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How to determine the best type of trust for you and your family · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm joined
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  Speaker 2: by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm of
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  Speaker 2: Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
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  Speaker 3: Welcome Todd. How are you today? I am never better
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  Speaker 3: and you I'm excellent? Thank you? What do you have
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  Speaker 3: for us this week? As we approach the end of
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  Speaker 3: the month.
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  Speaker 4: I did this summer to the summer, you said, that
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  Speaker 4: not me, but I do have a couple of cases
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  Speaker 4: actually fairly interesting. I think an Arizona Appellet court case. Basically,
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  Speaker 4: you know, when when do you actually have a will?
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  Speaker 4: Does signing a will XO equal a signature? We're going
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  Speaker 4: to find out exactly how do yellow sticky notes amount
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  Speaker 4: to a holographic will? Well, we're going to find out,
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  Speaker 4: So stay tuned and we're going to see obviously what
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  Speaker 4: not to do, and probably yellow sticky notes is on
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  Speaker 4: the not to do list.
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  Speaker 3: When is a life estate actually created?
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  Speaker 4: We go to Pennsylvania and we have an appellate court
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  Speaker 4: case there where we're going to find out was a
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  Speaker 4: life estate created? Was there a right to use an
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  Speaker 4: occupy created in piece of property? What's the difference between
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  Speaker 4: the two, and whether that's even great planning or not.
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  Speaker 4: Speaking of great planning, this guide it is the end
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  Speaker 4: of the month and it really has everything you need
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: to start your estate planning. It's demystifying the top seven
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  Speaker 4: state planning trust These are the trusts that I think
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  Speaker 4: are used most often. And if you've never done your
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  Speaker 4: planning and you want to figure out how to plan.
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  Speaker 3: Which trust is right for you? Call and get this guide.
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  Speaker 4: Also, if you've done your planning and you might need
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  Speaker 4: to see how to update, maybe a different kind of
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  Speaker 3: Now get it.
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  Speaker 4: It includes things from nominee realty trusts which are not
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  Speaker 4: really trust, to revocable irrevocable, many kinds of irrevocable trust,
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: even special needs trusts and pool trusts in case you
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  Speaker 4: have a special needs child situation. So end of the month, folks,
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  Speaker 4: last chance to get it. Top seven Estate planning trusts
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  Speaker 4: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
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  Speaker 4: or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six
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  Speaker 4: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 4: Show dot com exox Go to Arizona and learn about
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  Speaker 4: XOS here. So James was found dead in his home
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  Speaker 4: in June of twenty twenty three. The police found two
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  Speaker 4: sticky notes. One sorry I don't have the tools for this.
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  Speaker 4: Beth gets everything. Second sticky note. Sorry Universe, but thanks
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  Speaker 4: for the experience, XO, hugs and kisses. What the police found? So,
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  Speaker 4: all right, James had five sisters. I assume there's no kids,
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  Speaker 4: but that didn't say so James had five sisters and
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  Speaker 4: they you know, applied for an informal will and they
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  Speaker 4: probated it, alleging that there was no unrevoked wills anywhere.
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  Speaker 4: They couldn't find any, and there were no other testamentary instruments,
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  Speaker 4: and there are no other surviving heirs.
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  Speaker 3: So okay, so there's the answer. No kids.
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  Speaker 4: So they think they're entitled to everything one fifth each.
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  Speaker 4: Remember this means that he would have died without a will, right, Well, Beth,
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  Speaker 4: who they never tell me whether Beth is a sister
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  Speaker 4: or not.
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  Speaker 3: So is she one of the siblings? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 4: Beth alleges that the instruments that were created, the sticky Notes,
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  Speaker 4: were a holographic will, naming her the sole beneficiary of
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  Speaker 4: the estate. What's the definition of a holographic will. Well,
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  Speaker 4: it's a document that is written handwritten entirely by the decedent, James.
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  Speaker 2: In this case, they need to really change the name
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  Speaker 2: of that because all I can think of is Star
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  Speaker 2: Trek and.
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  Speaker 3: Just this holograph, hologram, hologram coming down.
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  Speaker 4: So yeah, that's not holographic and so entirely written by
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  Speaker 4: James's handwriting and signed by James.
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  Speaker 3: Do we actually have that?
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  Speaker 4: Well, the sisters filed for summary judgment, saying sticky notes
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  Speaker 4: simply do not equate to a valid will, and therefore
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  Speaker 4: he died intest eight without a will.
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  Speaker 3: And the Superior Court.
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  Speaker 4: Granted the summary judgment because they said, you know what,
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  Speaker 4: the sticky notes lacked a signature.
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  Speaker 3: There you go, Susan the XO.
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  Speaker 4: Well Beth appealed saying no, no, no, the XO at
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  Speaker 4: the end is a signature. But the court said, even
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  Speaker 4: if it was intended to be a signature, it does
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  Speaker 4: not qualify as a signature because generally that means love
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  Speaker 4: and affection or friendliness, or.
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  Speaker 2: If you do exits and o's, it means you can't write.
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  Speaker 2: But he wrote the sticky note, so that's not the case.
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  Speaker 2: He just didn't sign it.
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  Speaker 3: He just didn't sign it.
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  Speaker 4: That's a good point, but they say the general connotation
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  Speaker 4: of that is affectionate, friendliness.
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  Speaker 3: Cases and hugs to the universe, to.
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  Speaker 4: The universe, so you know, and and basically the appellate
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  Speaker 4: court what affirmed the lower court's ruling And there's no
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  Speaker 4: no will.
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  Speaker 3: Here, right, so it doesn't count.
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  Speaker 4: So this didn't account for an out. Remember, folks, a
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  Speaker 4: holographic will, again completely handwritten signed. It doesn't have to
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  Speaker 4: be notarized, doesn't have to have witnesses, but it does
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  Speaker 4: have to be signed, but written by you. I think
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  Speaker 4: in this case they probably didn't have that. Yeah, that's
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  Speaker 4: the difference with the holographic will. But because it's handwritten.
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  Speaker 3: Right, so they can see that you're right, you're right
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  Speaker 3: for interesting.
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  Speaker 4: So now remember, folks, you know a basic will just
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  Speaker 4: to analyze what happened here. A basic will in this case,
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  Speaker 4: you know, if you have it, it's better than nothing,
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  Speaker 4: because here it turned out to be nothing.
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  Speaker 3: So if you had a will.
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  Speaker 4: At least, if it's a valid will, it will ensure
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  Speaker 4: where your assets go when they get there, you know,
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  Speaker 4: and ensure your wishes are taken care of. So therefore
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  Speaker 4: Beth would have gotten everything. But now with no will,
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  Speaker 4: she might not.
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  Speaker 2: She may not have any standing. She may not be
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  Speaker 2: one of those sisters.
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  Speaker 4: Right, So the next question is is Beth a sister
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  Speaker 4: or not? Well, we've determined in this case that they
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  Speaker 4: died intestate, so you know, in this case, if Beth
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  Speaker 4: is one of the sisters, then she would at least
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  Speaker 4: get one fifth, right, if she's one of that's better
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  Speaker 4: than nothing. However, if James had kids or anybody else,
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  Speaker 4: the siblings wouldn't even get anything, they'd be out.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know they didn't have it, but I just
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  Speaker 4: want people to know that siblings are not very high
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  Speaker 4: in the intestate's success in chart. You know, it's spouses, kids.
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  Speaker 3: Parents, yep, you know. Then you find your way to siblings.
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  Speaker 4: Usually every state is different, folks, so I'm not trying
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  Speaker 4: to but in general, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So so there you go. So just be careful.
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  Speaker 4: Now, remember, even though I'm telling you in this case,
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  Speaker 4: a will is certainly better than nothing, you're.
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  Speaker 3: Not recommending he and writing your will.
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  Speaker 4: No, I'm not recommending the holographic will, and I'm certainly
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  Speaker 4: not even recommending a will. But at least if there
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  Speaker 4: was a will, you know, Beth would have been taken
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  Speaker 4: care of an actual will, right, yeah, she would have
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  Speaker 4: at least been taken care of. But remember, overall, what
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  Speaker 4: I call a will as a won't because remember, it
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  Speaker 4: won't avoid probate, so you're there. It won't protect any
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  Speaker 4: of the assets from the nursing home if that was
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  Speaker 4: something on her mind, doesn't shelter from a state taxes, right,
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  Speaker 4: and generally it doesn't really provide for any ongoing, you know,
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  Speaker 4: taking care of family members. So it's it doesn't do
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  Speaker 4: a lot, but it's better than nothing. What's better than
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  Speaker 4: all of this, of course a trust, which and the
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  Speaker 4: guide gives you seven different kinds of trusts to pick
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  Speaker 4: from that might be right for you. But remember any
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  Speaker 4: kind of a trust would be better than just a
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  Speaker 4: will because you know, if it's revocable or irrevocable, you know,
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  Speaker 4: at least we know everything that's in it.
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  Speaker 3: It's going to avoid probate either way.
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  Speaker 4: If it's irrevocable, not only are you avoiding probate, but
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  Speaker 4: you're adding the ability to protect the asset from the
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  Speaker 4: cost of nursing home care, you know, which is important,
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  Speaker 4: so it can prevent all And they also both of
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  Speaker 4: these trusts are likely to prevent all of this litigation, right,
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  Speaker 4: so you kind of add that to it and you
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  Speaker 4: don't really lose a lot of control when you get
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  Speaker 4: to the ear of vocable trust level. Both of these
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  Speaker 4: trusts are also designed if you're married. Now again, single people,
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  Speaker 4: they don't. You only have one exemption. But if you're
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  Speaker 4: married and you're doing either the revocable or the ear
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  Speaker 4: of vocable trust for nursing home protection, you're going to
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  Speaker 4: you're going to shelter assets for state tax purposes. Generally
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  Speaker 4: wills don't do that.
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  Speaker 2: And potentially you could even eliminate estate taxes, not just reduce.
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely a big plus. And remember wills don't do that.
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  Speaker 4: They generally just leave everything to each other if you're married,
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  Speaker 4: so that doesn't help. And finally, remember these trusts can
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  Speaker 4: live on and protect assets from future divorces of children.
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  Speaker 4: Control for special needs can also skip a generation for
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  Speaker 4: state tax purposes. So trust planning certainly way better than
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: a holographic will or even a will. So call and
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: get the guide. Pick out which kind of trust is
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: right for you. Demystifying the top seven estate planning trusts
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  Speaker 4: eight sixty six eight four, eight five six nine nine
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  Speaker 4: or Legal Exchange show dot com.
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  Speaker 3: It's the last chance to get it.
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Power as
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got
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  Speaker 2: much more to come when we return to the Legal
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  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
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  Speaker 1: A trust isn't just a document, it's a powerful tool
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the legal exchange with Todd Latsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Olan with a masters in taxation.
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  Speaker 2: Where we headed now, Todd, We're going.
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  Speaker 4: To go to Pennsylvania. We have an appellate court case there.
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  Speaker 4: This one is you know, when is a life estate
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  Speaker 4: actually a life estate? Seems interesting?
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  Speaker 3: I make this part up. By the way, is it
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  Speaker 3: a sticky note state? Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: No, not that way, but it's different. So so David
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  Speaker 4: A important because he's got a son, David M. We'll
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: find out later. So David A died on August twenty nineteen.
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  Speaker 4: His will, so at least there was a will permitted
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  Speaker 4: his friend and caretaker Mary, the right to occupy the
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: house until she vacates or dies, whichever occurs first. Seems
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  Speaker 4: pretty clear, yep. David m the son files a petition
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  Speaker 4: to sell the house to pay the in pridance tax
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  Speaker 4: the death tax. The probate court determined that David's will
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  Speaker 4: devised a life estate to marry and denied David's petition
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  Speaker 4: to sell because it was determined that there was other assets.
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  Speaker 3: That could pay the estate tax.
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  Speaker 4: Don't know if that's right or wrong, by the way,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: let's keep going. David then appealed. Of course, he's not
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: happy with that result, and the appellate court affirmed, finding
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: that David's will permitted Mary the right to use and
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: occupy the home, but I think rightfully determined that it
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: did not grant her a life estate. There's a difference
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: between the right to use and occupy and a life estate,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: which we will learn today. But did agree that since
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: there was sufficient assets to exist to pay the taxes,
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: that there was no reason to sell the home and marry.
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  Speaker 4: You get the right to live there, to use and occupy. Well,
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: she gets to stay there till she dies. Yeah, and
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  Speaker 4: that's that's what the will said. Again, a will better
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: than nothing, right, but it's at least it's going to
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: effectuate that wish. But I think what we really need
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  Speaker 4: to learn from this case is you know, how you
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: leave real estate to somebody.
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  Speaker 3: Sometimes a will is not enough. We're going to find
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  Speaker 3: that out.
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  Speaker 4: And we're also going to learn about what a life
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  Speaker 4: estate is and what is the difference between a life
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: estate and a use and occupancy situation, and maybe how
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  Speaker 4: a trust can actually control the house a lot better
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: than a will. And I think there's a lot of
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  Speaker 4: language missing here in terms of how are we going.
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  Speaker 3: To pay for all for everything?
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  Speaker 4: There's no money here, There's barely enough money to pay
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  Speaker 4: the estate taxes. What I'm what I'm learning from this,
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  Speaker 4: So I think that it's a short fact but it
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: has a lot of issues in.
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  Speaker 3: It and learn lessons to learn. For sure.
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  Speaker 4: We're gonna we're gonna analyze that. But before we do again,
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: the first thing I would do is not do just
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: a will. I'd do a trust. And the guide the
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: last chance to get this guide, folks, it's the end
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: of the month. The guide we're giving away this month
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: is the top seven estate planning trusts that I find
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: are most recently used from Nominee Realty trusts, which are
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: horrible but you'll see when you read it. Revocable irrevocable.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: How about irrevocable life insurance trust versus medicaid trusts versus
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: pooled trusts? Explains the gift tax results, the income tax issues,
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: and how they operate. Folks, if you've never done your planning,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: this is certainly for you. Figure out which trust is
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: right for you. And if you've done your planning, maybe
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: it's time for an upgrade. See which one's right for you.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: Get the guide End of the Month eight six six
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: Show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: All right, what not to do? What's going on here?
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: What's going on here? Well?
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Typically, how do you create a life estate and what
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: is it? It's when an owner of property during life
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: never mind death right during life conveys the property gifts
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: if you will the property interest to a person or
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: a trust and retains the right to live there and
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: or collect any rent for the rest of their life.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: So giving and retaining, Yes, a gift tax return is
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: usually required. You have a completed gift at the time
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: you set this up, so file it and then at
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: death of the what of the life tenant, the person
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: who owned the property gave it away but retained that
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: nugget to live there. The full value of that property
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: is going to be included in the estate of that
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: person when they die. That's important because the beneficiaries in
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: this case, the remainder men, the person or the people
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: who get it when you die. Not only did it
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: avoid probate, but it got a full step up in basis. Therefore,
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: when the beneficiary goes to sell that property, whomever it is,
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: if it's shortly after death of the life tenant, pay
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: zero capital gains tax because the basis would equal the
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: fair market value.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: So that's a life estate.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: Clearly, that's not what happened here, So I think the
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: courts got that right. Mary did not have a life estate.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: Mary didn't own property and give it away and retain
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: the right to live there. Mary just had the right
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: to use it, and she acquired that right to use.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: It upon the death of David A.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: In this case, so I believe when she dies there
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: would be no inclusion in her estate, there'd be no
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: step up in basis. The basis step up would have
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: occurred when David A died. Dad died yep, So it's
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: never been owned by her, and therefore that since she's
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: never been the owner, I don't think she would have
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: been able to prevent the sale. Now, as a life tenant,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: you're an owner. So if while you're living, I give
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: you a remainder interest Susan and I keep the right
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: to live there, and you want to sell it while
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: I'm alive, I need.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: To sign right. You can't do it on my own.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Right, so I could prevent the sale. I don't think
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: Mary could do that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Here.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: Mary would only have she'd have no right, she'd just
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: have the right to use an occupy, no real fee,
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: simple owner.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So do you think he probably didn't need to go
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: through the court to force it, to try and force
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: a sale.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: No, there was a will here, you're in it's in probate,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: got it because all they had was a will. But
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: that's a great question, because that's my next point is
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: you know what if there was a trust?
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Well, if there was a.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: Trust, we would have been not in the will in
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: the probate situation. And why is it better? Well, I
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: think one you're avoiding probate, and two how you leave
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: the home in a trust can be better controlled through
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: a trust. So in this case, I see it lots
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: of times where you know a child needs a place
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: to live, or maybe a child was a caretaker.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know which, but.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: There's sometimes a reason to give a child the right
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: to live there. But we don't want the other children
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: to feel disinherited. So when you leave the property and
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: trust for a child, you should put additional language in,
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: like that's what's missing here, which is you know you
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: can live.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: There and it'll be protected for the other kids.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: But while you're living there, you know you need to
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: pay all the real estate taxes, you need to pay
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: the utilities, the maintenance, the upkeep right put language in
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: that says, hey, child or whoever it is, marry In
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: this case, you know, if you miss a bill by
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: ninety consecutive days, there's got to be some penalty.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: You lose your right to live there.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: If you move out for like six consecutive months and
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: we don't know you're coming back, you're going to lose
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: your right to live there.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: You got it.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: You can't let the house fall into disrepair, and then
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: if that happens or they die, then the property is
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: still there and available to go to the other beneficiaries,
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: the other children perhaps, So you know, it's very important
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: that you add this language to the trust to preserve,
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: you know, the property and take care of whoever it
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: is that's that's living there at the same time. You
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: know what, I see this oftentimes not just for children
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: who might be caretakers, but second marriages. Right, you got
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: a second marriage and maybe the one spouse brought the
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: asset to the marriage and they're living there their whole life.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: Well you got to have it stay for that second,
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: for that spouse, for that spouse's life, and tell the
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: kids on your side of the marriage stay put and
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: you'll get it back off, but you'll get it later.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: So I think a trust is a way better way
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: to leave real estate to family members and control it.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: That's why we're giving away the top seven estate planning
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: trust find out which one's right for you, folks.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: It's the end of the month.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Call and get the guide eight six six eight four
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with a
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. Todd will be
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: answering your listener questions when we return to the Legal
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: A trust isn't just a document. It's a powerful tool
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  Speaker 1: that can help protect your assets from the nursing home
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  Speaker 6: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. When
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  Speaker 6: it comes to legacy planning, having a will is important,
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  Speaker 6: but it may not be enough. It will only covers probate assets,
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• 25:04
  Speaker 6: That's where trusts come in. Trust can help you avoid probate,
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  Speaker 6: keep your wishes private, and control how and when your
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• 25:44
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  Speaker 1: dot com. You're listening to the Legal Exchange, and it's
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: time for Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: your questions about anything and everything that's included in the
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Janna and Wellesley mass In.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Janna Wrights, my fifty year old husband was recently diagnosed
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: with a debilitating health condition that will shorten his life
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: expectancy to around seven years. I'm only forty five and
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: we don't really have much in assets yet, but he
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: does have a one million dollar life insurance policy. We
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: have two children, ages five and seven, and we don't
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: have a trust. Is there anything that you recommend we
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: do immediately in terms of legal documents, My parents have
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: an irrevocable trust, but I feel like we are too
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: young for that. We don't have anything in place now,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: so no legal documents at all.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is tough.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, I guess they in terms of assets, I'm
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: sure if they have a home in Wellesley's it's going
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: to have some assets, some.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Value to it.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: Big mortgage, yeah, it could be a big mortgage, but
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: there could be a valuable asset to protect in the future.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: So you know, it says debilitating. You know, does that
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: mean just to die or does that mean I'm going
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: to linger in a nursing home. So I don't know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: well what that means.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: She did say that his life expectancy at this point
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: is around seven years, but I don't know if he'll
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: go into a nursing home right.
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: So my thinking is it's just some kind of an
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: illness that just takes your life. It doesn't necessarily disable you, right,
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: It just you know, takes it. So so I don't
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: know that there'll be a long stay in the nursing rome.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: And obviously if it was that kind of an of
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: an illness, that's what you have to think about, is
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: even though you're only forty five, you know, if you
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: know this is the kind of thing that says, you know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: for the next you know, it shortens his life, but
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: the last three years are going to be nursing home,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: right years because of the kind of illness it is. Yeah,
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: you have to you have to think about an ear
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: of vocal trust. But if they don't have a lot
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: of other assets, then then that also would be okay
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: because the house would be would be protected automatically for her,
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: for her, no matter how much it's worth. And if
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: the other assets are not high, you know, she gets
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: to keep one hundred and fifty seven thousand right off
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: the bat, and the rest of them really likely could
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: buy an annuity to get past his life expectancy. So
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: so even for her at forty five and two young kids,
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: you know, in this situation you need to know a
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: little bit more about the facts. But but maybe she
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: wouldn't even need to go the irrevocable trust route at
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: this point, even though we know of the illness. But
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: you know, it never hurts to have a revocable trust
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: set up, because again I don't. And if I can
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: somehow utilize some of his exemption on the first death,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: especially if she's young, and we could shelter assets when
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: he passes and have all of those sheltered assets double
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: multiple times.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean you're talking forty years for her
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: life expectancy, you know.
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: So that could double many times, and that would all
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: be doubling as the tax free to the extent she's
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: not using it, of course, which she could do. But well,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: that's something to think about. And this is a great
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: question because I tell people all the time, we never
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: are planning for today. We are planning whole life, right,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: We're planning whole life because of these things that grow
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: and you have to think about life changes, and so yeah,
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: so I'm thinking probably for her, you know, a joint
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: revocable trust and the basic documents on basic documents for
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: sure to take care of him and powers of attorney
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: and health care decisions and things like that, and that's
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: funny because in the guide we talk about revocable, but
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: remember there's a joint revocable trust, and then there's revocable
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: trusts that are for for married couples that are separate,
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: and then a single person revocable trust.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: What about the insurance policy has a million dollar life
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: insurance policy on himself? Would you put that into the
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: trust or just change the beneficiary to the trust.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: I would just change the beneficiary to the trust, make
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: sure that it gets there. When that's the asset we're
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: talking about, sheltering, right and whatever else we can put
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: over there to let it grow a state tax free.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: So yes, trusts are definitely needed. You wouldn't think so.
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Even in this case they're younger. Doesn't matter, folks, Younger,
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: older trusts are needed. The type of trust you need
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: changes based on your age, based on your net worth,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: based on your family situation. This guide gives you seven
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: choices as to what kind of trust is right for you.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: We talked about revocable here, but there's many kinds of
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: irrevocable trusts, and special needs trusts and nominee realty trusts.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: All in the guide, folks, learn which one's right for you,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: it's the end of the month, call and get the
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: guide eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com Top seven Estate
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: planning Trusts eight six six eight four eight five six
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com todd.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Mike and Clinton Mass and
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Mike writes, my brother inherited a home from our mother
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: through her Nominee reality trust, but never updated the deed
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: to put it into his name. He recently passed away
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: after spending a year in a nursing home on medicaid.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: What happens to his house now? Will the nursing home
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: take it or will it go to his beneficiary, which
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: is me?
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: This is interesting, So let's back up a little. So
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: brother inherits property. So brother gets a piece of property
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: through Nominee realty trust, which, in my mind, if you
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: stop and unravel that for a minute, brother could have
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: actually been the owner way long ago. So you have
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: to really think that through right. Nomine realty trusts, which
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: are in the guide right, are misunderstood trusts.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: So if this was.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: Truly a Nominee realty trust, which means the property that
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: was put in there by Dad and Mom, if brother
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: was listed as the beneficiary from the get go, arguably
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: has been the owner since then, and so to me,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: this was a lifetime gift, not an at death inheritance gift. Okay, Now,
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: having said that, since we know of cases that are
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: out there, tax court cases that exist, what would come
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: to my mind if I was somebody now inheriting this
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: from the brother would be Wait a minute, brother didn't
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: get this during his life, because while he might have
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: received it as a gift, I suspect Mom and Dad
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: continued to live there, never realizing they gave it away
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: and paid all the bills and died living there. The
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: Estate of Gwen is a nineteen seventy six case that says,
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: when you do something like that, you haven't given it away,
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: even though you legally don't own it at all, you
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: have an implied life estate, which is you gave it away,
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: but you continued to enjoy what you gave away. Therefore,
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: twenty thirty six of the code will pull that back
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: into the estate and you'll get a step up in basis.
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: The first thing I want to know if there's a
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: step up in basis for the beneficiary who's now getting
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: it from brother dying, so really wasn't the biggest concern,
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: but I wanted everybody to understand what's going on behind
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: the scenes. I think the bigger concern is brother went
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: into the nursing home and died and died and was
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: on medicaid. Yeah, so assuming they knew brother owned the
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: house through this Nominee realty trust, if he was single,
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: he could still have gotten on medicaid, but they would
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: have probably put a lean on it because this is
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: going to be included in his estate now he's the owner,
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: so they would have an death lean to reimburse themselves.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: That's what they call a state recovery, reimburse themselves for
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: the money spent on behalf of the brother.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Because this house will go through probate, right, I think
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: it does. Didn't do the deed work, so there is
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: no trust.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's really just sitting in his name anyway,
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: as a beneficiary of a nominee realty trust.
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: So, so I do believe there's likelihood that there'll be
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: a lean placed on this property and will they take
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: the whole house. They'll go to the beneficiary and say, look,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: you have options. You know, if the house is worth
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: a million dollars and we owe two hundred thousand.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Go get a mortgage, and that's for whatever care they
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: provided him while he was on Medicaid.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Correct, the lean would be of that.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: And remember the benefit here is he'd be on Medicaid,
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: so the Medicaid rate, the Medicaid rate is lower then,
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: so the lean might be a little less. But yes,
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: they'll either say sell it, pay us and take the
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: balance of the money, or they'll say, you know, get
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: a mortgage, pay us, and you can keep the house.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: You don't care what you do, just pay the lean,
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: pay the lien. Yeah, so I think that's where you're at.
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: But folks, this was a great question because it deals
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: with nomine realty trusts. That's one of the guides, and
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: that's one of the trusts in the Top seven Estate
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: Planning Trust Guide we're given away for the end of
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: the month eight six six eight four eight five six
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: nine nine or Legal exchange show dot com.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with the
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolearn. If you have a
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: question you would like to ask him, visit his website
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange show dot com and click on the ask
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Todd tab. Maybe I'll be able to read your question
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: on the air and stop you from being one of
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: his next real life stories. I'm Susan Power as a
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be back
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: with more after this quick break on the Legal Exchange
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutski.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: A trust isn't just a document. It's a powerful tool
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: that can help protect your assets from the nursing home
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: and even reduce or eliminate a state taxes. Cushing and
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Dolan are leaders in elder law, estate planning and asset protection.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: This month, they're offering a free guide called Demistifying the
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Top seven estate Planning Trusts. This guide breaks down the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: most common types of trusts, explains the pros and cons
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: of each, and helps you understand which might be write
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: for you and your family. Trust come with different rules, benefits,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: and tax treatment, and choosing the wrong one could cost you.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Learning the differences now can help you make smarter decisions
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: for your future and your loved ones. Trusts are a
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: critical part of any well designed estate plan, but they
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: can be complex. Don't guess your way through it. Get
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the facts first. Call Cushing and Dolan now at eight
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: sixty six, eight four, eight five six nine nine to
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: request your free copy, or visit Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in the views exprest Or Sole,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: leaders of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan ind or
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you're offering legal investment services. Cushing
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: and Dolin and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: and are not affiliated.
• 38:37
  Speaker 6: Artificial intelligence is changing the way companies invest in how
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: markets move. Add to that global trends like international outperformance,
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: a weakening dollar, and shifting bond yields, and you've got
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: a complex landscape for investors. This is Mike Armstrong from
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: the Armstrong Advisory Group and we're hosting two financial seminars
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: this fall to help you understand what it all means.
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: Join us at Margaritaville Resort, Cape cod on October ninth,
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: or at the showcase Super Lucks and Chestnut Hill on
• 39:03
  Speaker 6: October sixteenth. Call eight hundred three nine three four zero
• 39:06
  Speaker 6: zero one to reserve your seat. We'll talk about how
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: diversification and preparation may help you navigate uncertainty. So your
• 39:13
  Speaker 6: plan is ready, don't miss this chance. To get a
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: clearer picture of your financial future, register today by calling
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: eight hundred three nine three four zero zero one. We're
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: on our website Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: advisory services. The holidays are just around the corner, so
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: now is the time to plan your winter escape. Trade
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: in the cold for sunshine, sea breezes and island vibes
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: in the US Virgin Islands, America's Caribbean paradise. Whether it's
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: a romantic retreat, a family celebration, or a solo recharge
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: before the new year, Saint Croix, Saint Thomas and Ain't
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: John offer the ultimate warm weather getaway. Lounge on sun
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: drenched beaches, explore vibrant culture and celebrate the holiday's island style.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: No passport, no hassle, just warm weather, clear blue water
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and unforgettable memories. This is where the stress melts away
• 40:18
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• 40:21
  Speaker 1: of the Islands. Go to visit USVII dot com and
• 40:24
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• 40:29
  Speaker 1: US Virgin Islands, America's Caribbean paradise. Your holiday escape starts
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: here at visit USVII dot com. Your tune to the
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If you are a loved
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: one needs a nursing homestay, call Todd right now at
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: eight sixty six eight four eight five six ninet nine
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: and let him make sure your assets are protected. That's
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Or visit him online at Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So Todd, I was chatting with a
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: client this week and they've done no estate planning and
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: they're headed your way. But I wanted to just kind
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: of put their situation out there because they have a
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: lot of moving parts and kind of get your feedback
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: on what you would what you think you would recommend
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: for them.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: You want some free legal advice. I want some free
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: legal advice.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I told them I know a guy okay that I
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: can get them some free legal advice. So husband, wife's
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: seventy sixty eight, good health, very active. They have a
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: home worth about eight hundred thousand. They both have iras.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: His is a little more five hundred for him, around
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: four hundred for her. Joint brokerage about five hundred. They
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: get about three hundred in the bank, and they all
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: also have They were sold long ago a two million
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: dollar second to die life insurance policy. It's all paid up,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: so they've kept it.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: So in the two point five estate includes the two
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: million dollar no second to die policy or not.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: So no, So they're net worth excluding excluding excluding the
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: insurance is two and a half million, and then they
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: have the life insurance on top of that, so really
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: it's four and a half million total because.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: The life insurance is owned by them, not in any
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: kind of a trust.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: They own everything jointly individually with the spouse's beneficiaries. The
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: kids is the backup, so that's that's kind of the
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: assets here are their concerns. Her mom was in the
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: nursing home for a really long time, like more than
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: ten years. She saw her mother's assets get to bleeding completely.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: They have three kids. Her son is very, very bad
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: with money, spends right through it, gets taken advantage of
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: They have four grandkids.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: They want to leave some money to them, and they
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: one of their daughters is in a long, horrible divorce battle.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Is there any other kind right, Well, it's not amicable
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: at all, So it's been dragged on an awful lot.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: So they have a lot of concerns for them. It
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: really is the family behind the estate plan. But there's
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: real money here in terms of estate taxes and things
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: that can be done.
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, this is a tough one because their age
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: obviously makes me think about nursing home planning. But you know,
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: four and a half million, I know two of it
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: doesn't exist until they're both gone, right, So it's it's
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: really only two and a half.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: He is adamant that she does not want to spend
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: their kids' inheritance on the nursing home because she saw
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: her inheritance evaporate with her mother's nursing homestay, so it's
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: a big concern for her.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: So when you look at the two and a half million,
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: that's what you have to look at first, because remember
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: the other two million doesn't really exist. First thing, if
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: nursing homes on their list, then we're going to have
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: to talk about irrevocable.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: So we already picked the trust.
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it would be irrevocable, and we would need two,
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: one for each of them, because we're well over the
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: well combined, they're over the four million, and we need
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: the two trusts to shelter two million each.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: On the face, that's for.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: The Massachusetts exemption Massachusetts, I'm not too worried about federal
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: for them. However, there's nine hundred thousand of the two
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: and a half million that's sitting in an IRA that
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: I cannot protect from a nursing home.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: In advance.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: They are spending that down. They take out I would
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: say they take out at least fifty grand a year.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: They take money monthly, so they are spending that down somewhat,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: and they're relatively young at this point.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Very helpful.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: So then what we would need to do is we
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: would take the house and put it into the irrevocable
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: trust and split it. The joint investment account would definitely
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: go into the irrevocable trust that we'd split it. Now
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: we've got some money in there, and I may end
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: up putting five hundred thousand into one trust because I
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: got to talk about the life insurance policy in a minute,
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: and then put some of the three hundred in the
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: other trust and let them live off the IRA money first,
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: like you said. So that would be That would be
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: the setup, folks. Now, remember these are irrevocable trusts. Let
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: me just take them inute and tell you about the guide.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: Because the top seven estate planning trusts include this very
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: irrevocable Medicaid trust. It also includes irrevocable life insurance trust,
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: which we're going to have to talk about in this
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: in this fact pattern as well. They're in there. Yes,
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: first to die and second to die varieties. You didn't
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: even realize there's so many kinds. There's nomine realty trusts,
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: there's Pool Trust, special needs trust for children. Folks, if
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: you haven't done your planning, this is going to help
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: you figure out which one is right for you. Top
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: seven estate planning trusts end of the month, last Chance
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: to get it eight six six eight four eight five
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com again
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: eight sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: What are we doing here toalk?
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: This is so complicated, You're you're basically when you're talking
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: about the home, the brokerage account in the bank, those
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: two separate are evocable trusts.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: We're dividing those assets.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Those assets, but that insurance policy is gonna give them
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: a taxable.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Estate, right, Yeah, that insurance policy is not in those trusts. Yeah,
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: I can't.
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm gonna explain why I can't. Insurance policies
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: can go into trusts, but not medicaid irrevocable income only trusts.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Now, let me explain why.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: So, first we put the house the money, and I
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: can say I'd probably put the house, you know, in
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: both trusts. I'd probably put the five hundred thousand in
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: one trust, a portion of the one fifty, a portion
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: of the bank account at least one fifty in the
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: other trust. So now I've got probate avoidance, I've got
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: the five year clocks started for medicaid, and I've sheltered
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: assets for a state taxes. And my question is what
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: do I now do with the two million dollars second
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: to die policy. I can't put that directly into one
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: of the trusts because if I do, and we pay
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: premiums every time we pay a premium on a policy
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: that we now no longer own, it would be taxable.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Oh but you said this one's paid up. This one
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: is paid up. Let me I'll complete the thought this
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: for people listening.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: So if it's not paid up, what I what I
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: struggled to do here is I said, since I can't
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: put it if it was not paid up in there,
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: because we've got to pay the premiums. It's five year
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: waiting periods. I noticed I put five hundred thousand dollars
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: into one. You could use the money that's in the
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: trust to pay the premiums. So that would be a
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: way to do it, and that way you're not putting
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: new money in to pay the premiums all the time.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: And that way you could then protect that from the
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: nursing home. Or you could set up a separate irrevocable
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: life insurance trust. And that's what I'm going to talk
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: about here. Since this one is paid up in full
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: and having this meaning I don't need to make any
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: premium payments, and I want to do nursing home planning,
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: which is rare that you do nursing home planning when
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: you have somebody with second to die insurance doesn't happen
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: that often. So in this case, because that's going to
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: put them over the four million dollar number, if I
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: don't get it out of their estate for state tax purposes,
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: I might suggest getting it out so we can eliminate
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: the mass tax now and even in future growth.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: They're in good health, they could live another fifteen years.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: Those will grow.
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: Right, So I want to get this asset. They're two
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: and a half million. I want to let grow and
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: not worry about death taxes.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: How do I do it?
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: I set up a second to die irrevocable life insurance trust,
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: and there are many kinds. This is a second to
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: die variety. We then would change not only the beneficiary Susan,
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: but the owner of that policy to that irrevocable life
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: insurance trust. It's a completed gift of what the cash
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: surrender value. So whatever the cash surrender value is not
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: two million dollars death benefit, just the cash surrender value,
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: transfer it in. There's going to be no gift taxes.
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: I'm sure it's small. And then you make and then
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: you don't have to do anything because the premiums are
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: already paid already all paid up. So once I put
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: that in there, now, if I live three years from
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: the day I transfer it, not to be confused with
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: the five year medicaid waiting period. If I live three
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: years after I transfer that to the Irrevocable Life Insurance
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: Trust and then die, the two million dollars that flows
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: into that earra Vocable Life Insurance Trust will be estate
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: and income tax free, federal and state beautiful, Yeah, reducing
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: the size of their estate, allowing the irrevocable Medicaid Trust
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: that we put together to eliminate the mass estate tax
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: protected from the nursing home. So that's really the way
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: to go, and it'll create a five year waiting period.
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: But at the same time we created it with the
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: medicaid trusts. It's a home run, folks. A lot going
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: on in that fact pattern susan, but we can help them,
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: and this guide can help you get started. Top seven
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: estate planning trusts. End of the month, folks, call and
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: get it. Eight six, six, eight, four, eight, five, six,
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: nine to nine.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Todd Letsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us today and we'll be
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: back again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Leutske.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: A trust isn't just a document. It's a powerful tool
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: that can help protect your assets from the nursing home
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: and even reduce or eliminate a state taxes. Cushing and
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Dolan are leaders in elder law, estate planning, and asset protection.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: This month, they're offering a free guide called Dmistifying the
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Top seven estate Planning Trusts. This guide breaks down the
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: most common types of trusts, explains the pros and cons
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: of each, and helps you understand which might be right
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: for you and your family. Trust come with different rules, benefits,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: and tax treatment, and choosing the wrong one could cost you.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Learning the differences now can help you make smarter decisions
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: for your future and your loved ones. Trusts are a
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: critical part of any well designed estate plan, but they
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: can be complex. Don't guess your way through it. Get
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: the facts first. Call Cushing and Dolan now at eight
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: sixty six eight four eight five six ninety nine to
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: request your free copy, or visit Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: The proceeding's paid for in the views express or sole
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: leaders of Cushing and Dolin, Cushing and Dolan ind or
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you're offering legal or investment services.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolin and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: other in are not affiliated.
• 51:59
  Speaker 5: Inflation housing call us in rising interest rates or putting
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: pressure on families everywhere from higher insurance and taxes to
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: volatile markets. Today's economic landscape is changing fast. This is
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. We're hosting two
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: financial seminars this fall, first at Margaritaville Resort, Cape cod
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: on October ninth, and next at the Showcase super Lux
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: and Chestnut Hill on October sixteenth. Call eight hundred three
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: nine three for zero zero one to reserve your spot.
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: We'll discuss how to manage risk, protect your retirement and
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: create a plan that can handle economic ups and downs,
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: whether it's core inflation, market volatility, or policy changes. You'll
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: learn about strategies that may help you plan smarter. Register
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: today by calling eight hundred three nine three for zero
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: zero one or on our website Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: advisory services. The holidays are just around the corner, so
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: now is the time to plan your winter escape. Trade
• 53:06
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