS, you know, and so
13:15
it's like, I just, I thought that was, I don't know, I, I
13:20
just, I keyed off on that because I thought, you know, you
13:22
know, sometimes the BS and the exaggerations are problematic.
13:26
But, you know, it's kind of like when you're negotiate
13:31
interrogating a suspect. Oh, we got the other guy.
13:34
He said he did it and you did it.
13:35
You know, I mean, there's a lot of that in the negotiation, I'm
13:38
sure. Yeah, well, yeah.
13:41
And, and the, again, I mean, I, I can't believe here I am just
13:46
like signing on for it. But Trump's utter
13:52
unpredictability is an advantage in this.
13:57
You know, I think that all of them perceive that he's got a
14:02
little bit of a hair trigger. And if they say the wrong thing
14:05
or if they if they push back too hard at the table, you don't
14:08
know what you're going to get with him.
14:10
You know, he's going to, he's going to be on Truth Social 5
14:12
minutes later saying that you're, you know, we need to
14:16
overthrow this guy. I mean, you know what I mean?
14:18
Like he, I, I. Think your acknowledgement that
14:22
this is a good thing is a much more genuine position for you
14:27
And I and I would acknowledge too, that, you know, while that
14:30
approach worked in this situation, it could also
14:33
backfire and it has backfired. So it's not without its, it's
14:37
not certainly without its pitfalls.
14:39
And I and I don't think that anybody can look at him and say,
14:42
you know, like you take the bad with the good.
14:45
Sometimes there's good that comes out of, sometimes there's
14:47
bad. Yeah, well, and Even so much as
14:50
to say is this, you know, is this a mastermind strategy or is
14:54
he just he is exactly the the tool that's needed for for this
15:01
particular. Do you know what I mean?
15:03
Rather than ascribing it the genius, what this really needed
15:07
is kind of a volatile American president with all the power in
15:13
the world, but, you know, kind of relationships with both
15:18
sides. And they've all got more to lose
15:21
by pissing Trump off than they do to gain by perpetuating a bad
15:27
thing that's been going on for a long.
15:28
Well, in my take, isn't that, you know, he wrote this in a
15:35
script as an addendum to Project 2025.
15:37
Well, here's how we're going to get peace in the Middle East.
15:39
Like, I don't, I don't know. I think his nature is he likes
15:42
to engage and spar and negotiate.
15:46
And, and you've said before, he's an opportunist, an
15:49
opportunist. And I think he's looking to find
15:52
a path and he ideates and sometimes those ideations work
15:57
and sometimes they don't. But, and I, I guess that's where
16:00
my thing is, like, I like the fact he's willing to try even if
16:03
he screws it up or doesn't go well.
16:05
Like, you know, obviously he said he's going to end the
16:07
Ukraine war in 24 hours and it didn't quite work, but he's
16:11
trying various things and I'd rather have that then not trying
16:15
because, you know, it's. Yeah, I think diplomacy is kind
16:19
of like sales or business development or anything else.
16:22
I mean, a lot of it's failure. You're going to have some
16:25
successes, but you're going to have a lot of failure.
16:27
Yeah. No, I think that's, I think that
16:29
that's reasonable. What do we have to do to make
16:32
this ceasefire into something more than cosmetic?
16:38
Yeah, it's, I really, you know, you wonder if there is a, you
16:43
know, one of the things he talked about early on was like,
16:47
you know, he was like, hey, we're going to build condos and
16:49
casinos on the Gaza Strip. You know, people are kind of
16:52
laughing. But like, I think there's a
16:55
move. And you know, if you think about
16:57
it with the Qataris involved in the, you know, the Gulf States,
17:01
I think to an extent they've seen the impact of wealth
17:08
creation is a tool to perhaps stamp out radicalization.
17:14
And is that, is that a recipe that could work?
17:16
You know, could you make this place a money making machine to
17:21
where, hey, I'd rather make money than be some guy shooting
17:26
people in the streets. But I mean, that doesn't happen
17:28
next week. But it does seem like if there
17:32
could be a pathway to really incentivize, you know, the
17:37
private enterprise to really grow that at that, like, that
17:40
could be an anecdote to all these issues someday.
17:43
That's it. That's a really interesting
17:45
idea. I mean, to take it seriously
17:48
like that. And I, I get it.
17:50
I wonder, you know, part of the reason people laugh when he
17:54
talks about doing it is because, I mean, admittedly you've got a
17:59
bit of a marketing problem if you open stuff up right now.
18:05
Well, he did that also in his first term with Kim Jong Un or
18:10
whatever he had. They had some video and they
18:13
were showing, hey, we can have condos on the on the water here
18:16
in hotels like well, I guess that didn't really, he didn't
18:20
really buy into the vision too much, but.
18:23
Again, you know, like you got your all inclusive resort.
18:30
The problem is the. Beach of Gaza.
18:32
Yeah, the the, you know, in the check in process.
18:37
Well, you're going to fly into Tel Aviv and then you.
18:40
Have put a hood over your head and smuggle you in the trunk of
18:43
a car, Yeah. Oh man, what about Netanyahu?
18:51
What do you make of him? Yeah.
18:53
I mean, he doesn't seem to be extremely popular, or does he?
18:58
No, I think, I think he is perpetuated this whole thing to
19:03
keep himself in power. That or is there, I mean what
19:08
they've done from, you know, taking out Hezbollah, taking out
19:13
Iran. I mean, you think about the
19:15
threats they have pretty much completely annihilated.
19:21
Their hand is a lot more powerful now than it than it
19:24
was, you know, 5-10 years ago. Yeah, yeah, it's true to.
19:29
Get to get to that point, you know, he's got maybe an
19:34
unpopular person like him is the only person that can make that
19:38
happen because you know it's nobody's is no better.
19:43
And, and I get what you mean in the text you said like not
19:48
wanting suffering in Gaza is an anti-Semitism.
19:51
True, but at. The same time, I think the the
19:55
patience for retaliatory attacks by Israel always are a bit muted
20:01
internationally. I mean, there's a a big
20:03
population like, well, you know, yeah, they had some attacks, but
20:06
they just need to settle down and stop attacking people.
20:09
I guess what I my point is just, I think there's varying degrees
20:12
of recognition of the level of threat that are posed to them
20:18
and. You know, there's a lot of Flack
20:21
that comes to Netanyahu because he went hard over and took out
20:25
all these folks. And yes, it's been obviously
20:28
Gaza situations and ugly situation, but at the same time
20:32
not, but not excusing any ugly thing and children dying and
20:36
everything else. Getting to this point of
20:40
weakening all of these entities, though, was going to take a lot
20:43
of unpopular activity maybe maybe to put.
20:47
You know, it it does beg the question to me, and this is an
20:52
interesting question across history for me, the perspective
20:56
of this perspective on Gaza that I probably have most resonated
21:02
with and sort of taken as truth is that Hamas is a unpopular but
21:08
repressive regime that, you know, that the average
21:14
Palestinian is not wanting to keep this going.
21:19
But they're overlorded by these, you know, truly evil people.
21:27
But I say that and then to be internally consistent, I got to
21:31
admit that in a lot of we. Had no problems with the people
21:35
of Iraq, you know, Yeah. Well, right, Like, like when do
21:42
you own responsibility for the government that you've got?
21:46
Yeah. It's related to the topic that
21:49
we've talked about before that I think is a mistake that, you
21:52
know, we, we got these names, we got a guy like Hitler rather
21:56
than the geopolitical situation of, of Germany.
22:01
You know, it is it this one guy, is it this one group of people,
22:05
Hamas or, you know, has the will of the, of the Palestinian
22:11
people needed to change to get to peace?
22:14
I don't know. Well, and I think it's the hard
22:17
part you're dealing with is you've got probably compelling
22:21
stories on every side. You know, like you see the
22:26
atrocities that happened on February 7th, OK, Those were
22:33
horrible atrocities. There's probably people in Gaza
22:36
that have seen horrible atrocities also.
22:40
And you know, if somebody killed my kids, screw them all.
22:44
Like, I like, I don't care about AI.
22:47
Don't, I don't care about a peace treaty.
22:48
I'm going to go kill people in any way.
22:51
I mean, I'm not saying I'm going to.
22:52
I'm saying if somebody killed your kid, you talk about being
22:55
eradicated. I don't think there's a point of
22:58
return if somebody, you know, horrendously murdered your
23:04
children. And the problem is in these
23:06
environments is you got people on both sides that have had
23:10
these horrendous things happen. So they all have a legitimate
23:12
beef. But peace at some point is
23:16
people saying, as bad as this is, I support peace over over
23:21
over revenge. And there's just been so much on
23:25
every side that everybody's so mad at each other and
23:28
everybody's exacting revenge. It's like that would take a lot,
23:31
I would think, to get people to back off of that.
23:33
It would. And I feel and you know, I, I
23:35
think our society and if you felt everything on social media
23:41
and everything else, it's all about getting the other guy, you
23:45
know, the equalizer. But I love the equalizer mode
23:48
because, well, you know, I'm going to get you because you did
23:51
this. And it's like getting to peace
23:54
is the hey, if we're going to agree not to kill each other,
23:57
like we both have to agree that living in peace is more
24:00
important than getting what is due us.
24:03
Yeah, yeah. And, and I think that's a lot
24:07
easier for people like us to throw around, honestly, right.
24:11
Even the most, you know, I think about 911 is the closest world
24:15
conflict has come to me probably.
24:19
And you know, I, I think that in hindsight.
24:23
OK, Yeah. Well, that was bad and but it
24:28
didn't personally affect me. And so it's it's a lot easier to
24:31
get to the point where like, I want to honor the memory of
24:34
those people that we lost, but I don't for their sake, I don't
24:40
want to get into a situation where we're in another 50 years
24:44
of conflict with a segment of the world, right.
24:48
But it wasn't my family member. Right.
24:52
And I would think in a place like Gaza, you've got everybody
24:57
in that place. And especially now in the places
24:59
in ruins, I mean, everybody there has a deep personal story
25:05
of I hate those sons of sons of guns, you know, like because of
25:09
this, this, this and this, they've all got an example.
25:12
And you know, the Israelis have an example too.
25:14
They all have examples of these horrible things.
25:18
So, you know, what do you what do you do other than annihilate
25:21
each other, right? It's just how to, I mean, that's
25:24
where I, I feel like this is the fact that we're at this point,
25:28
is it because these people are having genuine feelings of peace
25:32
or is it really just a power situation?
25:34
They know that they're defeated and they're going to have to
25:37
hand over. And I and I think if it's just
25:40
that that like, yeah, you got us by the, you know what?
25:43
So here, we'll hand over the hostages and we'll make peace.
25:46
Is that going to be a lasting. I don't think that's a lasting
25:48
peace, yeah. That's the scary thing, right?
25:51
Like it just goes underground. It just goes underground.
25:56
I was reading something the other day.
25:58
Have you heard about the Nigerian persecution of
26:01
Christian? No, I have not.
26:03
Apparently that's a huge issue right now and it's, you know,
26:08
it's not something that gets a lot of a lot of headlines, but
26:12
they said in the 1st 200 or so days of 2025, like 7000
26:20
Christians were killed. They're destroyed, destroying
26:22
churches and Christian institutions, home schools,
26:27
forced displacement. It's AI guess the fight.
26:32
The groups include Boko Haram, Islamic State, West Africa
26:36
Province and other armed herder militants.
26:41
So, you know, it's just this ragtag group of militants, but
26:44
they're, you know, and something like that, like, you know, I
26:49
mean, if 7000 anybody got killed, you know, right.
26:52
It's like it's, it's kind of nutty to me how many conflicts
26:57
around the world are like that, where thousands of people are
26:59
getting slaughtered and nobody's talking about it.
27:03
Yeah, well, and how does how does something get on the list?
27:06
I mean, don't want to go on my conspiratorial rant, but
27:14
literally like somebody's making the editorial decision that this
27:18
is this huge deal over here and this 7000 people dying over
27:22
here. Like we're not going to, we're
27:24
not going to run that anywhere. Yeah, it seemed like they're, I
27:29
don't remember travel internationally.
27:31
You'd get somebody like BBC World and they're doing these
27:34
reports from like Timbuktu all over the place.
27:37
And you know, if you look at any U.S. news program, it's all
27:43
crap. That's right here in front of
27:44
our face. Nobody's thinking about anything
27:46
happened anywhere in the world. You know, maybe there's Ukraine,
27:49
maybe there's a Gaza, maybe there's a couple of big
27:51
headlines, but to your point, and there's all kinds of
27:55
horrendous things happening globally and nobody ever talks
27:58
about it. Yeah.
28:00
But we talked about Epstein. Want to talk about Epstein?
28:05
You still are You still talking about that guy?
28:09
We're still talking. About this guy, what's the big
28:11
deal? It's So let's see.
28:14
Here's the other countries where at least 1000 people have been
28:18
killed this year. Darfur, western Sudan, there was
28:23
a landslide that killed 1000 people.
28:27
Myanmar, there's an earthquake back in March that killed 5000
28:31
people. Eastern.
28:32
These are all This is a Afghanistan. 1000 people died
28:36
from an earthquake. Think.
28:38
About that though, I mean what, 1000 people died?
28:44
Well, I'm going to show my ignorance.
28:46
When was the last time we had a mass casualty event in the US
28:49
that killed 1000 people? It probably depends on how you
28:52
count. Maybe that hurricane that hit
28:55
like North Carolina, I don't, I don't know.
28:59
But to your point, we just listed 1/2 a dozen mass casualty
29:03
events in other countries that we didn't nobody heard about.
29:07
The biggest one was in 1900 the Galveston hurricane killed 6 to
29:12
12,000 and in 1927 of flood miss, a Mississippi flood may
29:18
have killed up to 1000. People.
29:20
Well, how many people died in Katrina?
29:22
I mean, you don't have to go all the way back to Galveston,
29:24
right? Katrina would have been maybe
29:26
not. Yeah, 1300, Thirteen 192.
29:31
Well, again, to put it in a kind of a Geo context though, right,
29:33
You just listed off all these 1005 thousand Hurricane Katrina.
29:38
I mean, what, 20 years later is this monumental event in the US?
29:45
And I don't know where you find out about this stuff.
29:47
I mean, other than ChatGPT. I mean, if you ask like nobody's
29:51
reporting on any of this stuff. And, you know, you know, I'm not
29:54
trying to, you know, make this some point.
29:59
It's just, it's just odd to me that like you said, there's a
30:03
select group of things that make the news that people, you know,
30:06
and I'm sure, you know, I'm sure they're basing it on what's
30:10
going to impact the most people. What, you know, they're, there's
30:13
all kinds of statistics. I'm sure they're basing on
30:15
what's going to generally, like maybe a massacre in Nigeria
30:19
nobody's going to care about, but they're going to care about
30:20
Israel, you know, Yeah. But, you know, then our outrage
30:24
follows the news rather than vice versa.
30:27
And so we read about this and we're all spun about this, but
30:31
we're not reading about that. I don't know this.
30:34
Sounds like a broken record bitching about the media but
30:36
really like 5000 people killed and just like no mention.
30:41
Yet 5 people get shot in a nightclub or something and you
30:45
know, it's dominating, yeah. Let's talk about comedy and
30:50
Bolton and I'll say this, that we got to stop this, the
30:58
political prosecution of enemies.
31:01
I will fully admit I think I'm on record of this.
31:05
Maybe this is before we started doing the podcast.
31:08
As little as I think of Donald Trump, I think that the the
31:12
civil trial in New York was a it was unwise.
31:17
I think he's guilty of it and I think he's he's a bad guy, but I
31:21
think it was it was a fool's errand to to chase after him to
31:25
that. It was a Pyrrhic victory.
31:28
And I've I was the of the cases that they prosecuted him for,
31:34
the one I was most sympathetic to was the classified documents.
31:39
If I had been given all of the power to decide, I would have
31:45
prosecuted that case. I would have left the others
31:47
alone. To that end, if the prosecution
31:51
can make a case that John Bolton misused classified documents, he
31:55
ought to pay the penalty for that.
31:58
And, and comedy I it, it sounds like a weak case.
32:02
If they can prove a case to a jury, I'll support that victory.
32:06
Or, you know, I'll support that verdict, whatever it is.
32:09
Yeah, I do think the fact a grand jury and a liberal
32:16
liberal, you know, more liberal demographic location said we
32:21
think there's something here tells me there's something
32:23
there. Grand juries are pretty
32:25
notorious for being easy to manipulate, but there, there,
32:30
there at least must have been the pretense of something
32:33
worthwhile. So yeah, yeah.
32:35
I mean, if he's, if he's truly innocent, I think he'll be
32:37
proven that way. Yeah.
32:40
It it's a weird thing that the indictment, I mean, it's ugly.
32:44
It's ugly to go for the FBI to go busting into some guy's house
32:49
like they do Bolton or whatever. Or or Trump or or no the no or
32:55
the OR the 50 guys with assault weapons that showed up at what
33:01
was that guy Rodger Stone's residence?
33:06
CNN happened to be out out front when they pulled in with the
33:11
FBI, Yes. Yeah, I, I, I don't know, I
33:13
think that stuff's BSII don't like that.
33:16
I didn't like it when it, when Trump was the target.
33:20
And don't get me wrong, I think Trump is, I think he was guilty
33:24
of cheating on the bank applications.
33:29
I but I don't think it was in the country's best interests to
33:33
pursue that. And I think I've that's been
33:36
proven to be correct. But you grew up in the same
33:39
household and I did. And there was this saying that
33:44
two wrongs don't make a right. So like we're not better off now
33:50
because Trump's going to wreak retribution on James Comedy and
33:55
John Bolton. Look at if, if, if that joke of
33:59
a prosecutor can put together a case and beat comedy and put him
34:04
in jail, fine. I'm going to go out on a limb
34:08
and say that no matter what you think of him, Comedy is not the
34:12
kind of guy that is careless with stuff, and I think they're
34:18
going to have a hard time hanging something on him.
34:22
Yeah, in which case, you know, maybe there's no foul there.
34:26
I I don't necessarily think the prosecution's, you know,
34:29
prosecute which. But when you see the the case,
34:33
is there a case to be made? Is it legitimate or not?
34:36
I don't know, may not be but. I guess The thing is though,
34:39
their private citizen has no recourse, right?
34:41
That's the part that bothers me is I don't know what do you, I
34:45
guess you do you sue the Justice Department for malicious
34:48
prosecution. The thing is that he's got the
34:51
money to pay for the defense that he's going to have.
34:55
What happens to people that don't have the money right?
34:57
That's where this kind of, that's where this kind of thing
35:01
goes really South. It's because, yeah, he'll be
35:03
acquitted. I I will buy you an expensive
35:06
bottle of bourbon if James Comedy goes to prison for this.
35:09
OK, I'll be on record. Sounds like a sounds like a
35:13
wager. That's good.
35:13
I'll I'll get you. I'll get you A room.
35:16
I think, I think Bolton might be a little more careless.
35:19
He he, they might be able to slap something together on on.
35:23
Well, they said with him, his memoirs had classified
35:26
information in it. So like, well, that's probably
35:28
not wise to publish. Yeah, but we'll see.
35:32
But. Interestingly, on him, that case
35:37
originally that originated in the Biden administration, but
35:41
the Biden Justice Department, the Biden, they decided not to
35:44
prosecute. So it to some extent, it was
35:47
almost like a the decision not to prosecute was because he was
35:53
a Trump critic. Yeah.
35:54
Well, OK. But so let me ask you this, and
35:57
this is, I don't know, you know, maybe this is now I'm getting
36:01
away from my nice words about Trump, but.
36:03
Well, you can't. We got to argue.
36:04
Can't. This show is about friendly
36:06
arguments. If we're not arguing, we're
36:07
doing it wrong. So let me ask you this if you
36:10
really believe that there's a case against James comedy, what?
36:14
Why act like it's the persecution of an enemy?
36:19
Why tell people I'm going to go after my political enemies
36:24
because they're my political like?
36:26
Like, why not even give the veneer of, well, he was in a in
36:31
a position of authority and there were things that he did
36:33
that needed to be like, like, there's no even pretense.
36:37
I'm going to drain the swamp, OK?
36:39
That's what people voted for. Yeah, but that's not what he's
36:42
talking about now, because it's all about he's my in him.
36:46
Yeah, You know, it's a subtle difference, but I think it's an
36:48
important one. Drain the swamp implies that I'm
36:52
going to get rid of people that are hurting the American people
36:55
because of their entrenched deep state.
36:57
Whatever you got right. The the the reason given for
37:02
pursuing these people is that they criticize.
37:05
Trump that. Seems that just seems tacky to
37:08
me. Well, I, I agree with you.
37:11
I, I, I do think the decisions around the Trump collusion
37:19
investigation and the use of the hit piece from Clintons
37:22
campaign, I think that's a huge scandal and I think Comey's got
37:25
his hands deep into that. But I think.
37:30
That's not what they're trying him for, for what it's worth.
37:33
Yeah, but, and that's what I'm saying, to your point, if I if,
37:38
if I was Trump, I would not have gone down the path he went down
37:41
and said I'd go down the path of like, he's wrapped up in this
37:43
awful thing and we need to get to the bottom of it.
37:46
But I will also concede that sticking to the message isn't
37:51
Trump's strong point. Well, and I'll throw you another
37:56
wrench in the thing instead of instead of saying we're going to
38:01
go after comedy because he criticized the president and I
38:03
think he's a bad guy and I why didn't they prosecute him for
38:09
the Russia collusion? In fact, why has nobody been
38:12
prosecuted for that? Why has there been nothing about
38:15
that? Is it possible, Kyle, that there
38:18
are factual errors in the Steele dossier, but there's some truth
38:23
there and there's more than anybody wants to talk about?
38:27
If I'm really pissed on the bed is what you're saying?
38:30
Well, I mean, if I'm accused of using this thing to defraud and
38:37
that's my crime, the very best defense I could put forward is,
38:41
well, no, there's some truth stuff in there.
38:44
And, you know, probably don't want to stick my deck out and
38:49
say I think it was all true. And I think that they found a
38:53
couple of false things and made it up.
38:54
But there's a lot of truth in it.
38:56
I don't know, maybe nobody's been prosecuted.
39:00
But I mean, part of the problem too, is a lot of the people who
39:04
it appears their hands were the dirtiest are, you know, Obama,
39:09
you know, that's, you know, are you going to die in that hill?
39:13
I don't know. I mean, I think there are a lot
39:15
of people that jumped on this thing at high levels.
39:20
And I don't know how much of that is criminal and how much of
39:23
that is just scandalous, you know?
39:25
Yeah. Well, it seems like if it was as
39:28
bad a deal as it's painted, somebody ought to get prosecuted
39:33
and we ought to have a depositions on this thing.
39:36
We ought to have a process of discovery.
39:38
We ought to get documents about things that happened and make
39:41
sure that all of it's false. Yeah, I mean, it's a good point.
39:46
It's it certainly seems like there's a lot to dig into there.
39:50
Maybe they need a like the January 6th Commission.
39:53
Maybe, maybe Matt Getz could chair a Commission Kent on the
39:58
you know, or I don't know, he's no longer congressman.
40:00
I'm trying to think who would be the antithesis of Liz Cheney?
40:04
John Fetterman can chair the When's he going to be a
40:07
Republican? I don't know.
40:09
I I saw something that the Democrats were coming for him.
40:12
I like people that don't that, that don't drink the entire
40:17
kool-aid of the of the party, both sides.
40:20
I think it's healthy. I'm going to say it.
40:24
Marjorie Taylor Green has, you know, the list of my critiques
40:33
of her is long, but she's been making some statements and it's
40:38
in the Epstein thing was a big deal to her.
40:40
She said this is this is bad and we can't do that.
40:44
And and now she's like ostracized.
40:47
But I I give props to anybody who pushes back against their
40:50
party. Yeah.
40:52
No, I agree and I I really am still not satisfied on that
40:56
whole debacle. We can't keep talking about it
41:00
every week. But.
41:01
No, I play. It would be so easy to make it
41:04
go away. I can't get past that.
41:07
That's the part I can't get. We have released all
41:10
documentation that were legally authorized to release Kent.
41:16
And why haven't we? Heard more about this UFO thing
41:18
too that that congressman was talking about that's gone quiet.
41:22
Tell me more there. You know, we talked a couple of
41:25
weeks ago about that congressman from, I think, Arizona who was
41:30
on that congressional committee, and they got shown evidence of,
41:34
oh, yeah, something that isn't of this world, and oddly,
41:38
nobody's talking about that anymore.
41:42
Fell off the landscape pretty quickly.
41:46
The trilateral is calling the shots here.
41:49
They're like, Oh no. Go back, I didn't read the
41:51
article but I heard some companies R&D department took
41:56
credit for all the New Jersey drones.
41:59
Yeah, I did. See that?
42:00
Yes, some government contractor. Yeah, OK.
42:04
That's still kind of an unsatisfying explanation.
42:07
Like, oh, OK, no problem. It was a private contractor for
42:12
the Defense Department, flying drones in all these people's
42:15
backyards. In the way the article read it
42:18
was something like, well, the company's anonymous.
42:21
What the hell does that mean? Well, it's an anonymous company.
42:25
This Jim. Jim Smith from a company that
42:28
supposedly exists. Like what?
42:30
They just write it off. That's right.
42:33
You even know what that means. Well, they do, and they're the
42:37
ones writing it off. Yeah, I don't know the whole UFO
42:41
thing. I'm, I'm listening to a book
42:43
right now, book on tape. And this guy, you know, he
42:47
weaves together this narrative and it, it started at Roswell.
42:52
There was a Commission that got together, said we're going to,
42:56
you know, the deep state said we're going to bury this thing.
42:59
And I that just, that just stretches my imagination.
43:04
I, I'd I'd like I. Well, it's back to our dad's
43:09
thing. Always was like, they're just
43:11
not capable of holding together a story.
43:13
I mean, if there was something that salacious, somebody
43:17
somewhere is going to spill them.
43:18
Well, don't you think even the Airman First class who drives a
43:22
forklift in the warehouse at Wright Patterson is going to
43:25
tell his girlfriend if he's moving alien bodies right?
43:29
You know, it's funny because I was stationed at Wright Patt and
43:32
there is a a friend who worked in public affairs and she was
43:36
like, we get like a dozen calls a day.
43:41
Open the hangar. Now we know you've got it in
43:47
there. Which probably means that
43:50
somebody's first job, NPR for the Air Force at right that or
43:56
some as well. OK, So what am I going to do for
43:58
my 2 1/2 year assignment here? Well, you're going to go see.
44:03
This group over here. Hey, thanks for joining us on
44:09
this episode of Bourbon and Rum Podcast.
44:11
We hope you enjoyed it. Remember to subscribe on your
44:14
favorite platform and leave us a review.
44:16
Your feedback helps us keep the good spirits flowing.
44:20
And we invite you to join this conversation.
44:22
Follow us on our Facebook page. Let us know what you think.
44:24
Let us know what. You want to hear?
44:26
And until next time, cheers.