Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / DESPERATE FAMILY SEARCHING FOR MATTHEW, LAST SEEN IN HYUNDAI TUSCAN LEAVING VEGAS, WHO IS HIDING CAR?

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DESPERATE FAMILY SEARCHING FOR MATTHEW, LAST SEEN IN HYUNDAI TUSCAN LEAVING VEGAS, WHO IS HIDING CAR? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a family desperate searching for Matthew.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Last scene in his Hyundai Tucson leaving Vegas. Good evening.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, see, Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Twenty eight year old Matthew Spencer embarked on a cross country.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Moved his family, with whom he shares a deep bond,
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: grew anxious when days.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Passed without word on his whereabouts? Where is Matthew tonight?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: His family desperate, begging you for help with us tonight.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Two very special guests, Kara Spencer that's Matthew's sister, very
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: close and Randy Green, Matthew's cousin, both of them joining
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: us tonight, asking for your help and in that vein.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: The first thing I want to do is give you
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: a tip line. It's the flagstaff PD eight seven seven
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: fourteen fourteen repeat nine two eight seven seven four fourteen fourteen.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Look at Matthew. Don't look away. Look at Matthew. His
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: disappearance has torn apart in the lives of everyone in
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: his family. Where is he? Can we bring him home?
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Straight out to his sister Randy. Randy explain to me
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: what was happening in the days leading up to Matthew
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: seemingly just dropping into thin air.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's exactly how it was.
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: Everything was very normal, Like Kara was saying, he had
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: talked to his older sister and her they were through
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: a messenger and it wasn't like an actual phone call
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: because he said he didn't have enough you know service.
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: He was in a dead zone area and he everything
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: was fine. He asked them how dinner was going. He
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: talked to his other sister, let her know that she was,
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: you know, he was okay, he was driving, and you.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Know, that was it.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Joining us in addition to Matthew's family, an All Star
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: panel straight out to Evan Short joining US Director Search
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Operations for Missing an America network who is actually involved
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: in the search for Matthew Spencer. Evan, what do you
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: note as we go to air tonight.
• 2:23
  Speaker 6: Well, there was a lot of search that we conducted,
• 2:29
  Speaker 6: following the steps in the data that was received within
• 2:33
  Speaker 6: the Google account that the searches and corresponding with the
• 2:36
  Speaker 6: information we received from law enforcement, the flat cameras in Flagstaff,
• 2:43
  Speaker 6: Pingdom And we also confirmed that with his Google search
• 2:47
  Speaker 6: data that matched up with that.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: You have been conducting an extensive search. Evan, how many
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: people are looking for Matthew.
• 2:57
  Speaker 7: Well, we have.
• 2:59
  Speaker 6: Myself, my wife, who's my business partner in the searches.
• 3:02
  Speaker 6: We've had a couple of volunteers that were shown up
• 3:07
  Speaker 6: with the searches from the local area.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: This must be excruciating for the family. Sidney Sumner, what
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: do we know, Sydney Crime Story's investigative reporter about his
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: initial disappearance. Where was he, where was he headed and why?
• 3:24
  Speaker 8: Well, Matthew was headed from Vegas to a new home
• 3:28
  Speaker 8: in Houston, Texas.
• 3:29
  Speaker 9: That was his destination. And we know that.
• 3:32
  Speaker 8: Matthew left Vegas on August the fourth. He traveled through
• 3:36
  Speaker 8: Arizona and then he told his sisters he made it
• 3:40
  Speaker 8: to New Mexico. But with cameras, we know that he
• 3:45
  Speaker 8: only made it into Arizona. There were no cameras capturing
• 3:49
  Speaker 8: him going into New Mexico as far as we know.
• 3:52
  Speaker 8: So we know that this camera captured Matthew going into Flagstaff, Arizona.
• 3:58
  Speaker 8: And then in the next two two days they were
• 4:01
  Speaker 8: able to use his Google account to track his location
• 4:04
  Speaker 8: on and off, so that last no location. On August sixth,
• 4:09
  Speaker 8: at eleven forty two PM is somewhere between Williams and Belmont, Arizona,
• 4:15
  Speaker 8: and this is just a little bit west of Flagstaff.
• 4:19
  Speaker 8: So we made it going east through Flagstaff and then
• 4:22
  Speaker 8: for some reason decided to track backtrack a little bit
• 4:26
  Speaker 8: and we're now in between Belmont and Williams off of
• 4:30
  Speaker 8: B forty Rayby.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: You were recounting what led up to the realization that
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Matthew had seemingly vanished into thin air, and you said,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: that was it, okay, what happened?
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: Then they thought, well, maybe it's just because he doesn't
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: have any service and he's just one of those people.
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: If he stops and he sees something, he's going to
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: take the scenic rout. He's going to try to look
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: around see what he can find and things like that.
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: And so they gave it a few days. But after
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: that you start to get a little worried because at
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: that point, this is the long anybody's gone without talking
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: to him ever.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: So got it. He moved on from Vegas and Saunders, Arizona.
• 5:07
  Speaker 10: But we think that he was lost, maybe because that
• 5:13
  Speaker 10: he never made it into New Mexico, because there's no cameras,
• 5:18
  Speaker 10: no nothing saying that he even crossed the broad border
• 5:21
  Speaker 10: going into there, and from his Google searches, can you.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Say no cameras, what do you mean.
• 5:28
  Speaker 10: Like flock cameras or highway cameras. They checked a system
• 5:33
  Speaker 10: called Vigilant, and they checked a system called flock. So
• 5:37
  Speaker 10: there's no nothing showing him after the fifth in any
• 5:43
  Speaker 10: other states in Arizona, and on his Google searches on
• 5:46
  Speaker 10: the fifth, sixth, and seventh only show him in Arizona,
• 5:51
  Speaker 10: never making it into New Mexico.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, So when you said that he communicated he was
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: in the desert or it's of New Mexico. Yeh, then
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: he wasn't, that was what he said.
• 6:05
  Speaker 10: So maybe he thought like he was in like the
• 6:09
  Speaker 10: desert of New Mexico, but he was actually in like
• 6:12
  Speaker 10: the desert of Arizona. Maybe his map was not because
• 6:16
  Speaker 10: he kept starting on Google where am I, and he
• 6:21
  Speaker 10: like he was lost basically.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you mentioned Vigilant, that's by Motorola Solutions. It's
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: a license plate recognition and LPR system. Where did you
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: learn that LA law enforcement had used Vigilant?
• 6:39
  Speaker 10: By the detective, he told me it was about what
• 6:42
  Speaker 10: two weeks ago, Landy. I think he told me that
• 6:45
  Speaker 10: they looked into the.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was two weeks into the search. He had
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: taken a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Randy, what do you know, Well, when.
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: We Las Vegas had to take it at first, they
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: were because that was the last place that he was seeing,
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: So Las Vegas had to take it for first.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: The detective you know, really didn't work fast.
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: But when he did finally let her know, he let
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: her know, Hey, we looked at the cameras. He was
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: caught going into Flagstaff, Arizona, so you have to turn
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: it over to Flagstaff.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: That was on the fifth of August.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Joining us now is Ronda de care. She is a
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: founder of Missing an American network that is a nonprofit
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: organization raising awareness, supporting families and missing people, and facilitating searches.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: And you can find them at Missing in americannetwork dot org. Ronda,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for being with us. Do you hear
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: what Randy is saying? That's Randy Green cousin and Kara
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Spencer sister that there was a jurisdictional problem that when
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Matthew left Vegas. The moment that it came up that
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: he may have crossed over into Arizona, Vegas was like, well,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: you'll have to call them, and I get it. Yeah,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: they're trying to deal with their own missing people in
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Vegas and in Nevada. I understand that, but it seems
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: like there's no communication between jurisdictions. And I've had that problem, Arise.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I can't even count the hundreds of times that that
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: has happened. Here's a good one. You know, Colorado doesn't
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: even know that Bundy's in Florida, Okay, until a murders
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: women in the Coyo House. Now that's a murder example,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: but that's an example of jurisdictions having no idea left
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: hand doesn't know what right hand is doing. Way in. Yeah,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: we come across it just like you. Quite often.
• 8:43
  Speaker 7: They always say it has to be the last person,
• 8:45
  Speaker 7: the last place that somebody was, and that's the police
• 8:49
  Speaker 7: department that needs to do the investigation. So anything that
• 8:52
  Speaker 7: was done prior to them discovering that he was in Flagstaff,
• 8:56
  Speaker 7: really all they did was run the cameras, so all
• 8:59
  Speaker 7: of the other work has been done by flag stuff,
• 9:01
  Speaker 7: and they did pick it up and start investigating as
• 9:04
  Speaker 7: much as they could after they found out he had
• 9:07
  Speaker 7: been seen in Flagstaff.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, both jurisdictions, I fully believe, Emmon Short, you've got
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the Nevada jurisdiction in the Arizona jurisdiction. I don't think
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: that they're trying to push it off on each other.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: But the reality is, Emmon, that's what happened.
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: Yes, there was a handoff from the Nevada police over
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: to the Flagstad police when he was payed through the
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: flat camera and of course finding you GPS coordinates.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, let me confirm, Randy Green. You're saying that we
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: know he made it to Arizona because he turned up
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: on the vigilant system correct.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, which is a tag reader? Now? Who told you
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: that his car turned up on the licensed plate reader?
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: The LPR? Who told you that in Arizona?
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: That was the detective in Las Vegas, Nevada was the
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: one that told her that.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, where else, if anywhere? Guys, you're seeing his vehicle
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: and here's his tag see j M C California Jjoy
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: M mother two two three five, repeat C JM two
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: two three five. All you truckers out there, help me out.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: This is what we're looking for. See JM two two
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: three five. Kara, tell me describe the vehicle as you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: it did have any dents on it. Tell me about the.
• 10:36
  Speaker 8: Car, no dent or anything.
• 10:39
  Speaker 10: It was. It's like a silver based hi Iyanda Tucson.
• 10:44
  Speaker 10: There's like no really like nothing like distinguishing about. It
• 10:49
  Speaker 10: has Washington plate.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: It looks silver. It looks silver to me, a silver
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Tucson c JM two two three five. No dance, no wreckage,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: nothing there. You go take a look, Randy Green, where
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: do you believe he was spotted or his vehicle was
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: spotted or his tag was spotted within Arizona? What part
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: of Arizona?
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: So they said he was going into Flagstaff, Arizona. That's
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: where they caught it. He was like, you know, the
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: road he was traveling on. They caught him going into Flagstaff, Arizona.
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: And that was the last time that any camera had
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: caught him, anyone had seen him.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: That was it to Ronda de Care joining us, the
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: founder of Missing an American Network. And believe me, she's
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: not in it for the money. It's a nonprofit. Ronda.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: We just heard the sister and cousin referring to an
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: lp R. How do they work? What are they?
• 11:55
  Speaker 10: So?
• 11:55
  Speaker 7: They are license plate readers that law enforcement can to
• 12:00
  Speaker 7: look up and see when a license plate has traveled
• 12:03
  Speaker 7: by a camera, and it's very useful when they're trying
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: to locate a missing person. And so in this case,
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: the only they did a search of his license plate
• 12:12
  Speaker 7: and the only place that it has turned out was
• 12:14
  Speaker 7: in Flagstaff, Arizona.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about the license plate readers to
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Sidney Summer, joining US crime stories, investigative reporter, individuals can
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: have them and people can be identified through the license
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  Speaker 1: plate reader. Now, what you get from it is the
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: car registered to the license plate. But then it's just
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: a simple matter of comparing that to the DMV Department
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: of Motor Vehicles and finding out who owns it. Also,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: in addition to LPRs license plate readers, there are LPR
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: cameras that help record when the car goes by, and
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: they're their technology is not hard to understand. Lice's plate
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: readers work by using high speed cameras and they capture
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: images of licensed plates. Then they employ optical character recognition
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: or OCR to convert the plate images in to text.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: They're very common, Sydney Sumner.
• 13:20
  Speaker 8: Absolutely, they're all over the country. This is one of
• 13:23
  Speaker 8: the best ways. We have to track someone who is
• 13:27
  Speaker 8: in a car, and we should be able to tell
• 13:30
  Speaker 8: if a plate has been removed and placed on another vehicle.
• 13:35
  Speaker 9: So you should be able to check.
• 13:36
  Speaker 8: Registry records and find if that plate does pop up,
• 13:41
  Speaker 8: it should be on Matthew Spencer's two thousand and six
• 13:44
  Speaker 8: on day Tucson.
• 13:45
  Speaker 9: But from that image.
• 13:47
  Speaker 8: You can clearly tell whether or not that car is
• 13:50
  Speaker 8: a Tucson.
• 13:51
  Speaker 9: So if the plate has been.
• 13:52
  Speaker 8: Removed and put on another car, we should be able
• 13:55
  Speaker 8: to find that out as well.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Sidney, You're right. They text data that you get from
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the optical. The high speed camera image is compared against databases.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: It's looking for stolen or wanted vehicles. When a match
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: is found, the system alerts. Now you would never know
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: you're passing one. Because the ALPRs are usually mounted on
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: objects like road signs, they can be on police vehicles.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: They operate day and night, in the daylight and the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: night time. They work no matter what the temperature, what
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: the visibility doesn't matter, and they capture those plates and
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: important they get the location, the date, and the time
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: of the skin. So that is going to be invaluable
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: what we know right now. Straight back out to the family.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I'm very curious, Kira, what about in and around the
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: town of Flagstaff as you follow that same route. Wouldn't
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: there be red light cams, business cams. Wouldn't there be
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: something that would pick him up.
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: That's what I thought, And then to have him going in,
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: But then when we got the Google account for him
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: to be going back.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: Out, they don't have anything.
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: So he would have had to go into flag Staff
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: and then come back out of Flagstaff to end up
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: in Williams. So how how they didn't get him anywhere else?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Did?
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: It just doesn't sit right. But I mean, I think
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: at one point the detective did say that sometimes they
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: can't catch all vehicles, and maybe they called him going
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: in they just didn't catch him going the other way.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: But I mean, it wouldn't just be license plate grabbers.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: It would be business sides, it would be red light cams,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: it would be all sorts of security cam capability, not
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: just the one license plate grabber. Now joining me is
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Matthew Mangino, a veteran trial attorney, former Attorney of Lawrence County,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and author of the Executioner's Tool, Crimes, Arrests, Trials Appeals,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: last meals, final words and executions of forty six people
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: in the US. Matt man Gino, thank you for being
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: with us. I cannot impress upon anyone the power of
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the cam. I'm talking about red light cams, security cams,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: doorbell cams, home video, business video, even and I will
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: direct you to the case of missing Connecticut mom of
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: five Jennifer Dolos. Her husband Photos Delos, murdered her and
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: then his mistress helped get rid of evidence caught on camera.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: They were spotted on camera throwing away her bloody bra
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: her bloody clothing, rags, towels soaked in her blood. It
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: was all you know, found in drains all around town
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: to trash out a multiple spots that said. They then
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the Connecticut Police Department. It was pretty amazing. Matthew Manjin
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure you would freak if they was done
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: one of your clients. They cobbled together a video montage
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: showing the husband photos Dulos going along in a borrowed car.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Jennifer's DNA and hairstrand was found in the back. He
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: later replaced the back seat of the borrowed car. That's
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: not unusual, right, and they get him traveling to and
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: they're using doorbell cams, they're using red light cams, they're
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: using surveillance cams from businesses all along going to get
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: the car detailed and cleaned out. He couldn't destroy the
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: car because he had borrowed the car to pen the
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: crime on somebody else. Long story short, they even have
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: a public bus and when the door.
• 17:58
  Speaker 11: Opens to let people on an off, you see photos
• 18:01
  Speaker 11: and photos. You see photos Doulos drive by very quickly.
• 18:04
  Speaker 11: I mean they had his route from a to ze
• 18:09
  Speaker 11: soup to nuts straight out in the ynang On video.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: It was amazing. So what type of cameras would you
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: be looking for in this case? Man Gino?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Well, you're right, Nancy, that was extraordinary police work in
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that case. But I think in this situation investigators may
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: be a disadvantage because this appears to be a two lane.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe more rural road at times.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: We know that they were able to get a plate
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: scan when he went into Flagstaff, but you know, if
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: you look at some of the video that we've seen,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: this isn't a place where there's video cameras on every
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: corner or every intersection, or traffic lights or even businesses
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: that have cameras so that's a bit of a disadvantage.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: You know, I would like to know more about this
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: is you know, why was there uh you know this
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: idea that number one, he thought he was in New
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Mexico and then he may have been turned around. Is
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: there is there any issues with regard to to his
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: health potentially, And also we have the idea that this
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: car had broken down. Where is it? I mean, you know,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: typically you know, you know, someone is is kidnapped or
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: taken from a vehicle, They're not going to come back
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: and get the vehicle. You know, was there was the
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: vehicle toad. There's a lot of unanswered questions here based
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: on what we know at this point.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Then we have Google searches.
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: So Kara had gotten into his Google account. She had
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: gotten into his Google account. She gave it to their
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: older brother and they worked together and they were able
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: to get a location of a timeline, if you will.
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: And so it was from what they did was from
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: the fifth until the seventh. On the seventh, everything stops.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: And that was the screen graps that we had given
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: you all. It shows like why was my car not
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: turning over?
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: Where am I?
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: Things like that, and it was showing that he was
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: in between Williams and Belmont, which is a little bit
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: back from from Flagstaff, so it was going back the
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: other way.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: From Flagstaff.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace to doctor John Delatory joining us.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: He is a renowned psychologist and mediator and he specializes
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: in forensic psychology. He's at resolution fcs dot com, Doctor Delatory.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: This is excruciating for the family. They're like stabbing in
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the dark trying to if you ever woke out in
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the middle of the night and your eyes haven't adjusted
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and you kind of think you know where you are
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: and you're just walking feeling trying to see they only
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: have tidbits. They've got this Google search where he's searching
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: things like where am I, why is my car not
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: turning over? There's a whole other aspect of are these
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: searches real or are they fake? Searches like the one
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: we saw in the case of Gabby Patito where someone
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: well we know who her fiance was, Brian Laundry, faking
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: texts from her to suggest she's still alive. We've seen
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: it even in the Rex Huerman Long Island serial killer
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: suspect calling the victims' families from the victim's phones, suggesting
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: they're still alive. It's horrible, but we don't know these
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: texts are really from or these searches really are Matthew.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: But I see no reason to think that they're not.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: That said, the family is just, you know, feeling their
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: way in the dark. That is horrible for them. They
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: don't have all the pieces.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: And listen, you know, I used to live in Arizona
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: for seven years. I have family in New Mexico. I
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: know this route. I don't know why this is the
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: route he's taken to go to Houston, but I know
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: this route, and there's nothing there there. There are long
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: stretches where there is absolutely nothing there, and if you're
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: not familiar with the area, it is very easy to
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: get lost. And there are some reservations there that you're
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: maybe not allowed to enter into. So there's so much
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: that is going on that may have kind of confused
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Matthew and may have put him in a position where
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: he was making decisions that he didn't have to think
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: to make. And so now his family members are struggling
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: to try to find him when he's probably in a
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: panic mode himself, trying to figure out, how do I
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: get to the next place that I'm supposed.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: To be going.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's been too long, that I should have been
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: someplace else already, and that this isn't working, This route
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: isn't working. There's so much that is happening, and trying
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: to follow in those kinds of footsteps can be excruciatingly
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: painful and saddening because you don't know why someone is
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: making the decisions that the data that we have is
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: leading you.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Towards well Delatoria. You just says something I find very
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: very primitive because to Ronda to care joining us from
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Missing in America network along with Evan short Ronda we
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: it sounds like, oh, he was confused. I don't think
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: he was confused. He was out in the middle of
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: nowhere without signs. I mean, if I were to cross
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: from Georgia to Tennessee all the way up to New York,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: which I have taken the job many many times, unless
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: you see a road sign, you may think you're still
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: in Georgia and not realize you're in Tennessee, or on
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and on. You may be in New York and not
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: realize you've crossed into New Jersey yet unless you are
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: reading the signs, so if he's in the middle of
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the desert, like DELATORI just said, they're a lot of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Indian reservations. They are Indian land you can't get into.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's confused. He's just driving, he's just
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: making his way. I don't like it when people make
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: it sound like he's confused, like he was high on
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: drugs or drinking. There's no evidence of that at all. Yeah,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that's absolutely true.
• 24:19
  Speaker 7: There may be some confusion as to why he said
• 24:21
  Speaker 7: he was in New Mexico when he wasn't. I mean,
• 24:23
  Speaker 7: one of the thought processes is that he just didn't
• 24:27
  Speaker 7: want his family to worry about him.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: But those Google.
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: Searches do go on to show he was searching a
• 24:32
  Speaker 7: lot about the lake areas. He was of fishermen and
• 24:35
  Speaker 7: he loved fish, and so there was Google searches where
• 24:38
  Speaker 7: he was researching the lakes right in that area near
• 24:42
  Speaker 7: Williams in Parker, Arizona. And so one of the theories, one
• 24:46
  Speaker 7: of the things that we have been trying to explore,
• 24:48
  Speaker 7: is if he went looking at those lakes, and so
• 24:51
  Speaker 7: that's where Evan and the team have been searching is
• 24:53
  Speaker 7: around those lake areas.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Randy Ronda is right. He was a nature enthusiast. He
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: loved high key, he loved new places, he loved fishing.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: So if you see maybe a back and forth in
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: his route or a secuitous route, that's not unusual for him, right,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: that was just it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: It was like he was making kind of a circle.
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: I guess you would say he was looking for like
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: fishing places and things like that. That's what we just
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: found out because someone else had gotten to his Google account,
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: they were able to see, you know, a little bit
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: more in depth where he was going.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: But yeah, he just stayed pretty much in that same set.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I don't even say Belmont on this map. So you're
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: saying he gets from Flagstaff.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: Towards it's in between Williams and Flagstaff.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Gotcha, Flagstaff to Williams and then will which is thirty
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: seven minutes, and then from Williams to Belmont is about
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: twenty three minutes back towards flag Staff. So why do
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: you believe he was last in Belmont? So we've talked
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: We I mean, me and Kara talk every day, and
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: we've tried to obviously come to our own conclusions and
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: from what we have gathered ourselves and obviously from the
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: help of others that have been looking with us as well,
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: we think that maybe he.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: Started having car troubles of some problem.
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: He didn't want to worry anybody, so he just kind
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: of turn turned back the other way, maybe going back
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: to his sister's house, trying to make it back that way.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: He stopped.
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: He was looking around, just kind of trying, wait a minute,
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: did you know that in Belmont?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I was checking this out? In Belmont, they have a
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: lot of I mean, if there's anything famous there that
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Patrouce would stop to look at, I would think. You know,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: they've got those natural springs in Belmont. You said something
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: about payl like to go fishing, and Belmont has local
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: springs that a lot of people go to look at.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, two of those.
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: One was dog Dogtown Lake and then the reservoir, and
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: then the other was Shoals I think it's pronounced Shoals Lake.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: So they know for a fact that he was looking
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: at those ones because it was also on his Google
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: a timeline, so he was.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: I think he probably stopped he was having car.
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: Trouble, He didn't want to worry anybody, so he just
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: thought he would get out look around explore a little bit.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: That's just was kind of his nature.
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: So you know, he was looking around, checking things out,
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: maybe would stop to fishially figured out what he was
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: going to do, and then everything just kind of stops
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: from there.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Well, what about those two lakes you mentioned, Shoal Lake
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: and one other were they explored. Is there a place
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: that he would have parked to go fishing anything like that.
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: We're not sure he was able to get a timeline
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: like he's he's doing way more into it than we could.
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: He's the one that got know these locations that he's
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: been going to and he flies a drone around, you know,
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: as much as he can, and he's been looking into
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: those the lake he just did, the Dogtown Lake he
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: just did that one, and then next he'll be moving on.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: To Shoals Lake.
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: We just did a thing where we were asking for
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: volunteers to go out and help because it's so vast that.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: You know, it's it's going to take him a little
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: while to cover it all.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Evan Short, that person doing all the searching would be
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: you tell me about the use of drones and what
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: you know about these two lakes.
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: Yes, we based off of the GPS location of the searches.
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: Fortunately he was saying, you know, directions to Dogtown Lake
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: had showed the directions of his location. We were able
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: to visit each of the locations he did these searches
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: for and do extensive drone searches with the limited equipment
• 28:53
  Speaker 6: that we have do to budget, but we were able
• 28:57
  Speaker 6: to go to each of those locations on the fifth
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: and also in the six around Dogtown Lake and Schultzlake,
• 29:06
  Speaker 6: we were able to eliminate a lot of the areas
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: of where he was at. Unfortunately we weren't able to
• 29:11
  Speaker 6: locate the vehicle. And then on the sixth we would
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: visited the location. It was about four miles east of
• 29:21
  Speaker 6: Schultzlake where the last GPS location, which was the the
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: afternoon of the sixth, and we did a grid search
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: of that area as well.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, when you're using a drone evan, what are
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: you looking for?
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: Well, there's different type of searches for different type of methods,
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: for different type of searches. For this one, it's kind
• 29:47
  Speaker 6: of like a high pass grid, you know, point down
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: the cameras and see if we can locate a vehicle.
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: That's the big object that we're looking for right now.
• 29:56
  Speaker 8: So if we can.
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: Locate the vehicle, that would provide us a more es
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: centralized location for additional on foot surgeon.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I know we've mentioned this was quote out in the
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, but actually, isn't this a long route
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: sixty six where everybody travels?
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: You know another thing, speaking of Belmont, you know the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: population there is very low, around one thousand people. So
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: when we're talking about a town and saying, wow, nobody
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: saw him, because it's a little community like where I
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: grew up, it's very possible nobody saw him if he
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: was there.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: That I had actually talked to.
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: So in the first couple of weeks, Kara and I
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: had called I mean, anybody that you can think of.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: We hopped on TikTok Live.
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: We got every single route that he could have taken,
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: and we deduced it to three routes that.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: He could have taken to get where he was.
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: We took every single city and went googled hospitals, tow
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: truck companies, gas stations, anybody that would hear us. So
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: we called them all and just this last week I
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: called the tow truck company again, just in case there
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: was some kind of you know that maybe they found something.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: And the lady explained to me that, you know, she well,
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: she wanted me to send her a flyer and she said, listen,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: this is a very small place. She's like, it's it's
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: a lot of land, but everybody knows everything. She's like,
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: so I'm going to send this out to all my guys.
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: But you know, if anybody is going to see anything,
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: it's them.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: They are tow truck drivers. They have to go, you know, everywhere.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: And she kind of was saying the same thing.
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: She just didn't understand how the whole car was gone
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: and nobody's seen anything.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another issue. To Matthew's sister, Kara Spencer. It's
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: not just that Hayes disappeared. His car has disappeared too.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: How does that happen?
• 31:50
  Speaker 10: I'm not sure. I think maybe he parked it somewhere
• 31:55
  Speaker 10: at a gas station or a grocery store, and maybe
• 32:00
  Speaker 10: somewhere just nobody can see it and nobody just noticed it.
• 32:05
  Speaker 10: There's a lot of different possibilities that's been running through
• 32:07
  Speaker 10: my mind. Maybe somebody stole it and took the license
• 32:12
  Speaker 10: place off of it. There's a lot of possibilities.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Evan it's short actually searching for Matthew. You were saying
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: that very thing, that it's going to be easier for
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: you to spot a car versus a person. So is
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: that what you're honing in on when you're using your drone?
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: And how are you conducting this search? That's pretty rough
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: terrain in some areas.
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: Well, We've got some unfortunately, we have some experience in
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: this type of searching, so we have equipment vehicles.
• 32:48
  Speaker 9: That can.
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: Drive out in these remote locations. The searching for the
• 32:56
  Speaker 6: drone easy. You can see, it's like a high pass
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: search over through some of the areas. We've actually been
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: able to identify other vehicles that were similar to Matthews,
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: but upon this section it was just like the same
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: make a model, just a different year. Unfortunately, so we
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: be able to locate from a high pass the vehicle
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: and that's really what we're hoping to locate is see
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: what the vehicle is so we can then conduct additional
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: more focus searching in that area.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Guys, we were showing you the actual drone footage Evan
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Shore you and wanted to care from missing an American
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Network are amazing. First of all, your volunteers, you're not
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: getting paid for this. You're seeing the drone footage that
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Evan records and then scours through it looking at it
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: with a fine tooth comb to see if he can
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: spot a person or the vehicle. This is extremely detailed.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. Back to the family, Has he ever disappeared
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: like this, gone for this many days without speaking to you?
• 34:09
  Speaker 10: No? Never, And his last message was how was your
• 34:13
  Speaker 10: dinner and how was your night? And the next day's
• 34:15
  Speaker 10: phone was just off. That's never happened.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Just thinking through everything that you're saying. Would he be
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: wary if someone came up and offered to help him.
• 34:28
  Speaker 10: No, He's had help before when he's ran out of
• 34:32
  Speaker 10: gas or car broke down before when he was driving,
• 34:37
  Speaker 10: people would stop and help him. He want to put
• 34:40
  Speaker 10: a guard up, you know.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: But what's interesting and curious is it's not just him missing.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: The car's gone too. Just like vanished Sidney Sumner Crime Stories,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter. This guy loved nature, He loved hiking, he
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: loved fishing, he loved exploring. In fact, he this trip
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: from Vegas to his new home in Texas and was
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: stopping at intervals. The family knew that to sightsee, to fish,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: to look around. He was an adventurer, hard worker, but
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: he loved his fishing.
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: Right, So.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out did he meet somebody
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: while he was fishing, while he was taking photos? Has
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: he uploaded any of those photos that could tell me anything?
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Remember in the Delphi case where Liberty and Abby actually
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: took a photo of the killer, right, do we know
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Sydney And what can you tell me about his love
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: of fishing and exploring? I mean he factored that into
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: his trip.
• 35:48
  Speaker 8: Yes, well, his family believes that Matthew may have been
• 35:53
  Speaker 8: having some car trouble, may have run into some kind
• 35:56
  Speaker 8: of road bump.
• 35:58
  Speaker 12: Instead of panicking and worrying anyone, he just took some
• 36:02
  Speaker 12: time to maybe explore the area around him, spend some
• 36:06
  Speaker 12: time fishing, get his mind together.
• 36:09
  Speaker 9: Before he made a plan on what to do next.
• 36:12
  Speaker 9: So we know that Matthew loved to fish.
• 36:14
  Speaker 8: There's plenty of photos of him holding absolute whoppers. So
• 36:18
  Speaker 8: this feels like typical behavior. Let me take a step back, relax,
• 36:22
  Speaker 8: and then we'll get ourselves back together and get back
• 36:25
  Speaker 8: on the road.
• 36:26
  Speaker 9: We do know that Matthew was taking photos on his phone.
• 36:30
  Speaker 9: He wasn't posting anything to social media or anything like that.
• 36:34
  Speaker 10: But he was.
• 36:35
  Speaker 8: Scrolling through social media like Instagram and TikTok, just normal
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: behaviors for Matthew. According to Kara.
• 36:42
  Speaker 10: And Randy.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace two doctor John Dellatore joining
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: US licensed psychologist specializing in forensic psychology, Doctor Delatory, this
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: guy was used to traveling, exploring, fishing, camping. He was
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: not wary of someone approaching him offering to help him
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: if his car had broken down. He did those Google
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: searches why won't my car turn over? Why is it
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: making a clicking sound? If those were truly his searches,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: he would not have been he would not have had
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: his tackles up at all.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: And unfortunately, there are some individuals who will take advantage
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: of someone like that, right, you know, even though this
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: is kind of a sparsely populated area of the state,
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: there are so many people that go through you never
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: know who you're going to run into, and so it
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: is certainly possible that's something maybe nefarious happened. I don't
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: think though, that Matthew would have been kind of triggered
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: to be worried about something like that. I think, you know,
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: it seems like this is his calm space to go
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: fishing and to be out nature. It seems like this
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: is a space that he's kind of comfortable in, but
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: that comfortability can also make you more vulnerable.
• 38:07
  Speaker 10: You know.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I'm also curious, Randy about the Google searches. Tell me
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: about the searches and where you believe he was when
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: he was conducting the searches.
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: Evan has been able to go in a little bit
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: more extensively, like he can see the actual coordinates of
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: these searches, and you know, it was just that's what
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: I'm saying. It's right around the same area. But the
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: thing that we don't understand that we just figured out
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: is that it was for it was from the fifth
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: until the seventh, so he was in that same area.
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: So I just don't I don't understand.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: He even said that he.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: Was googling different things like parts for a cat, like
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: a like an excavator.
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: He was googling something about that. He was googling, you know,
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: the things that were going wrong with his car as well.
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: But it just it's hard to put the pieces together
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: because we just don't know it. And you know, Evan
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: is working very hard because he's trying to fit all
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: the pieces together.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: Follow this map that he has created.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: So Evans Short joining us from Missing in America Network, Evan,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: explain what Randy just told us, that you have the
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: coordinates of where he was doing the searches regarding the
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: car not working.
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we have the coordinates of in the timeline of
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: where he was at searching on the sixth of where
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: his two thousand and six Tucson clicking when I turned
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: the pia along turned over. And then also that was
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: earlier in the day, and then later in the day,
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: right around at the same time that they were text
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: messaging care of the sister, he was searching the same thing.
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: And also on the seventh, so that on the sixth
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: we have the GPS coordinates which was off of Green
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: Garland and Perry Road, just the Social sleep and then
• 40:05
  Speaker 6: on the seventh when he searched it. Unfortunately we didn't
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: capture the GPS coordinates of that location.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Joining us the founder of Missing an America Network, Wanda Decare. Heina,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: you guys have managed to find a lot of missing
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: people without the benefit of Google coordinates like you've got
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: in this case. So what is making this case of Matthew,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: what's making it so hard to solve.
• 40:32
  Speaker 7: Because we can't find the car. We can't locate it.
• 40:36
  Speaker 7: We've been out there with the drones. We've been we've
• 40:38
  Speaker 7: had people in the area looking. It's not a highly
• 40:41
  Speaker 7: populated area, and we have to just reach everybody that's
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: out there so they're on the lookout for that vehicle.
• 40:48
  Speaker 7: Because once we find the vehicle, that's gonna answer a
• 40:51
  Speaker 7: lot of questions.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Matthew Mangina, former felony prosecutor, now civil attorney and author. Mangino,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: these coordinates are pretty exact.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Well, they are Nancy, and it would give you an opportunity,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I would assume, to at least reach out to the
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: community or people in the area who may have seen
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: a vehicle broken down alongside the road, may have seen
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: someone working on a vehicle, may have seen this vehicle
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: for an extended period of time sitting there. You know,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: that seems to be more kind of the gum shoe
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: work that a police department would have to do and
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: looking for a missing person. I mean, these things, just
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: what we know just doesn't seem to add up. You know,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: being in the flagstaff, you know, doubling back, you know,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: having a car broke down and then just vanishing the
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: person Spencer and his vehicle. There's a lot we don't know,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: and we have to try to connect those dogs if
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: we're ever going to.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Find You're right, man, Gina. Doctor John Delatorre, forensic psychologist.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing, delatory routine evidence. I don't mean typical
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: routine evidence. I mean evidence off routine. He was always
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: in touch with his sister and cousin all the time.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: They would text or speak multiple times a day, and
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: then suddenly his routine changed. There's nothing good about that, No,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: not at all.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: I mean he's even checking in to see how their
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: day was and how dinner was. And then we get
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: messages about him being in the deserts of New Mexico
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: and in cloud Craft, which is a completely different area
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: than where he was last seen.
• 42:36
  Speaker 7: Right, there's just so.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Much weirdness that's going on. I think that's what's the
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: confusing element to it, Right, the routine that he would
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: normally just kind of check in even if he found it,
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: he would find a way to get a message out.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: I think that's the key that the family is going through,
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: is that he would find a way to get a
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: message to them, but he hasn't yet, and that's what's
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: sparking the fear and the anxiety of the worst thoughts
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: that they could have to happen to their family member.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: That photo that we're showing of him with a big
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: smile and the flower behind his ear, This guy such
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: a happy, happy spirit, just loved his family, loved the
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: world around him, headed to a new job and a
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: new home in Texas and then just suddenly vanishes. Uh huh,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: it didn't happen like that. Even if he vanished, what
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: about his car straight back out to sister and cousin.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: It's hard to put the pieces together because we just
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: don't know it.
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: And you know, Evan is working very hard because he's
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: trying to fit all the pieces together. Follow this map
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: that he has created, and you know, he stops in
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: these places, like one of the places that he stopped
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: in there was actually like a little makeshift tpee kind
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: of thing with a little fire pit.
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: But we don't know if maybe Matthew just stumbled upon
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: that or if he made it. And in one of
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: the other places the coordinates thatid he got there was
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: just nothing there.
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: It didn't look like anybody had been there, so it
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: just the unknown is what's crazy about it.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I'll say, what was the content of the search? What
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: was he saying?
• 44:18
  Speaker 10: Again?
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: It was well, the things that we had sent you,
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: like the turning over his car wouldn't turnover, things like that.
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: But he was also searching for the Dogtown Reservoir, the
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: Shoals Lake, and then he was also googling something about
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: an excavator. Just regular things. He was on his phont
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: like the camera part of his phone taking pictures. I
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: think he was on TikTok on Instagram. So he was
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: just doing normal things.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And the last time you have evidence of him is
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: August six, correct, yes, ma'am. What is your message to
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: him tonight?
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: And that we love you and if he ever does
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: see this, we just want you to come home. We
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: want to bring you home in any way that we can.
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: I don't know what's happened.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: But I just know that everybody loves you and we
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: miss you and we just want you to come home.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Kara Spencer, what is your message to your twin brother tonight?
• 45:21
  Speaker 10: I just hope that you're safe out there wherever you are,
• 45:25
  Speaker 10: and happy birthday.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: What is your birthday going to be like? This year
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: without him.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Very hard.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Do you believe he would get in touch with you
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: if he could.
• 45:38
  Speaker 10: Yes, we lost our mom about eleven years ago, so
• 45:42
  Speaker 10: we were We've been very close.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Please look at the photo of Matthew. Look at Matthew.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Matthew's
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: whereabouts or if you think you saw his vehicle, please
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: dial nine two eight seven seven four one four one
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: four repeat nine two eight seven seven four one four
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: one four. I want to thank the Missing in America
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Network tonight to them being on with us, also for
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: all the work they do every day, every night trying
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: to bring missing people home to their families. Now we
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Jacob Sovereign Richardon County Sheriffs,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: South Carolina, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: a grieving sister. Ali American hero Deputy Sheriff Jacob Sovereign
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off good bye friend.