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Transcript

Jesus at a Pharisee’s House · The Grove Church

• 0:05
  Charlie Loften: The questions we wrestle with as Christians about who God is, how do we live out our faith, what is the Bible, what is the truth of the Bible, what are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to live? There are really big, deep questions that we ask each other, that we ask God, that we wrestle with ourselves. And that's why the Cultivate podcast exists, to help us go deeper in our understanding of who God is, his word, and the way that he's called us to live. Everyone, welcome to the Cultivate Podcast with The Grove Church.
• 0:39
  I'm here with
• 0:41
  Abigail Boone: Bagel, not DJ today.
• 0:43
  Charlie Loften: Oh, oh, yeah. That's right. That's right. Last week, you had the you have for several for several weeks, you had those things.
• 0:48
  Abigail Boone: Four weeks in a row.
• 0:49
  Charlie Loften: Now you're just regular Bagel Boone. Yeah. I guess I just went straight to width and didn't say who I was. I'm Charlie.
• 0:54
  Abigail Boone: Yes.
• 0:54
  Charlie Loften: Charlie. I'm really pastor at The Grove, and you are podcast producer.
• 0:58
  Abigail Boone: Thank you. The headphones will be back next time.
• 1:01
  Charlie Loften: Were is that why you just say she's off off camera? You said you were a terrible podcast producer exclusively because you forgot your
• 1:08
  Abigail Boone: correct
• 1:08
  Charlie Loften: extra long for your
• 1:11
  Abigail Boone: mainly commenting that How many times do I come here and tell you like shoot I forgot X Y and Z?
• 1:19
  Charlie Loften: You're not a detail oriented person.
• 1:21
  Abigail Boone: I'm not right. Charlie sings my praises, but there's always something before that happens.
• 1:27
  Charlie Loften: There's always a sense of like, hey, we're going to meet it too. And I'm like, okay,
• 1:31
  Abigail Boone: I'll need a two to anyways, it'd be better if I had kids to blame it on, but this is me.
• 1:40
  Charlie Loften: I think kids would focus you more
• 1:42
  Abigail Boone: you think.
• 1:43
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, like I have this. I have these other chaotic thing. Would force you into a more organized system. That is not me saying you should get you some kids. Nah, there's an order in this.
• 1:54
  Abigail Boone: There is an order and we're nowhere near it. Well, I'm not trying to
• 1:59
  Charlie Loften: scratch at that wound or anything, but I'm just, know, I'm just saying.
• 2:02
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, I'll try and I'll try and improve my timeliness, but that's been thirty years going and it hasn't happened yet.
• 2:09
  Charlie Loften: Things are these are deeply entrenched issues. Yes.
• 2:12
  Abigail Boone: Yes.
• 2:12
  Charlie Loften: So we are now you think was not going to say we're just months into
• 2:17
  Abigail Boone: we are
• 2:20
  Charlie Loften: a series in the parables
• 2:21
  Abigail Boone: or about the
• 2:22
  Charlie Loften: following a year long.
• 2:25
  Abigail Boone: No more more than a year than a year.
• 2:27
  Charlie Loften: Yes. Do you like that? Which I know with sermon series like you say if you can make it at least six weeks. That's really good. Yes.
• 2:35
  What is a good podcast series length for you
• 2:40
  Abigail Boone: when I'm listening to one
• 2:41
  Charlie Loften: now or when I'm producing one particular one,
• 2:45
  Abigail Boone: you know, I would prefer the series because I think it's more fun to connect whenever we're sending out promo materials or like social posts and stuff like that to have like a you're watching a bunch of stuff back to back about the same topic. I find it fun. Now, if you find a really boring topic to me, I might say otherwise
• 3:05
  Charlie Loften: because he could he would have done the top 10 best parables most controversial way.
• 3:11
  Abigail Boone: Could do the putting it that way makes me go really back it in on. Like long ones. Okay, mainly because it'd be like well, surely there's more to talk about than just
• 3:22
  Charlie Loften: 10 because we were talking about I think we've talked about it. We talked about that. We want to do church history.
• 3:27
  Abigail Boone: That one needs to be about that with them at least two years long.
• 3:30
  Charlie Loften: Well, so I'm saying is like, well, you could my mind is like the top 10 most influential people the 10 most influential events, like you could do a church history podcast and that just be your podcast lasted for Infinity.
• 3:43
  Abigail Boone: Yes, you
• 3:44
  Charlie Loften: could right.
• 3:44
  Abigail Boone: Mean, so we got to cut it off.
• 3:46
  Charlie Loften: Gotta cut it off.
• 3:47
  Abigail Boone: This is our nineteenth one. I think.
• 3:49
  Charlie Loften: Okay.
• 3:50
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, 19. I know
• 3:51
  Charlie Loften: that's a lot.
• 3:52
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, you knew there was even 19 variables.
• 3:54
  Charlie Loften: I think I might have, I might have known that. All right. So we are now we kind of talked about this before we're now kind of into these parables that are not they're not the they're not the bangers. Sure. And I think a lot of them are the ones that they're some of the earlier ones that we're looking at are like they're well known and maybe they're kind of confusing to understand but the points are like, oh, okay.
• 4:21
  I mean, that's that's that's not contrary. It's not controversial that, you know, be nice to your neighbor, right?
• 4:27
  Abigail Boone: Except your son back home.
• 4:30
  Charlie Loften: Loves you. I mean, they're kind of they're kind of deep. Now we're in the kind of these ones that are I think are a lot more straightforward. But I've even as I was reviewing some of like I walked away a little wounded. Right?
• 4:42
  Like like Al like you could have you could have you could have not you could have not said that sure like hey, you know, you should know, we should know that God loves you. You need, you know, the parable of the talents. Should you should work hard. God's given you something.
• 4:55
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, don't build your house on the rock.
• 4:58
  Charlie Loften: To what destruction least that one up, but even that like what like the big application point Abigail, you should listen to what Jesus says and obey and I'm like,
• 5:06
  Abigail Boone: yeah, yeah, pretty universally agreeable.
• 5:11
  Charlie Loften: This is this is gonna hurt a little tough. Alright, so let's go to start with the setup here. Luke chapter 14, and start in verse one. One Sabbath when Jesus went to eat in the house of a prominent Pharisee, he was being carefully watched. Let's just stop right there.
• 5:25
  I mean, that's it. That's a really good setup right there.
• 5:28
  Abigail Boone: Is being carefully watched.
• 5:29
  Charlie Loften: He is being carefully watched. He is at the house of a Pharisee who we know they're not they don't like him. And even amongst me that that's obvious. If they if you just said that he's in the house of a Pharisee, you'd be like, okay, but this is this is going to be tense.
• 5:46
  Abigail Boone: This is chapter 14. So is this like we're adding we're
• 5:49
  Charlie Loften: just we're adding a layer. Yeah, just like he is being carefully watched
• 5:53
  Abigail Boone: and he's aware there, but this is chapter 14. So this is like far into his ministry. So they're like, yeah, we know this dude and we don't like him.
• 6:03
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. I mean, it is the animosity is established at this point.
• 6:07
  Abigail Boone: Okay.
• 6:08
  Charlie Loften: There in front of him was a man suffering from abnormal swelling of his body. Jesus asked the Pharisees and experts in the law, is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath or not? But they remained silent. So taking hold of him, he healed him and sent him on his way. Then he asked them, if one of you has a child or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull it out?
• 6:33
  And they had nothing to say. So we've not gotten to the parable yet, by the way, not about the time falling into the do what?
• 6:40
  Abigail Boone: I would have nothing to say to that too.
• 6:42
  Charlie Loften: Right?
• 6:43
  Abigail Boone: Like, yes, I would.
• 6:45
  Charlie Loften: So there is plenty. There's plenty. Mean, there's plenty to there's plenty to talk about here. If we were just doing a sermon on John, I mean, Luke fourteen, one to six. There's plenty to say here, but we're not to the parable yet.
• 6:56
  Okay, but just kind of I think this is a really good setup.
• 6:59
  Abigail Boone: Okay,
• 7:00
  Charlie Loften: Jesus at a Pharisee's House. They're there. They have a lot of animosity.
• 7:04
  Abigail Boone: They're testing
• 7:04
  Charlie Loften: them right on with that. They're being carefully watched. And Jesus takes the initiative to test them. Usually a lot of these stories are they're poking at him. Well, what about this?
• 7:18
  What do you think about this and try to find some gotcha controversy question. Jesus is the one that initiates the conflict. You're watching me. Okay. I got I got something I would like for you to see.
• 7:30
  Yeah. Here's this guy. He is suffering. I know that according to your laws, it's limited to what you can and can't do on the Sabbath. Is it?
• 7:40
  Is it okay for me to heal them? Yeah. And what are the Pharisees say?
• 7:45
  Abigail Boone: Nothing.
• 7:46
  Charlie Loften: Nothing. So Jesus is in fact better at the trap questions than they are
• 7:52
  Abigail Boone: Trump card.
• 7:53
  Charlie Loften: And but here's the thing. Pharisees are good at recognizing
• 7:59
  Abigail Boone: trap and trap
• 8:00
  Charlie Loften: when they when they recognize you mean they don't they can't get out of it, but they at least recognize where they can they recognize it. And so he does heal him and send him on his way and then said if you had a child fall in a ditch, would you get them out?
• 8:16
  Abigail Boone: A 100%. And what do they say nothing?
• 8:20
  Charlie Loften: Nothing. Because again, they as people who it feels like it is their job at least scoring what it feels like it for us in the narratives like it's their full time job try to trap Jesus. Yeah, like game represent respects game. Sure. Right.
• 8:36
  That's a great question for which us. There's no answer. Yeah,
• 8:42
  Abigail Boone: because we would look stupid if we tried to, right?
• 8:45
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. Well, I mean technically, but it's just easier to just not say anything. Yeah. And so that's where we find ourselves. So they are now they're trying to examine Jesus closely, but rather than I mean, he's on the again, maybe all sorts of sports metaphors here, right?
• 9:06
  I mean, he's it's an away game for Jesus.
• 9:09
  Abigail Boone: Okay,
• 9:10
  Charlie Loften: right? I mean, he's at their house. They're watching him, but he came out swinging.
• 9:16
  Abigail Boone: Yeah,
• 9:16
  Charlie Loften: he's he's taken the early lead in the series here and at the away game. And that's where we are. And that's where we continue on. That's it's a tense situation. He's at their house.
• 9:27
  They're watching him closely, but he is the one that's taking the initiative. He's not waiting to respond to whatever nonsense they Now come up we get to the parable, verse seven. When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable. When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, give this person your seat.
• 9:59
  Then humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. But when you are invited, take the lowest place so that when your host comes, he will say to you, friend, move up to a better place. Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
• 10:25
  Abigail Boone: That seems like proper party etiquette. Right? That's my first read on it. I'm like, yeah, but I don't know their cultural etiquette, I guess.
• 10:37
  Charlie Loften: Well, I mean, let me just imagine. I mean, here here it is for us. I mean, it's like you're you're at a wedding. You know, and that's something they're assigning tables. If what if they weren't assigning tables?
• 10:51
  Yeah, right. Where would you say where would you want to? Where would you want to sit
• 10:56
  Abigail Boone: Close to the bride and
• 10:56
  Charlie Loften: groom, especially if your perception is one I'm important and to were close. I and I want to take the lead and showing that yeah, some of us are just backroom back row back corner.
• 11:13
  Abigail Boone: Sure. Farthest away courtesy invite.
• 11:15
  Charlie Loften: No, I mean, I'm even if I am occurred. Even if I'm not I'm trying to sit in the back
• 11:20
  Abigail Boone: no matter what I'm
• 11:21
  Charlie Loften: not I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be in the middle of it.
• 11:24
  Abigail Boone: I'm good.
• 11:25
  Charlie Loften: What am am I trying to do?
• 11:26
  Abigail Boone: If all
• 11:27
  Charlie Loften: of your friends are sitting up
• 11:33
  Abigail Boone: close? Would you pick sitting with some random My group in the
• 11:37
  Charlie Loften: friends are also back row back table people. That's why they're my friends. We're friends this way. We're not trying to we're not trying to get in the mix of it up, but I get you. I bet I get your point.
• 11:47
  I'm saying that I think differently than this, but I think it for like for you. Think that's that's a really good thing. It's like I want to be I want to be in the place that has the most activity. I want to be in the place that has the most honor where the most things are happening, right? Because go into that thinking about what do I want in this party?
• 12:14
  Abigail Boone: Yeah. Yeah. So it's a very selfish entrance.
• 12:17
  Charlie Loften: And so that's what that's what I'm saying. You're walking into the the banquet and like, where do I want to sit? I want to sit next to the person who was wealthy and powerful enough to have hosted this banquet. I want if something important is going to happen, it is going to happen around them. Yeah.
• 12:37
  And it is important for me to be connected to what's important. And it is also very important that everyone know how important I am. And again, again, the again, the the where you sit at the reception is the same sort of thing. Only do I want to be in the middle of this, but I want everyone to know how close I am to that to them. Yeah, I'm not just some I'm not just some person.
• 13:07
  Yeah, I'm not some friend of the bride I'm their but I'm actually best friend. I may not have been bridesmaid. I'm not bridesmaid. I'm not bridesmaid. Sure.
• 13:16
  I'm not bridesmaid, but I'm like, practically was. Yeah, That's why they want me up here. Yeah. You're just some friend of an aunt or something like I am.
• 13:26
  Abigail Boone: Or you're the distant great aunt.
• 13:29
  Charlie Loften: Right. Yeah. You're just, you're you're you just you're just, nobody I am in fact somebody yeah, and that's and that's the idea here. I I come into a party thinking how is this best for me? I come into it with a very selfish sort of mindset.
• 13:50
  And so but then the parable then makes sense. I mean, practically, practically what he's saying is great. If really what you're concerned about is there's a good chance that I could get humiliated here. Now it becomes a risk reward sort of thing. But it's like but on the other hand, they may just not really care.
• 14:10
  And it's kind of a free for all. And if it's a free for all, I've got the best seat.
• 14:16
  Abigail Boone: When that's what I do at gym back meets.
• 14:20
  Charlie Loften: You sit in reserve seats,
• 14:22
  Abigail Boone: definitely
• 14:22
  Charlie Loften: see if they don't show up. Yeah. Yeah, it depends on who I bring with me to a Razorback basketball game.
• 14:29
  Abigail Boone: So my roommate is like beads of sweat running down her face. She's so anxious.
• 14:34
  Charlie Loften: My middle daughter Lauren, she hates it. And so as a service to her, no matter how poorly attended I think the game is going to be, I will take her to buy seats.
• 14:44
  Abigail Boone: Yeah.
• 14:45
  Charlie Loften: And on the one time this year that I took her to a really low level game, and there should have been no issues at all. So you're
• 14:55
  Abigail Boone: saying that Oh, really?
• 14:57
  Charlie Loften: We were sitting in some nicer seats and they were like, these are our seats and she was absolutely mortified and I felt really bad.
• 15:04
  Abigail Boone: In my mind, I'm like, oops.
• 15:06
  Charlie Loften: I'm moving two seats down. I'm looking for better seats. You're gonna kick me out of these seats and I'm gonna go down there.
• 15:13
  Abigail Boone: I'm gonna go these ones.
• 15:14
  Charlie Loften: You could have had, it's almost like, it's
• 15:16
  Abigail Boone: like, I'm
• 15:17
  Charlie Loften: showing you, you could have had these better seats. You're kicking me out for something, now I'm upgrading. Yes. Anyways, I think after that, I was like, Okay, we can just go. We'll go back to where we belong.
• 15:31
  Yes. Right. And so like I'm looking for a privilege that I did not pay for. Yeah, that really is technically not mine. And then again, you have the chance of being humiliated.
• 15:46
  You may get away with it. Yeah. And so what Jesus is saying, is better to come just to come in with a humble mindset. Yeah. For those who Exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves would be exalted.
• 15:59
  Is better for you to come in and sit in the back and possibly you'll be in my head. Are doing up here? Yeah, as opposed to being thinking you're really important and getting moved to the back. Again, what is the risk of starting out in the back sitting in the back? What's the risk
• 16:20
  Abigail Boone: you might be with the weird table
• 16:21
  Charlie Loften: you might. Yeah, you might have to stay there.
• 16:25
  Abigail Boone: That's my worst nightmare.
• 16:27
  Charlie Loften: But what Jesus is saying is the the risk reward flip flop, right? Is the second one is still better because at least you have been humble. Yeah,
• 16:39
  Abigail Boone: and I guess it also shows well, this may be going too far down the line, but if you feel totally secure and your relationship with the person is not going to you're not going to be bothered by where you're seen in relationship to them.
• 16:54
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, I am confident in my for them. I'm confident myself. I know who I am. I'm confident in my relationship with them and where I sit here. Doesn't reflect on that doesn't matter.
• 17:07
  Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that somebody's like, Oh, I thought Abigail, I thought they were close. Yeah, but here she is. In fact, she's sitting next to the bathroom in the back. Yeah.
• 17:21
  But you walk in and you see Charlie sitting way in the back by the bathroom. You like, he did that on purpose. Good for him. Got right to the spot where
• 17:30
  Abigail Boone: he wanted. He's in the back
• 17:31
  Charlie Loften: and he's right by the bathroom. The question is can I see the cake from where I am? That's really well.
• 17:37
  Abigail Boone: Is that important to you?
• 17:39
  Charlie Loften: That is that's why I'm there.
• 17:40
  Abigail Boone: Cake cake, not the cake cutting.
• 17:45
  Charlie Loften: Why is the cake already? Here's the best thing that you can do right now. Weird. So way off here. The best thing you do is have your little ceremony thing where you're kind of cutting, but really the cake is already in the back fully cut.
• 17:58
  So they do their little ceremony and then immediately hundreds of pieces of cake come out. Yeah, that's that's what I'm going for. But eventually I've gotten to this point with with Heidi like sometimes the cake is a little too fancy. Oh, like I'm looking for just a good wedding cake white cake white
• 18:14
  Abigail Boone: do get a really good meal?
• 18:15
  Charlie Loften: Real frosting. Yeah, that I'm like, you know, if it doesn't have to stop at Walmart
• 18:24
  Abigail Boone: because you already have it in your mind. I intended to have ice cream and cake today. I will have
• 18:30
  Charlie Loften: that I'm getting cake. But I mean again, even even in that joking thing that I just said, right? What is the purpose of this reception?
• 18:41
  Abigail Boone: Honor the get
• 18:42
  Charlie Loften: right? I'm sure whatever what am I make sure I'm going to get what I want out of this. Yeah, right? They sometimes I'm like, why we got to have all this fancy food? Why can't we just have normal food and I want cake and I want lots of it.
• 18:55
  I'm like, that's me trying to turn this experience into what I want. Yeah. Why is there fancy food here? Because the bride and the groom wanted the fancy food. Yeah.
• 19:06
  Why are we having fondant cake? Do you have to edit that out?
• 19:13
  Abigail Boone: No, it's an appropriate reaction.
• 19:16
  Charlie Loften: Enough. Fair enough. Like what I, you know, because that is that is what they that is what they wanted and it is in fact about them, not me. Yeah. And and very and very often we walk into someone else's situation and we think is this designed to be what I would want it to be?
• 19:38
  Abigail Boone: Yeah.
• 19:39
  Charlie Loften: And here's where this gets worse because Jesus like, while we're here, I'm just going to bring this up. So now we're a little bit off the parable and now into just straight up teaching
• 19:48
  Abigail Boone: seven
• 19:49
  Charlie Loften: verse 12. Then Jesus said to his host, when you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors. If you do, they may invite you back, and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.
• 20:16
  Abigail Boone: That's just like a little add on.
• 20:17
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, I mean, it's like, I mean, and also just like, like I was I was doing okay. Like, can I feel like I can come to your banquet? I can come to somebody else's banquet and be chill. Yeah. And not and not feel like I got to push my way forward.
• 20:30
  But also it's because I'm not really not by nature a pushy guy anyway, that's not what I'm that's not what I'm trying to do. So I mean, I great job Jesus. Thank you for that parable. That is easy to understand and easy at least for me to apply. Sure.
• 20:46
  And then drops it. And by the way, and when you're the host of the party, don't invite the people that you want to be there.
• 20:53
  Abigail Boone: Don't invite
• 20:54
  Charlie Loften: to Yeah. Have your
• 20:57
  Abigail Boone: Bummer.
• 20:57
  Charlie Loften: And it's like, well, we don't want to misinterpret what Jesus is saying here. Mean, no, he's what he's what he said was actually very straightforward and really does a call for a lot of them don't invite people that can pay you back And like the best I can really do is say when I invite people to my house, I'm really not expecting them to invite me back. I like hosting. So I'm glad to have my friends here. That's the best I can do because I most certainly have never hosted a banquet where random people who I know don't get would never get invited to something.
• 21:35
  I'm going to invite them. Maybe the closest maybe that I've ever done is when we did college ministry, we would have a dinner once a year where we invited all the international students to make sure that every international student at Hendrix, at least at some point during their time in college got to be invited into a American home. Yeah, that's the that's that's the that's the closest I've ever come but that's not that's still not close to what Jesus saying here.
• 22:05
  Abigail Boone: Yeah. Well, it again seems like you're not in this to get clout or position from this. You're just doing it for the sake of you want to invite and host. Yeah, where is the one before was you're not going to grow cloud or anything like that. You're just going to
• 22:23
  Charlie Loften: enjoy in a parable in a parable. Can kind of like I can go a level up and say, don't make it about you be a humble person in all circumstances. Don't don't go into situations trying to exalt yourself, but go into a situation with a humble attitude. Yeah, and I can I can level that I can take that up a level turn into a principle and come up with any number of ways to apply it? Then he switched to just straight teaching that saying here's how you should consider dinners that you host at your house.
• 22:58
  Abigail Boone: You think they like discuss this at all?
• 23:00
  Charlie Loften: What do you mean?
• 23:01
  Abigail Boone: Like he says these two things. Don't know what the next part is. Are we reading further now?
• 23:06
  Charlie Loften: That's
• 23:06
  Abigail Boone: okay. So like this moment ends. Do they just go into like anyway, the weather's great or they like I don't like that idea. I want to sit close. What have they like discussed this in the moment when he's saying these things?
• 23:21
  Charlie Loften: Seems up until this point that they don't really seem to be wanting to interact with him a whole lot. He's just cutting them and they're just sitting there. I mean, next thing that does happen, and we can't just look real quick, verse 15, when one of those at the tables with him heard this, he said to Jesus, blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God, which in old term vernacular, don't hear anybody use this anymore, is what we would call a Jesus juke. I don't know that you can Jesus juke Jesus himself. Okay, right?
• 23:53
  He's talking about how you live right now. Yeah, you should be a better person right now and be like, you know, what's going to be awesome though, bro. Heaven. Right? I mean, it's like and he's like, what are you?
• 24:08
  That's really not currently what we're talking about, right?
• 24:13
  Abigail Boone: But he's trying to flex and be like, yeah, we're the same.
• 24:17
  Charlie Loften: So then what he does that he does do is he talks about a parable that we've already looked at. He says, you know, it's going be great when we when we go to heaven and then it's like, oh, are we talking about heaven now? We're talking about heaven. People like you are gonna miss it are gonna miss it because you're kind of a jerk, which is back to the original point. And you may you're to make all sorts of excuses as to why you weren't willing to really follow the call of God in your life.
• 24:44
  God is calling you right now and you're making excuses just like these people who are coming to the Kings banquet. You're actually going to miss it and the people that you're dissing those are the people that are going to make it.
• 24:54
  Abigail Boone: I feel like they would just be sitting there looking really defeated. This is like, that's
• 25:01
  Charlie Loften: Jesus words. And again, I'm not saying this justifies anything, but you can kind of see like, okay, why are they would kind of walk away from that going? Okay, smarter than us. He's better than us people like him more than us.
• 25:15
  Abigail Boone: Well, and surely also get
• 25:16
  Charlie Loften: rather get rid of him. But
• 25:19
  Abigail Boone: also, I mean, maybe this is me just being really different from their culture. But like everything everything he's saying is like objectively
• 25:29
  Charlie Loften: true, right? It's hard to argue with anything that he has said, it would in fact be a kinder nobler more humble thing to I've got the money to throw a party. Yeah, and I'm going to give that party to people who don't get to go to parties.
• 25:47
  Abigail Boone: That, like even to them that would have been objectively like, yeah, it's
• 25:50
  Charlie Loften: a good thing. How do you say what's the art? Don't want really all you can say is I don't
• 25:56
  Abigail Boone: want to
• 25:57
  Charlie Loften: do that.
• 25:57
  Abigail Boone: Yeah,
• 25:58
  Charlie Loften: when you go when you go to a party and you're invited, you should take a humble posture and sit at the back. Well, I don't want to do that because I ended up in the back. Yeah, like I like is it lawful to heal this guy on the Sabbath?
• 26:09
  Abigail Boone: Want to I don't want to answer that. Yeah, I
• 26:13
  Charlie Loften: don't want to. About will you pull your kid out of a ditch? And like, even if I say well, but that's different. That kind of exposes me again. Like Jesus is kind of just very straightforwardly.
• 26:25
  He starts by kind of turning their legalism on its head. And then really saying you are everything that you do. You're in it for clout. Yeah, you are a clout self driven person and your whole worldview is skewed and was like, but at least you're going to heaven because we follow the law and he's like actually you're not because you have missed the whole point. And you think that what you're doing is important, but you doing the things that you think are important are actually making you miss the bigger picture idea of it is not about you.
• 27:01
  Yeah, and the people who by based on their circumstances have a significantly really humility is their only option. They're the ones that are going to be able to hear.
• 27:14
  Abigail Boone: Yeah.
• 27:16
  Charlie Loften: And again, like I'm such a like, it's hard for me to like, I'm not really a rule follower per se, but I like I look at that and I'm like, is there some way like, I mean, it's like, you know, we you I give money to charity and we give money and we have a food bank and we're trying I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to help people. Yeah, but like truly that. Yeah, I mean, it's something isn't it? Yeah, not everything's about me, but I'm sorry parties at my house are. Again, it's not that I'm expecting the people that we had over the house this weekend are going to invite me to their house at some point.
• 27:52
  Abigail Boone: Yeah. But You have reciprocal relationships.
• 27:56
  Charlie Loften: Right. I'm giving something and I received something. I enjoyed the time. Got something out of it. Like, I'm deeply invested in, like, you said, reciprocal relationships.
• 28:08
  Abigail Boone: And
• 28:10
  Charlie Loften: I can try to talk my way out of that, that amongst people who only pursue reciprocal relationships. I'm a relatively good person. Right? Yeah, I do other things that are more humble, but I'm deeply invested in reciprocal relationships.
• 28:27
  Abigail Boone: Yeah.
• 28:27
  Charlie Loften: Again, I can say, know, I'm a pastor and I do this and I do that. And, you know, it is true that my social life is mostly 95 plus percent me taking the initiative.
• 28:42
  Abigail Boone: Yeah.
• 28:44
  Charlie Loften: But I'm not taking initiative with the people that Jesus is talking about right Right? And so that's what I mean by this. There's not going to be anything to disagree with. There's nothing that's going be hard to understand. I'm just going to walk away from this just a little uncomfortable.
• 29:02
  Abigail Boone: Definitely. I would have, but they don't, they're not even walking away. They're just sitting there at the table. It's really awkward, like dealing with their problems.
• 29:10
  Charlie Loften: And their main application point is I have no, I have nothing to do with this. I have nothing to say to this. Only really option is to get rid of these to get rid of them,
• 29:21
  Abigail Boone: which honestly that is like I feel like you can forget that car maybe not everybody but going through these so slowly one by one that like what he was saying is offensive enough that rather than just like I guess he's right. Wanted to get rid of him.
• 29:40
  Charlie Loften: I offense. Don't know if offensive is the right word.
• 29:42
  Abigail Boone: It's like uncomfortable.
• 29:44
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, it's just in order if I put one foot in his pool. I take one step towards him. Yeah, my whole worldview falls apart. So the best thing to do is to completely completely ignore. Yeah, I got I got to cast him to the side, which we do a marginally better job than that.
• 30:05
  I don't know that we're going to do much of a better job than with this than to just be like, we're not gonna we're not going to kill him. Yeah, we're just going to ignore him. Yeah. But it's definitely going to sit with me for a while. Before I probably get to the place where I'm like, I'm so I'm so I'm to do that.
• 30:23
  Abigail Boone: Like I'm just gonna pretend I didn't hear that
• 30:25
  Charlie Loften: right? But like but but I've it is it's going to stick with me like Are are there are there are there ways even if I can't get all the way to hosting parties for? Strangers are there are there are there more things that I can we can be doing to deeply love and invest in people who have nothing to give back? Again, I'm not want to sit here and just take some false pride. We can almost feel like a prideful humility.
• 30:56
  Mean, I feel like there's a lot of things that our church does to we give a lot of money to people who never give back. We host a lot of events here for people who don't have a place that they can host events and we don't take any money from them. There's things that we're doing as a church. There's some things that we're doing we do as a family that are kind like this, but the level of challenge is like, even if like again, I guess like you grade me us against everybody. I get a good grade.
• 31:28
  Grade me against what he
• 31:30
  Abigail Boone: just said.
• 31:31
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, that's the standard. Not me compared to everybody else, but that's the standard. That's a challenge. Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:41
  I think I like you said these move on talk to a different talk about different Parable.
• 31:44
  Abigail Boone: I'm good with that. One last thing that I would say about weddings though.
• 31:48
  Charlie Loften: Oh,
• 31:48
  Abigail Boone: this is going be maybe a hot take. I have been to a lot of weddings coming from a college town and all of my sorority sisters and everybody else. Also shooting weddings. I do videography and photography. I don't think I've ever had good wedding food.
• 32:05
  It's like, yeah, you had to feed us and you did your best. There's never like a wow. That was a really good. That was a good dinner.
• 32:13
  Charlie Loften: See, I'm just a regular guy that likes regular food. So the first wedding with second the first one is one of those thirty years ago, but the most recent wedding that I've been to where I was like, this is what I'm talking about.
• 32:26
  Abigail Boone: My sister's
• 32:27
  Charlie Loften: sister's wedding.
• 32:28
  Abigail Boone: She's had pizza.
• 32:28
  Charlie Loften: They had a food truck that was making pizza. Yeah, they weren't making a made to order. Were popping them out. We're making these three sorts of pizzas and we're just popping them out. I want like?
• 32:37
  Yeah, pizza.
• 32:39
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, that's what people like. That's what people like. Like if I showed up to a wedding and they just had Eureka pizza, I'd be like that's better than this like catered fancy restaurant. That's actually not good because you catered it instead of getting it at the restaurant. Yeah, it's just always a let down
• 32:56
  Charlie Loften: the more and more the more we talk about this eventually. I'm going to hurt somebody's feelings and so I'll switch from weddings to just banquets in general. We're going to a banquet. It's going be a catered banquet in this ballroom. I'm like, I am not going to enjoy this food.
• 33:13
  A piece It's of chicken, the piece of chicken. Those are extremely long green beans. Yeah, a roll you could kill a man with and and butter that just came from the freezer.
• 33:28
  Abigail Boone: Meanwhile, you're trying to cut it all with plastic utensils. That's not working very well.
• 33:33
  Charlie Loften: I can't get the ice cold butter. I can't do anything with the rock of a roll. And then the choices are water and unsweet tea.
• 33:44
  Abigail Boone: Yeah. So it's like, I'll just eat after
• 33:47
  Charlie Loften: that is. Will if I can find the menu in a banquet beforehand. If I can find it before I'll eat beforehand. Oh, yeah. I'll be great option for you.
• 33:55
  And then I'm that's why I'm fine.
• 33:57
  Abigail Boone: Yeah. It's just always a let down. And then
• 33:59
  Charlie Loften: they start with a salad and how to get two salads. It's great. Anyways, so all that's. No, but for real, I really, I like legitimately all jokes aside, all self deprecating aside, I do feel really challenged by this. Yeah.
• 34:17
  Of just this idea of do I, and I get I like your word. Am I only investing in reciprocal relationships and how can I do a better job of of even just kind of going deeper and like, okay, I'm investing this person? They don't really have anything to get back to me. There are there are people who just legitimately have nothing. And how can we be more mindful of investing in them rather than in reciprocal relationships?
• 34:46
  Abigail Boone: And I think the continual investment like I'm assuming if you're someone that throws parties, you probably throw more than one in your lifetime and being willing to continue to be that type of person that invites whoever and it's not like you did one and then you'll invite your friends to the next one.
• 35:04
  Charlie Loften: And when I hear about people who really do things like that, I mean, they really are the some of the most people I admire the most. Yeah, who just are genuinely deeply deeply investing in the most hurting disenfranchised people in our community.
• 35:19
  Abigail Boone: Yeah,
• 35:19
  Charlie Loften: very admirable. And again, I feel very challenged by by this. So anyways, thank you as always for conversation. Thank you for joining us and we will keep this going that several more parables to do and look forward to continue to sharing that Jesus' wisdom with all of you, and we would love to connect with you, on on Sunday morning. Find our church at thegrovechurch.org.
• 35:43
  Go to get the get connected section. You can there's a form you can fill out. You can find information about our churches on Sunday, both online and in person. You can send us questions, just your thoughts. Thank you so much, for joining us, and we'd love to hear from you, and we'll see you next time.
• 36:03
  Thank you for listening to the Cultivate podcast. Our hope is that you are taking steps to go deeper in your faith, that you're asking big questions, and you're looking for answers. We hope that we can be a resource for you through our podcast and any other way that we can help you. You can find all our episodes anywhere that you can find podcasts, including YouTube. And, again, thank you so much for joining us.