Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 201: Vivien Olatunji - The Grief That Comes With Leaving Sport

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201: Vivien Olatunji - The Grief That Comes With Leaving Sport · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: And for years, obviously, I've been known as Vivian the athlete, and I suddenly had to figure out what I was outside of the track, being the centre of my whole life.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: And there were, you know, as I mentioned before, it is a whole mental game.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that was probably the hardest psychological part trying to reinvent myself to be just a professional working person, not the athlete that I've always been called.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: But therapy did help me a lot.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like without therapy, I don't even know how I would have probably got through that period.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Who are you beyond the game?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ryan Gonçalves.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I became a professional footballer at 16 and eventually had to answer that myself.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is Career Cloud with Athletes from Second Wind Academy, a show about career transition.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Seen through the lens and lives of elite athletes.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: This season I'm sitting down with athletes still competing, athletes years out, and the sports psychologists, coaches and practitioners who guide them.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: We get into the decisions, the identity, and the practical work of building what comes next.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Athletes hit this earlier than most people.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: But what they learn works for anybody.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode, a story, and where it goes from there.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Vivian, welcome to the show.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Great to have you on here today.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I am I think the bit that I'm most excited to talk to you about is is gonna be really your experiences balancing high performance sport and building out a career.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I'm curious as really how you were able to do that and to be honest, achieve so much and now give back so much as well.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm keen to really step into that as we chat for the next 30 to 40 minutes or so.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, thanks for thanks for coming along.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's fine.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm happy to get straight into it.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, awesome.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, so Vivian, just for those listening, just tell us who you are and sort of what you're up to nowadays.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh nowadays I'd probably describe myself as someone who wears a lot of hats.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so professionally I work in FinTech as a customer success manager.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it is a very completely different environment from what I've known to be the track.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but my role is really centered around like relationships, problem solving, and understanding customers, uh, just to help them get value from their products and ultimately just help them succeed.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when I think about it, there are like a lot of similarities between that and being an athlete.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you're still working towards goals, you're still accountable for your performance, you're still dealing with pressures, feedback, but the school board the school board just looks you know completely different, I would say.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I bet it does, very different.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um surely you're not getting timed down to the second on what you're doing nowadays.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, I mean the KPIs are still there.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: So like instead of like asking myself how fast can I run, I'm kind of asking customers, you know, how can I help them succeed?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And alongside that, I am actually a rugby coach for kids, um, which a lot of people don't actually know.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I know it's not used to my splinter side of things, um, but I do really enjoy doing that because it still keeps my connection there and giving back to the sport.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I definitely want to step into.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so you mentioned today you're in fintech and working in customer success.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just help me understand what is customer success and actually and what do you mean by fintech?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so fintech, so that's an abbreviation for financial technology.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I've worked in that industry for I'd say around five to six years.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Previously, I worked in business crime um and cybersecurity.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: So fintech is essentially platforms like think of your big banks like Monzo, Revolute, um companies that lend money to businesses to help them succeed.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, in my side of things, in what I do, uh the product that the customers use, I just make sure that it's functioning well for the business.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I help them with the legal side of things, tracking how the business is doing.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like an integrated data system, um, so we can see all the figures of the business.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so they might come to us and be like, hey, you know, we're having an issue with this product or this side of things with the platform.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Can you help us look into this further?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's essentially working with the investor, the business, and the company that I work for to make sure that we all succeed together.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it all works hand in hand.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um again, that role comes with different hats, but it's very interesting, so I enjoy it.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what do you think you enjoy most about it?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been someone that likes to solve problems.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and maybe that's why I actually went on to study criminology with law at uni.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I've always loved like crime dramas, always read a lot of thrillers.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um I like to hear what the problem is and just make sure the person at the other side of things is happy and yeah, they can get on with what they need to do.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: You literally are then a a problem solver, a crime solver.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you're bringing on your Sherlock hat um or Sherlock Holmes hat as you're stepping into this because e even as we're sort of walking this through, I'm I'm sensing, well, how are you going from criminology studies into customer success or client success in a fintech?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like it's that problem solving and solution mode that that attracted you to it.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I feel like because that's something I've done for a life, like I've always worked with several investors and customers.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: This role kind of pushes everything together.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I've had like a very squiggly career, and I thought, you know what, this role actually is for me.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is something I can enjoy doing for many years to come.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously, the business crime side of things it is quite intense, um, and it can get you know very scary at times, I would say, because obviously there's a lot of things that people may not know that happens in the world, and you have to be the one to try and solve that.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas this is more business related, um, quite nicer people.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's why I kind of transitioned into into this field, and and fintech is a forever-growing industry, so yeah, that's why I have to change.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and listen, uh, I guess uh shout out to uh Helen and Sarah in terms of squiggly careers, but uh let's go back to the start of your squiggle then and let's go back and just talk to me about sport.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, for you growing up, how did sport fit into your life?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, when I just look at myself as an athlete, like you're always focused on your own performance, your times, your training, and what your next competition is.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: So essentially, when you're coaching, your mindset completely changes.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: So you're thinking about someone else's development and their confidence and how you can communicate with them to become better.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where I would say Track and Fits um is a is a project that's very close to my heart.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: So just to kind of give a bit of background around that and into my athlete journey and why that started in the first place.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so Track and Fits is a non-profit organisation.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it was actually founded by my best friend and business partner Maya.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I've known Maya since I was about 10 years old, and she's genuinely like a sister that I've never had, but she's also an ex-professional international athlete.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we both understand that strange period of life where sport, you know, was such a huge part of our identity, and suddenly you're asking yourself, okay, like what's next for us?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it did actually start very organically.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So Maya's actually a UX designer, and she's the creative one between us.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: So she just started taking pictures and creating designs around some of her athlete friends, and because we were constantly having conversations about life after sport, we literally had like a light bulb moment, and we thought, hold on, you know, this could actually be something bigger that we're building here.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: So then that's when we realized we had the real opportunity to help amplify athletes' voices beyond the stadium.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason why we use that key tagline, I mean, every athlete, whether it's you're a sprinter, footballer, rugby player, whatever it may be, everyone is used to that stadium environment.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um and knowing, you know, what do I do outside of that?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, because we do generally tend to celebrate athletes for what they achieve, the medals, the performances, even sometimes the records, we do forget that there's a whole person behind that athlete.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: So some of someone with interest, ambition, skills, and you know, a future beyond them competing or getting loads of medals.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is missed a lot.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So the whole point of creating track and fits, we just wanted to create something that explored who athletes are as people and what they want to do next, whether that's with brands or businesses, so they can learn from them.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so with that, we did actually create our own podcast.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: We've had brand activations, we built relationships with brands and talent.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then the most exciting thing, um, we were actually able to launch our first London event with Red Bull and Popeyes alongside emerging sponsors and talent.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that kind of was a big turning point for the brand.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I must admit, it it looks amazing.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the impact that it's having, well, it is, you know, continues to grow.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it seems like you've really hit a sweet spot with track and fits.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then I suppose I'm interested in your story to make this, you know, why is that relevant to you?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: So with Track and Fits, um, it's like a bigger vision for it to be like a one-stop ecosystem for athletes and brands.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: So just helping athletes navigate life beyond professional sport and also creating opportunities for them.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: So at the moment, we actually are creating something really exciting around LA 2028.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I can't give away too much yet, but essentially it's something that we're creating that we wish existed when we were younger.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it is a lot of hats, but it is one of the biggest lessons that I've taken from leave and sport.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you are, you know, allowed to be more than one thing.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: I hate, you know, when sometimes people kind of put you in this little bubble and they're like, you know, you were once an athlete, what is next?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: What can you do?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you don't have to essentially replace the athlete with one new identity.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like you can build your portfolio and have many different identities and careers that actually reflect all the different things you're passionate about.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that stance so important?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, I agree with you wholeheartedly, which is really the end the essence of, you know, why we're talking about finding this career clarity and the importance of finding those other identities that you have, or recognising one identity of yourself is made up of many.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um so is that something you didn't feel when you were an athlete, or is it something you always felt?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I do have a lot of out moments that I do have in my career that have helped lead up to this point.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: But it's quite important to say that my sporting journey wasn't essentially a straight line.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: So when you look at athletes from the outside, as I mentioned before, you tend to see the medals, the selections, the pitches, and the personal best.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you don't tend to see everything that's happening behind the scenes, you know, that could be like disappointment, setbacks, the coaches you change, and the financial pressures, or even like family situations and friendships that you thought may last forever.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And there's moments where I've questioned, you know, if I'm even going to make it.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: So when I do think of like achievements that's helped me shape who I am today, um, I'd say one of the moments that really stood out for me was when I was recognised on Power of Ten.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: So Power of Ten is a ranking system that's used um across the UK.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so any athlete that's competed in any event, all your results would be on that data pace.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I was progressing towards international selection.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: So let me just rewind it back all the way to like 2014.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's when things really started to move for me.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I was actually awarded a Jack Petchy Achievement Award.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So just for a bit of context, if no one knows.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was gonna say, so 2014, why 2014?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: What were you doing in 2013?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: 2013.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was still figuring out my athletics career.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was working towards really being selected and being put forward to what does that look like?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: What did that look like for you at that time?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, training hard, not being like a normal school kid.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um literally it was training repeat.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: That that was it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I did kind of find it a little bit hard.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, you're just a secondary school child that's meant to just have fun with their friends and you know, achieve all these great things in school to then just follow the normal school route.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: But when you now try and mix an athlete into that period, um it is quite challenging if you don't have the right people around you.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: But luckily enough, um, I scouted to be in the training group that I was in um as they saw, you know, I was quite talented and that I had potential.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I was pretty locked in with a lot of other emerging, very good talent in my area.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of saw that as like an after-school club.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, like how other children would I don't know, go to the chicken shop or go to the shopping malls and like hang around and do that.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I was rushing to go to the track and train because that's how I was kind of raised and drilled to to stick to that routine.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: If I know I want to do well in my studies and I want to do well in my sport.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so with that being said, fast forward to 2014, essentially that award that I was given, um, it recognises young people for their achievements, effort, and contribution.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that meant a lot to me because it wasn't just my performance that was being noticed, but it was also the work that was put in behind the scenes.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just this little girl, you know, just trying to be good at everything because I want to be.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there's a group of people that came together and put me forward for that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: So at the time, um, you know, that that is a very, very big award to get within the UK.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that period, I was actually selected for the England under-20 team, and I was also called up to the GB under-20 four by one relay squad.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I really felt like that was my breakthrough year.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you talk about breakthrough, when you think about where you wanted to go, what did that look like?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: How would you have described your goals, those aspirations at at that point in 2014?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: So in 2014, when you are selected for a team, it's like wow, you know, you get the honour to represent your country, you're quite big and known throughout the country as well.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: As I said, on power of 10, that is accessible to every single person, and then it also gives you the opportunity to be seen in the front of sponsors.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: So again, around that time, I also got a Nike kit drop.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, again, that's massive Nike kit.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: What does that mean?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: So every athlete tends to be assigned to a big sports brand.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, in order to get assigned and sponsored by a sports brand, obviously you need to achieve well, whether it's um personal best or yeah, most of the time it is personal best.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, running very fast essentially is the goal to be able to be sponsored, and not everyone has the opportunity.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, like even till this day, there's some athletes that have maybe even gone to the Olympics or world champs, and they have never been sponsored.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Back when I was younger, we luckily enough, um, one of the girls in my group, she was actually quite a young sponsored athlete.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you were always at my training ground so they could always see you know the people that are performing well.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: So when I remember what so I remember when I got that box and I was like, wow, this is actually happening.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's one of those moments where you've dreamed for it for years, and it's suddenly like, wow, this is actually in reach and distance, and yeah, all it takes is you locking in maybe one season and everything can change for you.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so my training group at the time uh was actually very amazing.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like we had some of the fastest young athletes in the country training together, like the level of talent was absolutely ridiculous.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we were like very competitive and very close.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so given the opportunity that you had there, and you were still 24, you're you're were at what A levels, we're at seven, eighteen, something like that?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: So just before you go to uni.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you're either going to yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: What changed for you?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So once this this came on, I mean, was it enough to start to make you think, hey, you are effectively full-time, you don't need to work, you can just study, or what what was what changed for you?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, so unfortunately, even though that happened, doesn't mean it was enough for me to focus on being an athlete full-time.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I still had to go into another year locking in and seeing, okay, where can I take this?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because just for a bit of clarity, in the UK, you do have a program where you can go into funding, but it's not every single person that is funded to be a British athlete.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're not selected for whatever reason that may be, you have to be the one to kind of figure it out in regards to how you're meant to pay your coaches, your travel, your membership, physio, absolutely everything that comes with being an athlete.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when I look back again, um, I'd say 2015 was another huge chapter.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I represented my club at the European Junior Club Championships in Istanbul.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I won the 100 metres and the full by one there.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that experience was actually pretty surreal for me because again, I had the kit drop, I was getting recognised and proud of 10, but now you're travelling abroad representing your club and you're competing against athletes from different countries and realizing that all those years of training has actually taken me somewhere bigger.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the funniest memories, I would say, um, there was actually a picture of our relay team that was displayed on the wall in that country that we were at, and we were just thinking, hey, like, why is this here?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Are we kind of like the blueprint?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the time we were unstoppable, like no one was beating us, like we were running crazy times for our age group.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and so what what were you when you describe yourself as a runner?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: What was your what was your distances?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, how would you describe yourself then?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'm a sprinter.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I did 60, 100, and 200 and then the four by one relays.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: So those were my only disciplines.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: I never ever went into um uh what's it called, 400.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I did do the 200 sometimes, but I'd say the hundreds were my favourite and four by one relays, yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I know the pain of having to run more than 100 metres and thinking, what's going on?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is long distance.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um so there were times go on, go for it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, sorry, go on.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to get this balance, I'm trying to understand what your athletic career was like and how that transitioned.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have this opportunity, you guys are fast, you're pushing the boundaries, um, being that fastest squad.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what else was happening in your life?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, you know, like you say, it wasn't enough to fully sustain you from a life perspective.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So what else did you have to do?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a very good question, actually.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because that leads me into like the next year of like around 2016 when we're still trying to figure it out how we can make this a full-time thing.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so even with all the club relay records that we're incredibly proud of and the piece of history that we left behind, I was also navigating finding a new coach.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I was trying to rebuild my confidence and get back to the athlete that I knew I could be.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: So around that period, I was actually um struggling with a few injuries and I was trying to find a new group that made sense for me because obviously I was transitioning from being able to go to training every single time with my schedule at the time, and then having to go to uni and have a job and fund this dream that I had.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so way back then I did win a silver medal at the senior South of England Championships, so that was pretty significant for me because I finally felt like you know I was become one of those athletes that people expect to see at the front again after kind of being missing for a little bit with all the repeated injuries that I had.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: But after everything I did experience as a junior, um, there was a lot of challenging sides of athletics which are just as important for my story that you're obviously, you know, asking me about.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: So there were periods where I did constantly feel like I had to prove myself again.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but changing coaches can be very difficult because every coach, which people may or may not know, you know, they have different philosophies, different trainer systems, different ideas of what you need.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: So those were quite major challenges that I had to deal with, including family difficulties and financial pressures at the time.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did you how did you navigate that?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: So there was a point I was working in central London.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I was literally running from the office to catch a train to Crystal Palace so I could make training on time.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: My life was basically work, train, recover, sleep, repeat.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: That never changed.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't really have a normal social life because everything revolved around me, trying to perform and reach this goal.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so at the age of 22, um, if I remember correctly, um, there was actually also like a major breakdown with my relationship with my family.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to leave the family home.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that was actually quite a difficult period for me.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to navigate homelessness, adulthood, independence, work, and family issues all at once.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um But I think after the years of how I've had to be resilient and just carrying so much, I'm just kind of used to getting on with it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've just been kind of drilled to just be like that from such a young age.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: So was well, how important was that family network to you in finding that balance between the work, the study, and the training?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think family is very, very important.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Athletics is pretty much an individual sport once you're on the line by yourself with my event.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing that you've kind of got a team behind you for is relay.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: But again, imagine you've got four individuals coming together with their own story, their own history, their own injuries, their own coaches.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, without that family unit, it was difficult in a sense where you don't have that support system.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of have to rely on friends within your training group.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So training, I would say training groups are very, very key to the growth and development of an athlete.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't like your training group or you don't like your coach, it will be difficult for you.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you do have to be comfortable in your environment to be able to achieve and want the best for yourself because you're always going to be pushing each other to do the absolute best.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's why I said at the time when I was getting recognised, our team, my sorry, my training group was very unstoppable because it was like a a sisterhood and a bit of a brotherhood in terms of everyone that was competing and doing well.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: We were the top 10 athletes at the time in the country, um, with our coach.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: So trying to navigate that from junior to to senior level, um, sometimes you are faced with days where you might have to train by yourself, um, or you know, the coach just doesn't work for you, so now you've got to travel somewhere far to make that work.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And is that what happened to you during your career?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's actually such a long story, but yeah, we can definitely get into that.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um so just for a bit of background for myself.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I am actually British Nigerian, but I was born and raised in South London.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I am the oldest of three and the only daughter.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I have two younger brothers, but my parents were born in Nigeria and they moved here.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, in ways, I do see myself as like a guinea pig.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I feel like you know they were figuring out how to build a new life in a new country whilst I was growing up trying to navigate a world that they probably haven't experienced themselves.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: So from a young age, I felt like I had to set an example and grow up quite quickly.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: So those experiences did help teach me how to be independent, responsible, and just have a bit of resilience.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I do feel like I did spend a lot of my life in survival mode.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so as I said, I'm always thinking about the next thing I needed to solve, and maybe that's why I do the job roles that I do today.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you know, there's a next responsibility that I need to carry out and next goal I need to reach.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And COVID happened.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: So COVID, I would say, was major, like major, major, major.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So COVID didn't just interrupt like competitions, it I would say it disrupted like a whole entire generation of athletes.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many athletes that were in my era that just stopped.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's so many of us, and it's it's quite sad to reflect on and and talk about that today.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so during that period, there were a lot of tracks that were closed, competitions didn't exist, training groups changed, and coaches lost a lot of athletes because there was just no structure.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: We literally just couldn't make it work with all the rules and regulations at the time.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: And there was also like a huge financial element, you know, a lot of people were on furlough or people lost their jobs, no one could afford to do what they needed to do.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: But me specifically, I had like a significant increase in my training fees with my group, and that was very difficult because not everyone's sponsored, as I mentioned earlier, and not everyone has the bank of mum and dad behind them.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that led to a lot of us getting kicked out and having to figure our next step.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I was one of those athletes that unfortunately was kicked out of my group.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so from an in so from an environment, you a team of high performers who are in six days through COVID, I guess this external event shifted at least the cost dynamic, the cost pressures of continuing to to be able to perform, you know, take the hygiene and the world thinking the world is gonna end.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I know in the UK there are certain freedoms that continue.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this takes place, and then suddenly you find yourself what having to now change training group and coach, and I'm guessing location as well.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Correct, yeah.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: So like there's a lot of athletes that have to fund their own dreams, and that's been one thing I've always had to do.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: As I said, I I was lucky enough to get a a kit drop in my junior years, but once you become a senior, that looks so different.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're being asked to train like a professional, recover like a professional, and perform like a professional.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of athletes are working, studying, paying for their own coaching, physio travel, and even competition costs.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Which a lot of outsiders that are not in the sport, you don't think even happens.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you think of football, like everything's kind of done for you, you don't really need to lift a finger or or think about that because you have a big team.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: At certain levels, that that certainly at certain levels that certainly kicks in.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, as this was happening, what else was going on?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: What else were you having to sort of contend with in order to, you know, to know where you had to focus?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm just curious, how did you know what to do?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: The question is, and the answer to that I would say is I didn't really know.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um I had to just try and figure out and coach myself for a period of time.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I did try to to connect with other athletes that were in my area.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, with it being lockdown and tracks being closed, we just found it so difficult.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it does go to get to a point where you're like, you know, how much longer can I do this?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, going to the gym, lifting heavy is also part of the programme.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: So not being able to get that in either because gyms were closed.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: We had to just try and think outside of the box.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Some people had weights in their house, they brought it to the park, and obviously we had to social distance, it was a lot, it was a whole drama.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I do feel like we lost a huge generation of talent during that time, like even to this day, like people ask me, you know, there's athletes that would have continued, developed, and potentially chased, you know, their Olympic dreams if that interruption didn't happen.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: But there are also like points earlier in my life I feel like I could have taken different paths.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: So just going back a bit um to when I was around 16, I was actually being scouted again through my power of 10 performances to go to America to continue my studies and develop my athletics career.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: But at the time, I did unfortunately choose to stay in the UK because I didn't want to leave my friends and my training group at the time.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: As I said, we were high performers, so I thought, you know, I have a great setup here, so why would I change that?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I do sometimes wonder, you know, if my life would have looked a little bit different if I did take that leap of faith.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And at the time, my family, yeah, I I I think about it every single day.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do feel like um there was also a point where my family was meant to move to Canada, um, but my mum always put my education first, and she wanted me to finish my GCSCs before I go to college or sixth form.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: So again, I kind of had two opportunities to be out there.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because what I would say the athletics opportunities in America are a lot more better and streamlined in America, like you have so much to work with.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, here it is very, very limited, and it is kind of like the hunger games in terms of like good sprint coaches and just access to good facilities.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not too sure whether you've been to Crystal Palace before.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously that used to be home of the greats.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like we've had Bolt on the track, you know, competing at the biggest yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the structure of that place has you know, very, very, very bad.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it hasn't been.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it's dated, I suppose.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: The the investment that we see in there is well, I guess it's focused on other areas and you know the other stadia or facilities that I think probably get a a brighter light on it, um, in terms of you know, focus, and that's a gr across the UK, right?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Probably Crystal Palace has suffered as a result of that.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, you talked there about that turning moment for you there at 16, uh these moments here as you know, four or five a few years, several years later, six or seven years later, as COVID kicks in.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: At these points when you you know, you you mentioned before thinking about giving it in, or you know, what happened?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when those moments came through, what types of things went through your mind that you would have to do differently?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues, and unfortunately suicide.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's time for act.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Every year you see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life activity sport.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: This might be up retirement, injury, or they need to juggle dual careers between sport and a job.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: As a former English professional footballer, I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking, strategy, innovation, and now life coach, career practitioner, and founder of the Second Wind Academy.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to help those around me find their career secondwind.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, Second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: When I had to now understand that my life had to go in a completely different direction, obviously I chose not to go to America, I chose to stay here for my studies, so I was now looking for a university that would make sense for me for my sport and for the degree that I wanted to do.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point, thankfully, I met a coach called Lloyd Cowan, um, who sadly passed away during COVID.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was like a father figure to many in the sport.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm not too sure whether you've heard of him before, but he coached some greats like Christina Horrigoo, and he played a huge part in a lot of athletes' careers.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: So when he came into my life, again, obviously that was when I was at university, and I was lucky enough to receive a sports scholarship.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: So he helped me find my spark again.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: He reminded me, you know, my story was still unfolding.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and when you say sports scholarship, so you I know we're moving forwards and backwards here.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the university gave you a sports scholarship, is that right?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is that my understanding correctly?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: So when I decided obviously not to go with the American route, I had to make sure I found somewhere that would kind of like reward me and support me for my athletics journey.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was now trying to reignite again, which I thought kind of fell flat a little bit because obviously all of that was happening, and I was just trying to figure out, you know, what is next for me, um, as I didn't have that coach I thought I would stay with throughout my career.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: How much of an impact was that for you?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it was a very huge impact because the relationship you have with your coach is a very important one.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Essentially, they're seeing you grow from this junior athlete to a senior athlete trying to compete on the world stage.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not locked in with your coach and you don't have that great team behind you, it is very, very difficult to overcome all those challenges.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'd say sprinting is is a mental game, and if you're battling things outside of just being on the track and training and you don't have anyone you can talk to, it is very hard to be able to perform.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and so you mentioned, I mean, interestingly about sprinting being a mental game.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I think I I suppose I'm I'm hearing a this differentiation between yeah, there's a a natural talent or speed that will get you so far, and then the psychology of it starts to kick in.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah, so you can show up and and do that.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm interested then you you know you mentioned your coach helping you deal with that.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the so what you're describing here is a coach for you was a figure that was not just about the technical ability of getting faster and sustaining that speed and moving, but also supporting you in some capacity off the track as well.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: So when I now look back and see how Lloyd uh helped me during that time, he used to send me, you know, like voice notes, training programs, and we'd be like, you know, you've got this girl, like your story is still unfolding, uh, you don't need to give up now.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: And he was just looking through all the periods of my life where you know I could have achieved this and and what is next for me.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I said he was like a father figure at that time to a lot of athletes.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, medals are one thing and selections are another thing, but it's more like the resilience of being able to see, okay, this is my biggest achievement in the sport so far.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: How can I take it to the next level?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why it's really important to have the right people around you, otherwise, there are points where you'll be like, you know what, I can't be bothered to do this today.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be able to show up for yourself every single day to even be able to train because you're around people with the same goals, the same facilities as you.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, no one's different, you're only different in the sense of your mentality and your physical ability.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: But even with years of training, someone that you didn't think was that good can work themselves up to be just as good as you are.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's literally just just trying to to lock in and and stay true to yourself um no matter what challenge you're you're faced with.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: So coming to you then, so you you talked about university.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: What were you studying and what made you what was your decision-making process to pick that subject?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um so from a young age, I used to go to the library a lot.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I'd select like eight books at once, and a lot of them were crime thrillers, again, solving a case.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just found that interesting and I didn't really like anything else.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: So with my background um with a lot of African families, I would say, they always want their children to become lawyers or doctors.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: That is all I've ever heard in my life.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: So trying to add a sport to that, I was like, okay, how can I make this work?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought, okay, cool, I like reading, I like watching these things.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I combined criminology with law, and obviously, I knew my university at the time had a sport scholarship, so I was like, okay, this can definitely work for me hand in hand.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: And if my athletic's career doesn't work out, then I could become a criminal lawyer, criminal lawyer.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I saw my life.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I've always had that working career aspirations, as well as being a professional athlete, which isn't quite common in athletes, I would say.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's a lot of athletes that I know today that have never worked a day in their life, like they've never had to go to university, never had to wake up and go to work.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like they've just lived and breathed athletics.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so for you during your athletic career, were you constantly working uh on top of studying?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what what was that like for you?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so in my junior years, I worked part-time, but I actually worked part-time at Nike.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I was still working with the brand that I loved, but it was only to fund so I can pay for my my membership and to travel and my physio.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that was very important to me.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: So at a very early age, I wasn't getting any money from my parents to be able to do that because obviously I have two other younger brothers who also had aspirations.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: So at a point I had to just think quick like what can I do to be able to fund this dream that I've got.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so obviously at the time I only worked part-time, and then when I now went to uni, I was working very hard to be able to make sure that I get a placement so I can go straight into the working world, which at the time was incredibly difficult.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, before we had COVID and we work from home facilities, you had to be in the office five times a week.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to negotiate with my managers at the time, you know, this is who I am.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm an athlete, you know, my goal is to get to the Olympics, world champs, etc.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Can you work with me on my training days where I can maybe finish at like 5 p.m.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: if I start the working day a bit earlier?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: And as soon as it hits 5 pm, I'd literally rush out the office, rush to the train station to get to the track.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was a whole very tight-knit schedule.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I could not break that schedule.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: And with that happening, you know, that did affect a lot of my friendships.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you know, they don't have the same dreams as you, they don't really understand why you can't just spare five minutes to come to someone's dinner, birthday, whatever it may be.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was a whole you know, fine-tuning thing that had to just make sense for me.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, it was extremely difficult, and a lot of athletes I would say go through that today.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when did you realize it's done?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to finish up.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that answers actually quite complicated because you know, as an athlete, you don't really want to accept that your career is temporary.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're around 13, I would say uh when I started to have those dreams, and you're known as the athlete, you don't really think about what happens when you're 23, 25, or 30 because the sport is your whole identity.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, friends, family, teachers, even yourself, you know yourself as the athlete.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: But no one thinks that there's a specific day where, you know, I'm going to retire today.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and that wasn't the case for me.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned, COVID was a massive one, and the pandemic completely disrupted all of that, you know, the financial realities I was facing, the fact that I had to coach myself, the fact that the coach that reignited that fire in me, he passed away.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a huge turning point for me.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: There was a lot of stuff that I had to grieve back in 2021.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at the time I believed that, you know, I can get through this, lockdown won't be there for long, it's going to work.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: But it was literally months of grieving and just really, you know, allowing myself to really take it all in and say, you know what, I don't think this can work anymore.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there weren't many people at the time that you could turn to and go to to try and see if you know we can make it work on the other end.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say around summer 2021 is when I quietly kind of hung up my spikes.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't do any big announcement, I didn't do a retirement post.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: I literally just stopped.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to just sit with everything.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: I had to, you know, mourn the sport, mourn Lloyd, the family situation, my friendships changed, and even the future that I thought I was going to have.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it was just like a lot of grief happening at once.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that is a lot of things that we don't talk about enough when athletes retire.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're not just retiring from the sport, you're literally grieving, you know, an entire version of your life routine, people you've trained with, the adrenaline you had from competition, the goals you had.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, sometimes when you're grieving a person, you thought you were going to become it's just very, very difficult because you know you had Olympic dreams, you had athletes from that generation that thought they were going to make that.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there's just an element of accepting that, you know, my story just isn't going to end the way I imagined it would.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you you just have to just sit down and and resonate with that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And who did you get to share those thoughts with at the time?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that would have been my best friend Maya.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's why Tracker Fits was created because we had several tracks like that.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's it's just this strange thing where everyone around you is still calling you an athlete, but you're thinking, well, I'm not competing anymore, so who am I now?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's the next step for me?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: And for years, obviously, I've been known as Vivian the athlete, and I suddenly had to figure out what I was outside of the track, being the centre of my whole life.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then you know, as I mentioned before, it is a whole mental game, and that was probably the hardest psychological part trying to reinvent myself to be just a professional working person, not the athlete that I've always been called.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: But therapy did help me a lot.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like if without therapy, I don't even know how I would have probably got through that period.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, so really, so when you say therapy helped you, explain that.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Help me understand what is it that you think you needed to to do, or what is it that you wanted therapy to enable you to do?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um I needed it to help me understand that I didn't need to erase that whole side of me.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um it helped me to also understand, you know, like it's okay to grieve, acknowledge the things that I've lost, and move forward.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: So eventually I realized that you know I didn't actually lose my identity, I just had to find a way to expand on that.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say this is the part where you're kind of transitioning outside of you know, Vivian the athlete to Vivian.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Who wears many hats now.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the part that I would say, you know, wasn't perfect, but it was fun trying to find myself again.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: But there was a moment where, you know, when I retired, and I like the sorry, there wasn't a moment that when I retired, I suddenly knew what I wanted to do for the next 10 years.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I never had a life plan.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: My life plan was always, okay, yeah, you're going to be professional working in business crime, cybersecurity, but you still have Olympic goals.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's your main focus.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I never ever thought if I now don't have that athletic side, I'm just going to be a full-time nine-to-fiver working in cybersecurity or business crime.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: I never ever planned it out like that.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there was a lot of uncertainty and there was a lot of questions around me figuring out what I had to do next.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so tell me practically, what did you do?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, I understand that that you were having therapy and what that enabled you to recognise about yourself.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a loss of an identity in some respects.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: It you it was an expansion or understanding how to expand your identity.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: How did you do that?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I just decided to focus seriously on my professional career.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as I said, I've always worked in the corporate world, I've always worked in business crime and cybersecurity before moving into FinTech.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I realised I wasn't starting from zero.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe as athletes, sometimes you think, you know, I've only ever done a sport, what skills do I actually have?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that's actually all wrong.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sport actually teaches you more than people think and know.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, as I mentioned at the very start of this um conversation that we're having, you're used to targets, you're used to KPIs, and you're used to that feedback, you know, so that's that's no different to the working world.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're also used to a lot of pressures and taking accountability and even failure.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, an athlete, it's not every single time you compete, you're going to get a PB or you're going to be selected.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you literally you're learning to bounce back from all those failures that you're having.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have time to think about it and soul can drag it out to the next month.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: You literally have to get up and go the next working day.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: So essentially, that is the same thing that I saw in the corporate world.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: So even though when I had days when I didn't feel like I can show up and be myself, I mean the athlete, I knew okay, if I want to become quite big in my career and um help other people who are also transitioning out of the sport, I also need to to be able to to lock in and and teach people how to take their CV from the track and build that into their working career.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you just have to kind of learn how to translate it as professional skills.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna have people, we're gonna have athletes listening to this and indeed others who have been in a single career for most of their life.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: How you know, what are the steps?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: How do you go about translating that track experience onto a C V that the traditional workforce would understand?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: So when we speak about transitioning, obviously it's not just about changing your job, it is essentially about rebuilding a whole life.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: So the very first part is identity, which was a huge lesson for me at the part at that part, sorry.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just having those solid people in your corner.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: You need to know people that know you for you, if that makes sense, not just people who know Vivian as the athlete or Vivian the businesswoman or Vivian the coach, just people who know me.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I am very grateful that at this stage of life I understand what that looks like and I understand who needs to be in my corner.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's relationships that do need nurturing, and there's there's relationships that you need to set boundaries for.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I understand that having a strong support system isn't a weakness, it is actually one of the biggest strengths that you can have.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say, like, one of the first pieces of advice athletes transitioning from elite sport, I would say don't wait until you're retired to start thinking about life outside sport.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is one of the worst things you could do.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's kind of like better to explore things while you're competing.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that could be like taking a course, speaking to people, getting work experience, volunteering, uh, learning about different industries, building your professional network.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, another thing I would say, maybe find a mental or just even talking to ex-athletes.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't need to take your eye off your goals.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're just building, I would say, like another muscle alongside your athletic one.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: So don't underestimate what sport has given you.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's a lot you can put on that.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: So even though your CV might say, Hey, I'm a hundred-meter sprinter, but that's not your whole story.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know how to set goals, you know how to deal with pressure, you know how to take the criticism, you know how to manage disappointment.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: Even working with different personalities, like there's a lot of people in your group which you have to learn to manage and just get on with.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's even like committing to something, even though an outcome isn't guaranteed.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned, you could be training for a whole year, you've gone through winter training, summer training, and you have not achieved your PB or being selected for one of the big competitions.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, sport is like that, but you just know how to sacrifice and be disciplined.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, even like you know, showing up when you're tired, injured, disappointed, or nervous, those are one of the most incredible professional skills I would say people always look for.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like every time I've ever had to do an interview, and I say, Oh, um, hey, like I'm I'm a ex-athlete, and they're like, Wow, like I want to know more because they know that we're very resilient, we're very determined, motivated.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of very rare to just an ordinary person that's applying for a job.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: So we tend to be one of the top hires, I would say, um, once transitioning out of that.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well said, Vivian.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Fully agree.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are there's definitely a lot that being an athlete can help us in the traditional workforce, and you've listed through a number of those key competencies and and you know and traits that I also learned, so you know, not necessarily just natural, but these are things that I learned.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: How to show up on time, you know, being one of those.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: So when you look now at your professional career, and I I you know, I sort of want to wrap up really understanding for you, it sounds like you know, you studied a criminology a legal perspective, but in terms of the actual work that you've done, you've shifted from that initially in cybersecurity and now uh another, I'll say another skip towards uh in in fintech around custom success.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: So after your athletic career or professional athletic career, even now it I get a sense you're still exploring, you know, five, six years on, um you you continue to explore where you fit in that traditional workforce as well.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like as I said, it's okay to wear many hats.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like you don't have to have one identity.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when I was doing when I was training and competing, sorry, that's what I thought I had to to do and and be known as.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: So me even balancing working professionally and being an athlete, the athlete would always take the foot forward and be like, hey, I don't really talk about my professional life because no one really cares about that.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: And why am I doing it?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: People would be like, Why are you here?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you not at the Olympics?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, just funny, silly comments like that because they don't know the work that that goes on to even get to that stage.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: And as I said, I I love working with people, solving problems and with athletes because we always have a next goal that we're working towards.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes in the working world, corporate world, I would say that I work in now, you might feel like you're a bit stagnant if you've achieved all you can achieve.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you're always looking for that next challenge, trying to learn something new, and maybe that is why I have had such a squiggly career because I'm like, okay, I've done business crime for X amount of years, I like cybersecurity, but it's not really allowing me to show my passion or help people how I want to help them.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: So then maybe that is why I moved into FinTech and customer success, and maybe that is even why even quotes today.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I like to keep myself busy, learn new skills, meet new people.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: I can't say there hasn't been a week where I haven't met someone new or learnt something new.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: I I I love the learning element of that and someone teaching me something that I've maybe not thought about before.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like athletes do need to make use of that.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's okay to process your experiences, go through therapy, grieve, and also to acknowledge, you know, sometimes you might have been hurt from things and not allowed the sport to divide to to define your forever sorry.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: But it's okay to say, you know, it happened, it shaped me, but it doesn't have to define me.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I want a lot of athletes that are listening to this to know that you know it's not the end of your life.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's one of the best parts to celebrate, but it's just a chapter and it's probably chapter one, you know, it doesn't have to be the whole book.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I would say.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely brilliant.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: And but for you then, you're in this yeah, obviously this this is you know second wind, you've moved into your second wind in life, but I feel there's another chapter that's coming.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when you look ahead for yourself, you got track and fit, you got the sort of professional work in the the fintech space, you've also got the coaching aspect that continues.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: When you look ahead for you, what's that next dream?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's that next thing or goal that you've got on your list?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the next goal is I would say track and fits is at the forefront of majority of things as of right now.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got the LA 2028 coming up, so we are working on a very big project um that we're trying to bring out there and for athletes that we've never seen before.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say that is a lot of my day-to-day right now alongside my 9 to 5.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say I don't really, I know everyone says working at 9 to 5, but I literally work round the clock because my business partner is based in LA and they're nine hours behind us.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um so there is a lot of late night sometimes when I am working, but it is all part of the dream of what we're really excited about.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're working a lot of big things, and the next few years are really exciting for us.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, as I said, you know, it's always an opportunity to create and support the community.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can do that, whether it's in my professional work in life, my coaching, you know, the young kids to be someone in the future, then I feel like I I've nailed what I've always said I've always wanted to do when I was younger.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a never-ending um cycle for me.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it continues to build.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, Vivian, I just gotta say thank you very much for joining me today and bringing your perspective in I guess life through sport, life after sport, and also a great way to to give back or at least promote good and healthy activities in and around the game.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got to say thanks a lot.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are gonna be people who listening to this are going to want to reach out, uh follow your journey.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best way to do that?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, yeah.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you can catch us on Instagram or TikTok.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's literally track and fits.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's the best place to follow everything that we're doing.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: We're constantly working on projects, athlete stories, and events.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or you can reach out to us by email.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you can reach us on hello at trackandfits.com or email me directly, vivian at trackandfits.com.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, the story that I've shared today isn't a substory, it's just a very honest one.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of what I've experienced is the person that I am today, you know, it's shaped a big part of why track and fits matters to me so much.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want athletes to feel seen, you know, as a whole.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: They're not just performers, they are people at the end of the day.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if there's anyone that ever wants to reach out and just find, you know, what's their why, what's next for them, we'll be more than happy to chat with you and help you on that journey.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Vivian, thanks very much for your time today.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Ryan.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to this week's episode.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: Reshaping a career is a team sport.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do it alone.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you want help working out your next step, it's all at secondwindadvisory.com forward slash academy.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Book a conversation with me there, and the link is also in the show notes.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a couple more things.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Send this episode to the person you thought of while you were listening.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's how this show reaches the people who need it.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ryan Gonçalves, take it easy, and I'll see you next time.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, before I do go, I want to drop a short thanks to Claire at BettyBook Design, Nancy at Sabby Podcast Solutions, and Therese at copying content by loader.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: Without them, this show would never have got together.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.